Cubs Knuckle Under 5-1 To Red Sox, Tim Wakefield
BOSTON -- In the end, all the interleague visit that had been anticipated by thousands in Chicago and Boston accomplished for the Cubs was yet another series loss and more injuries.
That, unfortunately, appears to be the story of the 2011 season. The Cubs lost to the Red Sox 5-1 Sunday night and leave Massachusetts down a center fielder, an infielder/outfielder and with yet another pitcher missing a start (in fact, Matt Garza won't pitch in the upcoming Mets series; late last night it was announced that Ryan Dempster, Casey Coleman and Carlos Zambrano will throw in the first series of the upcoming homestand).
Sunday night was yet another familiar refrain: inability to hit with runners on base, although there weren't many of those to begin with (just five hits). Meanwhile, the Red Sox showed the Cubs how it's done; in the fourth inning, they loaded the bases with nobody out and scored (as it turned out) all the runs they'd need with a pair of sacrifice flies. How many times have we begged for even that and received nothing but double plays or strikeouts?
Before the game, there was a nicely-done ceremony honoring men and women from the US military, with a huge American flag covering almost the entire Green Monster in left field at Fenway Park. Perhaps Mike Quade could have called for pitching reinforcements from the military members lined up around the infield. It couldn't have been much worse than what actually happened.
Maybe there wasn't another realistic option, although Dempster could have been called on to start Sunday night on three days' rest. But Mike Quade's unhealthy obsession with James Russell came back to bite the Cubs once again. Not satisfied with three decent innings out of Russell, Quade decided to press his luck by leaving him in for the fourth, despite having an extra pitcher in the bullpen (Justin Berg, recalled to take Marlon Byrd's roster spot). This made little sense on its face, because Russell had thrown 39 pitches on Friday night and doesn't appear to have the stamina to be a starting pitcher to begin with.
John Grabow or Jeff Samardzija could have come in; instead, Russell started getting hit hard in the fourth inning and, essentially, that was it.
The Cubs offense looked pretty weak but this time, I won't necessarily blame them; Tim Wakefield's knuckleball was very, very good and it didn't appear that any team would have hit him the way he was dealing. Then, when Wakefield was lifted to a rousing standing ovation from Boston fans in the seventh, Daniel Bard entered the game. Bard can reach 100 MPH; compared to Wakefield's knuckler, he probably appeared to be throwing 200 MPH. Cubs hitters couldn't touch him, nor could they score off Red Sox closer Jonathan Papelbon, who made his only series appearance in a non-save situation. The entrance music for Papelbon, I have to say, is a little much, with a terrifying-looking Boston skyline on the video board and semi-drunken Red Sox fans singing along.
Marlon Byrd left the hospital with fractures in his face, a swollen-shut eye and the continued great attitude he always has. When Carlos Pena visited him in the hospital Saturday night:When Pena arrived at the Massachusetts Eye and Ear Infirmary, Byrd was sitting up slightly and able to talk.
"When I saw him, I took a deep breath and it was a relief," Pena said. "He was hungry. He said, 'I'm so hungry.' I said, 'Good.' I know when stuff like that happens, usually the last thing you want to do is eat.
"To see him conscious and cracking a smile, now I could relax a little."
Reed Johnson will have to fill in playing center field; presumably, Tyler Colvin will be recalled, although that's kind of pointless unless he gets playing time. Jeff Baker said after the game he'll be ready for Tuesday night, though he was limping pretty bad as he left with a left groin strain. And there was a scare in the seventh inning when Starlin Castro dived for a ball that he knocked down, then got up very gingerly. He stayed in the game and seemed fine, though.
I also didn't understand the warning given to Kerry Wood and both benches after Wood hit Jed Lowrie with his first pitch of the eighth inning. Why would you intentionally hit someone like that, trailing 5-1 in the late innings, when there had been no activity like that earlier in the game? It did not appear intentional. Why stir something like this up in the final game of a series with a team you won't likely see for at least three more years?
I still don't know what to think about what keeps happening to this team. At times -- the series in Florida, for example -- they look pretty good and you think, "OK, this is the start of a winning streak." Then they play like they did Friday night and rueful head-shaking is the only response. The Red Sox are clearly a very good team, despite their 0-6 start; they've now won eight of nine and stand only half a game out of first place in the AL East. Do the Cubs come out of Boston patting themselves on the back for "hanging with them"? Or begin to retool? Sticking close isn't a very good consolation prize.
The coda to this series was inadvertently written by a couple of somewhat inebriated Red Sox fans outside Fenway Park just after the game ended. Virtually every red-clad Bostonian was friendly and welcoming during this visit. These two decided, fortified by alcohol and the two wins, to heckle anyone they saw wearing Cubs garb. And so they began to yell, "Barton! Barton!"
Too nice and civilized, they didn't even get the name right.
But seriously, Boston, thanks for the hospitality and showing off your historic ballpark, even if the weather was mediocre (not your fault and it felt like home) and the seating legroom has my knees still locked up this morning. It may be a pipedream in this season that's fast swirling down the baseball drain, but the next time we see you, I'd like it to be some year in October.
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I lost all respect for Quade..
….playing beanball in retaliation for Byrd getting hit UNINTENTIONALLY is just inexcusable. I know other managers do it, but why stoop to their level? What does he accomplish? Someone could REALLY get hurt by playing this stupid game.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
It wasn't just Byrd
Fukudome was HBP in the top of the 1st on Saturday. Then Byrd was knocked out of the game in the top of the 2nd.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on May 23, 2011 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions
By a relief pitcher whose command was poor.
You really think those were intentional? I don’t.
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Intentional doesn't matter
I’ll admit, I was unable to see Saturday night’s game.
At some point Quade probably thought – “You hit Fukudome in the first. OK, poor command. Then you go back inside and knock out Byrd in the 2nd with one to the face? WTH? My guys are not punching bags here.”
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on May 23, 2011 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions
I repeat:
By a bullpen pitcher pressed into the rotation, whose command is poor.
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Maybe their HBP were unintentional
but ours weren’t. IDK. Just throwing that out as a possibility.
Fasten those seat belts...
What's worse?
Intentionally throwing at a player’s hip to brush him back from the plate? Or not being able to control your fastball and have it plunk someone in the eye?
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on May 23, 2011 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
The latter of course.
I’m all for the brush back.
Fasten those seat belts...
by katie casey on May 23, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
The end result is still the same
My teammate is going to the hospital and I don’t know if he’ll play again.
Do you really think the players said “Hey, it was unintentional. Sorry Byrd is going to the hospital. I’ll let this roll off my back.”
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on May 23, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Of course not.
My point is, it should have been closed business after Saturday.
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You have to let the games play out
Z did one on Saturday. Then the Cubs take a big lead. Not exactly the time to even the score, especially after Boston blew up in the 8th – that might be seen as adding injury to insult.
But Wood did that like a pro. On the butt, hit the meat. Let’s move on.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on May 23, 2011 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
no, there was still unfinished business
To borrow a quote from The Godfather… “You have to answer for Santino, Carlo.”
One fastball in the butt wasn’t enough for hitting Dome and sending Byrd to the hospital. Seeing as how the ump had issued a warning, it would have been stupid for the Cubs to finish the business on Saturday and risk suspensions. Wood did it right, which isn’t surprising. The fact that Z also did it right, kinda does surprise me, but pleases me as well.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on May 23, 2011 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Z does seem to have more self-control this year
It’s good to see and I hope he keeps it up.
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -J.R.R. Tolkien
Seeing as how the ump had issued a warning, it would have been stupid for the Cubs to finish the business on Saturday and risk suspensions
that’s vey insightful and really so simple…how do you figure that stuff out…oh yes, the movie reference :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on May 23, 2011 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow.
You obviously never played the game, so have you been a baseball fan for longer than 10 years? You do know that this is the way that the game is played, right? You know that had this NOT happened, there would have been serious loss of respect for Z from his teammates as well as from those around the league? And Wood was probably hitting Lowrie on purpose as well.
Likely this wasn’t Quade anyway. The manager shouldn’t have to order that. The pitcher should take care of it himself. That was EXACTLY the right response.
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run FOR Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
This...
Aim low and let it fly. I’m sorry the game has gotten so soft that throwing in retaliation is now frowned upon, but let’s be real here – the Sox put a Cubs player in the hospital with multiple facial fractures. They’re going to get hit once they step into that box – deal with it.
I’m not sure if anyone who ever played the game competitively would ever argue that it should be done any other way. Trust me, as an opposing player, you step into that box expecting one in the ribs.
"They’re going to get hit once they step into that box – deal with it."
See, that would make sense if the first batter of the game was hit. But it wasn’t, the game was 2/3 over.
You don't immediately retaliate.
You have to pick the right guy at the right time.
We'll all miss you Ron.
Yup.
As a pitcher, you try and pick a target commensurate with the crime. You hit my guy in the face, your best player is gonna wear one. And I’m gonna try and pick a time in the game that it doesn’t hurt my team. You brush back my slap hitting 7 hole hitter, I’ll probably ignore it.
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run FOR Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
Youkalis for Byrd
Lowrie for Fukudome
done deal to me.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on May 23, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
yup. Now its done.
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run FOR Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
if Byrd had not been hit 3 times this series, i would have viewed it similar to you
but he was hit 2 times in game 1 and then once in game 2. Got to protect your boys
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
Ditka's mustache can kill two stones with one bird
It is better to spend money like there's no tomorrow than to spend tonight like there's no money! - Irish toast.
Also did you see Quade point to the Boston dugout Saturday night....
…..and give the beanball score with his fingers (2-1, Boston)? Inexcusable.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
I don't mind Saturday night because it's a heat of the moment thing
But there was no reason for “evening up” last night after it was blatantly apparent that Byrd’s HBP was unintentional and all parties acknowledged it. It’s not Sox/Yankees, and even then, it’s not acceptable there either.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Kerry miss inside with the first pitch?
and then go back waaaay inside to hit Lowrie? Looked 1,000% intentional to me – and the ESPN crew saw it the same way. Not to say it was right or wrong, but the maybe the thought process was “Let’s even up the score now and put it to bed so we don’t have to unnecessarily carry things over the next time we play.”
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Wood's pitch was definitnely intentional.
If you’re that petty that you have to “settle the score”, settle it Saturday night. Byrd was an accident, not intentional, and did not need any sort of retaliation.
I disagree strongly.
As an ex-pitcher, that absolutely needed retaliation. The message that needs to get sent is, “If you are going to pitch inside to our guys, you don’t throw up in the zone and you better be sure that you don’t hit them.” Yes, I will acknowledge that hitting Byrd there was an accident. However, a big league pitcher doesn’t miss by 5 feet from where he is throwing the ball. That pitch was meant to be up and in, and ended up with a very unfortunate result. Neither Wood nor Z’s responses were overly dangerous. They were handled professionally. Now it’s done.
The Cubs still came out on the bad end of the stick here too, people. We have a starter on the DL for quite some time. They have 2 guys with sore ribs.
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run FOR Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
by Archie on May 23, 2011 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Should've been settled Saturday night if that is the intent
Otherwise you’re starting a new currency, the HBP.
Could it accrue interest? If we hadn’t retaliated last night, could that +1 HBP work itself up to 6 HBP the next time we play the Red Sox?
Could we get some free trade going, maybe we can give the Yankees the 1 Sox HBP and in return get 3 Mets HBP.
Exactly.
It should have been done on Saturday. To do it again Sunday — what’s the point?
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My guess is that 20 years ago
there would have been 2 Sox hit on Saturday. After Youk was hit, though, both benches were warned. Hitting another would have resulted in fines and likely suspensions. The score was not yet even. Wood just settled it the next day when there weren’t implications that hurt his team in the next game or 5.
Perfectly handled.
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run FOR Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
Hey, can they make an HBP exchange? Some pitchers might then buy up a bunch and finally push Youk off the plate with his armor.
by ubercubsfan on May 23, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm always amazed how he can hit with that batting stance.
Plus, he stands entirely out of the batter’s box. Why don’t the umpires ever call that?
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I've seen a 3-2 pitch where he crowded over the plate and got plunked.
Then as he was jogging to 1B, the umpire told him to get back in the box because he didn’t even attempt to move out of the way.
by ubercubsfan on May 23, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Again
Commensurate with the crime. They put a guy in the hospital. Woody is a VERY good teammate by all accounts. Hitting one guy doesn’t equal for two. And certainly not when you put him in the hospital. They didn’t hit Byrd in the ribs or the butt. That was in the face.
THIS RIGHT HERE is why I’m not a big fan of the DH. When I pitched, I knew that I was going to have to come up to the plate and face the opposing pitcher. That had a serious calming effect on any impluse to head hunt that I might have had.
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run FOR Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
Lowrie just has a bruised butt
And he didn’t even scowl at Wood when the first one missed. He knew the deal. His teammates knew the deal.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on May 23, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
I doubt it was for Fukudome
It was likely for the broken bones in Byrd’s face. Wood is a leader of this team, it would have been his responsibility to send that message.
I have PMS & a GPS -- which means -- I am a bitch, and I will find you.
by cub in louies nest on May 23, 2011 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions
maybe the thought process was "Let’s even up the score now and put it to bed so we don’t have to unnecessarily carry things over the next time we play."
Well, that would have been a bad thought process. These teams likely won’t play again for at least three years. I did not see it as intentional.
The national media likes to look at stuff like this as “intentional”, always stirring up controversy. It wasn’t.
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I sure hope it wasn't intentional, but we will never know 100% for sure.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Like I said - I think he missed inside on the first pitch
and then went back inside on the second pitch and hit him on the butt. Almost threw it behind him. Clearly intentional IMO…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
If you are correct, it was a very stupid thing to do.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
I disagree
Absolutely the right thing to do. He wasn’t trying to hurt him.
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run FOR Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
Are you going by what you saw live or have you seen it on TV?
It sure looked intentional on TV, even without the ESPN bobbleheads going on about it.
I can only say what I saw live.
I have not seen replays.
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I just watched it on the MLB-TV archive.
I can see why many would see intent, but I do not think the video is conclusive one way or the other.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Wasn't intentional?
Are you kidding me? There is absolutely no question that Wood hit Lowrie on purpose…and no matter what, don’t listen to the garbage about “trying to make my pitch”….that’s simply PR crap being told to reporters that don’t fully understand the game they are covering anyway.
In fact, Zambrano’s HBP on Saturday was also absolutely intentional…and both he and Wood did it appropriately….below the waist even if Zambrano’s went behind the hitter.
Guys, you have to understand that there is a much different code in professional baseball than in little league or high school or college or any recreational softball league you’ve ever played in. It’s different….much like the NBA when hard fouls get more flagrant as the season progresses. It is what it is….professionals policiing their game…not your game…their game and profession.
You can’t whine and shake your head all you want….it isn’t going to change how the game has been played for decades and it will continue long after we’re gone. Quite honestly, it was handled entirely correctly last night by Wood and by Boston for understanding why it happened and ending it right there. Boston is a classy organization run by classy people with professional players. They understood why it happened and that was the end of things which is how it works….whether you guys understand it or like it.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
by krummy12 on May 23, 2011 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
If Z's HBP was intentional...
… why bring it to the next game? Just so there were two on each side? That seems pointless.
The action was done on Saturday. Leave it there.
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Wrong point of view
Al, you’re looking at this from the point of view as a fan…not a professional player. It really doesn’t matter what fans think of how this is handled…this is exactly how it should be handled according to the “code” of professional baseball.
Lowrie was drilled because Byrd’s injuries were pretty severe. It was a message that one of the posts above hit right on the head…if you’re going to pitch up and in to our guys, you better make sure you don’t get irresponsible and injure them severely. Obviously Aceves wasn’t hitting Byrd in the face on purpose….but that doesn’t matter in this case.
Players don’t let other players take liberties with the safety of their own guys. And even if both of Zambrano and Wood’s responses were below the waist, they still send the same message….be more cautious with our guys.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
by krummy12 on May 23, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And don't forget about the benches being warned on Saturday too
The Cubs couldn’t hit another on Saturday without implications beyond that game. It was handled according to the code, and Boston’s reaction to it made it obvious that they understood as well.
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run FOR Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
Do you remember how long the Mets waited to get back at Roger Clemens when he hit Mike Piazza?
They waited until the meeting at Shea the following year, but Shawn Estes threw the ball behind Clemens. It doesn’t always stay within the same game.
It does not even stay in the same season
From my collection of Maddux stories.
Andy Benes was pitching for Arizona and plunked a Braves’ hitter. Cox told his men after the game, "Next time we play them, Benes better go down!" Well, the Braves didn’t play Arizona again that season or in the first weeks of the next. And one day Maddux walks into Cox’s office and said, "Still stand?"
Said Cox: "What are you talking about?"
Said Maddux: "That thing with Benes. Still stand?"
Said Cox, who’d forgotten such a edict was ever levied: "Damn right!"
First at-bat that night, Andy Benes ate dirt.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on May 23, 2011 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Absoultely perfect
rec’ed
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run FOR Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
The way I understood it....
…was that was towards the Ump, since he gave both benches warnings only after the Cubs hit a Bosox player, not after Boston had hit us twice.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 23, 2011 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions
IMO, the ump did the Cubs right by waiting until Z hit Youk to issue the warning.
Had he issued the warning after Byrd got hit, then any HBP by a Cub pitcher would have risked ejection & suspension. The ump knew that payback was warranted and he gave the Cubs the window of opportunity to do so.
Saturday night was classic textbook “how to play the game” by all involved. It’s too bad the Fox talking heads didn’t use this as an opportunity to educate a national audience.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I saw that too.
Until that point, I really thought each HBP was unintentional. Didn’t see last night’s so I can’t judge that one.
Fasten those seat belts...
The score was 2-1 at that point in the game, like the actual score of the game
Somebody pointed that out yesterday in the thread, so it could have been that. I’m not sure cause FOX blacked me out though.
We'll all miss you Ron.
You're wrong.
Quade was upset at the ump, and was showing him that he score was 2-1 and that there’s no way either team would be throwing intentionally.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on May 23, 2011 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
When we saw it we were debating what he meant.
Would have liked to have been able to hear him. I think it could have been either the score or the hbp count.
Fasten those seat belts...
by katie casey on May 23, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
He was pointing to the ump
after the ump issued the warning. Saying basically, “NOW you issue warnings?”
This is useless ripping of Quade just to rip an easy target.
by ForTheLoveOfBiitner on May 23, 2011 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
This year's team is a tad irritating and injury prone...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
A 'tad'?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
There is no British understatement font....
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
for the win ;-)
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -J.R.R. Tolkien
you could always throw in a "bloody hell" or two.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
What's irritating, and depressing
Is that the injuries might bail JH out again this year.
I don't see that happening.
This isn’t 2006, where we lost an MVP-caliber player for most of the season, plus Wood and Prior. We lost our No. 4 starter for six weeks and our No. 5 hitter — who would be a No. 7 hitter on good teams — probably for a month.
Maybe Hendry keeps his job, but I don’t think he will if the Cubs are bad with the injur excuse.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I don't know.
He was the only one who was quoted.
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This opens the door for some no team unity
whines?
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 11:57 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I doubt that the hospital
wanted a few dozen Cub players and staff trampling in and out of the hospital. That could get a bit bothersome for patiets and medical staff alike.
by ForTheLoveOfBiitner on May 23, 2011 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
He was released from the hospital Sunday morning...
…and flew home with the team.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 23, 2011 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions
I know that.
It just seems strange that only one teammate visited him. Dude got hit in the face with a fastball… if it were my teammate, I’d have headed to the hospital immediately after the game.
We don't know if anyone else did.
Only that Pena talked to reporters about it. Don’t make assumptions.
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Umm...
I will make assumptions. And I think it’s safe to assume that if others went, we’d know about it. Everything is reported these days.
See below.
Maybe Pena told the other guys he’d go and tell everyone else. Can you imagine 25 guys trying to crowd into a hospital room? Doesn’t work that way.
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Well no...
I don’t expect a bus load of players to go. Just surprised that only one of 24 visited him.
If others went you'd know about it??
What, did you get the tracking anklets on all of the Cubs players??
What a stupid thing to assume.
Well...
considering that entire articles were written about it, yes, I think if other players went they’d be quoted or it would at least be mentioned in the article. Do you not agree?
No, because the person didn't interview other players.
And why would the writer ask Byrd about other players at the hospital? He was talking to Byrd, not the team.
"... it keeps people guessing like a parlor game, but it prevents them from asking the most important question -- Why?"

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 23, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Or he was resting comfortably...
…the team got done late and were told he’d be released early Sunday, so they let him rest.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 23, 2011 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Still don't know what to think?
Just as you said the other day, Al, they have split the first 2 games of a 3-game series 10 or 11 times this year, and still have only won the 3rd game twice. They can’t hit with RISP, and they’re down to 3 reliable starters. That’s a sub-.500 team.
It's pretty bad when the ESPN guys are easily picking up on Quade's bad decisions.
Hersheiser kept talking about how Russell was being misused — though he was nicer in how he said it. And either he or Valentine noted how Russell could have used a mound visit in the fourth, for a breather, if nothing else.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
This is absolutely true.
In fact there was a moment there where it looked like Castillo was going to go to the mound and then he didn’t. Couldn’t figure out why, particularly b/c the next pitch got shelled and Castillo and Pena went to the mound after that.
Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008
Now a problem:
The mound visit schedule.
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 11:59 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Its been a problem all season
We have shitty coaches. Make light of it if you want. Just makes you look like more of a tool
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Mmmm classy...
A personal attack from some know-it-all on the internet without a single fact in the statement. Just the kind of stuff I’m here for.
Your argument is too strong, so I won’t bother with a counter. It’s tool-proof, and full of douche.
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
What about a know-it-all who won a Cy Young award?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I didn't hear his comment but...
given that the inning ended 2-0 maybe the mound visit is a “who gives a sh*t” type of thing? Sounds like Russell breathed.
Amazing.
So, you’re some baseball genius who knows more than Orel Hersheiser about PITCHING, but Nunyabidness is a know-it-all-on-the-Internet.
Hersheiser said “now’s a good time for a mound visit to give Russell a breather.” Cut to shot of Riggins standing at the top step.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
And then cut to inning over...
2-0…damage minimized.
But don’t let that get in the way of your mound visit rant…2-0 is one hell of a hole…Russell definitely probably couldn’t breathe.
Oh, give me a break.
Riggins seems like he’s afraid of leaving the dugout. Orel Hersheiser was right. But I guess you know more than a guy who pitched for 15 years.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
What did Hersheiser even say?
And where’s the implosion that resulted from this lack of mound visit? 2-0? Oh noooo…
I thought it was Valentine who made the comment?
And he said Russell had to back up the previous two plays, so he must be tired, and could use a mound visit. I don’t exactly think that’s the end of the world, but..
We'll all miss you Ron.
I thought it was Orel.
But even if it was Bobby … well, I’d say Bobby V. has forgotten a helluva more about baseball than SenorGato.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I'd say Mike Quade has forgotten more about baseball than ANYONE here has ever known.
Yet you all feel more than able to rip him apart for his baseball knowledge.
Funny how double standards work, isn’t it?
The problem is he doesn't seem to remember the right things.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
No, the problem is that you guys...
really like making giant holes out of absolute nothings. Mound visits? Seriously?
And you like to pretend that every mistake Quade makes is in a vaccuum
It’s not the mound visit (or lack thereof) its a symptom of a greater disease, which is poor managing
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Sounds like you're a
hypochondriac. It’s not that serious. A friggin mound visit doesn’t magic a solution.
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 3:13 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
So SG
Do you think Q is doing a good job managing this ball team? Or do you see room for improvement?
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course there can be room for improvement.
However, friends of mine that are Red Sox fans bash their manager after a loss, just like my Yankee fan friends that harp on Girardi about using the pen too much. You should listen to him complaining about how he just wants him gone and out of NY. The point being, ALL managers need improvement.
I'd say you have a point.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
And you do as well.
He’s made bad decisions, no doubt. But hindsight and a nice armchair make managing a team much easier :).
+1
I like this:
hindsight and a nice armchair make managing a team much easier :)
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
And I'd say that the mound visit thing is completely overblown...
but since the guys who work on ESPN said it…and they PLAYED professionally so who am I to question the important of a friggin mound visit…yuch.
yes but it is another example
of where Q could improve.
I’m not saying every little thing is his fault. But pretty soon little things start adding up and it’s a 1/4 way though the season
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
You know what adds up quicker
Things like injuries and poor talent.
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 3:24 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes, and when those things happen...bad managing makes everything that much worse.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
To be fair, there were studies (I believe by BA or BP)
That showed that in game management can, at most, account for 1 or 2 games difference over the course of 162 games.
To think that Riggins lack of mound visits, or Quades poor management is the reason we’re doing poorly is simply using a scapegoat for a very poorly constructed team, IMO.
Managers can't WIN games....
but the bad ones sure as hell can make it HARDER TO WIN games.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry, I should have been more clear...
the study showed the difference between “good” managers and “bad” managers actually managing in game was below 2 wins difference on average.
Obviously, nothing can really be done to study what is done out of game situations.
As do bad or injured players....
Which this team has…esp injured.
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 3:54 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Orel and/or Bobby ...
also talked about how the Red Sox were adjusting to Russell because they had seen his stuff once already, and making a clear distinction about relievers and starters.
Now, I don’t think the Cubs lost last night because of James Russell, and this was probably his best start. BUT … he allowed two cannon flyballs with men on base that ended up being sac flies. He shouldn’t be criticized for that, but the type of outs should be noted before giving Russell the Presidential Medal of Honor (as SenorGato appears to be doing).
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Lol you're acting as if those were rockets that...
Johnson had to work his ass off to get to. Sorry…cannons…they were well hit routine fly balls that happened to be deep enough to drive in the runs…Not a single thing for Russell inducing a flyball from one of the best RH hitters in the league (Youk) with no one out and the bases loaded? No, why should there be right? He blew our chances for victory by allowing the game to get all the way to 2-0….more yuch.
I was glad to see my favorite Cub
John Grabow make another solid appearance. Hendry must have known he would blossom as a reliever when he gave him $7.5 million.
How much nicer would Gorzo look now if the Cubs kept him in Spring Training rather than Grabow who they weren’t dumping due to the money owed?
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
To add salt to the wound
Gorzellany so far this year: 8 starts, 3.56 ERA and 1.167 WHIP.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
He's also getting extremely lucky...
He’s managed to give up only 19 ER while allowing 8 HR in only 48 innings. He’s the Alfonso Soriano of pitching. He gives up a ton of HRs, but apparently they don’t do much damage.
He’s apparently also the anti-Garza, because he’s got an unsustainable .227 BABIP. He’s also sporting an unsustainable 82% LOB%.
When that LOB% and BABIP rise, the 11.3% HR/FB ratio is going to come back to kick him in the ass.
He’s a 0.1 WAR player this year. Yes, 0.1. He’s got a FIP of 4.70 and an xFIP of 4.22.
Would he have been extremely useful in hindsight? Yep. But please, let’s not pretend like he’s tearing up the league. He’s gotten lucky on a lot of his stats and he’s going to fall back to earth.
I'm not pretending he's a CYA candidate.
However, if you ignored salary the correct Spring Training decision would have been to keep Russell and Marshall as the short lefties in the pen and Gorzo as the long man/6th starter. Grabow wasn’t necessary but at $4.8 million salary, the Cubs were not going to release him hence there was no room for Gorzo.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
What game were you watching?
Grabow gave up two weak infield hits, and appeared to be hitting his spots. The runs he gave up were because Wood couldn’t finish off Youklis, and hung a 1-2 slider over the heart.
I understand people being upset at what Grabow makes, but I sometimes think people copy and paste comments without thinking if they’re legitimately earned.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on May 23, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And that is the point.
For Grabow it was a solid appearance. Nothing special but adequate. Grabow would be fine if he was paid like a non-closer left-handed specialist who walks too many is paid. Of course, the Cubs are paying him as one of the highest non-closing relievers in baseball. Benoit has a larger salary but I’m not sure how many others make more.
I don’t blame Grabow. He would have been crazy to turn down $7.5 million.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
I think things could get very ugly very quickly.
The point that the Cubs looked good in Miami and then had a bad series — and that this seems to happen often — is no longer hopeful to me. For a while, we could hope that the good play would continue, that the bad play was the aberration.
I’m beginning to think that the opposite is true. That the good play is the aberration. That’s not to say that we’re necessarily going to lose 90-plus, but I could see it happening.
I truly thought Quade had the chance to be some sort of Cub whisperer after the strong finish last season. Now, I’m just hoping he’ll be adequate. I don’t think he has been so far.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I've been very disappointed by some of Quade's decisions...
… both in-game management and roster decisions, though I know the latter aren’t all on him.
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The best manager in baseball probably couldn't get a whole lot more out of this team.
That said, Quade’s been pretty bad. All the playing time for Hill, the Russell starts, the inability to juggle the outfield to get Colvin more playing time, a dozen bad game decisions … yuck.
I was in favor of hiring Quade over Sandberg. I’m not saying Sandberg could have done that much better, but I sure don’t feel great about my endorsement (FWIW).
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
We kind of all feared that people would clamor for Sandberg if Quade got off to a bad start.
Which has, in fact, happened. You’re right, it probably wouldn’t have made that much difference, unless Sandberg were willing to make decisions that Quade hasn’t made.
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We might be at .500 if we had a manager who made the right decisions.
But this team just isn’t that talented.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Soriano playing left field on Friday is what did it for me
Really Quade? And then back that up with another Russell start? I think we’ve lost every game he’s started but I’m too lazy to check.
The distinction has to be made:
Has Mike Quade been a good manager? No, not in 2011.
Would the Cubs be at the top of the division with another manager? No, not in 2011.
Oh, and in case there was any question, I agree with what you said. :)
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I wasn't expecting a division title either
I was just hoping they’d improve on their fundamentals at least and compete. Some of Quade’s decisions are justbizarre and Lou-like.
Honestly, they might be worse than Lou's decisions.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I agree with you.
Frankly, some of his decisions are jawdroppingly bad.
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and with Lou last year
I think some of his apparent dis-interest in the team came about because he knew it wasnt good to begin with and his two big sluggers werent performing so despite all the other moves he was making it didnt make a difference.
This year we are seeing a rookie manager make the same 2-3 boneheaded mistakes over and over and over
I'm sure we're more critical of Quade because the bad decisions are fresher in our memories.
But still …
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
that is the same line of thinking
I am having with the NBA Finals - if the Heat and Mav’s make it I am going to have a HARD time deciding who to root for – on one had I dislike, greatly, the Heat and LeBron; on the other hand I dont want the Mav’s getting the championship because I dont want to hear the “We got hosed when we didnt get Cuban as our owner” crap.
I'll root for anyone but the Heat
I don’t want Lebron to win a championship…EVER! Which is probably why Miami will win 8.
I think this team
could easily lose 90 games unless Ramirez goes on a serious tear - and now our most tradable guy gets thwopped in the head and ruins his trade value for at least 30 days.
I have been on the “We might be able to get back into contention if a couple guys heat up” bandwagon up until this last week – with crushing series defeats to the Reds and Boston I am firmly off of it. Let’s hope a big name or two doesnt sign in this year’s draft so we can nab them next year.
Well, if we're talking about Byrd's trade value ...
it IS May 23. Even if he’s out for a month, there’s time for him to rebuild his value and get dealt before July 31.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Maybe those Bosox fans were cheering for...

…..whose appearance would have been more exciting than this game.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
Who dat?
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
ESPN's excretable coverage
was appalling — lazy, cliche-ridden, unrelenting and extraordinarily biased toward the Red Sox. It was shameful.
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -J.R.R. Tolkien
Which is typical of ESPN's coverage.
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true, but this was beyond even the expected drivel
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -J.R.R. Tolkien
i didnt catch all of it...
but i think they had a spotlight on the talent that needed to be shown…Darwin and Castro. what else could they honestly say about the Chicago Cubs?
fukudome… end of a disappointing contract
Darwin…. he’s earned the praise
Castro….he’s earned the praise
Ramirez…end of a great cubs career
Pena…stop gap 10million dollar strikeout/HR machine
Byrd…got crushed in the face with a fast ball
Soriano….middle of a huge terrible contract where he cant play defense and is no longer fast and if you throw an outside slider he’ll swing at it.
Hill and/or Beef… Hill isnt exactly Espn news worthy (though he’s actually surprised me) and Beef’s production isnt demanding a spot as the starting catcher.
what was there to be unbiased about? the cubs had ONE good inning the entire series. an impartial commentator cant talk about this team without sorta crapping on them because that is the production they are putting on the field. also compared to a team that is gaining momentum, the Red Sox, sucked the first six games of the season but came together and are now playing winning baseball, its not hard to see why they were " biased" toward the Sox.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
I had the game on mute for part of the time ...
but the Red Sox are a much better team than the Cubs. What was there to compliment about the Cubs?
Like I said, I might have missed a lot of what offended you, but positive coverage about a good team versus bleh coverage of a bleh team … well, it’s not exactly shocking.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I could give a crap less about the bias
We’re a bad team. Play better and there isn’t as much bias against you.
I will agree with the cliche ridden and lazy comments though. I’ve never sat down and really listened to Bobby Valentine until last night, and I have to say I don’t think he’s particularly bright. I’ve heard people float his name as a possible replacement for various managers and I think his problem is, he actually has to…talk during the interview process.
They brought up 2003 like…seven times last night. FFS fellas, we get it you can farking move on.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
No...they wouldn't
There’s a reason he’s been unemployed for a while and he demonstrated at least part of that in his analysis last night.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Just curious, what analysts or PBP guys do you like
I’ve only heard about everyone you hate (which is typical of your style)… Valentine, Santo, Moreland…
We'll all miss you Ron.
Well, I've never said I hated Moreland first off
(though you getting something wrong is generally your style)
As far as PBP guys, I like Pat Hughes and I don’t mind Len Kasper (when he’s actually calling the game and not trying to talk music or style). I like Gary…something, the guy who does the Orioles games. I like Vin Scully.
I like the KC Royals radio guys.
I’m not a big fan of today’s PBP guys. I’m a much bigger fan of the old school guys who understand that the game is the entertainment and they don’t need to act like a clownshoes cheerleader in order to make the game interesting.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Well this comment leads me to believe you dislike him...
They could put a screeching child in the booth and I wouldn’t miss Ron. But Keith appears to be a MASSIVE sunshine pumper
I seem to remember something involving Moreland being as boring as a librarian or something along those lines too.
We'll all miss you Ron.
Well, from what I heard, he HAS been a massive sunshine pumper
At least at the beginning of the season. Al was a MASSIVE sunshine pumper too, doesn’t mean I hate him. Emphasis on WAS.
It’s interesting you use a quote where I made no mention of disliking Moreland to backup your point.
And if you can find the librarian quote, so be it. But I’m fairly certain I never said that, because I honestly don’t listen to the radio that much.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Well the shear nature of the comment implied dislike
But if you say you don’t dislike Moreland, than that is fine, it’s really a non-issue. It just seems every single announcer everyone seems to complain that they’re idiots, biased, and don’t have a clue what they’re talking about. That’s not specifically on you, just something I’ve noticed on the blog in general.
We'll all miss you Ron.
That's because there are A LOT of bad announcers out there
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't why this is hard to understand
or you expressing this makes you out to hate everybody…
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on May 23, 2011 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
i think that feeling is coming because
we just came out of cincy where unless you got the cubs feed you had to listen to the idiot family in cincy.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Well Brenneman... that's just... that's not even fair...
he’s just the absolute worst…
We'll all miss you Ron.
By unemployed you mean...
managing overseas learning about the rest of the world’s baseball as he moved into the 21st century and then taking a job as a commentator here. Didn’t he turn down a managing job this offseason too?
Don’t let any of that get in the way of you being right though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Valentine
Bobby is still working with ESPN for the 2010 MLB season. He was interviewed for the Baltimore Orioles managerial position after Manager Dave Trembley was fired in early June, Valentine later withdrew his name from consideration. Valentine was considered a front runner for the Florida Marlins Managerial position that opened after Manager Fredi Gonzalez was fired in late June. However, Valentine has confirmed he is no longer a candidate for the position after the Florida Marlins owner, Jeffrey Loria stated that Edwin Rodriguez, the interim manager they summoned to replace Gonzalez, will manage the team through the 2010 season.5 With the firing of the New York Mets Manager Jerry Manuel at the end of the 2010 season, Valentine has been speculated by the local New York sports media of returning to the team. It was also reported that the Toronto Blue Jays and Seattle Mariners have also interviewed Valentine for their open managerial job.
Valentine was interviewed by the Milwaukee Brewers for their managerial opening in October 2010. He is believed to be a finalist along with Bob Melvin, Joey Cora, and Ron Roenicke.6 The position eventually went to Angels bench coach Roenicke.
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
this is why he isn't in Japan anymore
However, he was fired abruptly due to the personal conflict with general manager Tatsuro Hirooka,1 despite having a two-year contract.
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm sorry are you really framing having to be in Japan because no major league teams would hire him
as him “learning about the rest of the world’s baseball?”
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes.
Baseball is as international as it’s ever been, and it’s going to get bigger if things go well. Guys like Bobby V just might have a place in that future if they want it.
Also, it doesn’t seem like ML teams lost interest in him…there’s like 6 teams listed in Madison Cub Fan’s wiki link.
Did they hire him?
I never once said he wasn’t getting interviews. In fact I conceded he was getting interviews hence my “I think his problem is, he actually has to…talk during the interview process.”
I think its pretty hilarious you think Bobby CHOSE to manage in Japan rather than the majors. That is some Ari Fleischer type spin right there.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
SG
Did you not read what I put?
He got INTERVIEWS with them. But was only offered ONE job. He wasn’t offered any of the other jobs they were given to other people.
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
You can have this point...
Though 5-6 interviews and a job offer…after playing delegate to the uh…next frontier…is hardly anything to sneeze at.
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 4:40 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Playing Delegate?
You have a really weird view on his time in Japan. It’s not like MLB got together and said “man, Bobby is a fantastic manager and he should be running the team of his choice right now, but we need him to be a bastion of hope for future over in Japan.”
You seem to develop crushes on certain players and managers
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 24, 2011 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Im sorry
but Japanese baseball needs to be seen as AAAA – see Fukudome, Matsusaka, Murton, etc… they just play a completely different style of baseball over there
There's one
so clearly you completely shot his argument down
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 24, 2011 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
How about Matsuzaka has a career ERA+ of 108
And a 9.7 WAR over his first 4 seasons?
Uh oh, your argument suddenly doesn’t look so good.
What argument was I making?
I was pointing out that Ichiro doesn’t disprove his comments. I never made an argument
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 24, 2011 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Ah, it was Hansman.
My bad for not checking who made the actual first post.
Exactly. The repetition was the worst.
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -J.R.R. Tolkien
I feel sorry for the Cubs fans
that traveled all the way to Boston just for this particular game. Hearing that it was to be treated at a “spring training” game had to be infuriating. I went to a game once under Lou’s regime that he basically conceded and I was pretty mad. Not fair to the people buying tickets at all.
Fasten those seat belts...
the sad part
is that if the offense showed up last night – at all – it would have been a close game. Russell did an excellent job.
If the offense had shown up at all ...
and if Quade hadn’t let him pitch as long as he has, we would have been in the game.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Horrible grammar.
I’m not awake yet. Apologies.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Then we'd be the Chicago ZombieCubs
And no one would want to play against us.
The team already appears to eat brains
That is the only possible explanation for what happens to managers and GMs….
lol
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on May 23, 2011 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions
brains are all we ever get! why cant we have a change of pace!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5Id4yFfhMg&feature=related
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Well...
… I don’t know how many attended only this game. Most people I know who traveled to Boston (like me) came for the entire weekend.
Nevertheless, managers and GM’s shouldn’t concede any games. That makes, now, five conceded with Russell starting. There’s no guarantee that the games would have been won with any other substitute starter. But clearly, playing real MLB games this way is a nearly guaranteed loss.
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When our family goes to see them on the road
we’ve always just picked one game so I was thinking along those lines. I don’t think I’d be able to convince the rest of them to go to more than that.
Fasten those seat belts...
Conceded is unfair
Russell pitched better than you would have expected last night and you still can’t give him any credit.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on May 23, 2011 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Russell pitched well for three innings.
That’s all you could have expected out of him, especially after 39 pitches on Friday night.
So — why not get him out of there after three? That’s on the manager, not the pitcher, admittedly. Quade should know that Russell can’t give him four innings.
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But that's not conceding the game
That’s just making a mistake.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on May 23, 2011 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Which, essentially, concedes the game.
It’s known that Russell blows up after three innings. It’s happened in several starts before. Why do it again?
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No, you're moving the goal post here
First – Russell starts = concede the game.
Now – Russell after 3 innings = concede the game.
Russell was weathing the storm and Quade was trying to see if he could get a little more out of him. That’s not conceding a game.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on May 23, 2011 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions
No, you're missing my point.
Quade seems to think Russell can go four innings. That, essentially, concedes the game. If you limit him, maybe you have a shot — but Quade seems unwilling to do that with Russell.
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Misperception is not conceding the game
I’m sure Custer thought he could win at Little Big Horn.
That sounds like an award – the Little Big Horn game of the Year.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on May 23, 2011 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions
And Custer was wrong about that
What Quade is doing is like fighting Little Big Horn, over, and over, and over hoping THIS TIME it will be different. That’s the problem.
Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008
The reason it's conceding the game
is because not only is Russell not a starter, it brings out our middle relief, which isn’t that good.
Also, it potentially damaging do the latter part of the bullpen. This team hasn’t got many quality starts, so it ends up having a adverse effect on the bullpen.
"It's easy to do what's ordinary, it's difficult to do what's deemed impossible -- I guess that explains why my life is so hard, because nothing is impossible for me"
It's not like he wanted to use Russell as a starter
He used Rusell due to a lack of better/available options.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on May 23, 2011 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Which is exactly the excuse they have used every single time Russell starts
Which has been what now? Six, seven times?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
True...
They should have looked into the vast amount of arms available on the trade and FA market who could come in here and deliver the goods immediately.
This is what I find hilarious about your arguments
You need to pick a side. Either Russell is better as a starting pitcher than people are claiming, or he’s simply the best of a bad situation.
Which is it?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions
That's the either/or?
How could that not possibly be both? He’s certainly gotten better in his starts…and they’re certainly not going to send out any of the garbage they have in AAA until Jackson decides to get his act right…
I considered it conceding
from the point when Garza was scratched and Quade said "The options tomorrow are everybody. “It literally could be a Spring Training type of game, where a couple here, a couple there.”
That’s when I decided to go to the movies instead.
Fasten those seat belts...
Exactly
It’s like tossing it in the air just to see where it lands. He knows the outcome won’t be good, but heck, lets do it anyway.
I have PMS & a GPS -- which means -- I am a bitch, and I will find you.
by cub in louies nest on May 23, 2011 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions
That's exactly what I thought
He got out of minor jams in the first three innings. I walked away to take care of some things when he took the mound in the fourth, partially because I knew he’d give up runs. When I came back it was 2-0.
AL, how much did you pay for your tickets?
I couldn’t find any decent seats for under $100 so I didn’t go.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
I paid face for my tickets when they went on sale.
$55 for grandstand, $75 for the LF pavilion.
In hindsight, I should have shelled out $90 for box seats. At least my knees would be happier today.
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Al, so what did yo think of the whole Fenway experience?
Namely, the renovations to the ball park itself and the surrounding area outside the ballpark.
Are the main concourses similar to Wrigley (narrow and dark)? Do the seats seem colser to the field than newer ballparks? you know, stuff like that.
Thanks.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on May 23, 2011 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions
The seats are cramped and small and the aisles are very narrow.
Concourses are at places very narrow and they seemed dark.
But, the place is very intimate. Except for the seats behind posts, all the seats have decent to good sightlines and feel close.
Security is unobtrusive but always there. They make a point about putting the “fan code of conduct” on the message board, and though people do drink there, there are almost no beer vendors and the narrow aisles make it difficult to get up continually to get beer. Thus, less drunken idiot behavior. The Cubs need to learn a lesson from this, if nothing else. Red Sox fans go and have a good time, but their main motivation is to have fun and see baseball, not just get drunk.
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And that's the rest of the story.
The Cubs have tried to sell “the Wrigley experience”. But you cannot do that without a winning team.
The Fenway experience was, and is, great. But the Red Sox can sell that because they have made the playoffs seven of the last nine years and have two WS titles in that time.
You can’t market losing.
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They sell themselves as "The Lovable Losers".
People still come to the games win or lose it seems.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
That has been the case.
Not so much, anymore.
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Selling less beer = making less money
The Ricketts won’t do that, at least until the bank line is paid off.
I was at Fenway about 20 years ago...
Standing room, obstructed view, and a German colleague, who had never seen Baseball before. I had a wonderful time, but if we hadn’t trickled down, my feet would have been killing me.
It was, I think, this game.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Wow, it was that easy to get tickets?
I would have thought they would have been sold out months ago.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
They were sold out months ago
he bought them the day they went on sale. There was no guarantee, but just like the Cubs’ first day of ticket sales, you can try to get through.
No one should be untouchable on this roster unless his name is Eliot Ness...or Starlin Castro.
And, oddly enough...
… some tickets were released the day of the game, each day this weekend.
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...
I still don’t know what to think about what keeps happening to this team. At times — the series in Florida, for example — they look pretty good and you think, “OK, this is the start of a winning streak.” Then they play like they did Friday night and rueful head-shaking is the only response.
This is precisely what bad teams do.
Or, at least, mediocre teams.
This isn’t the worst Cubs team I’ve ever seen (the 2006 squad holds that honor, followed closely by the 2010 squad in the last days of the Lou era). But the 2011 team isn’t good.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Yup. I turn 31 on Friday.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
The 1980 and 1981 teams were far worse than this.
The only one that’s been close is 2006. The 1981 team would have set the team record for losses if not for the strike.
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Agree 100%...
‘80, ’81, ’82 and ’83 were horrendous. That’s what made ’84 so cool…right up to games 3, 4 and 5 against San Diego anyways.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
Follow up...wow...
I just checked…those 4 teams were a combined 97 games UNDER .500 at 246 – 343…and 59 games were erased due to the strike of ‘81, so, you could figure they’d have lost probably 35 of those as well. And we think this year’s team is bad?
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
Even though I grew up with 60s and 70s horrendous teams
Somehow, people forget 1997. That isn’t that long ago. That squad went 0-14 to start the season. Even the crappy teams of my youth never did that.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on May 23, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
That team was terrible.
But they did get some pieces for the 1998 run late in 1997: Lance Johnson and Mark Clark. And got rid of Brian McRae!
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
I can handle a bad team...i'm 30 i've seen a few...
but what i cant handle is the payroll we have and the record we have…that’s what makes it so intolerable.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
'82 and '83 were bad...
… but you could clearly see improvement from the ’80 and ’81 levels.
Those teams were atrocious.
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Damn, el...you're still a pup...
I thought you were all old and broke down like me. Enjoy your 30s, cuz they turn into your 50s in a blink of an eye ; )…and following this team makes ya get older alot faster.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
I hear that, Ed.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
That is good advice to enjoy your 30's.
I’ve been enjoying 39 for quite awhile now. Happy Birthday.
Fasten those seat belts...
by katie casey on May 23, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Thank you.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Happy Birthday!
And I agree with you completely re: Cubs teams and their badness (I’m 32) :)
Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008
Thanks. :)
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Happy birthday elgato!
30s and 40s were my favorite decades (so far), which means you have many years of happiness ahead :-)
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -J.R.R. Tolkien
Happy bday
I’m ahead of you by about 5 1/2 years. I’ve always been jealous of summer bdays… as I think is so cool to have your bday mentioned on air.
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
you can just make one up...
“The cubs want to wish MCF a happy birthday, today july 23rd”
MCF in the background laughing because its not really the correct birthday
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Happy Birthday!
I’m behind you 12 years. Hope the Cubs have a couple WS trophies when i’m 31
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
this team was playing with a thin margin for error
prior to the injuries. Now, with an eroding roster, you have a recipe for losses. The team is losing pretty much every series, clearly not a contending team so I think you just hope the young players develop, no one gets seriously injured and look forward to next year.
I will say that I hope Cubs Management (looking at you Hendry) reads the WSJ article from last week regarding teams out of contention early in the season because there is going to be a strong temptation to spend our money in the offseason adding home run hitters given the lack of power in this lineup. This would be a mistake in my opinion to make this the focus. The example in the article regarding the Royals is very fitting for the Cubs. Last year the Royals had a high BA but finished near the bottom in runs scored. They changed the team’s persona and became more aggressive, developed an identity and now are scoring more runs and winning more games. The Cubs offense needs an identity, and adding a couple of HR hitters ain’t the identity that will win games.
The Cubs offense needs an identity, and adding a couple of HR hitters ain’t the identity that will win games.
Actually, it will, if you can combine that with guys who can get on base. The “aggressive”, “get a fast guy” mentality that you have posted about before isn’t the kind of team that fits in Wrigley Field, which is a home run hitter’s ballpark.
We just don’t have any home run hitters any more. Alfonso Soriano, who led MLB at the end of April with 10 HR, has not hit one since May 2. The Cubs have 33 HR as a team; the MLB average is 40 and the Reds lead the NL with 52. Even league-average HR hitting would have generated more run-scoring, and, presumably, wins.
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Ramirez with 1 homerun is probably the most surprising stat for this team.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
And many of Soriano's home runs were garbage home runs.
Or, at least, not all that valuable because they were solo shots.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Al, I agree Wrigley is not ideal for burners
My main point really is that I hope that the Cubs don’t pull a 2009 and become fixated on adding home run hitters like they did getting left handed bats after the 2008 playoffs. Yes, we need power, but to add guys that can hit 25-30 home runs who can’t field or run I’m not sure is the answer here. With guys like Castro and Barney you can start to build an offense with a promising identity. I’d like to see a team that can get from first to third on a basehit, field competently and execute fundamentals. Half our lineup can’t even advance a runner from 2nd to 3rd with noone out.
That is the identity I would like to see.
by BeltwayCubsFan on May 23, 2011 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions
The 2009 "fixation"
… was wrong, and then they picked the wrong guy on top of it.
You’re right about being fundamentally sound. But don’t assume that a power hitter “can’t field or run”.
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The fixation wasn't wrong.
The problem was the implementation. The Cubs could have gotten more left handed — and should have, IMO — without signing MB or Aaron Miles.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Concersely you can't ignore homeruns
With Castro and Barney as starters, there are already two positions where you won’t get homeruns. The Cubs need some from somewhere for balance. They aren’t playing in the old astroturf Royals Stadium where you win with extra base hits and speed.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
again, you are overweighting astroturf
yes, it matters for balls hit in the gap, but i hardly see what it has to do with a guy advancing from first to third on a single, laying down a bunt for a hit or yes, occasionally stealing a base.
by BeltwayCubsFan on May 23, 2011 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed but a balance is needed.
The Cubs have 4 starters who have combined for 4 home runs. In this era, no one can win with that. Castro and Barney can provide speed. Someone has to provide power.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
Quade does not look like a big league manager
if he doesn’t finish 24-13, there’s no way he’s even in the discussion, our GM hired him based it on that fact. You can’t tell me Quade was the most qualified man for this job? By the way, enough of the Essian clap from Quade and the constant reference to each guy’s nickmane. Such a minor league feel.
This whole organization is a mess, how the hell Ricketts can believe in all these people is beyond me.
Dude...
no one is winning with this team. Go ahead and hire a resurrected version of Earl Weaver…it’s not going to make this team significantly better. He’s also not going to do it perfect every single night. That’s not how this stuff works.
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
the team might not get MUCH better
but maybe a little better.
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm still waiting for him to it perfect
on a SINGLE night.
The guy has made a ridiculous gaffe almost every game. He’s a bad manager. Bad team or not, he makes it worse
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Who the fuck is perfect on a single night, ever?
Even then, I highly doubt you’d actually give him any credit anyway.
Perfect in this situation being not making mind blowing mistakes? Just going one game without a "WTF?" moment?
I’d say there are quite a few.
And you’re wrong about the credit.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure if you've noticed but...
the players haven’t played that well. That’s going to create wtf moments, because players are the ones who are on the field to execute.
This is absolutely true.
The middleground is that Quade’s been bad and the players have been too. If the players were better, Quade’s goofiness — starting Castillo against a knuckleballer? starting Soriano in left at Fenway — wouldn’t look so bad because the team would be better.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Wait, now starting Castillo is frowned upon here?!
Ugh… my head hurts.
We'll all miss you Ron.
by alkappy on May 23, 2011 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
'against a knuckleballer'
Castillo should be getting more playing time. But it was ridiculous to start him last night as opposed to Friday or Saturday.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Tim Wakefield is a 40 year old pitcher with a 5+ ERA the past 3 years...
He’s been getting rocked. This was an opportunity for Castillo and the whole lineup…and they didn’t take advantage. Once again, Starlin is the only one who didn’t embarrass himself and even then it took a couple tries…
Maybe if you demonstrated reading comprehension
your head wouldn’t hurt so much
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe if your comments had substance
I wouldn’t want to shoot myself in the face every time I read one.
We'll all miss you Ron.
Maybe if you could demonstrate reading comprehension, you'd see the substance
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
both of you grow up
what are you both like 12?
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry Mom
Do I still get my Kool-Aid?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
All we have in the house is milk and grape juice
But if you want to ride your bike to the store and pick some up you can LOL
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
These guys literally have no idea what they want...
Castillo getting a start against a pitcher with a 6 ERA over 3 years, no mater how fancy his pitch is, was fine.
Soriano’s played LF at Fenway before…he’s the only one on the roster I know for a fact has played in Fenway at all…but there’s complaints about that too…What these guys don’t get is that the oooooooooooooonly f’n reason they’re complaining is because the team is losing…and the team is losing because the players really aren’t all that good and worse is that alot of guys are having bad years.
The manger has created too many wtf moments with his choice of which players to put on the field in the first place.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Rotfl...
of our pool of superstars?
How deluded are you guys here? Seriously…Wtf d’you guys think this team was?
wow...you don't get it at all.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
True, with your clear, well reasoned, and elaborate explanations...
there’s no reason for this either. I don’t get me.
It has been explained
you choose to ignore the explanations.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
HE WAS BEING SARCASTIC
OR FACETIOUS, TAKE YOUR PICK.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on May 23, 2011 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
That argument would hold water
If I wasn’t saying “WTF?” before the player even executes( or fails to execute) in the situation he was placed in. Yes, this roster is not good. I’ve never ONCE argued that it is.
Mike Quade makes things worse by making piling bad decisions on top of bad play.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Because it's easy to make good decisions when everyone's playing poorly...
makes sense, I’m sure, to most here.
I don't know why I'm continuing this argument with you
but “playing poorly” has very little to do with Quade’s biggest WTF moments.
I still go back to a game where Quade put Baker in as a PH…against a righty..when Baker’s shoulder was hurt…in the ninth inning when a base hit would have tied the game. I believe we had runners on 1st and 2nd with one out. WHEN HE PUT HIM IN I said “why the hell is Baker going in for this situation?” Baker promptly grounded into a double play to end the game.
Baker sat out the next game due to his shoulder injury, an injury he suffered the game BEFORE he pinch hit.
It was a dumb move.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Ah...
He should have put in Jason Heyward.
Oh wait…that’s right…that guy is on a different team….maybe he could have put in super stud LH hitter X on our roster…you guys know him…THE GUY WITH THE FACE!! Come on!!
If you think that poor player has “very little” to do with how Quade looks, then maybe we really shouldn’t be having this discussion.
He could have put in Blake DeWitt
It’s not that hard. It’s really not. You put players in situations to succeed.
Why you don’t understand that…
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
And if Blake DeWitt ground into a DP the torches woulda been out just the same
We'll all miss you Ron.
Not from me
Because at the very least it would have been the best choice for that particular situation.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
You're beig serious?
Blake dewitt? Yuuuuuuuuuuuch. WTF difference is that? The side of the plate thy hit from? Man
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 3:38 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
You're beig serious?
Blake dewitt? Yuuuuuuuuuuuch. WTF difference is that? The side of the plate thy hit from? Man
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 3:39 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm also pretty sure Baker was swinging the hot bat at the time (even against righties)
And his shoulder was fine because he had some days off, then he aggravated it during the swing.
We'll all miss you Ron.
Well, you're wrong.
He hurt it the day before.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
If that is true my mistake then.
I was going purely off memory, but that doesn’t mean you know how he felt or the seriousness of it (I’m guessing he felt 100%). And it doesn’t change how he was swinging to that point.
We'll all miss you Ron.
yes it does he was hurt!
How would that not change how he swung the bat during that game?
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh for the love of god
You’re right. Despite being hurt the day before to the point where he didn’t start that game, and despite the fact that he was hurt enough that he didn’t play in the game after and the stated reason was that his shoulder, the shoulder he hurt two days prior was injured…despite those facts in evidence, I can’t say with 100% certainty that he was hurt at the exact point in time when he went to bat. I can only cite common sense.
You what though? It doesn’t matter whether he was hurt or not. It would STILL have not been the best decision because over the course of his career, Baker has struggled against righties.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Just because he doesn't start doesn't mean he's injured
Maybe you haven’t noticed he’s not an every day starter
We'll all miss you Ron.
THEY SAID HE WAS FREAKING INJURED
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
So...you're truly trying to claim
that he was hurt..then healed..then hurt again. All in the span of three days?
That seems more likely to you than assuming his injury was ongoing?
Get over the fact you don’t like me, and embrace common sense.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions
IT WAS SHOULDER SORENESS!
That is literally the definition of an injury that can be perfectly fine the next day.
We'll all miss you Ron.
Can you feel fine and re-aggravate something
I think the stupider conclusion is that Q said “Hey Baker, how ya doing” and Baker “Said, my shoulder feels like crap coach!” and Q said “Get out there anyway!”
We'll all miss you Ron.
Holy shit you're being dense.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
We aren't talking about a hypothetical. This actually happened.
And Baker WAS injured.
This isn’t a disputed fact pattern.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
it is b/c in make believe world he would have been ok
Damn none of you are getting popsicles!
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I feel like calling shoulder soreness an "injury" is misleading in the first place
We'll all miss you Ron.
He was taken out of the prior day's game with a shoulder injury.
It’s not like he woke up on the wrong side of the bed.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
And that "injury" was shoulder soreness
which means it kinda hurts and that nothing is structurally incorrect.
We'll all miss you Ron.
He was hurt
feel better now? He still shouldn’t haven’t been used. He was “hurt” enough that he was pulled out of the game prior, and sat out the following game.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I feel like almost every "injury" related to the Chicago Cubs in the past decade has been misleading in the first place.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I feel like you're arguing a point not because you actually believe it
but because you can’t stand someone (or just me) criticizing Quade’s decisions.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I actually believe that no manager
would ever send somebody with a serious issue out to play.
We'll all miss you Ron.
I'm not saying his arm was falling off
I’m saying he was hurt. He was hurt enough that it wasn’t an intelligent decision to use him.
And we’re officially going round and round. I’m done.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions
serious question...didn't Lou send DLee (thumb, I think)
and ARam, (shoulder still sore?) out all last year hurt or not fully recovered anyway? didn’t we find that out at the end of the season?
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on May 23, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
To be fair... I'll argue that if Baker wasn't injured he'd have been the right choice.
This year he has hit .256/.293/.359 against righties, which is certainly underwhelming.
You are claiming he should’ve put Dewitt in, whi is hitting .206/.229/.294 against righties this year.
There’s plenty of reasons Baker shouldn’t have hit in that spot, but advocating DeWitt was the right choice is also a move that is equally as bad.
BUT he was INJURED!
If I had been born a boy instead of a girl maybe I could have played baseball is about the same as if he wasn’t injured maybe…………..
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
You're missing my point...
He brought it up saying, “even if Baker wasn’t injured, DeWitt was the better choice.”
I was pointing out that wasn’t true.
Yes, if you use the small sample size of JUST this season
But Baker, over the course of his career has been bad against righties and he’s coming off a season in which he actually got MUCH WORSE against them.
DeWitt isn’t great, but over the course of more than the 20 something games, he’s better against righties than Baker.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
But we're playing games this year...
And DeWitt is unbelievably bad and Baker is just pretty bad.
You play the luke warm hand, so to say.
So...you NEVER look at prior performance?
I don’t EVER want to see you claim someone is using a small sample size.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course you look at prior performance.
But you have to look at recent performance too…. it’s a balance of both, not either or.
Just because a guy has been good in the past doesnt mean is he is automatically the best option – that guy could be in the middle of an 0-15. Yes, over the course of his career you may take him for that spot, but you have to weigh what has happened recently as well.
Also, assuming I never look at past performance based on saying...
You play the guy that’s hot over the guy that’s cold.
Is exactly the kind of jumping to conclusions you do that is obnoxious as all hell.
I didn’t say that, and you’re putting words in my mouth and telling me what I can do in the future. This isn’t a very good way to hold a discussion.
personally,
I don’t believe Ricketts is a true fan (Cubs fan or sports fan) casual fan, yes. Yeah, he wants to make money, but he’s running the Cubs like any corperate owner would, not like a diehard Cubs or sports fan. He’s not doing anything wrong business-wise, he’s just not as interested in the WS.
9% drop in tickets wasn’t as high as I thought it actually would have been. They’ll blame it on the weather and stay the coarse.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on May 23, 2011 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't believe that.
It’s been well documented that Ricketts was a Cubs fan for awhile. He loved the Cubs so much that he wanted to buy the team. Things just haven’t worked out so far. I don’t think you can hold it against us fans for expecting/wanting things to change the second he became the owner. Things will change, eventually. The thing is, eventually sucks, we want change now.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
I absolutely buy that Ricketts is a phony fan.
He’s not from Chicago, he went to games in college or grad school when he was at U of C (yawn…). Ricketts saw the Cubs and “Wrigleyville” as a potential gold mine. He actually comes off as a bandwagon fan to me, who really knows nothing about the Cubs and Cubs culture.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
I have said this from day one.....I bet most of us here know more about the Cubs history than him....
I love that people don't like Ricketts (one of the many reasons, I understand)
Because they think they’re a bigger fan than them.
News Flash… hardcore followers of any team are probably more knowledgeable about the teams history than someone who has run the team for 2 years. 99.9% of all Cubs fans are not as hardcore as this group – that shouldn’t be a surprise, or a knock on them as fans.
He claims to be one of us....A Huge Cub fan....if he didn't brag about that from the start I wouldnt say anything...
I don't really take that for bragging...
He’s a Cub fan, like millions of people are. He wasn’t insanely addicted to it, like the small group of us are.
I would not consider what you see here to be a standard landscape of the fanbase of the Chicago Cubs.
I’m also not sure why you thought he was bragging about being a fan.
He said in his big speech that he understood what it was like to be a long suffering Cub fan....
I guess not….otherwise he would do something about it….
You're clearly in a mindset that doesn't allow you to see this...
But once again… we are MUCH more extreme than almost every Cubs fan on the planet.
For instance, my father is a Cubs fan through and through. He loves the team and has suffered through a lot of the worst years. He remembers running home from school to catch the end of the games in the 60s and has some great stories. However, he would not be on a blog discussing the ins and outs of the Cubs.
I would NEVER say that my dad isn’t a long suffering Cubs fan, but he’s certainly not extreme to the point of you or I or any of the others here.
Also, I’ve brought it up dozens of times, and it feels like I’m beating a dead horse at this point, but let’s see what Ricketts does this offseason with some financial flexibility. I’m happy to concede that if Kenney is still here by the convention, this team is in some serious trouble. In the mean time, judging TR on how he’s not a true die hard Cubs fan is pointless.
Remember
He paid an awful lot for this team (also an “awful lot”), and he has interest to pay on loans. He can’t be a free spender with all that he has already paid. You can’t fault him for looking hard at the bottom line, too.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
in the interest of not abusing horses, let me say...
I do believe he has to be aware of the bottom line first….no exceptions…but, at the same time, I don’t think he looks at the team through the eyes of a diehard Cubs fan. Maybe it’s not possible to be both diehard and business tycoon.
Right or wrong, not appointing new “baseball” people by now, tells me where his priorities are. Presently, he thinks the status quo for the team is acceptable.
I hope in a few years I can say, wow I sure was wrong about the Ricketts….you guys turned things around like I never thought you would!!!! :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on May 23, 2011 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Not really directed at you, CG, but in general
We need to stop acting like being a fan is a prerequisite of a good owner. I couldn’t care less if he was a die hard Cubs fan or just a casual Cubs fan before he bought the team. At the end of the day, he now owns the team, and obviously has an interest in seeing them do well regardless of his prior fandom.
He’s not making bad business decisions because he wasn’t a die hard. He’s making bad business decisions because he doesn’t know how to run a baseball team. Once he realizes his mistakes from the last two years (and I believe he will), he’ll get someone in that FO that can oversee the day to day operations.
What kind of businessman buys a mulit-million dollar business that they know basically squat about running...
and proceeds to simply take the first two years to try some stuff and see what mistakes they make and can learn from?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
This is the exact argument I've been trying to verbalize for a while now
The concept that Ricketts is some bumbling oaf who just needs to find his feet is laughable. And the fact that we’re supposed to give him a pass because of this is…ridiculous.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Owning a sports team isn't exactly something you can learn ahead of time...
I’m not sure he’s going to be the owner we were all hoping for either, but to assume massive overhauls in the first couple of years is a little ridiculous too.
Everyone seems to be jumping to conclusions about everything Ricketts. I’m willing to give him a few years and see what we can get moving forward.
Let’s be honest, this team wasn’t going to be very good no matter what happened. Our future is in our farm and payroll flexibility – I expect this next offseason to be when the major changes come. I’ve been a Cub fan for long enough to be patient through mediocrity for 8 more months.
Yes, owning a sports team is unlike any other thing in the known universe and there are laws against doing research and getting advice of others who have owned or currently own sports teams...
also, MLB forbids new ownership to bring anyone versed in running a baseball team onto the payroll to replace any current employee for a period up to but not to exceed 2 years from purchase of the team.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm just agreeing with bdlugz.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess I missed the part where I gave Ricketts' a glowing recommendation.
But feel free to run rampant with the sarcasm.
You're assertion about owning a sports team was patently ridiculous.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Well... in my own stupidity...
I would have assumed that every sports team is different. It’s not like the situation Ricketts’ stepped into is exactly common (a massively overpaid group of moderate stars paid for with back loaded contracts by the old ownership group).
It’s not like he can walk up to the Royals and talk about running a team, or to the Yankees or Red Sox, because they’re all in different situations. God forbid he get a feel for what HIS TEAM is doing for a year or two before making wholesale changes.
And I apologize – you CLEARLY know a lot more about what owning a sports team is like than I do. Wait, which team do you own again??
Here we go...
I’m sorry, I don’t have any experience in owning a baseball team so I’m forbidden from criticizing and critiquing anyone who does. I also have never played MLB and I’m guessing you haven’t either, so we should both just stick to talking about our hopes and dreams for this baseball club instead of trying to discuss/give our opinions of what we like and don’t like about it.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
bd
In 2013 if the club is still employing these people,… and it’s year 4 are you ok with that?
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Doesn't matter..he's never owned a team before. His opinion CLEARLY is irrelevant.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Apparently you didn't get what I was saying...
You said,
You’re assertion about owning a sports team was patently ridiculous.
All I ever said was that running a sports team isn’t like running a normal business – but apparently you think that was ridiculous.
You were unnecessarily sarcastic when I wasn’t even positive about Ricketts. I simply don’t see the point of being negative yet.
I’m not one of those “You don’t have first hand experience so you can’t talk about it” people. I am, however, of the belief that calling someones thoughts stupid simply because you have a different belief is pointless.
Nope.
If changes aren’t made after this year, at LEAST getting rid of Kenney – I’ll be extremely disappointed with the Ricketts.
I think that it’s bad enough they cam into a difficult situation without someone in mind to run the team, but if they think after 3 years of declining numbers and unimpressive products that they are still the best people to be the oversight committee, I’ll be shocked and not at all pleased.
That's not what I was/was saying at all.
Your opinion was to be overly snarky on my comment.
Bd
Don’t you think there are baseball people out there but if asked could maybe help Tom out?
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't disagree with that at all.
I think you’re getting the impression that I’m happy with what TR has done. I’m not. My first thought is someone to oversee the team was needed.
However, I’m willing to see what happens after this year before I start to pass judgement.
The point, which seems to be about seven miles above your head
Is that if Ricketts was truly strolling into a situation he didn’t understand and couldn’t possibly prepare for, it might have been a decent move to hire a president, or someone of that kin who KNEW baseball and the process of building a team to evaluate how the team was being run.
Ricketts didn’t HAVE to step in blind. He chose to. And now, because he made a piss poor decision the, we’re supposed to just shrug our shoulders
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I had something typed out that I wasn't proud of...
But you’ve got a habit of seriously pissing me off.
Clearly, if you’d bothered to look at ANYTHING I was saying, I’m not overly impressed that Ricketts’ didn’t have someone in mind to take over day to day operations. I think that was an oversight.
MY point, which seems to be over your head as well, is that everyone makes stupid mistakes in life and in business. Ricketts seemed to think that he was capable of being the head of day to day operations of the Cubs – it appears he’s not. If he STILL thinks he is after this season, I will be disappointed.
so then why 3 instead of 2?
When he was in the very long process of buying the team he also had time to think about these things
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I was willing to give 3 years...
Because of the crappy contract situation. Like I said, I’m not really pleased he didn’t hire a baseball guy from day 1, but he’s also had a crappy team to work with.
If he allows that to carry forward when we have over 45MM coming off of the books, It’s a major disaster.
Even if he DOES start replacing people after this year...
they’ll have little time to learn who we have and where they are developmentally before they’ll be expected to start using the 45MM surplus payrol to make improvements. Ricketts has basically put whoever the new guys are behind the 8 ball as soon as they come aboard, and he did it as soon as he decided that Kenny and Jim were staying when he bought the team.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 23, 2011 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Like I said, I don't disagree.
However, assuming our scouting department stays in tact (hopefully they will), they will have all the tools and people necessary to quickly understand the farm system and the shape it is in.
I just hope it’s enough.
No. I got your point
The problem with your point is that you then apparently think no one is entitled to criticize Ricketts pretty dumb decision not to hire a baseball guy.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Holy Scheisse
I AGREE WITH THAT CRITICISM.
Maybe that will help you stop arguing with someone that agrees on this point. I’ll leave the post at that.
So next year if I critize him it'll be ok with you?
So discussion with you is moot. I feel like I should be able to now.
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
This is my opinion, you can do whatever you want.
You are simply asking why I PERSONALLY am not jumping all over Ricketts yet.
This is why.
I’m not trying to turn anyone to my opinion or tell you what to do.
like I said
your I think in a year I can be critical and my I am critical then are different sides. It’s not something either would change. You’ll be over on the dark side with me eventually LOL
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Ugh, I hope not...
But I’m prepared for the worst.
have the Cubs given us any reason
to believe otherwise?
I wish they had. I don’t see it. I thought I did last September. I really did.
Now the best I see is debating about if a bench wasn’t hurt what move would have been made.
Baker or DeWitt aren’t going to solve any of the Cubs problems :(
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
No, but $45MM might help.
I just hope that right action is taken to ensure that is spent in the best way possible.
Until I see them utterly screw up this massive amount of cash coming free, I’ll give them a shot. It is, after all, their first time dealing with some spending money. Let’s see what happens.
if I may bdlugz,
he now owns the team, and obviously has an interest in seeing them do well regardless of his prior fandom.
doing well is not good enough for me and I dont think it is for most here. But I believe it has been enough for every owner we’ve had. I don’t think he’s making bad decisions, I think he’s making no risk/mediocre decisions. Not to jump the ledge, but I don’t think this will change soon and I’ll have to cope keep on coping :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on May 23, 2011 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not ready to jump off the ledge yet.
My hope is that he’s going to be making large scale changes this offseason. If that doesn’t happen, I’ll start to be quite concerned.
Cubs can get some win in the next couple of series....
then get destroyed in June.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
So, how many ABs did Colvin get in Iowa? 6? 7? 10?
They sent him down to work on his hitting? If he’s got it figured out ALREADY, then obviously we know what needs to be done next…and that is to send Rudy J. down to Iowa and bring up Iowa’s hitting coach, cuz, he’s obviously a genius.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
Colvin won't be recalled this week.
First of all, he can’t be. He has to stay down for 10 days (unless someone else is DL’d — Berg is already the replacement for Byrd).
Second, if he comes back, he has to play. I don’t see any guarantee of that happening.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
What he needs is to get a good baseball man to overlook things
Google brought in Eric Schmidt to help run to day to day operations.
The google guys were savvy enough to realize they needed someone who knew business.
As a businessman I would have thought Ricketts would have realized that.
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 9:14 AM CDT reply actions
Maybe Ricketts thinks Hendry is a good baseball man
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
Hasn't Ricketts owned the time for less than 3 years?
Isn’t this the last year of a ton of big contracts, including Hendry? So then wheres the fire? If a “good baseball man” was hired to be president or w/e you’re looking for, would that really change anything about this season? Would Ricketts really look all that more savvy? All there would be is bitching about how he hired a president who doesn’t know how to win and that guy is on the list of the 4-5 guys who are to blame for this seasons show.
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
i wasn't expecting much this year.
I just hope that Ricketts realizes he needs new leadership.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
by rlpete on May 23, 2011 9:35 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The good baseball man won't be able to help this season
Of course people would bitch. Thats the nature of sports. There are always going to be people who defend the Cubs as if they are personally members of their family and how dare people say mean things about them. There will always be people who won’t like stuff.
But step back and look @ it as a business. So if it’s 2013 you would be happy to have these people in the front office for the Cubs making the decisions? If you are that’s ok.
But personally I would rather have someone like I used in the above example, who had worked @ incredibly successful company (Apple) before to come in and run the company instead of the current people who are running this baseball team. The person to fill this job doesn’t have to be someone well known to fans. They have to know the business of baseball.
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it's pretty universal that we need a FO change.
I just don’t see it as breaking news, and honestly I don’t think Ricketts is as clueless as everyone here seems to love to play in their head. I see more loser attitude in the fanbase this year than I do in the team, as bad as this team is.
So what is the point you are debating with me then?
I am not looking for instant gratifaction. I want someone with a long term plan. I don’t see the person employed by the Cubs right now and would like to. To bring in that person doesn’t mean you have to fire everyone either.
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah well...
touche then.
That said, I do think heads should be lopped off.
I agree some do
They’ve tried big name manager, big name players. The Cubs needs to work from bottom to top. If there is dysfunction at the top that can trickle down.
Honestly SG I don’t want to be having this discussion in 2013 and part of me thinks we might be able to. :(
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think it'll be a problem.
2013 is a long time away…and all this stuff is offseason material.
I hope so
I think it’s fair to say that this off season will say as much about the Cubs as an organization as this season will. Good or bad.
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorry guys
But if anyone still believes this team has a chance to compete…they just aren’t paying attention. This team is bad…and probably will get worse before it gets noticably better. It just doesn’t have the horses. It’s paying a ton of money to a bunch of guys who just aren’t very good. Believing otherwise for short stretches like the Florida series just isn’t reality.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
Yes! Lets completely forget that they were real bottom dwellers for what, 10 years?
Just to reap the rewards of total sucking the last 3 years. That is how you really build from within! Lets use the Royal’s and Ray’s model of building from within!!!
Seriously??
Since Wilken took over, here is our 1st round picks:
2006: Colvin
2007: Vitters
2008: Cashner
2009: Brett Jackson
2010: Hayden Simpson
Of those, two have already cracked the big league roster, one is our undisputed top prospect, and two still have a LOT of potential to be great every day players.
You’re so overly negative it’s almost funny. You make uneducated comments without bothering to look up what you’re actually talking about.
by bdlugz on May 23, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
They haven't sucked.
Of course, none of them is helping the big league club at the moment, so I wouldn’t say the drafts have been awesome, either.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
How many teams have multiple #1 draft picks from the last 5 years helping them right now??
Honestly, if it weren’t for terrible OF contracts and bad coaching, Colvin would be on the team and at least helpful. Cashner was helpful as early as last year, and would be again this year if it weren’t for his injuries. Jackson could be useful right now, but once again we have a logjam in the OF, he’ll be our starting CF in 2012.
Vitters was a HSer in 2007 and he’s still only 21, he’s in AA and is young for the level. You couldn’t expect him to be up this early. Hayden Simpson was drafted last year and had mono, he’s just starting to pitch professionally and isn’t close to 100% yet.
To have 60% of your past 5 draft picks completely able and ready to help the club (barring injuries) is pretty impressive. I’d say not many teams can boast such numbers.
Fair enough.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
How many?
Answer = Lots
There are many teams who have multiple #1 picks in the past 5 years helping them right now.
How about the Giants? They’ve drafted Tim Lincecum, Buster Posey, Madison Baumgartner and Conor Gillespie.
The Rays: David Price and Evan Longoria
The Reds: Mike Leake, Drew Stubbs
Red Sox: Daniel Bard, Jacob Ellsbury, Clay Bucholz
White Sox: Gordon Beckham, Chris Sale, Aaron Poreda
Orioles: Brian Matusz, Matt Weiters
Brewers: Ryan Braun, Matt Laport
Cardinals: Colby Rasmus, Brett Wallace
Braves: Justin Heyward, Cody Johnson
Royals: Luke Hochevar, Eric Hosmer
Mets: Ike Davis, Mike Pelfry
Or the D’Backs: Max Scherzer, Justin Upton, Daniel Schlereth
I am just going off the top of my head, and only counting players that have made a significant impact at the major league level. Every team in baseball has “top prospects” in their system that were #1 picks in the past 5 years. There is nothing special about that.
Well, I clearly pointed out that having 60% of the 1st round picks was what was impressive
With another 20% that would be able to play and contribute now if it weren’t for a logjam.
You pointed out maybe 3 teams that fit that bill, which really only helps prove my point.
I’m only making an assumption here, and not trying to push it for fact, but it’s just something I think the Cubs have actually done well in the last 5 years. It would honestly be an interesting study for a rainy day.
azjazzman pwned you and you have to accept that
The Cubs #1 picks have been mediocre at best. Colvin is not impressive and he might be at best a 4th/5th OFr.
The book is still open on Vitters. He has displayed terrible discipline so far. But he is still very young and so he *may come around.
I am holding out hope for BJax and that’s about it.
He "pwnd" me? Sorry, I prefer english.
I think my point was pretty clear, and his list only went on to further prove my point. I didn’t claim that our last 5 1st round picks were the best in baseball, simply that they’re all looking to be productive at the major league level, with 60% having already contributed in some way and another 20% all but a certainly to make it up in September.
With your lack of ability to add anything to the conversation based on your last few replies, I won’t even bother trying to explain this further.
whatever, I have seen your comments and they completely lack rationale
You are not worth debating with anyways. Go play with your cuddly bears.
Scherzer and Schlereth play for the Tigers, no?
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
I want to rec this post because...
I feel like it fits the majority.
Another article by me (posted at Baseball Nation) about the visit to Fenway
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Also...
I find this board’s obsession with absolutely destroying Russell’s rep as annoying and far more real than Quade’s supposed obsession with starting Russell. The kid goes more innings than expected and gives up THREE runs to the Red Sox in their own house, TWO during a bases loaded no out situation, and still he didn’t do anything right. This in a friggin SPOT START after the team’s best SP this year goes down. Still not a single f’n positive can be written. It’s so hacky…
Meanwhile YOU CAN"T BLAME THE OFFENSE? Wakefield is a friggin 6 ERA pitcher at this point in his career and they had him at >70 pitches heading into the 7th. That’s through no fault of the lineup? Oh my head hurts…
Honestly, if the offense did any work at all last night’s game was entirely within reach.
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 9:49 AM CDT reply actions 5 recs
I think Al's cricitism regarding Russell ...
had more to do with Quade last night. Anyway, are you Russell’s PR rep, or something?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
by elgato on May 23, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I've said this before and it might sound kinda odd
But I’m happy I don’t know Russell personally, b/c it’d be hard to watch someone I know be put in that situation.
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually...
I’d like to see how Russell could do if he was actually given a chance to build up arm strength to be a starter. I mean, come on, he’s been tossed in to the starting rotation under the impression he was ready. Hell, even when you have a full time starter after spring training they might go 5 or 6 innings.
by ubercubsfan on May 23, 2011 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Russell can't really get RH batters out.
He’s good as a situational lefty. That’s his role.
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He seems to do fine getting them out for the first 3 innings.
I have to wonder if it’s because he doesn’t have the arm strength to keep his pitches going longer.
by ubercubsfan on May 23, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Not really
The RH hitters were hitting him up in the first 3 innings too, he was just able to pitch out of it to the lefties who weren’t Adrian Gonzalez.
Speaking of Adrian Gonzalez...
did anyone else think to themselves…“Damn…what mighta been” after watching that guy hit all weekend?
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
We don't like to aim high. We aim for "good enough", and occasionally get there.
NYY and BOS and PHI go for the top players. We go for the 2nd tier. We’re like the South Florida of MLB. We get the players who UF and FSU don’t offer, and hope for the best. And because we’re in the hilariously poor Big East, occasionally, we make a BCS bowl!
Adrian Gonzalez to BOS was the heartbreaker of the offseason.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Everytime the Cubs have aimed high recently...
they’ve ended up shooting themselves in the foot.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
ha! wish I said that :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on May 23, 2011 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Did we ever have a realistic shot?
Boston not only had more pieces to offer, but the pieces were better and they’re way closer to winning.
Gonzalez would have been making a lateral move by being traded here…we’re like San Diego except more expensive and our 2010 sucked.
Probably not.
I imagine it would have taken Jackson/Lee/Archer/McNutt. I probably still would have done it.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
In a heartbeat
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
If we get Fielder this offseason ... or even Pujols...
Missing out on Gonzalez wont seem like as big of a deal.
Imagine the uproar if we sent that package and could extend him. YIKES.
My theory?
The Red Sox have a lot of left-handed thunder. Quade figured Russell would be as good as any other option — even Wells coming back from injury — to fool Gonzalez, Ortiz, etc.
And, actually, that was a very good theory for three innings. But to leave him in past that was tempting fate.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
And yet last night as a SP he held his own against a
damn good Red Sox lineup. Maybe there’s something there that your obsession with making him a LOOGY for the rest of his career is making you miss completely.
"Held his own"?
He got hit pretty hard, including the two 400+ foot sac flies.
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Wow Al...
The spot starter/relieiver who threw 40 pitches ago left the game at 3-0 at Fenway in the 5th.
Is it really that serious? Or is it just your personal obsession with hailing Russell as The Problem (along with Quade and whoever else pops up on the list that day)?
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Right, 40 pitches two days before.
Which is why three innings should have been his limit. That’s the manager’s fault, obviously, not Russell’s.
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No al...
He hadnt given up any runs…what game reason was there to take him out? He was doing alright and they needed innings. Dyou expect better than 3-0 sox into the 5th with a spot starter?
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 11:12 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
So you're saying it's OK to concede the game.
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I don't think that implication was at all
I think it was as simple as Russell was still effective, so he was left in. I don’t think that that’s much of a stretch.
We'll all miss you Ron.
That's just a method he uses...
I almost want to believe Al doesn’t believe half the stuff he says. What is being conceded by leaving in a kid who’s held them scoreless?
He let him pitch into the fifth, dude.
When he was getting pounded — albeit pounded with sac flies — in the fourth. Also, he had pitched TWO days earlier.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Lol...sac flies count as poundings now?
Russell threw to two batters in the 5th…and he probably would have been pulled after Salty if it was a double instead of a HR because 1 run is a whole lot easier to deal with than man on second no one out…
And just to remind…the score entering this 5th inning Russell should never have been allowed in:
2-0. Quite the hole Russell dug the Cubs in.
Dude.
You are like arguing with a wall. First you use strawmen, then you use hypotheticals (if Salty had only hit a double, then Russell would have been pulled at 2-0).
I’ve said this all morning. Russell wasn’t the problem last night. You’re not going to win many games when you score 1 run.
But Quade should have pulled Russell in the fifth, maybe the fourth.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
The fourth.
He gave three good innings. Quade should have said “Thanks” and put Grabow in the game.
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So now it's time to see Grabow?
Ugh…there really is no winning with your people.
Do you get that opinions do change based on certain situations?
Is it really that foreign a concept to you?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
No.
It is a foreign concept to suddenly have the urge to see John Grabow pitch simply because some blogger fan decided 3 innings was enough despite a 0-0 score.
Then you people would just turn around and whine about how Russell killed the bullpen;…again,…there is no winning with your people because you decided a long time ago that swimming in the misery of losing gives you something to talk about too.
Full disclosure - do you know James Russell personally?
Serious question.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Who the fuck would dignify such a stupid question
with an answer?
Moi. No. Did Russell eat a key member’s pet rabbit or something that he creates so much animosity?
It's not a stupid question.
From what I gather, you’re close to the same age and both live in Chicago. When I was in my 20s, I ran into a few Cubs socially. It happens when you live in Lakeview.
You do seem to have a vested interest of some sort in Russell being a starter. So far, it seems that he’d be way, way better off as a reliever. These repeated shellings are not helping his career.
And really? What kind of response is that. Grow up. I’m engaging you as an adult, you can do the same.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I think it's more that everyone here wants to complain about Russell for a reason that's out of his control.
What is he supposed to say? No, I don’t want to start for you at the MLB level? That’s freaking insane. He was asked to do a job that he’s never gotten ready for because he’s been a relief pitcher. Russell going 4 or 5 innings only giving up 3 runs is outstanding for someone who seems to be improving every time out even though he’s never been given a chance to actually build up his arm strength to be a starter. Russel this year is like Fukudome in 2009 in CF, out of position, but you do what you have to do because of the circumstances.
I'm 22 and I live in the great state of
New jersey.
I have no vested interest in russell as a starter I’m just smart enough to know and weigh the whys in the situation. I know they wanted to try him as a starter, and I know that a whole lot of guys in front of him got hurt. I also figure in that I don’t want to see garbage like the Holy Trinity get starts this year.
I didnt think you were addressing me as an adult nor did I think you were serious in your questions.
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 5:03 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
So the "serious question"
in his post threw you?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions
He did pull Russell in the 5th...
to the score of 3-0. What you’re complaining about to me is just…it’s more hindsight based, short sighted nonsense…
What exactly is strawman about arguing to keep a pitcher in the game after he’s held the Red Sox to 0 runs through 3 at home? Is strawman this board’s way of saying “too many facts, argue more emotionally please?”
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And you leave him out there once he loaded the bases with no one out????????
Are you Quade in disguise?
Considering Russell actually worked out of that with about as little damage as you can expect
I don’t understand all of the animosity.
We'll all miss you Ron.
ok if you know
That you can eat 3 hot dogs and not get sick, but that when you start hot dog #4 you are more than likely get sick…..
why won’t you just sick with the 3 hot dogs and increase your chances of not getting sick.
Q pushed Russell past what his limit was. That’s the problem.
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Well hell, why let pitchers throw more than an inning ever
if the next is just gonna be riskier.
We'll all miss you Ron.
FFS
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Is the concept so foreign to you?
We’re talking about a pitcher who has been quite good as a reliever – usually in 1-2 inning bursts.
That same pitcher has been quite awful as a starter – with the majority of the damage coming in the 4th or 5th innings.
Wouldn’t you, after seeing the same result happen 4-5 times, decide to make a change in how you’re handling this pitcher?
I mean, I doubt they would have left Cashner in the rotation if he’d posted 6 starts of a 9.50 ERA. Why is Russell immune – other than either a gambler’s fallacy on the part of managment, or a desire by management to show that their initial inclination was the correct one, despite the available evidence?
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
What you doubt about the Cashner situation doesn't really matter...
because it didn’t happen. Kind of like my Salty/double thing somewhere in here.
As far as the rest of what you’re saying…it’s a spot start. Not that 4-5 starts on a friggin kid they JUST started converting back into a start is any kind of legitimate sample size…but I’m sure I’ll hear about how the Cubs could have tossed um…anyone…out there.
BTW: That same pitcher who’s been AWFUL as a starter held the Red Sox to 3 runs in their own park and lasted more innings than anyone thought he would…or according to a few here…should…but I realize how little that plays into this whole thing.
3 runs in 4 IP isn't great.
I don’t care whose ballpark you’re in. It’s better than expected – especially in light of Russell’s record as a starter and his quick turnaround from Friday – but it’s still objectively lousy.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Lol and I get accused of moving goal posts here?
Why not just say “sure he pitched well but since no one expected it he should have been taken out?” it’s probably closer to what you’re trying to say.
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 5:15 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
How in the hell is he past his limit if he got out of it with
fairly minimal damage?
When TWO runs is enough for you guys to whine about when facing a 40 year old pitcher with an ERA in the 5+ range, MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYBE just maybe the offense might have been an issue?
The offense was the issue.
But that doesn’t mean Russell should have been allowed to start the fifth.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Who would you have put in?
Berg? Quite teasing…we don’t let that ace in the hole out until we really need it.
Marshall and Shark were available.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Yabbut...
… except for Russell’s 3 inning appearance on Friday, it doesn’t appear Quade believes in relievers going more than an inning at a time.
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Shark has pitched multiple innings.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
It is a little overblow to be angry with Russell last night.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly, that's what I think myself and Senor are trying to say
The offense was abysmal, that was our problem.
We'll all miss you Ron.
I think Al was angry with Quade, not Russell.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Correct.
He took a pitcher who is capable of doing certain things and uses him not in that limited role.
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Again...
insisting Russell is just a LOOGY and should remain a LOOGY does not mean anyone in the organization is going to sit there and listen. He held his own, and Quade took him out when he should have been taken out. Leaving 3-0 and getting into the 5th is WORLDS better than anyone expected, and STILL you brush it aside for your lame agenda. We get it…you think Russell is a LOOGY4Lyfe…awesome.
I'm beginning to think ...
you have a big James Russell poster over your bed.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Or that he's bored and looking to debate
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Good call.
Later gators.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
lol
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on May 23, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
No. I just realize where this team is at...
and where they were last night.
Oh, and SOMEONE needs to balance out this “ZOMG RUSSELLS IZ DA PROBLEM DA KNUCKLEBALL WAS JUS TOO MUCH FOR DA LINEUP GIVE THEM A PASS!!!” stuff…
But yeah...
Russell and Quade are right above me. I can’t wait to replace them with my Thomas Diamond 2010 rookie poster!!
You have an ABD poster in the mail too.
Signed and everything!
The point is that
neither one deserves any anger. The offense that Al so easily let off the hook OTOH…
The offense is abysmal, has been all season,
and will continue to be.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
No, we're just a couple players away from contending....
or wait until we get all our SP healthy.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
It literally blows my mind how
ridiculous this place gets once they’ve set a target on a scapegoat player.
The offense wasn’t the problem last night…Wakefield’s knuckleball was just really on…can’t fight that right? God that irks the crap out of me…“We accept the mediocrity from the lineup…but that Russell kid is killing us with his partner in crime Quade!” Dumb is the only word I can think of to describe it.
Who in the name of GOD is "accepting" the mediocrity of the lineup?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Al...if you read the OP.
The Cubs offense looked pretty weak but this time, I won’t necessarily blame them; Tim Wakefield’s knuckleball was very, very good and it didn’t appear that any team would have hit him the way he was dealing. Then, when Wakefield was lifted to a rousing standing ovation from Boston fans in the seventh, Daniel Bard entered the game. Bard can reach 100 MPH; compared to Wakefield’s knuckler, he probably appeared to be throwing 200 MPH. Cubs hitters couldn’t touch him, nor could they score off Red Sox closer Jonathan Papelbon, who made his only series appearance in a non-save situation.
Then there’s some stuff on Papelbon’s music…
See, they were fiiiine! They just ran into some tough pitching at the MLB level against a top tier team!
Well, then that was in fact pretty dumb by Al
but you frame your argument as if everyone in here is fine with how crappy the lineup is. That’s not the case.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I noticed a few things about Russell last night:
1 – He’s got really solid mechanics.
2 – His velocity seems to have gone up in his starts. At the beginning of the year he was a whole lot of 85-87…last night it was more 86-88 with some 89s.
3 – His breaking ball is one mediocre pitch.
That's still not sufficient velocity to be a starting pitcher.
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Of course not but if he's gaining velocity in season while throwing more pitches then...
perhaps he’s not done gaining arm strength?
Why are you so obsessed with closing the book on this guy? Did they insult you so hard by giving him starts or are you just really pissed they refuse to start any of the Chosen 3?
I'm not closing the book on him.
Clearly, he is a useful relief pitcher. But that’s his role. Using him as a starter… well, we’ve been through this before.
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It was a spot start.
Just to remind.
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 11:13 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
My argument is that he's the wrong guy to make the spot start.
Look, you and I are never going to agree on this. Let’s just stop.
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It would be insanely easier to stop if...
you offered any kind of insight on Russell’s starts besides “he shouldn’t be doing it”, “Quade is obsessed with him,” and “he’s a LOOGY and only a LOOGY.”
The kid threw f’n well last night. Deal with it. Leaving 3-0 in the 5th was not an embarrassment for either he or the manager. Then theres the audacity to say it wasn’t the offenses fault when a 6 ERA 40 year old pitcher makes them look stupid for almost 7 innings…When I think you don’t have a very weird obsession/agenda in this whole Russell/Quade thing I’ll stop. I can’t let illogical stuff on the internet just get by!
...

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on May 23, 2011 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
One of my favs.
It’s exactly what I had in mind when I wrote that.
That is awesome
I picture people also saying this @ work. No I can’t handle doing this project.. someone is insulting the Cubs and I must defend them to the death!!
Or I must make Ruussels biggest fan see the error his ways!
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
No he didn't.
And I think I’m finding that I’m actually logic’s biggest fan here…
LOL
I’m also amazed by your overwhelming modesty.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I just realized that both Ted lilly and Doug davis
Are two lefties who don’t throw hard…and there’s probably more I’ve forgotten. So it’s not so bad velocity wise.
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 5:45 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I've tried to stay away from this and this topic,
but #3, is exactly why he shouldn’t start. If all he has is a fastball, and a mediocre one at that, then not having a good breaking ball or change-up kills him.
Last night was NOT Russell’s fault, but looking at his track record, Quade could have lifted Russell after 3, and then turned to someone else. At the very least, that gets Russell out of there with some confidence for once. Quade tends to leave all of his starters out there an inning too long however, so I was not at all surprised by the move.
If they want to try Russell as a starter, send him down to build up arm strength and stamina and call him up in August or September when we’re 20 GB.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
WHO takes out a pitcher
when it’s 0-0 and he’s throwing the ball well and you NEED innings?
How shortsighted are you people? The ONLY reason this is a pretend legitimate claim is because the Cubs left the 4th down all of 2-0. Not a SINGLE props for the kid working out of a bases loaded no out jam with only 2 runs at friggin Fenway and we’re in the negatives on Quade getting props for showing some balls to stick with him. THAT is what coaches and managers are supposed to do to kids in a year like this.
Quade said he wanted to play the game like a ST game,
so do it! Letting multiple pitchers throw 2-3 innings is how you would do that. I was under the impression, that he’d let Russell go 3, then Shark go 2, Grabow 1, etc….
Considering Russell came in and pitched 35+ pitches on Friday night, giving him 3 innings should have been plenty, especially considering it was a “spot start”, and he’d be back in the pen in a day or two. Leaving him out there for 4+ innings accomplished nothing.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
He also said he'd be happy with 4 from Russell...
which is what he got. He took him out as soon as he saw trouble in the 5th, like a manager should do.
Considering Russell threw 35+ on Friday he did a fine f’n job, and Quade did an even better job of getting him out of there on time. It could have been like the Dodgers game where instead of getting that last out he blows up…instead Quade got him out of there.
Leaving him out there for 4+ innings not only still had us in the game, but it left one less inning for the likes of a Berg or Grabow….Not that this should get in the way of a good whine.
Oh and btw...
once again…it was a spot start. They started Russell because unlike the other arms they have he has the combo of upside and health right now…two very big deals this year.
I was more impressed with Russell last night than some of his earlier starts.
He wasn’t the problem.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
I realize all of this.
I am not trying to criticize Russell here, but rather the way he’s being used, improperly.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
For some reason this year everyone expects every starter to be pulled after 5 innings
even if they’re throwing a shutout, or 1 or 2 run game.
We'll all miss you Ron.
Well, that's an incredible mischaracterization of what has been said
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry...
He meant to say 3 innings.
Quade is overworking the starters and also the bullpen and soon the world!
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're like the Anti-TJ
Only you actually make even more strawmen arguments.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes well it's my job as a tool.
You can follow me around and tell me how wrong I am without actually saying anythiung of substance! It’ll be one hell of a relationship!
Tool.
Dude you're claiming everyone wants every starting pitcher pulled after 3 innings
I don’t need to actually offer up proof of how dumb a statement like that is.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Dude it was a tongue in cheek joke...
because of the amount of bitching about not taking Russell out after 3. As if any manager alive would be so stupid to consider taking out a SP, even if its only a spot starter, after 3 innings in a 0-0 game…No one would do that. It doesn’t even make sense to d that. Who ptiches then? Grabow? Berg? For longer than they already were in? You’d stomach that? I doubt it, you’d just have a new thing to complain about.
He's left Dempster in many times this season an inning too long.
And a few times, its been the difference between a win and a loss.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Um...Dempster is a 34 year old major league veteran...
He should be able to work his way out of it. No one predicted Dempster would be bad this year, even if there was definitely talk of him being mediocre.
This isn't a new trend, Lou did the same things with Demp last season too.
Two of Dempster’s losses this year have come as a result of him being left out there too long. When he’s up over 100 pitches and barely escaping jams, take him out. Dempster’s ERA is still over 6 for a reason.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
You mean Dempster got left in long
as a 33 year old major league veteran SP too? My god…how long do they plan to let this happen? Why not just get a better pitcher?
Dempster’s ERA is not over 6 because Quade leaves him in too long. It’s 6 because he hasn’t been pitching well. What kind of blame shifting bs is that? It’s QUADE’s fault that DEMPSTER, a 10+ year major league veteran, is sucking this year? Really?
So...your argument is that despite the fact that its obvious to all
that Dempster didn’t have his best stuff on a given night, the manager didn’t have the ABILITY to pull him because he’s a veteran?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
No my argument is that Dempster hasn't had his best stuff all season...
but as a 14 million dollar opening day starter/10+ year vet, he should be given a little more rope and room to work out of trouble. So far, he has not been able to do so. Somehow in this board’s world that’s the managers fault…No wonder this franchise doesn’t win shit…
B/c we choose to critize a manager on an online forum
is why the Cubs haven’t won anything?
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Logic such as my Eric Schmitt example
can’t be considered b/c it’s nothing like multi-billion dollar company of people who didn’t quite know what they were doing and pulled in someone who had experience in this area.
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions
The difference would be...
Eric Schmitt had a great product and concept to begin with.
I think the Cubs could have one of the best products out there
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Your right I'm not
But if you have a good product and are pissing it away….. I’m going to be annoyed.
B/c what is business to him is life style choice for me.
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
No, because the criticisms are half assed...
and contextless.
Maybe that’s up to par with expectations around here, but personally that leaves many holes. The fact that I’m not getting a “homer” tag kinda shows what everyone is looking for here…a reason to complain about SOMETHING. The last thing I’ve been for my 2 decades as a Cubs fan is a homer…
No, because your criticisms are
for the most part reactionary nothings you turn into somethings…It’s emotion based bs guided by hindsight and a team playing like crap…And no one needs to explain anything either, it seems.
you've spent hours here trying to defend
James Russell and Q
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Only get emotional once I start having to actually...
deal with the other side’s incredible lack of logic or insight.
are you able to be doing this from work?
If so I want your job and you can come and do my housework
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I mean this in the least offensive way possible...
but is it anywhere near any of your business?
well I'm just curious
sorry if I hit a nerve.
You’ve never wondered about people here?
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Not in the least...
but I am fairly new. Hence my shock at how friggin whiny this place is.
by SenorGato on May 23, 2011 5:48 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
omg, our team sucks! what did you expect?
sorry if I sound whiny (I’m probably more on the bitchy-side) but I don’t understand how you can expect people not to complain.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on May 23, 2011 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions
22??
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on May 23, 2011 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Coolio, it isn't the fact that there is complaints on here
That’s perfectly reasonable, it is just that everything becomes a reason to complain, even things that clearly aren’t deserving of that treatment.
We'll all miss you Ron.
I dont know alkappy, I dont see it that way,
by a few yes…but most are pretty reasonable. I can get really bad about Ricketts. I know I’m guilty of over-complaining about him. I had such high hopes that he would change things and I feel like he is not the guy I thought he was.
I know, I know give it time…. :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on May 23, 2011 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions
That makes zero sense
if it were his first, or even second start that argument would actually make sense. But at some point, a pattern emerges and it is the MANAGER’S JOB to notice that Dempster doesn’t have the stuff to pull himself out of the jams he creates after a certain point.
Thinking it is completely beyond the pale to blame the manager for not recognizing when a certain player is not performing up to snuff and then getting him out of the game certainly sheds some light on your line of thinking though.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Um...so Dempster's track record of over a decade in major league baseball..
should be ignored because he’s struggling at the beginning of a season? And Quade should “know” that he’s not capable of pulling himself out of it yet? Do you people consider anything but only the simplest points of an issue that can be found through the power of hindsight?
The manager could start preparing the team a little earlier in the game in case Dempster keeps his pattern going. maybe have a guy start warming up a batter too early than too later like usual...There are things he can do rather than just sit there.
By pattern you mean...
“almost two months of starts, a couple of which have been good.”
This is what I’m talking about…there’s not a single basis in actual analysis…
You're not going to get any actual analysis either.
Just overreaction to everything as usual. That’s the BCB way….
Let's start a campaign to underreact to this team....
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll start...
…nah, too much effort.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Clutch.
what happened to the Tony Campana thread?
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on May 23, 2011 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
It was no longer applicable
So I deleted it in a fit of drunken pique.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
lol, ah....
twas fun while it lasted
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on May 23, 2011 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions
My apathy toward the 2011 Cubs has been much less stressful than past years
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
If they start struggling without getting an out in the 6th, yes
And that has been Quade’s MO. Let a starter who has been doing well get in trouble after he has lost his edge and by leaving him in, let the game get away.
100% agreed and rec'd
offense was the issue, not Russell. It is an obsession to bash him more than Q’s supposed “obsession” with starting him
We'll all miss you Ron.
I think the annoyance is more with Quade making Russell take one for the team
And then handling him in a way that totally destroys any chance to win. When Russell hits the end of his chain, take him out – he has given what he has to give. But Quade has left him out there to die after he has started to struggle.
Last night was the most unforgiveable in the way he was handled. Russell pitched 3 innings less than 48 hours before. He fought his way through 3 innings, but as soon as things got thick in the 4th, that should have been out of there. But Quade left him for 2 runs in the 4th and then brought him out for a HR and base hit in the 5th. Quade’s clue meter was on “E” there.
The holes in what you're saying:
- Russell has taken 5 for the team this year, and mentally he’s handled it as well as you can ask a 24 year old.
- We had very little chance to win when the offense can’t hit a guy everyone’s been rocking for 3 years now.
- He “died” to the tune of 3—0. I’m not sure what fanbase considers 3-0 death for a young pitcher, but I’m guessing it’s a losing one.
- Russell gave up 2 runs with no outs and the bases loaded on the road at Fenway. To you, and I’m sure other scared people, that might be the end of his chain. To the baseball world that’s a kid showing something.
- Literally everything you just said is based off of the gift of hindsight you’re allowed AFTER something has happened. Even then, 3-0 is not an actual hole to non-losers.
Russell was handled fine yesterday. How you people will harp on this crap and not a lineup getting shut down by a 40 year old who’s ERA is in the 5s the past 3 years is beyond me…but that’s just me.
I agree with you.
Letting Wakefield shut down the hitting was more of an issue. No surprise though as soft-tossers have killed the Cubs for years.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
You can't market losing...
No, Al, one would think.
I feel terrible for Byrd and Baker.
However, you can be sure that our fab GM Jimbo will be given yet another pass due to the injured players: “We couldn’t compete because our top players were injured.”
by The E-Man on May 23, 2011 10:04 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
if Baker is one of our top players.................
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
that's exactly what I said last night.
Just wait and see, Ricketts now has the excuse to keep Hendry around.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
It's a bit sickening
that we’re more concerned about an injuries effect on the GM than we are about a man who just got hit in the face with a 93 MPH ball and has multiple facial fractures.
We'll all miss you Ron.
pardon me but isnt that a bit sanctimonious...I have not read that any one here thinks Byrd's injuries are trivial
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on May 23, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
To me it's just sad that I've read a lot more posts about concerns that this will give Hendry a longer leash
Than concerns over Byrd’s health.
This, however, does not mean I think that people are not concerned about Byrd’s health. It just makes me sad that these are the things that come to mind when someone is injured.
what about Bryds health are you looking to analyze?
I’m open to it,. but I didn’t think there was anything to analyze about it.
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think he's looking for analyzing.
Just don’t use somebodies horrible injury as a pulpit to turn this into another Hendry bashing. Some things are best left unsaid.
We'll all miss you Ron.
The way it comes off is
“I’M the one who is suffering the most because of this injury”
We'll all miss you Ron.
That may be how you choose to take it
it is not what anyone is saying
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
From the original post...
However, you can be sure that our fab GM Jimbo will be given yet another pass due to the injured players: "We couldn’t compete because our top players were injured."
Certainly sounds like that’s what’s happening with that. Maybe I did take the post wrong though.
was he referring to byrd or the pitchers who are on the DL?
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I took it to mean 3/5 of our starting pitchers
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I took it to mean Byrd (and Baker) because they were specifically mentioned in the comment
We'll all miss you Ron.
if we have to consider Baker
as one of our best players that JH signed there is a lot more to worry about
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL. That's an entirely different argument.
However, I took that as all players, most recently Byrd (as it’s fresh in our memories).
which we can save for another day
when all I have to get done is housework :)
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions
What IS my interpretation?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Part of me is concerned...
That this is a serious question, and baiting.
I don't know, that's my point, you could comment what you just commented no matter what.
It means absolutely nothing.
We'll all miss you Ron.
ok, but I think they're just using every one of the injuries as an example. We're all reallly concerned.
this is said with the best of intentions…without those people that dislike Hendry’s Quade’s and Rickett’s recent decisions (myself included) we could delete half the comments here ;)
good discussion is good :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on May 23, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought Russell actually pitched well enough to win today, the offense was the issue.
A 3-1 game is a winnable game. It got out of hand with Kerry’s triple (Grabow’s runs), and at that point you’re in to typical relievers no matter if Russell starts or Garza starts. We just couldn’t hit Wakefield, that was the problem.
We'll all miss you Ron.
And... NOOOOOOOOOOOO
R.A. Dickey is scheduled to throw against us in the 3rd game. Another knuckle baller…
We'll all miss you Ron.
Maybe that's good.
It’ll only have been four days since the last knuckleballer the Cubs have seen.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
but will that change our happy free swingers into waiting on a pitch or two?
That was part of the problem
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
2 knucklers in 4 days can really throw the offense off for awhile though.
As if that hasn’t already happened….
You have to be patient at the plate to beat a knuckleballer.
So, with our guys, it was over before it started.
+1
So infuriating. Aramis at one point was up 2-0 in the count, and swung at a pitch at his shoetops. Wakefield walks guys, if you let him. When he gets runners on, and then falls behind, then he has to feed it, and gets rocked.
I agree with SeniorGato, I was really impressed with Russell last night. It wasn’t his fault that Quade tried to milk an extran inning out of him, then inexplicably sent him out for the 5th as well.
The bullpen did a fantastic job last night, until Wood gave up that triple on a 1-2 hanger to Youklis. You can’t ask much more from the pen.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on May 23, 2011 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I had no problem with sending him out to the 5th...
It would have been some pretty positive shit to see Russell get through the 5th. The fact that he did as well as he did is a testament to this guys mental makeup. This is the kind of player that sticks around and makes something of himself, even if it’s not super-ace.
Only problem is Wakefield was throwing strikes
And it seemed like the ump was giving him more leeway off the plate than he was giving Russell. Maybe umps can’t judge knuckleballs in the strike zone?
Plus, I bet that knuckleball looks inviting
You see it longer and initially it looks pretty fat. then it just drops and you swing down on the top of the ball.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on May 23, 2011 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Papelbon's music - Shipping up to Boston
Al, don’t you go hating on the Dropkick Murphys. Getting to hear that snippet of the song was pretty much the sole highlight of Sunday.
And it’s no worse that “Hells Bells” or “Enter the Sandman”
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
FFFFFFFFFAAAAAAAACCCCCCKKKKKKKK RRRRRRRIIIIIIGGGGGGHHHHHTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!

THUH DRAWPKICK MUPHEES AW THE GREATEST BAND IN THUH HISTAWRY OF MUSIC!
NO ONE DENIES THIS!
THUH BEETLES AND THOSE SISSY HAIUHCUTS AW FUH SISSIES! THUH MUPHEES RAWK MUCH HAWDUH THAN THOSE GUYS! THEY ARE BAWSTUHN! THEY AW TUFF AND UNFLINCHING AND THEY’LL KICK YOU. IT SAYS SO RIGHT IN THE NAME!
- notices vomit stain on wifebeater -
AND SPEAKING OF DRAWPKICK..HOW’D THAT ASS-KICKING AT THE HANDS OF THE SAWX FEEL, CHICAWGO? YOU KNEW IT WAS INEVIT..INEV…UNA….GONNA HAPPEN! YOU KNOW WHO ALSO DRAWPKICKED YOUR FILTHY CITY? ANOTHER LEGENDARY IRISH LADY BY THUH NAME OF MRS. O’LEARY! SHE DID AWL OF US A FAVUH AND BURNED YER FILTHY LAKESIDE STINKHOLE RIGHT TO THE GROUND. THAT KICK WASN’T EVEN HALF AS PAINFUL AS THE PAIN YOU JUST FELT WHEN THE SAWX KICKED YOU RIGHT OUT OF BAWSTON. GO BACK TO THUH SWAWMP LOSUHS. YOU’LL NEVUH BE GOOD ENUFF!!!
- sings Sweet Caroline -
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on May 23, 2011 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
LOL...
This is sadly accurate. Still like the music, though… and not ashamed to admit that I have gone up on stage a couple of times at the end of the show when they allow fans up there.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
WES FACKIN WELKAH!
(as an aside, KSK’s internal monologues for Rex Grossman were at least as awesome as their Boston Guy.)
Boston guy would LOVE Theriot. SO FACKIN SCRAPPY.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I've been a Cub fan for 50 years (and still am)...
..but after living in Boston for the past 20 years, it really is not hard to fall in love with the Red Sox. They are always contending, make smart moves, play exciting baseball and have the most dedicated fans in all of baseball (656 consectutive sellouts). Everyone loves a winner, and while the Cubs are Lovable Losers, Al is correct in saying that this team has to start being contenders. Hard to root for your favorite team in September when they are out of contention. I said this before-look around Wrigley at the current mix of fans. Most don’t even the score or even care. These are not real fans. They’re party animals. Many are tourists who never saw ballgame in their life. I still remain a Cubs fan, but no harm in rooting for a winner (Red Sox).
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
All this Red Sox gushing is alot easier to do now that...
they’ve found success. It wasn’t always like this, and at one point it looked like it’d NEVER be like this. At one point they might even have been more miserable than this lot.
Thank you for saying this..
I don’t understand all this Red Sox love and everyone jumping over each other in trying to emulate them. They haven’t won anything for 80+ freakin years. At one point they looked like they were never going to win anything until it all changed with that massive stroke of luck when they came back and beat yankees in 4 straight games.
Why can’t we emulate the Yankees?
$eriously, I have no idea what could prevent the Cub$ from being exactly like the Yankee$.
Let’$ just $ay the Red $ox make a lot more $en$e.
In all reaility I am not buying this whole model the franchise after crap
They just want to model the peanut bags, the so called experience and all that garbage.
When Ricketts hires competent people from team president to GM to FO then I will buy this emulating stuff. Until then it’s all crap.
Hones to god, some of you just need to stop taking the Cubs front office at their word
So Garza’s injury went from “not that bad” to “gonna miss at least one more start”
Who wants to bet it will be more than one more start?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
I didn't know the FO said that, I had only heard that from Garza
Garza was interviewed and said it wasn’t a big deal, he felt he could have thrown today if it were a huge game, and that he’d be checked out when they got back to Chicago.
We'll all miss you Ron.
This is one of those things I really thought Ricketts would put an end to...
but apparently it looks like it’s just going to be “business as usual” all the way around.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I doubt he even notices that kind of stuff
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
I think the Russell angst is a small bit like the Hill angst
It shows bad decision making. Now is there a better option. I’m not sure but I know that is a bad option.
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 12:26 PM CDT reply actions
With all the Russell angst,
no comment on Wood’s failure last night. In his last 8 appearances spanning 8.1 innings, he has give up 12 hits and 3 walks. In his first 11 outings, he gave up 7 hits and 4 walks. I know it is small sample size but he has hardly been a shutdown 8th inning guy lately.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
He's been shaky at best, he'll work through it, but he's been killing the Cubs as of late.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Are we sure he'll "work through it?"
Maybe this is who he is now. Maybe its why he was willing to take such a small contract.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
He was pretty good with the Yankees last season.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I think its just been wildness,
he’s been going more the the 4 seam fb lately. I think he needs to go back to the cutter on a more consistent basis.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
I'm not wrong in thinking that we're now going with a 3 man bench...right?
Do we have 14 men in the pen with Berg? Or am I missing a move?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Should say 14 man pitching staff
not “in the pen” specifically
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm guessing Berg was brought up largely for yesterday.
You’ll probably see Berg and/or Maine get demoted in a few days. Just my hypothesis though.
We'll all miss you Ron.
Most likely...
… Maine goes back for a position player before Tuesday’s game.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
But he's so good!
I believe that with his skill set, Scott Maine would have no trouble finding a career in either the food service industry, or in the bullpen of the Pittsburgh Pirates.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
B.A.D.
after reading all the different postings, arguments, gripes, bitches and whinings (mine included) on this thread, it’s clear to me that we’re ALL correct. And that assessment can only mean one thing…this team is BAD.
Russell being forced to start is an awful idea. Does that make Russell a BAD pitcher? No, just a BAD starter. Our rotation has lost, now, 3/5ths of the starters, which makes our starting rotation pretty BAD. Agreed?
We’ve got to be towards the bottom of the league in errors and unearned runs allowed, right? That must mean we’re BAD defensively, too, right? And let’s not even go into the base running…BAD…argh!
Let’s look at our hitting now. We got a nice surprise in Barney, and Castro seems like a legitimate hitter, but, other than a couple guys having hot streaks every great once in awhile, our offense is pretty BAD. Is there a worse team in the league batting with RISP? And the power numbers…sheesh!!! For instance…I want you to say this to yourself 3 times…“45 games into the season, our usual clean-up man has ONE home run”. ONE! We have NO backup catcher for our catcher who needs backing up, due to some sort of injury, 2 or 3 times a year.
Right now our best hitters/run producers are guys that aren’t even considered “regulars” (Reed and Baker). I’d say that makes our offense pretty BAD, wouldn’t ya say?
I’ll give the bullpen a decent grade, for now. They seem to have it together out there…don’t they?
As for the manager…BAD!!! ‘Nuff said on him.
So, all in all, we got a team that pretty much everybody expected…a BAD one. They have the 4th worst record in the league…you know that, right? Not the NL, but, the ENTIRE majors. This team will play hell matching last years record…seriously. So, there’s no use in getting all bent outta shape over the rest of the year…it’s not worth it. You need to save all your frustration and anger for this upcoming winter, because, you may have a REAL reason to go off then.
So, until then…how about a group hug?
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
by Easy Ed on May 23, 2011 2:06 PM CDT reply actions 13 recs
my name is cooliogirl and I agree with everything here....I'll give ya a hug Ed
:)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on May 23, 2011 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Thank you.
I was just thinking something similar but not quite as eloquent.
Fasten those seat belts...
sheesh you're negative...
but I agree.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I know I'm gonna hate myself for this, but...
what don’t you agree on?
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
I wasn't ready to agree with ALL of it either.
There were a couple things like the manager that I’m willing to give a little more time on before officially calling them BAD, but it’s close enough for me to rec. I loved the gist of your post. I think all this quibbling over a team we pretty much all agree stinks is getting a bit silly. Can’t we just get along?
Fasten those seat belts...
Really?
You need to give this manager even MORE time before making a decision?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on May 23, 2011 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
It's her opinion...
She’s not trying to sell anyone else on it, so do you really need to give her a hard time for feeling that?
These are the kind of arguments that get frustrating. Everyone has their own opinion and we all act shocked when we aren’t all as disgusted as the next.
The team sucks – we all see different levels of suck, but the general idea of suck is there. Let’s focus on that.
So because someone has an opinion
they can’t be questioned on it? Katie is a big girl, she doesn’t need someone to answer questions for her. And my question is hardly giving her a hard time. It’s asking her a question.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on May 23, 2011 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess I missed the part where I answered the question.
I was making an observation on your need to question it at all. It’s been discussed at length in every post for the last month. Please see the last line in my previous post.
Hey about the big girl thing...I'm on a diet...I'm working on it.
To answer your question: Yes, I do want to give him more time. I think managers in general get way too much blame or credit. I’ve used this analogy before, but I think of him as that plastic surgeon in Batman that operates on the Joker and says “You see what I have to work with here.”
Fasten those seat belts...
And that's all I was looking for.
Making bdlugz comment below and above all that more confusing because no one is looking for an argument about how bad this team is, or at least I’m not.
Anyway, you were giving Lou a lot of slack as well, weren’t you? What I’m getting at here, is that’s just your nature, to just give someone, or at least these figures, a chance.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on May 23, 2011 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
If your questions was serious, then I apologize.
There’s a LOT of snark and sarcasm that goes around, which is the point in which I was making.
If you were legitimately curious, then I can see why that was quite confusing.
The point about not arguing about how bad the team is, however, is unfortunately not what I see from most people. Cheers.
Well you know what doesn't help with snark?
Jumping to conclusions.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on May 23, 2011 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
OOOOOOOOOOOOH YEEEEEAAAAAH
DIG IT
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on May 23, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
There have been so many arguments around here lately
that it is hard to know the difference. I wasn’t upset by your question. It’s all good. Admittedly, I was worried that someone would give me a hard time after I hit post on that. I gotta say I was flattered to have someone come to my defense.
Shh…yeah…I was a defender of Lou for longer than most here.
Fasten those seat belts...
It's the sad truth.
We’re literally sitting here over HOW shitty this team is. I don’t even think it’s the old BLou vs. the optimists – it’s the “we’re shitty” vs the “we’re shittier than the people who think we’re shitty think”
by bdlugz on May 23, 2011 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
+1
The Race to the Bottom
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Yep. We're all on the same shitty bandwagon.
made me laugh, too ;-)
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -J.R.R. Tolkien
Sorry, I was at the gym, but here are my agreements and disagreements in the most not argumentative way possible.
Russell being forced to start is an awful idea.
Ordinarily I would agree, however in this one instance, I disagree. I don’t see any better alternatives, and I think he performed admirably, and as noted above, was not responsible for the loss yesterday, the offense was.
Does that make Russell a BAD pitcher? No, just a BAD starter.Agreed, he is not a bad pitcher, and at this point in his career, he is not a good starter, but I think he has the potential down the road.
Our rotation has lost, now, 3/5ths of the starters, which makes our starting rotation pretty BAD. Agreed?Agreed, but honestly that’s true of any rotation if they went through what we’ve went through.
We’ve got to be towards the bottom of the league in errors and unearned runs allowed, right? That must mean we’re BAD defensively, too, right? And let’s not even go into the base running…BAD…argh!Agreed about D. Baserunning, sure, I’ll say agreed, but I think it’s more that we’re just really slow, and speed doesn’t exactly translate to how good a baserunner somebody is.
Let’s look at our hitting now. We got a nice surprise in Barney, and Castro seems like a legitimate hitter, but, other than a couple guys having hot streaks every great once in awhile, our offense is pretty BAD. Is there a worse team in the league batting with RISP?I don’t entirely agree, we set the table very often, and I’m pretty sure still have a pretty high team BA, the RISP is just atrocious at the moment. I do expect the RISP to improve, and at the end of the season, RISP and regular BA will probably even out and be about the same. And yes there are worse teams (I don’t know how many, but I know) the Red Sox are worst, for one.
And the power numbers…sheesh!!! For instance…I want you to say this to yourself 3 times…"45 games into the season, our usual clean-up man has ONE home run". ONE!Agreed, Aramis is disappointing at the moment.
We have NO backup catcher for our catcher who needs backing up, due to some sort of injury, 2 or 3 times a year.Most teams don’t have a good backup catcher, this is an overblown problem here.
Right now our best hitters/run producers are guys that aren’t even considered "regulars" (Reed and Baker). I’d say that makes our offense pretty BAD, wouldn’t ya say?They seem to be our best with RISP (and Barney), but I would argue this is because Q has put them in situations where they can succeed, whereas the regulars are just that, always in the thick of it, so it’s bound to even out.
I’ll give the bullpen a decent grade, for now. They seem to have it together out there…don’t they?Sure.
As for the manager…BAD!!! ‘Nuff said on himDisagreed.
So, all in all, we got a team that pretty much everybody expected…a BAD one. They have the 4th worst record in the league…you know that, right?I haven’t given up hope yet, but I will say that the players need to get it going sooner, rather than later, before it is too late. This next home-stand we need to take advantage of.
So, until then…how about a group hug?Oh yeah, hug me up real good Ed.
And sorry this took up a ton of room, you asked for it though.
We'll all miss you Ron.
Fair enough...
This next home-stand we need to take advantage of.
I agree…however…have you checked out their June schedule? That has got to be the toughest month in baseball for ANY team.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
I haven't, but I know we at least play the Phillies, Yankees, and Reds in it
which isn’t a good start.
We'll all miss you Ron.
June
Astros, Cards, Reds, Phillies, Brewers, Yanks. White Sox, Royals, Giants, Rockies, Pirates
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Then they have the Sox again 4th of July week-end
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions
This is so spot on right
and until things change, this should be linked back to in the face of ridiculous arguments to the contrary. Easy Ed with the post of the year. Good on ya, meatball Cubs fan. :)
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on May 23, 2011 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions
This is a gross exaggeration
The Cubs have the 5th worst record in the league
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on May 23, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I stand corrected...I guess it's not as bad as I thought.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
See isn't is much better now?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on May 23, 2011 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions
You are one BAD dude, Easy Ed!
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -J.R.R. Tolkien
More
I would point out some oter things this club is bad at on the field but that would just be piling on. This team has been bad since the day P’s and C’s reported. Only those in fantasy land believe otherwise.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
I am stunned by the sheer amount of comments
from alkappy and SenorGato. At times it felt like everyone here was being trolled, or someone was putting out a really concerted effort to get their post count up. I’m still amazed. People should remember this thread for year end voting purposes.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on May 23, 2011 3:01 PM CDT reply actions
haha
I’ve kept the tab open all day…. so I knew there was alot but not that many. LOL
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
And I see he's still going
Now I’m convinced it’s not even a real person. My guess it’s a gold farming bot from World of Warcraft that does post boosting on the side.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on May 23, 2011 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
anyone who has the time to read all these comments
should go and read the story about the Met’s owner. It’s a long article, but I learned a lot
by Madison Cub Fan on May 23, 2011 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey leave WoW out of this!
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -J.R.R. Tolkien
Hah
Knew I’d troll you out! :) Just kidding Emelie!
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on May 23, 2011 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions
White Flag
The injuries are unfortunate. Pretty much waving a white flag, no W on it, mainly because of the decimated roster.
Still hoping that they go out and compete each game for the fans. Though, I think the loyalty among players and management influences this. At least we’ve seen some late inning run production and a decent bullpen.
The torches and pitchforks are out once again for Quade.
This is hilarious.
Yep, it sure is...
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on May 23, 2011 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions
It's ridiculous to think it's his fault the players can't win.
Some around here don’t get it.
Yep, they sure don't...
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on May 23, 2011 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions
If you'll pay attention to what most people are saying...
you’d understand that NOBODY is claiming that Quade is THE reason we suck.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL...wait, you're mean.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
You disagree no one is claiming he is THE reason?
You might want to work on reading comprehension
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Husker, SenorGato, and alkappy need to form an alliance.
Makes these threads much more interesting.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
I'm beginning to think Husker has about 5 different nicknames
and SenorGato might be one of them.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on May 23, 2011 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions
He has at least three.....but he is not smart or clever enough to make them different.
Lazy, just like his favorite players…
It's only May!
Bats are heating up and we have talent on the field. When we get guys off the DL, we aren’t that far out in a weak division. Let’s not throw in the towel on May 23rd please!
I can't sign my name on my computer screen, so no signature!
by MBlum876 on May 23, 2011 4:13 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
what did you say?
I can’t hear you
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
i think these "hot bats" just got shut down by tim wakefield and alfredo aceves
ESPN Stroke Count for the month of May: 3
by jesus christos on May 23, 2011 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe the Cubs misunderstood the saying and are literally in the process of heating their bats?
If that’s the case, they may be heating up as we speak.
As for the rest.. no idea.
Hats for bats, keep bats warm.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Make this green!
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Bats normally heat up when you soak them in gasoline and touch a match to them
That was what you meant, wasn’t it?
With or without lighting the match first?
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Is it legal to go to the plate with a flaming bat?
If so, someone should try it.
Best solution?
Build a retractable roof stadium. Then there will no “cold weather” excuses. Probably good for 10-15 wins right off the bat.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
Better solution...
Invest in a giant fan that blows out during the bottom half of innings and in during the top half of innings.
What… that isn’t fair?
You mean pay Al to do this?...only reverse the directions because he sits in the bleachers.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 23, 2011 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions
The problem is
It is clear from this thread that Cubs Management wouldn’t know whether to blow or suck
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
You can't do that!
How would people see the “W” flag waving?
I can't sign my name on my computer screen, so no signature!
So tomorrow nigh....starting CF Blake DeWitt!!!!!
Don’t laugh…..he started ahead of Johnson in Boston!!!!!
Campana, unlike anyone else on the team
is a natural center fielder. Would it be too much to give him a couple of starts?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on May 23, 2011 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow. Fun thread.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Playing nightly at 7PM
drop by anytime,
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on May 23, 2011 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions
so tired
I am so tired of being a cubs fan, for real, we have the money, the fans, and yet we can’t have the team, I just want to give up.
You can always go follow the Red Sox
I heard that they are emulating the Red Sox. Why buy cheap imitators when you can get the real deal?
I kid, it’s hard being a fan especially during times like these but if a Cubs fan loses hope then I guess the earth will stop spinning.
QIAFI?

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by 


From South Park!



















