The Cure for Bad Baseball
by GeoMak on Jun 1, 2011 4:19 AM CDT
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Twice as long as Basketball & Hockey, ten times as long as the NFL, the baseball season goes on forever. Which is great if you are winning or at least playing well. Conversely it's torture if you are losing or, even worse, suffering from the affliction known as BAD BASEBALL.
The Cubs play bad baseball. Really bad.
For a blueprint in turning things around perhaps ownership should look out west to the Arizona Diamondbacks. Coincidentally the Diamondbacks were once brought into existence largely by the force of their original Owner/Managing General Partner Jerry Colangelo, who grew up in Chicago Heights as a life long Cubs fan.
It's alright to look at the Diamondbacks. After all I'm pretty sure they're the only team in baseball founded by a Cubs fan. There's something to be said for that. They play in an airport hanger on the scorched desert Earth known as Phoenix, Arizona but at least they have won a WS title in the last 100 years. Unlike some people we know.
Living here in Phoenix I've listened to the hosts and the fans on sports talk radio complain endlessly in recent years abut the Diamondbacks. Not just the losing but in the mostly awful baseball being played which led to said losing. 'It's one thing to lose' went the local lament, 'but do we have to look this bad in doing so?'
So, to their credit ownership finally did something about their case of Bad Baseball. They fired GM Josh Brynes with five years left on his contract and replaced him with well respected GM Kevin Towers, who had recently ran the Padres to four division titles and one World Series appearance in fourteen seasons, mostly on a limited budget.
Towers specializes in building bullpens and emphasizes Pitching and Defense. Pitching and Defense. Imagine that.
Next they permanately hired interim manager Kirk Gibson who had recently taken over for fired manager AJ Hinch. Hinch had been hand picked by former GM Josh Byrnes to manage the club. Not only did Hinch have no managing experience but he had never even been a base coach at any level in baseball before managing at the major league level.
See, stupid decisions are even made by GM's not named Jim Hendry, believe it or not.
When it all got to be too much for the owners and the fans last season they fired Brynes & Hinch and they promoted Gibson from bench coach to field manager. Gibson is well respected, old-school and passionate, stressing concepts like Fundamentals and Accountability. Fundamentals & Accountability. Imagine that.
Most importantly is this: Even before the Diamondbacks caught fire the last few weeks and surged into first place the locals were basically saying this on talk radio: "At least we're not playing Bad Baseball anymore." This was BEFORE they started winning. They were at least somewhat enjoyable to watch. Certainly compared to the last few seasons.
For more insight on their turnaround I'd suggest reading this recent column in the Arizona Republic by former Chicagoan Dan Bickley. http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diamondbacks/articles/2011/05/19/20110519arizona-diamondbacks-passion.html
The Cubs?
Tom Ricketts and company need to clean house soon and start to develop and organizational philosophy. One that hopefully puts an end to the dreaded disease known as Bad Baseball.
Asking people to pay for and watch six months of Bad Baseball constitutes cruel and unusual punishment simply for committing the crime of being a Cubs fan. Most of us I would assume didn't choose this lifestyle but instead were born into it.
It's one thing to lose. We've had 100 years of that. But looking and playing this badly in doing so simply has to stop. This disease known as Bad Baseball MUST BE ERADICATED!
That's the least we f'ing deserve.
Many heads must roll when a team with one of the highest payrolls in the league plays this badly. It's really just that simple.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Bad baseball in Boston
I live in CT and recently attended the Sunday night Cub game at Fenway Park. What I noticed watching the Cubs in person (and it stood out even more in contrast to the Red Sox) was our utter lack of talent. This is one of the most pathetic Cub teams I can remember; thank God I didn’t get the MLB package this year. Red Sox fans were even nice to us; I’m sure because they looked at the Cubs coming to town as a favor done to them by the MLB schedule-maker. We are miles and years away from contending and if Hendry trades away anymore young pitching for old and washed-up pitching, he needs a pie in the face.
actually basketball and hockey goes on longer
but you are right about the Cubs … they play bad baseball.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
hard to tell from his post
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jun 1, 2011 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Well I read "Twice as long as Basketball & Hockey"
82 games for NHL and NBA, roughly half of 162 game MLB season.
Yes I was referring to # of games played
While most sports seasons are probably similar in length, baseball is played almost every day.
Which makes it really difficult to watch an entire season of bad baseball.
Byrnes is pretty well thought of, no?
He was canned in July 2010… whose players do you think Towers is winning with?
(I know, I know, the same could be said of Hendry if a new GM comes in and has success over the next year)
All teams have talent
The problem with Brynes is he started to think he was a genius and let everyone know it. He wasn’t.
Trading a guy like Carlos Quentin for nothing didn’t help his cause.
Neither did firing the well liked and respected Bob Melvin for a manager like AJ Hinch who had no managing and almost no field experience.
But you bring up the essential point here. Basically the same players:
1. Terrible, almost unwatchable baseball last few seasons.
2. Winning, much better played baseball now.
The difference? Basically a new GM and new Manager and the things the new guys are doing that the previous guys weren’t.
The difference? Basically a new GM and new Manager and the things the new guys are doing that the previous guys weren’t.
Um, well that and the little things like actually having an actual bullpen.
In 2010 their bullpen’s ERA was 5.74. That is not a typo. It was the highest in baseball by an entire run (over the second worst team – your Chicago Cubs). They were credited with 32 losses.
In 2011 their bullpen ERA is 3.24. That’s a massive, massive difference and the single biggest contributor to their success.
To Towers’ credit, building good pens is a one of his skills.
Also don't forget...
Kelly Johnson, Justin Upton, Stephen Drew, and Chris Young blossoming into a great offensive AND defensive core….and then the development of pitchers Kennedy and Hudson especially.
The Diamondbacks, like the Rays, weren’t built in a day.
Those guys were all pretty good last year
The dramatic change in bullpen performance is signficantly bigger than any incremental improvements from those guys.
Justin Upton is an interesting case with regards to Kirk Gibson
Upton is often criticized by the local fans for not being a more dominant player.
Upton has no bigger fan than Kirk Gibson.
Years ago while Gibson was the bench coach, Upton was verbally blasted by a fan by the dugout for getting thrown out at third. Gibson wrote a short note and passed it to the fan which made the papers the next day.
Gibson told the fan in his note that Upton makes some mistakes but he gives his all and oftentimes the mistakes he makes are ones where he’s trying to hard to make things happen. As opposed to being lazy or stupid.
A lot goes on behind closed doors and yes, the manager matters. A lot.
Gibson is doing a great job with his young team.
I referenced the bullpen
Again, to be clear, that’s one of Tower’s strengths, which I also referenced.
Thanks for supporting my position.
Wreckard
Your criticism of me is laughable.
I referenced their horrible bullpen last season.
That said, see the words you highlighted above (a new GM . . . and the things the new guys are doing that the previous guys weren’t)?
Umm, one of the things the NEW GM (Towers) did that the old GM (Byrnes) didn’t was . . . yes build a BETTER BULLPEN!
Get it?
You do understand that one of the main jobs of a GM is to improve the roster, don’t you?
You confirm the exact point I was making while criticizing me.
What point is that Geo?
The point that the new GM is doing a BETTER job with his roster than the old GM. Get it?
Laughable.
Wow, touchy.
What I was disputing was this:
Basically the same players:
1. Terrible, almost unwatchable baseball last few seasons.
2. Winning, much better played baseball now.
It’s basically the same players… except for nearly everyone in the bullpen. Which is the main reason for their improvement this year.
Notice the word BASICALLY
It’s not a new team. There hasn’t been a complete overhaul.
It’s basically the same team with some additions from the new GM, which is why he was hired and why I referenced the job he and Gibson are doing as opposed to what’s going on in Chicago.
And again, as I stated, Tower’s strength is the bullpen and he builds his team around pitching and defense.
Which is why their starting third baseman, Mark Reynolds, was traded by Towers.
Even though Reynolds was their best HR hitter, he struck out way too much for Towers and had to go.
Regarding that trade (from the Arizona Republic):
“And the deal helps address their softest spot, a bullpen that was the worst in the majors last season.
“When I first took the job in Arizona, rebuilding the bullpen was paramount,” said Diamondbacks general manager Kevin Towers. "It’s been kind of a thorn in our side the last couple of years. We felt it would probably be difficult to add to our bullpen, to strengthen our bullpen, through free agency, based on our market size and resources.
“Sometimes you have to move a good ballplayer to be able to acquire good right-handed arms. We felt we have done so in with both Hernandez and Mickolio.”
It’s hard to imagine Hendry making a move like that.
Which was the basic point of my post!
Hopefully this helps clear things up for you.
Yes, we don't need a complete overhaul, we have several decent players
to serve as the foundation going forward, our opening day rotation, the back end of the bullpen, Soto, Barney, Castro, Byrd, Colvin, Campana, Baker, and yes even Reed all can stay. All the middle relief, Ramirez, Soriano, Hill, and Pena (although I like him) are expendable and have to go somehow, even if we eat much of their salary.
Soto, Barney, Byrd, Colvin, Campana, Baker and RJohnson???
That is the foundation for a 60 win season.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jun 2, 2011 7:36 AM CDT up reply actions
I think he is serviceable as a 5th outfielder.
Baker also as the last infielder. Both are versatile, I would not be upset to see them go either. I just don’t want to see, Sori, ARam, Fuku, next year. And I thought ARam would play like it was a contract year this season.
the point is
all but two of your keepers are serviceable backup players, not the kind of guys you build a team around.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jun 3, 2011 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions
No No No
The Arizona roster has been largely revamped since Byrnes left. Also, many of the key players who are still here weren’t brought in by Byrnes – Stephen Drew and Justin Upton were both drafted before Byrnes got here.
DiPoto brought in Ian Kennedy, Daniel Hudson, and Joe Saunders. Towers made a number of other moves, including revamping the entire bullpen, including closer J.J. Putz, who is 12 for 12 in save opportunities.
It is totally false to say that the D’Backs are winning with Byrnes players. In fact, the deals Josh made – signing Eric Byrnes to a long term contract, trading Carlos Quentin for nothing, etc, were a mixed bag at best.
Yes you are correct
My basic point was that all teams have talent. All teams also have a lot of player movement.
The key thing in all of sports is getting the most out of talent you have.
Vince Lombardi is the poster child for that concept. When he went to GB they were considered to be the NFL’s worst team. Getting tradedd to GB was considered to be a death sentence for most players.In fact he almost turned down the job cause he viewed it as a potential career killer.
Lombardi turned them into a dynasty.
He inherited ten players who eventually went to the HOF.
A). Those ten players were part of the ‘worst team in the league’ when he got there.
B). It’s extremely doubtful that most of those players would’ve made the HOF if Lombardi never arrived in GB.
The D-Backs are doing much better at getting the most out of their talent now than before.
Is that because of the new talent brought in and the old talent that has recently left? Sure to some degree. Last years bullpen was historically terrible. This year I would assume they are one of the best at this point in time..
It’s also, however, directly related to the difference in attitude and philosphies with the new Mgr. & GM.
I'll give you Putz
But Saunders has an ERA+ of 85 this year (15% worse than league average), Hudson’s is 98 (2% worse than league average), and Ian Kennedy came to the Diamondbacks in December 2009 – by Josh Byrnes.
I’m sorry, but you’re wrong.
by Brett Taylor on Jun 1, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
That's not 15% worse. It's 7.5% worse
People on BCB make this mistake all the time with ERA+ and OPS+. Each point is a half a percent.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 1, 2011 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions
My understanding comes from Hardball Times
It defines ERA+ as:
“ERA measured against the league average, and adjusted for ballpark factors. An ERA+ over 100 is better than average, less than 100 is below average. The specific formula divides the league ERA by the pitcher’s ERA (and adjusts for ballpark). So an ERA+ of 125, for instance, means that the league ERA was 25% higher than the pitcher’s ERA (which means that the pitcher’s ERA was 80% of the league ERA).”
I read that as saying a guy with a 125 ERA+ is 25% better than league average, in terms of adjusted ERA. Am I misreading?
Wrong?
I don’t think so.
You’re just going to ignore Duke, Hernandez, Hudson, Owings, Paterson, Putz, Saunders, Collmenter, Kroenke, Blanco, Burroughs, Miranda, Mora, Nady, and Bloomquist…ALL of whom have joined the D’Backs since Byrnes resigned.
Add Upton, Drew and Miguel Montero, all of whom joined the D’Backs before Byrnes did, and that is 18 players off the 25 man roster that Josh had nothing to do with.
I didn't ignore them
I responded to your point and the players you listed. Should I go through each of these additional players one-by-one as I did with Putz, Saunders, Hudson, and Kennedy and point out how they either (a) aren’t that great, (b) haven’t contributed to the D-Backs’ overall success, or © were actually acquired before Byrnes left? I’m not going to do that, but my point stands: the D-Backs’ roster is not as completely reworked in the last 11 months as you make it out to be. And neither is their success solely attributable to the players added in those 11 months.
Okay
Then clearly you have not watched this team and don’t have the first clue as to what you are talking about.
The only player I shouldn’t have included is Kennedy…and even without him there are 15 new players on the roster this year. And the vast majority of them have been strong contributors.
For example, in the game tonight, Towers signeee Willie Bloomquist started a 9th inning rally that led to a walk off hit by Upton…making a winner out of Putz. Hudson goes 7 innings and Hernandez gets a hold.
5 key players contributing to a win, and Byrnes had nothing to do with any of them.
You know that commercial where the little boy breaks into the concert hall and the pianist helps him play?
I well up. I mean, EVERY TIME.
Yeah, bite me. I’m a sap.
"It's all in the game, yo"
I've been pounding a drum
I’ve used this example at least 3 times
Eric Schmidt came in as CEO of Google a few years ago. The google founders realized they needed some help. They found someone who use to work for Apple, to help steer their ship.
Ricketts as a business man, needs someone to do that for the Cubs. He needs someone that has first hand experience knowing the product he is trying to sell. (baseball) A good baseball man. This person I believe has to be above the GM. B/c although the GM needs to be fired, firing him isn’t going to solve the Cubs problems.
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 1, 2011 10:27 AM CDT reply actions
Eric Schmidt never worked for Apple.
He never worked for Apple. He was on their board from 2006-2009, WHILE he was Google’s CEO.
Also, he’s been removed as CEO.
That said, I agree with the general point. Ricketts needs to recognize his limitations here. Buying a team with your dad’s money does not make you a baseball mogul, and it certainly doesn’t make you a baseball man.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 1, 2011 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Ricketts...
One of the first hires he made with the Cubs was hire a stat guy…which is impressive because he got the team in 2009 and the Cubs had been without a stat guy for that long into the 21st century.
The guy’s not sitting around piling up our money and laughing as the team loses, which is the image I feel he’s gotten here on BCB (as the Cubs online shill LAWLZ).
Did he make anyone take directions from the stat guy?
Hiring a stat guy and then having Hendry so the SOS just adds one more salary.
How would you or I know if he's taking direction from him?
Just the fact that there’s one in house now shows that Ricketts has some clue of where modern baseball is. For the past decade the Cubs have not be a team you’d think plays the numbers game, even when every other team (especially rich ones) was bringing in anyone with a brain that they could find.
Progress…I know there’s a little need here to find the tiniest negative here, but finding a sabermatrician to bring in counts as progress for this team. Not zomg this changes everything and the world is ours progress, but progress none the less.
Hopefully he goes numbers with the next GM too…Cherington or Cashman.
On that little negative...
who cares about adding another salary? What, that new salary is going to tear down one of MLB’s oldest and richest franchises?
You are right it wasn't apple that he worked for years I was mistaken
It was sun microsystems that he worked for many years not apple. :)
But we agree on the point I was trying to make.
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 1, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Bullpens, pitching and defense..
Yes. Cubs starting pitching experienced very uncharacteristic issues this year, between injuries and the very un-Dempster-like Dempster at the start of the year. Marmol’s headscratcher vs HOU aside, the bullpen has been good. Defense – not so much. This team has a lot of pieces that are respectable, actually, but if they don’t start playing together and learning how to win, Quade and Hendry will both be gone.
At $300 million, I don't want Albert Pujols anywhere near the Cubs.
by DisCUBbobulated on Jun 1, 2011 12:53 PM CDT reply actions
There Ain't No Cure For The(se) Summertime Blues
…except winning!
:)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Big enough?
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
I thought it was hiring Ryne Sandberg to maximize clutchiosity.
Baseball is pitching, hitting, baserunning and defense.
you see
how much effort the kids like castro barney and campana are giving. maybe we should blow it up and go young.
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