Cubs Minor League Wrap: May 4
by Josh Timmers on May 4, 2011 10:23 PM CDT
in Minor Leagues
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PrintHome alone watching the pre-schooler tonight, so we're going to keep this one short. But be sure to see who pitched against Daytona tonight. And a great pitching performance by Peoria.
Iowa Cubs
The Iowa Cubs roped the Round Rock Express, 3-1.
Ramon Ortiz started and got his first I-Cub win by tossing seven strong innings. He allowed only one run on four hits. Ortiz walked one and struck out five.
Scott Maine nailed down his fifth save with a scoreless ninth. He allowed no hits but walked one. Maine fanned two.
Catcher Chris Robinson was 2 for 3 with an RBI and a run scored. First baseman Bryan LaHair went 2 for 4 with a double. Shortstop Matt Camp went 2 for 2.
Tennessee Smokies
The Smokies were extinguished by the Mobile Bay Bears, 4-3.
Starter Brooks Raley lasted five innings and allowed three runs on six hits. One of the three runs was unearned. Raley walked three and only struck out one.
Blake Parker entered the game with the score tied entering the bottom of the ninth. He gave up the winning run on two hits and two walks, one intentional and one semi-intentional. A leadoff single in the inning ended up on third base after a Brett Jackson fielding error. He did have one strikeout.
Jackson was 0 for 1 with three walks. He scored once an stole a base.
Daytona Cubs
The Daytona Cubs came from behind to topple the Tampa Yankees, 7-5.
Zachary Rosscup started and went 5.2 innings and allowed five runs on seven hits. Two of the five runs were charged as unearned. Rosscup walked one and struck out five.
Jordan Latham collected the win in relief. He wasn't charged with a run over 2.1 innings, although he did allow in two runners inherited from Rosscup. Latham allowed two hits. He walked one and struck out one.
Frank Batista pitched a perfect ninth for his seventh save. He had one strikeout.
The D-Cubs opposed Carlos Silva in this game. Silva's final line tonight was three innings and two runs on three hits and a walk. He struck out four.
One of the guys who got to Silva was center fielder Jae-Hoon Ha, who clubbed his fifth home run of the year off Silva in the first inning with a man on. Overall, Ha was 2 for 4 with four RBI. Ha also drew a walk, which was his fourth walk in eight games after not walking at all in his first 17 games. Now if he can just teach Junior Lake to take a walk.
Peoria Chiefs
The Peoria Chiefs chopped down the Clinton LumberKings (Mariners) 3-0 on a combined one-hitter.
Starter Cam Greathouse was dealing tonight, going seven innings and allowing only one single. He did have some control problems as he walked three and hit a batter, but he struck out eight.
Yohan Gonzalez pitched two innings and collected his second save. Gonzalez walked one and fanned one.
Center fielder Matt Szczur was 2 for 4.
The Chiefs turned a triple play in this game in the seventh inning when the first two LumberKing batters reached with an error by the shortstop Eliot Soto and a walk. Soto redeemed himself by then catching a line drive and turning it into a triple play. It was the Chiefs first triple play since 2007.
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How many hot dogs did Silva eat?
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
That wasn't in the boxscore
I’d like to say the fans chanted “Ha! Ha! Ha!” but the game was in Tampa.
The other thing is that the fans in Daytona Beach shout “Hoon! Ha!” and not “Ha, ha, ha!”
by Josh Timmers on May 4, 2011 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions
but we know there wasn't mustard on them, probably deep fried corn dogs
…2R’s in 3 IP in A ball for a former MLB pitcher making how much and this is not a injury rehab?
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Callups
I tend to believe Szczur and Ha will be promoted around the same time.. Maybe mid-June if they keep this up?
I was about to ask what the deal with Ha was/timetable for promotion.
Wake Forest '12
Mother So Dear
I think that's a safe guess
Although all of this is going to depend on how they continue to hit. No one is getting promoted if they have a poor May.
The Cubs often shake up the minor league system at mid-season. So right after the draft is the normal time to make moves.
The one thing with Ha though is that the Cubs have generally been very conservative with promotions on their Asian players under the assumption that its tough enough to get used to living in America without getting shuffled around a lot. But this is Ha’s third year in the states and I think they’ll probably be less cautious with him now.
by Josh Timmers on May 4, 2011 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Speaking on the topic of the Cubs asian players
Hak-Ju Lee is batting .410 in the FSL for Tampa.Did he have a growth spurt? He’s listed at 6’2" now.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
He's always been that
I checked my old MSP guide. That’s what I listed him at in 2010.
by Josh Timmers on May 5, 2011 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions
If he adds weight to that frame
He can become a more dangerous hitter.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Likely at the expense of his speed, though
Lee’s value is all tied to his speed and defense.
He's going to add normal weight...and it shouldn't impact his speed.
It’s not like we’re talking about doing crazy workouts and hulking up.
He’s listed 6’2" 170 for crying out loud. He’s a string bean!
He might be 185…
He should be over 200.
BTW, Jose Canseco stole 40 bases at 250-260 lbs.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Let's not use any production Canseco had as proof of anything
other than the advantages gained by roiding.
But I get what you're saying about the normal weight
I thought you were suggesting he hit the weight room hard in order to try and put muscle on. It just doesn’t make sense to do that with some players, and Lee would be one of them.
Good for him
I’m glad to hear he’s doing well.
by jerry morales rules on May 5, 2011 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Josh where do you think Ha's time table is?
is he goign to hit for enough pop to maybe move to a corner?
He's got the arm for right field
He might have to move there eventually but for now, they’ll leave him in center field and see if he can handle that.
As far as a timetable goes, he could get a promotion to AA at mid-season if he continues to hit like this. Anything beyond that is dependent on how he does in Double-A.
by Josh Timmers on May 5, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
So silva won't play for the cubs minor league team
But he will the yanks. I’ve never said this before, but I hope he never sees another major league game. I take that back. I hope he comes up for the yanks and gets shelled.
Now he has zero choice
When he said no to the Cubs did he think someone else would sign him to a major league deal. No one did, so here he is
by Madison Cub Fan on May 5, 2011 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions
They had a no-hitter last season
Although it was a rain-shortened five inning one by Nick Struck.
by Josh Timmers on May 5, 2011 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Tennesse is leading the Southern League in team batting average (.306)
Mobile is a distant second at .285
Daytona is batting .280… good for 3rd in the FSL (St. Lucie leads at .284).
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Funny how our minor league teams usually do pretty well and the Cubs suck haha
Hopefully that success will be coming up soon!
Wake Forest '12
Mother So Dear
Of the LHPs...
Kirk
Raley
Greathouse
which one has the best upside as a LH SP? Who has the best fastball?
I wouldn’t mind Jed Bradley in this system to give the Cubs a LH SP with some TOR upside.
Kirk for both
His upside could be that of a nice #3, IMO. The others are more #5 starter ceiling types, if that. While none of them are Randy Johnson with the FB, Kirk at least hits in the 90’s. Raley and Greathouse work more in the high 80’s, unless they have experienced some more velocity this year.
And yes, Jed Bradley would be a great pick for us if he were there.
What to make of Raley's athleticism?
He’s as touted as any player in the system for his athleticism. How does that make people feel about his projection moving forward? I"ve heard he’s hit 92, though yeah he’s usually working at a mostly unimpressive 86-89.
Agreed
About him being all projection. He was a two-way player in college and the hope was that the focus on pitching, combined with his athletecism would allow him to ramp up his stuff. I haven’t seen anything to suggest that this has been the case.
Also...what's the deal with Whitenack? I don't follow the Cubs minor leaguers as much as I should.
Wake Forest '12
Mother So Dear
Apparently it isn't anymore
He’s essentially scrapped the pitch in favor of a true slider. The big key for him this year has been more velocity, while still having that tremendous sinking action. Before, hew as 89-91 with his FB. This year, he is 91-93 and running it up to 94. He throws the afromentioned slider and a changeup to compliment it, but it sounds like he is pre-injury Brandon Webb right now (at least in terms of pitch usage).
That's good to know
Don’t we have anyone on this board from Central Illinois who goes to Chiefs games? Seems like in previous years, we’d get two or three reports on the Chiefs already.
by Josh Timmers on May 5, 2011 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Watch if the Cubs move Flaherty to 3B full time and then move Vitters over to 1B to compete for PT
Vitters has the stroke and he is still young, apparently he needs to re-dedicated himself to make himself better at this level—this is what competition is all about.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Flaherty
Josh,I’m trying not to panic about Vitters but is it conceivable that Flaherty could be an everyday 3B? I know that everyone talks about him as a utility guy and that he’s a bit old for AA but it sounds like he’s off to a decent start.
by Mmurton on May 5, 2011 8:21 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't know much
but the talk around here is Flaherty’s arm strength makes him questionable to hold down third.
This
He can play there in a pinch, but he’s definately not ideal there defensively. He has problems at every position, other than 1B, which is why he likely will be just a super-sub.
BABIP of .203
That is absurdly low. Once again, no need to worry about Vitters yet, at least offensively. Solid power numbers. Great K rate. BB rate has gone from abysmal to merely below average. He’s doing a much better job of working counts and getting better pitches to hit, they are just getting hit right at defenders.
BB rate
What BB rate do we think Vitters will need to maintain in order to be successful at ML level,8-9%? Is it just me or does this low walk rate epidemic in our system worry you guys?
by Mmurton on May 5, 2011 9:27 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Vitters is in the same mold as Starlin Castro
and Aramis Ramirez before either of them. They are aggressive hitters that don’t walk much, but don’t strike out much either. Aramis has made big strides in pitch selectivity since his early days, but he used to walk about 6% of the time. This low walk rate doesn’t preclude a guy from being a good player, though. Aramis himself posted the 2nd best WAR of his career in 2001 (5.2), while having a walk rate of 6.1%.
It certainly is harder to be productive in the bigs if you don’t walk a lot, but Vitters has the hit tool, power and lack of strikeouts to be able to pull of a successful career if he walks 6% of the time. If he walks under that, though, the chances get considerably worse, IMO.
by RynoRooter on May 5, 2011 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And as far as the system goes, we've made some huge strides there.
Small sample size, yes, but here are some early walk rates:
Brett Jackson – 16.7%
Matt Szczur – 11.8%
Micah Gibbs – 16.2%
Matt Cerda – 14%
Michael Burgess – 8.1%
Ryan Flaherty – 9.7%
Rebel Ridling – 10.2%
Justin Bour – 12.6%
Steve Clevenger – 9.5%
Blake Lalli – 12.1%
The guys that have the low walk rates seem to be much like Vitters, Castro, Ramirez, etc, in that they don’t strike out much either.
Jae-Hoon Ha – 3.5% BB, 9.3% K
Vitters – 5.2% BB, 6.7% K
DJ LeMahieu – 6.5% BB, 9.2% K
Then there's Junior Lake
102 plate appearances 28 strikeouts, zero walks. He was hit by a pitch, once.
by Josh Timmers on May 5, 2011 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, he is completely allergic to walks
It’s sad, too, as he has every other tool at his dispense.
As I just now noted below
I’m pretty sure he was benched last week for ignoring a take sign and swinging 3-0.
by Josh Timmers on May 5, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think there's cause for worry, yet.
There is, however, some continued cause for “lack of huge enthusiasm”. We were all hoping that he’d be quick out of the gate and dominate AA, as he’s done with every other lower level on his 2nd time around.
So, maybe time to recalibrate the expectations. For now, let’s hope that the OBP gets up over .300 this month. Is there any explanation for that .202 BABIP other than “hitting it right at guys”? Is he making good contact? I can’t find things like LD% for Tennessee, but the SLG would indicate that, when he’s getting hits, he’s generally hitting it hard. More than half of his hits are for extra bases.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I wouldn't say he dominated Daytona...
He was solid, but not dominant. His stat line (in a small sample size) was .291/.350/.445 (.795 OPS).
I'm trying to be optimistic here!
So far, its been a barrel of underwhelming, and I’m trying to paint things in the best possible light. You’re right, of course.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Yeah, I think the main key is that he's still young...
But hopefully we start seeing some positive signs. He has shown some power this year in a limited sample size – maybe that continues? And of course the average will climb as the season progresses, hopefully to a really good level. But I think a recalibration of expectations may be appropriate. Those expecting him to be the starting 3B in Chicago next year are likely to be disappointed.
Ortiz
I gathered this from the morning paper here in Des Moines…….Ortiz must have baffled the Round Rock Express giving up his third hit in the 7th inning (R.R. had 14 runs and 24 hits combined Monday and Tuesday). In seven innings, Ortiz allowed four hits, walked one and struck out five. Chris Robinson said he threw four or five different sliders and had them shaking their heads.
For a team needing starting pitching, this was encouraging!
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
Szczur stole another base last night
As I mentioned before, look for this to start happening a lot now that he is healthy.
Hopefully that was Ortiz' last start in AAA
Hopefully he will replace Russell in the rotation before the next time the Cubs need a fifth starter. .
by jerry morales rules on May 5, 2011 9:19 AM CDT reply actions
Also want to give a shout out to Kevin Rhoderick
This guy has been flying through the system so far, pretty much unnoticed. He signed at the deadline last year and didn’t get to make his debut in 2010. He gets a very aggressive placement at High A where he kills it and then gets promoted to AA already.
Yes, he’s a reliever, but it’s still fun to see a guy move through the system this quickly. Between the two stops, Rhoderick has made 9 appearances and has the following line:
17.1 IP, 2-0, 1.56 ERA, 9 H, 8 BB, 25 Ks, 0.98 WHIP, 12.98 K/9
Good note on KR.
He was the closer at OSU, I believe… guys like that can move quickly.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
Rhoderick and Szcur
I had high hopes for Rhoderick, he was one of the guys I was stressing a little on that he might not sign. He should move quickly.
Szcur, I hope he doesn’t move anywhere for a bit. I hope to see a game or two of his in Cedar Rapids. I’ll try and provide a thoughtful write-up afterwards. No real rush to move him yet. June or later is fine if he keeps the pace up. This is his first year, and he’s had some injuries.
Doug Davis
Today in Daytona so far, 6IP, 7K, 2H, 0BB
Big game for Junior Lake as well
He’s 3-5 and only a double short of a cycle.
I'd rather see him draw three walks
He got benched last week, I’m sure for ignoring a take sign and swinging 3-0.
by Josh Timmers on May 5, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
That's like hoping for Theriot to hit 2 HRs in a game
It may have happened before, but it won’t even happen again. Lake just isn’t going to walk, and thus, should probably be tried out as a pitcher.
I wouldn't write him off yet.
He had a decent enough walk rate last year and has some of the best tools in the organization. He’s only 21 so he’s got plenty of time to figure it out.
Combined with his K rate, it really wasn't that decent
To K that much, you need to either walk a ton or hit for a ton of power (preferably both). Lake has shown he won’t walk that much, and while he has the raw power, it hasn’t really come through as far as results.
Lake=Marmol
+1 on the idea of turning him into a short reliever. Hopefully, his walk allergy would carry over!
by Mmurton on May 5, 2011 2:32 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Oy...
wanted to make this it’s own separate thread but decided that I’m lazy.
Why/how is Brett Jackson not considered a top tier prospect in the world of prospect talk? He’s often mentioned for his athleticism and surprising polish, but otherwise I always get the feeling that his upside is a little underrated. What’re the general thoughts on his ceiling here? Does the fact that he’s hitting for very strong average this year give him legit .300 hopes in the majors? I still see him as a guy who’ll hit from .275-.300, but anyone thing that got bumped up to maybe .280-.300+ with strong ISOs?
I'm very curious about the power...
For a number of reasons…one because he’s big…two because he’s a very compact and squared hitter at the plate, which surprised me…three because for the most part he’s put up ISO SLGs around .180 in the minors….four because he’s was this projectable, athletic prospect drafted on his tools…
I’m starting to believe that he’s going to hit anywhere from 15 to 25 HRs on a regular basis, and we might even see a 30+ season in there.
Because everyone says
his ceiling is low, primarily because he doesn’t make enough contact. His defense in CF is decent, but not spectacular. But I agree with you. I think some of the prospect mavens sell him short and I think a lot of that is based on his Cal career, which was good but not spectacular. A lot of people around here were disappointed/upset when we drafted him. If they redid the 2009 draft again, I think Jackson would go in the top 10.
I agree with you that Jackson should be ranked higher. I see him as a .280/.370/.460 guy with 20 steals. I also think the odds of him reaching that are pretty darn good. But the high rankings usually go to guys they think have a chance to hit 40 HRs or hit .320.
To be fair though, Baseball America did rank him at #38 going into this season. That’s pretty good.
And then there is KLaw....
who stubbornly refuses to even put him in the top 100.
My projected stat line is pretty close to yours – .270/.370/.470 – I think the K rate keeps his average down, the great BB rate keeps his OBP up, and while he isn’t likely to have more than 25 HR pop at the max, he will hit plenty of 2Bs and his speed will help him leg out his fair share of triples. I think his basestealing threat is terribly underrated as well. To this point in his career, he is 53 of 68 (78%) in SB attempts in 211 professional games. That would come out to over 40 SBs in a 162 game season. Tempering the expectations due to better catchers in the majors and the pitchers being better at holding runners, I still see no reason why BJax can’t be a 30 SB threat.
Law is stubborn
I like him, but damn he’s stubborn. He ranked Jackson something like #56 going into the 2009 draft and he’s been very, very slow to change his opinion of him. Part of this is because he’s got to do double-duty as an amateur and a minor league guy and I don’t think he gets to see very many of these guys once they start their professional careers. I also don’t think he trusts other people’s opinions much, so he’s not going to change until he sees the guy play himself.
Still, he was one of the first to start saying the Hayden Simpson pick was a good one. He’s got an odd relationship with the Cubs because we don’t share his drafting philosophy, but he worked with Tim Wilken in Toronto and respects him as a person and a talent evaluator a lot.
So B Jax
Will potentially be a 20+home rune 20+ sb’s 280 ish player in mlb? That’s like the perfect fantasy baseball player lol:) that sounds awesome!!
by bleedinblue76 on May 5, 2011 8:32 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yep
And I’ve had in my minor league spot in my NL only league since last April. Even better, it’s a league that uses OBP instead of AVE.
In other minor league news Eric Hosmer was called up today
Kila sent down.
Maybe we can get Kila Ka'aihue now!!!!
Are we still talking about Kila Ka’aihue? Or is that done now.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on May 5, 2011 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think it's done.
He just doesn’t seem to be able to hit major league pitching. Kind of Micah Hoffpauir with walks.
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