Cubs GM Jim Hendry called Soriano "lean" like a "greyhound," with a "very, very young body for his age." Speaking about the length of the contract, Hendry said, "Who knows if somebody is going to be as productive at 38 as they are at 30 or 31. But, like I said, there's a lot of guys in this game right now swinging the bat at a very high level in their late 30s or even early 40s."
11 months ago
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He might have a lean body.
But he doesn’t have a young body by any means. His knees are shot, and he has consistent quad problems.
R.I.P. to my grandfather, Andrew Wiley
The reason I am a Cub fan forever
I'm curious to hear more about these guys in their late 30s and early 40s
that are swinging at a high level. Todd Helton’s revival season? Am I missing anyone?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 28, 2011 8:15 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
At the time the contract was siged
(when the quote was from) you had guys like Bonds, Jim Thome, and Frank Thomas all putting up good numbers. Obviously they all have certain qualities in common that you don’t find in Soriano.
Yeah, I didn't know the quote was old.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Maybe add Palmeiro to that list.
Although Bonds is the only who could be considered on the lean side of that bunch.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Jun 28, 2011 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think using a HOFer is a comparable.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Those sort of comments are partly why the Cubs are as bad as they are
They don’t use common sense.
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 28, 2011 8:34 AM CDT reply actions
This is what he said when he signed him
Later, it turned out Soriano was 2 years older than previously thought. And then it turned out that some of the players who were hitting well into their 40s were doing so with the help of steroids.
The worst part of the quote was “We’re talking about the best leadoff hitter in all of baseball.” At the time, Soriano’s career OBP was .325, exactly what he’s done since.
Angel Guzman is the man.
Later, it turned out Soriano was 2 years older than previously thought.
This is incorrect. See, this is where people bash Jim Hendry without knowing the facts. This implies that Hendry thought Soriano was two years older than previously thought. False, false, false.
Soriano’s age was changed in 2004 when the Rangers acquired him. The facts are in this article.
There are good reasons to criticize Jim Hendry for some things he has done as Cubs GM. Blaming him for thinking Soriano was older than listed is not one of them.
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Besides, if Hendry had been misled about Soriano's age, that would be a MITIGATING factor for Hendry.
You can’t blame a GM for signing a guy and then finding out he’d lied about his age. I’d be much happier with a GM who signed a guy for 8 years thinking he was 28, than one who signed a guy for 8 years thinking he was 31.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Right.
I wasn’t blaming Hendry for either of those points: true age and effect of steroids on other players. I hadn’t had my coffee yet, and was too lazy to even look up the age issue to verify my (turns out, faulty) memory.
The only thing I think Hendry is responsible for is believing that Soriano was a great leadoff man.
Angel Guzman is the man.
And for not caring about OBP.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Would it be better to publicly trash him
ala Sosa and kill of what little trade value he has?
Generally assume that a GM is not going to trash a player in public for anything besides behavioral issues. Now like everyone else I would like Hendry to step up and admit the TEAM has huge issues, is a bunch of free swinging hackers who can’t field and throw enough strikes and they pretty much lack fundamentals. Singling out players for poor performance is just not a good idea.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
Again, this quote is from Hendry in 2006.
… which was before several injuries robbed Soriano of that “young” body.
I see this as Hendry-bashing for no particular reason other than to do it.
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by Al Yellon on Jun 28, 2011 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You mean like this?
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
by eths on Jun 28, 2011 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Even Greyhounds grow older and slower
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Did we really need to create a post for a quote Hendry made 5 years ago??
Let’s start pulling up what he said about EVERY bad free agent signing, because that’s “proof” that he needs to be fired.
Well, the BP article is new.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Soriano is still swinging the bat well
its just his defense and speed have been robbed by injuries.
by CalCalender on Jun 28, 2011 9:11 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, his injury even slowed down his bat this year. He was rolling pre-injury.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jun 28, 2011 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, wait a second.
He’s still swinging the bat adequately, but he’s not putting up the type of numbers he put up in 2006, or even 2007 and 2008. Further, the fact that he so rarely walks actually makes him age worse, because once his skills deteriorate, he got fewer skills that can supplement his game.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Nothing quite as timely as a quote from 2006
Why is this news? And why is an old rationalization of the Soriano deal, which has lengthened by John McDonaugh, evidence of why we should fire Hendry?
It's not.
You’re right, that this is old news.
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Oh, jeez.
That’s a pretty big overreaction. Essentially, you and some other posters are mad because BP is talking about Soriano’s contract, something we gnash our teeth about a lot around here. But BP doesn’t talk about Soriano’s contract that often, so even though this is old news to us, it’s not really old news to the average BP reader. In fact, I’d bet 80 percent of BP readers either didn’t see the original quote or didn’t remember it until they saw this article.
And given that the Cubs are having another bad year and that bad contracts are seen as why the team is being weighed down, there’s nothing wrong with going back and looking at the comments made when the worst of the bad contracts was signed.
And, given some of the other topics that end up as fanshots — bison dogs! favorite playoff runs for a team that has won one playoff series since 1908! — is a fanshot about this article really so offensive that it needs to be removed?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
No, people are upset because the poster pulled a 2006 Hendry quote out of a recent article
And they are using that quote to point to why he should be fired.
The fact is, we don’t even know what the point of using that quote was unless you pay for a BA subscription, so it’s pretty ridiculous to link to it at all since we don’t know the full context.
Well ...
we got pretty deep into the article before the paywall came up. I think we got the general point, and I certainly don’t think we’re missing context.
If you’re saying that it’s annoying that the OP made his point based only on a five year old quote, well, I guess I can see why that could be annoying. But does it warrant being REMOVED from the site?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I agree
If Al starting banning fan posts like this………… there would be very left
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 28, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I wasn't calling for it to be removed, my point was simply that the OP made a point on a 5 year old quote and passed it off as current
Also, the pay break was directly after that quote, so while the context of the article may be clear, you don’t know where they went with that quote. If they did what the OP did, they shouldn’t be writing professionally anymore.
'where they went with that quote'?
I assumed the headline from the BCB poster was just his/her opinion.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Hindsight is 20/20
It’s always good to evaluate your decisions after a period of time. The faulty thinking Hendry used in signing Soriano is clearly evident based on the results. It’s acceptable to use a sound process and have poor results (due to luck, freak injury, ect.). It’s unacceptable to use a poor process and reap the expected poor results, which Hendry did in this case.
That makes no sense at all.
Looking at Soriano before the 2007 season, what Hendry said is exactly correct.
Again, this is Hendry-bashing for no other reason than Hendry-bashing.
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"Who knows if somebody is going to be as productive at 38 as they are at 30 or 31."
There are countless studies that show that players peak somewhere between 25-30, and are in significant decline by the mid-30s. His statement reveals a flawed thought process, that resulted in predictably bad results.
So by your logic Cubs should only have players between 25-30?
Big name free agents don’t typically become available until after their peak. You’ve also argued that what is happening with Soriano was the expected results – which is not the case. No one expected him to continue on his 40/40/40 season, but no one could have predicted his legs go dead by the 3rd year because of injuries. You’re correct when you say hindsight is 20/20, the problem is you’re the one using hindsight here.
Peak
Very few players, even stars, play at an above average level beyond age 35. Paying someone like a star for multiple years of average or below production is a poor investment. Most large free agent deals do not end up working to the advantage of their team.
And everyone knew we'd be overpaying for the final years of Soriano's contact...
Welcome to the idea of trying to take advantage of a small window of opportunity, which is what the Trib Co. was pushing for.
Well, not to lay blame on the length of the contract ...
which is something I no longer do on this site …
you might be right that most of us figured years seven and eight would be overpaying time, I sure as HELL didn’t think Soriano would only have two years where he was actually worth the money he was making.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
And Im sure the Cubs didn't expect that either.
Hence the outrage for the most part.
Well ...
We can’t let the Cubs off the hook because they, like us, figured Soriano would have been better longer. The organization has access to reams of information that we never see.
If this were an isolated incident, I could blow it off as one of those things. But the Cubs consistently overpay and give too many years.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I agree
Sori isn’t even the worst. I can at least see how there is possible defense of Sori signing but how do defend JH actions with MB signing
MB was. Did JH not realize how in Chicago MB who already had issues might have more in Chicago before he signed him to that contract?
Hence why I agree with elgato. I am looking at the various FA signings.
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 28, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
and you need those superstars
in order to get to the NLCS and the WS on a consistent basis. The problem isnt Soriano’s contract, its Soriano + Ramirez + Fukudome + Zambrano + Grabow + Shark…you add up all of these underperforming contracts and it handcuffs the team.
You can look at most MLB teams and point out at least 1 contract that is underperforming (and at times grossly underperforming)
by hansman1982 on Jun 28, 2011 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
That's true.
The Soriano contract is probably the worst of the bunch, but the Cubs could work around it if the other deals you mentioned weren’t around.
Fortunately, after this season, we’ll get to see if you’re right.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I hope so
I am squarely in the middle of the two extreme camps on Cubs management (except the business side who I think are a bunch of idiots). I really do believe that they have a plan in place and that they knew this season was a crap-shoot for contention and that is why you didnt see us in the Cliff Lee discussion (I think even TR knows that if you are truly a player or two away from WS contention you open up the purse strings), why we traded for Garza and why Pena got a 1 year deal.
It will be interesting to see how Hendry does when he has an involved owner above him and not someone who simply says to win now at all costs.
by hansman1982 on Jun 28, 2011 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I was fine with Hendry returning in 2011.
Any GM would have just had to clean up Jim’s mess anyway, and I figured maybe Hendry could save his job if he put together a winner. But that hasn’t happened, obviously.
I’d say there are four reasons why I’m done with Jimbo, at this point:
1) The 2008-09 offseason.
2) An organizational emphasis on aggressiveness.
3) A regular tendency to sell low and buy high (with some exceptions).
4) Failure to develop a minor league system that has consistently produced good players. Some good recent results don’t negate a decade of failure.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I agree with everything
add in 5) Failure to accept sabermetrics and that would be my list.
I would be ok with him staying if I knew that this year wasnt being planned on being a contention year anyway – in that light then the most recent offseason makes sense…good defensive 1b, getting a young starter and allowing him to adjust to the new league in a year that you dont anticipate contending, no big money long term deals…
Good No. 5 addition.
Agreed.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
But the Cubs have a stats guy now.
Baseball is pitching, hitting, baserunning and defense.
by daver on Jun 29, 2011 2:16 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yep, Ricketts first hire was a well renowned stat guy.
Whether is being used properly… who knows.
His lack of background and seeming distaste for metrics....
is my reason #1 and has been for years.
I do have to say that I do think I really lik the types of hitters and hitting prospects we seem to be going after/getting. Castro is a prototype…the kind of contact, line drive, low k, doubles+ hitter I think well be seeing more of in time. So as far as the minors are concerned I think Hendry has improved by leaps and bounds…now if only a prior esque pitching talent could show up again. I trust that a monster bat 1B will be making his way here this offseason.
by SenorGato on Jun 30, 2011 3:00 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
How can anyone who is watching him lumber around the OF think of a greyhound....
If that is his talent evaluation….another reason for removal….
But remember Tom is a weak owner so it will not happen.
Have you read any of the comments here?
This quote was made in November of ’06 after a 41 stolen base season. At the time, it was a very appropriate comment.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 28, 2011 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't bother, any time he can comment on Hendry being an idiot or Ricketts being a weak owner he jumps at the chance.
And will never reply to logic – even when it’s quite clearly stated this is a five year old comment.
This is just spin...
…by Hendry at this point in time.
It doesn’t matter much what a guy’s body looks like, it only matters how they perform on the field.
The Cubs are not in the modeling business, they are a baseball team and how well they play baseball is all that matters.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I just get a kick out of this...
…talking about a guys body and how good they look for their age, it is completely irrelevant to performance on the field.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Just remember that quote is from more than four years ago. It's not spin "at this point in time".
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No, you're wrong
The quotes were from Jim Hendry in 2006 after he time travelled to 2011. And he still said greyhound.
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
by RiskyBusiness on Jun 29, 2011 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Wow!
Jim Hendry can time travel? Maybe he can go back to 2003 and help Alex Gonzales turn that double play.
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Just a little more coaching before Game 6
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
by RiskyBusiness on Jun 29, 2011 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I can see it - afterall
Greyhounds break down about as fast as Soriano does
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
greyhound: soriano's new nickname
Blake "The Franchise" DeWitt will lead us to the promised land
by jesus christos on Jun 28, 2011 12:53 PM CDT reply actions
How about "Mega-bust"?
J/k
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
by elgato on Jun 28, 2011 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You know why BP posted an article like that?
Because they couldn’t get an updated quote from Hendry now. They probably don’t have a press pass and they’re on the outside looking in.
Is there any real news there? I’m not paying to read an article that starts with 5 year old quotes.
Let me search around the BP site. Maybe they have yesterday’s weather forecast.
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
When Soriano was signed
the Cubs were coming off a disastrous season, and he was the best free agent out there. The Cubs were being dissed for always finishing second in the free agent sweepstakes. They had just lost out on Furcal after they thought he had committed. The steroid bubble hadn’t totally burst, and players were still performing well in their late 30s.
At the time, few people complained about the length of Soriano’s contract. The Cubs won division championships in his first two years, and he made significant contributions in both. This despite serious leg injuries.
Just a bit of historical perspective.
It's also worth noting that the 2006-07 offseason was the last one before the Great Recession officially started.
The Cubs blew their wad right before the economy went down hill and FAs started making less money.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Actually, the recession began in 2008...
… so it would have been the 2007-08 offseason.
And FA’s started making less money? Jayson Werth would like to have a word with you.
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