Cubs Reach New Low In 10-0 Loss To Pirates
by Al Yellon on May 28, 2011 3:50 PM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
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PrintI love baseball and I love the Cubs, but man, it gets really difficult after games like Saturday's 10-0 shutout loss to the Pirates.
How bizarre is this? In Paul Maholm's 10 previous starts this season, the Pirates had been shut out three times and had scored a total of 14 runs. He was dead last among 75 qualified starters in the National League in run support -- 1.4 per start -- and the next lowest isn't even close (Dustin Moseley of the Padres, 2.2).
Naturally, that meant the Pirates would come out with an offensive explosion this afternoon at Wrigley Field, 10 runs including four home runs. In the 10 previous starts by Maholm this season, the Pirates had combined for... three home runs. Opponents have now outhomered the Cubs at Wrigley Field 25-14 and Ronny Cedeno has now outhomered Aramis Ramirez 2-1 -- and Ronny has as many homers as Aramis at Wrigley Field. If you missed this note when I posted it, Ramirez' 17 RBI is one fewer than... Ryan Theriot.
Had enough? I didn't think so. The Cubs' only three hits today were a double by Alfonso Soriano that went just barely over Andrew McCutchen's glove in center field and two infield singles, the second of which, hit by Darwin Barney with two out in the ninth with a heavier rain beginning to fall, was a "please, why bother?" kind of thing. Maholm threw only 91 pitches. It seemed as if Randy Wells threw that many in... oh, wait, he actually did throw 92 pitches in just four innings.
Wells might have gotten out of trouble in the fourth if Soriano had been able to catch Neil Walker's drive off the wall. Who knows what would have happened after that? The next hitter struck out and maybe Wells gets out of the inning. Instead, Steve Pearce singled in another run; Pearce advanced to second when Tony Campana overthrew virtually everyone in Wrigley Field trying to get a runner at the plate he had zero chance of throwing out. It didn't matter two batters later when Cedeno homered.
That's when it got embarrassing. Pearce really isn't a third baseman -- he's been pressed into service there because of injuries, and generally is taken out for defense late in the game.
Clint Hurdle sent Brandon Wood out to third base as Pearce's defensive replacement -- in the bottom of the fourth inning. That's kind of an insult to the other team, saying, "We're up 5-0, but we don't need that hitter any more because you're simply not going to come back."
And the Cubs didn't.
They are playing listless, uninspired baseball. I have said before that no team is as good as they look when they're on a winning streak, and no team is as bad as they look when they're on a losing streak, but in this case, that old saying may be wrong. This team really may be as bad as they look. There have been a ton of injuries, so Jim Hendry and Mike Quade can be partly excused for running out a team consisting of minor leaguers and pitchers off the waiver wire.
I wrote at the beginning of this homestand that the Cubs really needed to go 6-3 to have any realistic shot at getting back to contention. To do that now, they must win all four remaining games on the homestand. That doesn't seem likely, considering they still have not won more than two straight this entire season; at the end of the homestand we will be exactly one-third through 2011 (54 games).
So let's wait and see a few more days. But after that, if things don't improve, it is probably time to back up the proverbial truck and bring up guys like Brett Jackson and let them show what they can do. At least that would generate some interest for people to come to the ballpark; again, the weather wasn't ideal today, although slightly warmer than the past few days. Of the 38,413 announced, most were in attendance; there were maybe 5,000 no-shows, although the ballpark started emptying out after the seventh inning, and more so after the light rain began an inning later.
If the Cubs don't want even emptier ballparks this year and next, they're going to have to make some bold moves... and soon.
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You know it's bad
When even Al, the eternal optimist, can take almost no good away from a game. I’m glad I didn’t really follow along for this one.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 28, 2011 3:53 PM CDT reply actions
This is a tough team to watch on tv
I can’t imagine how frustrating and depressing it is in person.
It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?
Pathetic
is the adjective that first came to mind regarding today’s game. I took my kids and sat through the entire mess. You know how bad the game was? The Cubs player of the game, announced after the game ended, was Darwin Barney for his seeing-eyed multi-hop infield single that prolonged the agony in the 9th inning. I was so frustrated with the game and the Cubs that I didn’t even bother singing in the bottom of the 7th – didn’t seem worth it.
Stretch
I felt the same way as Friday’s game. Who feels like singing while sitting through this crap?
I don't know that it's time to call up Jackson yet
But I have little doubt that time will come soon. We should probably get Marlon Byrd healthy first and then see what we can get for him. We should also be calling the Yankees about taking Zambrano.
I switched over to the Padres-Nationals in the fifth inning. That’s how bad it was.
I don't think Z is going anywhere.
What the Cubs might think about is seeing if they can get the Yankees interested in Soriano. Posada’s pretty much done as a DH — Soriano could give them value there. Even if the Cubs have to eat half the money, it’d be worth it.
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Cashman will resign first
No way Cashman takes Soriano. Not with Jesus Montero ready to come up and with no where to play but DH. The Steinbrenners will have to want Soriano so much that they’re willing to fire Cashman over it. Not likely.
by Josh Timmers on May 28, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
His contract runs out after the year is over anyway
Can we get Cashman in the trade?
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by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
We can try
We certainly could go after Cashman at the end of the year. Don’t know that we will or if he’s interested. I think he wants out of NY though.
by Josh Timmers on May 28, 2011 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions
If they can't find one of these uber-geniuses...
I’ll take Cashman. He knows what to do with deep pockets. The Cubs aren’t exactly the most loved organization out there either, and he’s had to deal with that and still gets teams to trade consistently and fairly with him.
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by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Yankees ain't gonna want Sori, Al...
A-Rod will be DHing alot in the future…especially when they sign Pujols to play 3rd next year. Never underestimate the “Evil Empire”.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
They aren't signing Pujols
You’re right, A-Rod will have to DH some. They’ve got Jesus Montero, unless they trade him for pitching. Mark Teixeira is going to be at first base through 2016.
Pujols just makes no sense for the Yankees.
by Josh Timmers on May 28, 2011 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
If Boston wins that division this year...
you better believe Pujols makes sense to them. This is the Yankees…they don’t accept failure…it’s not in their chemistry. They’ll put a bid out there that NOBODY will be able to match. It’s what they do.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
And where is he going to play?
Where’s Montero going to play? Where’s ARod going to play? Where’s Teixeira going to play? They’ll have four first basemen/DHs.
by Josh Timmers on May 28, 2011 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
They'll turn Montero into pitching.
Like they tried to do last year when they made a play for Cliff Lee. I do agree they won’t acquire Pujols, but I don’t see them keeping Montero long term, particularly given the depth of their catching prospects, and their 1B/DH situation, as you pointed out.
by neifiisgreat on May 28, 2011 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Montero as a catcher
isn’t a problem since he’s a lousy catcher. He’ll play first base/DH.
by Josh Timmers on May 28, 2011 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I can see him being traded.
Although I agree with you that he’s not really a major league catcher, there may be some team willing to try him there because he can hit. I can see NY trading him for pitching.
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Easy...
A-Rod at 3B/DH…Texierria 1B/DH…Pujols 3B/1B/DH…all 3 can play the same day…Montero catches, right?
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
He's a catcher
He doesn’t actually catch anything.
by Josh Timmers on May 28, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Package deal
Soto and Soriano to Yanks. Soto’s low salary would allow us to sweeten deal and we would have to eat les of Sori’s payroll.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
The Yankees are the one team that would never take Soriano
They’ve been on this ride before. They’re happy they got out. They aren’t interested in another go-round.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Texas makes it two teams that have no wants to take Soriano
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
Ditka's mustache can kill two stones with one bird
It is better to spend money like there's no tomorrow than to spend tonight like there's no money! - Irish toast.
slcathena is my wonder twin, and our battle cry is "Twinners rooting for the Winners (by which I mean Starwin and Darwin)"
No Soriano...No Soto
I understand the futility of trying to dump Soriano without picking up mosy of his payroll. I’m just trying to arrange for his eventual departure. Unless we sweeten the pot, I don’t see any team taking him, including the AL squads.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Why would they need Soto?
They have Russell Martin killing it at catcher, and tons in the pipeline.
More to the point, they have already HAD Soriano, judged Soriano, and watched him stink it up in the playoffs year after year. They ditched him at the first opportunity, and they’ve made it clear that he’s precisely the kind of player they do not seek to acquire.
Obviously we’d love to ditch him. But NYY is NOT the place where he’d be headed.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
They traded him for ARod
Hardly “ditching him at the first opportunity.”
It doesn’t matter though. The Yankees have no interest in Soriano anyway.
by Josh Timmers on May 28, 2011 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree that Soriano to the Yanks is very unlikely
My point is that in order for us to get rid of him, it makes sense to package him with another player or prospect. Personally, I believe Soto could be enticing enough to make a trade possible. IMO, there is no possible way we can afford to keep Sori with his rapidly declining defensive abilities.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
I almost hope they do
I’m wondering if his power is on the decline, and seeing how he’ll be in demand for a huge, long term contract, there’s a big part of me that wants no part it.
It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?
by chitownhawkeye on May 28, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm begging the Cubs to pay Soriano to play anywhere else but here.
Outside of that miracle, the most interesting trade parts we have are Byrd (if healthy), Fukudome (because he bats lefty and has an expiring contract), Pena (if he gets hot), and Wood (because he’s affordable and teams always need bullpen help down the stretch).
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I'd also be intrigued by what we can get for Soto
He’s on the DL every year anyway… and he’s entering an arbitration year. A trade could net us a pretty good prospect, as opposed to other trades, where we’re desperately trying to rid of someone.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Grabow could actually be tradeable near the deadline
There are often team looking for LH relief at that point, and his remaining salary will have become manageable. Of course the Cubs will have received no value for the $6M paid to him at that point…..
I don't think Z should go anywhere
He’s still a young man, and I think he still has 4-5 more good years left in him.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
And if this "new" Z really takes hold,
He really can be a useful tool down the road.
Does Quade deserve any credit for the change in Z’s behavior?
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL
I see what you did there. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
The Yankees have already ditched Soriano once.
They caught on early- the guy simply is not a winner. He shrinks from every high leverage situation, and 90% of his value comes from hitting mistakes for HR.
The Yankees decided that he was Naht a True Yahnkee a decade ago. They aren’t going to pay tens of millions to live through the Sori Experience again.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on May 28, 2011 6:17 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
it would be
a great start. This guy is just not a major league outfielder. He would make a very good DH in that other league.
by If we only had Hubbs on May 29, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
i think the key word of this post is 'uninspired'
of course most losing teams look uninspired but too many old vets absent a spark. i can live with a bad team losing 90 games because they aren’t good but give 100%, this team is giving about 40%
I'm going to a Twins game tomorrow
to make me feel good. Worst record in baseball. Cubs are going to have to get going or they are going to be in the basement like the twins.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
by mrcubsfan on May 28, 2011 4:06 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Daytona has won ten in a row
and is currently sitting at 37-12.
I don’t want to push the minors too much, but if you want to hear people singing “Go Cubs Go” after a win, Daytona’s the place to be.
That's what we decided.
We are going to see the Iowa Cubs and the Peoria Chiefs in a couple weeks. Really looking forward to it. We debated over going to see the Cubs in St. Louis too that week, but then thought why spoil our vacation?
Fasten those seat belts...
It's really not a "new low"...
pretty much the same low – just a different day. One of the 3 worst teams in ALL baseball – if not THE worst. That picture Eths posted in the last over-flow thread of Ricketts and 2 other guys sitting in an empty section at Wrigley was classic. That’s what it will look like come September…if not sooner. This team is worse than last years…and it’s not even close.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
by Easy Ed on May 28, 2011 4:10 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Maybe time to give Ryne Sandberg a call.
What the heck.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
I don't know that Ryno would make it better
but I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t make it worse.
by Josh Timmers on May 28, 2011 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions
At this point, why bring him into this mess?
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My biggest fear for Ryno
was seeing him put into a siituation where he had no chance of winning/improving this team…oh, wait…that’s this year.
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
Is Quade's contract for 1 or 2 years?
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
Hey Al
Hope you enjoy the remainder of the weekend…regardless of Cubs W/L record. Sadly, though I’m as guilty as anyone for rippin on Quade, he’s only a part of this mess. I think, in a way, he was set up for failure.
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
Quade
isn’t making enough money to really worry about the second year of the contract.
Firing him isn’t going to make the team magically better, but I haven’t been impressed with him as a manager.
by Josh Timmers on May 28, 2011 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Hendry may go...
…after this year, but there is a decent chance Quade stays for one more.
I’m not saying Quade is your long term solution, but the manager is not the problem. The new GM and or President will need to take at least a year to get a read on things anyway.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Not automatically...
…especially if he feels that Cubs aren’t ready to win anything. It also depends if the guy he wants is available.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Highly unlikely
Unless the new GM were someone internal, the new GM is going to bring his guy to be the manager.
But maybe not until 2013 - at this point, 2012 isn't looking like much either
Still too many salary commitments, still too much debt owed by the ownership.
Thats besides the point
If the Cubs hire a new GM, he or she is going to want to bring in a new manager, regardless of the level of the team’s success.
Is there a VORM stat?
If so, Qs VORM is below replacement mgr. He peaked last year, unfortunately.
by cubmudgeon on May 28, 2011 5:25 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed.
Some of his decisions have, IMO, been mindbogglingly bad.
But this mess isn’t his fault.
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Quade
I don’t care about Quade. No one would win with this team. Hendry absolutely needs to go. I can’t stand him any longer. I winch at any pictures of him just like Bud Selig. My dislike of Hendry is reaching irrational proportions.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
by rlpete on May 28, 2011 4:37 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
He could make some moves....
ARam does not have to hit clean up….
Soriano does not have to play….
Russell need not ever start again…..
He could bench people who loaf….
This he has control over, injuries he does not,.
The horrible roster by Hendry he does not.
But he does not need to keep playing the same crap everyday like the deserve it.
TJ is right on
the manager could make changes to the lineup. It feels just like last year with sleepy Lou, Lee “earned his batting spot” and stunk it up, but Lou refused to make any changes. At this point, nobody on this team hits home runs anymore so you might as well gamble and put Soriano in the 3 or 4 spot
I'm going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp!!! Who's with me?
worse than that
Q is making quite a few bad moves.
by cubmudgeon on May 28, 2011 5:27 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
of that I could not agree more
As Al has commented several times, the guy acts like we’re still in spring training with his bullpen management, player position swaps, batting orders, you name it, inexplicable stuff.
I'm going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp!!! Who's with me?
Well, TJ...yeah he does...
if just for the chance that they can move some of these guys at the deadline. I’d say about half way through the month of June (if not already), management will know that this is a 5th place team at best and hopefully open up the roster (except for a couple) for other teams to pick and choose…if any are worth anything to others, that is.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
I think management
knows this team isnt going anywhere but now isnt a good time to sell off the team
I'm really now under the impression that...
They only hired him to buy time, until a “targeted” manager would be available.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
If they fire Quade at the end of the year and hire Sandberg,
..do they still have to pay Quade for 2012 even he manages someplace else?
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
I THINK
2 years… but, if epic failure ensues, I doubt it’s for enough money to assure him staying in place.
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
Quade has been absolutely embarrassing as a major league manager
He showed it the first week on the job, and all the optimists here (Al… yourself included) kept saying “give him more time” before finally changing tunes.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
For the same reason...
you put forth in bringing up the kids.
I’m not going to say managers make much difference (though they can sure screw things up like Quade has numerous times), but Sandberg was the right hire for this really tough season because he could have created good will with the fans and kept them off the team’s backs for at least a few months. You really think there’s a Cubs fan alive who would boo when Ryne Sandberg goes out to make a pitching change?
I could forgive Sandberg for having first-year jitters and making mistakes, but Quade’s edge was supposed to be how many years he’s hung around coaching teams, and he hasn’t shown one bit of that experience. All Quade’s done is prove he shouldn’t be “the guy”. Quade constantly fights and struggles to justify his decisions and the resulting performance. Sandberg would have had to do that elsewhere too, but not with this team.
Regardless of what other teams did or didn’t do with their managerial openings, Sandberg was the right hire for this Cubs team and to hopefully carryover into the next era of success. He could survive these two tough years and give the Cubs the coverage they needed to evaluate and retool.
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by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Sandberg was the wrong hire
for this and apparently every other big-league team.
The reasons you cite are again based not in logic but in sentimentality.
My biggest fear this season was if the Cubs got off to a rough start, the Sandberg supporters would be out in earnest. Looks like that’s coming to pass.
I hear a lot of “Quade sucks” talk, but I have yet to really see what it is that makes you think he sucks. Aside from the team’s performance, I guess.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Seriously?
How about going into game 5 of the season without your 2 best closing options available because you’ve already exhausted your pen?
How about making a defensive replacement in the 9th with a 1 run lead at home, and putting Reed Johnson in RF for Fukudome, and leaving Soriano all by himself in LF?
How about playing infielders in the outfield (Jeff Baker and Blake DeWitt), when you have outfielders to play that position?
How about the constant jockeying of the lineup and more directly, the handling of Castro in the batting order?
How about the James Russell experiment?
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
by SackMan on May 28, 2011 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think some of this is differences of opinion,
some of it is reliant on factors that perhaps we don’t know, and others are beyond his control.
Do you think less than two months into a first full season is adequate time to evaluate someone’s performance and deem him worthy of being fired?
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions
You only see what you want to see...
If you had any class or aptitude to discuss baseball or any subject, I’d bother responding to you with the facts that you conveniently overlook so you can continue to troll people. Good luck with that.
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by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions
No
I just disagree with you and disagree with you vehemently. If you want to use that as an excuse, go ahead, but it appears I"m not the only person here who has a problem with you.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Since you haven't figured it out yet...
I still don’t care about you, anything you have to say, or the manner in which you say it. You long ago sacrificed reasonable thought for belligerent attitude and completely lack of respect and intelligence. I’m sure you get a lot out of it, since you have nothing else to offer. Continue with your regularly-schedule, clockwork-like trolling.
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by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I could not care less about you,
Crock-ett.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Which is why I don't respond to your worthless comments...
You waste your time responding to mine.
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by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions
You're right
Responding to your blather is a waste of time. At least we agree on something.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions
It's amazing NBF is considered the troll when you respond to a legitimate non-troll comment with THAT
We'll all miss you Ron.
by alkappy on May 28, 2011 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Why would Sandberg be the wrong hire for this team?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 28, 2011 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not going to rehash this argument again, VCF,
because it won’t end well, I can guarantee you that.
Go through the archives and see for yourself.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I hear this a lot
and I honestly don’t get it.
So people are saying Sandberg shouldn’t get hired unless he’s given a team that’s prepared to win?
That might be the first manager in the history of MLB to have that sort of requirement.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions
In hindsight...
… you’re correct. Quade is exposed more now that the games really “count” — last Aug/Sept didn’t — and he has had some bad luck with injuries. However, his decisions to replace those injured have bordered on bizarre.
Sandberg might have made the same choices. But, his stature would have given him a longer honeymoon period.
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Don't drop the hindsight thing on me...
I was saying this before they made the decision.
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by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Sandburg...
…may have done better, but it still wouldn’t have made a big difference.
Also, if getting Sandberg back to manage the club is that important to you, there is still a decent chance that could happen in the next year or so.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Tell you this
if Sandberg by some miracle gets hired to manage the Cubs (I’m not gonna hold my breath), he gets no honeymoon period. Rather, he gets the same one Quade gets, which is next to none.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the leash would be shorter with you......
most of us predicted this would happen with quade….overmatched…..
Not so
I’m sure the leash you’d give Ryno would extend from here to the moon. That’s the problem.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Nah....if he was making the same stupid moves, I would still question it.
If Quade was still making the stupid moves, but also benching people for loafing and holding ALL players accountable. I would give him MUCH more slack.
But instead he coddles his under preforming team….
Proving my point will be ARam batting 4th tomorrow.
Seems like every manager
“coddles” players.
Wonder if that means that’s just the way it’s done.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions
TJ and I discussed this yesterday
Hurdle’s scenario with McCutcheon was far more egregious than any that Quade has been faced with.
And as I mentioned, Len and Bob, when discussing this as TJ mentioned, used Quade as an example of a manager who will bench someone who loafs, when he benched Miguel Tejada for several days in the A’s minor league system.
We'll all miss you Ron.
All managers should be judged the same...
…which is why I have said for years, the Cubs problems are much bigger than the manager.
I called for Hendry’s head after 06 and I also preached; don’t be fooled by the division wins in 07 and 08 because he outspent a fairly week division. All that did was temporarily mask the deeper issues.
Let’s face it, the Cubs have made some pretty successful managers look much worse than they are in the last 10 years, there is a reason for that.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
It had little to do with Sandberg...
I just didn’t want Quade as the manager of this team. When it became a choice between the two, the right choice was obvious.
I knew the team was going to suck regardless of the manager. That has little to do with it. Quade’s just made it that much easier.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions
And Sandberg might have too...
but at least he’d have a much better excuse.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Thats is because he is
a minor league manager , This has become so very obvious .
congrat-u-f*&^-u-lations
and if Quade turned out to be a good manager then you would have been wrong but it would have been ok because the Cubs would have done good.
Dont take credit for being a boo-bird – thats the lazy way through life.
by hansman1982 on May 28, 2011 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
(whispers) clutchy!
Baseball is pitching, hitting, baserunning and defense.
by daver on May 28, 2011 4:31 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Of course, here come the Rynoholics
Get into a 12-step program, please.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions
And here comes NBF
to respond.
Lehigh Valley is in first place.
by Josh Timmers on May 28, 2011 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Good for them
I guess that means he’d win the WS in the majors, too.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm gonna start wearing a wrist band that has WWNBFD? on it.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Nope, can't take the easy way out. But thanks for proving my point. ;-)
Given the (dismal) state of the Cubs right now, what would you do if you were in charge? And you can have your choice – you can be Quade, Hendry, or Ricketts.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Can't do anything right now
Firing anybody ain’t gonna make a damn bit of difference.
If this continues for another month, you’re going to have to sell some guys.
At the end of the season, if it continues this way, Hendry’s fate probably will be sealed, and that would be fair.
Quade is two months into his term. He deserves much more time.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions
His buddy
is whom?
Christ, this is like the DaVinci Code.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions
No
Asking for Quade’s firing not even two months into his first full season is beyond idiotic, and typical Cubs meatball fan.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions
No, it wasn't
Repeating it over and over doesn’t make it so.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions
He hired his buddy when the rest of the world wanted Sandberg except you...
And look where we are…not all his fault….but he is not helping
The rest of the world most definitely did not want Sandberg
And neither did the rest of the MLB world, either.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
He did hire his buddy...
…and folks, that is what you get from Hendry, the guy is immensly loyal to his clan.
As a Cubs fan, I really didn’t want Sandburg, because I didn’t want him to come in under these circumstances (poor leadership at the top of an organization kills even good managers).
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
What proof do we have
that Quade and Hendry are/were “buddies”? Not baiting, I’m seriously asking.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Without revealing my hand...
…I have heard it directly from someone who would know.
Also, anyone that has in the Cubs organization as long as Quade, is going to be a “Hendry guy”.
Honestly, considering that Ricketts opted to keep Hendry and let him hire manager number 3, I think Quade was the right hire.
I say this because; this team wasn’t going anywhere anyway and you don’t have to worry about eating a lot of money (Quade only got 2 years) when new baseball leadership comes in. Also, this is my opinion and I have had is some what confirmed by my source; Hendry was one of the main reasons Brenly took his name out of the running.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I'm assuming
Brenly and Hendry are a don’t-invite-’em item?
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think...
…they exchange Christmas cards no.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
It's not a big secret. Randy Bush, Mike Quade, and Paul Maineri played college ball together.
Randy Bush and Quade have been friends since the 70’s. Hendry and Mainieri have been close for years as well.
Is this a secret anymore? I thought we went over this all offseason.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Quade and Randy Bush were college teammates and roomates.
Along with Paul Maineri at the U. of New Orleans.
Maineri and Hendry have been close friends for years and years. That’s very well documented – and evident, in that Hendry has drafted a Maineri-coached player essentially every year since he’s had the ability to do so.
It’s not difficult to figure this out. Hendry, Maineri, Bush and Quade have been friends for literally decades. They’ve helped each other out whenever they could.
And yes, the latest example is Hendry hiring his Asst. GM’s old college roommate as field manager.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Just as a candidate shouldn't be considered MORE because they know each other
A candidate shouldn’t be considered LESS because they know each other either.
And I haven’t heard of any evidence that the reason Quade was hired as manager was because he knows Hendry.
We'll all miss you Ron.
It's almost certainly the reason he was initially hired by the organization.
It’s also almost certainly the reason he got the interim gig last year.
He got the 2011 manager gig b/c of how 2010 ended, and all the smoke and mirrors that finish generated. It was all to easy to say “This guy has our 2008 players playing at their 2008 level again! Keep him!”
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
No question...
…that would be the equivalent of canning Gerald Perry after a great offensive season in 08.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
So your approach would be...
June – do nothing, give Quade & team more time.
July – if they still suck, start selling, which pretty much equates to throwing in the towel for this year.
Aug-Sept – play out the season with the kids and see what you got.
Is that fair to say?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Generally speaking, yes.
What would you do?
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, what I laid out & you agreed with is pretty much how things usually play out in Pittsburgh & Kansas City
two organizations you’re fond of saying we’re not.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
That isn't true, bh
That isn’t true at all. They don’t even bother trying to compete.
Sometimes you try and you fail. Tough to accept, but it’s true.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions
both organizations are better than us now.....at a fraction of the cost.
The Royals farm system is stacked……
They are not trying to start Doug Davis
seriously
you want to bitch that our farm system is lesser than the farm systems of 2 teams (make that 3 with the Rays) that have spent more years since the Reagan administration with top 5 picks than they have above .500?
again
their systems are better beause they have been bottom feeders for DECADES – it is easier to amass that kind of talent when you are perennially picking in the top 5. The system isnt that bad – we were 8th before trading 2 of our top prospects.
As for what I'd do... well, for starters - I wouldn't have waited this long
I would have stripped this team down to the bone, kept the good stuff, and (re)build from there.
I still think that’s the best approach, so even if I took over right now, I’d do my best to catch up to the plan. Strip the team – sell what I can, sit what I can’t. See who responds (and how) and who doesn’t. I’d make sure who ever I put on the field wants to play baseball. If they get their asses kicked, but still played hard, I’d be fine with that for now. And I’d focus my efforts on getting better players.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on May 28, 2011 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You may be right...
…but that would have required replacing Hendry, because doing so is not his MO, no his strength.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I'd try to steal a month on that timetable - if it were to be done, t'were best done quickly
Mainly because some of the players they need to move will not be easy to move, short of unconditional release. May as well start flogging the wares early. If this team doesn’t show any life in the next week or two, stick a fork in them, and start playing the kids in the OF and at 3B (Ramirez won’t be moved – the Cubs would have to eat way more than $2M because of his 2012 option triggering with a trade).
Last year everyone with common sense
realized we had a bad team. Yet, instead of bringing in some prospects and letting them play, they sat on the bench. Quade acknowledged he felt treating the veterans differently than the youngsters. It was felt that Quade would install better fundamentals.
The fundamentals are worse than last year. The veterans are still not accountable for their play. Why can we expect things to change in Aug-Sept?
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Injuries
I don’t want injuries to get Hendry off the hook. The Cards don’t have their Cy Young ace pitcher, their expected 3rd baseman and no closer. They have a Cub reject starting at one of the most critical position. Their first ballot HOF’er is having his worst season. They have a 1st baseman in the outfield and they are playing much better than the Cubs.
At this point, the best thing is for this team to lose 100 games so Ricketts will get a real GM who understands the importance of depth.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
by rlpete on May 28, 2011 4:15 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Exactly right
injuries and the players that are on this roster. How is Cleveland doing? How is Arizona doing? It seems there roster isn’t filled with All- Stars. This team is a collection of players not a Team. Blame the manager? He gets his share, however it also goes on the players You would think Pena would be a good influence, which I am sure he is in some way. But I guess others over ride that influence.
Sure am glad my Free Extra Innings package
expired last weekend. (It was still active from NHL action.) This way I only have the WGN and other network games featuring the Cubs to ‘enjoy.’
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on May 28, 2011 4:16 PM CDT reply actions
Never thought you
were a coward SDSJM! :]
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
Corey Patterson just hit a walk-off against the Sox...
so the day isn’t completely ruined.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
With that one swing he has hit as many HR as our cleanup hitter!!!
But Essian sees no reason to move him…..HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I just picked Patterson up
in one Fantasy League. Not regretting that decision right now.
by Josh Timmers on May 28, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
He also went 5-for-7 today.
Must be a different Corey Patterson than the one who played for the Cubs. It couldn’t possibly be the same guy.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Al,
the shame of it was he was off to such a good start (not sure of the year) until he injured himself crossing firstbase. I thought that he had really arrived. What a shame I liked watching him play.
Cubs 2011 70-92
It was 2003, shortly before the all-star break
The thing was, they had him hitting in the middle of the order then and he was thriving.
Unfortunately, when he came back the next season, Dusty insisted on shoe horning him into the lead-off spot where he was wildly overmatched.
I’ve often wondered how thing smight have turned out differently for Patterson re; his Cubs career if he had been kept in the five hole.
by bluekoolaide on May 28, 2011 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Dusty never seemed able to accept the fact that Patterson...
…was simply too impatient to be a lead-off hitter. Of course, Dusty had a “grip it and rip it” hitting philosophy in general that certainly didn’t do the Cubs any favors.
The only true lead-off man they had during his tenure was Lofton during the second half of ’03 which was, incidentally, when they played their best baseball under Baker.
by bluekoolaide on May 28, 2011 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree on Lofton...
…but with Patterson, he would have failed not matter what spot in the order he hit.
It took the league a little while to find his holes and then it was all over for him.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
The rest of his career indicates that you're probably right
I just can’t help remembering how excited I was about him during the first half of ’03-I really thought he had arrived.
by bluekoolaide on May 28, 2011 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions
We thought he was great until he hurt himself, and never the same after.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
by waiting4cubs on May 28, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
he loved the high heat
but couldn’t ever hit it
"Playoffs?!" -Jim Mora
by Castro Por Presidente on May 29, 2011 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Patterson has been a stubborn player his entire career
Unable to make the week to week adjustments necessary to be a good hitter in this league.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I also remember when Patterson refused the Cubs request...
…that he work on his game in winter ball which was definitely a major nail in his northside coffin.
by bluekoolaide on May 28, 2011 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Patterson's problems are partially his fault
and partially Dusty’s, for the square peg/round hole approach he took to the leadoff position.
Mostly, though, it’s Patterson’s fault.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't agree...
…no one was forcing Patterson to swing at fastballs at his eyes and than breaking balls in the dirt. It wouldn’t have mattered what spot in the order he hit, the scouting report would have been the same and he would have been exposed.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
In general, I agree
But Dusty’s insistence in batting him leadoff after it became apparent he was ill-suited for the role didn’t help.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree...
…Patterson in the leadoff spot was not the brightest choice. With that said, Dusty didn’t exactly have a roster loaded with good options.
From 2004-2006, the Cubs may have had the worst stretch of OBP from their leadoff spot in the history of baseball. For that matter, throw in the 2 hole as well.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Crazy thing was...
…Lofton didn’t get along with Sammy, which was one of the reasons they didn’t bring him back. Also Hendry was banking on Patterson being what he had hoped he would be. That was a mistake.
What makes it worse, is Hendry ends up releasing a video of Sosa leaving the clubhouse the next year for the sole purpose of getting the public on his side that Sosa must go, and he ends up cratering his trade value at the same time.
Lofton may have had a rough edge to him, but the guy was a winner and he was a gamer, which was something that went away on this club after 03.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
The 2004 Cubs were plenty good enough without Lofton
He wasn’t missed by me, at least.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 29, 2011 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
They didn't make it...
…so they were not good enough.
They had issues at closer, but what killed them down the stretch was their Sybil offense (10 runs one game none the next). That was because they had no one the entire year (at the 1 and 2 holes) to set the table, and they entirely relied on power, which we all know doesn’t show up everyday.
The 04 team was one dimensional and it showed over 162.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
They were plenty good enough on paper
Alas, paper doesn’t play baseball.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 29, 2011 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
on the talent quotient...
…they were good enough, but you need more than one type of talent, or you make it easier for the other team to play against you.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
16 games behind the Cards & 3 games behind the Stros = not good enough
They really only had two solid starters and a bullpen that choked like dogs. Plus a HR/K manic/depressive kind of offense. As composed, the 2004 Cubs defined “the whole is less than the sum of the parts.”
didnt he rip into coaches on the Cubs staff
shortly before taking off a Cubs uniform for the last time?
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
Ditka's mustache can kill two stones with one bird
It is better to spend money like there's no tomorrow than to spend tonight like there's no money! - Irish toast.
slcathena is my wonder twin, and our battle cry is "Twinners rooting for the Winners (by which I mean Starwin and Darwin)"
it was
2003. remember he drove in a bunch of runs versus the mets. then dusty started "coaching " him
by Roman the greek on May 28, 2011 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I think he has a beard now.
Baseball is pitching, hitting, baserunning and defense.
by daver on May 28, 2011 4:36 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Still has poor plate discipline
With Patterson, when bat meets ball, lots of good things happen. It just doesn’t happen enough. I hope he can have a good year with Toronto, but I can’t see him having a great one.
by jerry morales rules on May 28, 2011 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Sad, very sad...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
by eths on May 28, 2011 4:27 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
To answer your rhetorical question:
How bizarre is this?
On a scale of 1-10 I’d grade it a 7.
Had enough?
Yes.
Who knows what would have happened after that?
Nobody.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
The movie
Apollo 13 comes to mind. When Gene Krantz utters, “can someone tell me what is working” So what as Cubs fans can we say is working on this team?
Cubs 2011 70-92
The drainage system?
Baseball is pitching, hitting, baserunning and defense.
by daver on May 28, 2011 4:37 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
It better be working
as the season is going down it.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
by rlpete on May 28, 2011 4:48 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
the express lane between Chicago and Des Moines
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
Ditka's mustache can kill two stones with one bird
It is better to spend money like there's no tomorrow than to spend tonight like there's no money! - Irish toast.
slcathena is my wonder twin, and our battle cry is "Twinners rooting for the Winners (by which I mean Starwin and Darwin)"
Glad I went to see The Hangover 2 this afternoon instead of watching this joke!
"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts
Yeah
As usual, the original was better. Some good laughs though, especially at Stu’s expense.
"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts
I don't advocate...
the movie industry wildly over-valuating their products, wasting billions of dollars each year with worse and worse results and turning over the bulk of the costs to consumers. But they do it, so I don’t feel bad about paying less than their prescribed price.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions
It's as relevant as anything you have to say...
and has the benefit of not being said like a 12-year old.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Only a broke 12 year old would steal movies.
"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts
The 2011 Chicago Cubs pack more jokes into 2 hours than any movie.
you shortchanged yourself.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on May 28, 2011 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Rami
has worn out his welcome. I do hope the Cubs pay him his 2M next yr and say adios. But then this is the Cubs so no telling.
If Quade had any guts at all...
…he’d sit Rami’s unmotivated butt for the rest of the year. I can’t decide what’s harder to watch: Soriano flailing away at unhittable two strike piches or Rami lethargically playing out the string.
by bluekoolaide on May 28, 2011 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions
At least Soriano will run into a long ball every so often...
A-Ram’s power is gone. He may hit 8 – 10, but, they’ll come when they don’t mean squat.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
More importantly...
Keep both of them away from Castro. He doesn’t need to be infected by their disease.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I'm honestly worried about the effect playing on a dead team like this...
…could have on a young player like Castro.
by bluekoolaide on May 28, 2011 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I hope you're right
On the other hand, it can’t be a good thing for a young player to be exposed to a bunch of overpaid, lethargic veterans.
by bluekoolaide on May 28, 2011 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
If i recall
Ernie Banks was on some pretty bad teams his first ten years in the league. Did not hurt him. Disclaimer: I am not saying Castro is going to be EB
Cubs 2011 70-92
If you really think those veterans are overpaid and lethargic,
then maybe it’s teaching him what NOT to do. I don’t necessarily subscribe to that theory — when a team is losing, it’s going to look lethargic, no matter what or whom — but it can go that way, too.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe some of them
are trying too hard …
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions
You know, I was wondering that a while ago.
I certainly am one to think that if you press and then try too hard, you end up playing worse. Just look at #4 before he left Green Bay … every time he tried too hard, there’d be either a mindless interception or a game full of turnovers.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 28, 2011 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions
With the Cubs...
…I think it is a blend of; lack of talent, pressure to win without enough talent and no one to really look to as a leader.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Agreed
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 28, 2011 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I would say...
…they are probably trying as hard as they know how, considering the circumstances.
Another manager may have sat a guy more often, but with veterans, they will eventually go back to their typical style of play. If you don’t get leadership from your players, you need to get it from your manager and that is tough to put on a new guy like Quade.
In 07, I think Piniella did a great job waking up a completely lackluster club up until about this point in the season. Piniella took over the leadership role and the 2nd half club had a different charactor about it.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Too bad...
this team is completely void of leadership throughout the organization to keep him, and others, from learning from their poor examples.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions
But this year
just like every year, we’re assured that the clubhouse if full of good guys with great clubhouse presence.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Soriano would be good for Castro.
no matter the day, good or bad results, one thing is Soriano does work his ass off and try. I would rather see someone fail trying than loafinf
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
Ditka's mustache can kill two stones with one bird
It is better to spend money like there's no tomorrow than to spend tonight like there's no money! - Irish toast.
slcathena is my wonder twin, and our battle cry is "Twinners rooting for the Winners (by which I mean Starwin and Darwin)"
It is
a shame. Over his stay he has provided some good times. I just hope Cub fans don’t forget that. But yes, he certainly is a shell of his former self.
Cubs 2011 70-92
I think as time passes, people will remember the good moments much more...
…then the sad end.
That doesn’t make him any easier to watch right now though.
by bluekoolaide on May 28, 2011 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Sadly it certainly looks that way
It would be nice though to see pride be a bigger motivator for him.
by bluekoolaide on May 28, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
i hope like hell that there is nothing wrong in his life
causing him to mentally not be in it. I would rather he lost his passion, than to later find out that there was a tragic situation back home he kept a secret
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
Ditka's mustache can kill two stones with one bird
It is better to spend money like there's no tomorrow than to spend tonight like there's no money! - Irish toast.
slcathena is my wonder twin, and our battle cry is "Twinners rooting for the Winners (by which I mean Starwin and Darwin)"
If Ramirez is like this
or only slightly improves, he won’t be playing with the Cubs next year. There are too many potential options in the minors and Baker or DeWitt could fill in for a season if need be. No way they throw an extra $14M for this Aramis Ramirez.
by jerry morales rules on May 28, 2011 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Trade him back to the Pirates for Neil Walker (salaries aside).
I know Walker doesn’t play 3rd, but we’ll make room for him.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
I for one
haven’t given up on Rami yet. It’s that same mentality that got us a more expensive Pena over a cheaper Berkman. Would I pick up his contract next year? No, but at the right price I’d take him back especially considering the dearth of available talent at 3b. Great players usually don’t fall off so badly unless there’s a nagging injury. Based on Rami’s past with the Cubs, I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
"Playoffs?!" -Jim Mora
by Castro Por Presidente on May 29, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
And you know
what stinks evern more, once again the Cubs will be the butt of many jokes. And we the fans will have to endere
Cubs 2011 70-92
I believe the best defense is a good offense.
I try to crack the jokes before they are flung at me.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
by waiting4cubs on May 28, 2011 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
After following the Cubs for some forty years...
…I’ve developed a very thick skin when it comes to jokes and insults.
by bluekoolaide on May 28, 2011 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Since 1968 for me.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
by rlpete on May 28, 2011 5:04 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Well...
I remember Adolfo Phillips, if that says anything about how long I’ve bee abused by this team.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
I blame my dad for not allowing me to follow the path of...
…several of my second grade classmates and become a White Sox fan. I have a feeling that at least one area of my life would have been quite a bit less depressing and frustrating.
by bluekoolaide on May 28, 2011 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Look at it this way
It builds character.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions
prepares you for the real world
and when things go wrong, you dont freak out, you shrug your shoulders and start digging out of the shit
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
Ditka's mustache can kill two stones with one bird
It is better to spend money like there's no tomorrow than to spend tonight like there's no money! - Irish toast.
slcathena is my wonder twin, and our battle cry is "Twinners rooting for the Winners (by which I mean Starwin and Darwin)"
not to mention getting to wear a cool hairstyle... ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I remember when Tony Taylor played for the Cubs.
They were horrible back then, too.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
by waiting4cubs on May 28, 2011 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
when the Cubs are at their worst
its like watching a three ring circus of clowns, and i will laugh at their screw ups instead of letting them make my blood pressure boil over
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
Ditka's mustache can kill two stones with one bird
It is better to spend money like there's no tomorrow than to spend tonight like there's no money! - Irish toast.
slcathena is my wonder twin, and our battle cry is "Twinners rooting for the Winners (by which I mean Starwin and Darwin)"
Precisely...
…why an organization with their resources, should never experience the horrid years they have between division wins. They should compete at a high level virtually every year, and this shows the improvement that needs to happen from upstairs.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I used to have "Cubs stink" scrolling across my computer as my screensaver.
I would get comments like, “So you’re a Sox fan?” or “I thought you were a Cub fan.” To which I reply “I am a Cub fan. A realistic Cub fan.”
One of Lee Elia's 15%
by waiting4cubs on May 28, 2011 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
sounds like pretty much every season
Then again, I don’t really get off on cracking other fanbases, but plenty seem to.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on May 28, 2011 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions
It helps that I also factor in that people who get off on that kind of thing...
…are generally morons and really not worth my time.
by bluekoolaide on May 28, 2011 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
indeed
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on May 28, 2011 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
once again?
that would insinuate that it stopped at some point
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
Ditka's mustache can kill two stones with one bird
It is better to spend money like there's no tomorrow than to spend tonight like there's no money! - Irish toast.
slcathena is my wonder twin, and our battle cry is "Twinners rooting for the Winners (by which I mean Starwin and Darwin)"
Joe Maddon is a free agent after 2012.
Just sayin’
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Where's the talent?
I understand being frustrated with the manager/hitting coach/pitching coach for doing silly things, but ultimately if the material isn’t there I’m not sure anybody could produce results.
If I were Joe Maddon’s agent I’d flirt with Chicago to up the offer from Tampa knowing full well my client has no interest in leaving a good deal for a deep-pockets shitshow.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on May 28, 2011 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
There's a boatload of talent coming through the system
The exact kind of young talent that Maddon has been so impressive with in Tampa.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
"boatload"?
I don’t claim much expertise when it comes to the minors, but I’m not seeing much to get all that excited about in the short term and a variety of other sources agree.
That’s not to say things may not work out for a lot of players, but I don’t see the Cubs talent pipeline as a big selling point for any future manager.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on May 28, 2011 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Our Daytona and Tennessee teams are destroying the competition
In two most important leagues for prospects in our system.
1st place Daytona (37-12) is playing .755 ball right now in the FSL, with an impressive team ERA of 2.96
1st place Tennessee (32-17) is 9-1 in their last 10 in the Southern League, with an amazing team batting average of .305
The Cubs system has been said by many scouts as having the most future major leaguers in it right now.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Until the upcoming draft...
when the Rays have a truckload of high picks… and that’s not endorsing any assertion that the Cubs currently have as much or more young talent than the Rays… especially not based on minor-league records.
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by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Well... yes.
When you have 12 of the first 90 picks… you’re friggin amazing.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
And they do the most with them...
and still field teams with winning records.
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by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I believe you know more about it than I
so I’m not arguing anything other than to say if the Cubs were looking to lure Maddon away from the Rays I don’t think they’ve got much of an advantage if young talent is part of the discussion.
And that’s a short-term issue. You’re citing success in the A and AA levels which is all well and good, but from my perspective that’s not particularly reassuring.
I’d be more than happy to see the Cubs continue to stock the farm and reap the rewards in the future. I suppose the 95 year old man would disagree, but that’s not me. ;)
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on May 28, 2011 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions
There's not a single player in our system who registers as a Price-Longo-Crawford-Upton level impact player.
There’s Brett Jackson, but he’s a touch below the TBD guys. And then there’s really no one else whatsoever.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I think Brett Jackson
is pretty damn close.
"It's easy to do what's ordinary, it's difficult to do what's deemed impossible -- I guess that explains why my life is so hard, because nothing is impossible for me"
He's great, but the prospects I'm discussing are Eric Hosmer/Mike Trout-level guys.
Look at Evan Longoria’s path through the minors. Or David Price’s.
There’s no “adjusting to the next level”. There is domination, promotion, domination.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I understand.
And you make a very valid point. But the Rays did a whole lot of sucking to get those picks. I’m kind of happy the Cubs pick of Jackson was one when the Cubs were contenders.
"It's easy to do what's ordinary, it's difficult to do what's deemed impossible -- I guess that explains why my life is so hard, because nothing is impossible for me"
Please stop trivializing the job they've done...
they’re not just benefiting from sucking. They’ve scored with much more than just their high 1st round picks. They’ve been succeeding for 3+ years now in the toughest division in baseball, and it hasn’t stopped them from having a well-stocked farm system.
They trade and sign shrewdly. They offer arbitration when it’s necessary. They draft well, and they develop what they acquire at a very high rate. There’s nothing at which they don’t excel.
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by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions
OK - hire their GM/player development staff first
It’s not like the Cubs don’t have team management that shouldn’t get their walking papers.
I'm contesting the assertion that we have a "boatload" of the "exact same talent" that TBD developed in our pipeline.
We have maybe one, and more than likely zero, prospects of that talent level.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Boatload...
…is a little strong, we’ll see in time.
Also, I wouldn’t get overly excited about minor league records as a primary indicator.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
There's no talent whatsoever that's on par with the TBD prospect pipeline.
The Cubs have Castro, and have plenty of young players in their system who could make MLB.
They don’t have a single player, outside of Brett Jackson (and him only barely) who registers on the level of Price-Longoria-Delmon-Crawford-Hellickson-Upton-Jennings. THAT’S the kind of young talent Maddon is working with.
Heck, you can probably add Hak-Ju Lee to that group at this point. He’s beating the absolute hell out of A+ ball at age 20: .377/.457/.523, with 14 steals.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
OF COURSE NOT
Hendry was in charge of our minor league system for years. During that time, we produced literally no everyday MLB players. Not “no stars” – I mean no starters.
For some reason, he got promoted to GM.
Now, we have a middling system, with very little top-end talent. And an MLB team that has only 3-4 players who can be expected to contribute moving forward.
Hendry’s tenure has been an abject disaster. Hundreds of millions of dollars wasted, two full artificial boom-to-bust cycles, an insane unwillingness to confront the last manager in MLB to reject pitch counts, and a fallow farm system.
There’s going to come a point when BCBers will stop defending him. I’m assuming it will be the day after he’s fired.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
You know I gave him a pass from 03 to 08,
But this nonsense the last 3 years has been beyond brutal. It is amazing he has work. If he is not fired after this season, then I will lose respect for Ricketts.
I mean you look back at the drafts he ran, that was some type of ugly. The drought of position players coming through this system is remarkable. Grace, Palmerio, and Soto have been All Stars. Well Soto looks like it will one and done.
No I thought Hendry did some nice work with the Ramy deal, Lee deal, Dempster and Lilly signs, but boy he has had some failures.
"Deep Pockets Shitshow" would be a great title for the Cubs 2011 highlight film
by bluekoolaide on May 28, 2011 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd love to see a guy like Maddon in Wrigley but...
…as the ownership has shown no ability to make decisions of any kind, I’m not getting my hopes up.
by bluekoolaide on May 28, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
that is an amazing title that I would love to see
I'm going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp!!! Who's with me?
By about 2013, the roster could be substantially remade
2012 not so much, but the only high-$ deal to an older player that goes past 2012 is Soriano’s. And the good news is that Tampa won’t match $ in a bidding war.
They should raid their FO too, for whoever they could get.
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by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Big day for the alumni
Homer for Cedeno and corey’s 14th inning walk off blast against the Whit Sox.
Like I said in the game thread
This game was over in the first inning desite their being no score. 24 pitches from Wells, 11 from Maholm. I know you can’t make guys hit, but the lack of plate discpline from the Cubs is staggering, most of them never met a first pitch they didn’t like.
FYI Ramirez may have one fewer RBI than Theriot, but he has 3 fewer than Fuld still in a slump and Fuld has 2 more home runs than Rami. PLEASE play Baker & DeWitt at 3rd.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
how can you say that, we have one of the highest paid hitting coaches in MLB
he has worked wonders with our hitters, they lead in RISP, we simply crush the ball…woops, I just woke up.
I'm going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp!!! Who's with me?
I was really excited when the Cubs got Jaramillo
So much for that
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on May 28, 2011 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I haven't given up on Jaramillo
He has helped raise the BA of the team. But he can’t impact common sense into a group of veterans. The whole system has poor walk rates and that includes Tenn and Daytona. If a hitter can hit .300 with no RISP but .190 with men in scoring position, is that the fault of the hitting coach? We’re just not a very baseball savvy team.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Well....
Considering that there are so few remarkable coaches in the world of baseball, and that generally staffs are filled out by old friends and lifers and former players, hoping to catch lightning in a bottle is a perfectly predictable position for the Cubs to take.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on May 28, 2011 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Never never...
…think a hitting coach is going to be the mesiah. Their impact is immensly over rated both on the positive and negative side.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Yet...
Hendry deemed fit to pay his a lot of money to do a whole lot of nothing.
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by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, I guess it's a lot of money relative to what other hitting coaches make, but relative to the total payroll - not much.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I don't let them get away with it...
when they try to plead poverty to me later. When they act like the big league club that they are, I could care less what they pay their coaches.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions
It was the attractive move...
…rather than the right move.
When Hendry canned Perry in 09, that was really a joke. There problems had absolutely nothing to do with Gerald Perry. In 08, they had one of the best offensive years in a long time, did he get dumb all of a sudden?
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
agreed, after what happened in Texas
it appeared Jaramillo was the hitting coach we needed, it seems that Jaramillo had nothing to do with the Rangers hitting success because they’re still tattooing the ball and he’s been gone 2 years now.
I'm going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp!!! Who's with me?
I'm not so sure
The fact that Castro and Barney have done so well so early in their careers certainly can’t be discounted. Of course, with hitting coaches it’s impossible to tell.
"Playoffs?!" -Jim Mora
by Castro Por Presidente on May 29, 2011 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Did you see Clint Hurdle come out to argue the out at 2nd on the attempted stolen base?
Did he fall asleep at the beach or something? His face was a shade of burnt red I don’t think I’ve ever seen before!
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
maybe he hangs out with Speaker Bohner
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on May 28, 2011 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Quade's face is fire hydrant red.
It’s also the worldwide recognized shade of embarrassment.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I know this is a Rockies photo, but look at that red face. Not judging, it's just kinda weird...
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Y'know how you get the red face?
Copious amounts of gin.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on May 28, 2011 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Another Hurdle photo - because it's more interesting than talking about today's game!
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Since we're on the subject
That guy has the most overdeveloped jaw muscles I’ve ever seen. I’d say it was jowels or something, but it’s not. It is this huge ball of muscle on each side of his head that flexes everytime he chews another wad of gum.
Clint Hurdle has the most hyperdeveloped set of masseters I’ve ever seen.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on May 28, 2011 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
This is so depressing.
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -J.R.R. Tolkien
They have those too...
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Club option for next year
Safe to say he will be.
"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts
Tomorrow? What's wrong with today?
It would make the rest of my evening that much more pleasant.
by bluekoolaide on May 28, 2011 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I do. But I don't blame Ramirez for all of this. He didn't tell McGeeHee to leave the Cubs.
The management can’t seem to identify talent (e.g., I don’t think Sori and Shark and Carlos Pena and MBradley and all the rest were great additions to the club). Even Onedec, CPatterson, Fuld, and McGeeHee are doing OK away from the team.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
Maybe
there is something more to it than talent evaluation. If all those guys are allegedly doing so well elsewhere, and other guys who do well elsewhere can’t get it done here …
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Then is it scheme? Coaching? Development?
Hendry has been at the head of this ship for longer than almost every MLB GM. At this point, it can be conclusively demonstrated that he has no plan whatsoever, other than to react wildly to the most recent crisis he created.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
outside of a hot 2 weeks
fuld hasnt done jack
flippity floppity floop
by jesus christos on May 28, 2011 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
McGeeHee certainly seems to be the real deal...
…but I have a very hard time lumping Cedeno, Patterson and Fuld into the “talent that got away category”.
Cedeno has been terrible for most of his career. He’s having a decent little run right now but let’s see how it plays out over a full season. And every once in awhile Patterson puts togther a decent string of games (he did it with the Cubs too) but we know from ample evidence that it won’t continue.
There’s no question that playing for the Cubs presents unique pressures but there have been plenty of players who came over here and thrived. I think it depends on the mental make-up of each individual player.
Of course post-season, as we’ve seen, turns all of these pressures up about fifty notches but I don’t think we’re going to have to worry about that for awhile.
I don't really care that they got away...
it’s that they got away for nothing.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, perhaps not this year
Things are never as bad as they seem, and they’re never as good as they seem.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions
In my fantasy world
the twins will finish last and fire Ron Gardenhire and our new team president and g.m will hire him.
I don't think...
…the Twins are that stupid.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Your fantasy is nice.
But they won’t fire Gardy. The Twins are besieged with injuries—even worse than the Cubs—and their replacements have done a fairly decent job with really bad luck.
"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo
So... who would you keep?
Starlin Castro, Matt Garza, and Carlos Marmol? Everybody else is avaliable?
"It's easy to do what's ordinary, it's difficult to do what's deemed impossible -- I guess that explains why my life is so hard, because nothing is impossible for me"
If the Cubs are out of it at the deadline,
I’d see what you could get for Ramirez, Byrd and Fukudome. If someone wanted Soriano badly, him, too.
That would be it. Keep Z, keep Dempster.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Why?
If the Red Sox or Yankees ask for Zambrano.. get something good for him. Your not going to get a top prospect but something close to it.
Dempster should go also for a good price. We need to get rid of some salary, IMO.
"It's easy to do what's ordinary, it's difficult to do what's deemed impossible -- I guess that explains why my life is so hard, because nothing is impossible for me"
Dempster has a $14mil player option for 2012
Who is going to want to pay that?
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
If Dempster continues to turn it around
I could see it. The Cubs would have to eat alittle bit of it.
"It's easy to do what's ordinary, it's difficult to do what's deemed impossible -- I guess that explains why my life is so hard, because nothing is impossible for me"
Is it really worth moving him now?
We have literally no one who is capable of filling his role, even at his current production level. I’d keep him through the end of next year, frankly. I’m not nuts about that, but these are the cards our GM has dealt.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I don't think the Cubs would have to eat any of it
End of the rotation pitchers go for $30M for 3 years. $14M for one year of a middle rotation pitcher is an easy gamble for a team to take.
by jerry morales rules on May 28, 2011 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions
No
Z still is relatively young and can be part of this team’s future pretty easily.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
but if someone is willing to overpay then I’d jump on that. Not likely considering Z’s cost in dollars alone. Everyone has a price.
"Playoffs?!" -Jim Mora
by Castro Por Presidente on May 29, 2011 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I realize tough times spur people to want to take a machete to the team,
but that isn’t possible and it isn’t wise, either.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions
It's highly unlikely that only 3 of the players I mentioned ..
stay on the roster. But in perspective of being a GM, I am speaking in regards of who is untouchable and who isn’t.
"It's easy to do what's ordinary, it's difficult to do what's deemed impossible -- I guess that explains why my life is so hard, because nothing is impossible for me"
Ramirez has a no-trade clause AND
has a $16mil option for 2012 that gets triggered by any trade he agrees to. Who the hell is gonna want to pay him $16 mil next year? A trade is not likely.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
No it's not. I obviously didn't mean him.
He’s gone after this year regardless.
"It's easy to do what's ordinary, it's difficult to do what's deemed impossible -- I guess that explains why my life is so hard, because nothing is impossible for me"
2012 does not get triggered
Ramirez still has his player option. The only thing that happens is that the team loses it’s option. Just sayin’.
by jerry morales rules on May 28, 2011 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions
no he does not
as has been posted by myself and many others, next years option is a club option, but his option year triggers if traded
here it is again
and I will bold the 2012 detials for those who keep saying its a player option
Aramis Ramirez 3b
5 years/$75M (2007-11), plus 2012 club option
5 years/$75M (2007-11), plus 2012 club option
re-signed by Cubs as a free agent 11/06
$5M signing bonus
07:$8M, 08:$14M, 09:$15.65M, 10:$15.75M, 11:$14.6M player option, 12:$16M club option ($2M buyout)
full no-trade clause 2007-10, $1M assignment bonus if traded
Ramirez has right to void contract after 2010 & become a free agent
award bonuses: $75,000 each for Gold Glove or All Star selection, $0.25M for LCS MVP, $0.3M for MVP,$0.35M for WS MVP
Ramirez may void 2012 option, but doing so forfeits $2M buyout
2012 option becomes guaranteed if Ramirez:
wins one MVP in 2007-11, or
places 2nd or 3rd in MVP vote twice in 2007-11, or
wins LCS MVP once in 2007-11, or
is an All Star 3 times in 2007-11, or
is traded & Ramirez exercises 2011 option
Ramirez exercised 2011 player option 11/10
4 years/$42M (2005-08), plus 2009 mutual option
signed extension 4/05, replacing 1 year/$8.95M deal for 2005 signed 1/05 (avoided arbitration, $10.25M-$8M)
$1M signing bonus
05:$8M, 06:$10.5M, 07:$11M, 08:$11.5M, 09:$11M mutual option (option is guaranteed with 270 games 2007-08)
Ramirez has right to void contract after 2006 & become a free agent
exercised right to void final 2 years & become free agent 10/06
3 years/$9.5M (2002-04)
02:$0.5M, 03:$3M, 04:$6M
agent: Paul Kinzer
ML service: 11.111
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
Ditka's mustache can kill two stones with one bird
It is better to spend money like there's no tomorrow than to spend tonight like there's no money! - Irish toast.
slcathena is my wonder twin, and our battle cry is "Twinners rooting for the Winners (by which I mean Starwin and Darwin)"
He keeps his option. Club loses it's option. Like I wrote.
Ramirez may void 2012 option
by jerry morales rules on May 28, 2011 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions
it is a club option that triggers if traded
there is no player option written into it. now we have seen before where a player agrees to waive the option to be traded
Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka
Ditka's mustache can block a Chuck Norris round house
Ditka's mustache can kill two stones with one bird
It is better to spend money like there's no tomorrow than to spend tonight like there's no money! - Irish toast.
slcathena is my wonder twin, and our battle cry is "Twinners rooting for the Winners (by which I mean Starwin and Darwin)"
You're getting this off of Cot's right?
What Cot’s puts out there is only a summary of the deal. It seems strange to me that Ramirez would negotiate this particular clause in the first place and then give himself less of an option once it got enacted. It doesn’t make sense.
2012 Option becomes guaranteed
still says to me that the team option becomes guaranteed, I don’t see where it says that Ramirez loses his option to void 2012 if he desires.
From the Cubs’ perspective, once they traded him, what would they care if he had an option or not? I guess unless they thought that adding an automatic year to his deal would make him more valuable in a trade. Seems strange.
by jerry morales rules on May 28, 2011 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions
What it probably means is that it would cost several $M to trade Ramirez, as he would have to give up the right to the additional $14M in 2012 to get an acquiring team to take him
At that point, why bother? Just run out the string, whenever that may be, pay him his $2M and be done
Right, and the other point is...
… the way Ramirez is playing right now, what team would want to trade for him?
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Atlanta wanted Lee last year
All it takes is one serious injury come July
I agree
It’s really a moot point.
It seems that Ramirez will exercise his option for 2012 as, even with a severely depleted 3B FA class, he won’t be getting multi million, multi year deals. So, if h’s traded, 2012 is pretty much guaranteed. My guess is that he Cubs want to get out from under this deal and they’d be happy to pay the $2M buyout.
by jerry morales rules on May 29, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd agree with this. I'd move a little more quickly, but any time is fine, really.
If they can find a taker for Dome, they should pay as much as necessary to move him and end that 4-year boondoggle.
Obviously, it would be nice to move Aramis. But there are 16 million reasons why that’s unlikely.
It would be simple enough to move Byrd if his contract wasn’t backloaded and his face was still structurally sound. As it is, it will be tough to move him at the deadline.
Dempster is, for better or worse, a team leader. I’d keep him, too. I’d move Z for the right offer, but I’d have to be seriously swayed.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Really?
Montero for Zambrano… would you do it?
"It's easy to do what's ordinary, it's difficult to do what's deemed impossible -- I guess that explains why my life is so hard, because nothing is impossible for me"
Of course.
If you can get a legitimate elite A-list prospect, you have to take that chance. I would NOT move him for salary relief or mid-level guys.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Hmmm
The only position he can play is 1B. The only “difference maker” free agents this off season play 1B.
I’m not saying that under different circumstances I wouldn’t do the deal, I’m just not sure I’d do it this year.
by jerry morales rules on May 28, 2011 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions
getting montero would leave money open for an ace FA in the future
not mention if you can trade a mediocre pitcher with a huge contract for a top 5 prospect, you do it
flippity floppity floop
by jesus christos on May 28, 2011 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, but in the future
The team need to get a lot better now. There has to be a playoff run next season. The Cubs aren’t a mid market team that can say that they will be good “a few years into the future”.
by jerry morales rules on May 28, 2011 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Thank you
That’s what I mean whan I say this isn’t Pittsburgh. You can’t aim for a success three or four years down the road that might never come.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Then someone
needs to mind the checkbook a little better because Jimbo has wasted good money on poor product.
of course - far better to aim for success now and fail miserably at it three or four years in a row
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Why can't they? It's not like the large market mentality has done much for them lately.
What would play better – adopting a mid-market approach and executing it successfully? Or act like a big-market and do it terribly?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Acting like a big market
and doing it well. That’s what.
The more times you knock on the door, the more likely it’s going to open.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 29, 2011 12:53 AM CDT up reply actions
It's funny because even though the Cubs are a big market team
they haven’t been in a position to act like one. Too many bloated contracts and NTCs wasted on mediocre veterans have tied up the payroll for the past couple seasonsl.
Now, that will hopefully begin to change with money starting to come off the books after this year. Then again, that money will need to be spent far more wisely than in seasons past.
"...and doing it well." Duh!
Problem is, they haven’t been doing it well. It seems the Cubs have been knocking on a brick wall lately – and last I checked, brick walls don’t answer.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
And Pena
in the 1st group. Keep Dome at a better price.
Marshall could be valuable in helping get rid of Sori.
Also I’d move Demp if it meant getting something really good in return. He’s nice, but they could replace him with a FA. He may be our most valuable piece in July.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on May 28, 2011 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions
The bleachers were packed, had to be at capacity,
of course my group showed up during the 1st, but there was literally nowhere to sit out there. Seemed to be more people than seats. And yes, I know better than to show up at or after gametime for bleacher seats.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
How can a team with a third of the Cubs' payroll (Tampa Bay)....
….be a perennial contender and the Cubs stink???
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
They were perennially crappy
until three years ago.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 28, 2011 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions
And they had a really awesome hit rate on draft picks.
It isn’t just their first rounders that built that organization- but the first rounders more or less all panned out.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Helps when you have a GM...
smart enough to pull off moves like Rafael Soriano for nothing. Any team in baseball could have made that trade; the Rays making that move had nothing to do with how they draft. And then when they let him go, they picked up more draft picks when they offer arbitration, like they did with all of their free agent relievers (10 extra picks in total). Contrast that with what the Cubs did when Kerry Wood became a free agent…
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions
The Cubs have acted in precisely the opposite fashion.
We NEVER offer arbitration in order to acquire more picks. Simply will not do it.
I think part of it is that the team doesn’t want to spend on 2 #1 draft picks. They barely want to spend on one of them.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Who was their scouting director in 2004 and 2005?
Oh yeah. Tim Wilken.
by Josh Timmers on May 28, 2011 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I was under the impression that he would only work for Jim Hendry.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
No, I think the impression is he will leave if Hendry leaves
Which is different
We'll all miss you Ron.
Al
another horrible and embarrassing game. Were the fans smiling and having a good laugh because it was still fun? It even looks like barney and Castro have lost some of their exuberance.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
You're going to start this "laugh" stuff again?
What, are people supposed to sit stonefaced and do nothing if the team is having a bad game?
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I'm not sure why people think you have to be miserable at a ballgame
if your team is playing badly.
It’s a ballgame, for heaven’s sake. Not a tax audit or a funeral.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 29, 2011 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I had to say that I wish the cubs had jumped on...
Ferrell the new blue jays manager and former red sox pitching coach.
That said I don’t hate quade. Anyone who got the job this year would be a sacrificial lamb, and there was no point in hiring a name guy just yet. This Roster sucks, therefore the manager will often look really bad. No big name would help that.
I also dont get the obsession with ryno as a manager…he’d be killed with this roster. Quade, in that sense, was the logical choice. He’s old and experienced enough to take the beating, and then maybes the chance a few guys find lightening in a bottle.
by SenorGato on May 28, 2011 7:56 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Farrell...
would have been a fantastic hire. He’ll be a good leader for that team, which is in an impossible competitive situation. There were few places Sandberg could have landed a ML job in the offseason and Toronto was one of them. I don’t fault them for going for Farrell over Sandberg.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on May 28, 2011 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions
i have stayed away from the comments sections for the last week or 2
knowing that it couldnt be bad. i was waiting for the bad stretch to bow over. looks like it may not blow over until the season ends.
i suspect major changes in the offseason.
i predict hendry/quade both gone.
and one major player with a bad contract traded, most of contract eaten of course. (or a prospect throw-in)
They both (stats & bikinis) show a lot, but not everything. - Infielder Toby Harrah
Poster formerly known as Wrigster.
For those of you interested in baseball
Two very interesting games tonight. Twins & Angels scoreless in the bottom on the 7th. Liriano was supposed to start but he couldn’t so the Twins through in a rookie,Anthony Swarzak with an ERA of just under 8 in 7.1 innings and so far he has that thing one does not mention through 7.
The Rockies also had to use a new guy in this case someone making his MLB debut, he has given up 1 run through 5 to the Cardinasl while the Rockies pounded Cards ace Garcia for 11 runs in 3.1 innings, they now lead 12-1 in the 5th.
Some people are having fun watching baseball
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
Swarzak is doing great. Interestingly enough, he's replacing Liriano,
who was scratched this afternoon.
"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo
Angels' Weaver has given up only 2 hits, good game
So of course Fox is forcing KC 0 – Tex 10 on us here.
alas no no broken up with one out in the 8th
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
The Pirates are 16-6 in their last 22 against the Cubs
If they could play the Cubs every day, they would probably win the NL Central!!
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Taking pitches
Last year Pitt was 11th in number of pitches taken. This year they are 1st. Last year we were 10th. This year we’re 15th.
However, we’re 4th in R/G and Pitt is 13th. Yes, we’re terrible RISP but our biggest problem is that the only team giving up more runs than us are the Astros. Unless our pitching improves, expect more losses than wins. BTW, Iowa team ERA is 6.82. That is dead last of all minor league teams.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Thank for looking that up
I know it was not just my imagination. The inability to take pitches is driving me nuts.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on May 28, 2011 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Reccomendations
Bring up Jackson… totally start over with the pitching rotation. Casey Coleman sucks and will never be good. Same to Randy Wells as far as I am concerned. Same to James Russell. Get them out of here period. Bringing up Jackson will pressure our OFs to produce more. No clutch hitting at all. Absolutely no positives I can take out of anything right now. Distraught.
by columbusOHcubsfan on May 28, 2011 9:08 PM CDT reply actions
I'm not giving up on Wells yet.
I’d like to see him 4 or 5 starts from now thru to the finish before I can say that.
by jerry morales rules on May 28, 2011 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions
piece of crap wells sucking in his first start in over a month!
damn him!
flippity floppity floop
by jesus christos on May 28, 2011 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions
WWJD?
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Please for the love of God
Bring Back Tyler Colvin! Campana looks like a 5 year old, and should be used strictly for pinch running purposes only. Or just demote him! PLEASE!!!
I see Cub fans as much patience as the players do at the plate.
It is one thing to be disgusted with A-Ram and how he has played all season, to go after Campana
in a week is a bit nuts especialy considering Colvin was horrible when he was sent down and is not doing that great in Iowa.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on May 28, 2011 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Just wanted to let you know
that Hurdle wasn’t trying to dis the Cubs – Pearce came out because he injured himself sliding to 2B after he drove in two runs. Hope the Cubs get it together (after we leave town of course) – although I’m a long-suffering Bucs fan, TBS and WGN were the only channels for baseball back in the stone-age, so I have a soft spot for the Cubs. Regards.
What does that mean?!
Ricketts
here is the picture about halfway down, just sad.
its looking
like a fire sale again this year.not much to sell. baker maybe.you might find someone to take ramirez. maybe going to a team where he cant get away with coasting might wake up his bat.big z no. still one of our better pitchers.we came out of spring training healthy as a horse and watched the wheels fall off.and why are the cardinals in 1st with all their injuries? this team was scrappy in the beginning but i can see the quit in them coming out.i usually dont give up till the all star break but i cant see the cubs rebounding from all these injuries.
and
dont dis campana.these are the cubs of the future.we spent millions on guys like garza and pena and you see what you got. if nobody is gonna come to the park anymore you might as well go young.
Campana is not a huge part of the future of this team.
On a good team, he’s the 25th man, a pinch runner/defensive replacement.
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Hey, Al, look at the Cardinals depth
with all their injuries they plug in Jon Jay, Daniel Descalso and Allen Craig and don’t miss a beat. Those guys are legit big league prospects. This Cubs have no impact guys they can bring up with all the injuries. The pitching depth is just a joke too.
Not to a beat dead horse, but what Ricketts sees in Hendry is just beyond me….Hendry has failed this organization in so many ways the last three seasons and this year is over on May 29th.
Campana is not the future
Sam Fuld is a better player than Campana.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
by rlpete on May 29, 2011 7:42 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
one final
note.maybe we can bring up the daytona cubs to replace the team we have.
Quade experiment is not working either
that’s what it is when you hire a manger after 37 games last year, no bounce or juice at all this year. Look at the mangers who were hired last year and nearly all are doing better than Quade…..Clint Hurdle, Kirk Gibson, marlins manager Rodriguez, Eric Wedger has turned Seattle around and he actually interviewed for the Cubs job, Reincke in Milwaukee….only Mattingly has a worse record than Quade.
That’s what happens when you get your players manager, by the way, how do you take a guy seriously when he refers to every play by their nickname? Qaude is just one of the guys, if Hendry goes at the end of the year I believe Quade is gone too.
wouldn't that be great: both hendry and quade gone....!!!
And the era of Sori, MBradley, Dome, gone as well….
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
If the Cubs don't care,why should I?
What a sad sad team.
I just don’t think the Cubs care one way or the other
Their games are harder and harder to watch
I think “listless” is a prefect word for the 2011 Cubs
Well, listless certainly is how I'd describe the fans
Again: Don’t project your feelings.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 29, 2011 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
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