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about 1 year ago Alyellontoppscard_tiny Al Yellon 46 comments 4 recs  | 

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in all fairness to the Cubs brass

its a bit early to start trading pieces away and an organization will rarely throw in the towel on May 23rd…

I would say give it a month and we will see a big name prospect in Wrigley and some of these pieces to start moving

by hansman1982 on May 24, 2011 8:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

If it gets too much worse...What reason is there to play ARam, Dome, Sori, and Pena?

They are sunk costs. They will all be gone. We need to see what we have and what can be used for trade chips.

That would be more exciting than watching old players going through the motions…

by TJ11 on May 24, 2011 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm going to get roasted for this

Taking Soriano and Fukudome out of the argument for a second, but Ramirez and Pena haven’t done anything to deserve to be benched. They are veterans and they’ve come into this season as starters. Neither of those guys are having great seasons, but not horrible ones for them either. Furthermore, no one on the roster has shown indications that they can do it better.

With regard to Soriano and Fukudome, again, they are veterans and have already taken a hit to their playing time based on prior performance. Those two, however, have been two of the better performing players on the roster. Again, they don’t deserve to have their playing time slashed.

While I’m sure this argument will fall on your deaf ears, the reputation of the Cubs around the league would take a hit if they were to demote veterans that didn’t deserve it. Trade them, sure, but major league organizations do not do what you are suggesting.

by jerry morales rules on May 24, 2011 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

The team is not good with them, so why not look at what we have without them.

ARam should no longer be hitting 4th. I have never seen a more hollow .300 avg than this.
Soriano has had the one hot streak and then has gone cold as usual. Both are not good fielders and neither gives 100%. Also both are terrible with RISP. They are hurting the team.
Pena and Dome are plus fielders and draw walks. They have that going for them. My only problem with Dome is that he is blocking people we need to see play. If he really goes into his normal decline, he needs to sit.
Pena had one good week and then nothing. He will be on lists showing worst free agent signings of the year. Since he will be gone, he can sit as well.
I would prefer all of them get traded and get at least a low level prospect.
Aram’s contract will keep him with the Cubs. Soriano will be here forever. But they should not get playing time if they do not earn it.

I am so looking forward to next year. Hopefully with new leadership.

by TJ11 on May 24, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

I disagree with you that they haven't earned their playing time

I agree with some of your complaints about these players. I’m not on board with your characterizations that they don’t give 100%, but the rest are quantifiable.

Perhaps Ramirez shouldn’t hit 4th, but that’s a long way from saying he should be benched. Pena has had two good weeks, but the season is only 6 weeks old! Veterans don’t get the benefit of the doubt for getting off to a bad start? Really?

Soriano gets hot and cold all season long. .It’s nothing odd for him.

Ramirez and Pena haven’t been good enough this year, and Soriano and Fukudome haven’t been good enough for the duration of their deals. Soriano and Fukudome have already taken a cut in their time, but a benching for these four guys is not deserving. Major league organizations do not do this and it would harm the reputation of the Cub organization with the rest of the league if they were to do what you say.

Who is Fukudome blocking from us needing to see play?

by jerry morales rules on May 24, 2011 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Who is Fukudome blocking from us needing to see play?

Presumably, if Fukudome weren’t here, Colvin would be playing every day. Maybe under those conditions, Colvin would have hit better.

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by Al Yellon on May 24, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe.

I have serious doubts, though, that Colvin is physically capable of playing baseball at a major league level right now due to the pectoral injury suffered last season. Colvin needs to be able to drive a baseball hard somewhere, anywhere. That doesn’t need to be in Chicago. In retrospect, he should have started in Iowa and allowed to stay there for a while.

by jerry morales rules on May 24, 2011 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe.

To me, the key isn’t where he’s playing, the key is regular playing time. He didn’t get that in Chicago.

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by Al Yellon on May 24, 2011 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

When he gets good again at driving AAA pitching

Maybe then we can discuss bringing him up to the major leagues, but he hasn’t been a successful hitter for almost 11 months now.

by jerry morales rules on May 24, 2011 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice of you to include the winter.....

Aram has not had any power in 8 months by your scale…

by TJ11 on May 24, 2011 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

But he's been an effective hitter during that time

and he’s been effective in the past. Neither of those two statements are true of Colvin.

by jerry morales rules on May 24, 2011 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Colvin needed to play and beat out Dome last year...But Dome came in as the starter because of his contract.

There is no doubt that both Sori and Aram dog it.

Why does Soriano play everyday when he is ice cold?

Should players continue to play everyday based on what they did in 2008?

by TJ11 on May 24, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Colvin had two good months last year and that's it

You take those two months out and Colvin’s body of work says AAAA player.

Soriano plays everyday because no one knows when he won’t be cold. That’s the problem with streak hitters. If a manager knew before a game that a player would go 0 – 4, then he wouldn’t start him. If he knew that he’d go 2 – 4 with two hr’s, he would. It’s not that easy to predict when he will be hot or cold.

Players should be allotted playing time based on their whole stories. No, they shouldn’t play based solely on what they did in 2008, and no, veterans shouldn’t be benched because they got off to bad starts 6 weeks into the season. It is an argument based on their whole situations.

Right now, as I said, they don’t deserve decreased playing time. Their performance does not warrant that. As I’ve said, this would harm the Cubs reputation with veteran players throughout the league. What you’re suggesting has repercussions.

by jerry morales rules on May 24, 2011 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

How long do ride players that are ruining your season.....

ARam was not really good either, neither was Pena….Or Dome and Soriano is a very average hitter…..These people would be not playing as much if they didn’t make so much money.

by TJ11 on May 24, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

The players you identified are not ruining the season

These veterans do not deserve decreased playing time. They have not played that poorly.

It is unwarranted, it would harm the reputation of the Cubs throughout the league, and major league organization simply do not behave the way you want them to behave because of all the negative consequences of such actions.

There really is nothing to discuss with you though. Emotionally, you want to see these players hung and quartered and no rational argument will change your mind. .

by jerry morales rules on May 24, 2011 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Keep playing the guys who are leading us to 5th place!!!!

Your way is awesome!!!!

Players who should get regular playing time given the current circumstances,,,,,,

Castro
Barney
Johnson
Baker
Fukudome, since Colvin is gone and he has not totally gone into his slide.

These are the only steady players we have….

Nobody else should be expecting to start automatically….

If we were contending that would be one thing but we are not and have not for two years. That is 24 months…..

by TJ11 on May 24, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ahh, now the exclamation point sarcasm.

I was waiting.

You don’t judge veterans just based on what they’ve done the past few weeks. Sometimes, you have to play through the rough spots.

Emotionally, it feels great to vent on veterans. I get that. It’s just an immature way to run an organization.

by jerry morales rules on May 24, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's not venting on veterans.

He is just constantly resentful of players with big contracts.

He calls Soriano a sunk cost that shouldn’t play because “he’ll be gone.” Irony being that Soriano will not be gone for a long, long time. It’s one thing if we had a handful of younger players ready to replace Soriano, Byrd, Pena, and Ramirez…but we don’t. Or I should say, we don’t have any talented younger players deprived of playing time at this point. If he’s really crying over not letting aging prospects have their chance, then he’s beyond help. The only player one could make a case for is Colvin, yet scouting reports on Colvin have him projected as, at best, a league average hitter (that’d be Marcel). Other systems (most notably CHONE and ZiPS) have him even worse.

Are we really supposed to be crying over a fringe fourth outfielder prospect with incredibly poor plate discipline? He’s like an Alfonso Soriano who can’t punish mistake pitches as well. That’s what we want? A worse Soriano? Yikes.

Furthermore, what is the fallback for not playing our veterans? Letting them steam on the bench for the duration of their contracts? The idea is ridiculous.

Many people, myself included, would like to see the Cubs as aggressive sellers at the deadline. Who is going to buy four veterans who play twice a week for one of the worst teams in baseball? Our only shot, slim as it is, is to let them continue to play and hope another team will take a chance at the deadline. It really isn’t that farfetched to assume Ramirez, a historically slow starter, will improve as the season progresses and the weather warms. And what is our only shot at dumping Soriano? Hoping he hits a couple hot streaks, approaches 30 homeruns, and an AL contender takes a risk on using him as a DH for the stretch. We’d still have to eat massive amounts of his contract, but it’d be better than eating the entire thing and having him sit on the bench 5 or 6 days a week.

Don’t bother arguing with the many personalities of TJ. He makes outlandish and broad-sweeping criticisms of everyone in the organization; if met with a contrary opinion, he merely turns to hyperbolic sarcasm to refute points rather than attempt logical discourse. I’m certainly a passionate pessimistic about this team and yet I find myself disagreeing with his criticisms because they’re based on nothing but broad generalizations and ignorant expectations.

by Kansas25 on May 24, 2011 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

TL;DR

but I hate TJ too

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on May 24, 2011 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Absolutely
we don’t have any talented younger players deprived of playing time at this point.

by jerry morales rules on May 24, 2011 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol....

I thought Al was gonna be our 5th starter!

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on May 24, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

and one less than Sam Fuld

( sorry I couldn’t resist)

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either

by Doggie Stalker on May 24, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with both of you in many respects and I think it can be balanced.

I agree with the main point Jerry makes that if you start benching veterans, FA’s we want to sign won’t want to come here, because they’ll know it’s only a matter of time before it happens to them if they start slumping. TJ, I think some patience will be required this year before you start to see some of the pieces moving. If we are out of it by the AS break, I’m sure things will start happening, but I don’t think the organization has thrown in the towel yet like so many on BCB. I think there’s a way to balance (the deserved) respect for the veterans with letting some of the young guys get some more frequent starts. Gotta be patient though and see how the season goes still.

We'll all miss you Ron.

by alkappy on May 24, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great article

I never did understand the idea of keeping yours hands inside the ball.

by Grockcubs on May 23, 2011 10:19 PM CDT reply actions  

it's a wonderful thing

but you need very strong wrists to make that your primary source of power. I never had that. That’s why my “career” line was something like .310/.380/.320. That’s how you become a pitcher.

"We're young and dumb and ready to go throw strikes." James Russell

by PacificCub on May 24, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Marlon Byrd is the exact type of player I'd sign into retirement.

He’s a plus defender, goes balls-to-the-wall 24/7, statistics back up his play, and he provides incalculable value to rookies and would never disgrace the organization.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on May 23, 2011 10:28 PM CDT reply actions  

Depends on his contract demands of course.

But you’re right he’d be a great mentor for BJax.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 24, 2011 12:44 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

the only

reason colvin got to play last year was because pinella was getting so much heat from the media. but he did earn it too.this year not so much. and nobody was pressuring quade.and unfortunately you cant sit a guy making 18 mill to play a tony campana.just the way it is.

by NOMAR on May 29, 2011 5:54 AM CDT reply actions  

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