What Should The Cubs Do About Rainouts?
by Al Yellon on Apr 28, 2011 7:30 AM CDT
in Chicago Cubs News
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PrintWednesday's postponed game was the second such event already in 2011; the Cubs had no postponements at all in 2010 (and, to my memory, only a couple of rain delays). Last year was very lucky weather-wise; this year, so far, not so much.
The Cubs announced that there would be "no refunds or exchanges" for tickets for Wednesday's rainout; you either use 'em for the makeup game on June 27 at 1:20, or lose 'em.
For the last 20 or so years, the Cubs have had an informal policy of refunding rainout tickets. This wasn't well publicized, but they did so, and also allowed people to use the value of a ticket for a future game if they didn't want a refund. As far as I know, no team has a current policy allowing refunds; some of them give exchanges.
The problem for current management, then, is: Cubs fans have become accustomed to refunds and/or a fairly generous exchange policy. To suddenly be faced with a "no refunds or exchanges" policy, in a year when new ownership is already perceived as "cheap", and the team isn't doing well, is, in my opinion, not very fan-friendly. With ticket prices as high as they are in general in sports, and with an economic recession going on, I'd think teams would want to be more sensitive to fans who have, in some cases, shelled out hundreds of dollars for baseball tickets.
After the jump, a list of all the rainout policies from team websites, and a suggestion for Cubs management.
Six teams: the Blue Jays, Rays, Mariners, Brewers, Astros and Diamondbacks, who have roofed stadiums of various types, obviously have no rainout policies needed. (That number becomes seven next year, as noted below.)
The following nine teams have no specific policy listed or have a policy that depends on the situation: Orioles, Twins, Indians, Angels, Athletics, Phillies, Reds, Giants and Padres. Clearly, some of those teams (the West Coast clubs) have little need for such a policy; the Padres, for example, have been rained out only once in their history (and had that bizarre three-rain-delay suspended game a couple of weeks ago).
Here are the policies for the other 14 teams (all except the Cubs):
Red Sox: no refund/exchange if game is rescheduled using original tickets as valid (similar to Cubs announced policy for Wednesday's game)
Yankees: can exchange for same price ticket within 12 months
White Sox: no refund/exchange if game is rescheduled using original tickets; otherwise you can exchange for same or lesser value
Tigers: if the game is rescheduled for same homestand, can be used for any future game within 12 months. Otherwise the ticket must be used for the rescheduled game unless it's a straight DH
Royals: the same ticket is used for a rescheduled game, unless it's rescheduled as part of a straight DH, then check website for policy
Rangers: can exchange for any game for the existing season, dollar for dollar, subject to availability
Mets: can exchange for any game within 12 months for a ticket "comparable in price"
Nationals: ticket can be used for rescheduled game OR exchanged for the same priced ticket for the rest of the season
Marlins: can exchange for any remaining regular season game; if rainout is after 9/1, ticket can also be exchanged for tickets the following April. Also, for any game rain delayed more than 90 minutes, you can exchange your ticket for any Mon-Thurs game the remainder of the season. This was the 2010 policy; after this year the Marlins are moving into a retractable roof stadium, so they won't need a rainout policy
Braves: can exchange for tickets of same price for any remaining regular season game
Cardinals: no specific policy listed, although the Cardinals had a rainout earlier this year where they played a split DH the next day. They allowed anyone with a ticket for that game -- whether they used it or not -- to get a free ticket to any Mon-Thurs game the rest of 2011
Pirates: two rainouts already this year; ticket holders for both games are offered exchange for any Sun-Thurs game in 2011 (except 6/5 vs Phillies and 6/26 vs Red Sox)
Rockies: original ticket used for rescheduled game if part of a split DH. If the game is rescheduled as part of a straight DH, ticket can be exchanged on a value-for-value basis for any game in the current season
Dodgers: if rescheduled on open date or as part of split DH, the ticket is only good for that game. If rescheduled as a straight DH or cancelled entirely, ticket good for equal or lesser value for a "future regular season game", no year specified.
It would seem to me that, given the Cubs' long history -- more than 20 years -- of offering exchanges for future games, that would be a fair thing to do for people who simply cannot rearrange their schedules to attend a postponed game that's going to be made up months later. The Cubs tell us their own surveys show that a substantial portion of the fanbase travels to Wrigley Field from out of state, that it's become a tourist destination. The widespread scattering of posters at this website is proof that Cubs fans are all over the USA, indeed, all over the world.
It simply may not be possible for someone who's traveled in Chicago specifically to go to this game, perhaps from some distance, to come back on June 27 to go to the makeup game. For those people, an even-dollar exchange for tickets within 12 months would be fair (obviously, subject to ticket availability).
Personally, I have no skin in this game. I use all my tickets and I'll be there on June 27 (when, hopefully, it will be sunny and 85 degrees). But not everyone can do that. If the Cubs want to be a fan-friendly organization, they should offer something to people who wanted very much to see a baseball game on Wednesday, couldn't because of the weather, and can't return two months in the future.
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Who'll stop the rain? - Creedence Clearwater Revival
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
hehehe
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
Have a law passed that rain is not allowed between 1:00 PM and 11:00 PM on gamedays... ;-)
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
That would be like living in
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
I'm surprised they didn't wait
because around 2:30 or so it had stopped raining and I don’t believe it started back up until 6 or so.
If it was easy it wouldn't be the Cubs.
by Cubbinstrongsince86 on Apr 28, 2011 8:00 AM CDT reply actions
Weather.com
I was also surprised. The hourly weather.com forecast for yesterday had a 10% chance of rain all afternoon, until 6:00 when it jumped to 60% chance.
Baseball is the only major sport that appears backwards in a mirror. ~George Carlin
yeah but they can sell more crap later in the season when it's warmer
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
This is typical of the new ownership
They are NOT fan friendly. If they were true fans as they claimed they would not be screwing fans like they are.
Are they that stupid to not see what is going on around them?
The team sucks and the ownership group is not liked by fans.
You would think they would try to do something about this.
Do they not see the empty seats?
Do they not see the fans irritation with the whole organization?
The Ricketts family are NOT real fans….They are the rich guys in ties that sit in the good seats that really do not know the players or what’s going on that you see at the games.
Its a shame. Bud and Jerry got what they wanted……Owners for the Cubs that do not care about anything but making money, yet do not understand how to do it.
by TJ11 on Apr 28, 2011 8:09 AM CDT reply actions 6 recs
Sad but true TJ
Cheap…clueless…but, hey, at least Tommy gets to hang with Vince Vaughn at Blackhawks games.
by bluekoolaide on Apr 28, 2011 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions
TJ, I gotta ask
You seem to hate everything about this team. You hate the ownership, you hate the front office, you hate the coaches, you hate the players. What exactly do you like about the Cubs? The colors? The stadium? I’m genuinely curious.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Apr 28, 2011 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions 10 recs
It seems pretty simple.
If one is a Cub fan, one wants them to win games.
Doing so consistently will require better players, and better decision-making in the future w/r/t player acquisition and development.
It seems inconsistent to adopt a “my team, right or wrong” attitude and reflexively defend every completely obvious mistake they have made over the last 4 years. To defend incompetence will result in fewer wins for the Cubs, and more unhappiness for me.
The Cubs are bigger than their players. They’re bigger than their current front office. They’re even bigger than their ownership group. There is almost nothing in common between my great-grandfather’s Cubs and today’s Cubs – other than that intangible string that runs throughout history, connecting today’s teams to yesterday’s. It’s not just Wrigley. It’s Chicago.
The Cubs will exist when these players are all retired. The Cubs will continue to exist after Hendry, and Hendry’s successor, and that guy’s successor, have all moved on. They’ll exist after the Ricketts eventually sell and move on.
And Cubs fans will continue to hope for wins – because we aren’t fans of Hendry, or these particular 25 guys, or Tom Ricketts. We’re fans of the CUBS.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Apr 28, 2011 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
....
To defend incompetence will result in fewer wins for the Cubs, and more unhappiness for me.
It’s funny you speak as if support or lack thereof for Rickett’s on this board will determine, in any way shape or form, the number of wins for the Cubs.
As fans continue not to show up and less stuff is bought, the less money the Cubs will have to spend....Its not a huge deal with all the ad money but it is something....
And what big free agent whats to come to teeam that is considered cheap with a shrinking fan base?
Here's a better way to put it.
The question posed is, “why would you be a Cub fan if you don’t support ownership/players/Hendry”? I am not saying that my stance, acting alone, will directly perpetuate, or end, the Cubs’ incompetence. Obviously, if people refuse en masse, it would have an effect.
Here’s a replacement paragraph:
The incompetence displayed by Hendry and Ricketts have, and will, result in fewer wins for the Cubs, and more unhappiness for me. As a Cub fan, I am not obligated to defend the Cubs’ poor decision-making – and in fact, to do so would be logically inconsistent.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Apr 28, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
This is great stuff...
nails my sentiments as a season ticket holder. I could not have articulated this in the way you have – but the summary is spot on.
I was hoping (as was Al, and many here) that the Ricketts would take losing personally, and just not tolerate it. The MO, it seems to this point, is that profits come 1st, 2nd, 3rd – and 4th comes talent/GM’s staff quality.
Bravo!!!
To give an analogy, I have been a huge Blackhawks fan my entire life and they are my favorite Chicago team, with the Cubs being 2nd. When old man Wirtz was running the show, I still loved the Hawks, but I simply couldn’t bear to not acknowledge the guy was running the franchise into the ground with his stubborn decision making. Since Rocky took over, it is proof positive what can happen (fairly quickly) when you bring the right leadership on board, who in turn recognizes one important piece; we need to bring in the best brain trust possible to make sure our on ice product is as good as it can be. They did that and have had great success and have built something, that will likely be a legit contender for a championship for many years to come and that should be the ultimate goal of any professional franchise.
With the Cubs and Ricketts, they have not bothered to take this same route, instead maintaining a status quo of poor use of resources, horrible decision making and a baseball organization that has had a “knee jerk” philosophy ever since Hendry has been at the helm. There is no question in my mind, that Ricketts is clueless and he and his family are going to pay a heavy price for it, but it will pale in comparision to the price that will be payed by loyal Cub fans.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I love my Cubs...A huge fan, know a great deal about the team and its history.
I looked forward to a new owner who was going to change things. He said he was a fan who understood what it meant to be a Cub fan. This was crap.
I am sick of laziness
I am sick of watching minor league baseball played in the ML
I am sick of having managers who do not know what is going on or are asleep
I am sick of having a GM who is taken advantage of
I am now sick of an owner who cares more about buildings and toilets than the team
I am sick of not hitting in the clutch
I am sick of not hitting with RISP
I am sick of starters not going 5 innings
I am sick of watching Mateo pitch instead of Wood
And on and on and on….
I thought a new owner, supposedly a big Cub fan, would be sick of these things as well. I was wrong. People wondered what would get me to lose the Character TJ….Well they finally did it.
Its a disease we all have. Being a Cub fan, Its a lifelong sickness. But that does not mean we have to sit back like sheep and accept all of the their crap.
by TJ11 on Apr 28, 2011 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
We are of like mind TJ
In my nearly 40 years of living and dying with the Cubs I’ve seen more than my share of bad teams but I honestly don’t think I’ve ever been as disgusted and pessimistic as I am right now. Like most of us, I was excited by the prospects of new ownership that supposedly “got it”. Although I knew next to nothing about Ricketts going in, I was willing to listen to others who seemed very pumped about the possibilities.
Boy, was I wrong.
To keep the statis quo in place…to not replace a corporate suit like Crane Kenney with an actual BASEBALL man, immediately spoke volumes to me about where the priorities of this “true fan” lay.
At least I have the Blackhawks for eight months of the year-Rocky Wirtz is a perfect example of how to run a successful, fan friendly franchise. I wish Tom would spend a little less time posing for teh cameras and a little more time studying Rocky’s example. Unfortunately, based on what I’v eseen so far, I don’t think he has the slightest bit of interest in that.
by bluekoolaide on Apr 28, 2011 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
OT....
being one of those Hawks fans that jumped on the bandwagon last year I’m not familiar with when Rocky Wirtz took over….Do you remember what was the first thing he did to make you think the Hawks organization was really going to turn around? serious question
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I saw a Hawks game on TV!
Honestly, I was just so happy I could see my team play again, as dumb as it sounds.
That was the first move and very important.
Most Blackhawks fans (and other sports fans) looked at the no-home-game-TV policy as stuck in the 1950s.
As soon as that was lifted, many fans saw it as a breath of fresh air, not to mention actually being able to see the team play.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
can we make the same argument about the cubs on WGN?
living in Nashville, i get to see (maybe) every other game, and it feels like each year they move further and further away from WGN…wouldnt the cubs get more money having the nation watch WGN than having the game on CSN which is localized?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
that's a fight for another time...
do they honestly get more money on CSN than they do on WGN?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Yes.
Because they own 25% of CSN.
You can, as you know, buy MLB Extra Innings and get most of the rest of the games.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
ahhh...
there’s the rub.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
I have always stated here...
… that you should be able to watch any game you want as long as you are willing to pay for it, regardless of location.
Unfortunately, the days of being able to watch 140 Cubs games just for the price of an expanded basic cable subscription are over.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
i've honestly never looked into the TV package,
but with MLB.TV at almost two hundred bucks i’ll make due with WGN games, Cincinnati and atlanta games.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
You can get MLB.TV for $99
and a Roku box for $60 and watch any game any time on your TV. Roku even let’s you rewind, and start games from the beginning. Honestly, compared to the NFL the MLB offering is cheap.
I think he meant MLB Extra Innings on cable and Direct TV.
Internet only MLB.TV is only about $100 a year, plus $15 to watch in an iPad. It looks gorgeous if you have a good internet connection.
by Fraggin Judge on Apr 28, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
They may...
…but the revenue potential will be limited as long as the organization is as weak as it currently is. The Yankees make a boatload of money on their network, but that wouldn’t be the case if their on field performance was like the Cubs.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I agree with you on this.
WGN was always a savior for my Cubs viewing. Even when I lived in IL, we got Iowa or WI stations where I lived so they’d rarely carry cubs but I could always count on WGN. In college, and now living in MN, I’ve always had WGN. But it seems to be getting fewer and fewer or they’re on at times I’m not home.
Again...
in the old days WGN was an independent station. It is now a CW (and before that, The WB) network affiliate. It has obligations to run the programming.
Therefore, especially right now when first-run shows are on — not many games on WGN Local/WGN America.
And if a game is NOT on WGN Local it cannot be on WGN America. The WCIU games are WGN games farmed out to a ‘subcontract’ channel. WGN still gets revenue for those games.
The times have changed.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Apr 28, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
WGN made me a Cubs fan even though Chicago was far away.
by Fraggin Judge on Apr 28, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
You're not the only one here who had that happen, either.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Putting the Hawks' home games on tv was a HUGE signal...
…to a very frustrated fan base that there was going to be a new way of thinking on the west side.
Second, and even more important imo, was hiring John McDonough to head the entire operation. McD, with Rocky’s imprimatur, immediately began making sweeping changes in the front office, etc.
McD had a plan and an absolute commitment to winning a Stanley Cup. Within three years the dream had become a reality.
by bluekoolaide on Apr 28, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't know much about these things
but I tend to believe this should be the template for Ricketts and the Cubs
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Rocky also grew up in the Blackhawks front office...
He had a very good idea of what he liked and didn’t.
I know it was more symbolic than anything -
But Rocky’s decision to move into his grandfather’s corner office, which had sat vacant since the old man passed, was also evidence that the team was going to be doing things a new way.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
wow cool story...I'd love to read a book based on those 3 years...The Road To The Stanley Cup!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Coolio-if you're interested
In Fall of 2008 Chicago Magazine had a great, very detailed story of the behind-the-scenes machinations that went into Rocky taking over the Hawks, hiring McD, etc.
I’m sure you can find it online if you look. It’s REALLY entertaining and interesting.
by bluekoolaide on Apr 28, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
hey thanks...I'll look it up when I get back from work.
…have a great day, Go Cubs!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
I bet that's it, thanks for finding it
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I think McDonough is overrated.
McDonough rolled the dice on the Soriano contract, approved adding multiple years to it, then, when that didn’t pay the immediate dividends he had hoped for, jumped ship to ride along with the nucleus of a young team Dale Tallon had already put together. Tallon screwed things up too (free agent paperwork being the most pronounced) but McD shouldn’t get a ton of credit for the cup itself.
He brought his team convention idea with him and has been good at parading old Hawks out. I’m sure the front office runs more efficiently but that would have happened under almost anyone once the old man died.
That's way over-simplifying things at best
At worst, completely disingenuous.
when that didn’t pay the immediate dividends he had hoped for, jumped ship to ride along
He grew up in the Cubs organization, spending something like 25 years there. I doubt he wanted to leave, but he was concerned about long-term job security.
And while Zell may not have been the best steward, the payroll finally increased under McDonough – and the TribCo sale to Zell wasn’t completed until he’d already been Cub president.
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 28, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
McDonough didn't want to leave the Cubs
but the Blackhawks made him an offer he couldn’t refuse.
I think his role with them, as well as Blunk’s, has more to do with marketing than with player decisions.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 28, 2011 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
His role does affect player decisions, though -
Because he hires the GM
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 28, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
True
I guess more indirectly than directly.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 28, 2011 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I am not aware McDonough had anything to do with contracts
He was head of marketing.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
He pushed years and dollars onto Soriano's contract
As has been discussed here a bit.
News to me
I can’t imagine why he would influence a contract
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
She doesn't have much of an imagination...
unless it’s about tickets.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 28, 2011 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Or Fuld.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 28, 2011 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I loath Crain Kenney
but I don’t get the impression he has much to do with contracts either. I am not blaming him for signing Pena even if he is the president. I see from googling that McDonough was the one who supposedly told Hendry to go out an get some name(s) to draw fans.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Again...
…this was likely the direction given to him by ownership (Tribune company). They knew they were selling and decided lets make a splash, go out and sign big name guys and backload the hell out of the contracts so we are out from under by the time we dump this thing. If the Trib wasn’t going to sell, I’ll bet that Soriano deal doesn’t happen.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Who knows if he did...
…but this is where a strong baseball guy would have interceded. If the GM thought it was a dumb move, he should have said so, because it would put the club in a bad spot for years down the road.
I can’t imagine the Blackhawks signing an expensive FA, or extending a current players contract if their GM and Scotty Bowman felt it wasn’t the right move.
McDonough is indeed a marketing guy through and through, but he is also smart enough, to know winning is the ultimate marketing tool. He also is smart enought to know when to listen to those that know more about something then he does, IMHO.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Geez
You REALLY have to bend over backwards to NOT see all that McDonough accomplished.
Just the fact that he cleared out the detritus of the front office (read: Bob Puhlford) made a MAJOR impact on the entire course of the organization.
You really are simplifying things to an amazing degree.
Bottom line is that McD pledged a Cup and PRODUCED. ’Nuff said.
by bluekoolaide on Apr 28, 2011 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I think it's oversimplifying...
… to say McDonough “produced” the Cup. He headed the organization, made some changes, but also rode a crest that had started before he got there.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
Not that simple...
…McDonough was not in a position to do the same things he did with the Hawks because of the culture in the Cubs organization.
When Wirtz hired him, he obviously did it because he knew the Hawks needed a serious boost with marketing, but he also made it crystal clear, we need to win first and foremost and we need to bring in the best people we can to strengthen the organization and we will not settle for anything but the best.
All organizations culture starts from ownership and works it way down. When Ricketts did not bring in a top flight President of baseball right from the get go, he already sent a message; “that everything is ok”. Does anybody really think that Dale Tallon wanted to bring in Scotty Bowman? Hell no, that was McDonough’s idea which was spured on by Wirtz telling him to get the best. Do you think Dale Tallon wanted to fire Denis Savard? Thats another hell no, but it happened because Scotty Bowman recommended a coach with more experience to help groom their young team.
Everything about Ricketts, tells me he isn’t even remotely close to having this same type of passion or insight to raise the organization, to where it needs to be, to assure long term on field success.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
sadly I remember the old Hawks Vision for play off games
and the Chicago Wolves were hated by Wirtz since their home an road games were all on TV before the Hawks were.
$Bill Wirtz was a busines man that made the Ricketts look like hard core fans. He pushed Bobby Hull, Stan Makita, Tony Espisito and other greats out of the organization, that would be like Ernie Banks, Billty Williams and Fergie Jenkins being told to get away from Wrigley.
$Bill might have made George Halas look like a free spender on salaries as well
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
Ditka's mustache can kill two stones with one bird
...so basically, when you saw that the owner was more fan-friendly
its funny that it wasn’t more stratigical than that :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
The Hawks were in such a bad place...
It’s hard to compare it to anything Rickett’s could’ve done with the Cubs.
Okay then, let's compare it to the Trib taking over in '81
For those of us who were there at the time, the Cubs were a dead franchise…last place…poor attendance and a barren minor league system.
The Tribsters immediately hired Dallas Green who began making sweeping changes to the front office, roster, etc.
Within three years the Cubs had gone from, arguably, the worst team in the league, to within one game of a pennant.
by bluekoolaide on Apr 28, 2011 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Or simply got different advise?
Just because one radical act worked, doesn’t mean it will always work.
Tom doesn’t seem to be aggressive with his moves – he seems to be someone who likes to look at all options, analyze the data and chose from there.
I think you're being kind :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, probably...
But apparently I’m also more patient than most. I went in expecting pretty much what is happening to happen.
Honest question...
how many Owners of the team are deep into the day to day operations of the baseball team? how many give their GM a budget and say, ’ go forth and win’..and leave them alone?…
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Depends on the team.
Some owners (or reps of ownership groups) do get involved — Nolan Ryan in Texas is a good example.
Others don’t.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
so where is Tom?
is he getting information about the DTD and hopefully applying that knowledge in picking a new GM and president then staying out of baseball operations all together.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Honest answer...
I have absolutely NO idea. :) Happy to help.
no question about that. Tom is very methodical
Perhaps Ricketts should have done what Tribune did, and immediately hire somebody to clean house. But it appears that Ricketts wants to move slowly, make observations, and take a long time to find the right person to right this ship.
As long as he does find the right person (and hopefully in the next 5 months), then this might be a sound strategy But meanwhile, we are clearly losing patience
by holy mackeral on Apr 28, 2011 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Speaking as someone who's been waiting since 1971
…I have no patience let for Tom’s “methodical” approach.
Maybe it would help though f he was “methodical” about the time he puts in in front of the tv cameras.
by bluekoolaide on Apr 28, 2011 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Unfortunately Tom cannot please everyone at once regardless of what he does.
You expected sweeping changes when that clearly isn’t his MO.
He’s doing what he thinks is best for the team long term, not what individual fans want.
Ricketts had more than a year before the sale became official to hire his people.
The fact that he had no one in mind speaks volumes to me.
by Fraggin Judge on Apr 28, 2011 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I'm going to rec'd this little statement here
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
So wait.
You’re going to hire someone and tell them they have to wait a year to take the job?
I’m not one of those who thinks they had to come in and fire everyone.
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I took that comment as having a year to plan what would happen once
the deal was through. Unless this is the plan they’ve come up with. At least it was something the owners worked out for a year before the sale was complete.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions
The time...
…to be methodical would have been the two years he had to do his due dilligence, not the first two years he owned the team.
Everything was there for him to see and for all of us to see. Bringing in one solid baseball guy to be his President, could have been accomplished if he simply would have had the forsight and done his homework.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Ricketts also took over a different team
I wasn’t alive in 1981, so I’m not sure about that. But the Hawks had made the playoffs once in 10 years (for hockey that’s Pirates-level futility) and had some of the worst attendance. Clearly the status quo wasn’t going to fly.
On the other hand, Ricketts took over a team that was selling out every game, had made the playoffs 2 of the previous 3 years.
I’m all for fair criticism of the Ricketts, but it wasn’t obvious when he took over that the Cubs way of doing things was broken, the way it was when Rocky Wirtz took over.
I don't completely disagree with you JSB
The differences you point out are fairly substantial.
I guess though, in my narrow view of the world, the people in charge would have a better handle on things like that than you and me. Certainly there were a lot of us that saw big problems on the horizon due to terrible personnel moves-I hoped the new owner would come in with a handle on all of that.
Of course, as soon as you read how they went into this thinking that “the Cubs sell out every game, win or lose” you got a pretty good idea of where their priorities were.
by bluekoolaide on Apr 28, 2011 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
The other thing you have to compare
is Rocky’s knowledge of the Orgin-I-zation vs. what Rickett’s knows. He is makeing changes but at a much slower pace.
I've been skeptical of the ownership group
I was merely pointing out that when the Ricketts took over in Fall of 2009, it wasn’t obvious that things were broken. They would have had grounds to fire him, but they didn’t necessarily need to reinvent the entire way the franchise did business the way the Blackhawks did. Now after 3 years, it should be plain that there needs to be an overhaul.
I also think it is unfair to stereotype them completely based on that YouTube video comment by a guy that isn’t even running the team.
There is nothing to prevent them from putting a winning product on the field AND making money. I don’t think their goal is to gut the team and make cash.
I would wager that every ownership group in MLB ultimate goal is to make money rather than to put a winning product on the field. Fortunately both of those often coincide. I am not going to begrudge the Ricketts’ their right to turn a profit on the team. It was an investment, not a charity project. Expecting otherwise is foolish.
I would wager that every ownership group in MLB ultimate goal is to make money rather than to put a winning product on the field. Fortunately both of those often coincide. I am not going to begrudge the Ricketts’ their right to turn a profit on the team. It was an investment, not a charity project. Expecting otherwise is foolish.
All of this is true. However, current ownership/management appears to think that making money will continue the way it had from 2003-2009, without winning (selling “the Wrigley experience”). As I have written many times, if they do that — and that’s what I see them doing, in large part — they will fail.
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A fellow poster noted this to me earlier this week
Someone with your optimism talking like this is a pretty damning commentary on the current state of the organization.
And you’re not wrong.
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 28, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I can't disagree with anything you have said.
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Good to see you agree
Selling the “Wrigley experience” will fail. They might draw at times in the summer-time, but people went from 2003-2009 because the Cubs had a winning product or at least a team that had a chance of winning.
Also consider that many Cubs fans went to the park over and over in those years, and may feel as if they have gotten their fill of the Wrigley experience for now. They’ll go back when the Cubs put a winning product on the field.
I've written that many times before.
I love going to Wrigley. It does mean something to me.
You are absolutely right. Most people now want to win. I want to win. I won’t stop going because they haven’t — but trust me, I want them to win as badly or more than anyone. Seen too much losing.
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Honestly, I couldn't care less
if I never set foot in Wrigley again. I have plenty of good memories from there, but if I was asked to trade in Wrigley for a World Series, I’d take that deal in a heartbeat.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 28, 2011 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, no.
Not the tradeoff argument again.
Wrigley Field isn’t the problem.
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I"m not making that argument
I’m posing a hypothetical.
Bottom line is Wrigley is much, much less important to me than winning a championship is.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 28, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
THIS.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 28, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm sure everyone here agrees with THIS
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course a championship is more important.
The idea — not that it’s expressed here, but it has been in the past — that tearing down Wrigley would lead to a championship, is false.
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Yes, what needs to be torn down...
is the MO from this team’s front office.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 28, 2011 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't necessarily agree with that
I wouldn’t trade 1 World Series and a crappy ballpark in Schaumburg for Wrigley.
Wouldnt even think twice about it.
Where do I sign?
your hypothetical ball park
is crappy? thats weird.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
I hate that hypothetical, it's unfair to even consider it
its like asking would you rather be blind or deaf
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions
To me...
…The Trib bringing in Dallas Green would be a close analogy to the Hawks bringing in Scotty Bowman. Green was a proven winner, who bulldozed his philosophy into the franchise in short order and his philosophy was pretty damn sound.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
The "fan friendly aspect" was only one part of a much larger plan
McD cleared out the front office that was being essentially controlled by Bob Puhlford, a guy who’s time as a hockey guru had long since passed.
He oversaw a steady over hall/ up grad of the roster…authorized key free agent signings like Brian Campbell and Marian Hossa…and, in a risky move, replaced Hawks legend Denis Savard as coach with a aguy better suited to guide the team.
by bluekoolaide on Apr 28, 2011 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
didnt the cubs have McD ?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
The Blackhawks apparently offered him a ton of money to come there.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
who let him go? he was gone before Ricketts took over right?
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
No one let him go...
It was an offer he couldn’t refuse with the Hawks.
Also, it was late 2007, early 2008?
After the 2007 hockey season, I know that.
ah I see
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
November 2007, IIRC.
You meant after the 2007 baseball season.
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Bah, yes... too many sports being discussed.
2007 baseball season.
besides the $$, McD had an unsure future with the Cubs
given that the team was for sale. The Trib couldnt offer him a long term contract to stay.
by holy mackeral on Apr 28, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
You're leaving out an important piece
The Blackhawks offered him stability.
There was no guarantee that the incoming (yet to be determined who at that time) ownership group would retain anyone.
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 28, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
That's actually a very good point Badger
…and I don’t doubt that that played into his decision considerably.
The results, however, were the same; epic for the Blackhawks. Disastrous for the Cubs.
by bluekoolaide on Apr 28, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
in other words...things were not status quo after he took over
as a Cubs fan first and foremost, I think I would prefer that type of shake-up to the same old/same old even if it had questionable results (god forbid).
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Agree Coolio
i was part of a very frustrated, depressed Hawks’ fan base…I had really started to lose interest after way too many years of horrible ownership and a bad product on the ice.
I wish I could accurately capture how exciting it’s been to witness the resurgance.
by bluekoolaide on Apr 28, 2011 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I wish I could experience one (a resurgance) as we speak,
who knows maybe we are and we just don’t know it yet :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, the minor league system is, supposedly, very good...
…they’ve started to develop some solid position players and McNutt and Dolis appear to have major league arms….okay, stop me before I start getting overly optimistic!
by bluekoolaide on Apr 28, 2011 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
lol...they should name a roller coaster ride after the Cubs
there’s an awful lot of highs and lows in being a Cubs fan.
@ Shanghai…is it “there is” or “there are”? ;)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
And let's face it...
The reason the Blackhawks were able to compete within 2 years of Rocky taking over is because they had a STACKED minor league team.
When you have THAT many #1 picks in a row, it’s easier to move forward quickly.
In fact, the Hawks still have a great system because of those bad years and the ability (need) to trade players for high upside prospects.
Take a look at Cub draft history if you think high picks
automatically lead to success.
FIFY
Take a look atCubbaseball draft history if you think high picks automatically lead to success.
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 28, 2011 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually they only had 1 #1 pick...Kane
Toews was a #3 pick. Their other high draft pick, Cam Barker was a complete bust.
by bluekoolaide on Apr 28, 2011 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
First round picks between 2003 and 2009...
They had the #14 pick or higher in every single draft.
They included names such as: Seabrook, Cam Barker (bust), Skille, Toews, Kane, and Beach.
Top 14 picks for 6 straight years makes rebuilding a LOT easier.
The firing of Savard was a good move.
Campbell and Hossa’s contracts will be harder to take as the years go by. But at least when McD gave them too many years the Hawks got a championship out of it.
True
And nobody would be complaining about Soriano’s deal or Fukudome’s deal if the Cubs had won it all in 2008.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 28, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
The firing of Savard was a great move and served to illustrate...
…that, while aware of the importance of being fan friendly, you can’t let it get in the way of making smart decisions.
I know people who were devastated when Savard was fired. Those people got over it pretty quickly though.
And kudos also to Savard who handled everyhing with class.
by bluekoolaide on Apr 28, 2011 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions
He didn't burn his bridges
He stayed in the organization and, from everything I’ve seen, has conducted himself perfectly.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 28, 2011 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
The Hawks went on TV
And McD called Hull, Mikita and Espisito and asked each one personaly to be “Team Ambassadors”.
The Fact they already had Tazer, Kaner, D2K and Biscuit was inmaterial,Rocky and McD IMMEDIATLEY dedicated engaging the fans and the History of the team.
Preemptive Palomino, lets talk political stuff elsewhere .
Second City Hockey, It's not just about Hockey, it's Blackhawks Hockey!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Apr 28, 2011 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Let me put this in perspective.
In 2006, I cared about the Cubs more than I do this year. It’s three years of the exact same crap, but the Ricketts promised to do things differently when they took over (seeing as they are fans of the team).
So far, it seems, they have cared less about the actual baseball team on the field and more about filling their pockets with money. Did they not notice the empty seats last September? That should have been a clue, but they took no notice whatsoever and not only raised ticket prices but also introduced a fifth, more expensive price tier.
If you don’t care about building a winning baseball team (which starts from everyone in the family doing all they can), you deserve to have an empty stadium. Even if it’s Wrigley Field.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 28, 2011 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions
The new owners are starting to remind me of what Bill Wirtz did to the Hawks
I have been a lifelong Cubs fan I still remember my first game I went to in 1985 when Ryno hit two HRs in a loss to SDG Steve Trout was the starter and Steve Garvey hit what would be the game winning HR in a 6-5 loss, but I feel more and more separated to them as time goes on, and the new owner is not helping out.
The Hawks got a new Chairman and turned into a very very fan friendly organization, while the Cubs have gone the opposite way. I never thought it would or even could happen, but the Cubs have now taken second fiddle for to the Hawks, and they just had their season end, but I am still more focused and concerned with the Hawks than the Cubs.
The new owners are not helping out, if they keep going this way, the Cubs will learn the same lesson the Hawks did. It does not matter how storied or historic your organization is or how loyal the fan base is, if you make the fans feel like they are ONLY a cash pot, and are not important they WILL LEAVE, and then it gets really bad
I have not left yet, but it I can see it happening, and I NEVER thought I would ever say that!
Preemptive Palomino, lets talk political stuff elsewhere .
Second City Hockey, It's not just about Hockey, it's Blackhawks Hockey!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Apr 28, 2011 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with what you've said,
…and I strongly dislike Steve Garvey!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Let's hold off a minute on the Wirtz comparisons
The Ricketts have a long ways to go before they are in Wirtz-territory.
STARTING
Not saying they are now or will be, but have signs that show they may be of the same fold. This is all.
Preemptive Palomino, lets talk political stuff elsewhere .
Second City Hockey, It's not just about Hockey, it's Blackhawks Hockey!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Apr 28, 2011 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
wait, did you mean good Wirtz-territory or bad Wirtz-territory?
cause I think they may be on the road to the bad Wirtz-territory.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
It's nice to know I'm not alone Toews
That’s basically exactly the way I feel-the Hawks have replaced the Cubs as my #1 passion and that’s something that would have been incomprehensible five years ago.
It’s all about the ownership
by bluekoolaide on Apr 28, 2011 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Man, TJ,
I couldn’t put it better myself. You have yourself a rec. I hope (but my hope is fading) that the Ricketts change, but it looks like everything you say here is true.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 28, 2011 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I completely agree with Al on this...
My wife and I are from Central Missouri. We like to road trip to Chicago at least a couple times a year to catch a game. So far, we have not run into any postponed games, but it would leave a sour taste in my mouth if we could not get some sort of refund if a game was rescheduled weeks, or even, months in the future.
I was rained out probably three times as a Cubs fan.
Twice it was a Friday and we got a double header the next day. The other time we could trade in our tickets for full refund or come back to the make up date. I felt this was fair.
If I get rained out this summer with an $84 bleacher ticket on a “prime” Saturday in July and do not get any compensation in return, I would be pissed to say the least. Wouldn’t a fan have recourse to take the Cubs to court for return of ticket price? If I agree to buy a ticket for a game and there is no game isn’t that a violation of our "agreement’?
This isn’t fair and should not continue.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
I'm sure there's some legal mumbo-jumbo on the ticket
Just like on tickets for anything there is always “CYA” legaleze printed so they can pretty much do what they want without consequences. It doesn’t mean they should do it this way, but it means they can’t be sued if they do.
It's not illegal because they are still offering you tickets to the game when it is played in the future.
There is fine print on any ticket that absolves them from responsibilities of weather, acts of God, etc.
They (ticketing people in general, not just the Cubs) are masters of CYA, because so many things can go wrong with an event of that size.
What should the Cubs do?
Bully Bud Selig into a ZERO HOME GAMES IN APRIL policy. It happens virtually every single year that several games are played in crappy weather when nobody actually, y’know, WANTS to be outside in Chicago.
Why the MLB hasn’t introduced a policy stopping April games in cold-weather climate cities without a dome is so completely beyond me…
Here's the problem.
Sure, you could play April games in domes or warm weather cities.
But that would mean the dome teams and the warm weather city teams don’t get home games in the summer, when they (along with everyone else) draw larger crowds because of summer vacations, schools being out, etc.
April can be cold and wet. This April has been particularly bad in Chicago — worst in 50 years according to Tom Skilling. Last year, April weather here was pretty good.
They gambled by scheduling the Cubs for 15 home games in April this year. They lost.
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"worst in 50 years"
so odds are you wouldnt have to refund very often
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Exactly.
So why not have a more fan-friendly policy?
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Those are good questions.
I’ll work on getting some answers. Seriously.
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Is he losing the fan base?
The only way Tom is going to “get that” is if the numbers and statistics bear it out. If attendance, revenues, etc. are down he might get it, but if they’re down for a lot of clubs this year it’ll be a lot easier to ignore.
i dont think he is...
losing the “fan” base…he’s losing the Fanatic base, but i dont think he’s losing the casual fan.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
here's my idiocy...
I have a five year old son named…Wrigley. so people assume correctly i’m a cubs fan, which usually prompts some story about how they were either heading to or went to a cubs game at some point in their life and how awesome Wrigley field is…it’s never about the quality of the team, or how awesome the team is, its always about how majestic Wrigley field is, and it is, it really is…but as a fan of the Cubs, i want a quality product to go with that majestic field…i’m over the history of the cubs, I am no longer a fan of this team for historical purposes, I want a winning team on the field and i want a world series. Tinkers to Evers to Chance was a neat story…over it. give me a World Series.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
by epsilon on Apr 28, 2011 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well said, ep...
I always say there’s ONE thing us Cubs’ fans can NOT be accused of…a lack of patience. It’s running real thin now. You can hear it. You can see it in people’s writings. You can see it in the attendance. Sure, attendance is down all over MLB, BUT, it’s Wrigley Field we’re talking about. Great place, for sure. People can think what they want about it, but, if this team was a contender…it STILL would be packed to the rafters 90% of the time…if not more. I admire the legends…Ernie, Billy, Ryno, Ronnie, Fergie, etc…but, it’s old hat now. Time to move forward and win something. The past is just that…the past.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
You're clearly upset with the Rickett's running this team.
And that’s fine… but a lot of your statements are quite over the top…
Most Cubs fans probably don’t know anything that Rickett’s has done or hasn’t done, and honestly doesn’t care. The reason you see empty stands is a combo of economy, weather, and a bad team. If you polled people, I would assume reasons they are upset with the Cubs, Rickett’s is quite far down the list.
I'm not saying your frustration is misplaced.
I’m simply saying that the average Cub fan probably doesn’t see the situation as you do.
Obviously i’m making a random assumption here too, but I have a hard time believing that most Cubs fans are as upset with Rickett’s as most are at BCB.
....the average Cubs fan probably doesn't KNOW the situation as we do!
:)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions
That's exactly my point!
Hence… Rickett’s isnt “losing the fan base”
Nitpick on a pet peeve
It’s “Ricketts”, not “Rickett’s”
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 28, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Correct...
I’m horrible with that. And thank God for spell check… I think I’d lose to most 2nd graders in a spelling bee.
Well, it's not a huge deal
But as metioned, it’s a pet peeve. That doesn’t take away from anything that you’ve said.
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 28, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Wait a minute though bd
You say that the average fan doesn’t care about what Ricketts has done but then you also (correctly imo) point out that attendance is being hurt at least partly by a bad product on the field.
It might be true that the average fan isn’t as aware of Ricketts’ miss steps but, as they’re clearly contributing to the bad product on the field, the effect is the same.
Bad product=attendance taking a hit.
by bluekoolaide on Apr 28, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I think the difference is...
I don’t think Rickett’s is responsible in any way for the product on the field for 2011.
He’s been handcuffed due to others missteps more than his own, in my opinion.
sorta disagreeing with you...
he did retain Hendry and Crane….that alone gives him some small amount of responsibility i think
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
You can't expect sweeping changes in situations like these...
It seems people are shocked he didn’t fire Hendry and Kenney right away… I’d have been more shocked if he had.
You are right.
You can’t expect new ownership to come in and change things right away. I wouldn’t put any blame on Rickett’s until about 2013 when the payroll is under control and responsible by them. After the 2013 season I’ll start forming my judgment on current ownership.
by ubercubsfan on Apr 28, 2011 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
that's why i sorta disagree'd with you...
i dont really 100% by into my own rebuttal, i was a supporter of hendry up until late last year. but some changes(and toilets dont count) needed to be made.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
They definitely do.
And I think they will after this season. If they are not, I will quickly lose what patience I have.
However, as I stated, since I walked in expecting pretty much exactly what is happening, I’m not jumping ship on the Rickett’s yet.
Im probably more than a casual fan
but the raising of ticket prices, mixed with the product on the field is keeping me away from wrigley this year. I have gone to opening day every year since 1997, and decided to pass this year.
even if they had a refund at the gate policy...
more people would show up at a possible rainout game and that would mean in those 3 hours more consessions would have been sold to those diehards desperate to use their expensive tickets.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions
The problem wasnt the 15 games, but
who the 15 games were against. There is no reason for a schedule maker to have a NL central team play so many home dates in April against either warm climate teams or domed teams. No common sense at all.
I am a traveler of both time and space to be where I have been. Robert Plant 1975
Beyond the fact that they're playing some warm wx teams in Chicago in April...
… and the Rockies don’t really qualify, it makes things more difficult when you schedule teams for their only Wrigley visit in April.
If you must do all the home games in April, make them divisional games. At least then you have more choices of makeup dates for rainouts.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
The Cubs tell us their own surveys show that a substantial portion of the fanbase travels to Wrigley Field from out of state, that it’s become a tourist destination
this confuses me, it just reinforces another fear that the owners dont get it….this time with their fanbase. Do they know ticket sales are down because of prices, the product on the field, or do they really think its because of the weather as I hear constantly on the radio and tv when the game is on? I think a friendly resolution to this would go farther than $10 bleacher tickets.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 8:37 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I like the exchanging idea.
Let them put the money towards another ticket later in the season. What the difference? They still get the same amount of money, and have the chance to sell that seat to the makeup game. (Yes, nobody will buy the makeup game if it’s the next day, like last week, but in theory they COULD put it up as an open seat).
However, look at this makeup game on June 27th. Lots of people may jump on the chance to get Bronze prices at the end of June. A lot more people will be there on a sunny summer day. THIS is a situation where the Cubs get helped. If we take a gamble with the weather, they should take a gamble of a bad make up day.
It was a "silver" price game.
But your point is still valid.
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They have different tiers for the same game depending on the section??
Now that’s just bizarre.
They don't offer bleachers for the makeup game yet.
I hope thats some issue with them being different price levels than the bowl….but I would only be slightly surprised if they moved that Silver up to a Gold.
Pardon this off topic question, but I have a question about Shark.
He is in the last guaranteed year of the 5 yr contract the Cubs signed him to that includes a no trade clause. If they Cubs decline the options (which they will,) they will still retain control of Shark until he reaches 6 yrs of MLB service time.
Since the contract will be concluded, Shark will no longer have no trade protection after this season then, correct?
Baseball is back!!
Believe so, he'd need 6 years of service time to be a free agent.
We have to choose to tender him a contract, and if we did he’d get a raise from the 2M… Do.Not.Want.
assuming the Cubs decline Shark's 2012 option, they can renew his contract at 80% of 2011 contract
as he is not yet eligible for arbitration. Shark’s 2011 pay is $3.5 million, so they would have to offer him $2.8 million for 2012. Unless he pitches GREAT for the next few months, this is not even worth discussing, and he will be non-tendered and become a free agent.
by holy mackeral on Apr 28, 2011 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
He could be non-tendered, then re-signed at a lower rate.
Right? Or not?
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sure. But if I was the Shark, I would get out of Dodge
and go someplace with a fresh start, where nobody cares about how much I was overpaid on my previous contract. Unless he feels some sense of obligation towards the Cubs
by holy mackeral on Apr 28, 2011 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Well...
… he’s from the Chicago area (Valparaiso) and apparently likes living here. So there’s that.
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it's funny-2 good weeks, and now we are discussing the possibility of keeping him
but Cub fans can be tough on guys who dont earn their paychecks. If he has a lousy year, he leaves. But if the Shark has a solid year, they could agree to terms for 2012.
by holy mackeral on Apr 28, 2011 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd keep Shark next year
If he paid the Cubs 4M to accurately reflect his value over the last 5 years.
You know, I sort of understood not refunding the tickets when the game was being played the next day
But REALLY? They aren’t refunding tickets to a game that won’t be played for another two months?
Pardon my language but that’s just bullshit.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 28, 2011 8:56 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
I actually can see a no refund policy
That seems to be asking a bit much and it doesn’t appear any team has that policy.
But, they should allow an exchange for a different game.
More ticket follies
Yankees accidentally release personal info of 20,000 season ticket holders
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Not me!
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Money Talks
This is an absolutely unacceptable policy by the Cubs. If I had tickets to this game, since I live out of state, I would have to re-plan a trip to Chicago, which is likely impossible. I can usually only afford (time wise) a trip to Chicago during baseball season, once a year. We absolutely have to show this organization that we do not accept this policy by not spending money on the Cubs until they become more fan friendly and also put a team on the field that has a chance of getting somewhere.
Your issue is with the weather
If you can only go once a year, and your game is rained out. Exchange wouldn’t help you.
They should allow an exchange though.
Wrong.
The Cubs’ past policy would have been just fine, I could exchange for a future ticket, doesn’t have to be this year. Or even the policy of some of the other clubs of 12 month exchanges would be fine…..you see because 12 months would include up to this point of next season.
The ticket holders to Wednesday's game just got a gift
The Cubs just took away a rainy – even without rain, at least chilly – game in late April and handed ticket holders a more than likey warmer and sunnier game in late June. I would take this exchange every time.
Can’t make the game? Sell the ticket. The ability to sell a ticket is there with only minimal barrier to entry into the market. There’s a good chance the ticket holder will make money from this date change.
This was a Silver ticket in the bleachers/ Bronze ticket in the bowl. Looking at the schedule, the June 27 game is surrounded by Gold level tickets. This means an increase in value to the ticket holders.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 9:07 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
That's complete, total and utter nonsense.
An increase in ticket value? This isn’t the stock market. They aren’t going to be able to sell the ticket for more because the games surrounding that date are more expensive.
Furthermore, the point of buying a ticket to the game isn’t to make money (unless you are a ticket broker) it is to take in a game during the date you purchased the tickets for.
Claiming this is somehow a boon to those who aren’t getting a refund is…well….it’s what I called it in the header
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 28, 2011 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions
The point is, that date range is in the "gold" package.
Meaning that likely this game, if actually sold for that date, would have been sold as gold instead of silver/bronze.
True.
But to put the burden on the ticketholder to get his money back if he/she can’t come from out of town (or even IN town) to the makeup date? Some people are out hundreds of dollars.
As noted elsewhere, I can understand “no refunds”. But the Cubs have done refund/exchange in the past, and other teams allow exchanges.
If new ownership wants to be “fan-friendly”, this policy is not the way to do it.
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Oh, I completely agree...
I was just trying to clarify the point that was being made, as I’m not sure Nunya took is the way it was intended.
hooray?
that’s still not a “gift” to the fans who bought the tickets for yesterday’s game.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 28, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
That wasn't my argument.
I was simply clarifying the point made originally.
I understand all that
I have season tickets and we hold a ticket draft in March to split up the tickets. I draft more tickets in the summer and less in April. From my perspective, this is another date in June and one less date in April. And I think more people prefer a date in June or April.
Maybe I’m just a lemonade from lemons type of guy.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Sure.
But just because you feel that way, doesn’t mean it’s fair to the single game buyer from Iowa who can’t make it back on June 27.
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maybe,
but it shouldnt be the responsibility of the purchaser of a ticket in april to be responsible to go to/sell a ticket for a game in June.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
It's one thing when it's Daily Plan holders like us.
What about the family from an hour away that can’t make the new date? It’s their job to now find takers for their tickets? Pardon my language, but the policy is 100% pure, Grade A bullshit.
I'll watch the stubhub for this game and see how it pans out
I would expect prices to rise.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Skyrocketed.
I checked as soon as I heard. Terrace reserved was $22 when face is $12, and bleachers are around $50 when they should be $32
Still face value at Cubs.com
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Right.
Which is why those Stubhub prices will likely drop.
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There will probably be a middle ground on the price
As tickets get bought up on Cubs.com at face value.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I hear what you're saying but
don’t you think I would have known that June 27th would have been a more comfortable game weather-wise when I bought that April ticket? Personally, I don’t buy April tickets, I like my games at Wrigley as warm as possible. But if everyone thought like that no tickets at all would be sold in April at all. I wouldn’t buy a ticket either with the thought that if I wasn’t able to use it I could just resell it. You’ll have less April sales is my point.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Then you should go buy this game
Because on Cubs.com, it is still listed at yesterday’s prices. Not priced like most dates in June.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
well that's something positive, isn't it :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
only random
the reverse could easily happen—what if my weekend date in July is rained out, and the makeup date is in late September and the Cubs are far out of contention. I’m certainly not going to be able to sell those tickets for more money than I paid for the weekend July game.
I’m 6 hours by car from Chicago. I try to come with the family once a summer, and hopefully on a business trip if possible. I understand the Cubs can’t control the weather. But if I miss the game and then find out there’s no way to recoup my $250 in tickets because I can’t make some random make up Wednesday two months later, I’m not going to be very happy.
by TC Cubby on Apr 28, 2011 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
to clarify
I think an exchange would be very fair, preferably 12 months. That would give me time to plan for another trip.
12 months would be pretty generous, but nice.
The remainder of the season would be fair. If there’s a rainout in September, make it through the first half of the following year.
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The Cubs had a 10 year old list before.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions
More than that.
They had a list of rainouts going back to 1989. I don’t think there were more than four in any one season.
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The rain-out policy
would make for a great set of questions for the new VP of ticket sales.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
That was a lot easier
when all games were priced the same. Even easier up to the mid-1980s when the majority of seats were general admission.
I'm not anti-rain refund policy
The rain policy was informal before and not publicized. They previously had a list of dates scrawled on paper and would exchange rain-outs for tickets or Cubs bucks. The list was 10+ years old. I would not be surprised if the Cubs actually worked with you.
I don’t know if the Cubs now have a hard and fast policy. But for this case, I think a fan in general is comioong out ahead.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm going to disagree with you.
There is no guarantee that anyone with tickets to yesterday’s game can resell them at all, much less at a profit.
You mentioned Cubs dollars. Even that would be better than “no refunds/exchanges”.
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Cubs dollars makes a lot of sense...
Spend it on a new game, if you can’t get to another game, buy some merch. At least then you aren’t tasked with selling a ticket that is going for way below face value.
they'd come out way ahead, wouldn't they
first, if I have a credit to spend on merchandise, I usually end up spending at least a few more dollars. Plus, the money spent on retail, following markup, would give the cubs more revenue than a game seat, I would think.
Second, if I use my cubs dollars on merchandise, they are free to sell my seat at the make up game, making even more money.
No doubt...
How many times do you get a gift card and ONLY spend the amount on the gift card?
If the Cubs implemented an online system that you could use to purchase Cubs tickets, it could have mass appeal. Find a way to do the following:
- Allow the Cubs bucks to be spent online at Cubs.com, MLB.com, and Stubhub.com.
- Give the fans a credit card type feature that holds all of their account information. They can use it at the gate, on concessions, at the stores, etc.
- Allow exchange of points between cards – if I want to gift my family $50 Cubs points, let me give it to whoever I want.
The funny thing is
The one time I did the exchange, the customer service rep messed up and gave me cash instead of Cubs bucks! She said “oh well.”
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
That's a big assumption
Given the glut of tickets on the secondary market, and the potential for the club to be labeled a non-contender by then, one could very well end up eating the cost of those tickets.
by Damen Jackson on Apr 28, 2011 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
It's possible, I don't think it's probable
For where my seats are, this ticket is going from $12 to $28. That’s using the date 6/27 date and ticket prices surrounding that date.
It might be an assumption, but it’s one I’d be willing to work with.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Simply put
It’s a BS policy. Not offering refunds after a rainout is about as fan unfriendly as it gets.
It makes me think of Joe Ricketts telling people about how Tom peaked his interest in buying the team: “They sell out every game, win or lose.” That’s exactly how they’re running this organization, with extreme arrogance. “Don’t want to come anymore? Pfft. Big deal. Another 40,000 will take your spot.” Someone should tell them that attendance is down 16%, and with policies like this, it’s only going to get worse.
For people that haven’t seen it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac6h2wczxGA
1:45 – 2:05
"They sell out every game, win or lose"
If that isn’t an indictment about the priorities of these clowns, I don’t know what is.
by bluekoolaide on Apr 28, 2011 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Clowns? That's a little harsh.
I think people have taken that line way over the top. It was most likely a statement showing that they love the dedication of the fans, nothing more. People are taking it like there were dollar signs in their eyes during that sentence.
They’ve come out and said they are literally putting every penny this team makes back into the team, whether it’s paying off their debts or working to improve the team on the field or through scouting/facility improvements. It’s not like they’re pocketing the millions and giving us shit on purpose.
Paying off debts is a little misleading
Considering that much of the team’s debt is owed to the Ricketts’ family trust. The Ricketts can still earn a nice little profit on this venture just through the repayment of that debt (at presumably fairly high interest rates) and the increased value of the franchise.
It certainly was a "dollar signs in the eyes" statement.
Papa Joe wasn’t complimenting the fans on their dedication. He’d asked Tom “Why would I want to buy a baseball team?! I am not a fan. I have no interest in sports.”
“Dad, they sell out every game. Win or lose.”
“Now you’re talking about a business. Now you’ve got my interest.”
There is no other possible interpretation.
Moreover, do you really believe that they’re putting “literally every penny” back into the team? I’m reasonably certain that they’ve backed off that statement.
Finally, as JSB notes, these debt payments are to their own family trust.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Is it realistic though to have an owner that isn't treating it as a business?
People that have $750 million (or in the case of the Ricketts access to $750 million in loans) generally don’t like to lose money. I think the best we can hope for is a competent ownership who recognizes the best way to make money is by putting out a quality product.
I absolutely agree. They should treat it like a business.
I just think they have run their business rather poorly for the last year.
I also took some issue with the idea that Papa Joe was so moved by the rain-or-shine dedication of Cub fans that he just had to be a part of it all, no matter the cost.
As you’ve noted elsewhere, the best way for the Cubs to make money is by putting a good team on the field.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
That YouTube video bothered me too
Mainly because it made Papa Joe look like he thought Cubs fans are toothless rubes that can easily be taken advantage of.
Hopefully the entire family learning that in the 2000s, Cubs fans won’t pay premium prices for a turd-sandwich of a product.
I also think that the perception of Cubs fans showing up rain-or-shine is a bit overstated.
Wow, All I can say is I'd never actually seen that video...
Just watched it, and I take back anything said about that one. Foot in mouth, all that good stuff.
wow, never saw that....that makes me really mad and sad :(
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions
At the risk of causing trouble
I am a season ticket holder and I was not happy with the refund policy.
I sent an email to my ticket rep. and copied in the VP of Sales. He responded that they will let me use it as a credit toward a future game. So the squeaky wheel method may work.
Well, that's a problem
Because they are now treating you differently than the other fans. Still not a good policy. They should let all other ticket holders do that and ANNOUNCE that is what they are doing.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 28, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Cubs have always done refunds under the table...
And never announced it as a policy. So this is nothing new. Every company everywhere has inconsistent return policies – it’s all a matter of who you get on what day.
Well then that makes it perfectly fine.
HOORAY!
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 28, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
It's not just the Cubs.. it's pretty much the way refunds/exchanges go.
Deal with it, humans aren’t always consistent.
HOORAY FOR INCONSISTENCY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 28, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Why would anyone expect a refund?
Seriously. I think an exchange would be more than fair.
The Cubs current policy is in-line with what most other major market teams are offering (Red Sox, White Sox and Dodger).
An exchange policy within 12 months is the most generous that any team apparently has.
I agree... looking for a refund is asking a lot.
a 12 month exchange is even a lot… but I think you need to offer exchanges, at least to similar level games within the same season.
I got a full refund for a rainout just a few years ago.
That policy changed after new ownership took over.
Why are the Ricketts obligated to maintain that policy?
That they had the most generous informal policy in baseball shouldn’t prevent them from changing to another more than fair policy.
I'm advocating an exchange policy, not the actual policy in place
You are arguing for a policy that is of a different kind than that offered by any other team.
Well, I can understand them not issuing refunds.
The refund policy was quite generous, and appreciated by many. But the truth is, no other team does that (if they ever did).
So I can understand ending the refund policy (which was informal).
But they really should offer dollar-for-dollar exchanges.
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why not a refund at the gate tho? do you think that would be too generous?
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Too difficult, because you might have...
… thousands lining up, not enough staff. Besides, most tickets are sold by credit card. You could just refund the card on request.
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yeah, I see how that could be a problem
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions
It would be very generous and fan-friendly to continue that.
I do understand why they don’t — seems to be the norm for most sports teams.
Exchange would be fair.
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Just wondering
When in the season was that game? Was it rescheduled or cancelled?
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 28, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
A dollar-for-dollar exchange...
… for any available ticket would be fair. That way, the ticket buyer gets a game of his/her choice AND the Cubs get to re-sell the original seat, which they likely would for this makeup game.
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Cubs have to be hoping for more postponements
Not only do they get to double-dip (possibly) on concessions, but with the pitching situation the more April and May games that get moved to later on in the year, the better!
I LOL'd at this.
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by Al Yellon on Apr 28, 2011 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
There are two distinct groups of ticket buyers involved
Full season ticket holders like Al and me. I don’t actually have a problem with the Cubs “forcing” us to buy a make up game. We agree to buy every game regardless of when it was played. I believe there are a little over 20,000 full season ticket holders. For combo plan owners the question is if both the original and make up game would have been in their package, the answer is yes for the first rain out and no for the 2nd.
What is truly stupid about the Cubs policy as the people who are really screwed are the very people they need to cater to, people who buy tickets by the game. For someone who bought one of the rainouts directly from the Cubs to be told “Sorry Charlie, We don’t care if you came in from another part of country, it was for your kid’s birthday , etc., you either go to the game we tell you or you lose the money”. This is absolutely typical of their fan unfriendly marketing. As pointed out by others, the Cubs would lose NOTHING if they offered these fans another game of their choice from a list of similar games. They would actually MAKE money as these weekday games will not sell out and this way they get food and drink buying fannies to fill the seats.
The next time you see a member of the Ricketts family talk about how they are working so hard to make the Cub fan “experience” a great one, remember this. Actions speak louder than words.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 9:40 AM CDT reply actions 10 recs
The only thing that I disagree with
is the blatant CUBS bash. As Al points out most MLB teams have similar policies. This is not a Cubs or Ricketts issue only though they could be a leader in fixing the situation.
Not every team does this
and the fact that the Cards offered the policy the Cubs should have sticks in my gut especially when it does NOT cost a penny and could actually make them money.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't get me wrong. I agree that the policy sucks.
See my post above where I got in touch with the VP of sales.
But they are not alone in the world of Big Business of Professional sports.
I know you are not disagreeing
but just because a number of other teams have the same stupid policy is no excuse and what makes this SO stupid is that it would cost them NOTHING to offer a selection of games in exchange. I am not even suggesting they offer money back though I think they should do that for anyone with an out of state license.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
For the combo plans it is yes for both games isn't it?
night for night on the first one and weekday day for weekday day for the second
by doofus cubs guy on Apr 28, 2011 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions
The Combo plans are for night & weekends only
no weekday games unless they are holidays.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Duh - but the 2nd game was not part of the nights/weekends 'combo' plan
it WAS part of the ‘daily double’ plan which are for weekday day games (used to be just Wednesday and Friday day games) and since the makeup game for the 2nd rainout is also a weekday day game the answer is yes for both games
by doofus cubs guy on Apr 28, 2011 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I forgot they even had those
can’t be too many people left that have them.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Totally agree.
As a STH, I prefer a game in June. For single game buyers, like I said earlier, the policy is BS.
I saw Tom Ricketts from my seat ;)
Monday night during the Mist of Wrigley game. He was walking around the right field corner and talking to people. This, during a game that the tribune’s Paul sullivan claimed he was not in his box seats due to the rain.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
ALL IS FORGIVEN
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 28, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Well
My seat was wet when I showed up (how surprising, glad I grabbed napkins). But somehow my beer cup holder was dry. Priorities.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Thank god you set us straight, otherwise we
well we still wouldn’t have cared whether he was at the game or not
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 28, 2011 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
You wake up on the wrong side of the bed today?
Or is this weather just really getting to everyone?
Another recent change to "weather management" in MLB
It seems to me that teams are often basically playing in the rain these days to get the game in. Take Opening Day as an example — I think 10 years ago, that game goes into rain delay and is eventually cancelled. Instead, they played through what was pretty much steady rain, coming out every 1/2 inning to add dirt to the pitcher’s mound. It was a putrid experience — I’d have much preferred a rainout.
I’ve noticed this in New York, too. It takes A LOT to get them to stop games.
Al, do you concur, or I have I just been unlucky?
Not only trying to get the game in,
but fields these days have more sophisticated drainage systems that can handle more rain.
"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."
This is true
If only my clothes had a more sophisticated drainage system when I’m watching baseball in the pouring rain.
I do concur....
… especially for games like Opening Day, where they had a close to sold out crowd.
Obviously, in New York there is quite a bit more money at stake for each Yankee game.
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I was out of town this year for opening day
When did it start raining? Whole day? because after that games starts, look to the umpire and not the club about cancelling a game.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
It rained almost the entire game.
Not hard, but steadily.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
This policy has the potential to disuade ticket sales
First off, this policy may work for teams like the Red Sox, teams that play the majority of their games at night. Most people are done with work at 7:05, etc, and while some may have other obligations, most are able to clear their schedule or know far enough in advance. That doesn’t make the policy right. However… the fact that the Cubs play most games at 1:05pm, when most of the world works, and they expect an even up exchange is utter stupidity and hubris. Maybe they spoke to Lee Elia on this, but the reschedule game is on a Monday at 1:05. Just because you have a day off in April doesn’t mean that you have a day off in June. This is just idiotic.
As has been pointed out, a good number of Cubs fans travel to see games. I live in the Chicago area, however my job takes me away from the area for three months of the summer. Had I bought tickets for the delayed game, my job makes it impossible for me to attend the reschedule game. I can’t speak for anyone else, but unless this policy changes, I won’t be buying tickets ahead of time. If there are games that I can go to, I will have to decide day of game to attend, but I’m not going to risk a good amount of money on a rainout now with such a tremendously shortsighted ticket policy.
by dmlichte on Apr 28, 2011 10:06 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Correction taken and point made.
This is exactly what I was talking about in the post. And you are not alone.
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Thanks
And I’m not trying to be a pain… tickets are expensive. I didn’t feel all that compelled to buy tickets in when they went on sale this year because I didn’t feel that it was a great team. No way am I going to risk losing what could be a few hundred bucks if I buy tickets of family/friends and I don’t believe that I should have to spend time on the phone making my case to the Cubs ticket office.
This is just tremendously short sighted.
Ticket office work
I can see how a no refund policy makes work in the ticket office much easier – no need to print or mail new tickets, just use what you have for the original date. However, with tickets these days scanned at the gate, an exchange system should be relatively painless to implement when the game is not played the next day.
With a substantial base of full season ticket holders, many tickets would not have to be changed anyway. They use their original tickets. If a single game ticket holder can’t make the game in June, they could have a window, maybe 4 weeks, to exchange that ticket for a future date they can attend. Their seats go back on sale with time for the team to resell them. If the original tickets were purchased online, this could be set up over the internet. A fan logs in to their account and does this, making their original ticket barcode invalid and now they can exchange for a future date. If they don’t exchange by a certain date, the original ticket is still valid for the rescheduled game.
Tickets purchased with cash at the box office with no record of ownership I suppose would still have to physically returned and exchanged before they could be resold. But those numbers might be no more that 5,000 – maybe less.
Probably way less than 5,000 tickets bought with cash.
The rest of your proposal makes sense.
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Had a group of 50 kids from my school take the bus down for a field trip
Got to sit in the cold, etc. and wait until it was postponed. Had to pay for a bus, etc. and just told the kids that their ticket would be good in June.
So basically, if 50 of my students’ families want to come down on June 27, they have one free ticket!
You know what these low income, hard-working families would have preferred? Their $15 bucks back, or at least credit so they can plan a family trip whenever they want.
That makes me think about group sales: If you are a big group and have purchased 50 tickets, chances are you’re not going to bring your group back for the make-up. Wonder if there’s an different rainout exchange policy for groups?
Maybe I should have one of the cute 2nd grade girls go up to Tom and say: "Mr. Wicketts…..dis is my first Cubs game…..how come I don’t get a wefund? The Cardinals give wefunds….maybe I’ll cheer for them instead when I’m a 22 year old Trixie living in Wrigleyville spending $80 on your $12 beers in the AB INBEV Bud Light Bleachers sponsored by Goose Island when the World Champion Cubs are defending their 4th title against the Las Vegas Gamblers of the Southeastern Division "
Sorry, need to work on voice in my writing.
Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08 Coffee Table Debut: 7/17/08
by Fukudometer on Apr 28, 2011 10:24 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
So basically, if 50 of my students’ families want to come down on June 27, they have one free ticket!
Which doesn’t help either, because it’s for a reserved seat, right? So if the family wants to come, they can buy more tickets — in a completely different section.
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maybe all 50 families can get together
re-sort the tickets, and then sit with their families. I suggest they do that before they get on one of the four buses that they’ll have to take.
Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08 Coffee Table Debut: 7/17/08
by Fukudometer on Apr 28, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
it's a good school
I’m sure they’ll figure it out.
Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08 Coffee Table Debut: 7/17/08
by Fukudometer on Apr 28, 2011 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
I can see the Cubs viewpoint regarding season tickets. You get a ticket for whenever the game is played.
but for the 9000 or so others that bought tickets yesterday, they should be able to make a ticket exchange.
And as a season ticket holder...
… I agree with both of those positions.
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Maybe that's just my angle on it
I’m a season ticket holder and I (or someone in my group) had the ticket for 4/27 or 6/27, no matter what.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Nevertheless
for the single game buyer, offering exchanges would be fair, and “fan-friendly”.
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back to the weather
I think/hope the Cubs will do better on the road….one thing I know is that this weather here is really zapping the energy out of me, that’s all I want to do is eat and sleep!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
I really want to give the new ownership a fair shake.
But it’s getting harder and harder. Every move they make is a PR nightmare. It’s scary to think where this franchise will be in 5 years if these sort of moves continue.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Did anyone think they would miss Sam Zell?
The way the Ricketts have managed to destroy all the good will they came in with reminds me of Sammy Sosa doing the same. Zell basically did not care which ironically worked out better.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 11:52 AM CDT reply actions
Zell destroyed the Trib
but he really did leave the Cubs alone
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
You are kidding yourself if you think you would rather have Zell than the Ricketts
What have the Ricketts done affirmatively that has been bad. The only thing I can come up with is the public money proposal. And Zell surely would have done something similar if given the chance.
Zell was a disaster and wasn’t around long enough to do real damage.
You're just hyper-sensitive
Monday night, I saw workers in the Sheffield Grill handing out samples. Sure they want you to buy the big buffalo burger, but it’s a nice touch to walk out and offer a sample. I saw a fan ambassador with a PDA conducting a survey. I saw Tom Ricketts walking around in the rain talking to different fans.
I think they are working to make things better. It may take time and they may not always be right the first time, but I think they are trying to get better.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
If they are working to make things better than change the rain out policy
NOW!. Walking around and greeting fans and giving out a little piece of burger is not going to make up for thousands of fans forget they are being screwed on the tickets they bought. Stop confusing ticket buyers by adding tax separately and lower ticket prices, especially in the bleachers. The “changes” they tout are cosmetic ( like the silly fan ambassadors) the real policy is not fan friendly.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Screwing over the fans?
That’s a little over the top, isn’t it?
For BCB, that's birdie golf
My goodness, how terrible that the cubs showed what the tax was on a ticket. No fan could figure that out. Kids only learn about whole numbers now in school.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Doing something no other sports team does
to gain a political advantage not to learn math was indeed screwing the fans. It backfired big time.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
How does the tax thing screw over anybody?
Is anyone paying more? I’ve always found this to be the oddest complaint. I actually appreciate seeing how much of the ticket price is tax.
Don't ask
I’m pretty sure the conspiracy theory will have something to do with mastercard premium ticket sales, birthers, and a Japanese nuclear facility.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Because a fan buying a ticket online ( as many do)
See’s a ticket listed at say $50 and by the time they get to check out it is $65 with tax and fees. Why are the Cubs the ONLY sports team out of well over 100 to do this? They did it to try to get the state to give them the tax money, they looked like idiots and you should see how much the guys at the box office like
making change (I bought a single this past weekend). It is an idiotic policy that did not accomplish it goal & pisses off fans which is pretty much par for the course with what the Ricketts have done since they took over. Oh and just for fun the check out still includes misinformation indicating the tax is 21%
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't see the big deal.
Fees are always added separately when buying tickets online, whether it’s sports or other entertainment. Tax is separate on almost everything else you buy; I don’t see why it’s a big deal here.
I just checked my old ticket stubs as well. They’ve been doing this on the season ticket stock for years. This should be nothing new for you. Are you just pissed because they’re doing it for single game buyers now? Or because a ticket comes out to $xx.xx now instead of a nice round number?
Putting it on the ticket is one thing
Lisitng it separetly and AFTER you click to buy tickets is another. Why are the Cubs the only team in sports that does this? Because as Kenny admitted they wanted to gain a political advantage, how did that work out? . It does not matter to season ticket holders as we see the price from the start, but on line and even at the box office (small print) it is different.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
But the Cubs somewhat camouflage the ticket cost on the hard ticket
while the tax is clearly legible. It’s just another embarrassing petty thing these guys do. Maybe it stems from the family’s anti-tax mania.
This is a common practice in all ticket sales...
I don’t see the big deal.
Please find me ANY other
Major sports team that does this.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions
To what end?
What do you possibly hope to gain from this never-ending perpetual exercise?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 28, 2011 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Um to show the Cubs are doing something
stupid are the only team dumb enough to do it.
If it is no big deal or a good thing., why don’t the other 100 plus major sports teams do this? People buying tickets to a sports event from the team have an expectation that tax IS included because this is how EVERY OTHER TEAM DOES IT.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Take out an ad in the Trib....
buy some billboard space….
send out a mass email…
hire a sky-writer for the next homestand…
but if you keep bringing this up at every possible opportunity here…expect some of us to begin/continue to laugh.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 28, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Laugh all you want
but the Cubs are still doing something not a single other team does that confuses and annoys ticket buyers.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
So far you are the only one that I've seen that is really bothered by this practice
No team has the listed price the same as the checkout price for online ticket sales. They all have a convenience fee or order processing charge added on.
Everyone else recognizes that often the final checkout price is not the price listed on the first page. Whether that includes tax AND convenience charges or just convenience charges is not really the big deal you are making it out to be.
Exactly
Order a ticket on the Web from any MLB team and it’s the same deal. The list price isn’t what you end up paying, thanks to up to $10-12 per ticket for various and sundry fees.
I don’t like that, but that’s SOP in the sports and entertainment world.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Apr 28, 2011 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions
It is not about the fees it is the TAX
Again no MLB team, NBA team, NFL team or NHL team keeps the tax out of the initial ticket price you see adding to that lovely 12% surprise and if you think no one was upset you missed all the posts when people realized it for the first time last year
when tickets went on sale.
For the 100th time, if it no big deal why does no other professional sports team do this?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
No one else doing it doesn't mean it's shady.
You know what you’re paying before you hit “buy tickets,” end of story. They aren’t screwing you, you just don’t like how they present it. We get that, we don’t all agree.
Yeah, the first time people saw it
Then they realized what it was, and probably never again gave it a second thought.
Unlike you.
Rays do it.... first team I tried.
Tickets on the front page said $255 per ticket.
When I went to pay, they added $6 convenience charge per ticket and a $3.30 order processing charge.
HOW DARE THEY?!?!
Yes, that's right.
But ONLY the Cubs split out the entertainment tax as well. That’s the point being made here.
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No, it's the point being made here
If DS was just saying she found the practice odd and annoying, that would be that.
But she brings up over and over that the Cubs are “screwing” their customers through this practice. That’s just silly.
Agreed.
It’s not screwing anyone. It is, however, misleading and annoying.
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The point is that the price shown isn't the final price.
That’s true anywhere. The Cubs just have higher fees because of taxes.
Totally pointless to complain about in my opinion.
MUCH higher "fees".
If you go online to buy a bleacher ticket and the price says $72, and then you find out by the time you’re done that the total price is over $85, wouldn’t you feel a bit misled?
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Honestly, not really.
Unfortunately after buying dozens of concert tickets and sporting tickets each year, I’m used to stupid fees being tacked on.
Is it annoying every time I see it? yes. Do I feel like I’m getting screwed over? no.
that's $13 in fees! family of 4--$52 in fees!!!!!!!
yikes, somebody is screwing me!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Would you feel less screwed....
If the ticket showed up on the first page as $85?
I can see feeling disappointed. Not screwed.
At least then you'd know exactly how much you are paying.
“No ups, no extras”.
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As compared to 10 seconds later?
When it is revealed on the next page? If you really think that’s such a big deal, fine. I don’t see it.
As pointed out
NO other sports team does this.
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Well then I guess it's NOT FAIR.
Come on Al, this is one of the most minor things in the universe of “things wrong with the Chicago Cubs” that you could possibly throw your weight behind.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 28, 2011 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
It's part of "things wrong with the Cubs".
I’m not making a huge deal out of it.
The refusal to give exchanges for yesterday’s rainout is more important.
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What does it matter what other teams do? They can do whatever they like.
The bottom line is, you know what you are paying before you hit the “pay now” button.
you know what?
it’s not just Cubs tickets….its cell phone bills, cable bills, gas, etc., everything has fees to it and to some one who’s trying to make ends meet…yes, I feel I’m being screwed, and not in a good way.
I know this has nothing to do with what you asked me…just venting.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Um Al the total price is $90
for a $72 ticket. In stage one they add the tax and a service fees, in stage two they add a handling fee. If you do print at home it goes to $92
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions
My point is who cares?
It’s not original to only the Cubs, any music ticket I buy always does this. It’s not that uncommon, and it doesn’t change a single thing.
I pay tax separately on my concert tickets too.
I walked up to a box office recently and paid an extra $5.50 because of it.
I still don’t understand your rage. Whether the tax is masked in the ticket price or separated out, you’re still paying it.
It's not as unusual as DoggieStalker is painting it
I also have bought concert tickets and had the same issue. I was disappointed that the tickets cost more than I anticipated, but I didn’t feel as though I’d been screwed.
OMG SO SCREWED!!!!
I clicked one window ahead and the price jumped.
Sort of like with airline tickets. And actually sort of like with any ticket you purchase online where there is a service charge.
Saying you find it annoying is fine. Saying your getting screwed is way overboard.
Honestly, the majority of your ticket complaints are very personal complaints that are best suited for facebook.
I think airline pricing is misleading, too.
Don’t tell me it costs $98 each way on a round-trip ticket. That’d be $196.
By the time you’re done with taxes and fees, a ticket like that is $260. Just tell me what the thing costs. Don’t be disingenuous and split out a tax that had been included in the ticket price for decades.
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Would you say an airline is "screwing you"?
No. It’s an industry practice that you find annoying. Now, if after you made the purchase, the Cubs charged your credit card an extra 12%. Yes, I would say the Cubs were screwing you.
All we are talking about is having to click through to one extra page before VOILA the true price of the ticket including tax is revealed. It’s hardly screwing over their customers to do it like that.
This is a Cubs practice that...
… is literally done by NO other sports team. Go ahead, find me one that splits out the entertainment tax as a separate line item.
You won’t, because there aren’t any.
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I'm not arguing that point
I’m arguing that even though they are the only ones that do it, it’s not that big of a deal. Nobody is getting screwed here.
The Cubs wanted to make the point that they contribute a lot to the city through entertainment taxes. They thought the best way to do that was through this practice. I wouldn’t do it, but it is hardly worth bringing up over and over again.
What's the actual tax?
I just clicked through and it has a 12% amusement tax and a 9% sales tax. Is that incorrect?
Yes it is the actual tax is 12% period
The 9% is INCLUDED in the 12% but that is not how the Cubs show it, Most people would assume as they write it that is 12% AND 9% and that sounds pretty horrible. They have been told of this but have not bothered to change it.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure I understand
So there is an extra 3% sales tax on tickets that doesn’t apply to other purchases? Only 12% of the ticket purchase is charged as tax?
So, I just looked at two tickets for Cubs-Cardinals for a total of $42. Next window it told me it was $56 with a $14.86 service charge. That is 35% of $42. So only 12% ($5) of that is tax? THe other $9.86 is some sort of a convenience charge.
Maybe you are on to something.
Ah
So, I’m back to my original position. Not having the sales tax included is a minor inconvenience. And really, not at all unusual for anyone that has ever bought something before at a store.
A store yes but again not a single other sports team
does this and the Cubs only did it to try to get money from the state.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
How is this them attempting to get money from the state???
I really have no idea why this is SUCH a big deal to you.
In short -
They started listing the amusement tax separately last year, and everyone around here wondered why.
This offseason, we learned why. They wanted to publicize the existence of the amusement tax, because they planned to ask the state to start giving it to the team.
I don’t think it’s a huge deal, but it does come off as kind of strange, especially for a family that spends millions of dollars on anti-tax attack ads.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Okay, so it's the connection to separating the amusement tax...
and asking to use the state amusement tax that’s such a big deal…
Got it. Still don’t care.
I sort of care....
“little” things like that can build up to a whole lot of mistrust. just sayin’
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I actually think separating it out fits with their political philosophy
I assume they separated it out because they don’t like that’s ticket money that they aren’t getting but is going to the State.
That's not quite correct.
They split it out because that’s the money they want to have used for Wrigley renovations.
The entertainment tax has been charged on Cubs tickets for decades. Until 2010, it was always included in the ticket price, not charged separately.
Go look at any ticket from 2009 or before if you don’t believe me.
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Nothing you say is false
My point was that if the State dropped the 3% tax and allowed the Cubs to add 3% onto the price of the ticket (not increasing the cost to the buyer at all) then you would have the money they are trying to get from the state. That’s the argument they were trying to make.
Of course just because they are charged a tax doesn’t mean the tax should go away or that they should get that money.
I understand the reasoning.
I disagree with it.
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Well, just looked at the White Sox
They charge $4..75 per ticket for a “convenience” charge as well.
They also don’t tell you how much each section costs before you click through to the next page. So, each team kind of has it’s quirks apparently.
I already reamed the Sox for the lack of pricing
info. They use a different service and it is a horrible way to present ticket prices.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Speaking of the Tax
Cubs.com – actually all MLB sites I think – have upgraded their UI for purchasing tickets. Gone is the confusing text about 12% and 9%. The new UI only says Service Charge.
They also dropped the number of tickets you buy to underneath each type of ticket. So the number of tickets is dynamic to that type of seat.
Enjoy!
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
The new interface...
… is similar to the one the Red Sox use.
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I noticed that
Which means I’m spending too much time looking at tickets…
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL
Look at this, a 400-comment thread on tickets.
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it's an off day...I hate when there's no game...thank goodness we have BCB :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Today isn't an off day.
There’s a game at 8:40 CDT. Pregame thread up at 6 pm CDT.
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
YAY!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions
nope the confusing 12% & 9% is there were it always was
just click past the second step and see where it explains the service charge. They have made some changes but that is still there, misleading as ever. It makes it seem like the service charge is basically a 21% tax. the better to make you pissed at the city/state and again it is not like they have not been told about this.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh that's silly
They cleaned up the UI and didn’t fix that simple like of text.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions
How many people
do you honestly think came in from out of town just for this game or for a vacation – on a Wednesday in April, when everyone knows the weather is iffy at best?
There will be absolutely no negative affect to the Cubs for this rainout and no disgruntled fans (other than the overblown complaining on BCB).
Wrong.
I am a STH and I go to a lot of games but this policy sucks. I do not schedule my life around these games I schedule them into my life. If I can not go to the game day they pick I should have a choice.
So
you will cancel your season tickets then?
by sanshokubento on Apr 28, 2011 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
No. I contacted the Cubs to voice my displeasure.
They offered to let me put the money toward another game of my choice.
Excellent.
Their policy is not different than most other teams, and they are willing to make exceptions for people who aren’t satisfied. So I don’t see where there is really an issue.
by sanshokubento on Apr 28, 2011 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Odd complaint from a STH
You want extra tickets to another game? As a STH I don’t really see how you can schedule games into your life given that you go to every game.
Ok, well if you sell your tickets you should be happy
You end up with a better date for this game.
As a STH you bought a pair (or more) of tickets for every game. Why should you be entitled to multiple tickets for a different game rather than the bargain you signed up for.
Season Tickets are NO bargin.
We get nothing except the privilege of post season tickets IF they make it. BTW I have Weekends and Night games. The night game was rained out last Tuesday and rescheduled for the next night. I did not have the luxury of several weeks (and better weather) for my rescheduled choice. Can you see how it might be hard for me to get to the game the next night if I already had plans.
It's not a bargain at all
Although, I actually think that being a nights and weekends holder is a pretty good deal, and I would do that in a heartbeat if they still offered it.
But, if you already have all of the nights and weekend games, why should you get a day game or tickets to another night and weekend game?
Ok
Here is what I am saying. As a season ticket holder you didn’t purchase X game. You purchased “every night and weekend” game.
If one of those games is re-schedule to another night or weekend, it’s still included in the package of “every night and weekend” game that you purchased. Now, if the game was re-scheduled for a weekday, then yes you should be able to exchange for a game of your choice.
All I’m saying is that as a STH you are not similarly situated to people that only bought tickets to a single game that was rained out.
Here is what I am saying
They publish a schedule before I purchase. I make plans to either attend or get rid of my tickets (sell them, give them away, or choose to not attend and eat the cost). If it rains and the game is rescheduled I feel I am entitled to some sort of choice. By mandating a specific game my choices are limited. And in the case of last week’s rainout I had less than 24 hours to change my plans.
I also feel that as a STH I should get better consideration as a better customer.
Well, I disagree
I’m a STH for another team in town. Granted, the team I hold ST for doesn’t have rainouts. But, I think you should get a ticket for each game.
But, if they have a policy allowing exchanges for non-STH I don’t really see why they couldn’t do it for STH too.
I do think the Cubs should give better consideration to their STH. I’m surprised they don’t give STH a discount or a pre-sale.
I think pretty much ANY Cub game has thousands of out of towners
Not that many plan a trip around that game but all are likely to be pissed.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
For out-of-towners
The cost of the ticket pales in comparison to the cost of the trip. The rain is really the main source of their displeasure, and not the ticket policy. Clearly the Cubs should have a better ticket exchange policy, but too much of what is in this thread is whining about a game getting canceled.
As I said not many folks going to the Wed game were likely planning
a trip around it. I have met a ton of business folks who are in town and have always wanted to visit Wrigley. Maybe they don’t care about losing $50 or more bucks but I imagine they know enough to realize what a bad policy this is. The reason you have such a long thread about a rainout is because the Cubs have a policy that is both stupid and counter productive. How many times to people have to point out that it would cost them NOTHING to offer seats to another weekday game and would in fact MAKE money by getting more bodies in the seats to buy stuff. It is indicative of their incredibly stupid & fan unfriendly policies that are turning off what had been one of the most loyal fan bases in sports.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Well that is not how it sounds
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Really?
The rain is really the main source of their displeasure, and not the ticket policy. Clearly the Cubs should have a better ticket exchange policy, but too much of what is in this thread is whining about a game getting canceled.
Except no one was wining about a game getting canceled
We were “wining” about how it was done and most specifically the fact that the Cubs were forcing fans to take tickets to another game they might not be able to use so you were just using a straw man there.
Please find me any post in which someone complained about the rain or thought the game should not have been cancelled.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I remember when we talked about the games
All posts now evolve into deep philosophical ramblings. Save for people who like !!!!!.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Apr 28, 2011 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually,
TJ didn’t use much in the way of !!!!! in this thread. This issue even caused him to break his usual persona.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
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by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 28, 2011 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Indirectly, yes people are whining about being inconvenienced by the game getting canceled
No matter what the policy the Cubs had, people would be inconvenienced by the rain-out.
Nobody is wining about the rain or the inconvenience
We are pissed that people who bought tickets are being forced to use them for a game they may not be able to attend. Nice try though.
Again for myself it is a non issue because as season ticket holder I have to buy all the games and it is actually better to have a game in June than April but for fans buying directly from the Cubs this a horrible policy that will turn many of them off.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 28, 2011 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, the STH above you is whining about it
He is mad about the game a couple weeks ago that was re-scheduled for the next night because he had plans for that night.
What? No its not.
SOME of the complaining is about the game getting canceled, but MOST has been about the return/refund/exchange policy
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Apr 28, 2011 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
In some ways a can or worms
In reading through the policies there seems to be logistics issues across the board.
Any ticket for the rainout should obviously be honored for that same seat at the rescheduled game and I assume the customer isn’t inconvenienced to make that possible. A refund should be an option for those who entered the gate on the rainout date. Something like proof the ticket was used to enter and a time limit to request a refund, say within 2 weeks. They might be able to resell some of those tickets if the rescheduled game is after the refund period ends.
Anybody who bought a ticket for a rained-out game, whether they entered the gate or not, should be able to exchange the ticket for a same or lesser priced ticket for another game subject to availability. I like the within 1 year time limit for that, but it could get messy whenever a lot changes from one season to the next. Whatever they can do within reason they should do so fans don’t feel ripped-off.
It isn’t the Cubs’ fault when it rains, but they should accommodate all of the paying customers with the makeup game or exchange options anyway. For refunds they shouldn’t have to gulp the cost for people who don’t show because there are always people who don’t show even when a game isn’t rained-out. It gets to be somewhat arbitrary when everybody isn’t accommodated but the policy should be clear and available to anybody who buys or inquires.
by AboutTheCubs on Apr 28, 2011 1:49 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Simplicity
If the Cubs made ticket exchanges available, and refunds available for some, along with the option to attend the makeup game, then they can’t resell the seat for the makeup game until after the ticket is exchanged or a refund issued. Some of the makeup games take place soon after the rain-out too; not always weeks or months later. At some point there is a business reason for keeping things simple. Though, I’m stuck on thinking that fans who show for a rain-out should be able to request a refund.
by AboutTheCubs on Apr 28, 2011 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Then they need to make a deadline for exchanges.
Say, maybe up to four weeks before game day. That’d give plenty of time to resell the exchanged ticket.
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Dallas Beeler
Pitched 3 perfect innings for Peoria last night. Left before the fourth with ‘injury’. He is Tweeting it’s a strained/pulled oblique. Could be worse, for sure.
How long, a few starts?
He was dealing for sure.
Nathan Balivia
guesses he will miss a start or 2. I always fear TJS.
Oh No They Didn't!
Cubs.com raised the ticket price of the now 6/27 game from a Bronze game to a Silver game. My $12 terrace reserve outfield ticket is now listed on cubs.com at $19.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
Now, if we wanted to talk about the Cubs screwing people on ticket prices...
If they sent everyone a bill for the difference in their package from bronze to silver for the make up game, THAT is screwing them over!
The tax on the tickets is an annoyance.
A bill with new tickets and a convenience fee = bank
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Definitely...
Taxes on the increase and a convenience fee for them having to send out a bill.
And make sure they charge for the postage too!!
I'm afraid to step back into that pond
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 28, 2011 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
What I want to know is what are those two people doing under that tarp?
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -J.R.R. Tolkien
omg, I thought I was the only one thinking that :)
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by cooliogirl47 on Apr 28, 2011 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Scoring of course!
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Apr 29, 2011 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions
what if you were to dispute the charge with your bank or credit card?
would there be any ground to dispute since you paid to see a game that did not take place?
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I would like to see the a rained out ticket be redeemable for any non sold out game of equal or lesser value. I think these were both bronze level games, so I would like to be able to use it for any other bronze level game. I do hold a ticket for the Rockies game that got rained out. I don’t know what I am going to be doing on June 27th. Let me use it for what ever game I choose.
Chicago Cubs - Arizona Cardinals 167 combined years and no rings
I guess I'm a masochist
We traveled over
400 miles to Wrigley on Tuesday . Saw the game and went back to the ball park Wednesday to see the last game of the series . I sure thought they would try and get the game in . By then it was a fine mist it didn’t seem to bother the fans . Once the game was called as we walked away the sun came out of a few seconds .
In fact we never got wet in our walk shopping after the game was called . Not a good trip to Wrigley for our group .
Although Houston doesn't have a policy due to roof...
I had tix to the Hurricane game that was moved to Milwaukee (The Z No Hitter). The Astros refunded my ticket price to my CC the very next day without request. Abnormal situation of course, but stil…was pleased not to have to fight for it.
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