Tyler Colvin Home Run Overruled By Review, But Cubs Win Anyway In 11
by Al Yellon on Jun 10, 2011 7:15 AM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
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This is what we used to call "cheater's proof" on the playground when we were kids.
You know, when an argument between the two sides in a kids' game ended with one side feeling they'd really gotten jobbed, and possibly out of winning the game itself; then the side that got "cheated" out of something came back and won the game anyway.
That's essentially what happened Thursday night in Philadelphia. Tyler Colvin diplomatically said that he agreed with the umpires' ruling of "double" on his ball that appeared, even on watching many replays, to have been over the fence above the out-of-town scoreboard at Citizens' Bank Park. That ball should have been a home run, which would have dramatically ended Colvin's 0-for-34 slump and given the Cubs a 4-3 win in nine innings (presuming Carlos Marmol would have done in the ninth what he did in the 11th inning).
Have you ever seen the size of the replay screen that the umpires use in most ballparks? Your laptop screen is probably bigger. How can umpires be expected to get it right every time when they have to use a magnifier to see the position of the ball or whether a fan has touched it across a barrier where there wasn't even a yellow line? (I'll bet there will be a yellow line at that point in Philadelphia, real soon.)
Also, the umpires allowed Colvin to circle the bases and score. There is an implied ruling, therefore, on the field, that the play resulted in a home run. There needs to be conclusive evidence to overturn that -- and there wasn't. It really wasn't clear, on the replay angles available, that the fan reached out of the seating area -- further, no player could jump that high to catch the ball. The ruling on the field should have stood.
The game slogged on. This time, Mike Quade and the Cubs got it right -- loading the bases with an intentional walk in the bottom of the 10th and forcing the Phillies to let reliever David Herndon bat, because they had used up all their position players and their entire bullpen. Herndon had only two previous at-bats, both strikeouts. All Sean Marshall had to do was throw strikes, and the inning would be over. He missed with a slider, then threw three straight strikes, the last an unhittable curveball that Herndon swung through and missed.
The Cubs won 4-3 in the 11th when Phillies 3B Placido Polanco made a throwing error on a routine ground ball that should have ended the inning. You know, the kinds of routine errors that Cubs infielders have been making most of the year. You're used to seeing that, only by players in blue uniforms, not benefitting them. Colvin, who was on second base again after a single (putting his average back over the .100 line at .106) and passed ball, never stopped running and scored the winning run; Marmol did finish up for save #12.
This all came after a blinding wind and rainstorm blasted through Philly in the third inning; the grounds crew had trouble getting the tarp down in the gusts. When it was over, both starting pitchers, Kyle Kendrick (who had shut out the Cubs for three innings) and Randy Wells (who had been touched for a three-run jack by Jimmy Rollins) departed.
That's where the Cubs did something that's been very rare this season -- get excellent bullpen work. The Cubs pen threw 8.2 shutout innings, giving up just four singles, four walks, and striking out six. Attaboys, then, to Rodrigo Lopez, James Russell, John Grabow, and Marshall and Marmol -- nice job. An attaboy also to Geovany Soto, whose home run off Phillies closer Ryan Madson (his first since May 4) tied the game just before the Colvin mess.
So the Cubs take a game they probably should have lost. When's the last time we could say that? The rest of this series won't be nearly as "easy" to win, what with the Cubs facing Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee and Roy Oswalt, in that order.
Oh, and MLB? Replay review is great. But you've got to get a fifth umpire on the crew, stationed in the press box, with larger monitors (and expand review to include fair/foul, safe/out, and trapped/caught). It'd take less time and give you better reviews.
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Colvin's HR
Looking at the second and third replay, it looked like the ball hit the top of the metal fence, bounced off the fan, and then fell to the ground in the bleachers. Len and Bob were awfully diplomatic about it, but I think Colvin and the Cubs got hosed on the call.
The fan appeared to reach over that fence
The problem, as Bob pointed out, is that there are far too many places where fans can interfere. The first row of seats should be offset in a way that it is obvious in most cases whether or not it’s a homerun.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 10, 2011 7:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Or, put a very visible yellow line.
The ball appeared to be over the fence; the fan didn’t reach over and didn’t interfere with a fielder. The ruling on the field was “home run” — Colvin was allowed to circle the bases.
The replays weren’t conclusive. The HR should have been allowed to stand.
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The ground rules are apparently not clear, either
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 10, 2011 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Right.
I’ll bet there will be a yellow line painted there real soon.
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I'd rather see them re-define HR as above the scoreboard
Make it next to impossible for a fan to interfere
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 10, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
That fence is 13 feet high.
There’s no way a player could jump that high — so how could a fan “interfere”?
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Because the rules as stated and written here say ball hits the plexiglass - in play
The umpires made the right call in reversing it last night. But if anything above the board is a HR, the fan is a non-factor.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 10, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
And, my point is...
… no player could possibly jump high enough to catch a ball that high. So the rules need to be changed.
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Al, I agree with your basic line of argument
But ball clubs have the power to create local rules that put more of the ball in play. I know that you’ve heard of the Green Monster.
It is kind of a gimmick, but perfectly legal, and validated by many years of baseball tradition.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
True.
But there have to be better definitions of what’s in play and what isn’t.
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We can all agree that a yellow line would help
You should be able to see the boundaries without consulting the Citizen’s Bank Park User’s Guide, or waiting for the Citizen’s Bank Park for Dummies knock off.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
I'm not sure why you think you're arguing with me on this
You seem to be strictly defining interference as interfering with a fielder. This isn’t correct. If a fan reaches over the wall down the line and grabs a grounder that a fielder is nowhere near, it is going to be called a ground-rule double, even though a fielder couldn’t make any kind of play. That is interference.
Interference does not necessarily equal “out”.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 10, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
That doesn't make sense to me.
If a fielder can’t make a play on the ball, how can it be “interference”? What is the fan “interfering” with in that case?
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If a fan climbs into the basket at Wrigley Field, reaches over and touches a ball
that would have hit the underside of the basket, what is it?
No one can catch a ball at the top of the basket. So the fan pulls it into the seats. Do you call it an out? Homerun?
Call it what you want, but the fan INTERFERED. That is all I’m saying. You seem to be clinging to “fan interference” taking an out away, and there are lots of other things that can apply.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 10, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
But no one can do that at Wrigley Field.
And last night’s ball appeared to be in the seats (via its trajectory) when the fan touched it, even though part of his arm may have been over the fence.
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No one can do that at Wrigley?
They can if they’ve had enough beers, I’m sure.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Not unless they want to fall on the field.
That basket is wider than you think it is.
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Rambo would beg to differ
and he didn’t even have to climb into the basket.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
"How ya gonna live, Rambo?"
“Day game by Day game”
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Yes, but that's Rambo.
And no, we’re not talking about the movie character.
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and the trajectory is more downward at that point
so that’s not helping your case any.
Pause the video clip at about 1:07 where ball is hitting the fan’s forearm.
The only thing you really have to do is figure out where his forearm is relative to the top of the railing.
IMO, his forearm is past the railing and with the trajectory mostly downward at that point, there’s not enough air time left for ball to make it over. No arm in the way, IMO ball hits fence and ricochets downward.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Well, that's the way you see it.
I saw it differently. And that’s the point — the video isn’t conclusive. Thus, the ruling on the field (home run) should have stood.
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They can and they have. I've seen it.
And you’re ignoring the point.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 10, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
This
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 10, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Huh?
no player could possibly jump high enough to catch a ball that high. So the rules need to be changed.
You forgot about Sam Fuld! He has that cape, ya know?
You’re right tho…if it was ruled a double, it shoulda stayed a double…if it was ruled a homer, it shoulda stayed a homer. There wasn’t enough proof to overturn it one way or another.
Carlos Zambrano for Team Captain 2011 and beyond
That park gives up enough home runs as it is...
I highly doubt they’ll want to make it easier to hit homers there.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 10, 2011 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Here are the ground rules for CBP
From the mlb ground rules page
- Right Center Field to Center Field:
* Ball wedges in chain link fence in front of out-of-town scoreboard: Two Bases.
* Ball strikes fence or scoreboard and goes over the lower center field fence without striking the ground: Home Run.
* Ball strikes fence or scoreboard and goes over higher portion of outfield fence without striking the ground: Two Bases.
* Ball strikes top of outfield fence or scoreboard and bounds into stands: Home Run.
* Ball strikes top of outfield fence or scoreboard and rebounds onto the playing field: In Play.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
Yeah, someone posted that earlier, too.
I didn’t have that in front of me watching the game and Brenly was confused.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 10, 2011 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
I thought...
…he reached over the fence as well.
I don’t know if the video was compelling enough to overrule the on field call, but If I had to guess, I don’t think that ball leaves the yard if the fan wouldn’t have touched it.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
IMHO
I believe there was a 60% chance that the ball would not have made it out, if the fan had not interfered. However, I don’t think it was conclusive that the ball wouldn’t have gone out. That’s why I feel the ruling of HR should have stood. Had the play been originally ruled a “double”, then I think that ruling should have stood because it was not conclusive that it should have been a home run.
I also think there needs to be a time limit on how long it takes to look at a replay. If it takes longer than 2 minutes from the time the umpires first see the replay to make a decision, then the original call should stand. To me, if it takes longer than 2 minutes to decide, then the replay is inconclusive.
2011 - The 103rd time is the charm.
I agree...
…if someone asked me to look at that reply and give a yes or no answer on whether it would have been a homerun, I would have said no.
I know the rule says the evidence has to be conclusive and it probably wasn’t. When you think about it, an umpire running out there is not going to get as near a good a view to make a call, as you could by looking at a replay over and over again. Therefore, I think the “conclusive” rule is stupid. If there is a question, have them look at the replay and make the best call simply based on what you see.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Agree 100%
There should be a yellow line out there to clearly mark what is a HR and what is not. To avoid future issues, jus thave the line be at the top of the scoreboard, and not the fence. Then no one could reach out and interfere with a ball.
Brenly recommended razor wire or electric fencing
This is Philly…
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Jun 10, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
I agreed at first but then looking at the groundrules it says...
Right Field:
Ball strikes plexiglass barriers on the top of outfield wall at the bottom of seating area walkways: In Play.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/umpires/ground_rules.jsp
The fan clearly reached over (you could see his hand blocking the top of the fance) and touched the ball.. it would’ve hit the plexiglass. It’s the right call, even though I don’t want it to be.
2 in a row...
We will win it all!
They both (stats & bikinis) show a lot, but not everything. - Infielder Toby Harrah
Poster formerly known as Wrigster.
by bilbosbuttons on Jun 10, 2011 7:22 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Let's start with three in a row.
Hasn’t happened since last year.
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If we win the next three, I will go on a KoolAid binge.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
by eths on Jun 10, 2011 9:21 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
can you get the good stuff, the really BLUE stuff, in Germany?
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Cubs are like OPEC
Every time things get so bad (oil prices so high) that fans (USA) are talking about leaving, not caring, going to minor league games (alternative forms of energy, hybrids, mass transit), it’s funny how the Cubs (OPEC) manage to win a game (lower the price of oil) here and there.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
putting a
smart baseball man in charge of baseball operations?
by hansman1982 on Jun 10, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Playoffs/Home Field Advantage/World Series Appearance.
Weekend contributor at Windy City Gridiron
by Steven Schweickert on Jun 10, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Pena saved the game with that diving save
of Castro’s throw.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
by mrcubsfan on Jun 10, 2011 7:26 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
And Pena's double in the 8th
to score a run was huge, making the score 2-3.
And ARam's diving play with the bases loaded a few innings earlier effectively saved it too.
We'll all miss you Ron.
by alkappy on Jun 10, 2011 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Right on that.
As much as the guy strikes out and cannot hit a lefthander, he is a great glove not good great, and he works pitchers. I like Pena, if the two big boys go some where else, Pena coming back would be a OK option.
I agree with this
But if we end up keeping Peña (because of not getting Pujols or Prince), we would have to have major upgrades in right, third, rotation and bullpen to make up for it.
We'll all miss you Ron.
Well it was very dramatic
and it did end Colvin’s slump, but it would have been better if were an HR.
To me this is perhaps a little payback karma for the Phillies who got hosed in the 2007 game when DeRosa’s clearly foul ball was called a HR but replay did not exist.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
I was going to say the same thing
I remember that ball was clearly foul
Oh, Yeah
Fair/foul definitely needs to be added to replay review, whether or not it involves a potential home run ball. Don’t take forever to make a decision, though. I want replay to overturn egregious calls, not the very questionable ones. I mean overturning calls like the one Don Denkinger made in the 1985 World Series, not the borderline calls.
2011 - The 103rd time is the charm.
To me Colvin still gets credit for playing a big part in the win.
Everyone keeps talking about him getting hosed on the call, and that is probably right, but no one is talking about the hustle the kid showed last night. When he was on 2nd there was a routine groundball to Planco, Colvin ran to third, and anyone else would have slacked up and held up there. Colvin hustled around 3rd, no hesitation, and got home. Therefore as was talked about months ago, HUSTLE WINS BALLGAMES!!!
by alabamacubbie on Jun 10, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
cant put it into a statistic
it doesnt matter husker epsilon
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
I was at that game. My wife
(not at the time) was in Philly for some work. We went to the game together and I went alone to that one. My plan was to take the train to the airport. I was yelled and threatened to no end. At one point yelling in my defense “what the hell did I do??”
I was in the left field bleachers and remember the ball disappearing behind the foul ball. I was also told that “if this were an Eagles Bears game you’d get your ass kicked”. Without getting into a whole Philly fan debate (which is no myth) after being threatened and hearing Fukudome called a “G**k” by a very loud fan – I ended up disrobing from my Cub gear and taking a cab to the airport.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
by Hammer on Jun 10, 2011 1:09 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Philly fans are a real tough bunch.
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Another funny thing
Cubs won that game in the 10th on an error with Z pinch hitting and I meant 2008.
Needless to say I remember it well, it was my famous “Lou is a bad manager” game.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 10, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
You make it sound like you only had one of those.:))
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
I didn't see the play
But it’s funny because all here say it was an HR and on the radio this morning, they were very matter of fact about saying “Well, the umps got the call right, so the Cubs can’t really complain about that…”, etc.
Now I really wish I had seen the play…
Wait a minute... who am I here?
So there's no yellow line there, eh?
Well, like was said, there will probably be one soon. It’s usually a play like this that does it.
Wait a minute... who am I here?
I think that if the Cubs thought it was, they would have said so
Carefully worded, most likely, but still would have said so
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 10, 2011 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions
They probably DID say so.
But after the ruling, what can they do?
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There would have been things said in the media, I mean
There might not have been criticism, but there wouldn’t have been agreement, either.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 10, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Was not conclusive -
The ball clearly hit the fan’s mid forarm – Should of been a HR
"If The Phone Doesn't Ring, It's Me"
"Miami Redhawk Hockey"
Here’s the video, decide for yourself.
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i cant tell the depth behind the scoreboard
but it looked good to me!
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Thank you, Al.
Just checked it out. Man, so hard to tell.
But here’s what pisses me off – the Philly fan can now CELEBRATE because he basically PREVENTED a Cubs home run, eh? What kind of bullsh** is that???
Wait a minute... who am I here?
I guess this is why the score changed
I was only watching the score through the DirecTV ticker and I saw it was 4-3 Cubs…then I checked back and it was 3-3 in the 10th.
My thought exactly.
I checked the score on my phone… 4-3 Cubs in the 9th. Yeah!
10 minutes later… 3-3 bottom 9. Yeah… wait, what??
I thought the Cubs had simply invented, through suckitude, a way to be charged with -1 run.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
HR and then the player ran the wrong way around?
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
by eths on Jun 10, 2011 9:46 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Remember the 2000 World Series?
Robin Ventura hit a grand slam and got credited for a single because he didn’t get passed second base. I thought maybe someone homered and fell down rounding the bases.
That was in the NLCS, not the WS
Here’s a description of what happened.
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Ok, official thread drift...
What if player has homer, double, and single in a game, so all he needs is the triple for the cycle. Next time up, he hits another homer. But what if he stops on third and doesn’t come home, because dammit – he wants his cycle.
What’s the ruling?
If he absolutely refuses to come home, I imagine at some point the umps gotta do something. Call it a homer anyway and eject him? Run doesn’t score, change it to a triple (farthest bag he reached) and keep playing? Call him out – homer never happened?
And before you say this scenario would never happen – although I tend to agree, I also could easily see somebody like Milton Bradley doing this.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Interesting question.
I can’t see most players doing this. When they hit a home run, they want the home run. Quite the quandary.
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Doesn't matter what the Umpire does
It’s how the Scorer calls it.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Jun 10, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, my wife and I were thinking the same thing.
If the ball was ruled to have been interfered with, why wasn’t the fan tossed from the park for interfering with a ball in play?
"The cheaper the hood, the gaudier the talk" - Philip Marlowe
by ForTheLoveOfBiitner on Jun 10, 2011 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I love Matt Garza's reaction
Hoping now that Ty can go on a giant streak and get his confidence back
~Ronald Reagan has held the two most demeaning jobs in the country; President of the United States and radio broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs~ George F. Will
by unretrofied93 on Jun 10, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I love Tyler Colvin's reaction, too
He wasn’t awarded the homer but he did finally put a ball in play. AND he scored the winning run. He really needed to have a game like last night’s.
by shadyglennbeckert on Jun 10, 2011 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
but where is the fan's forearm relative to the fence? that's the question.
He’s clearly reaching over – hands are over the fence. You’d almost need a side angle view to do the old “did it break the plane?” thing like in football.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
However...
… it’s not clear, as mentioned by Len & Bob, what the ground rules about that are in Philly. The outfielder had zero chance of leaping and catching that ball.
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what does outfielder's chances have to do with this?
and I though Len & Bob came back later with an answer on the ground rules – the HR “line” is the fence, not the top of the scoreboard. Which is pretty stupid if you look at it given the fans proximity to said fence, but I thought that’s what they said.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
He may have reached over...
… but the ball hit him on the forearm, clearly BEHIND the fence.
At least that’s the way I saw it.
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Agreed.
Even with replay, the umps managed to screw it up.
The beauty is that they don’t need to know for certain if it’s a HR or not. Not knowing is a valid ruling, thereby leaving the field ruling intact. Instead, they made a ruling that implied they knew, which clearly seems unlikely based on what we have all been able to see.
"The cheaper the hood, the gaudier the talk" - Philip Marlowe
by ForTheLoveOfBiitner on Jun 10, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
I thought it was a double at first
because I thought the ball hit him in the hands, which were clearly past and below the railing. But after watching the slo-mo several times, I realized the ball hit him in the forearm, which appears to me more or less at the top of the railing. With the momentum of the ball, I think it either (barely) clears the railing or hits it and richochets into the stands. In any case: home run.
But yeah, if you’re gonna have replays, probably having good video tech is an obvious requirement (especially in baseball, where the ball isn’t very big).
I love how fired up
Garza was on the “Colvin Homer”, over the scoreboard should be a home run.
I say it was ruled a home run and there wasn’t enough evidence to overturn it. If it would have been ruled a double on the field I would say it should have sayed a double.
by Cubsfan Waveland on Jun 10, 2011 7:52 AM CDT reply actions
Yep I watched the video
before posting my statement. Glad we still got the W.
by Cubsfan Waveland on Jun 10, 2011 7:57 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah! love the fire from garza!
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
I love Garza's attitude period.
"It's easy to do what's ordinary, it's difficult to do what's deemed impossible -- I guess that explains why my life is so hard, because nothing is impossible for me"
Reminds me of DeRo.
The guy just wants to win.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 10, 2011 8:48 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
+1
Hopefully he and his attitude help set a standard in the pitching rotation.
Nice base running by Colvin & Barney
Thank god Colvin and Barney hit those infield grounders and Colvin was running through 3rd to score. Some of the vetrans on this team would of been out at first and stopped at 3rd.
Aram looked horrible when he was on first in extra’s
"If The Phone Doesn't Ring, It's Me"
"Miami Redhawk Hockey"
That was the first thing I thought of.
Colvin scoring from second on the ground ball. Hell Ramy, Sori would of been cemented at third.
I appreciated how Barney...
didn’t just ram himself full speed into the catcher risking injury to both players. I’d rather my team lose than play baseball that way.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 10, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Nope...
I meant Barney scoring on Castro’s hit in the 6th.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 10, 2011 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions
small point...
but i think barney was getting ready too barrel, he just noticed that the ball wasnt caught then moved away…
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Yeah that's what I thought.
Barney’s got instincts like that. Really heady player. I do think he’s someone who could start just on defense alone, but on a bad team like this. Otherwise I think he can be a top tier backup at at least two positions.
second and left field?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
The catcher wasn't in harm's way
No mash-up at the plate would have happened. (I saw the replay once. No time to watch games, if I really wanted to.)
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 10, 2011 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions
bullcrap
you play to win – if the catcher puts himself in harms way you bowl through him just as you would if the 2nd baseman did. Doesnt mean that you try to injure the guy.
I disagree.
Do you see a lot of players going head and shoulder first into the 2nd baseman or shortstop? If you are slamming your body into another person’s body when he has little protection, you are negligent of whether you injure your opposition. If you can’t win without resorting to those tactics, you didn’t deserve to win. Whether or not this has always been a part of baseball is debatable, but, either way, times change. It’s not worth it to have this play continue to have a place in baseball.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 10, 2011 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
guys are always taking out
2nd basemen and ss trying to break up a double play. Hell, its how the Twins 2b got a broken leg. I dont think that is right as most of the time the defender is doing something to actively avoid contact. In the case of a play at the plate if a catcher puts himself between you and the plate then you have to go through him, plain and simple. The catcher is a big boy, they know what they are doing and what is going to happen and that they might get injured.
So lets say that, during game 7 of the WS, the opposing team’s catcher is blocking the plate in the bottom of the 9th and Barney represents the tying run with 2 outs – should he then just stop and politely ask the catcher to move out of the way? Do you give up a WS Ring just so that you dont plow through the catcher? NO you play within the rules to win.
Hello...
they’re not going in shoulder first. They’re not running into the guy. They can’t do it without sliding. Make the runner going into the plate attempt to slide just like you have to do at 2nd base, if you want to keep making that comparison.
If you’re not fast enough to make it to the plate before the catcher has the ball, you don’t go. 3rd base coaches won’t send the players as often and less players will get unnecessarily hurt. And we’ll rarely notice the difference.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 10, 2011 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Because if they go into second base like that, they will overrun the bag
The point of barreling into the catcher is to dislodge the ball and be safe.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 10, 2011 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
And also to kill and maim.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 10, 2011 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I was told by a catcher once that runners get to hit them hard
but that they get to wear protective gear.
"The cheaper the hood, the gaudier the talk" - Philip Marlowe
by ForTheLoveOfBiitner on Jun 10, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I havn't yelled that loud in a good way for a Cubs game in a long time
when Polanco’s throw hit the dirt. I’m glad Colvin was hustling his butt off.
Good for Colvin.
While it should of been a HR hopefully this gets him goin a bit. sometimes it just takes that solid contact to remember you can still hit. We’ll see if he carries that over.
this always happens...
i get mad and turn the game off only to wake up to a Win! the " they are who we thought they were" game in phoenix for the bears was another one of them…I’ll take the credit for this win ladies and gentlemen.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
You need to do this more often, apparently.
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dont tempt me...i'm superstitious enough...
i will never watch another cubs game if it means we’ll win the Series.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
I often feel like that
But what’s the point of winning if you don’t get to see it?
martyrdom?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
IMO the fan (who looked like a really badass Philly guy...) reached over the fence, but
it hit him above his wrist. That spot looked like the bottom of the “HR line”, so there was absolutely no conclusive evidence. How in the hell can you OVERTURN this call?
Marshall has to be one of the best releivers in the game right now.
Agreed on Marshall.
Since the Cubs have to have an All-Star, he’ll probably be the one.
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Even mid season hitting form...
there aren’t many options for NL shortstops with Hanley Ramirez on the DL and playing bad. I won’t feel bad for Stephen Drew or Danny Espinosa if they don’t make it and Castro does.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 10, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
The National League needs the depth in the pen this year.
I can’t think of a whole lot of names on their side that may help them out. I know that they will have Halladay, Lincecum, and guys like that, but I’m talking about closers and setup men.
by alabamacubbie on Jun 10, 2011 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions
i dont get the bullpen need for the ASG...
you have the leagues best starters pitching two innings when there are only 9 innings i’d rather have lincecum halladay lee etc pitching than marshall, though i recognize how good marshall is.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
At the same time...
… if you’re in the 8th or 9th inning, perhaps more useful to have a reliever who is used to those types of situations.
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true, but then why do many(again eyeballing)
managers bring in their stud starters if the game is on the line in the 8th 9th of playoff games?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Stakes are a lot higher there than in a regular season game or ASG
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homefield advantage? thats a huge stake.
but i’m not really arguing against you…i just think the reliever should be LIGHTS FRIEKEN OUT to make it over an ace of the ball club.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
I would imagine you'd agree that an ERA under 1.00
is lights out.
"The cheaper the hood, the gaudier the talk" - Philip Marlowe
by ForTheLoveOfBiitner on Jun 10, 2011 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
And they're dumb.
It works often enough, but it goes against 162 games of known data.
"The cheaper the hood, the gaudier the talk" - Philip Marlowe
by ForTheLoveOfBiitner on Jun 10, 2011 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I beat this horse last night
But I was so annoyed that the fan was still able to sit around on his phone and texting when he should have been ejected for interfering.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
by Hammer on Jun 10, 2011 1:12 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
So happy for Colvin.
I know he’s been pressing, especially since Fukudome has did well this year and he hasn’t had consistent playing time until Byrd and Soriano got hurt.
"It's easy to do what's ordinary, it's difficult to do what's deemed impossible -- I guess that explains why my life is so hard, because nothing is impossible for me"
Awesome! Cubs win again!
I missed this game, well, the end of it anyway, for something far more awesome than this season so far, and any movie to come out this year:
Super 8
Seriously, if you loved stuff like E.T., Goonies, Stand By Me, Close Encounters, or movies of their ilk, you have to see Super 8. Maybe the most charming movie I’ve ever seen, and on a snap judgment, it easily cracks my top 5 favorite movies ever.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 10, 2011 8:08 AM CDT reply actions
Quick Question...
after the Colvin Homer video it shows nelson cruz and Josh hamilton hitting “tape measure” home runs…how do they determine how long a home run is? do they determine it from the exact place it hits the stands or do they use an algorithm to determine the flight of the ball were it would have mathematically landed?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
I believe....
… each ballpark has a chart of distances. Someone in the press box looks at the chart when it’s determined where the ball landed. They’re not exact measurements, more like estimates.
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so is it to the exact spot that it lands or is it to where it would have landed had the stands not got in the way?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
I wonder
if it would be possible to place a chip in the ball to track it’s distance using GPS.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 10, 2011 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't see why...
it wouldn’t be possible. At the same time, I don’t see why MLB would want to invest the dollars necessary to make it happen. That can’t be cheap.
Don't they use laser technology?
Just like they have those gadgets you can use on golf courses to tell how far away the hole is, I think they use something similar to measure homeruns.
here's a very interesting read...
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/feats/art_hr.shtml
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Also interesting is the 1996 date of this article,
two years before the Fraud of ’98 and beyond would obliterate most distance standards.
"Elder White! Look at the talent on those Cubs!" Harry Caray, KMOX Radio, 4/22/62
"And you have to wonder – What's the matter with Broglio?" Harry, KMOX, 5/24/64
There's also this way (Good luck)
1. Find distances a and b in degrees from the pole.
2. Find angle P by arithmetic comparison of longitudes. (If angle P is greater than 180 degrees subtract angle P from 360 degrees.)
Subtract result from 180 degrees to find angle y.
3. Solve for 1/2 ( a – b ) and 1/2 ( a + b ) as follows:
tan 1/2 ( a – b ) = – { [ sin 1/2 ( a – b ) ] / [ sin 1/2 ( a + b ) ] } tan 1/2 y
tan 1/2 ( a + b ) = – { [ cos 1/2 ( a – b ) ] / [ cos 1/2 ( a + b ) ] } tan 1/2 y
4. Find c as follows:
tan 1/2 c = { [ sin 1/2 ( a + b ) ] x [ tan 1/2 ( a – b ) ] } / sin 1/2 ( a – b )
5. Find angles A and B as follows:
A = 180 – [ ( 1/2 a + b ) + ( 1/2 a – b ) ]
B = 180 – [ ( 1/2 a + b ) – ( 1/2 a – b ) ]
I think my tax accountant used the same formula this year
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Jun 10, 2011 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm on summer break
My Calc 3 and Differential Equations classes aren’t until next year and I want to keep it that way!!
We'll all miss you Ron.
This is Calc 2
So you should be solid! Although I’m currently taking Calc 2 and I don’t want to solve that.
or is he bluffing?
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
my brain just blew up.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
I was told there would be no math.
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by Al Yellon on Jun 10, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
the overrule call was horrible for 2 reasons
but once they started showing replays you could sense and overturn would happen because you just knew that the ump would sloppily review it and focus more on the fact that the fan’s hands might have extended over the railing and completely ignore or overlook the fact that the ball appeared to hit farther up on the arm. The burden of proof is on conclusive evidence to overturn, and the it was completely inconclusive. Terrible all the way around.
This is a game the Cubs would normally lose after something like that – and certainly entering the 9th down so it was great to see that while it took a couple extra innings the outcome was positive.
When will MLB learn?
Especially after that obnoxious kid in NY reached over the fence. There should be no possiblity of this happening in any park! Citizen’s Bank is pretty freakin’ new, too. Just drives me nuts. A 3-foot gap between wall and fans would eliminate this from ever being a problem.
Sweet win anyways! No reason they can’t beat one of the big 3, especially Lee, who has struggled a little bit, relatively speaking of course.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jun 10, 2011 8:35 AM CDT reply actions
Oswalt ain't all that either...
he’s got a losing record, but, with a decent ERA.
Carlos Zambrano for Team Captain 2011 and beyond
Ricketts should be on the phone with Zambrano and Cashman this morning
Yankees are a mess right now, they are not going to accept getting destroyed by the Red Sox…..I would check right now to see if Cashman is interested and if he he is implore Zambrano to go as the rebuild begins now.
As noted in several other places
Carlos Zambrano is a block you build around, not dump. He is only 30 and can be a productive pitcher for several years to come.
Plus, Z won’t waive his NTC to go to an AL team. He loves to hit.
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the big question though,
was he serious about retiring after this contract?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Good question.
Somehow, I doubt it.
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yeah, but he's going to lose a lot
Al, get rid of the 30 million and then resign him in 2013 when you can start talking about contending. This team is gonna lose 95 this year and next.
Does he want to hit that bad? I’d rather pitch for the Yankees for a year in a half with a chance to win.
Things usually don't work out that way.
You don’t dump someone like that and then re-sign him.
There’s plenty of $ coming off the books after this year. The Cubs can afford to keep him.
You sound real sure about those 95 losses.
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how many you think they are going to lose, Al?
They aren’t contending, period. If I were the owner no way in hell am I paying a pitcher 30 million over the next two years for a team that has no chance to contend. Doesn’t make good buisness sense no matter how much money comes off the payroll, especially a guy who is as unreliable as Zambrano.
Fire Kenney, fire Hendry, slash ticket prices and tell people we are rebuilding the next two years and it will be a tough process. That’s the only sensible thing they could do right now.
You can't do the "rebuilding the next two years" thing
… because that would cause an even larger fan exodus than you’re already going to have.
Lower ticket prices? Absolutely, because they are far higher than the current team (and economic conditions) warrant.
But you don’t tell fans in this market that “we are rebuilding”. That’s not good business sense, either.
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it'd be better than continuing to drift aimlessly.
If they’re not willing to commit to Plan A (Sign top FAs), then I’d rather have them commit to Plan B (Rebuild), instead of Plan C – (Same old profanity).
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
The whole "Grinder" campaign has worked for the White Sox
In the past… when they weren’t shelling out big $ in FA like this offseason.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
How is it dumping him...
to trade him to the Yankees for value?
While I’m never going to predict a record that bad for any team a year from now, there’s no reason to believe this team will be better than a 67 win club this year. It won’t make me feel any better if they don’t go into full-on rebuilding mode and maybe push the team back to 70 wins. I’m not sure they won’t immediately get better if they do, vs what they’re sending out there on a daily basis.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 10, 2011 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Let's keep Z and count our blessings...
His comeback is one of the Cubs’ few bright spots since ‘08. He’s one of the few durable starters in baseball, and is one of those rare pitchers who doesn’t need to go for the strikeout in order to perform well at Wrigley Field. He is solidly in the tradition of Jenkins, Reuschel and Maddux and, if winning is your goal, trading Zambrano in a salary dump would be insane.
"Elder White! Look at the talent on those Cubs!" Harry Caray, KMOX Radio, 4/22/62
"And you have to wonder – What's the matter with Broglio?" Harry, KMOX, 5/24/64
by ernaga on Jun 10, 2011 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 10 recs
Whoa.
The guy who won 9 games in 2009 and who was suspended for 2010 and needed anger management training has been a bright spot? That’s a complete crock.
You can argue that Z should be kept — I’d explore a trade of anybody not named Garza or Castro, at this point — but to say he’s been a bright spot the past two years (even with the strong finish in 2010) is just ridiculous.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
by elgato on Jun 10, 2011 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, he has been a bright spot, absolutely.
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HOW?
A year ago, you were calling for the Cubs to cut ties!
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
"Zambrano Must Go After Epic Meltdown In 6-0 Loss To White Sox "
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2010/6/25/1537645/zambrano-must-go-after-epic
It’s time for him to stand up to Z. Thanks for the no-hitter, Z, and a few years of fine pitching which are way in the rear-view mirror. But it is time for you to play baseball elsewhere.
You can say he’s changed. You can say he’s valuable and worth keeping. But a BRIGHT SPOT since 2008? Did I just step into a parallel universe?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
And this comment.
Just pay him then and send him home to Venezuela. I’ve had enough of his act.
I’m sorry to pile on. I’m just absolutely stunned by your stance on this, Al.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Stunned?
Seriously? Look, I’ve called for him to be traded. He has, in fact, been a consistent performer since he returned from the restricted list. If you’re going to call me out for missing the “since ’08” part, I suggest you stop now.
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I'm not trying to be a jerk.
If you’re saying you missed the “since 2008” part, then I see what happened, and I’m not stunned. He’s certainly been a bright spot since he came back from the restricted list.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Just to solve this, I will post what I emailed to you.
I think you misinterpreted what ernaga meant by “since 2008”.
The point of “bright spot since 2008” meant, IMO, that we haven’t had much to cheer for since then. Z’s RECENT performance is one of the few bright spots.
It did not mean, nor was it intended to mean, that he has LITERALLY been a bright spot every single day since 2008.
Make more sense now?
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:) And here's my response.
I think ernaga’s point is open to interpretation. If that’s how you interpreted it, we’re cool, because I agree that Z’s performance since last August has been one of the few bright spots since 2008.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Hmm. Ernaga did say 'His comeback.'
Looks like I didn’t read it closely enough. I retract my amazement.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Wow - I'm glad we won last night
Hate to see this discussion after a loss.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Jun 10, 2011 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
You said
The guy who won 9 games in 2009 and who was suspended for 2010 and needed anger management training has been a bright spot? That’s a complete crock.
Yes, I called for him to be traded. He has, in fact, changed. So yes, I consider that a bright spot. I’m not looking back, I’m looking forward. It’s not a “crock” at all.
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You agreed with ernaga ...
that Z has been a bright spot since 2008. That’s what blew my mind.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
So you're going to call me out for missing 'since '08' in his post.
I read about 5,000 comments on this site every day. Thanks for calling me out on missing one.
Sheesh. You know, sometimes I feel like taking a day off. But I never do.
Thanks again. For nothing.
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Look above.
I said if you’re saying you missed that part, I see what happened.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
In Al's defense
A bright spot is, by definition, ‘bright’ because those around him are ‘dim.’ Is Zambrano Roy Halladay? No, of course not. But, given the epic cratering of so many other aspects of the team the past two years consider the following:
In his last 24 starts he has TWO LOSSES.
In his last 24 starts he has given up more than 3 ER only 5 times.
The guy has been the most consistent aspect of this team during this period. Hands down. Whatever you want to say about his contract he’s been a bright spot without question.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Jun 10, 2011 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
See above.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Doesn't see that Z has changed?
Well, somewhat anyway. But, the resuts since returning speak for themselves. Keep the guy.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 10, 2011 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
The problem isn't his pitching
its that he is a number 2 or 3 being paid like a no. 1. he is below league average in most catagories and on this team that makes you a bright spot.
You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. - Al Capone
He has been the Cubs best starter in 2011 ...
and he was very good in the final two months of 2010. But I am literally amazed that Al and two other posters would call Carlos Zambrano a bright spot since 2008.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
he's lost 2 times in 24 starts
If that ain’t a bright spot then I’d be curious to know your definition of a player who has performed well over a period of time is. Whatever you want to call his performance, a pleasant surprise, surprisingly consistent, who cares. He’s been better than any of us could have hoped for since the midway point of last year and he’s been better than any other pitcher in our rotation. As far as his salary, to me that is irrelevant to the conversation. It’s not like you would say “well, he’s been a bright spot performance wise but because of his salary he’s not…”
C’mon.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Jun 10, 2011 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
If you look at his performances...
they’re not all that consistent, and some fans have evolved past caring what a player’s win/loss record is. For a guy who makes what he makes, “better for a guy who had to be demoted to the bullpen twice a year ago” isn’t the standard I’m looking for. His salary isn’t irrelevant to the conversation because of the budgetary constraints the Cubs are acting under. He’s had three straight starts where he’s performed well (even though 2 of those games were against the Mets and Houston). If that’s what it takes for the Cubs to get some value out of a team who’s desperate enough to want Zambrano, they’d be fools to not take it.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 10, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
For what it's worth
there’s a lot of overpaid players on this team, and I’m past, and I think others are past, holding that against the player.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 10, 2011 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I would love for that to be the case...
but the team can’t afford to carry two inconsistent players making as much as they do and hope to contend with what they have left over. That’s not my call, that’s the team’s call.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 10, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
whether they can afford to or not is hardly the point
The salaries are paid and/or committed. No one is saying that if we had to do it over again we’d give him the contract, god knows it is a bad contract. I’m not sure what you mean by fans looking past win/loss records and for starting pitchers we all know w/l is hardly the best yardstick. Case in point Z’s last 2 starts, he pitched great and was in line for the win and Marmol blew both of them. So yes, I care about W/L but I ain’t going to hold blown saves against a SP.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Jun 10, 2011 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions
His salary is only relevant when trying to understand the marginal cost of replacing him
3-4 WAR pitchers aren’t exactly an easy to replace commodity, so dumping him just for the sake of freeing up his salary only saves you that marginal difference in salary – likely less than a couple of million dollars.
WAR doesn’t take hitting into account either, which with Z is a relatively large factor in his value. When you factor that in he’s only slightly overpriced if at all.
by Wreckard on Jun 10, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who cares how he's paid?
He might be a slight overpay for what you get (I’m not even sure I agree with that), but the marginal cost of replacing him even with a pitcher of similar talent would be higher than keeping him.
For a 3-4 win pitcher (which is what Z is at this point) you’re looking at comparable value from guys like Buehrle, Lackey, Lowe, etc. Those guys are going to be paid in the $15M / year range. So if you have to eat more than $3M of the money from Z you’re probably going to come out behind when replacing him.
by Wreckard on Jun 10, 2011 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
The timing in the marketplace is painting a HUGE value for Z right now.
With the Yankees in dire need of pitching, and no No. 1 starters really available, Z could net a huge return in this environment.
The only question is… what would the Cubs have planned for the rotation beyond this season? Z and Garza, in theory, will be stabilizing our rotation
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Not at his salary he won't
$24M is a pretty high price to pay by itself for Z.
$24M + top prospects is way too much.
I love Z... but, in the big picture of things....
If trading him means somehow getting a package of players who helps us get to the promised land soon. Then, I’m all for it.
The Indians have dealt Sabathia and Lee, which is disgusting, but they’ve got a whole new team now as a result of those deals, and are competing for a division again.
And, remember the old Bartolo Colon trade to the Montreal Expos? The Indians got Brandon Phillips, Grady Sizemore and Cliff Lee for Colon in one deal!!!!! Holy crap.
If the Cubs somehow pulled off a deal like that, we’d all be ecstatic.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Good thing Phillips did so well for them.
Oh. Wait.
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Yeah, but that's not really the point.
Sizemore and Lee were pretty good, and Phillips COULD have been.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
He IS pretty darn good.... just for another team.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
They gave up on him.... a mistake.
And traded him to the Reds for…. gulp…. Jeff Stevens.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Wow.
And people think the Cubs make bad deals.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Well, every team makes bad deals sometimes.
And, I’d argue, that bad TRADES haven’t done in the Cubs in recent years. More like bad FA signings.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
The only really bad trade we've made in recent memory
was the Pierre deal.
And, it wasn’t so much the future performance of the pitchers we dealt in Nolasco, Pinto, and Mitre (although Nolasco has been pretty decent), but it was what we did with Pierre afterward. Instead of dealing him away to a contender at the deadline (there’s always a market for the “perceived best lead-off man”) to replenish after the trade, we let him walk as a FA, and only got a supplemental draft pick (Josh Donaldson).
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
That was the only abysmal trade
The Lilly deal isn’t looking great just yet.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 10, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
The Marquis trade was pretty stupid.
It was just a salary dump, and Vizcaino was beyond useless. Oh, and there was the Pie for Heilman deal.
Granted, none of those was really even Pierre level bad.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Then Marquis went on to have a stellar year. Ugh,
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
The major difference there besides talent
…is that they were all affordable.
You either give up money or prospects, not both. Given Z is priced at or above his market value, you will not get prospects unless you eat a fair bit of money. Which given the marginal cost or replacing him would make no sense at all.
We should be extending Z, not trading him.
by Wreckard on Jun 10, 2011 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
The Yanks would have to make it a 3 for 1
And Montero would have to be in the deal. And at at least one of the other two would have to be a top 3 prospect in there system.
Tried to go to sleep, else I'd be too tired for work...
That comebacker to Marshall was so loud and hard, it woke me up. Had to watch the rest after that. I love my TV on sleep mode.
And yeah, there was no way that home run should have been overturned.
Good win.
Weekend contributor at Windy City Gridiron
by Steven Schweickert on Jun 10, 2011 8:37 AM CDT reply actions
After looking at the replay myself...
….it is so hard to tell if the fan reached over the fence or not. Also, like Bob said, the railing is well behind the HR fence. With that being said I’m not sure how the OVERRULED a home run. From the camera angle we were given, I can’t see conclusive evidence that would warrant them calling Colvin back out.
Here’s another thought. The majority of replays I’ve seen used in MLB are for plays like this (fan interference) and fair/foul. Why is it that the only camera angle we have is dead on in front of the fence. I’m not sure how they’d do it but in the age we live in I can’t see it as impossible but a side or over the top view of the home run would have been nice.
#10 You will be missed.
I have no idea how Lopez shut them down
That guy had nothing on his pitches. The diving stop by Ramirez sure helped.
To Answer Your Questions...
Have you ever seen the size of the replay screen that the umpires use in most ballparks?
Not in person, no.
How can umpires be expected to get it right every time when they have to use a magnifier to see the position of the ball or whether a fan has touched it across a barrier where there wasn’t even a yellow line?
Because umpires make their living recognizing minute detail in real time while a game is running and have super vision otherwise they wouldn’t be umpires. You optically-normal people have no understanding the horrors of living day-to-day with the ability to zoom one’s eyesight into the smallest detail. Unless you’re umping a weekend series in Tampa…then it comes in pretty handy at the ‘clubs’.
When’s the last time we could say that?
I’m pretty sure ‘we’ were saying all that on Thursday….looks back at Thursday’s game preview…recap…YEP.
Oh, and MLB?
Not. Listening.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
I particularly liked this.
Because umpires make their living recognizing minute detail in real time while a game is running and have super vision otherwise they wouldn’t be umpires. You optically-normal people have no understanding the horrors of living day-to-day with the ability to zoom one’s eyesight into the smallest detail. Unless you’re umping a weekend series in Tampa…then it comes in pretty handy at the ‘clubs’.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
This retracted home run just shows another glaring hole in the review process
No one can say 100 percent that it was over that fence for sure. If there had been a camera angle facing down the “home run line” then we would all have been able to tell if it cleared the fence. If you are going to have umpires make home run judgement calls to “get it right” then you absolutely have to give them the tools to make the right call. Need to have a camera angle down the fence line or home run line, need to have a painted line to designate a home run, and for goodness sake, get the umps a screen that gives them the optimal opportunity to view the play and get the call right.
Exactly.
And if they don’t have conclusive evidence, then the ruling on the field (home run) has to stand.
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From what I could tell
the ball may have possibly hit the top of the fence and continued over had there been no interference. I think the illusion was that the fan had his hands just over the fence, but if you look closely, the ball hit him above his hands. The momentum of the ball seemed to give me the impression that had no one been there, the worse that would have happened was that the ball would hit the top and continue over. Unfortunately the only way we really would have been able to tell that is from a camera angle down the fence line.
the problem is
that you would need about 20 cameras in most stadiums to look down the home run line and have conclusive evidence on 95% of all home run calls
by hansman1982 on Jun 10, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Great to see Colvin have a good game.
They can take a HR away, but they can’t take away bu sting out of a 0-34 with two hits and a walk.
Good to see Castro take a walk. He’s up to 9 on the year.
James Russell with a strong inning once again. I thought they’d try to get more out of him.
Sean Marshall is a machine. This guy might be our best pure pitcher right now. This guy is on point.
Lineup needs more LeMahieu.
Soto with a weird night…3 K’s and 2 hits. Take the good with the bad I guess…
Nothing bad or weird about Geovany Soto last night...
He had two extra base-hits including a game-tying homer. You don’t have to reach for something bad to say about a hitter just because they’re not your hero Blake DeWitt.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 10, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
i'll agree with Senor
usually ( eyeballing it mind you) if you strike out thrice, you’re not seeing the ball very well, and seeing the ball usually goes well with two hits…so if he would have struck out once and flew out or grounded out twice and then got two hits, okay makes sense…but three strike outs and two hits is weird iMHO.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
There's nothing wrong with his approach to hitting...
that a few more balls dropping in won’t cure. The BABIP gods just aren’t smiling on him right now. He’s not walking as much as he used to, but I’m not surprised about that batting consistently 8th. He can’t walk as much in the 8th spot with the pitcher behind him. He has to swing the bat and try to do something. His K numbers being significantly up since he came off the DL bother me a little bit, but overall they haven’t been up anymore than in years where you would praise him for his offensive output.
You can’t just look at the boxscore and say he struck out 3 times, he sucks, unless you actually watched him strikeout and can say he was swinging at bad pitches or letting hittable strikes go by. Context, as always, is key.
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by jameslcrockett on Jun 10, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
i never said soto sucks.
i said three strikeouts typically means you’re not seeing the ball all that well. looking at the box score, if i saw three strikeouts i would assume he’s not seeing the ball well. and couple with a homerun and another hit it looks weird.
if he had grounded out or flew out three times and then got two hits, okay he’s seeing the ball well all five times but three previously werent placed in his favor.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Again...
you can’t just make those assumptions looking at the boxscore. It’s only weird if you actually know the quality of his at-bats by watching it and analyzing it yourself. If he weren’t seeing the ball well, he wouldn’t have made the positive impacts he did. They weren’t just luckbox hits. You’d also be much better off to stop making the distinction between strikeouts and any other kind of out. The difference is not significant. Players can see the ball poorly and still make weak contact like you’re describing.
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by jameslcrockett on Jun 10, 2011 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
did you watch the game?
Soto hacked at like 12 pitches in those three outs…they were not pretty at bats.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
listen to Brenly's comments after the home run...
" in the course of two at bats it looks like geo has found his swing" implying something was lost…validating Senor’s statement.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
here's the link.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=15720731&topic_id=8878538&c_id=chc
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
And then in the next inning he struck out...
Did he lose it again then?
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 10, 2011 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
wow you really made something out of nothing
you turned this line:
Soto with a weird night…3 K’s and 2 hits. Take the good with the bad I guess…
into this:
You don’t have to reach for something bad to say about a hitter just because they’re not your hero Blake DeWitt.
Thats not reaching…K’ing 3 times in a night is bad, thats not putting the ball in play, thats not
The BABIP gods just aren’t smiling on him right now
thats a bad night at the plate for anyone – the fact he got a homer and a base hit as well means that maybe something did get fixed between AB #2 and 3.
There are worse things than just not putting the ball in play.
I’ll take strikeouts over weak pop ups to the first baseman or ground balls which are easily converted into double plays.
And commenting on his BABIP is a reflection of his whole season, obviously. Regardless of how many times he’s struck out, he’s about 70 points down on the season from where he was last year. If you give him credit for just 30 of those, which is about all I’m willing to do since .330 is a little high for a player who doesn’t run well even for a catcher, his overall numbers are more than acceptable.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 10, 2011 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
very weak point...
if you put a ball in play you at least have a chance, however small it is. if you strike out there is an even smaller chance ( dropped third strike)
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
In terms of the advantages of both
I’d rather see a player work the count, look for a good pitch to hit, and if they don’t see anything, try to walk. These types of players (Soto included) tend to strike out more.
If we’re dealing in extremes, then that’s a heck of a lot better then Marlon Byrd swinging at the first pitch all the time. The possibility he’ll reach on an error is so small I don’t think there’s really any advantage to that approach over the selective one.
That's right...
you’re weakly hoping and praying the defense makes an error or you get lucky and a ball drops in. I’ll take a guy who walks, strikes out and when he hits the ball, he hits it hard. That takes talent.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 10, 2011 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
There's times I'd take a strikeout as the out rather than say...
a groundball out.
Say…bases loaded 1 out. Or maybe 1-3 one out. 1-2 one or no outs and the pitcher is up. Etc.
I'm saying Soto put a stroke on that homerun.
but his three strikeouts looked awful, like he was totally befuddled at the plate.
all information compiled it was a weird night, that he looked that great on that homerun, and looked completely lost on his three strikeouts. it looked weird.
i get it if i guy just misses a ball. but he wasnt just missing, he was hacking, swinging at pitches that even if he did hit would have been squibs. he looked weird, it was a weird night for Soto. I simply agreed with SG, in stating it was a weird night.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Did you?
Considering that he looked at 2 strike threes and it only takes 9 strikes to strike out three times, I can see how you might be confused enough to think a maximum of 7 was anywhere close to 12. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest when a player strikes out vs any other kind of weak out. It usually bothers me more when a player pops out to the catcher or somewhere on the infield, but we don’t keep those statistics.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 10, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Lol...what did I say there that earned that?
Oh that’s right, it’s me that trolls everyone here with my love for my heroes DeWitt and Russell.
Geo had a good night at the plate, but personally I find the night kind of weird. Very Adam Dunn type night minus a walk.
Funny story (to me anyway)...
My wife was watching the game with me and commented when Soto was up in the 9th that the Cubs were going to lose again. I immediately told her that “Well actually, if anyone can tie it up right here, Soto is someone who you should be able to expect it from, I mean he is a guy in years past that would smash a homer in this kind of situation.” Midway through my rant about Soto being able to tie the game, he did just that and we were of course extatic!
by adam316 on Jun 10, 2011 9:16 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
You deserved some lovin' for that
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Jun 10, 2011 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
I was hoping for a good Soto AB as well
Especially after his double in his previous AB. But my wife had just gone upstairs, so no “attaboy” for me either.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Jun 10, 2011 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
You know, the kinds of routine errors that Cubs infielders have been making most of the year.
I laughed.
Also, I vote yes for 5th umpire on the crew—stop unemployment!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Also, I vote yes for 5th umpire on the crew—stop unemployment!
Yet another reason to do it. MLB can create 15 more jobs on the spot.
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You could do it like hockey
Doesn’t the NHL run all the replays through one booth in its headquarters? no reason baseball couldn’t do that. there aren’t that many calls and it would be more consistent. and they can’t use the excuse that an extra umpire at every game is expensive.
You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. - Al Capone
They could.
But they HAVE to do something to get these right. They blew it last night.
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that would improve unemployment from 10.34343560796%
to 10.34343560795?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
"Under my administration unemployment dropped..."
I can see some politician saying it already.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
After seeing the replay a few times it was clearly not a home run.
It had to clear the metal railing to be a home run, the guy reached over the metal railing and the ball hit him on the wrist/forearm then bounced into his chest and behind the fence. The ball would have hit the metal railing about halfway up if the guy did not interfere.
Good Game. Something for the Cubs to build on. The pitching has been better and if that continues the Cubs will put together a few good streaks as Byrd, Soriano, and Baker get healthy and Soto starts to find his swing.
...
Oh, and MLB? Replay review is great. But you’ve got to get a fifth umpire on the crew, stationed in the press box, with larger monitors (and expand review to include fair/foul, safe/out, and trapped/caught). It’d take less time and give you better reviews.
Preach it Al! Amen!
We'll all miss you Ron.
Going on record right now
Big Z will out pitch Halladay tonight. Big Z is focused right now and has a really good string of games going dating back to last August. Cubs finally win 3 in a row!!!
by Cubsfan Waveland on Jun 10, 2011 9:44 AM CDT reply actions
And the Phillies aren't hitting
With Utley still working his way back and Howard in a slump this is a winnable game.
You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. - Al Capone
Hope to see
a lot of two-seamers from Big Z tonight…..
by Cubsfan Waveland on Jun 10, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe the W gives the
boys a boost and they play better in Philly . I would assume they are painting the yellow line now or by afternoon . What if that call had been made in a playoff game ? MLB still has to work on getting this process better .
I say the Cubs should sweep Philly
And then the commentators can talk about how the Cubs are now the best Major League team while simultaneously being also the worst.
Well not yet but it is
better than the last 2 weeks . Nice to win the very close games. THe defense played better .
Glad to get two in a row!
That being said, I’ve never been a fan of replay and now that it took a right call and made it a wrong call I’m even less of a fan… I agree with Al’s point, if MLB is going to use replay they need to give the umps the proper tools to get it right. But, I digress. Nice win in extras!
Good win
Two players that need to hit Soto and Colvin finally come through.
Please give Barney a day off. Give DJ a start soon.
Quade has made it pretty clear
that Colvin will be getting regular playing time. The only way he gets time off is it’s a regularly scheduled day off. Don’t think this is an issue with Colvin.
Two points
1. Colvin’s shot was a home run – no doubt
2. How the heck did Ramirez get thrown out on that double. It went from LF to SS to 2B and not very smoothly at that. All of that and he was still out by a foot. Someone (Pena would seem like the guy) needs to challenge him. But then Ramirez made a great play at third later. Had we lost this game, he would be getting roasted for the running gaff.
This ain't the California Penal league.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Tough to know with Rami
but when he goes 2-5 with a fantastic defensive play to possibly save the game, I personally am going to cut him some slack.
What's wrong with these new ballpark designs?
Teams build new ballparks and have MLB approve the dimensions. By the first home game, there should be a clear home run marker thoughout the outfield. What good is it to approve the ballpark dimensions if you can’t clearly define the dimensions during the game? Didn’t they same a similar problem in Houston? And they had to add some bad paint job to clarify the home run boundaries. Look for a bad paint job in Philly soon.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
2 in a row. Wow. 3 in a row, and it;s time to buy a lottery ticket.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Yesterday's game was one that you live for
Things go right, guys execute, and you have just enough to beat the other guy.
Hey, I just read this whole thread, and I don’t remember seeing any Itchy, any Krummy, or even any TJ. Some people can’t enjoy a win, I guess.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
by vonde6 on Jun 10, 2011 10:56 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Amazing, isn't it
It’s easier to pile-on than to say ‘good job’
When you posted this, TJ had a comment 7 above yours and 50 minutes earlier
Just sayin’
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 10, 2011 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
You are right
I stand corrected.
In my defense, the TJ presence usually means two or three dozen posts after a bad game, so one post was easy for me to overlook.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Plus, there was a surprising lack of exclamation points
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 10, 2011 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
That's what I meants!!!
You’re catching all the implications today TJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We'll all miss you Ron.
what did you meants?
we stinks?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Making fun of someone's English skills
Always classy
....
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
ok vonde6, I'll do some hatin' for you if it'll make you feel better...
Did you see Quade argue the HR call? What’s with the hands behind his back and leaning foward stuff? He looked like an ostrich trying to imitate a Mick Jagger strut. Shit, Quade – move your arms a little. Get animated. Kick a little dirt. Don’t just stand there like a little school boy and politely beg to differ…
There – I know it’s not up to itchy or krummy quality but at least it’s something.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 10, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why can't krummy be scratchy?
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Jun 10, 2011 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Hi jerk!
Some people were coaching their daughters softball game in a city 2 hours away…..
I’ll try to check in and get your approval to miss a game next time!
It was nice to win a game or two…..Good for Colvin, though he got screwed out of a HR.
The division is ours!
now really
Did I do any name calling above?
Didn’t I say “or even any TJ”, as if to say that you do not deserve to be lumped with those other, purely negative Nellies?
I really strive to be civil.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
by vonde6 on Jun 10, 2011 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
BCB
Where if you didn’t say it, you said it.
Weekend contributor at Windy City Gridiron
by Steven Schweickert on Jun 10, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
we can read your thoughts!
flippity floppity floop
by jesus christos on Jun 10, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions
You clearly called him out
I’m not sure how you think that’s being civil.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jun 10, 2011 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure if you guys are enjoying the win or tweaking others for not being here more?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 10, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Clearly enjoying tweaking others more.
And I can’t really blame them. I know I feel like the club’s problems are permanently solved.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jun 10, 2011 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
if we take cliff and the roys
we have fixed it and we’re right back in it…
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Where did anyone say they didn't enjoy this win?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 10, 2011 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
You're not paying attention.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 10, 2011 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Way to give up!
Kool Aid drinkers like you are always ready for the pennant after a voctory or two…then you start getting on all the people who see reality..Its pretty funny to watch.
Penant race is what I meants!
It’s funnier to see your analysis of what you assume I think.
We'll all miss you Ron.
But who cares?
Sunny-siders have more to say after a win. Pessimists have more to say after a loss.
Are we going to start arguing about how the sky is blue, unless it’s cloudy?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
And sometimes....
not every poster is here for every thread regardless of whether it’s after a win or a loss.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 10, 2011 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
That, too.
I’m getting married in September. If I’m not here much around that time, and the Cubs go on a winning streak, am I going to be viewed as a pessimist who only chimes in when the Cubs lose?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
yes.
I will personally see to it that you are labeled as such. I’ll even make a fanpost about you.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 10, 2011 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
How about we refrain from attacking or calling out posters on behavior...
until they actually engaged in the behavior you wish to attack or call out? Just to mix things up around here a bit.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 10, 2011 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
As someone who learned that lesson the hard way ...
and who also was on the other end of it, I concur wholeheartedly.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
you shut up...you're not even a real fan.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 10, 2011 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
You can't be a real Cubs fan unles you visit and post on BCB 10 to 20 times a day
Last December when I was with New Orleans, our fat punk kicker, Garrett Hartley, missed a game-winner and we lost for the second week in a row – that was one of the times you want to grab a guy and tell him to [bug ] off," Fujita said. "But Hartley was young, and I didn’t want to mess him up for good, so I just bit my lip and said, ‘Hey, man, don’t worry about it — it was a team loss,’ which of course was a total lie."
by Fat Punk Kicker on Jun 10, 2011 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Why did it take you 5 minutes to respond to my comment?
You’re on FAN PROBATION until you have 10 more comments saying good things about Jim Hendry, Tom Ricketts, Mike Quade, Wrigley Field, Old Style, L Train Stops and TMOTTBG Singers.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 10, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
What if you just have it as a tab on your browser all day?
That’s the same thing as visiting and posting 10 to 20 times a day.
Isn’ tit? ISN’T IT?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Let's go to the replay and review this.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 10, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
nope sorry that one just won't cut it
Out of the dugout and get your ass back to 2nd. And for Christ sake put on your helmet
Last December when I was with New Orleans, our fat punk kicker, Garrett Hartley, missed a game-winner and we lost for the second week in a row – that was one of the times you want to grab a guy and tell him to [bug ] off," Fujita said. "But Hartley was young, and I didn’t want to mess him up for good, so I just bit my lip and said, ‘Hey, man, don’t worry about it — it was a team loss,’ which of course was a total lie."
by Fat Punk Kicker on Jun 10, 2011 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Okay
Then I’d be happy to reference the times in the past few days where Itchy has referred to players as “sacks of shit” and commenting that “wasted draft picks” won’t “eat their way to Wrigley”.
We'll all miss you Ron.
by alkappy on Jun 10, 2011 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
There's an easy solution, alkappy.
Ignore the posters you don’t like. I know this is hard when they’re prolific or when they respond to you. But Itchy seems to post on his own, and not in response to others.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
OK, you're going to reference those comments in what context regarding this particualr thread?
I get it that you’re torked that other posters here have a “bad attitude” regarding this team…but I’m not sure what the point is in stoking fires that aren’t even lit yet.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 10, 2011 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, I wasn't exactly doing the stoking, I just supported the original post
Not something I said on my own, but I get that one could say that is part of the stoking as well. It’s bothersome to me, vonde, and others I’m sure, and it’s not just because they’re not present today, it’s that they never are, but I really don’t care and would like to put an end to this “argument”, so if you’d like the last word you can have it.
We'll all miss you Ron.
Thank you...I do like having the last word....
LOADS.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 10, 2011 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
stoking fires that arent lit YET!
thats a whole time/space continuum that BCBers cant handle.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
But few posters do.
So, if they’re on the extreme fringe (no offense, guys) why do you even care?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Thank you.
I appreciate that. Should be a beautiful ceremony, shotguns and all. :)
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I'd send you a condolcence card, but I dont' know your address.
I too got sick of being right and having my own opinions over 15 years ago. Welcome to the club.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 10, 2011 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
.........
Last December when I was with New Orleans, our fat punk kicker, Garrett Hartley, missed a game-winner and we lost for the second week in a row – that was one of the times you want to grab a guy and tell him to [bug ] off," Fujita said. "But Hartley was young, and I didn’t want to mess him up for good, so I just bit my lip and said, ‘Hey, man, don’t worry about it — it was a team loss,’ which of course was a total lie."
by Fat Punk Kicker on Jun 10, 2011 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
oh, getting married in Tennessee?
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Nah, if you were a pessimist, you would've scheduled the wedding in October...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
you are creepy
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 10, 2011 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
what does this means?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 10, 2011 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, who cares?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I can't help but feel
that if it were any other team in baseball, that would have been called a homerun, but beacause it was the Cubs, no such luck. Oh well, still very nice to see the Cubs come back and win!
Winning
The Cubs deserved to win the game. The bullpen was stellar, given the number of innings they had to go, and nice to see Soto and Colvin contribute.
The Cubs have a winning record, 17-15, against non-NL Central opponents.
Realignment is the cure!!!
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
As mentioned in the recap,
You said Herndon had to hit because the Phils used up their whole bench and all relief pitchers, but the Phils did have a couple guys left on the bench who could of pinch hit. Charlie decided not to because one of them or a starter would have had to pitch if they didn’t get a run. If I’m Charlie I think I pinch hit for him there (he was career 0 for 2, 2 K’s) and hope for a better at bat.
THIS IS THE YEAR!
by CubsPanthersTarHeels on Jun 10, 2011 11:20 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
although im really glad how it worked out? What would y’all have done if you were in Manuels shoes?
THIS IS THE YEAR!
by CubsPanthersTarHeels on Jun 10, 2011 11:33 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
It wasn't the hitters on the bench
The Philles had used there whole bullpen – Herndon was the last. Manuel wanted Herndon in the next inning. He did not want to have to go to a SP to pitch, or Wilson Valdez.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Jun 10, 2011 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I know there wasn’t any pitchers left in the pen. I would have let Wilson hit, then pitch if needed. Obviously he pitched pretty well when called on before.
THIS IS THE YEAR!
by CubsPanthersTarHeels on Jun 10, 2011 1:31 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
lightening rarely strikes twice
Last December when I was with New Orleans, our fat punk kicker, Garrett Hartley, missed a game-winner and we lost for the second week in a row – that was one of the times you want to grab a guy and tell him to [bug ] off," Fujita said. "But Hartley was young, and I didn’t want to mess him up for good, so I just bit my lip and said, ‘Hey, man, don’t worry about it — it was a team loss,’ which of course was a total lie."
by Fat Punk Kicker on Jun 10, 2011 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Dempster batting in the 11th
After Colvin went to 2nd on the pasd ball, did anyone else think Z or Hill should of switched for Dempster with the count at 1 – 1
Means nothing now but would of been interesting coaching move
"If The Phone Doesn't Ring, It's Me"
"Miami Redhawk Hockey"
No, because then you're burning another player.
What if the game goes four or five more innings?
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
You mean think ahead about available players
Hmm what a novel idea.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 10, 2011 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Here’s an article I wrote on this topic for Baseball Nation
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I've been going back in forth with the SB Nation tech guys
It appears the reskin on Baseball Nation (shaver add right now) reeks havoc with IE 8. or at least my version here at work.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Jun 10, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
at least you're getting some response
I’ve submitted several IE issues in the last few months and haven’t heard anything.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
These guys have asked me for screenshots, error logs
One more email from them and I’m going on part time status. Probably earn some sweet BCB bucks!
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Jun 10, 2011 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I have heard other people having IE8 problems with those skins.
Hopefully, they’ll fix them. Sending them screenshots/error logs will be a big help.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
If Colvin did suck so much he would have hit the damn ball far enough that we wouldn't have to deal with this controversy.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 10, 2011 11:32 AM CDT reply actions
Colvin = Goldilocks
This Home Run is not far enough.
This infield single is not too far.
This run from second to home plate is just right.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Jun 10, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Just want to give some kudos to Tim Wilken here....
Since the first Wilken draft in 2006, the Cubs first round success rate has been through the roof in a totally unprecedented manner. When Wilken was in charge in Toronto, he sent 11 consecutive 1st round picks to the majors (including Alex Rios, Shannon Stewart, Roy Halladay and Vernon Wells). And, he’s currently on pace to do something similar here in Chicago.
Colvin and Cashner have already been to the bigs, and have made impacts. Flaherty and Jackson are due up soon. Vitters still has a ways to go, but isn’t in bust status. Simpson was set back by mono, and Donaldson was traded in the Rich Harden deal (good use of a supplemental pick), and he had a couple cups of coffee in Oakland.
Before this week’s draft, these were Wilken’s first six #1 picks for the Cubs.
2010 1st – Hayden Simpson
2009 1st – Brett Jackson
2008 1st – Andrew Cashner
2008 1st – (s) Ryan Flaherty
2007 1st – Josh Vitters
2007 1st – (s) Josh Donaldson
2006 1st – Tyler Colvin
Now, compare that with the previous six #1 picks before he arrived. It’s like night and day. None of these players… I repeat NONE of them, ever reached the majors.
2005 1st – Mark Pawelek
2003 1st – Ryan Harvey
2002 1st – Bobby Brownlie
2002 1st – (s) Luke Hagerty
2002 1st – (s) Chadd Blasko
2002 1st – (s) Matt Clanton
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Correction - His first seven #1 picks
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
100 percent agree! He’s doing a fantastic job. I hope he gets us a “Roy Halladay”
by bleedinblue76 on Jun 10, 2011 2:01 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Nobody's saying Wilken hasn't done a credible job...
It’s not all his fault this team has little to show from the developmental system. I’m not as impressed with the Colvin pick as you are, since a college position player taken 13th overall usually reaches the majors well before that time frame, as Brett Jackson is showing. I can’t really fault him for Josh Vitters, as he seemed to be the one pick on that list where Wilken didn’t go “off the board”, but he still has a long way to go before he’s not a bust.
From the job he did in Toronto and Tampa Bay, we can’t really say he’s done as good for the Cubs.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 10, 2011 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
The Cubbies won this many games in a row
Last December when I was with New Orleans, our fat punk kicker, Garrett Hartley, missed a game-winner and we lost for the second week in a row – that was one of the times you want to grab a guy and tell him to [bug ] off," Fujita said. "But Hartley was young, and I didn’t want to mess him up for good, so I just bit my lip and said, ‘Hey, man, don’t worry about it — it was a team loss,’ which of course was a total lie."
by Fat Punk Kicker on Jun 10, 2011 11:45 AM CDT reply actions
"That's the number draft pick we'll get next year."
Carlos Zambrano for Team Captain 2011 and beyond
only if you subtract 1
Last December when I was with New Orleans, our fat punk kicker, Garrett Hartley, missed a game-winner and we lost for the second week in a row – that was one of the times you want to grab a guy and tell him to [bug ] off," Fujita said. "But Hartley was young, and I didn’t want to mess him up for good, so I just bit my lip and said, ‘Hey, man, don’t worry about it — it was a team loss,’ which of course was a total lie."
by Fat Punk Kicker on Jun 10, 2011 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Stupid thunder storms and satellite.
Missed a good share of the game but I am really happy the Cubs won.
Feel bad for Tyler but at least he finally got a hit. Loved Garza’s reaction to it.
Shitcan replay in baseball forever!
It’s not necessary and just muddles things up. The ump could’ve had a 50 ft monitor and it was still inconclusive since there wasn’t a really decent angle and there’s no yellow line.
"Go Cubs!"
Oh, Itchy.
Whenever will you learn to quit couching your statements with nuance and equivocation?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
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