12 months ago
kcjones
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Hey, the Mavericks won...
congrats Mark Cuban. I’m happy for you and your team.
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"--The Brain
Hard to say.
I don’t think baseball’s owners ever wanted him in their club. I don’t think we ever had a real chance of getting him as an owner. He’s underrated as a team owner, and get’s played fun of a smidge too much.
Fun to speculate on what he’d have done differently, though. I am betting Hendry would not be here, and Quade would be back managing a AAA team. Just guessing.
by Nibbles on Jun 12, 2011 10:09 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Great Organization
I am fully in favor of giving the Ricketts more time.
But anyone who thinks we are better off without Cuban could not buy a clue in a clue field.
by WhistlerWilliams on Jun 12, 2011 10:10 PM CDT reply actions
HEY RICKETTS MARK CUBAN JUST WON A CHAMPIONSHIP
WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
ASKING FOR $200,000,000 FROM THE PUBLIC?
BITCHING ABOUT NOBODY GOING TO GAMES?
TOURING FENWAY AS IF THEY WORRIED ABOUT THE FIELD BEFORE FIXING THE PRODUCT ON THE FIELD?
DRESSING UP ON A REALITY SHOW?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 12, 2011 10:16 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
It took Cuban 11 years to win a title.
And even then, the best player is one that Don Nelson drafted – over much criticism – two years before Cuban got there. Nelson also traded three stiffs to get Steve Nash right after that 98 draft. Cuban had wonderful timing buying the team when he did.
Funny – in this town, Jerry Krause gets zero credit because the best player on the team was drafted before his arrival. Cuban has more or less the same story. Only louder and more obnoxious.
by Orval Overall on Jun 13, 2011 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
...and has much more to do with creating a winning culture...
than Jerry Krause did. Krause tore that team apart because he couldn’t handle everyone else constantly getting the credit. For all his flaws, all Cuban ever cared about was winning. He got a moribund franchise from a place where nobody wanted to play, much less care if they won, to the NBA Finals twice. Sure, he looks like a genius and a nobel prize winner compared to Ross Perot, Jr., but it doesn’t change how successful the Mavericks are, given the strength of their competition. Their win last night has a lot more to do with Jasons Terry and Kidd and actually getting some value out of their bench, but only fools wouldn’t want to associate with Mark Cuban… David Stern, Bud Selig referees, and you… have fun with that company.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 13, 2011 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
It wasn't our choice
So it really doesn’t matter whether Mark Cuban would have made a good Cub owner.
Congratulations to the Mavericks, however.
by Josh Timmers on Jun 12, 2011 10:19 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
We also don't decide the lineups, roster moves, draft picks, or pretty much a single thing.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
But we do have control over our caps-lock, RIGHT DAN??!?!???!???
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Me too
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
If you disagree with me in any way, you are wrong.
4
My second thoughts reflect my first.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Me Five
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 12, 2011 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions
vi
The best defense is a good offense.....
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
And if you weren't sticking to tired talking points of
“LOOK AT THIS CLOWN!”, “ALL HE DOES IS TALK AND IS A DISTRACTION!”, “WE DON’T NEED ANY MORE DISTRACTIONS”, etc., you’d see ll of that’s bullcrap, especially if you follow the guy and the team and you know when he does speak, he’s typically speaking out against David Stern’s bullcrap or terrible reffing. He also happened to take a team that was the laughing stock of the NBA, struggling to get 10 wins in a season, and made them into a team that went to the playoffs year after year, going to the Finals, getting back to the Finals, and winning it all. All the while he fought for what he loved the most, his team. Gee, what that must be like.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 13, 2011 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I always thought it was pretty ridiculous how Al
and several other Ricketts backers would talk about Cuban. I really wanted him as well and it was long before he won his championship.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jun 13, 2011 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions
5x2
Last December when I was with New Orleans, our fat punk kicker, Garrett Hartley, missed a game-winner and we lost for the second week in a row – that was one of the times you want to grab a guy and tell him to [bug ] off," Fujita said. "But Hartley was young, and I didn’t want to mess him up for good, so I just bit my lip and said, ‘Hey, man, don’t worry about it — it was a team loss,’ which of course was a total lie."
by Fat Punk Kicker on Jun 13, 2011 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Prime number
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 13, 2011 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks
First thanks for all your great posts about young players, the draft and the minors, but I do not understand your comment. Are you saying it is our choice whether Campy starts a game or which players get drafted?
by WhistlerWilliams on Jun 12, 2011 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions
No
But I guess I’m not seeing the point in crying over spilt milk. You’ll pretty much never see me saying “We should have drafted player X instead of the guy we took.”
I’m saying I’ve moved on.
by Josh Timmers on Jun 12, 2011 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions
OK
I see the distinction. Thanks again.
by WhistlerWilliams on Jun 12, 2011 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Oops
Lost my second paragraph – I also see the value of what if discussions and do not consider them just “spilt milk”.
by WhistlerWilliams on Jun 12, 2011 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Then what's the point of sports talk radio, sports columnists and blog such as this.
It’s all about second guessing, from talking about that days win or loss, talking about a draft pick or talking about what the hell is the current ownership doing.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 12, 2011 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions
There is a difference
Player moves, plays called by managers, sending runners, etc. are all decisions that can be second-guessed by the fans.
The other owners didn’t want Cuban; this isn’t anything that the Cubs did or didn’t do.
However . . . there are some that criticize others for having preferred Cuban or for posting that he’d have been a better owner. I think going after those comments is fair game.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2011 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Well it offers a "see I told you so" moment.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Yeah, I get that
I’m just pointing out that there is a difference in how it’s presented, and subsequently, how it’s received.
It’s fair to point out the fallacy in the anti-Cuban sentiments, but if people take the tactic of, “let’s get Cuban in”, their larger point is going to get missed, because people are going to respond to that part of it.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2011 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I've always been a Cuban supporter
I think this club could use a guy like him. What’s done is done though. Let’s see how the future plays out with Ricketts at the helm.
You're right, as Cubs fans waiting and being patient has paid off.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Yeahhhh
So are you suggesting we just dump Ricketts on the spot? Or are you just spouting off? I don’t see much of a concept behind your response. I’d like Cuban to replace Ricketts as much as anybody but it’s not happening either way.
I was just venting.
I know an owner isn’t like a player; all the blowhards in MLB would have never approved of Cuban owning a team.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Agreed
It’s almost as if MLB is run by a good ol’ boys network. Oh wait….it is. It’s a shame because a few outside the box owners/management could really do this sport some good. MLB’s public image could really you a shakeup IMO.
Congrats to the Mavs.
And a deep and sincere thanks for denying the Heat a championship.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Lebron's legacy just took a huge hit...Jordan? I think not.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 12, 2011 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I didnt watch a minute of the finals
but everything I have heard was that LeBron basically became invisible in the 4th quarter of each game…another straw on the camel’s back as to why Jordan > Lebaron
I watched a little of the finals
and am happy for the Mavs.
I guess someone should ask Scotty Pippen his take on the Lebron dissappearing act in the 4th quarters.
The Heat will probably win a couple of rings with Lebron, but sometimes players should just shut up and play. His post game comments were childish as was the mocking by him and Wade on Dirk. Money doesn’t buy intelligence or class.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Maybe the plays weren't designed for LeBron
Pippen could appreciate that . . . .
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2011 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Lebron is not Pippen
to Wade’s Jordan.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
I don't follow the NBA, but IIRC, Jordan was on one of his retirements when the game I referenced took place
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2011 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
That game showed me that Pippen did not belong on the list...
….of the 50 greatest players. To sit there and sulk because a play was designed for Kukoc.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 13, 2011 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
for certain
had he not played with Jordan he would not have been, but i think that only adds to Jordan’s supremacy that he made a good ball player Great.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Absolutely, while you never saw Jordan defer to another player...
…when it came time for him to seal the deal, he willed players around him to be better. You either played and played hard with Jordan or you faced his wrath.
Lebron at this point isn’t in the same league.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 13, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep.
Again, I don’t follow the NBA. But that is pretty damn egregious.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
my bad i didnt see a particular game referenced...
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
It was alluded to more than referenced
Or is an allusion a reference?
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I wonder how the Mav Fans felt after 2 years with no championship
Maybe we can give Ricketts 10 or eleven years
In Cuban's first 2 years
the Mavs made it to the Conference Semis and the 3rd year they made it to the Conference Finals. And as I pointed out earlier, the Mavs worst season under Cuban was 50-32 (.610).
Exactly.
Just imagine what he could have done for this organization. What a shame.
"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts
Cuban had nothing to do with that turnaround.
I know people want to believe ownership changed and poof they went from worst to first. It’s just not true. What turned the team around was Don Nelson taking the 7th pick of the draft and turning it into Dirk Nowitzki, then taking some stiffs off his bench and turning that into Steve Nash a few days later. Cuban wouldn’t even buy the team for another two years after that draft – but that’s why they made the quick turnaround, and why they have remained one of the best teams in the league for the past decade.
by Orval Overall on Jun 13, 2011 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
a turnaround in baseball
is much more difficult than basketball where 1 superstar can be the difference between 2015 wins and the playoffs
True
but you have to give Cuban his props. The Mavs have been in the playoffs for 11 consecutive years now.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
In a sport where 50% of the teams get in.
I get the Cuban love, and that’s fine, but comparing him apples to apples with what he could have done with the Cubs is an exercise in futility.
You’re talking about a league where THREE good players can get you to the finals. Where ONE draft pick can change your entire club. Where players come in AS SOON as they’re drafted and make an impact. Where teams under .500 can still make the postseason.
It’s just a different game, plain and simple.
i dont think anyone things the games are the same...
I’m not arguing here for Cuban…but Cuban makes smart moves(and some questionable statements), doesnt really sugar coat things, is a FAN of the team…not just the stadium experience…i think thats the biggest criticism of ricketts is that he seems to be more the “experience Wrigley” Fan and not the product on the field.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
I think that Ricketts is a fan of the team
I think that he just says stupid things sometimes.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2011 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
I think, And i dont know how to state this without sounding snarky...
that Ricketts is conflicted…he wants to be the Bleed Cubbie Blue Fan of the team on the field, but he’s also a business man and wants to sell his product, and if the best possible selling point is the Wrigley Experience then i think that’s what he’s going to lead with, as for the average BCBr here we’d rather never hear of the bathroom improvements and get a team that will contend year in and year out.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
That's not a bad description, but I think he's deeper than that
The renovations are easier to address, and it doesn’t mean that it’s mutually exclusive of the team. I just don’t agree with what we’ve seen so far on the baseball plan (if there is one).
Also, right or wrong, there is very much a perception that this fan base has earned – that it’s more about the experience than the game itself. Maybe he thought that it was wise to play into that.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
and honestly
you cant fill a 40,000 seat arena/ballfield/stadium with us…there is how many BCB members? couple thousand?, but only a a couple hundred that are in day in and day out….that’s not going to get the seats full…so i understand marketing an experience but throw us fanatics a bone and dont lump us in with that 27 beers and puking at Wrigley crowd. dont tell us injuries are all that’s wrong with the team.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Nonsense
In the 11 years that Cuban has owned the Mavericks, they have finished in the top 4 in the Western Conference 8 times. So, even if the NBA had the format the MLB has, 4 playoff teams in each league, Dallas would have made the playoffs 8 out of 11 years.
As others have pointed out, the best way to win a championship is by going to the playoffs regularly.
So you pick an argument that has several points backing it up
And go after one point? And completely ignore the fact that the Mavs could have finished 3rd in their division and still top 4 in your scenario (which did happen once) and still miss the playoffs?
My points ALL still stand, and they are factual. It is easier to win and be in consistent contention in basketball than it is in baseball, if only because ONE person can change the outcome of your team.
It's also harder to succeed if you consistently build a team that wins less than 1/2 of its games
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Which doesn't address any of my issues.
You guys can’t just make outlandish obvious statements to combat an argument. Address my points if you care to have a discussion on it.
No one is disputing that it's a different game and less of a team is needed.
Not one person. None. Zero.
The point that you are not addressing is that Cuban has taken a vastly different approach by putting solid basketball people in place and letting them do their thing, with an organizational commitment to winning.
Maybe Ricketts thinks he has conveyed that same commitment; we haven’t seen it. I don’t know that things would be any better if Cuban owned the team. But I don’t think that they’d be any worse, and I think that’s what a lot of the pro-Cuban crowd is irritated by. There are a handful of posters (one in particular), that have taken an anti-Cuban stance to absurd levels and refused to listen to counter-arguments.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2011 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe if someone gave a baseball reason as to why things might be better?
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
There are people disputing that, not saying it's you, it was just easy to reply to the comments.
You’re not going to get an argument from me regarding Cuban doing a lot of good for the Mavs, and I was behind Cuban taking ownership of the Cubs. But to claim they were good from day one of his ownership only because of what he put in place is simply incorrect. He came into a very good situation and made it a great one.
In those 11 years...
Cuban’s Mavericks have competed in an NBA dominated by Shaquille O’Neal, Kobe Bryant and Tim Duncan, and they’ve spent most of the time in his conference. There’s very little parity in the NBA. You’re either a have or a have not regardless of how many times you make the playoffs.
In 11 years, he’s taken a franchise that was lucky to win 20 games for way too much of their existence and turned them into a winning franchise. They had missed the playoffs for 10 straight years before Cuban bought the team and haven’t missed it since.
Anybody who tries to downplay their accomplishments without recognizing their difficulty just has no clue what they’re talking about.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 13, 2011 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
You seem to miss the entire point that Cuban bought a team that had just drafted Dirk
and traded for Kidd 2 years prior. He didn’t come in and instantly change the players, he simply let them play and they won. It’s not rocket science. It’s like calling Spoelstra an incredible coach because he took the Heat from a .500 team to a .707% team and to the finals after only 2 years!!! Not so impressive when you can see why that difference was actually achieved.
You seem to ignore the point that the Cubs don't have a solid foundation
And the current ownership has had about 4 years of pre-ownership and ownership to change that.
Cuban had a foundation laid by others and built on it. Ricketts had no foundation, and has yet to show evidence of building.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2011 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions
No, half of my point is that the Cubs have no foundation.
Didn’t have a foundation when Ricketts took over – and I agree he hasn’t done enough to fix that. However I don’t think it’s fair to claim he had 30 months of “pre-ownership” to make necessary changes. He had the ability to research and understand the team, but he had no power to make changes or effect set books.
I know you meant Nash, not Kidd. But there is a point there.
A couple years before Cuban arrived, Jason Kidd forced his way OUT o Dallas. As did, essentially, every other star Dallas drafted. Because it was a loser organization for losers. Jim Jackson, Jamal Mashburn, Jason Kidd – ALL forced their way out as soon as they were able.
Look at Minnesota. They lucked into a HOF forward with Garnett…. But even that could not totally change their franchise. The margin of error for non-traditional NBA powers is zero. For Minny, it was one conference final, a loss to Shaq… And that was essentially that. One awesome draft pick can temporarily boost your team, but the status quo is out there waiting for you to drag you back to your historical level.
Cuban has kept his team winning for a decade. Despite having absolutely no supporting cast for Dirk after Nash left. That has taken panache, man. It has been an amazing run.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Holy crap, yes, Nash.
And as I stated above, I have nothing but respect for Cuban and what he’s done with the Mavs. And he did make the organization respectable again. However, he DID walk into an organization with two key components and was able to win immediately because of them, not because of any changes he made to the front office.
He was able to keep those stars and build around them because of his moves, but he would have won games from the beginning regardless of his actions. As I stated before, I think he took a very good situation and made it a great one. I think Ricketts is taking a pile of crap and seeing how far he can dig in it. Hopefully he finds his way out soon.
With the resources the Cubs have....
There is NO EXCUSE for not competing for the Central division title year in and year out. It might be easeier/50% of teams make playofs in the NBA….but Cubs should at least be in the race into September year in-out….The only team even close in resources is St.L ….. the rest are “small market” teams….even St.L is not a big market … they just have a bit of history on their side. In the last 10 or so years the only Cub teams that fit that Qual. are 2001, 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008….I’d settle for 50% playoff appearences BUT … you need to be in the race in 2002, 2005, 2009, ……and not on track to be the worst team in the NL this year….you need to be hanging around .500…..
The best defense is a good offense.....
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
By the end of year three Ricketts will have set his office on fire....
…and he’ll be seen streaking across Wrigley with his underwear over his head.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 12, 2011 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I feel the same way I did before:
He’d be a great owner because he truly cares about one thing. Winning.
Twitter: @brandonrifkin
Blog: The Hot Glove || Heckler: The Heckler
I care nothing about Mark Cuban.
Who cares about rhetorical questions?
What if a 2003 Cubs Shortstop makes a double play in Game 6 of the NLCS?
What if Dusty pulls Mark Prior when he should have in that same game?
What if Lee Smith doesn’t give up a homer to Steve Garvey in 1984?
So what? This is a useless exercise about something that didn’t happen.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 12, 2011 11:22 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Well those bad memories that you bring up were in better times where it seemed...
…this organization was closer to a championship than at the present time. This team seems like it has taken 10 steps back with Ricketts in tow, it doesn’t hurt to think about what might have been.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 12, 2011 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions
It's taken 10 steps back since Ricketts took over? Cmon, seriously?
I realize they aren’t moving forward as fast as we’d like to see, but let’s calm down on the exaggerations.
Hahahahahahha...
You were fine arguing against Cuban when he didn’t have a ring:
“No rings. That’s a fact.” Just one of your many comments slamming Cuban for not having any championships.
Now that he has one, it’s time to change the argument, huh? Hilarious.
They still don't have rings, and it looks like they never will.
Argument still stands!!!
I was a fan of him owning the Cubs.
And I remember alot of guys here weren’t.
But it doesn’t matter now.
R.I.P. to my grandfather, Andrew Wiley
The reason I am a Cub fan forever
There's just no correlation
None. The team he owns won an NBA championship. Good for him. It took 11 years of his ownership to do it and an awful lot of embarrassing behavior on his part along the way. He finally took the hint, stayed out of the way, his GM hired a good coach who stressed team play, and they beat a Miami Heat team that had no concept of team play or a killer instinct in crunch time. Doesn’t change anything about whether he should own the Cubs.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Yeah cause...
We would hate for our owner to embarrass himself by having the fortitude to challenge others for the sake of his team. We would hate for our owner to care about the product on his own turf. We would hate for our owner to keep caring so much that he hires and fires until he gets it right.
by cubsluver22 on Jun 13, 2011 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions
And still, there's no direct correlation......
…. along with that 11 year thing.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
we're bad. no question...worst not even close...
you can question the leadership sure, Hendry’s not great. he’s done things really well and he’s made some bad calls. Rickett’s is in year two and he just spent a billion dollars on this team, lets let him catch his breath for a second, these contracts are not his contracts. at least our owner isnt going through a very public divorce, our Manager doesn have a foot fetish video on the internet.
what were the carolina Panthers last year? 2-14? that’s .125. the Minnesota Timberwolves were .205 winning percentage. yes were bad…but not the worst in america.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
We haven't won...
In over 105 years. We have one of the highest payrolls of any sports team in America and were almost in dead last. Were the worst sports team in the World bar none.
Trust me, most of Cleveland's sports teams have had similar heartbreak to any Cubs fan.
You are not 102 (by the way, we won 102 years ago, so your statement is incorrect), you have not suffered for 102 years. There is no one alive today who has suffered through this entire WS drought.
I, personally, have suffered for around 30 years. I have suffered no more than a Browns fan, or a Cavs fan, or an Indians fan. In fact, at LEAST I’ve had great Bears teams, a Bulls dynasty, and now a Blackhawks team to fall back on.
I realize many here are older than I am, but the point stands – In our lifetimes, there is no worse city to love sports in than Cleveland.
Over 102, less than 103
Also less than 105.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2011 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Part of that 11 year thing is post season appearances every year after only a few in the prior 19 years.
IMHO a lot of the reason the Heat crumbled at crunch time is because of the Mavs ability to keep fighting and taking control of the game at the end.
Gee whiz, it took him 11 years! The Cubs are going on 103+. Yes, baseball and basketball are two different systems but the concepts are similar. Basketball will change dramatically if and when a hard salary cap comes into play. I am giving Ricketts a chance, but it might take him 11 years as well. If he does bring a championship to the North side, we will all rejoice, but with Cuban, I think you could almost bank on it.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Ultimately I want to see a World Series win for the Cubs...
but mostly, i want to see a chance to win the World Series year in and year out…
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
That's the key, unless you are the Florida Marlins and win it all every time you're there lol
In a way, your initial comments seemed to say that it was “easy” for Cuban to do what he did. Tell that to the Bulls after MJ left and a bunch of other teams.
The key, as you have said, and we all agree, is to get there consistently and the odds are the championship will happen. The Cubs are on a roller coaster where they load up for a couple of years, then the bottom falls out, then reload. Once the Red Sox started their run 16 years ago, they have been a force pretty much a better part of 2 decades, appearing in the post season 12 times in this stretch compared to the Cubs 4 and will stay at 4 for a couple of more years, most likely.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
EXACTLY.....
And even when you don’t make it …the Cubs should be putting a competitive team on the field….not teams out of it before the solstice….
The best defense is a good offense.....
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
But often the Cuban haters would ask us Cuban backers, "How many championships has Cuban won?"
Well, one more than the Cubs have since the decade that man first flew.
It’s probably moot since the last thing Bud and his puppet master friends want is another outspoken owner like Ted Turner. But I think the best thing the Cubs could have hoped for is for an owner who invests his ego in the success of his team and wears that ego on his sleeve. He also seems to have the more immature aspects of his behavior under control. Something about the self-made guy having more of a chip on his shoulder and competitive edge over the rich kid whose dad gave him the dough. Not always true but…
Would have been fun.
Holy shit...
you just implied that there is no correlation between owners and championships. Yikes.
You give credit to the GM without realizing that…..Cuban hired the GM!!! And then you devalue the championship by knocking a Heat team that beat the defending conference champs (BOS) and the regular season champs (CHI). Never mind the fact that they SWEPT the defending champions.
Holy shit
You misstated all manner of facts. Don Nelson was already there! Cuban hired Nelson! Dirk was already there! And Cuban didn’t play in one game! How you can give Cuban credit for the sweeps is amazing! I can use exclamation points too!
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Not particularly.
Donnie Nelson was an assistant coach, not the GM that he is today. So that would mean that someone hired him to that position, understand? That person would be Mark Cuban. Being the owner of the team means having accountability for the product. So when a team wins, yes, the owner gets credit. Are you following all of this? You make a really good point in saying that Cuban didn’t play on his own team. Saved me some research. It’s not like he was Steinbrenner, who batted cleanup during the Yankees run of World Series. Or wait. Owners don’t normally play for their own teams, huh? And yet they receive credit because it is their money and their decisions that lead to success, right? Nah. You’re right, owners have absolutely nothing to do with their franchise’s success. Ever.
All the smart ass, pithy replies from you......
… don’t change the facts. There’s no connection, none, to how Cuban’s done in the NBA to how he hypothetically would do if he owned the Cubs. Michael Jordan’s will to win didn’t translate well into another sport. Hell, none of Jordan’s will to win has translated into any type of success with either the Wizards or the Bobcats. You’re guessing, wishing, hoping, and that’s all you’ve got. Enjoy your fantasy.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Thankfully, you've dropped...
your initial argument that there is no correlation between owners and success. Now the argument is that his success wouldn’t translate. I’d disagree with but acknowledge that argument, although your comparison is silly. You’re saying that Cuban, a NBA owner, couldn’t be successful as a MLB owner because Michael Jordan didn’t win a championship as a 40 year old. Hmm.
Nope, not dropping it
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
He's an excellent owner of an NBA team.
Good for him.
by SenorGato on Jun 13, 2011 12:08 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I think he's great
and I would have loved to see him own the Cubs. Will be pissed if he gets the chance to own another MLB team.
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
And now we know why
The current (then) owners wanted nothing to do with Cuban.
Oh, and Mark, thanks for KOing LBJ.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
Irrelevant.
Since it didn’t happen.
Owning, and making a winner out of an NBA team, is a very different thing than making a winner out of a MLB team.
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I assume they are mad at Bud and his minions
who aprove Ponzi types like the McCourts but would never in a million years would let Cuban or anyone like him , buy an MLB teams
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 13, 2011 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions
this
baseball is stuck in the first years of the 20th century. barely. it explains why they have allowed for extremely f-ed up decisions like home field in the world series for the all-star game winner, al rules in the all star game even in an nl park with the nl as the home team, or the ridiculous territorial mismanagement of broadcast rights.
i’ll take owners like mark cuban every day because they aggravate the good old boys club that has become major league baseball.
Yup.
Also the people who thought we were idiots for wanting Cuban in the first place.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jun 13, 2011 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I wanted Cuban
before he was booted then I didnt really care – I just wanted someone with a lot of money who could build a winner. I stopped caring about Cuban being a potential owner the day he was kicked from the running. Now I do my best to get behind who does own the team and his decisions, do I always like them, no but at the end of the day they have a million times more data and information than we do. I have worked with an owner of a multi-million dollar company before, and at times his decisions may have seemed REALLY stupid unless you sat in the meetings and heard the info that the decision was based off of. Right now it feels like complaining about Cuban is like complaining that you were born and raised in a small town in Iowa as opposed to Chicago, LA or New York.
Really you are mad at Al and others because they did not want Cuban?
Like their opinion made a difference? I would have been OK with Cuban though I did not really like him.. Reminded me too much of Jeff Loria heckling umpires and firing good managers, I kind of like the fan boy part. Fans get to offer their opinion on say crappy managers, roster construction, draft pickets, marketing, trades etc, but it does seem a bit silly to regret a guy that was never possible. It more or less like the complaining if only we got Adrien Gonzalez when we clearly did not have the package the Padres wanted.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 13, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
My problem with Jeff Loria:

is that I don’t know how this guy got to own a baseball team:

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2011 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
i just read an article about Toni Kukoc and his Three Championship rings...
this picture of Loria Reminds me of a quote from Kukoc….
They’re just too big and I just don’t see a point in wearing a ring," he said. He then joked, “I always thought the guys who didn’t play much and didn’t do much, they like to wear them so people [will notice].”
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
Well how he did in fact get to own the Marlins
is even more disgusting than the McCourts buying the Dodgers. It may seem tiny, but I think the most reprehensible thing Bud ever did was letting Loria “trade” the Expos for the Marlins, raid the staff and then REFUSE TO PAY for the Expos to expand their roster in 2003 LIKE EVERY OTHER MLB team, when they were actually in contention but owned by MLB. It would have cost $50,000 and this was the team MLB had already forced to play 22 “home games” in Puerto Rico.
Unconscionable.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 13, 2011 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
So...this is the new line?
Before it was “if Cuban is so good why hasn’t he won a championship?” Now it’s “THE TWO SPORTS ARE DIFFERENT!”
Yes, of course it’s different. The point is, the man has the ability to make a winner in one sport, that is why some of us preferred him over a guy with absolutely no background in ownership of any kind.
Why don’t you just admit he might not have been nearly as horrible a choice as you claimed back in the day?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jun 13, 2011 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
goal posts >>>>>>
The Apologist Brigade does not apologize.
by WhistlerWilliams on Jun 13, 2011 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't know if Al ever came out and used the "he hasn't won a championship" argument, but I know others did
so from my perspective, this post and any other commentary coming from the Cubanites is to put the “he hasn’t won a championship” argument to rest. And I think the way he carried himself through the playoffs, put the former owner front and center to accept the trophy, and directed the ESPN mouthpieces to go interview the head coach ought to put to rest all the “Cuban is a clown and always puts himself in front of the cameras” arguments as well.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 13, 2011 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
As usual, you're the voice of reason
However, you do know that this won’t end those arguments, right? Especially from . . .
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2011 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh, I know they'll continue - especially from....
In fact, I’m counting on it. I loves me some popcorn. ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Extra butter on the popcorn?
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2011 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions
We have a winner.
Well said, ballhawk.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2011 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
No, not really...
When an owner of Sports franchise buys a team and immediately becomes obsessed with the product he’s selling and does everything humanly possible to make it appealing, the results are often visible and worthwhile.
Rickets is nothing more than a penny pinching capitalist. He can prance around with his stupid stories about how he partied at Wrigley blah blah blah. Alot of people including myself don’t give a rat’s ass about his debt.
I want progress and he has done nothing since he’s been here but put lipstick on the pig that is Wrigley field and continue to let his baseball personnel continue to hand out bloated and back loaded contracts to has beens and has nots.
We fundamentally suck from the very top to the very bottom. The excuses being made for Ricketts are old and I don’t wanna hear em anymore. I just want the truth and I have an inkling what it is, seeing how their money came from an investment company.
That truth is he’s gonna pinch pennies and try to capitalize on his investment. I’m fine with that as long as he admits it and starts doing it correctly…see the Royals for a great plan!
You may want to research how the sale HAD to be made because of Zell
Before you go off on pointless tangents about Ricketts debt structure.
Also, no one here has any idea of how obsessed or removed from the Cubs Ricketts is. All we can judge him on are his actions, which I agree are less than what I had hoped, and his involvement, which he is extremely involved and attends almost (if not all?) Cubs home games. He also makes himself extremely approachable and available and for that I commend him.
I’m willing to give the guy more than 2 years of work after buying a crappy product to turn things around. Cuban bought a product that was ripe with Dirk and Kidd and simply let them lead the team to wins. Ricketts bought a team ripe with Soriano, Ramirez, etc and has to let them lose and have them fall off the books before he can make his mark.
But as I said, do some research on the sale of the Cubs – it will help you a lot.
The salefinanaces of the Cubs has nothing to do with what I wanna see..
Were getting almost worse than b4 he came on. My son’s 8yr old Little League Team is better at basic fundamentals than these clowns. The little things can go a long way. I would be happy with some baby steps as long as their forward. Standards need to be set and a REAL PLAN needs to be put in place one way or another.
Alright.. don't argue about Cubs debt structure when you clearly don't understand WHY it is structured as it is and have no interest in finding out.
Nice debate, don’t let facts get in the way of your mob.
I could care less....
About debt structure nor do I really care about your opinion. Wanna a cookie or something? I care about winning baseball. His lack of money isn’t from the his lack of charging every fan out the ass for everything Cubs. He’s a billionaire sooo wawawawawa.
He’s let this mess go on for 2 yrs now and still has done nothing but fix toilets and look for even more ways to squeeze more pennies out of all of us while running around like a Homecoming Queen Candidate looking for votes.
Pretty freaking pitiful we have fans who care so much about a poor little ol billionaire who took on a risky loan, charges everyone out the ass for everything and doesn’t live up to his end of the bargain.
I’ve been to a Maverick game and prices aren’t too fan friendly but you know what, the Mavericks have an owner that care about the fans desires. We have an owner who does not!
His end of the bargain is to make money
We buy the product or we don’t. We aren’t entitled to anything.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 14, 2011 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions
For better or worse, a baseball team is an atypical product.
we can pretend that there’s nothing at stake other than the decision to buy the “product”, but in reality, there’s practically a covenant with the community of fans. And owners ignore that at their peril.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I don't disagree
But cubsluver really comes off as entitled in his post above. He doesn’t care what the financial realities are, he wants what he wants and he wants it now. The world doesn’t work that way. Not even baseball.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 14, 2011 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Darn right I do
And so should everyone else. We have all lived up to our end of the bargain. There’s umpteen sports teams who love to be in Ricketts’ shoes as far as having the fan base, market, and security he has.
When he came on he gave us the ol’ I wanna win blah blah blah speech. Well it’s time to start acting on whatever it is he has planned. As I see it he don’t have a freaking clue other than a whole bunch of ideas to pinch some pennies out of an already strapped fan base.
I’m not asking the man to go out and be the damn Yankees every offseason. I’m asking for a honest to goodness answer as to the direction he’s planning on with this team and him to start acting on it, in someway.
If were going young and were gonna build through the farm(which is fine with me) than let’s do that all the way. But we can’t keep calling prospects up and down while letting overpaid vets teach them bad habits all the while playing terribly. We can’t continue to let this feel good story of a manager continue to mismanage the team on a near daily basis.
We as fans deserve a whole lot better than this!
Not on Cuban nearly as much as Don Levin
Yeah Cuban’s team won the NBA title and yeah he could have been a good owner for the Cubs but my vote still is with Don Levin.
Just win the next game...!
I'm with ya...
…but thats all water under the bridge now.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Wow - only the most predictable post of the day
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
I wnted him her in the first place. Not second guessing.....
You could see this circus coming a mile away.
The owners didnt want him because he cant be controlled like Ricketts can.
Although he needs "blasting" due to his...
…“I just don’t understand why the fans won’t come out to Wrigley” statement, I understand Ricketts’ hands are pretty tied due to the payroll that was attached to this team when he purchased it.
He should have a new GM in place before 5 days after the World Series of 2011 ends, because, that’s when he’ll be truly put to the test on what kind of owner he’ll be.
It’ll be REAL simple…if after this team loses 95-100 games and finishes 25-30 games out of 1st place, if Hendry is STILL the GM when free agency signings start, then Tom Ricketts is an idiot, without a doubt. I think he probably sees that right now and hopefully is putting a plan in motion to bring in a SMART baseball man to run this thing.
As far as Mark Cuban…I like the guy…he’s passionate about his Mavs and did all he could do to win a championship. The difference between Cuban and Tom Ricketts is…Cuban is spending HIS own money where Ricketts will be spending daddy’s. I also think, IIRC, Cuban is his own GM.
With the 1st pick in the 2012 Baseball Amateur Draft, the Chicago Cubs select...
There should be a new GM NOW!
The mid season moves are going to be taking place and I want someone who will be here in the future making the moves.
What midseason moves?
There’s nobody on this team that other teams want. These guys stink. Maybe a guy like Baker or Blake DeWitt can be moved, but, you get the proverbial “player to be named later” for moves like those. Z, A-Ram, ‘Dome and their NTCs ain’t goin’ nowhere…although I still think Z will waive his IF the right team calls.
With the 1st pick in the 2012 Baseball Amateur Draft, the Chicago Cubs select...
I would like someone who is willing to think outside the box and get rid of some people. We dont need much back, just get rid of them.
We do not need someone who is trying to save their job and not looking to the future.
Very few tradable...
…parts that have value and I would not anticipate any major moves at the deadline.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Proof is always in the pudding
Owners——own. Meaning owners set the tone, they establish the priorities by which “hired” subordinates are measured against. Example is Steinbrenner, his priority was winning—-period. Ricketts priority appears to be making the Cub experience akin to an entertainment value analogous to Six Flags. My example was the lame “Undercover Boss” episode.
In the end it didn’t matter—-MLB like a country club was not going to admit Mark Cuban into the club anyway—-he was blackballed. Selig (always having a bias) towards his small team Brewers and Milwaukee was not going to have a committed and competitive owner in Chicago to overwhelm the ChiSox, Milwaukee and St. Louis like the Yankees do to Toronto, Baltimore and TB—-period.
Finally I knew Mark at IU and caught up with him in the mid-90’s before he made a extraordinary deal with Yahoo. Mark is leagues ahead of the Ricketts 2nd Generation and besides his emotional participation as a fan he unquestionably sets the tone and establishes the priorities for his teams—-then gets out of the way.
At this point Mark would have already established who and what would be in control—-Hendry would have been gone, Quade somewhere else doing his thing and this team would be going in a better and more competitive direction.
But it was never in the cards….Personally I am hoping for a financial crisis from this ownership so it has to get out.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Jun 13, 2011 10:14 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
quite possibly the lamest thing i've ever heard muttered on this site...
Personally I am hoping for a financial crisis from this ownership so it has to get out.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
really, why?
Is that being this ownership’s apologist or merely a blanket corp class one?
The issue is production…nothing else and this ownership has not shown any inclination towards knowing what production really is, merely the easy idea of continuing the idea of making it a entertainment on the edges and not where it counts. Capitalism and marketplace economics is quite simple, if they can’t keep their house in order charging THE PREMIUM price for their product than that is how changes are made in capitalism.
As far as the Dodgers are concerned that was a crisis made by internal squabbles not the doing of the club being a good product on the field. Whomever acquires the Dodgers will have a competitive product to work with.
The real question you have to ask, do the Ricketts possess the capabilities to bring a WS championship to this franchise or are they merely going to be money exchangers?
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
whats lame
is your personal wish for the financial demise of the Chicago Cubs…because THAT is going to put a competitive team on the field. If you dont like Ricketts as owner okay, seems a bit premature to completely give up on him, he’s had exactly one year and 60 something games to “prove” himself. He has been completely hamstrung by the contracts that the previous ownership signed up. I’m not the biggest Ricketts backer, however, i dont want the man to fail, because his purported interests and mine are one and the same. This next off season might be a better litmus test for the organization, because some $50 million dollars are coming off the books. I know people throw Ricketts money around like it literally doesnt matter, but i dont blame the man for NOT eating Jim hendry’s contract immediately or not walking in and eating all $140 million dollars on the payroll. let’s give the guy a minute to stop and assess things and when you’re talking about a billion dollar purchase that is constantly changing and evolving one year and 60 games is not enough time to fully assess the situation. you’re hoping Rickett’s financial fails is inviting Bud Selig to take over operations of the Chicago Cubs, and then literally get “his guy” to purchase the Cubs.
"There had to be a place where the game could be fun again….that place is called Wrigley Field"---Andre Dawson
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth. Joe Garagiola
"Personally I am hoping for a financial crisis from this ownership so it has to get out."
See Dodgers, Los Angeles.
We'll see
I think everyone knows that Selig is a boob, but people forget about Reinsdorf. There’s no way he wanted to deal with Cuban in the same city because Cuban would have made the Cubs into a winner. Keeping the Cubs losers is apparently good business for MLB.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
If you disagree with me in any way, you are wrong.
by Ace Venom on Jun 13, 2011 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
agree with this completely...
Also argree with Ivy above. There is no way Hendry is the GM right now with Cuban. Crane would be gone as well.
Ricketts does not care.
That's not really what I meant
I don’t think Ricketts wants to lose. What Cuban did with the Mavericks was turn them from a joke to a perennial contender. This culminated in an NBA Title. Up until the sale, the championship was not realized. The point is that Cuban was already a proven owner by that point who was driven to win and could put his money where his mouth was. What we have is an unproven owner who inherited a giant mess that won’t be sorted any time soon. Cuban might have gotten the ball rolling a little faster, but we would have still needed to be patient. We still don’t know what we’re getting with Ricketts.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
If you disagree with me in any way, you are wrong.
by Ace Venom on Jun 13, 2011 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree completely.
Rec’d.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
What Cuban did the the Mavs was BUY A TEAM WITH A GREAT FRAMEWORK
He came into a team that had already drafted Dirk and traded for Kidd.
It’s absolutely hilarious how much praise Cuban gets for moves that were made before he bought the team. It’s almost as funny as the amount of shit that Ricketts gets for buying a team that had a terrible framework and for moves that happened before he bought the team.
Terrible framework, same architects remain.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
is it possible
that he told Jim and Crane to give him a comprehensive plan that would make the team competitors year in and year out before he made the decision?
A lot of people on here make a big deal about Joe pulling the strings behind the scene, if this were true and he thought Hendry and Co had no decent plan that he would keep them in place?
I guess it's possible.
I wonder if “Worst Team in Baseball in 2011” was part of the plan.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Even if...
…they gave him that plan, Ricketts should have looked at the complete track record and asked himself one question; “are these the guys I want to rely on for a plan?”.
He screwed up by not bringing in his own guy to give him a read on things right out of the box. Now, he has to play catch up.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Not my point... and that's a different argument altogether.
At the end of the day, one bought a product that was hitting its prime, one bought a product that was reaching it’s end in production.
Is it so shocking that one is praised and one is attacked? No, but how about we look at the situation before comparing them to attack the guy who got the crappy product and has to deal with it first?
Because for two years he hasn't dealt with it.
He’s raised ticket prices, asked the state to fix his stadium by promising to build an entertainment complex in return (where he would keep all the profits while local business would suffer, of course), pissed off every other team in the Cactus League by acting above them in his search for funding a spring training complex, complained about people claiming they couldn’t afford tickets to his wildly overpriced product, watched said product regress, enacted an incredibly fan unfriendly rain out policy, and kept the same folks in charge who built what may be the worst team in all of baseball (and for only 134 million!). Now there’s rumors of him hiring someone actually qualified to oversee baseball operations, which should’ve been his VERY FIRST ACT AS OWNER.
Look, this years team was gonna be bad regardless of who owned it. But Ricketts has killed any good will he had before purchasing the team with his actions, and his inaction in regards to the on field product the past two years has set the team back. Cuban walked into a good situation and made the best of it. Ricketts walked into a bad situation and made it worse.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
by shoemile on Jun 13, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
dingdingding
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2011 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
And I don't disagree with that.
My only point is that the situations these two owners walked into are completely opposite. I kind of think if Ricketts did what he has in the last 2 years but we were playing competitive baseball, no one would have cared very much – or at least no where near as much as they do now.
I agree Ricketts statements and actions leave a lot to be desired right now, but it’s still early, and I’m not going to give up all hope on him after 2 years of him running things.
I'm not giving up all hope on him.
But I have been very disappointed with what I’ve seen thus far.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
He can't change...
…what he hasn’t done so far, but he sure can get the joke and do something to set the baseball side on the right path this offseason.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
exactly...
…anyone who bothered to sift through the fluff, knew the baseball organization was a house of cards.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Watch out shoemile
We are agreeing on far too much these days.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 13, 2011 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions
WE HAVE A WINNER....
The problems with this org. have been apparent since the 1990’s….Did anyone here really think the 07/08 Cubs were a “team set up for years of contention”?
The best defense is a good offense.....
Dusty Baker is the only manager in the last 100+ years to lead the Cubs to a post season series win....
"Take the hands off the clock, we're gong to be here a while"
No, and it wasn't meant to be.
Trib Co. opened up pockets and backloaded contracts to increase team value as they sold the franchise.
It’s shocking that people are shocked that we suck now that the window has closed.
You've got it all mixed up
The Mavs did not draft Dirk N., they traded for him. And Nowitzki was in Dallas for two losing seasons before Cuban bought the team.
Jason Kidd was drafted by the Mavs, but was long gone before Cuban took over. The player who was there was Steve Nash, who the Mavericks had gotten in a trade, along with Michael Finley. Nash had been a under utilized and lightly regarded player with the Suns and the Mavs got him for practically nothing.
A big part of the story of the success of the Mavs in Cuban’s early years was the developing chemistry between Nash and Nowitzski, and Finley’s development as an outstanding wing player. The architect of this team was coach and GM Don Nelson, who Cuban wisely retained after buying the franchise. When Nelson stepped down as head coach he named Avery Johnson as his successor and his son Donnie as GM.
Donnie Nelson is GM of the Mavericks to this day, so one of the hallmarks of the Mark Cuban tenure as owner of the Mavericks is stability and consistency in the GM position.
Traded for NASH, not Kidd
he bought an organization that, a couple years prior, Kidd, Mashburn, and Jackson had forced trades OUT of, like rats fleeing a sinking ship.
The DAL organizational turnaround is almost unique. Utah in the Stockton/Malone era, or SAS in the Adelman/Duncan/Admiral era, but not many other examples of a decade of awesome after a lifetime worth of lousy.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I agree...
…Reinsdorf wanted Cuban like the plague. Reinsdorf yields a lot of power and respect with other owners, and they were going to fall in line with what Reinsdorf wanted.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
This is comical for so many reasons.
"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd
by South Side Expat on Jun 13, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Isn't it?
This isn’t to say that I don’t think Ricketts has been all bad as owner. I would have liked to have seen a quicker turnaround at GM, but what could he realistically do at this point? Even if Cuban purchased the team, there still would have been the inheritance of the giant mess that was the legacy of Sam Zell. I firmly believe that Cuban would have brought his own baseball people to the table and cleaned house, but the turnaround still would have taken some time. Reinsdorf has to deal with Cuban in the NBA already, so having him as an MLB owner in the same city would be a threat to him.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
If you disagree with me in any way, you are wrong.
"isn't to say that I think"
Correction
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
If you disagree with me in any way, you are wrong.
Name one way having Cuban as the Cubs owner would threaten anything that Reinsdorf does with the Sox.
"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd
by South Side Expat on Jun 13, 2011 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Same city
Reinsdorf could improve the Chicago White Sox brand at the expense of the Chicago Cubs brand as long as the Cubs remain losers in a bad way. Now if the Cubs ever transformed into a perennial contender, how does that look for the White Sox brand? It’s business.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
If you disagree with me in any way, you are wrong.
Yeah, cause so many Cubs fans are going to become Sox fans after this horrid season you are having, right?
"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd
by South Side Expat on Jun 13, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
this is not about stealing base fans but peripheral customers
Corporate entertainment dollars, sponsors and the brand of the city. In NY the Yankees own the brand though the Mets have a strong fan base they are always…always….always responding to the Yankees brand.
Chicago has two strong fan bases as baseball people go…but on the margins, where the 3M customer base is, where the value is was the Cubs, now as time goes on where will that brand position go?
Reinsdorf is about the Sox and Bulls….he could give a hoot about the Cubs which is why he never should have had a vote….and visa versa.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
If it is all about the entertainment dollars, then the Ricketts are doing
just what they should be doing with the entertainment gimmicks that everyone here is grumping about.
"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd
by South Side Expat on Jun 13, 2011 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Ding ding ding
We have a winner. It’s about the quality of the brand. The Chicago Cubs brand isn’t going to die, but it’s not outside of the realm of possibility that the White Sox brand could become more valuable than the Cubs brand. When you have two teams of the same sport in the same city, it’s proper business sense to make your brand more valuable than the brand of your competitor. You don’t want threats to that goal.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
If you disagree with me in any way, you are wrong.
I have been assured by many Cubs fans that the White Sox will always be the 2nd place team in this city.
Regardless, if the goal is to maintain the brand as a draw for entertainment dollars and not just for baseball fan dollars, then what the Ricketts are doing or trying to do with the Wrigley “experience” is exactly what they should be doing, and it’s unlikely Cuban would be able to do anything different/more.
"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd
by South Side Expat on Jun 13, 2011 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
People aren't going to games
What’s the point of a Wrigley experience if the product on the field is not worth the price of admission? If this sort of thing continues long term, there will be trouble. I’ve actually refused to get an mlb.tv subscription because I see no point in paying to watch my team do awful. I’m not alone here.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
If you disagree with me in any way, you are wrong.
Isn't the "Wrigley Experience" more about the stadium...
than the actual team’s play? I haven’t been to Wrigley in a few years, for the simple fact that I hate crowds, but, am planning to go later this year, because, there won’t be anybody there. My girlfriend has never been to Wrigley. She loves O’Brien Field here in Peoria, but, I’m not too sure she’d like Wrigley with 40,000+ fans, as much as she would with ONLY the 15,000 that’ll be there towards the end of the season when we’ll go.
With the 1st pick in the 2012 Baseball Amateur Draft, the Chicago Cubs select...
so you are saying that
6 playoff appearances in 30 years built the brand and now 2-3-4 years of bad baseball is going to destroy it? I hope you know that the brand was built to where it is from 1960 to today, sellouts arent something that have happened every other year than the last 2 they were the exception of the 2000’s when people had money (or borrowed money) coming out their arse and the team had two different hot streaks…
Um...
Where in my argument do you discern I mean 2-3-4 years?
“Reinsdorf could improve the Chicago White Sox brand at the expense of the Chicago Cubs brand as long as the Cubs remain losers in a bad way.”
That seems to imply a really bad skid for longer than four years. If you don’t think improving the White Sox brand at the expense of the Cubs brand isn’t something Reinsdorf wants, then I have a bridge to sell you. This is one of those things that takes time and, since Cuban would have done what he could have to make the best of a bad situation, why let him into the same city as you? It’s business.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
If you disagree with me in any way, you are wrong.
A financial crisis?
Good Lord, I really hope it never comes to that. Are you aware of what the Los Angeles Dodgers are going through these days at all? We’d be like that if the Cubs had a financial crisis.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2011 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree...
…and I doubt the club is close to any financial crisis, nor will they encounter one even if attendance continues to drop.
With all the money coming off of the books, it is likely the payroll won’t see the 140 mil range for several years to come.
You can only hope, that what Ricketts has seen develop in front of his own eyes, is enough to get him to wake up.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Absolutely right...
…about “setting the tone”.
Most good owners do that by having quality people onboard, setting clear expectations and letting them do their job (see Rocky Wirtz as one example).
Even thought Steinbrenner was a jerk, the guy set clear expectations, provided the resources to win and settled for nothing less than winning.
Steinbrenner is the extreme example, but there is something to be said for setting lofty expectations and holding people accountable. Even the Hawks held two people accountable that were very unpopular moves (but the right moves) when they fired fan favorite Denis Savard and launched Dale Tallon. Tallon was held accountable because he made too many fundemental mistakes that put the club in a tough spot with the cap and Savard for simply not having the experience needed to guide a young team to the next level.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I predict that Hendry will be gone after this season...
Because privately I believe that the Ricketts family is not happy at all with the product on-the-field this year. There HAS to be a change this offseason. If Ricketts brings back Hendry for 2012, the Cubs lose a lot more fans including this one. He can’t afford to keep Hendry even if he owes him one more year. He has to fire Hendry and I think that Hendry, although he’ll never admit it, knows that his days are numbered.
As for Quade, I think that it’s 50/50 that he’ll return in 2012. Personally, I think that whoever comes in as the new GM will want to pick his guy. If the Cubs bring in someone like Ned Colletti, he might get Sandberg. I know that Sandberg is considered to be a popular choice, but I believe that he would be the right choice as well. Most guys aren’t going to want to take this job. Sandberg will.
I agree...
…with most of what you say, but please, no Ned Coletti.
Also, Ricketts has no one to blame but himself, for letting this fester, when he had plenty of information that he should have brought in fresh talent from day one.
Quade is way overmatched at this level, but he is not even close to the main issue with this club.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I would have cheered for any
team to beat the Heat. Congrats to the Mavs. I didn’t want Cuban before and I don’t want him now.




















