White Sox Execute Plays, Cubs Don't. Result: 4-3 Loss
I don't want to turn this post into a bashing of Cubs manager Mike Quade, but...
Oh, what's the use. Yes, I do want to do that. The eighth inning of the Cubs' 4-3 loss to the White Sox Wednesday night is yet another example of Quade's managing style that I believe may have cost the Cubs at least a chance to tie the game.
Did he not notice that Ozzie Guillen ordered a squeeze in the third inning? With one of the slowest men in baseball, A.J. Pierzynski, on third base? (Never mind that A.J. got there by hitting his first triple in more than two years.)
Let's review. Blake DeWitt led off the eighth with a dribbler that eluded everyone in the infield for a single. Tony Campana ran for him and stole second base (although he'd have been safe anyway, as the ball got away from A.J.) and took third on an groundout by Jeff Baker. That brought Koyie Hill to the plate.
Now, some might suggest pinch-hitting Geovany Soto in that situation. Here's the thing: Geo is hitting .197 in June and has only one PH at-bat all season.
But hey! Koyie Hill is a good bunter and you've got a good (and fast) baserunner on third. Why not try that squeeze that you saw the guy in the other dugout do just a few innings ago, Mike?
Apparently, that idea was just too much for the Cubs manager. He let Koyie attempt to drive in the run another way, and was quoted as saying:
"At that point, with Campana on third, I wanted the best chance to make contact," he said. "I thought Koyie has gotten made some big hits, and I wasn't sure we needed a base hit there. If he puts the ball in play, I feel like we have a shot. … It didn't work out."
Wait, what? It's true, a sac fly would have tied the game. So would a squeeze bunt, Mike. That's what you should have called for. Also, Hill hasn't played in five days and had already struck out twice. You didn't see the K coming, Mike?
But wait, I'm not finished. Ozzie then called for lefthander Matt Thornton to face Kosuke Fukudome. The chances of Fukudome getting a hit off Thornton are roughly the same as if you put me up there. Since DeWitt had already been pinch-hit for, why not bat DJ LeMahieu for Kosuke, since you're going to have to bring him into the game anyway? Or, send Lou Montanez to bat for Kosuke and put him in right field.
Nope. Kosuke was sent up to flail away, and flail he did, striking out, an utterly predictable result, and the Cubs had little chance against Sergio Santos in the ninth inning.
Doug Davis didn't throw all that well, but he did allow only three earned runs -- the fourth scored after DeWitt made an error that prolonged the Sox' fifth inning. One thing Quade did that I actually liked was to order an intentional walk to Paul Konerko in the first inning with a runner on third and two out. Konerko has been perhaps the hottest hitter in baseball the last few weeks -- from May 28-June 21, in 20 games he had hit .446/.512/.986 with 11 HR and 22 RBI, homering in his last five games. You can't let a guy like that beat you, and it worked; Alexei Ramirez popped up to end the inning.
The Cubs bullpen did an excellent job Wednesday night; Chris Carpenter, Jeff Samardzija and Sean Marshall each threw a perfect inning. And Cubs hitters didn't execute when they could have. But part of that is Mike Quade not putting the right call on, or putting up the right hitter for the situation.
The crowd at the Cell was about the same number-wise as the previous two nights, and just about as subdued, despite the White Sox win. There seemed a bit less taunting than in previous years; Sox fans appeared just happy their team won. I did spot an incident in the left field lower deck in the middle innings, but it ended as quickly as it began; security walked some people up the aisle and out.
And as if all of that, and losing another series, weren't enough, this happened on the way home. I exited the Kennedy Expressway and pulled up at the last traffic signal before I got home; there was one car ahead of me at the light.
A Yellow Cab. With the cab number 1908. Will this thing never leave us alone?
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Al, how long can the lack of leadership from Ricketts continue?
We are back to a season high fourteen games under .500, Ricketts is twenty six under .500 as an owner in a time when parity dominates baseball. We have the second worst record in all off the majors with the fifth or sixth highest payroll. The lack of urgency to win fron Ricketts is just alarming. Everybody needs to be on notice NOW. You start winning baseball games or you’re all gone. The division is so winnable this year and we get screwed out of some summer contention fun with this garbage team. Guys like Ramirez are just cashing checks. Disgraceful. How much do they really care if they can’t win more than two games in a row? Think about it. Qaude, what can you say? Never seen a more minor league guy in the dugout. Hendry hired Qaude and assembled this mess. From everybody on down, enough is enough, Al.
by MikeJW on Jun 23, 2011 7:34 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I can't really argue with anything you've written.
But I just don’t see anything happening before the season is over.
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No.
You expect him to rant and rave and fire everyone? Not realistic.
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Ricketts admittedly is interested in attendance (comment this weekend) but Quade..
I have seen so many tactical moves or lack of them by Quade that clearly demonstrates he is way over his head and I bet the players have stronger opinions than even Al’s assessment of the 8th inning. He lacks foresight and manages like a minor league developmental manager.
who cares, in that by August 1st who will be watching or listening anyway…
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
He doesn't have to rant and rave
Firing someone is absolutely called for.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jun 23, 2011 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Right before the draft? No... While trying to sign draft picks? No...
In the middle of the trading season? No… At the end of the year? Absolutely.
I'd really recommend that you form your own opinion of Ricketts,
as opposed to letting Gene Wojo-whatski form an opinion for you.
“Lack of urgency to win,” is such an off-base opinion, when you look at the roster and payroll he inherited, and the time-line it takes to transition from that inherited mess, to a team that has his own mark on it.
This isn’t basketball, where you can go out and sing one or two guys and boom: you;re a championship contender. This is baseball… you need the top 40 players in your organization to finish a marathon of a season, and you have entire minor league organization that builds the foundation of your team. It doesn’t happen overnight.
Do I like the Mike Quade hiring? Hell no. I didn’t approve of it from the start, and I sure as heck don;t approve of it now. But that hiring was just a placeholder, because it takes time.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
by SackMan on Jun 23, 2011 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions 9 recs
Common sense is a rare thing so I'm going to
pretend I rec’d this until I do rec it.
by SenorGato on Jun 23, 2011 8:00 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Hell, I'll rec it
But not your post, because you should have too
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
I gotta agree with Al
You pretty much said it yourself, this team isn’t going anywhere this year. Reacting now only gets the wheels going again for next year to be more of the same.
I’m not saying I don’t expect something to happen after the regular season is over, but I just don’t see it happening before then.
One more thing, SackMan is right. Given what he (Ricketts) walked into it’s not exactly fair to say there’s a “lack of urgency” to win games. Especially given the way that Ricketts has said he wants to win (a la the Red Sox, ie. build up the farm and make smart acquisitions here and there).
They have two liter bottles now? To think I spent all that time demanding a liter!
there is a lack of urgency on the field
and somebody needs to tell the GM and manager it is simply unacceptable to be playing this poorly for three straight months. I see no urgency from the manager, GM and the majority of these players. That starts from the top.
Do you really believe you have even the slightest idea what the owner is saying to the GM and manager?
Here’s a news flash – not everything that gets said is said publicly. Nor should it be. The hysteria about Ricketts’ supposedly indifferent attitude has started to reach epic proportions.
Here’s the truth: there’s NOTHING Quade or Hendry can do to make this team a contender this year. The decisions that are keeping us from being a contender were made in 2006, 2007, and most of all in 2009. Hendry can’t simply wake up one morning, realize his job is on the line, and then all of a sudden roll out 12 new All-Stars with cost controlled contracts. Baseball doesn’t work that way. We have a shitty team because its full of aging veterans who are quickly being replaced by AA and AAA players who aren’t yet ready for prime time. That’s a fact. Nothing Ricketts says or does between now and November will change that fact – and you’re still assuming that anything that doesn’t get leaked directly to the Trib must not be getting said at all.
by Orval Overall on Jun 23, 2011 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions 15 recs
What is this a renaissance on BCB?
J/k I know it’s just 4-5 other posters that seem to think this way and lay off the giant red panic button.
eight others, apparently.
which is why we need to stick together.
by Orval Overall on Jun 23, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Agree, except with respect to Quade
All that you say makes sense, except it doesn’t account for the fact that Quade consistently makes bad, and sometimes inexplicable, strategic decisions. This team clearly isn’t talented enough to contend, but it could be winning more games with a better manager, and we should get one. Now.
Did we really put Jose Macias on the field? Really???
Every manager in baseball...
makes bad, inexplicable decisions. That’s part of the job, because everyone else in the world has the gift of hindsight (which isn’t an actual skill).
Yes it's hindsight when we come on BCB the next day to talk recap.
This does not mean we are not screaming the exact sentiment DURING the game when we are, for the most part, paying close attention to the game.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
If that's is about the bunt...
I’d probably lay it down too. I wouldn’t trust Hill to actually nail it, but that’s besides the point I guess.
You clearly weren't on the game thread
last night.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Jun 23, 2011 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Obviously, every manager makes decisions that
turn out badly, and that’s fine when the decision seems reasonable at the time it’s made. The problem I and many others here have with Quade – and I believe this is an obviously point that you are for some reason choosing to ignore – is that he makes decisions that are self-evidently bad at the time he makes them.
And, btw, your unnecessary sarcasm kind of sucks, as does your suggestion that fans who criticize the manager are naive or ignorant.
Did we really put Jose Macias on the field? Really???
by ksreed on Jun 23, 2011 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
I've suggested that?
Would YOU trust Koyie Hill to pull off a squeeze? He could call it all day, the players still have to be able to pull it off.
And while your first sentence sounds nice and sensible, how often does a bad outcome actually get called a reasonable decision in reality? Very rarely, because that’s not what people care about.
I actually wouldn’t have left Hill in there at all. There were several guys on the bench who had a much better chance of making some kind of contact with the ball, which is all we needed at that point. And if that hadn’t been the case, I definitely would have called for the squeeze so as to avoid the strike out.
On the other point, I think most knowledgable fans are capable of distinguishing between a poor decision and a reasonable decision that turns out badly.
Did we really put Jose Macias on the field? Really???
As alkappy pointed out later in the thread...
All Hill had to do was make contact, which he does nearly 80% of the time.
You don't pull the backup catcher to execute a squeeze
Game is tied 4-4 at that point. Game goes to extra innings, Soto gets injured, what do you do?
Someone's going to say DeWitt.
It’ll go green because that’s what passes for quality.
by SenorGato on Jun 23, 2011 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Like, environmentally green?
Because finding new uses for crap is environmentally green.
Weekend contributor at Windy City Gridiron
by Steven Schweickert on Jun 23, 2011 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
What's the probability of that?
I can’t ever remember it happening. The critical moment in the game occurred with Hill at bat. Hill is batting .000 with RISP. Do anything else need be said?
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Yes.
Because Koyie Hill is a good bunter.
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Bullcrap
There’s plenty they can do to make things better now and for the future, not a contender though, that would be unpossible
1)Stop playing Blake Dewitt
2)release Koyie Hill & bring up castillo
3) Hendry Resign
4) Quade resign
5) Crane Kenney fired during the pre-game show
"Go Cubs!"
Disagree onthe lack of urgency
There’s a lack of execution and good play, but I’m not so sure I’d be getting in the face of Pena, Zambrano, Dempster or even Koyie Hill and tell them they don’t care.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
I think those guys all care.
Not sure about some others, and in Hill’s case the fact that he cares can’t overcome the fact that he’s just offensive death.
Did we really put Jose Macias on the field? Really???
Whereas Geo is an offensive titan?
Since Geo came off the DL:
Soto .197/.284/.348 (.632 OPS)
Hill .235/.350/.294 (.644 OPS)
I know Hill’s not a good player, but he’s had 20 PA in the last 20+ games. How much more would Castillo have created in that sample size? One extra hit? Two?
Don’t you think we could lay off Hill until we’ve at least addressed the festering vortex of awfulness that is the performance of the guy who actually plays catcher for this team?
by Limey Cub Fan Jay on Jun 23, 2011 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not about right now...
It’s about the future. Hill has no potential or future value. Soto has some based on his past performances. We have no idea what Castillo can do, and that’s partly the fault of Hill’s existence on the team, and the way his managers have used him.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Castillo should've played when Soto was on the DL
Castillo should otherwise be at Iowa and not rotting on a bench when Soto makes 6 starts for every 1 Hill does.
Did you see the chips flying off Hill's mask
when Carpenter threw 100 mph? Wow. Hill seemed amused.
Fasten those seat belts...
Yep... that was cool!
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I was going to give Quade kudos for going to Carpenter
Carpenter’s velocity (hitting 100mph on the gun) was an absurd change of pace from the soft tossing Doug Davis, and it had the White Sox hitters thrown for a loop.
However, Quade quickly lost one of his only kudos of the year, when he left Tony Campana stranded at 3rd in the 8th. I mean… not even a squeeze attempt with Koyie Hill? You’re seriously relying on Hill to drive in that run by himself there? Unreal. That was the game tying run… and Campana’s speed changes games. Furthermore, the only major league manager in the ballpark schooled you earlier on the squeeze himself.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
by SackMan on Jun 23, 2011 7:47 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Campana might have been able to tag on a soft pop up to 2B (hyperbole, but you get the idea)
All Hill has to do is make contact and that run is in.
And to answer, no, I don't trust my back up catcher who cant hit worth a damn to lay down a quality squeeze.
And no, you can’t take him out because if the game goes extras and Geo is hurt you’re screwed. Best possible move there was a contact play.
Have you ever seen a catcher pulled in the late innings only to see
his replacement get injured later on? Good managers play to win, not protect against very unlikely injuries.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Soto has already pulled his groin once this year
If anyone is vulnerable to coming into a game and playing the most physically demanding position cold, it’s Soto.
That doesn't respond to the question
What is the probability of Soto being injured in the game mentioned?
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Was listening to the game on the radio in the eighth
And was begging for pat to start describing a squeeze situation happening in front of him. But it never happened. Cmon, Q. Cmon.
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
by mikegncb34 on Jun 23, 2011 7:55 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
See my post above... we were begging for the same thing.
And our so-called manager couldn’t even figure it out.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Well, swinging for the fences wasn't wasn't the right play either!!!
Hill didn’t shorten up or give himself up and try and make contact, instead he aired it out with full head jerking swings, that was dumb and ANYTHING ELSE would’ve been better!!
"Go Cubs!"
If you took a boat, it'd be name the Brant Brown
nooooooooooooooooooo!
Agree on Fuk, crapshoot on Hill.
I really thought Hill would hit one on the ground and Campy would beat the throw home, that was a tough call. But, full agreement on Fuk batting; as soon as the lefty was announced I would have taken him out for a RH bat.
I really do think we are playing better the last ten games. Pena has been on fire and seems like we are getting his best play and leadership, man I really like what he is doing. BUT, this is a results driven game and we are 14 under. We have the second worst record in ALL baseball. How long can this continue? It really would not take a lot to be 5 games out in this division. Let’s not wait too long to make some changes and get things on the right track. Are we really the second worst team in all baseball? That is the question Ricketts needs to keep making himself as he evaluates this season.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
by mrcubsfan on Jun 23, 2011 7:56 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
It's easy to be misled into thinking the Cubs are "playing better."
THEY ARE 7-14 IN JUNE! I don’t care how they look, I WANT W’s!
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
I believe we all do.
Wanting them will not make the team better.
Something needs to happen
The Pirates and the Nationals are .500. The Rays spend practically $100 million less on payroll and they win. What gives?
Organizational philosophy. Top. To. Bottom.
Also, the Rays draft at least twice in the top 20 every year, it seems. /exageration
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
Well the Rays put up with a decade of being the worst team in baseball...
as they acquired BJ Upton, David Price, Delmon Young (who became Matt Garza), Evan Longoria, and Jeff Neimann amongst their many high first round picks.
The Pirates and Nationals put their heads down and went to work years ago, and that work is starting to bear fruit. McCutchen, the Pirates’ best player, was drafted in ‘05. ’05 for f’s sake. It’s not that easy.
Al--I agree with pretty much everything you said--but
I’m pretty sure Fukudome got a hit off Thornton on Tuesday night—didn’t he? It was surprising-but Thornton pretty much throws straight heat so a nasy left-left breaking pitch isn’t as much of a concern.
"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know. " Abraham Lincoln
Fuku's hit the night before was a seeing eye single...probably made contact with his..
eyes closed.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Yea--it was 2 or 3 hopper
but in reality, who is a better major league hitter, Kosuke or Montanez? Their OBPs have a spread of like .115. I know -matchups-but I’m not so sure I’d have put Montanez in against Thornton either. Montanez looks to be an exercise in futility to me. We drafted him like 11 years ago?
"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know. " Abraham Lincoln
Lou Montanez is a great player.
He ranks amongst greats like Thomas Diamond, ABD, and Ramon Ortiz as guys our stupid FO and manager consistently underuse and underrate.
Oh, for heaven's sakes.
Am I suggesting playing him every day, or ahead of some other players?
No. I suggested pinch hitting him once, in a situation that called for it. Your comment here is uncalled for.
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I didn't see you suggest him at all.
T’was a joke Al. I’m sorry you’re that easily offended.
Also, you calling ideas dumb are uncalled for, but it happens anyway.
I’d rather see Fukudome hit than Montanez hit in a tough spot. Fukudome is arguably the most professional hitter on this team as far as working counts and handling pitchers. Montanez is a decade long minor leaguer who’s done nothing to impress in 3 shots a the majors.
And even though Fukudome got a hit off Thornton the night before...
… the chances he’ll do it again are pretty small.
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Oh, really?
Why? What basis in fact do you have for this Al? He’s hitting .304/.360/.435 against LHP this year.
What if he just didn’t make an out and got on base again?
He’s a better hitter than Montanez. Period.
by SenorGato on Jun 23, 2011 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh look it's TJ adding nothing again.
Morning to you too.
OTOH it's a good thing you came...
You make excellent cover for Al, who has no real facts besides “well Montanez is RH” to back his whole hit Lou Montanez thing. Maybe with you here to deflect we’ll get a form of answer.
That was a situation that screamed for a rh hitter
vs. a lefty that throws 98mph. Sorry but you are simply wrong.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 23, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
No, I'm really not.
You don’t sit down one of the team’s few productive hitters for Lou friggin Montanez based on the fact that Lou is RH. That is dumb. Not only is it dumb, but it completely ignores the fact that Kosuke is hitting lefties pretty well this year, he hit Thorton the night before, and that Fukudome is straight up better than Montanez.
Go on though…insist again…it makes you more right somehow, maybe.
by SenorGato on Jun 23, 2011 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Vs Crain?
Not so much that it screamed for a righty, but a righty at least has more of a chance…
Righties were hitting something like .196 off Crain with 8 extra base hits… whereas lefties have three hits in 38 at-bats against Crain, period, no extra base knocks.
Weekend contributor at Windy City Gridiron
by Steven Schweickert on Jun 23, 2011 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Gato is a water cariier for Hendry and Quade...everything they do is gold...
Of course Dome should have been PH for….Hill should have bunted as well, if not you PH for him.
Its easy for us to see this but challenging for people like Gato….
Hm.
You say that like I’ve not been here before. Lol.
Weekend contributor at Windy City Gridiron
by Steven Schweickert on Jun 23, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Do you know what SSS means?
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
i'm with you, cat.
its not like fukudome struck out on three pitches. and he was hammering the ball all night. much better chance than montanez’s long swing.
by doug dascenzo's change-up on Jun 24, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Good morning...
That enraged human being…I left that person last night in a dark corner and sped off….
Jokes aside, games like these makes me ever so more certain that there are clueless people running the team. And it starts with the top.
Two Words: Salty Saltwell
by Unclemike on Jun 23, 2011 8:13 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Can we talk about what a formidable bullpen the Cubs might have next year?
Marmol
Marshall
Shark
Carpenter
Cashner*
(Veteran spot)
(Rookie spot)
Pair that with what could be an improved rotation:
CJ Wilson
Garza
Zambrano
Dempster
Wells
And you’ve got yourself an all right pitching staff.
*I really think Cashner should be moved out of a starting role. An injury to his arm in the first week of the season really scares me. Seems best suited for a back-end-of-the-bullpen kind of role.
CJ Wilson?
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
I don't get the obsession with Wilson
Not that he isn’t very good, but I can’t seem him coming to Chicago especially since the Rangers and Yankees will be players for him. Not to mention that he will be 31 next year.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 23, 2011 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Who else do you sign next year?
To me, the Cubs will have a large need in SP and there really isn’t a whole lot out there. I think they need to sign a guy this off season and next—when they have more money coming off the books (so a guy like Grienke).
By 2013 it could be:
Grienke
Wilson
Garza
McNutt
Wells
I'm thinking more...
Hamels
Wilson
Garza
Wells
McNutt
I was going to mention Hamels as well.
I might take him over Grienke. But obviously, either would be nice.
No Grienke. No.
He couldn’t handle the lifestyle in KC, what makes you think he could handle Chicago, I don’t think he has the testicular fortitude to do it.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
I think the Cubs need SP too
I like Wilson, but I don’t see the path that leads him to Wrigley.
Not sure on who else the Cubs can get. It will take some creative thinking.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 23, 2011 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Next best available is Edwin Jackson.
I don’t think he would have much of an impact. I like Wilson better at the right price.
A trade is always in option…but this offseason has to be spent getting at least a solid #2 (and getting a #1 next year) in addition to getting one of the 1B and a power hitting corner outfielder.
I see trade as the only real possibility
I don’t know who though.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 23, 2011 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions
31 ain't nothing.
What is this the 1400’s?
My point though
is that the Cubs most likely won’t be good next year. When he’s 32, maybe, but it may even be the year after that. Now that’s when the decline comes.
He is a lightly used 30 YO at this point. Not that many innings under his belt.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 23, 2011 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Why won't the club be good next year?
A big bat and a pitcher like Wilson would go a long way with this team. It’s not like the team/franchise is devoid of long term talent.
I think that the talent the Cubs have
Still needs some maturation. I don’t think they’ll be properly ripe by next year. They can still be effective, but I think that next year is not quite enough time.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 23, 2011 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Right. As long as they do the right things this off season,
I think this can be a greatly improved team, maybe contenders. But not until 2013 will I EXPECT them to contend.
Oh I don't see best team in baseball good but...
a couple smart moves (Fielder/Pujols + Wilson + Beltran being one of my favorite routes) and this team could be a very strong contender.
I was just thinking that.
Does it seems he has fully healed, or hasn’t become complacent with his immense talent… which is dwindling?
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
I know we've talked Beltran before
On first glance, I didn’t like it, but the more I looked after your suggestion the better it seemed.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 23, 2011 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep...
for a top tier player on his last contract with a whole lot of pride on the line. Talents like Beltran are the kind of talents this franchise should be pursuing, even at his advanced age. His skillset at the plate is something this team severely lacks, he won’t hurt us with his D in RF, and he’s a consummate professional all around. The fact that he’s a decorated, borderline HOF talent also works in his favor…
Second sentence
*if they’re pursuing a veteran talent to help out the hopefully new 1B.
I would agree with all of that.
But do they have enough money for Fielder/Wilson/Beltran?
That's the big question.
I have to say that I’m kind of excited for the offseason.
In June...
because that’s how this season’s went.
Deja Vu
We can all see the results of adding Pena and Garza.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Yes and we were only two players away....
Hindsight much?
by SenorGato on Jun 24, 2011 12:21 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
That's what we were told
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
36 is something though...
and if it ends up taking 5 years to sign Wilson, the Cubs better pass.
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by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Fight the Yankees.
I hope CC opts out on them.
He only opts out to get more money from them
CC will be on the mound Opening Day for the Yankees.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 23, 2011 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes, but it'd help take them out of the Wilson race...
CC would be a huge priority for them.
The Yankees have so much frickin money that it wouldn't
We’re only talking about a difference of $3-4M more per year.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 23, 2011 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not saying it's unlikely.
I’m just saying you can’t count on it. I don’t know if we can expect Wood to take that kind of pay cut two years in a row. And there is a good chance he might just retire.
to work for a team you love
when you already have enough money to last 2 lifetimes? I could see him coming back and then get traded to a contender at the deadline (hell that might happen this year)
I cant see him retiring at this point.
And I think with all the money coming off the books we can give Kerry 3 mil or so next year. Money probably won’t be a problem, so barring an unexpected retirement I would bet he returns next year.
by Dcr18 on Jun 23, 2011 9:33 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
But what will he be?
He hasn’t been super-effective this year. I’m a big fan of Wood’s, but I think expectations for him for next year have got to be low.
Did we really put Jose Macias on the field? Really???
Other than a small rough patch he's been pretty solid.
He’s still a very nice 7th/8th inning option and the best right handed reliever other than Marmol.
by Dcr18 on Jun 23, 2011 1:20 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
the fact that it happened
the first game of the year doesnt mean he isnt suited for the starting role – these things happen, the fact that it happened to the Cubs to a young pitcher gets us all gunshy
Oh and I think Wells isnt back next year
He spent some/most of his college career as a closer, though.
I don’t know a lot about these things, but it does worry me. We just don’t know how well his arm is suited as a starter.
I think you have to give him another chance to start.
He’s got to much upside not to try it, and it’s not like he had any injury concerns before this year. One injury doesn’t mean he can’t handle starting, but if it re-occurs or he has more injury issues in the next year or so then he may have to move to the pen for good.
by Dcr18 on Jun 23, 2011 1:25 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
no way.
cashner should be given every chance to start. and we don’t need to spend top dollar on cj wilson’s mediocrity.
by doug dascenzo's change-up on Jun 24, 2011 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Normally......
…….. I’m not into the arm chair Quade bashing because most people around here who think they know better well, don’t. We don’t know all of what’s going on in the dugout and on the field. But some 1,700 miles away as the crow flies, here in Long Beach, CA, sitting in my local sports bar watching a few games at once, even I was yelling for the bunt in the eighth inning.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
by BeerCub on Jun 23, 2011 8:19 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
It's disappointing to get beat by an AL team..
through the use of what is mostly an NL play. Even tenured MLB managers have a solid bench coach like Zimmer or some other crusty war horse, but Quade has Listach. Not so sure he’s of much use in game when a calm voice is needed to lend some tactical advice. But Listach is who he picked, so it’s his fault either way.
"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know. " Abraham Lincoln
I was just about to say, where the hell is Listach during all this?
Does he ever tell Quade “Gee Mike, maybe you should do this instead”????
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
In California,
isn’t it against the law to cry “bunt” in a crowded bar?
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Mike Quade is a complete idiot.
He actually thinks that Koyie Hill had the best chance of making contact? Despite the fact that Koyie strikes out about 25% of his at bats?
Complete buffoon. Please fire this minor leaguer.
by kanderber on Jun 23, 2011 8:21 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Just wait until...
Septermber, July call-ups. This minor league manager, will manage those young bucks to a winning 2nd half record, or they will all have a record number of slivers in their asses.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
The only thing that even makes a shred of sense in his decision is....
That pretty much everyone expected a squeeze and so therefore the Sox would be right on top of it and make the out at the plate. I am not defending Quade at all. I think it was a no brainer to do the squeeze, but it did look like AJ was ready for it on the first pitch and that the Sox were probably expecting it. To me it has to be done even if they are expecting it though.
That's just it
The squeeze seems like the only option. I mean take your chances with possibly scoring a run or getting thrown out as your other option is most likely a strikeout. I would say the odds of scoring the run on a squeeze were better than the odds of Hill not striking out.
No element of surprise, for sure...
but I think Campana’s speed negates that. I think you have to at least show it on the first pitch. Get them to react to the rest of the at-bat, if you don’t get a fair bunt on the first one. It’s just standard strategy, and Quade lacks it.
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by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Fukudome did get a hit off Thornton the night before
I was OK with Fukudome batting there, because he’s been pretty hot lately, but the Hill at bat was inexcusable.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 23, 2011 8:21 AM CDT reply actions
Both AB's were inexusable...Fuku's hit off Thornton was a fluke...a soft seeing eye single.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
After he worked the count into his favor...
but yeah…lets hindsight it up!
I thought he was Russell's Dad?
Are they all related somehow?
weren't you the guy that said you don't see a lot of the games?
If you were following it on gamecast or cbs sportsline you probably thought like anyone else that didn’t see it, that Fukudome’s hit was a screaming line drive to right field.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 23, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I saw that hit.
There was nothing lucky about that hit or AB. Montanez sucks.
by SenorGato on Jun 24, 2011 12:25 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
It doesn't matter what Fukudome's numbers against lefties are...
It’s only 27 PAs.
It matters what Thornton’s numbers against lefties are. He’s face 45 left-handed batters this year… only 9 have got hits! Thinking Fukudome could repeat even what he did the other night, just doesn’t make any sense.
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by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
So 27 PAs are too small a sample size but 45 isnt?
It goes both ways.
You want to look at Thornton's career numbers?
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by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm more worried about his numbers this year, because that's what he's currently doing...
Like how in the last 7 days his line is .333/.333/.667?
Or how his high leverage numbers are .378/.463/.511? Medium leverage numbers are .409/.409/.455? .278/.341/.389 with RISP??
Ohhh, you mean his line against lefties, .237/.273/.342? They’re all small samples, you can make numbers say anything you want them to. Point is, he isn’t having a great year and he’s not nearly as unhittable as you’re making him out to be.
Don't take it out on me that you didn't bother to look it up before you opened your mouth.
You’re the one who assumed I was making a judgment based on a small sample size. That’s your fault, not mine. You should stop assuming things about people you don’t know. You’re not talented or educated enough for it.
This year, Thornton has a .200 BAA and 9 K/9.
Over his career, Thornton has a .220 BAA and almost 12 K/9.
Short term… long term… either way you look at it, expecting Fukudome to do anything against Thornton is just dumb.
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by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I JUST gave you Thornton's numbers for this year... Obviously I've looked them up
Once again, 45 ABs is a small sample size… so it’s a fact you’re making an assumption on a small sample size. Also, your .200 BAA is simply incorrect. As I stated, lefties are hitting .237 against him, and righties are hitting him better than that. I’ve also pointed out that Fukudome is having a good year against lefties, but you’ve managed to ignore that as well.
You can take your sad attempts at insults and try them on someone else…
You're absolutely right...
I wasn’t factoring out the walks, but it’s .214… so I don’t know where you’re getting your number from either. If you need me to cut and paste it from fangraphs, I’ll do so. Maybe your numbers are missing last night’s at-bat where he made Fukudome look really bad last night, which even a stone-cold idiot could have expected. (and I know one PA wouldn’t make that amount of difference… your number is just wrong… big shock.)
Last time I checked, 740 batters faced over his career isn’t a small sample size! What part of that are you unable to grasp? You’re basing EVERY part of your argument on small sample sizes and you continue to prove that… there’s no assumption there. Their entire careers show that expecting Fukudome to do anything positive in that situation is just plain dumb. The choice is yours.
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by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow, I really don't even see a need to attempt to hold a conversation with someone that has nothing to offer but insults.
And I see that I didn’t have last nights numbers, but seriously? Settle down. You’re getting way too worked up over this. I’ve said many times, looking at this years number (which are more relevant than anything that happened 5+ years ago), he’s not as dominant as years past and he’s been downright BAD in high leverage situations. Fukudome is also hitting lefties well.
Was it the move I would have made? No, was it as absolutely awful as you’re making it out to be when the other option was a 29 year old career AAA player? Also no.
Wait,
what? Sorry, I missed the game last night because, well, it’s summertime in Chicago and the Cubs are being the Cubs. Are you telling me that with the game on the line late Quade let Hill bat for himself, and Fukudome? Against a good lefty? You’re serious?
No, he's not making it up
Usually we see that line in a postgame win recap. Like every time thy win.
I think it’s time we all just believe everything that’s written here on wrap-ups because this cubs team is just garbage and full of ridiculous surprises
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
by mikegncb34 on Jun 23, 2011 8:51 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
This is really a little depressing..
I’m a big fan of Quade, and do think that he can grow into the job. You know, if the Cubs are going to quietly move in a bunch of kids, at least in theory he’s a pretty good guy to manage them. But some of these decisions are just real head scratchers.
But as I’d mentioned before, this is a pretty big day, in my opinion. Since the 20th or so of last month, they’ve played a ton of games against good competition, including a bunch of teams ahead of them in the NL Central. With an off day, a real good point to sit and look at where the team is at, and what can be realistically accomplished this season. By my count, they’re a depressing 11-21. Couple that with plays and manager decisions over that time that just aren’t all that good (and don’t seem to be getting better), I feel like it’s time to start winding down 2011, and start making more decisions toward 2012.
Just my two cents.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 23, 2011 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions
**they** win
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
by mikegncb34 on Jun 23, 2011 8:52 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes, because you don't take out a catcher in a contact situation when you're tied...
It’s dangerous baseball that could leave you with an emergency catcher playing in crunch time. Also, look at Fukudome’s #s against lefties, he wasn’t a bad option there.
I get some of the hate on Quade, but those were not really what I’d call terrible decisions last night.
Look at Thornton's numbers against lefties there...
any lefty batting there is a bad option.
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by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
snakes hissing?
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
No, they're not.
Look them up for yourself, since it’s obvious you haven’t.
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by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Because there's the rest of his career to consider.
He’s good against lefties this year, and he’s been good against them over his entire career.
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by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Just ignore the entire fact that his career numbers are crumbling before his eyes this year...
And you need to take 2011 into account more than 2006. Sorry, I look at more than his entire career.
And his numbers this year...
against LHBs, as I’ve shown over and over and over… don’t make your case. They’re good enough this year to get a guy who has a long career of being sub-par against LHPs. 27 PAs this year doesn’t change that expectation. Also, a walk there, which is Fukudome’s main positive offensively, doesn’t really help the Cubs all that much.
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by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Soriano stole a base last night
I could hardly believe it, we were just talking about how his legs are gone yesterday, and then he does that. Not sure what to think now…
It was off Pierzynski
The worst throwing arm in baseball. Give Soriano props, but Pierzynski should be ashamed of himself.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 23, 2011 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Ha
I know, I like Hill as a backup, I think he is serviceable and about half the price of other backup catchers
When you are 14 games under .500 and going nowhere
What would we have to lose by taking a chance on a suicide squeeze bunt?
I don’t think Q is a big risk taker.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jun 23, 2011 8:35 AM CDT reply actions
In this situation, he should have been.
What does he have to lose? Seriously, you are absolutely correct.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Surprised
The fact that the Cubs were so surprised by the White Sox squeeze shows how absolutely overmatched he is. Clearly the squeeze was brilliant as it helped provide the extra run they needed to win the game. I know it wasn’t the winning run, but without it they don’t necessarily win the game.
the trust and respect of the fans and players
oh wait…
Blake "The Franchise" DeWitt will lead us to the promised land
by jesus christos on Jun 23, 2011 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
The risk was to let Hill swing. The high percentage play was to bunt.
Bad teams and organizations find ways to lose. It’s a shame. If DWitt make a routine play and Quade calls for a bunt, you have a chance at winning 2 of 3 in their house. Quade must go. The sooner the better. Unfortunately, after watching Hendry these many years, I know he won’t fire him. At least not until the season is over and we have lost 95 games.
The Cubs have played Milwaukee, the Yankees and White Sox tough.Tthey are 5-5 against those teams. But because of poor defense at times, poor 8th inning pitching at times and poor manager decisions at times, they blew a couple of those games. Not the end of the world but things that have to be corrected going foward.
Now that I have gotten my frustration out there has been some positives the last week or so. Pena is supplying the power we need. Castro continues to develop into one of the elite young players. The starting pitching has been better(not Wells yet). Spellcheck and Carpenter are showing signs of being valuable bullpen guys.
Two guys still killing us are Soto and Ramirez. We need production from them if we plan on enjoying baseball the rest of this year. Now let’s not play down to Kansas City!
Completely agree with all of this.
The lack of production from Soto and Ramirez may be the biggest problem we have.
Did we really put Jose Macias on the field? Really???
I should add . . .
that in Ramirez’s case, we may just be seeing him entering the twilight of his career. Soto is more troubling because I think we’re in the process of finding out that he’s just not the player we all hoped he would be.
Did we really put Jose Macias on the field? Really???
Well it seems the manager
And some of the players feel the team is heading in the right direction. The games have been getting closer and the team seems to feel better about that. At least that’s what I read in the paper this morning. Moral victories aren’t good!
All
the comments made most of them reflect my thoughts. Not much to add. I am still in Ricketts corner though. I find it hard to judge after just a short period of time.
Someone really put it best above. We are suffering from old high priced players. Decisions made four to five years ago.
Cubs 2011 70-92
I agree
It’s totally fine to point fingers at the current management. But I think the real root of the problem goes back to Sam Zell trying to maximize short term value of the team, resulting in contracts that should not have been made still crippling the team.
by TC Cubby on Jun 23, 2011 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes
Ricketts certainly has reviewed the strengths and weaknesses of his management staff. I for one believe that he will make changes at the correct time. Quade albeit has a weak team, has compounded this with his weak in game manager skills or there lack of.
Hendry has compounded this with the over the top long term deals with some players. I still think Hendry can stick around and change things. albeit that is waning. I am baffled with the selection fo Quade though. I am not sure if Hendry is on thin ice or not. He very well could be, and I would not be shocked if he was let go at seasons end.
So who in management is a positive for the Cubs? Is it Wilkens? Do they clean all but Wilkens and his staff? I still believe the president does not need to be a baseball guy. That is BS. But if you can find a baseball/business guy you might have something there. If not the GM should be enough of a baseball guy to run the baseball operations.
Cubs 2011 70-92
Was there a pitching change right when Fukey came up to bat?
I didn’t see any of the game except Kosey’s at-bat and I thought he came to the box and then there was a pitching change…? Pinch-hit for a righty, even if Fukey had a hit off Thorton in a previous game, the averages usually play out in baseball. Do we think he will go 2 for 2 against a top end lefty? I don’t. He probably strikes out the next 6 times he faces him.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
I know everyone wants Sandberg, but I seriously
think Trammel could have had this team contending more than they have been this year. I think a monkey could do a little better also.
I never liked Trammel when he stepped in for Lou.
This does not mean I don’t think he would be a great manager, or at least better then what we have, but he never impressed me. That said I was SHOCKED when Q got the interim call.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
unfortunately
management didnt put Quade in a position to succeed –
1. A team that needed EVERYTHING to go right to contend
2. A team that realistically needed TLR to contend
3. No experienced brain as bench coach
4. No experience at pitching coach
5. 2 extremely streaky hitters, a RF that traditionally cools off after April, a starting catcher that spends a month on the DL each year and a young, relatively unproven MI meant that every decision Quade made this year had to be the right one for the team to contend.
by hansman1982 on Jun 23, 2011 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
I think everyone, including Quade, knew and knows the situation...
Quade’s best shot has always been that the momentum from last year’s finish carried over and the team got a little luck in both the health and performance area. The reason he has the job at all is because they didn’t expect the 2011 team to blow minds. If they were a good roster with high expectations then there’d be a more experienced or at least more touted manager.
Not to kill them over moves not made (cough*Beltran*cough) but I still wish they hired Fredi Gonzalez over Lou in ’07. At the time he was considered a hotshot manager prospect who believed in the numbers behind the game and matchups…a modern manager basically…oh a modern manager that is a “baseball man,” my favorite BCB buzzword.
I agree with all 5 of those points.
3 & 4 seem to be what my father and I speak about everytime I call the guy. You have 3 Minor League coaches trying to develop a Major League squad. #1 is sooooo true, and we all know/knew it coming into this season. We are Cubs fans so why wouldn’t we at least believe that one time in 102 years EVERYTHING would go right.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
Am I the only one who sometimes thinks
that Bob Brenly’s analysis the last month or so has gone into as much of a lobbying mode as a color analyst mode? He launched into a fairly lengthy couple paragrahs I believe during a Yankee broadcast about end game use of the bench in the NL vs the AL and it sounded pretty critical of a move Quade had just made. Sorry I can’t be more specific—but I’m thinking it was durng the game on Saturday.
the guy made a ton of sense—maybe we could use him?
"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know. " Abraham Lincoln
I don't think He could use the Cubs. I've wanted BB in the dugout since after '09.
He took his name out last year, because he knew he was not buddy-buddy enough for JH. BB gets to watch games all summer long and has to answer NO questions about a severely under-performing Major League Baseball team, seems nice to me.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
I think
the last half of your 2nd sentance is the reason he withdrew…he didnt want to be tied in with this ballclub when he has a better option. Best to wait until the Cubs get rid of some of the dead weight and see if he can take over for Quade
by hansman1982 on Jun 23, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
honestly,
i think brenly is a bit of an idiot, strategy-wise. i like him as a color man, but even then he is being carried by kasper. not sure who the “right” manager would be— but i swear if the sox ever fire ozzie….
by doug dascenzo's change-up on Jun 24, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
When a bench coach subs in for a manager because the manager is unavailable for a game or two
It behooves him to do things exactly like the missing skipper would. You know the boss is watching and he’ll be back to tell you about everything he saw. If you deviate too much from his normal operations to try out something different (“Hill should lead off!”), you are not showing off creative thinking or a better way of doing things. Rather, you are destroying the trust the skipper has placed in you.
Any time Tram or Q stepped in for Lou, people were screaming for them to do something different than Lou would. Neither one did because they valued their jobs.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I was never expecting different approaches from the bench coach, because the reasons you have lined out.
He just never struck me as “manager”. My gut feelings are wrong a majority of the time, right now my gut says I’m hungry. It’s not lunch yet, gut, shut up down there! I liked Tram-dog a lot just not for manager.
Now if only Ryno were here… /sarcasm
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
I getcha now
So many here were screaming for Tram or Q to do things differently while Lou was occupied elsewhere that that sort of opinion never got through to my brain.
Tram got a raw deal in Detroit and that experience may have doomed him to never again be offered a MLB manager position. It may also have doomed him to never again seek one.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Agree completely.
Would not mind him as bench coach, and Listach down in AAA for this season.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
Quade has been poor to mediocre, but...
This still comes back to the offense. Here are some fun stats for the “Heart” of our lineup of Ramirez and Pena
1) Ramirez is 4-37 with RISP and 2 outs. That is a batting average of .108. He’s batting 37 times with a chance to drive in a run with 2 outs and has 4 rbi’s. That is pathetic. He’s hitting sub .250 with RISP
2) Pena is 4-24 with RISP and 2 outs, and he’s hitting .155 with RISP overall. That is also pathetic.
3) Soto is 3-25 with RISP and 2 outs, and he’s hitting .150 with RISP overall.
4) Soriano is hitting .226 with RISP
Quade can manage his proverbial arse off, but if any of you think he’s responsible for any of these pathetic numbers from guys who are making a lot of money to basically suck eggs when it matters most are delusional. These 4 guys have been a disgrace when it matters most, and to come through when it matters most is what they are paid to do.
Now some of you might say, well how high to batters really hit with RISP. Well, here you go
1) Lance Berkman .364 with RISP
2) Matt Holliday .392 with RISP
3) Yadier Molina .288 with RISP
4) Pujols .328 with RISP
by BeltwayCubsFan on Jun 23, 2011 9:26 AM CDT reply actions 5 recs
They're hitting like that because...
Quade doesn’t use them right. Or something.
Are you talking about the Cubs or the Cards?
Because I had that exact reaction to the Ramirez/Pena/Soto/Soriano numbers even before I saw the four Cardinals’ numbers. Holy Shit is a pretty good way to put it.
People’s rec buttons must be broken or something, because BeltwayCubsFan has completely nailed the difference between those two teams right now.
If anyone wants to stand up and explain why Quade is at fault for our guys’ numbers, or what LaRussa is doing differently to get that kind of prodution from his main guys, speak up, I’d love to hear about it.
/p.s. – where are all the Rudy Jaramillo posts on BCB? Better still, where is Rudy Jaramillo?
by Orval Overall on Jun 23, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
You said
People’s rec buttons must be broken or something
Is yours broken? His comment has no rec’s, meaning you didn’t rec him either. Just sayin.
Isn't Castro hitting over .350 with RISP?
He is doing the opposite of Ramirez I think, pure clutchiness. What is so strange about that is the fact that not very long ago Ramirez was known for being our clutchiest hitter. What the hell happened?
Beats me
He may just not be as good as he once was. Of course BAwRISP != clutchiness. Add in leverage and we may be getting closer.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
What is the actual formula for clutchiness?
If there isn’t one, someone needs to come up with that. Someone who is more into the ’metrics than I.
At first I read - Sandburg + X = dutch
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Like my grandmother?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Nobody's been able to come up with a good one yet
Attempts have been made, but all of them seem to have holes that can’t be patched. I’m not the guy to figure it out, though.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Complaining about a single play in a single game that the 2011 Cubs are playing is like
Robert E. Lee complaining about a musket misfire during Pickett’s charge.
Hindsight, as always, is 20/20.
I really wish I had this ability to predict the future that many have. I keep seeing things suggesting Quade should have somehow predicted a K because everybody saw it coming. Heck no, I fully expected him to put it in play, because he puts it in play 79.5% of the time. Seems to me 79.5% are prettttty good odds. If you suggest Geo should have pinch hit, he puts it in play only 73.8% and by the way, now has a lower BA than Koyie Hill. As far as a squeeze, I don’t think it would have been a bad call, but it’s called a suicide squeeze for a reason, it’s a risk. Stop acting like “why didn’t Quade go to the guaranteed 100% run producer?!” If any number of things go wrong, we’re run out of the inning, missed bunt, popped up, pitcher recognizes it and pitches out, and I can guarantee if the suicide squeeze goes awry, we’d be saying, “Why?? All Koyie had to do was put the ball in play?!”
We'll all miss you Ron.
by alkappy on Jun 23, 2011 9:33 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
I guess I'm psychic and didn't know it.
I was at the game and calling for a bunt. By the way, not a suicide bunt. Campana has enough speed to score on a bad bunt. When it was apparent he was swinging I told all the Sox fans around me that Hill was going to strike out. Not hindsight.
If you go to a safety squeeze
you pretty much negate the advantage you have of having a fact runner on third.
Agreed - Campana scores even on a bad safety squeeze
Unless it’s bunted directly back to the pitcher on one hop, Campana scores.
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
No way
Campana is fast, but on a safety squeeze, the runner does not start towards the plate until he sees that the ball is down. You have to make a good bunt for the runner to score.
If you could score on contact
on a safety squeeze, then there would be no such thing as a suicide squeeze.
I think SG is saying contact on a swing
Not on contact on a bunt, so in essence, agreeing with you.
We'll all miss you Ron.
Well, that isn't quite true either
a pop out, a line drive to an infielder or a hard hit ground ball right at somebody doesn’t get the run home.
I get what you're saying
but it’s so totally irrelevant because people were complaining about the play as the play was happening. All of you who keep crying about hindsight, or whatever bullshit, don’t get it. It’s not hindsight, it’s reiterating a frustration from the time of the play.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Well
it’s hard to get that message across when you’re trying to convey it to people who don’t even watch the f’n games, and would rather come here and be argumentative. But hey, if you dig that type of futile and pointless discourse, then this is the place for you.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
this is one of those things
that if it works (especially a bloop single just pas the infielders) its QIAFG - if it fails…we get 300 posts
300 = 517...and counting...
With the 1st pick in the 2012 Baseball Amateur Draft, the Chicago Cubs select...
300 is an accurate number
For an After Win average (299.97 through yesterday). After Loss average is 408.62.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
The headline about execution
reminds me of a story about former USC/Tampa Bay coach John McKay.
Following a Tampa Bay Buccaneers loss in one of their early seasons, McKay was asked what he thought of his team’s “execution.” He replied, “I’m all for it.”
Note that the CWS pitcher Crain had already thrown a pitchout in the Baker At Bat, as well as throwing one in the dirt. If you put on a suicide squeeze and he pitches out again or throws another one in the dirt, then you just lost your chance to tie the game right there.
Alkappy is right, the safer play there is to give Hill a chance to make contact and score the run that way.
by azjazzman on Jun 23, 2011 9:39 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I didn't watch much of this game.
And I had the option to. I’ve watched 99% of the Cubs games since 1996. That’s how tired I am of watching horrible decision making.
After reading the recap, it sounds like the same story, but different game.
R.I.P. to my grandfather, Andrew Wiley
The reason I am a Cub fan forever
That's because things have only been seen one way this year...
a series of bad decisions. Few seem willing to move past that, or at least deeper than that. See Alkappy’s analysis of why calling for a squeeze would be a dumb idea. He applies context to the situation, I as someone who didn’t see the game have more information and facts than “he should have squeezed,” and now I’m even more confident in my disagreement. Counting on Koyie Hill to do anything but be a backup catcher seems like suddenly giving him more credit that he’s ever gotten or earned here.
But, ultimately
that isn’t a whole lot different than asking Hill to make contact swinging.
Most managers in that situation will give the batter one shot at swinging away and then put on the safety squeeze. You also prefer to have a favorable count. The Sox pitcher had pretty electric stuff and there is no guarantee you are going to get a strike to bunt.
There are no guarantees but it is easier to bunt than hit with a full swing.
The percentages favor bunting in that situation.
You keep saying that, why though?
Hill makes contact 80% of the time, how often is he asked to bunt? I think you let him swing and make contact there every single time.
You can’t risk a bunt because they were looking for it.
That is dumb...He is a good bunter and we have one of the fastest players in the majors on third...
As far as Hill making contact…He had struckout 2 times already and made it three.
It's not dumb because they were looking for a bunt...
pitches in the dirt and pitch outs.
For a catcher in a tie game??
Then watch Soto get hurt in extras and everyone screams for Quade’s head again. You rarely if ever see managers pinch hit for a catcher in a tie game late in the game.
The odds of Soto getting hurt
were infinitesimal.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Hill isn't really a good bunter
That aside, Hill’s first swing wasn’t one that a contact hitter would use. This year Hill has a .000 BA with RISP. He shouldn’t have even been in the box.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
But the problem is
you have to get the bunt down on one pitch, whereas you have the whole at bat to make contact with a full swing.
Actually, the percentages do NOT favor a squeeze in that situation, because the opponent is expecting it. As I already said, Ozzie called a pitch out with a man on second in the previous At Bat, so why wouldn’t you expect he would pitch out in a situation where a squeeze play might be called?
As somebody else posted, if Quade puts the squeeze on and Ozzie pitches out, then this whole thread would be about how dumb it is to call a squeeze play when the other team is expecting it.
With a runner on third, one out in a one run ballgame the odds of getting...
…decent pitch are pretty good, if not he could have at least worked the count to his favor and forced a pitch to squeeze on, not the easiest thing to do but Hill was just hacking away in that AB.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 23, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
BTW
on a safety squeeze, the runner does not go on contact, he goes when the bunt goes down, which is MUCH different. If he goes on contact and the ball is bunted in the air, he probably gets doubled up.
These discussions are the beauty of baseball above other sports
Most people can watch these games and never realize that not calling a safety squeeze or plays like a SS not having his foot on the bag at 2nd back in the 5th inning or a ball being thrown to the wrong base in the 3rd inning made the winning or losing difference in a game.
This game is so subtle—if someone fumbles on the goal line or a DB blows a coverage—you know that’s what did it. In this game missing a cutoff man frequently goes unnoticed. There’s no other sport like it and that’s why we get these little broo haha discussions going.
"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know. " Abraham Lincoln
This is why
I always look askance at anyone who says “baseball is boring”. Baseball is the most strategic game imaginable and there are so many games within the game.
You say..
Counting on Koyie Hill to do anything but be a backup catcher seems like suddenly giving him more credit that he’s ever gotten or earned here.
He’s a major leaguer SG. He should be able to lay down a bunt. Mike Quade who you defend on a regular basis, said that he felt that Hill could make contact. So is he expecting too much from Koyie Hill also?
I just don’t understand your arguement. But it seems like trying to find an argument is something you are good at.
R.I.P. to my grandfather, Andrew Wiley
The reason I am a Cub fan forever
It isn't so much a question of whether Hill
can lay down a bunt, it is how likely in that spot is he to get a pitch to bunt?
Are you saying he won't throw strikes?
That’s even better. Then Hill walks and you have a better bunter up next in Fukudome.
That isn't what I am saying
What I am saying is that you have to pick a pitch to squeeze on, and if that particular pitch is not buntable (pitch out, in the dirt, etc), then you just pissed away your chance to tie up the game.
Expecting contact from a hitter that makes contact ~80% of the time isn't ridiculous...
The fact that Quade felt Hill would be able to pull off making contact kind of eliminates the whole bunt thing then, no? ANY contact would have scored Campana. A K is what we got.
What is his contact rate on bunts?
If it is higher than 80%, then he should have bunted.
How many bunts has he actually had to put down at the ML level?
I know us fans from our comfy arm chairs think that bunting must be easier than hitting because hell it looks that way and the ball doesn’t have to go far, but there are very few guys who are actually good bunters and do it often.
He dropped a BEAUTY of a squeeze already this year, I mean BEAUTY.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
It's one thing to execute a squeeze
when you have the element of surprise going for you, it is quite another to do it when everybody in the house in expecting it.
Isn't that baseball?
I mean certain times in the game, each at-bat for that matter, that you can assume what a majority of managers are going to do. I mean Pat & Keith are always discussing “the runner should be going here”, execution does play a major role in such cases. Did Koyie strike out on 3 pitch-outs? 3 balls in the dirt? (I really don’t know, I did not see the at-bat)
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
Baseball is a game of percentages
and there is generally a risk/reward attached to most decisions.
When Pat & Keith say “the runner should be going here”, what they are saying is that the reward of gaining an extra base far outweighs the risk that he would get thrown out in that particular situation.
I’m not saying that I wouldn’t have called a squeeze in that situation, I am just saying that Quade’s decision there is not the slam dunk that some seem to think it is.
Can you now see that your argument is the same line of rationale as the others?
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
Not at all
the rhetoric that Quade somehow “blew it” but not calling for a squeeze is just wrong-headed.
It is a decision, just like dozens of other decisions that are made during the course of a ball game.
As I have shown, there is ample support for making the decision that Quade made. The fact that it didn’t work out the way Cubs fans wanted doesn’t make it a bad decision. The squeeze play could’ve been botched.
Also keep in mind that normally you play for the tie at home, but on the road you play to get the lead.
Your sentiment that the squeeze could've been botched
is shared by the others saying, if you want him to make contact by swinging it could be botched in the form of a strikeout. Now with that statement I’m making an ASS out of U and ME, by thinking they are saying this at the time and not in hindsight.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
The Cubs were behind, so the last sentence of your post is irrelevant.
Hill is a good bunter. Campana is a good baserunner and fast. It’s not a slam dunk, but Hill had already struck out twice last night and is facing a good pitcher in Crain. I’d have tried the suicide squeeze.
What’s the worst that could have happened? It fails and the Cubs lose? They lost anyway. At least they could have tried something.
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They tried a contact play and failed... it's not like they tried nothing.
That play was LITERALLY 6 of one half dozen of the other whether they swung or bunted. With Crain having already thrown some pitches in the dirt and a pitch out, bunting wasn’t worth the risk, IMO.
The worst that could happen
is that the suicide squeeze is unsuccessful and then Fukudome follows with a base hit, and then gets stranded.
After all, ’Dome was 3 for his last 5 against the Sox.
I've seen Fukudome bat hundreds of times.
He really didn’t have much of a shot at hitting Thornton in that situation.
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Not many lefties do.
Not just Fukudome.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Right.
Which is why he should have PH Montanez, or even LeMahieu, since LeMahieu was going to have to come in the game anyway.
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And when you're going to have to pinch hit anyway anyway...
it makes even more sense to pinch hit for Hill and take the risk of some fluke injury happening to Soto. If the Cubs score that run, then they don’t have to worry about what Fukudome does against Thornton (if Guillen bothers to bring him in after the run scores).
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Gotta respond to this
“What’s the worst that could have happened? It fails and the Cubs lose? They lost anyway.”
If Quade were using this type of logic to make in game decisions, then he would deserve to be fired.
Imagine if he puts on the squeeze and it fails. Then in his post game media Q&A somebody asks him why he chose to use the squeeze and he replies “Well, I figured we were going to lose anyway, so why not try something?”
No, of course he's not going to say that.
He’d say something like, “I wanted to make things happen. Koyie’s a good bunter; the play just didn’t work.”
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But you are suggesting
that he should have used that line of thinking, which is just wrong, no matter what he does or doesn’t say.
When a manager starts making decisions based on the fact that he is expecting his players to fail is when he erodes everyone’s confidence and loses the team’s respect altogether.
I'd much rather prefer a "go for broke" strategy
than hoping the team comes through in spots where they’re just not likely to succeed anyway with standard strategy. What’s that doing for the team’s morale?
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
No, he'd be doing it because...
… Hill is a good bunter and he’d be expecting him to succeed at something he does well.
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Hill is not a good bunter
His stats prove that.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
I don't want to put too...
fine a point on it; it’s one bad inning of a bad game in a bad season. But Koyie is actually a competent bunter. The safety squeeze would have been perfectly acceptable here, especially as the speed of the runner at 3rd would have allowed him to wait and still likely score.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 23, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes...
Campana’s well above average speed negates the disadvantages of the safety squeeze.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I do think
a safety squeeze would have been a better call than a suicide, but I would’ve given Hill one shot to hit the ball somewhere, then if he didn’t, then put on the safety squeeze. But, in a 0-1 or 1-1 count, if Hill doesn’t get the bunt down, then I take it off and let him swing away, because I don’t want him to foul off a two strike bunt.
I know Hill has shown to be a good bunter in the past, but believe me, getting down a bunt when the ball is moving the way Cain’s was is not as easy as you think. If Hill couldn’t get one in play with a full swing, the odds are he would have a tough time getting a bunt down as well.
I don't think it's easy at all.
I think it sucks that we’re so desperate for runs that we’re spending so much time contemplating such a situation involving the weakest hitting player on the Cubs roster. I usually don’t advocate suicide squeezes, and I like safety squeezes even less (I shouldn’t have said negated… I should have said somewhat negated). Personally, I wanted to pinch hit for him and take the risks with something happening to Soto.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Losing one run ball games
invites rehash and questioning of moves. But, it is more interesting than getting blown out regularly, trust me.
PH’ing Soto there certainly would have been an interesting option. The problem is that Soto had struck out 3 times in the previous game. And you lose the lefty vs RHP matchup that you have with Hill.
I do agree with one thing though…I think the rule that you never use your 2nd catcher in a game is overdone sometimes.
I generally agree with the "rule"...
but when you’re fighting for every run you can get, sometimes you have to break a couple rules.
I don’t necessarily think you have to PH with Soto there, but I didn’t actually know who the team had available to PH at the time.
Crain’s splits are severe at all, so you’re not losing much with putting in a RH vs Hill, who’s basically useless either way.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
In that situation
it’s not really about splits. You are just looking for a fly ball.
What I would do is look down the bench and see who I have that I think has the best chance of putting a ball in play and not striking out or popping up.
Batters overall are hitting like .130 agains Crain, so it was going to be a challenge under the best of circumstances, but there’s no doubt going with more of a contact hitter there increases your chances.
Oh, I know that...
but you brought up that the Cubs would lose the lefty matchup by pinch-hitting for Hill.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
But I don't mean
the lefty matchup in terms of hits, I mean in terms of putting a ball in play.
Left handed hitters strike out much less against right handed pitchers than right handed hitters do. You see the ball better and have a better chance of putting bat to ball. Not in terms of getting a hit, but just in terms of making contact.
The actual stats
LHB vs RHB K rate 18.4%
RHB vs RHB K rate 19.1%
That’s hardly much less.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Can someone provide any evidence he's a good bunter?
He isn’t and 9 SH in 862 PAs attest to that.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Agree with Unique
I know for sure I’ve seen rosters with less talent in the last ~ 50 years, but I don’t remember one that I’ve been so fed up with—almost to the point of being ashamed.
"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know. " Abraham Lincoln
I have nothing against Quade
but he really manages like he’s still in the minors. There, you want to see how guys will do in certain situations to gauge their development. Winning the game is a bonus.
In the bigs, you are PAID to win.
His in-game managing at this level leaves a lot to be desired and could ultimately cost him his job if he doesn’t start ‘getting’ that there is a BIG difference.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
You forgot to type the ending to your sentence:
“With a different organization.”
"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo
Quade is the wrong guy, Hendry for sure
Doesn’t everybody know by now that last years September run was Trammell and Rothschild. I still can’t believe we’d let Hendry make trade deadline decisions when we might have a chance to improve the team for next year.
Yeah, we should've called Batman and have him stop Hendry the Malevolent.
"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo
Quote of the night from Bob Brenly
~Take advantage of confusion… Roger Craig always preached it.
He said this after Ozzie ran the squeeze, while the Cubs heads were still wondering what happened on AJ’s triple.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Great point by Brenly, a lot of confusion could have been made on the basebaths...
…by Campana last night and I wouldn’t have second guessed the decision to have him steal 3rd with no one out. The odds of AJ throwing him out were slim to none, Quade just doesn’t seem to know how to take advantage of those types of situations.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 23, 2011 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
I can't wait for Quade to make some
Two Words: Salty Saltwell
by Unclemike on Jun 23, 2011 10:40 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I can't wait for Quade to make some
…weird comments about the Royals’ ballpark. e.g the waterfalls…
Two Words: Salty Saltwell
by Unclemike on Jun 23, 2011 10:41 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
He might start quoting TLC.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 23, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't go staring at waterfalls
Keep swinging at the first pitch like your used to
My bad...
I really hate iPhone qwerty keyboards
Two Words: Salty Saltwell
by Unclemike on Jun 23, 2011 10:42 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Uh oh... JH pulled out his scouts...
General manager Jim Hendry and assistant GM Randy Bush will preside over the two days of meetings. Hendry’s objective will be to give the scouts direction as the team looks to acquire new players or move some off the present 25-man roster.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
Like I said...
Today was destined to be that time for the long, hard look. Release the Kracken!
by Damen Jackson on Jun 23, 2011 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Has TR shown any evidence
that he is capable of evaluating his front office? Old axiom. Don’t send a boy to do a man’s work.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
The Kraken
is due another 60M+ over the next three or four years, too much for the Cubs to eat.
Oh wait, wrong release.
Weekend contributor at Windy City Gridiron
by Steven Schweickert on Jun 23, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
"The game plan will include going after top prospects and young players from other teams."
Let the youth movement begin…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
More important quote from the article
Hendry will talk to his top scouts about which teams the Cubs might match up with best as far as trades. The Cubs have a number of players with big contracts that not all teams could or would absorb.
Maybe you want to make deals. But you still have to find a willing partner.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
And if it becomes more of a goal to salary dump the odds of getting top prospects..
…in return are slim. The Cubs are going to have to think outside the box, if they want top prospects than nobody except for Castro should be safe.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 23, 2011 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Not necessarily.
If they want good prospects in return, then they will have to kick in cash and absorb most, if not all, of the contracts themselves. It’s basically buying prospects.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I was intrigued about
the comment regarding shoulder-tapping Ricketts on salary dumps. That interesting to me. I wonder why he’d need to be consulted on sunk costs that are already budgeted.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 23, 2011 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Nevermind...
I think I figured it out.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 23, 2011 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
The Cubs are like a 500lb guy on Match.com
They’re trying real hard to look appealing, but at the end of the day, you’ll probably have to pay for it.
This is down right sickening...
Zambrano has $27 million left on his deal, which runs through 2012. Ramirez has $7.5 million left this season, as well as a $2 million buyout and a $1 million bonus he receives if he’s traded.
Soriano has about $65 million remaining on his contract, which runs through 2014. Fukudome is in the last year of his contract and has a shade over $7 million left.
Remember the scene in “The Untouchables” when Capone (DeNiro) was presiding over a meeting at a table and walking around with a ball bat? Then clubbed some unsuspecting guy over the head? Ricketts could learn an awful lot from that scene.
With the 1st pick in the 2012 Baseball Amateur Draft, the Chicago Cubs select...
Hey, look at that, we lost
what a shock. I don’t know though, I don’t think I can bother myself to even give that much of a crap about these in game blunders anymore. Nothing is going to change this year, and the way Quade runs this team will be the same way he runs it in September. Then October will come, we’ll all be hopefull for change, and maybe we’ll get it, maybe we won’t.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 11:21 AM CDT reply actions
It's happy hour SOME where, let's go grab a beer.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
We need something harder than beer
Like whiskey…or heroin.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
They played possibly the best live show I've ever seen
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I can't click on it here
Who is it?
(Crosses fingers that it’s Odd Future)
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Morphine
And one of my favorite tracks, too – “Buena”. It’s no “Super Sex” or “Thursday”, but it ranks right up there.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Oh, nice
That reminds me, I need to finish moving all of my tracks to Amazon’s cloud.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm copying mine up to Google Music
But the app has rejected about three tracks for every one it’s uploaded. Gonna be a long process.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I think the Sones said it best:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kqGcBIkM4I
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
LOL. I thought I had just been introduced to a new bnd, The Sones.
Still love the song.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
ooops. where's the darn 't'?
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
Right where you left it
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I've already begun the process with Amazon
and what I like about their stuff is that any other music you purchase from their awesomely cheap music service goes right to the cloud as well, or to your device.
What actually interests me the most is iTunes new service where they replace your shittier quality tracks with higher quality ones. That’s only viable though if you can actually download those. If they just sit in the cloud, or in a cache file, then what’s the point.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm looking at it as a last resort
If I lose my local copies, those will still be accessible. Downloading them again is not strictly a requirement for my use case. An iPhone app wouldn’t suck, but I’m not holding my breath for that.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I was going to post "Cure for Pain" thinking it would've been perfect.
But I’m an optimist, so “buena” works for me.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
Really wish I could've seen 'em. They are absolutely the cure for my blues, by seemingly putting meaning to it.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
Well
it’s definitely not OFWGKTA then
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
It was outstanding
Small venue (room capacity was probably ~500) and they were just riveting. It was the last show on a festival Saturday, which is usually a recipe for tired drunks splitting just because they’re tuckered out. I don’t think the front door opened once from the time they started ’til the collective haze started to wear off 10 minutes after it was over.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Sounds like the perfect show. Love those where you just can't leave or you feel you're going to miss something life changing.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
I may be strange, but all of the Ricketts and Quade bashing is getting on my nerves.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
by eths on Jun 23, 2011 11:25 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
It's not a question of defending them, but more a question of repetition of pertinacious enmity.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
by eths on Jun 23, 2011 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
The repetition is because almost every other game Quade is showing us new...
…ways to lose ballgames.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 23, 2011 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
The players show that, not Quade.
That is the assumption people here seem to make, but it’s simply wrong. Quade is not the reason we’re 14 games below .500.
It's been proven managers account for about 1-2 wins or losses per season.
Quade is not the outlier on those findings, regardless of how dumb he can look at times.
Its been worse than that....
You can see before it happens how things are going to blow up in the Cubs faces….
The manager has a big part in that
There are proven theories that discount what you're saying/seeing
Unless you can combat it with factual information, it’s just what you think. I’ll take the studies any day, thank you.
Nine of ten dentists recommend...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
It's not been proven
It’s been alleged.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Quade is now responsible for at least 5 losses. That is NOT supposed to...
…happen in MLB. Managers in game should almost be inert, a tweak here a tweak there and try not to do anything stupid.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 23, 2011 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
It's a pretty large leap
from “I think Quade should’ve called for a squeeze in the 8th” to “not calling for a squeeze cost us the ball game”.
The blame game is fine if it makes you feel better, but the real world is a little more complicated than that.
by azjazzman on Jun 23, 2011 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well said.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
He screwed up 3 times in the inning....
DeWitt should not have batted vs the LHP…….He got away with that one because DeWitts roller went into the OF….lucked out…..
Hill should have been bunting or PH for…..
Dome should have been PH for…..
He lucked out once and got burnt twice…..
I'm sorry but the game at that point in time was in HIS (Quades) hands.
And he dropped the ball. Did his decision making in the 8th inning prevent them from tying the game? Yes.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 23, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Prevent? No! ... Make less likely? Possibly.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
What is a managers #1 responsibility?
To put his team in the best possible position to win a ballgame. Quade didn’t do that last night. Therefore that loss is on him.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
And the real world
suggests that pretending Quade is a capable big league manager with little impact on games is rationalization.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
per·ti·na·cious
/ˌpərtnˈāSHəs/
Adjective: Holding firmly to an opinion or a course of action
en·mi·ty
/ˈenmitē/
Noun: The state or feeling of being actively opposed or hostile to someone or something.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
I love continuing education.
eths, I’m still on your bandwagon :)
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
I find the number of replies resulting from my simple grouse slightly boggling.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
It is strange.
People are strange when you’re a… never-mind.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
A Stranger in a Strange Land?
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Boggle?

Weekend contributor at Windy City Gridiron
by Steven Schweickert on Jun 23, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
one would say
that the Kool-Aid Party is upset that the Pitchforks Party keeps saying that they are being unreasonable about their comments that the Pitchforks Party is unreasonable…
Otherwise I share you setiment and usually steer clear of the pre and post game discussions and even most game threads now-a-days
or as eths might say
we’re all lugubrious.
by Orval Overall on Jun 23, 2011 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I try not to be.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
one would say
that the Kool-Aid Party is upset that the Pitchforks Party keeps saying that they are being unreasonable about their comments that the Pitchforks Party is unreasonable…
Otherwise I share you setiment and usually steer clear of the pre and post game discussions and even most game threads now-a-days
Well said.....bravo
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Serious question...
I don’t feel the need, or even agree with everyone here, regarding bashing Ricketts or Quade for every single move they make. Yet I understand this team sucks, Quade isn’t the best manager in baseball (or even close) and Hendry needs to leave the FO.
Does that make me a Kool Aid drinker or simply more of a realist? I’m not quite the torch and pitchfork guy you seem to be.
A realist would see this team sucks and needs changes top to bottom and we have an owner who will not do anything about it.
I see all of those but the last
Because it’s still to early to rip him for inaction.
I'm a realist...I know this is a BAD team...I think we ALL know that...
as a matter of fact, I believe we ALL knew that prior to pitch #1 on Opening Day. Yes, there needs to be changes made at the top. I’m still willing to give Ricketts enough rope to allow this season to play out. However…there is NO excuse to be made if the same people that are steering this ship continue steering it next year.
With the 1st pick in the 2012 Baseball Amateur Draft, the Chicago Cubs select...
That applies to you and Gato and few others only....
The normal posters who see reality can form their own thoughts
I know
I don’t agree with you, therefore I drink kool aid, therefore my opinion doesn’t count.
We'll all miss you Ron.
It's a fair question
and I think the answer lies here. Before the season, it was pretty much conceded by everyone on BCB that the Cubs would not contend this year.
So, expectations were pretty low. Therefore, I don’t think being 14 games below .500 is that far below expectations, by the time you factor in the injuries, etc.
The conventional wisdom is that this would be a year that the organization needed to endure while waiting for some contracts to expire, to give prospects some time to develop and to see how the in-season trade market develops.
So, it looks like that is how things are playing out. I’m having a tough time understanding the logic behind the calls to clean house, when things are going pretty much as expected. Certainly as it relates to Quade, who has the unfortunate duty of being the manager of a team in transition.
If you want to fire Hendry for past decisions, fine, but that only makes sense if you can bring in someone with a track record of overseeing a successful rebuilding effort. I don’t know who that would be.
So, no, I don’t think you are a Kool Aid drinker just because you aren’t a torch and pitchfork guy. I don’t see why you have to be one extreme or the other.
I think those calling for a house cleaning are reactionary and their action plan would create more harm than good. Why not let things play out during this transition before making sweeping changes?
by azjazzman on Jun 23, 2011 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
This makes a lot of sense.
Let’s see what happens the rest of the year.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
by Al Yellon on Jun 23, 2011 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
And I must add that I do think Hendry has to go, and probably Quade too. We can all see thier glaring colossal failures, but yet your post is level headed and rational and does make very good sense as this year is concerned. The bashing of the Ricketts though should at least wait a few years until he has the chance to fix this.
To me
there are only a few reasons to fire a GM.
One would be if you disagree with his overall plan. Another would be if you let him execute his plan and it turns out to be the wrong plan.
After 2006, Hendry had to turn things around quickly, and he did. You can argue that the method he used to turn things around is in some part responsible for the situation today.
But, I would counter that in 2007, it was well understood that the window was closing on the core of the 2003 team ever winning a pennant, so going the “quick fix” route made sense.
But, the downside is what you have now. The only thing is, you would be looking at a rebuilding project anyway in 2011, so why not go for it in 2007-08?
Looking from the outside, I think I can see the plan that Hendry has. And I think it is the correct one. Now, it is how successful he is in executing that plan that ultimately will determine his future.
And it really doesn’t matter much if the Cubs finish 10 games, 20 games or 30 games out this year. The overall rebuilding plan remains the same.
You can't say Hendry's plan was to rebuild...
after the Garza trade. If this is a rebuilding year, that was a colossal error.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought the Garza trade
and the Pena signing to some extent were pandering to the fan base.
But, then again, you have to look at Garza in concert with the Lilly trade last year. They essentially turned Lilly into Garza, with some prospects going both ways. If you look at it that way, it could be construed as part of a rebuilding effort.
Unfortunately...
the prospects they gave up to Tampa, were far superior to the prospects they got from the Dodgers, including DeWitt. The Cubs gave up two of their best, plus others, and didn’t get anywhere near that from the Dodgers. It would be different if Wallach and Smit were at a more advanced level, but we can’t even say that. In a different year, I wouldn’t have objected to the Garza trade, but this is a trade that should have happened in another year. There would have been another Garza. There’s always another Garza out there.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
if you think that
Lilly = Garza in terms of pitching then Lilly < Garza because Garza is young and still has time to grow. In terms of what we gave up we have 1 pitcher who had 1 great season and a SS that is possibly going to see playing time next year at the earliest.
You do understand that Matt Garza is turning 28 this winter, right?
So what we’re seeing is the zenith of what we’re going to get. And we’re wasting two years of it (and the assets, including money, to acquire and retain him) on years that are going nowhere fast. Even if you don’t want to give up on next year (which I think the Cubs should if they ever expect to see a World Series again), the Cubs still wasted 1 year… and that’s 1 too many. I have no problem with Matt Garza, but I don’t like waste… I don’t like basically doing a favor for Tampa Bay (they help themselves out plenty)… I don’t like how much they gave up for him, when they gave it up for him. That’s just the reality of the trade. It wasn’t necessary.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Unless you think
that Garza ages 30-35 is going to be better than the Garza you acquired or the talent you gave up. Ideally we would have gotten an age 25 guy who had the track record Garza does.
At the end of the day the liklihood that BOTH Archer and Lee are going to be perenial all-stars are slim to none (especially since Archer has regressed back to the pre-2009 Archer in the Southern League). I agree on paper the trade was lopsided, check back in 3-4 years.
Just stop...
this wasn’t a Lilly for Garza trade. I’m not making that point. The two are independent of each other. I’m not worried about Garza’s 30-35 seasons because that’s minimum 3 years from now. There’s no guarantee he’ll be a Cub then… or we’ll want him to be a Cub then.
Archer’s done worse… Lee’s done better. Fuld has contributed to their big-league team. Guyer even made his debut already.
In a year where I expected the Cubs to contend, I’m ok with all of this. I’m ok with making a lopsided trade. Sometimes, that’s what is necessary to push your team over the top.
Like I’ve said hundreds of times, I don’t mind the trade… I mind the timing.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
It's funny what you call "contributing to their big league team"
Or “made his debut.” Those two are filler and nothing more. Archer has regressed terribly and Lee will be the only one we may regret losing.
It’s not nearly as lopsided as you claim it to be, especially since we don’t know Garza’s future after 2014.
Does anybody (maybe Josh)
know anything about how the guy the Cubs got from the Dodgers is doing?
At the same time the Cubs made the Lilly trade last year, the D’Backs traded Dan Haren for Joe Saunders in a salary dump.
Most people would say that was a terrible trade on the face of it. But, the D’Backs got two lower level pitching prospects in the deal and both are doing very well this year. So, sometimes it takes some time to determine whether a deal was a good one or not.
Well, we know how DeWitt is doing...
the other guys are Kyle Smit and Brett Wallach.
Smit is in AA and not doing much. Wallach is in High A ball and he’s doing better than he did last year, but still not great. Neither of them are young for their level.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
BTW...
I liked the Pena signing. Nothing wrong with that. They had the money in the budget, nothing else to spend it on and a gaping hole at 1B. I have no problem with Carlos Pena. They’ll have the same gaping hole at 1B at the end of the season, too.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
The only problem I have with it
only becomes an issue if Pena has a strong season. I don’t know if the Cubs have a 1st base prospect in the system, but if, say, Pena has his usual 30 HR, .220 season, then there will be all sorts of pressure to bring him back next year (and beyond) and he will be 34 next year with his best years behind him.
That would be okay if you could sign him to another 1 year deal, but that isn’t going to happen.
I can't even pretend...
to predict what the Cubs will actually do. I hope they wouldn’t go more than 1 year for him, but it doesn’t mean that 1 year would be all that bad, since there’s no given they can offer enough money to get Pujols or Fielder to come here… and there are no good 1Bs in the system. Even if Vogelbach signs AND becomes more than a DH with a glove, he’s 4 years away.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not what the Cubs will do
it is what Garza and his agent want. They made it very clear when they signed with the Cubs that they expected to put up good numbers at Wrigley this year and that it would lead to a multiyear contract starting 2012.
So, there are only two possible outcomes here…either he has a bad year and the Cubs don’t want him back, or he has a big year and someone else signs him for three years.
There is no realistic scenario that has him signing another 1 year deal with the Cubs.
A mediocre season...
which is what he’s putting up could bring that, but I’m not expecting it. I’m not going to fret over losing Pena, if his demands include a multi-year contract. I’m certainly glad they didn’t go the LaRoche or Dunn route, but there might be another guy like that out there, and if Hendry’s still here, you never know…
(And I know you meant Pena, not Garza).
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
pandering... You may well be correct about this.
I think the Cubs management is attempting to balance on a fine line of keeping losses low and therefore attendance high, and at the same time going through a rebuilding process. If they are being or are going to be very successful is another question all together.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
I think that hendry and ricketts and whatever role kenney holds
realized that the cubs fans wont accept a true rebuild, getting garza was not rebuilding but it was a piece in the future of the team that they had to get, and it would help them possibly be relevant this year…
I’d be very interested to see what happens if Hendry is offered an extension after next year and the cubs put a winner on the table, maybe not a WS, though I hope for one, but at least playff bound for a couple of years
it can certaintly be a part
of a rebuilding effort…for a team like the Cubs a rebuilding effort doesnt mean promote everyone in the minors and grab a couple over-the-hill types.
Apaprently the Cubs feel that Garza is a future #1 starter and if that is the case you nab them when they are a little cheaper, not when they are a #1 starter…
If the Cubs didnt want to rebuild then they would have pursued Cliff Lee with all of their might
He was already an asset his team had no intention of keeping.
In fact, they improved their team by replacing Garza with a cheaper alternative he was keeping out of the rotation.
There was no reason for desperately acquiring Garza. There’s always another Garza.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Did you miss the part where I said "his team"
meaning Tampa Bay. The Cubs didn’t get him when he was “a little cheaper”. They paid full price for him, when his team had no intention of keeping him for half that price.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
The Rays got fair value from the Cubs...
Just like they would have from another team if he wasn’t traded here. It’s dumb to assume that because the Rays had another alternative they HAD to trade Garza and that teams were lining up to get him at half price. That’s simply not how it works… EVER.
Garza also has a FIP of 2.88 and an xFIP of 2.90. I’d love to find cost controlled starters with numbers like that since they’re always available. Please, I’ll settle for 3 other pitchers under 28 who are putting up those numbers this year that are attainable.
ok
then they would have gotten their price elsewhere…or we could have hoped he hit FA last winter and had to fight over him anyway. In baseball you have to pay for talent, in the Cubs case they turned Archer and Lee into a few million in reduced salary…I will eat my words if either of those two turn into anything but I am guessing they wont.
You put this as well as I ever could have, and made my point perfectly.
For everyone walking into this year expecting so little, there is a massive amount of outrage for the expected (for the most part) outcome.
Exactly...
We pretty much new this was a “watching the Titanic sink” kinda year.
You're not deep, You're not an intellectual,
You're not an artist, You're not a critic,
You're not a poet... You just have internet access.
=========
I didn't climb to the top of the food chain to eat lettuce...
Time and again we're told to be patient
Now isn’t the time. Who is the replacement? Trust us. If a businessman were to go into a fiscal year knowing his team is poorly prepared to compete and he kept the same people who had gotten the team into that position, would he be wise to continue to employ those people?
Ricketts has shown no evidence he is capable of making fruitful decisions about his organizational staff. Just how long should stockholders (customers) be forced to wait for improvement. If everyone knew we were poorly prepared this year, why hasn’t the organization allowed prospects to play? And who can believe that the people who caused the problems should be trusted with the expertise to cure the malaise that permeates this organization?
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
I never drank Kool Aid when I was a kid, because my mom always bought the off brand stuff
I think it was called Flavor Aid. Good stuff.
People are strange, when you're a stranger.
I just want a competitive team to finish out the season (notice I said competitive not #winning) and it’s slowly showing. I want my brother-in-law (Cards fan) to be able to legitimately ridicule my fandom, not feel bad for me.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
Losing is losing, I don't care in what fashion it's done in.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 23, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
'82...again losing is losing and I've seen all incarnations of it since 1982.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 23, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree losing = losing. Come on we are an awful team, we took 3 of 4 from the BrewCrew.
You want to much with this PARTICULAR team (2011 version), they are not going to pull this one out. But sheesh man, get a grip.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
I completely understand the bashing
and I think it may be time to start conveying the message somewhere else, maybe even in a different medium. There has to be someone to contact in that Cubs front office, whether if it’s email or mail. Send enough letters or messages and someone has to pay attention at some point.
Or not, what the hell do I know. Maybe we pool our money together to have someone write a message in the air during a game.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
I understand the frustration too, but still, I am slowly finding the bashing grating.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Why?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
To quote some old guy
look, what do you want me to say?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd say that makes you and me, among others, a nice chunk of parmesean or cheddar...
![]()
Weekend contributor at Windy City Gridiron
by Steven Schweickert on Jun 23, 2011 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
...and ready for a meltdown?
![]()
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
It feels to me like the discussion has become so repetitive and circular that it has reached inanity.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
That is sadly almost true.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Thus the irritation.......
We get on the same people because they keep pulling the same stuff day after day after day.
When/if Ricketts ever makes a move, it will give him more credibility…unless he does something stupid like say give the team back to Lynch…..LOL
Credibility in Ricketts position comes with doing something credible.
and we’re still waiting.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 23, 2011 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
or he realizes
that baseball is not a kneejerk reaction sport…a plan is in place and as long as it is going according to that plan then no reason to start flailing about firing everything that moves
by hansman1982 on Jun 23, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree...
The commentary here is starting to offer as much new material as a lot of the ESPN articles people are ripping as well.
Gee I wonder why everyone is piling on...Because they are not a good organization and are run like a joke?
I'm just sayin
posts like this don’t help, so why incite an argument or fight?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh, I know
I’m just going to continuously ask that whenever he, or Gato, or anyone else pulls that card.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
With all due respect...
I have asked multiple serious questions to TJ and had nothing but BS answers and responses, as per his usual, in response.
It is QUITE clear through my posts I am not a Kool Aid drinker, nor was I ever to start the year. I am, however, not a torch and pitchfork guy. I’m asking relevant questions and getting crap back, so I’m offering as much to the conversation in my post that you felt the need to respond to as he does in almost ANY post he makes.
Posts like TJs upset me because I know he is an intelligent baseball fan and has a lot to offer to the board if he actually cared to. I’m not asking him to turn around and support the team, but to fumble around as he does only lessens what he can offer and turns a lot of people off to his posts even when he has something relevant and interesting to say.
I also don’t understand why you feel the need to jump on any of these posts either, but that seems to be a bit of your MO as well. I don’t know enough about your posting habits or style to say one way or the other, but forming cliques and jumping on posters that you don’t understand or agree with isn’t the best way for you to help offer something to BCB. My 2 cents…
by bdlugz on Jun 23, 2011 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, if his posts bother you so much
then why do respond to him in a way that trolls a response out of him?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Every post trolls a response out of him.
I still believe in some way that value in = value out. I know he’s capable of it, I’ve seen it before. Call me naive, but I think he has something to offer. I’m patient and can wait for it.
Yes, TJ does
but if you don’t want to see an argument, and if you especially don’t want to see the type of posts from him that bother you, then, I mean, you get where I’m going with this, right?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
And I don't mean to argue with you or anything
but I don’t feel like you’re trolling or anything like that, but you’re willing to get into that pool and I’m just trying to figure out why. Just curious is all.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm more than happy to have a discussion, and there's more posters here than just TJ.
But I do enjoy his opinion when he actually says something worth saying.
I also think you believe i’m much more upset than I am. If this place got me the least bit upset I wouldn’t be here. I have enough stress in my life that I don’t need to find any more in my hobbies than the Cubs already provide.
Obviously it’s impossible to tell how I come across to people on the internet I’ve never met, but I assure you, nothing here really ever gets me riled up, it’s just something else to discuss. I also just don’t get the point of coming here to type the same thing over and over again without any backing or substance when you’re an intelligent baseball person (that to TJ), so it intrigues me if nothing else, which is why I get in that pool to start with.
Baiting him with flattery...
bd takes the offensive!
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
So...
This:
Posts like TJs upset me because I know he is an intelligent baseball fan and has a lot to offer to the board if he actually cared to.
doesn’t mean you’re upset? Again, the way you’re going about trying to get that type of discussion out of someone is only going to get the type of response that only makes you upset. That’s like beating a dog when he does something bad, hoping it’s going to make him do something right. No stupid, that’s only going to make that dog bite you.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Eh, upset in the "I think he can do better" mold.
Not the “Why the hell is he so f’ing stupid!!!!!!!!” mold. Disappointed would have been a better choice.
I’m also not “beating” TJ, haha.
Don't be disappointed by people on the internet
If anything, that bar must always be set as low as possible so that when someone doesn’t come across like a mutant, you’re automatically pleased.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Because really
this could be like Xbox Live, full of 13 year olds calling you the n-word or the other f-word repeatedly, while talking about getting high.
Thankfully it’s not.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Speaking of MO's
I notice yours is to jump into a conversation unbidden and then when someone ELSE jumps into the conversation, you ask why they did so.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jun 23, 2011 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry if you're still upset from something that may or may not have happened weeks ago.
Try not to hold grudges, it’s bad for you. I really don’t know what else you’re referring to in order for it to be an MO of mine.
by bdlugz on Jun 24, 2011 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Its an MO of yours because you do it all the time. I don't need to go back weeks
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jun 24, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh please, stop pretending like you're above everybody
You routinely attack people here, I can recall a few times that you’ve recently just said “LOL @ ALKAPPY” and things of that nature unprovoked.
We'll all miss you Ron.
by alkappy on Jun 23, 2011 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I have never said "LOL @ ALKAPPY"
I may call you, or someone else out on their shit from time to time, but see…there’s this awesome thing, where you can click on my name and you can use this thing called “search” to search through my entire post history to see what I’ve said.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL @ CRAIG
cause I think that’s a reply to TJ.
Weekend contributor at Windy City Gridiron
by Steven Schweickert on Jun 23, 2011 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh snap son!
Got too defensive there. My bad, much love alkappy.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
You are not alone.
I may be strange too though.
Fasten those seat belts...
by katie casey on Jun 23, 2011 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
If ESPN is right and the plan right now is to go young and build for the future then...
…Jim Hendry should be FIRED RIGHT NOW, because as much damage as this guy has caused I wouldn’t at this point allow him to trade anyone for anything. Bring in the future right now and let the rebuilding begin.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
He's acting like a pantywaist.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 23, 2011 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
You keep saying this with absolutely nothing to back that up...
Then again pretty much nothing you ever say can be backed up because it’s pointless commentary.
by bdlugz on Jun 23, 2011 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm finding it amusing that people take criticism of this inept organization...
…personally. You say something bad about management and all of sudden you start getting insults thrown back at you. We’re not insulting your mothers here.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 23, 2011 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
I guess I don't see a need to attack another human being for something they have not even done.
I guess with me it’s simply called morals, but whatever.
by bdlugz on Jun 23, 2011 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is nothing more than a critique and it comes with the jobs that...
…these people occupy. They would tell you that themselves.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jun 23, 2011 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Hmmmm....It seems to me that good organizations are not allowed...
…to use injuries as an excuse. Cardinals?
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
We better stop with the bashing, others here are taking it ...
…personally. ;)
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
I hope you have room to fit all those words in my mouth.
Make sure they stay small so you know what they mean.
Again, I've kept personal invectives aimed at anyone...
…on this site out of the discussion. If you want to take my critique of Ricketts, Quade and Hendry personally, then go right on ahead.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Point still stands, you're trying to put words in my mouth.
If your argument has merits to stand on its own, then make it. Putting words in my mouth is only taking away from your other posts.
My comment to TJ was not aimed at you. That was..
…for anyone that seems to not be able to separate their personal feelings for the Cubs and perceived cheap shots aimed at the organization. I haven’t questioned anyone’s intelligence that post on this site, I’ve kept my disappointment aimed at those that run this team.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
As it stemmed from my post that he was replying to I assumed it was at me.
Fair enough.. simply mistake.
Are you suggesting
that the failure to act responsibility is a defense for irresponsibility?
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
I know, Castro is coming into his own.
The kid even does his own interviews after not knowing English a little over 1 year ago. This kid puts a big smile on my face, not as big as his though, but that’s because I’m no longer 21. I’m glad you’re with me in celebrating the positive we have sitting at SS. He will correct those mistakes in the field with a little more seasoning.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
Vervain!
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Also has been successful in all 10 steal attempts this year.
Big improvement from last year.
by Dcr18 on Jun 23, 2011 1:29 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
he's also 3rd in all of MLB in hits
he’s gewd
Blake "The Franchise" DeWitt will lead us to the promised land
by jesus christos on Jun 23, 2011 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't like the term "gewd"
Sounds like a bedroom mishap.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
Hendry...
Making the decisions for the future of The Cubs. The future of the Cubs, depends on Jim Hendry….
(grabs paper bag)
Two Words: Salty Saltwell
by Unclemike on Jun 23, 2011 1:26 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
My lineup tonight for the SF Giants, Game 1 of the NLDS 2005 from MVP 2005:
SS – Not a real player but a stud.
Rickie Weeks – 2B
Mike Schmidt – 3B
Lou Gehrig – 1B
Johnny Bench – C
BJ Upton – RF
Robin Yount – CF
Juan Encarnacion – LF
Ferguson Jenkins – P
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
Wow, glad I didn't watch the game, that inning alone would have had me raging
SenorGato and the rest of the Quadebackers can pretend that not having Hill bat wasn’t a bad decision, and that’s fine…
But we have ike 17 guys on the roster who can play the outfield, why, WHY would you let Dome bat against a lefty in that situation?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Quick question
is this a criticism of Quade?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jun 23, 2011 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions
You know
I was going to make a joke about that saying to not criticize Quade, but my head hurts way too f’n much today. It was obvious where I was steering that ship anyway.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 23, 2011 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Look out the offensive police will come get you!!!!!!!
DO NOT QUESTION QUADES MOVES!!!!!!
It not allowed in Kool Aid land!!!!
Huh?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jun 23, 2011 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Perspective from the South Side,
Not like I don’t really enjoy relishing in North Side struggles, I totally do. But I’ve gotta say, wasn’t it kind of accepted that you guys weren’t really going to compete this year, and it was gonna be a rebuilding year? Also isn’t half your team injured? I wouldn’t really call this season a lost chance or a complete failure or anything.
I don’t know if you need to be calling for Quade’s head right this minute. I do think Hendry is a bad GM for your club, but I think you should give the manager the rest of the season to feel it out and see how he does. I don’t know if you can hold him completely accountable for the club’s failures this year.
by ScottyPods Ver2.0 on Jun 23, 2011 4:21 PM CDT reply actions
wasn’t it kind of accepted that you guys weren’t really going to compete this year, and it was gonna be a rebuilding year?
by the fans, yes. by management? no
Blake "The Franchise" DeWitt will lead us to the promised land
by jesus christos on Jun 23, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
This ^^^
If OP spent any amount of time reading through the threads, he’d find lots of accountability to go around… but none taken by those who work for the Cubs.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 23, 2011 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Cubs fans were realistic enough to know that EVERYTHING was going to have to go right to compete...
And clearly not much has gone right for the Cubs this year. Bad start, injuries (Wells, Cashner, Byrd, Soriano, Garza, Soto) rookie manager, AA and AAA players called up, etc…
But it’s a shame that the Cubs can’t even sniff .500 when this division is there for the taking. Another wasted year with a lot of questions going into 2012…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Couldn't help yourself, could you?
The answer is , worry about your own manager leaving Peavy in too long. Not that I don’t relish all his stints on the DL, I totall do. I’ve gotta say, wasn’t it kind of accepted that you guys were going to win your division? Not struggle against an injured, rebuilding team. I know I’m stealing from your GM here, but why don’t you stay out of Chicago Cubs business.
Eh, he's not really gloating
And I think he’s being sincere with his questions.
Additionally, I believe them to be good questions. We’ve had thousands of posts stipulating that QIAFI since Opening Day. People were wailing during Spring Training, FFS. So why is BCB still acting like a little girl with a freshly-skinned knee when we witness what we pretty well knew we were gonna witness?
During Lou’s last days as a skipper, an ascending meme around here was “Wait ’til 2012.” I think that’s still valid – I wrote off this season last year. Did I hope for a better fate? Sure. Did I think It was Gonna Happen? Not really. So I am still stunned by those who predicted a 75-win season rending their garments and gnashing their teeth after every game – even the wins, because QWAFI at one point during it (or before it, or after it – witness nickname angst). Asking why that is the case is completely in-bounds here, no matter who is asking the question.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I'll answer that question for you.
“So why is BCB still acting like a little girl with a freshly-skinned knee when we witness what we pretty well knew we were gonna witness?”
At least in my instance, its because I hoped to see some acountability if the season went as I expected. At the moment I have very little confidence there actually will be.
Plus, Quade is a lot worse of a manager than I ever thought he could be. The man lacks common sense, not just managerial acumen.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jun 23, 2011 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with you.
Alot of people seem to want to give Quade a pass because he has a “bad team”. Well good or bad I believe he should be accountable for his decisions.
And a baseball season is not set in stone. It is fluid. I thought if the Cubs played up to their capabilities they would be around .500. I didn’t think that would be good enough to compete. It turns out that we would be battling for the division if we could have played .500. That’s why I get upset.
I was very surprised when they didn't go with Ryno for you guys.
I thought Quade would be an interesting choice, that’s for sure. It just seems like he deserves a bit more time to feel out the position.
by ScottyPods Ver2.0 on Jun 23, 2011 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions
His advantage over Sandberg...
was supposedly his heaps of experience which would have meant he wouldn’t need the time to feel out the position. He’s proven there is no aspect of baseball where he has an advantage over Sandberg with his poor decision making. You can inexperienced… you can’t fix stupid at this level.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jun 24, 2011 3:47 AM CDT up reply actions
The toughest kid in my neighborhood was female. Be careful with what you ask for...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
No, half our team isn't injured
A centerfielder that is average at best when he’s healthy, a second baseman who wasn’t expected to contribute much this season anyway and our fifth starter are injured.
This team is bad…because it’s bad.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jun 23, 2011 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Really. Did you read his first sentence?
And if you think he is sincere, search his posts on Southside Sox. We have been discussing Quade for quite some time. If he had posted that a couple of weeks ago I would have let it go. I don’t believe his timing is an accident. That’s all I wanted him to know.
It wasn't phrased as if it were a taunt
And if I did go over to the other team’s blog, I’d be a lot more respectful about their team on their site than I would on the Game Threads here. In fact, I did exactly that after the Week 17 Packers-Bears game – I went over to WCG to congratulate them on winning the NFC North and playing a helluva game. I mentioned that I hoped the two teams would meet again in the NFCCG. One guy was convinced I was trolling and attacked mercilessly, only to be shouted down by other WCG posters for being a drunken jackass to someone who didn’t deserve it.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I mean I hate you guys, and I'll take shots at the Cubs all day on SSS,
But I was just saying something perfectly logical. I am aware that we were supposed to win our division, yes. Still could happen, maybe. I’m just curious why Quade is being seen as underperforming.
by ScottyPods Ver2.0 on Jun 23, 2011 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions

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