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Would you trade Alfonso Soriano for Barry Zito? The San Jose Mercury-News' Giants beat writer Andrew Baggarly throws that very proposal against the wall.

11 months ago Space-dero_tiny DeRoMyHero 67 comments 0 recs  | 

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Narp?

There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.

by truelinkfence on Jun 20, 2011 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

yes Yes YES!!!!!!!!!!

Clear up the impending log jam in the outfield and pick up an inning eater (ish) for the same coin. I think Hendry would gain a lot of popularity back if he could pull this off!

Trade me right f@#$ing now!

by Mister Zero on Jun 20, 2011 5:49 PM CDT reply actions  

I don't think

I’d do this deal, and I’d do just about any deal to get rid of Soriano. But Soriano is still somewhat productive, and Zito is like a number 3 or 4 starter at this point. And IIRC he’s a fly-ball pitcher. I just don’t think it’s worth it.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Jun 20, 2011 6:04 PM CDT reply actions  

God no!

Zito is no longer a good pticher. Why bring in another underperforming, overpriced player?

Don’t micro-mange the budget and try to get the most for the spent money. That may be the right thing to do for running a corporation, but it’s not the right hing to do for running a competitive baseball franchise.

Soriano is not a cancer. He’ s a good teammate and he doesn’t need to be shipped out like Bradley. If the team decides that they no longer feel he can benefit this team, then take the write-off. Don’t bring in another issue, even if he’s only slightly less of an issue. You only have 25 men that can be on a roster and only 5 starting pitchers. Get the guys out there that can win the most games, not the ones that are the least worst financial decisions. That’s a formula for mediocrity.

by jerry morales rules on Jun 20, 2011 6:04 PM CDT reply actions  

I think I would.

It might not make either team noticeably better, true, but at least it would change direction for both of them.

Another bad contract swap, really, but here’s the good part from the Cubs’ viewpoint: Position players play more often, and that gives Soriano more chances to hurt the Cubs with his brutal defense, complete lack of anything resembling speed, and propensity for either home runs or outs, with little if anything in between.

by MN exile on Jun 20, 2011 6:07 PM CDT reply actions  

I'd do it.

R.I.P. to my grandfather, Andrew Wiley
The reason I am a Cub fan forever

by Unique on Jun 20, 2011 6:19 PM CDT reply actions  

didn't we discuss this at length last year?

I know it was discussed on the Giants site…this is possibly the third year now in a row.

It won’t happen, but I’d do it. It saves 7.5M and means the roster spot would be open a year sooner. Zito is younger and will probably be a little below average for the duration of the contract…you could probably expect an ERA in the 4.5-4.2 range. Not a bad option for an inning eater at #5.

"Playoffs?!" -Jim Mora

by Castro Por Presidente on Jun 20, 2011 6:20 PM CDT reply actions  

Is bringing in a bad player really worth saving $7.5M?

Now the Cubs would just have another problem somewhere else. Why not just take the hit and get the best 5 starting pitchers in the rotation that you can?

by jerry morales rules on Jun 20, 2011 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Check his stats

he’s just a tick below average in the american league. The Cubs could use him; it’s not like there are many guys in the minors banging on the door. The Cubs do, however, have interesting guys to plug into left field.

Honestly the only reason this doesn’t get done is from the Giants perspective. I don’t see them having a place for Soriano unless they’re feeling starved for any power they can get now that Posey is done for the year.

"Playoffs?!" -Jim Mora

by Castro Por Presidente on Jun 20, 2011 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

sorry

i meant national league…he’d probably be a couple ticks below average in the AL

JC: freddy sanchez is at .289 and schierholtz is at .256? unless my source is whack which is always possible…

"Playoffs?!" -Jim Mora

by Castro Por Presidente on Jun 20, 2011 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

on active roster i guess

read that somewhere

Blake "The Franchise" DeWitt will lead us to the promised land

by jesus christos on Jun 20, 2011 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

This trade scenario has been bandied about for at least two years now.

Maybe three.

Baseball is pitching, hitting, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Jun 21, 2011 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would do that in a heartbeat

Soriano’s value is relatively high (for him) right now. I say pull the trigger. If nothing else, you’ll be out from under the contract a year sooner.

by Orval Overall on Jun 20, 2011 6:20 PM CDT reply actions  

If I were Jim Hendry, I think I'd do this.

Zito is still a good teammate, and a legitimate innings eater who has never had an arm injury. He would be a big help to some of the Cubs’ younger pitchers — particularly if Demp is traded. The only caveat is that Zito has a vesting option for 2014 based on innings pitched. (Cot’s info) Since Zito usually pitches 200 innings, his $18M for 2014 be guaranteed — unless he gets released in 2013. It would also give Tyler Colvin half a season to show whether or not he is an everyday player.

OTOH, Brian Sabean would be an idiot for doing this. Sori is a low OBP fly-ball hitter, and Phone Co. Ballpark is where fly balls go to die. Sori also makes Pat Burrell look like a gold-glove OF. It also takes away his SP depth, since the Giants don’t have a good SP prospect in the high minors.

Maybe both guys would benefit from a change of scenery?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Jun 20, 2011 6:35 PM CDT reply actions  

But...but...Soriano's not playing that poorly this season.

And he didn’t play that poorly last season. And, as you rightly point out, he’d probably only play worse in ’Frisco.

Baseball is pitching, hitting, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Jun 21, 2011 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Zito is still a good teammate, and a legitimate innings eater who has never had an arm injury. He would be a big help to some of the Cubs’ younger pitchers — particularly if Demp is traded.

So… you’re advocating we get an $18M a year cheerleader / coach?

Sori also makes Pat Burrell look like a gold-glove OF.

This is a pretty ridiculous statement. Soriano is 20 runs better a year in left field over his career than Burrell is by UZR, and is better than Burrell by almost any other measure of fielding.

Brian Sabean would be an idiot for doing this.

I think you have that backwards. Hendry would have no reason to do this. Soriano has been far more valuable over the course of his contract, and is about a 3-win player at this point his career. Zito hasn’t put up a 3-win season since 2005.

by Wreckard on Jun 21, 2011 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

There's no reason for wither side to do this.

The giants value d and Soriano brings none of that. The cubs probably don’t want an 18 million dollar shawn estes either.

by SenorGato on Jun 20, 2011 8:00 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Yep, got me again.

It’s not that Zito is a pretty crappy pitcher and has been for most of the time since he stole the Cy Young from Pedro in ’02.

by SenorGato on Jun 21, 2011 2:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Mind you he's one of one baseball jersey's I own....

because I was a fanboy of the 2002 Zito and the curveball.

by SenorGato on Jun 21, 2011 2:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Besides clearing up some room in the OF

It doesn’t help us much. Soriano has been productive this year, like it or not. Seems like a non-move that doesn’t need to be made. As SG pointed out, the Giants value defense. Zito does nothing for us.

by renocubfan on Jun 20, 2011 10:08 PM CDT reply actions   2 recs

just for the sake of argument...

Soriano is doing alright this year, but what happens next year? or 13, or 14? i can see soriano declining even further before Zito does.

by epsilon on Jun 21, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wait, the DH isn't coming?

Oh crap!

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jun 21, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Obvioulsy

you expect a decline, but your not going to get any more value out of Zito, because the same thing is going to happen from him. Period. It just seems like a move that has no real basis and wouldn’t do much for either side. I’d still rather have a hitter that can go on a streak and carry a team for a few weeks than an aging soft throwing lefty that can’t. It wouldn’t be the worst trade in the world by any stretch, but it seems unnecessary.

by renocubfan on Jun 21, 2011 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Eh.

Sure Soriano is overpaid and makes mistakes, but I still like the guy and I think I’d rather have him than Zito.

by Ryno G on Jun 21, 2011 6:57 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Yesterday.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Jun 21, 2011 11:16 AM CDT reply actions  

Frisco...

…has a huge outfield don’t they? Soriano trying to roam that thing would be a nightmare.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 21, 2011 1:56 PM CDT reply actions  

Oh, yeah.

There’s no way this trade EVER happens. The Giants wouldn’t do it.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Jun 21, 2011 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Giants not doing it would be doing the Cubs a favor.

At least Soriano is a decent bat with power…Zito hasn’t been a decent pitcher in a long time.

by SenorGato on Jun 21, 2011 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Zito has actually been a 2 WAR pitcher the last two years

there’s noone in the Cubs system that looks like they could provide that right now.

There are plenty of players in the Cubs system that could come close to matching or exceed Soriano’s contribution (his WAR has fluctuated greatly…3 last year and -0.1 the year before that), if he continues what he’s doing now he’ll end up being a 2-3 WAR guy.

Even if Sori has a good year and is a 3 WAR guy it would be a net gain for the Cubs.

That’s the argument for why you do this from the Cubs perspective. It’s a legitimate position, but I could see being against the deal too.

"Playoffs?!" -Jim Mora

by Castro Por Presidente on Jun 21, 2011 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

2-3 WAR guy....

is both of their ceilings, and Zito does his every 5th day. Not to mention having Zito makes it hard to include a Cashner or McNutt into the rotation for at least two more years, and he’s not good enough that it’s worth that. Soriano isn’t holding back any significant LF prospects.

There’s also the argument that Zito would be the Cubs 5th best SP option while Zito is probably our 2nd or 3rd best hitter, and the only guy besides Pena hitting HRs this year.

by SenorGato on Jun 21, 2011 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Zito hasn’t been a decent pitcher in a long time."

I guess it depends on how you define “decent”. If the standard is TOR, then, no he certainly hasn’t been decent.

But his fangraphs page shows Zito posted a WAR over 2.0 each of the last two seasons while sporting an ERA close to 4 (FIP & xFIP were a little higher, but not damningly so… and seeing as Zito’s actual ERA has outperformed his FIPs each season of his career, I’d say you could call it a pattern). Certainly he hasn’t started well this season, but he’s made three starts.

I’m not saying I would surely do the trade. And you can certainly make a case that Sori has more value, but I don’t believe it is accurate to say Zito hasn’t been “decent” in a long time.

"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."

by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST

by fsuapollo on Jun 21, 2011 2:34 PM CDT reply actions  

haha

beat me to it

"Playoffs?!" -Jim Mora

by Castro Por Presidente on Jun 21, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ugh. Reply fail. This was for SenorGato.

"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."

by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST

by fsuapollo on Jun 21, 2011 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Quantity over quality

WAR is cumulative, so this is an example of quantity trumping quality. He’s usually trotting out there for 200 innings of 4.50 – 5.00 xFIP ball, which is pretty replaceable.

For reference, Doug Davis’ xFIP is 4.26 this year, and usually hovers around 4.50. Rodrigo Lopez, same territory. So Zito is much more replaceable than Soriano.

by Wreckard on Jun 21, 2011 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I dunno.

I’m not sure xFIP or FIP are the best measures for Zito. I’m by no means discounting the stats totally… they surely have value. But since Zito has outperformed his "FIP"s every single season, it just doesn’t seem like the best way of evaluating him.

And given how the Cubs’ pitching depth has performed this year, “cumulative” seems like a worthwhile measure for a SP. Zito is very durable, throws plenty of innings, and puts up numbers that are average. I consider that a “decent” pitcher. That was the only conclusion I made in my post. I even specifically noted that I wasn’t convinced Zito was (or wasn’t) “more replaceable” than Soriano.

"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."

by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST

by fsuapollo on Jun 21, 2011 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Soriano for anybody

Yeah, I know there should be an apostrophe in "Vails," but punctuation wasn't an option when I signed up.

by Mike Vails Evil Twin on Jun 21, 2011 5:50 PM CDT reply actions  

again

with this?? do it.if fonzie didnt make so much money we probably woul;d like him a whole lot more. he has decent seasons but not 18 mill worth. trade him.

by NOMAR on Jun 22, 2011 4:42 AM CDT reply actions  

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