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Cubs Swept By Giants In Marathon Doubleheader

I'm going to make this fairly short because... well, the Cubs and Giants didn't on Tuesday.

Six hours and 22 minutes of game time and about two hours and 15 minutes of interregnum yesterday combined for a double Cubs defeat to the Giants, 13-7 in the day game and 6-3 in the night game; the Giants have now won seven in a row, and the Cubs dropped to 9-18 for June.

About the only truly nice thing about Tuesday was the weather, probably the nicest day we've had in Chicago all spring and summer; temperatures were in the low 80s, humidity was low, there was a nice breeze and there was virtually unlimited sunshine, interrupted only by a handful of fair-weather clouds.

I could talk for a long time about the weather, especially the fact that we have not had consecutive completely sunny days in Chicago since February (according to Tom Skilling, and we may have that today), but this is, after all, a Cubs and baseball site, so let's talk about this dreary doubleheader instead. Fact: it was the first time the Cubs had been swept in a doubleheader since the last week of the 2009 season, when they were swept at home by the Pirates. (OK, enough history, you're saying, on with it!)

Star-divide

The Giants have the second-best record in the National League, now 12 games over .500. How they have done this up to now is a mystery, because before yesterday's doubleheader, they had a negative run differential, -4; by outscoring the Cubs by nine total runs yesterday, they're now in positive territory, 284 runs scored to 279 allowed. They moved from 16th to 15th in the NL in runs.

Actually, I do know how the Giants have been doing this -- their excellent pitching staff and bullpen; they're 22-11 in one-run games.

Yesterday, they didn't need that bullpen or closer Brian Wilson until the ninth inning of game two, when an Aramis Ramirez home run off Guillermo Mota led Bruce Bochy to make two pitching changes in the ninth inning -- maybe he's been taking Mike Quade lessons, one of the reasons he named Quade to replace resigned Nationals manager Jim Riggleman to his All-Star team coaching staff yesterday.

And the Giants, scoring 19 runs yesterday, scored more than they had in their previous seven games combined. The 13 runs posted in the first game was the most they had scored since... they shut out the Cubs 13-0 last September 23 at Wrigley Field.

The Cubs tried to keep the first game close; it was only 6-3 Giants when SF blasted Doug Davis (who gave up 10 earned runs, raising his ERA from 5.01 to 6.50) and Chris Carpenter for five in the fifth, making it 11-3. The Cubs came back with three more in the bottom of the inning, but that only prolonged the agony. Carlos Pena and Koyie Hill (who has now equalled a career high, two home runs in a season) homered in the first game, which lasted three hours and 22 minutes. Only six other Cubs nine-inning games this year have lasted that long.

The game ended about 4:45 and it was announced the gates would open for game two at 6:00, but the cleaning crew did their job quickly and the Cubs opened up for the nightcap at 5:30. If only they had started then; game two slogged along almost as languidly as game one. The Cubs actually led this game and Rodrigo Lopez was pitching reasonably well until the fifth inning, when they should have been out of the inning after just three batters. Andres Torres singled, stole second and went to third when Carlos Pena made a slick stop of Emmanuel Burriss' sharp ground ball.

So with one out, Pablo Sandoval hit a fly ball to shallow center. Reed Johnson made a perfect throw, tagging Torres... and that should have ended the inning with the Cubs leading 2-1.

But Geovany Soto dropped the ball. I watched the replay several times. Mike Quade and Soto argued vehemently. It looked like plate umpire Tim McClelland made the right call.

Still, this only made the score 2-2 with two out and no one on base. But the Cubs fell apart after that. After two more hits Lopez was lifted; John Grabow came in and gave up three more hits and by the time he got Torres, batting for the second time in the inning, to pop to Starlin Castro to end it to a very loud chorus of boos, the Giants led 6-2. Ramirez's consolation home run made it 6-3.

In games started by Davis, Lopez, Casey Coleman and James Russell, the Cubs are 4-19, 15 games under .500. This accounts for almost their entire deficit to the .500 mark, as they are 16 under overall. Even .500-level replacement starters would have the team, presumably, around .500. Starting pitching, which many of us thought would be a strength this year, has been a tremendous disappointment.

The crowd for game 1, which was a makeup of a rainout on Sunday, May 15, was announced as 39,157; it looked like about 30,000 were in the house during the day. A few hundred fewer tickets were sold for the night game --38,360 -- with about the same number in actual attendance, many of whom stared to leave early after the Giants' five-run fifth.

Let us hope we have seen the last of Rodrigo Lopez in a Cubs uniform. A favorable scoring change after the game was over, changing the play at the plate to an error on Soto instead of a sacrifice fly, took three earned runs off Lopez's record, "dropping" his ERA from 6.87 to 5.40. Enough already. Marcos Mateo was recalled for game two with DJ LeMahieu sent to Iowa (it'll be his first Triple-A action). Mateo actually pitched pretty well, giving credit where it's due, but the Cubs don't need 13 pitchers and Darwin Barney is supposed to be activated today. Give Lopez his figurative gold retirement watch and release him, please.

I see this didn't wind up "fairly short", but then again, neither was the doubleheader. After tonight's game, the Cubs will have played half the 2011 schedule. Hasn't been a lot of fun. Hope the second half at least brings better weather than the first half did, and a little better baseball. (And played more quickly, please.)

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Rebuilding (?) year and all, I can "get", but still this is a really painful season up to now.

Just to reach .500 the Cubs need to play .598 ball for the next 82 games.

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Jun 29, 2011 7:37 AM CDT reply actions  

Eths,

i think that’s the problem, if they had called it a rebuilding year, i wouldnt be so pissed, but they acted like they’d contend.

by epsilon on Jun 29, 2011 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

And they haven't really treated it like a rebuilding year in practice either...

They’ve toed the waters a bit on rebuilding (playing guys like Barney and Cashner), but haven’t really committed to it. Even with all the injuries, they’ve only half-hearted the rebuilding approach.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Because the guys you're discussing are... on the DL?

I’m not really following your logic here, they’re pretty much going full steam ahead with the young guys who are ready except for Flaherty. You don’t bring up youth who aren’t ready just because they’re young and you’re rebuilding.

by bdlugz on Jun 29, 2011 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, Colvin, Campana, and LeMahieu are not on the DL...

The team has had plenty of opportunity to give those guys extended looks. Instead, we’ve seen a lot of Blake DeWitt and Reed Johnson. If you’re in a rebuilding mode, those guys remain bench players.

I don’t think LeMahieu is ready and I don’t think Campana will cut it as a regular. But if you’re in rebuilding mode and going to call them up, you should let them play.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Campana is a future 5th outfielder at best on ANY Cubs team, so why put him in any other role other than the one he'll hold long term?

Colvin completely lost his swing this year and keeping him in Chicago was only going to hurt his development, LeMahieu I would like to see play more, and that’s the only one I really agree with you on.

Once again, you don’t play kids who aren’t ready just because you want to go young – that’s a recipe for disaster.

by bdlugz on Jun 29, 2011 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

What's the value in playing Reed Johnson over Campana?

I agree that Campana is not likely to be more than a 5th OF. I don’t think his bat will warrant it. In a rebuilding effort, that’s the kind of thing you try to find out. We know Reed Johnson isn’t going to be an everyday CF. Same thing for DeWitt/Baker at 2B.

Colvin lost his swing, but was that due to inactivity? If this was a rebuilding year, he should have been given regular playing time to play through it. If it really was a loss of swing prior to the loss of playing time, then he should have stayed in AAA the whole time. There was never value in having him sitting on the bench at the start of this season.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

part of that

would be to allow Campana to acclamate to the 5th OF role and work on having good atbats with limited playing time…

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2011 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Or confirming that he can't be a regular first...

Finding starters is harder to do than finding reserves. So getting guys acclimated to a reserve role is less of a priority than figuring out whether or not guys can be starters.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Campana

His OBA is up to .350 against righties and he leads this slow-ass team in steals. If he platooned against righties, and he worked on his bunting and approach at the plate – he could have value

by John916 on Jun 29, 2011 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying he can't have value, but he's not going to ever be a platoon player...

He’s probably a defensive replacement/pinch runner and a possible pinch hitter vs. righties.

by bdlugz on Jun 29, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is most likely his destiny...

but in a lost season, I think it makes more sense to give him the chance to prove himself (either way) than it does to run out a guy like Reed Johnson (who we know is a 4th OF/platoon guy).

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately the Cubs will still put out the team that gives them the best shot to win..

They’re a big market team and have big market expenses to cover. If you have 12 Tony Campanas on your team to see what they can do, your bottom line is screwed. At the end of the day, the Cubs are still a business, and while it’s nice to see what legitimate prospects may have, running out 5th outfielders to see if they may be something more will leave a bad taste in even the casual fans mouth.

by bdlugz on Jun 29, 2011 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

And I should even add in that I agree with you.

I personally would rather see Campana start that RJ. Simply stated above why I don’t think it will/can happen.

by bdlugz on Jun 29, 2011 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree...

my whole point has been that they haven’t really committed to a rebuilding mode. The fact that they’re running guys like Johnson out there in a failing attempt to be mediocre this year is evidence of that.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

i get all those points...

but i love Reed Johnson. I want them to retire his number (wont happen)…it’s just awesome to see a guy play the way he does.

by epsilon on Jun 29, 2011 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Serious question

When is the last time the Cubs openly said they were in a rebuilding mode?

by Danwood on Jun 29, 2011 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

No idea...

I doubt it’s common for any organization to openly say it. And I don’t believe we’ve often said it or practiced it. We basically did it in 2006, going with Cedeno, Murton, Marshall, Hill, Marmol, Mateo, Guzman, and eventually Theriot. But I don’t know if the team openly admitted doing it.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

"A Failing Attempt to Be Mediocre"

Sounds like a great title for the 2011 Cubs highlight film…

by ClarkFan on Jun 30, 2011 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

They should...

…get extended looks, but it’s likely none of them will be legit major league starters and Cub’s brass should be prepared for that.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2011 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

DeWitt is about 15 days older than Colvin.

And at this point, has a much better future in the MLB.

by mic on Jun 29, 2011 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

but DeWitt

wasnt as good of a bring back in the Lilly trade so he immediately sucks

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

I disagree...

Colvin had an OPS of .800+ with no platoon-type splits last year when he got regular time. And Colvin is raking in AAA. He has the potential to be a solid corner-OF bat. Colvin may or may not regain his form from last year, but he’s already done more in his short MLB career than DeWitt. So I think saying DeWitt has a much better future rings a bit hollow to me.

DeWitt doesn’t suck, but he hasn’t seemed to show the power to be a corner-IF or OF, and he’s debatable defensively at 2B.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

If it's a tie-breaker

Colvin will be cheaper for a couple extra years.

Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News

by Brett Taylor on Jun 29, 2011 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Colvin has not done more than DeWitt in their careers...

This love/hate thing is getting way out of control here. Colvin has a career WAR of 0.8 and DeWitt has a career WAR of 2.2.

Thier best seasons are comparable in terms of value, and at DeWitt did that at 23/24 in the Majors. Yes, DeWitt is also having a terrible year this year, but this team is a mess – I won’t judge too much from 2011.

by bdlugz on Jun 29, 2011 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Colvin's best year is better than anything DeWitt has done...

My wording was bad, but that was my point. Obviously DeWitt has more WAR over his career, as he’s played 3 more years at the big league level. But Colvin’s best year was better than DeWitt’s best year. Colvin had a WAR of 1.9. DeWitt’s best is 1.7.

DeWitt’s best year came two years earlier than Colvin’s best year. But Colvin’s best year has been much more recent. DeWitt followed his best year with a mediocre year in AAA and then a mediocre year in LA/Chicago. Colvin has followed it up with a strong year so far in AAA after flailing in limited time.

But basically my main point is that I think it’s wrong to say that DeWitt clearly has a better future right now than Colvin. Last year, at the same age and with similar playing time, Colvin had an additional win above replacement over DeWitt. This year, both have been primarily reserves, so I consider the assessment incomplete.

It may be that Colvin never regains his 2010 form. But DeWitt is far removed from his best season, and has shown no signs of doing anything more than that.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I even noted their best seasons were similar, so I wasn't trying to hide their WARs for their best year

And DeWitt followed up his 1.7 WAR season with a long stint in AAA (out of his control) and had a bad year. Then came back after that and posted a season of 0.9, which is respectable for a minimum wage guy playing sporadically and in a super utility role.

DeWitt has played in 344 major league games to Colvins 179 and has a career WAR 2.75x higher. Even if you assume similar production from Colvin over the next 165 games, he falls short of DeWitts numbers.

I’m not saying DeWitt is great, or even a good player for the Cubs – but to say Colvin is the future and DeWitt wont/can’t be is short sighted on DeWitt or way optimistic on Colvin.

by bdlugz on Jun 29, 2011 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't say Colvin is the future or that DeWitt won't/can't be...

I’m just saying that the statement that DeWitt “has a much better future in the MLB” is not accurate. I’d actually argue the other way. That doesn’t mean DeWitt can’t have a future or that Colvin can’t fail. Obviously both are still young and question marks. I just personally like Colvin’s future better, and think it’s unreasonable to say DeWitt’s future is clearly better.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I guess we're not even really arguing then..

I never said or have thought DeWitt has much of a future in the MLB. If I had I was probably drunk. I think DeWitt can be a useful backup 2B/3B for someone (not the Cubs likely, as we have a bunch of those already in Baker, Barney, LeMahieu, etc).

I like Colvin, I’d like to see what he has for sure, because a corner OF with 30HR potential is intriguing.

by bdlugz on Jun 29, 2011 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with you guys on most of your points.

All I said was “at this point.” People look at DeWitt like he is a 33-year-old veteran and at Colvin like he is a 21-year-old future all star. I just wanted to point out that they were actually the same age, and that at this point DeWitt is more proven in his role. Colvin was miserably bad in his MLB stint earlier this year, and his high K rate certainly doesn’t lend itself well to believing he can be an every day guy.

I haven’t given up on him yet, but I think his ceiling was significantly lowered by his bad start. If you ask me, they are both career back-ups, and right night now, DeWitt fills more holes. I hope I’m wrong about Colvin, and that he can be an everyday right fielder, but at “at this point,” DeWitt is more proven and deserves a spot on the team just as much as Colvin.

by mic on Jun 29, 2011 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

At this point DeWitt is more proven...

but I disagree with the idea that Colvin’s ceiling has lowered this year. His ceiling is still 30+ HR power with an .850ish OPS (Soriano with better defense).

There’s a very real possibility that he doesn’t get that back. But there’s also the very real possibility that his struggles this year were due to lack of regular playing time.

Saying DeWitt is more proven and deserves a spot on the team is a very different argument than saying he has a brighter future. I think DeWitt is a very solid role player and could develop into an everyday player. But I think Colvin’s ceiling is higher. DeWitt is less likely to be useless, but I think he’s also less likely to be an impact player.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fair enough. Good points.

I fear that Colvin has been “figured out.” No it wouldn’t be fair not to give him a chance to “adjust” and “reconfigure” his batting. I’m just not as keen on Colvin as the rest of you guys. I’m just not seeing 30+ HR and .850 OPS.

by mic on Jun 29, 2011 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

With his smoking .295 OBP?

Colvin may not make it in MLB, but he may actually be a power hitter. Blake DeWitt has managed to prove his enduring talent as a marginal utililty player, who combines indifferent hitting with indifferently fielding at several positions.

by ClarkFan on Jun 30, 2011 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would speculate they trying to straddle the line of low losses (and high attendence) and rebuilding at the same time.

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Jun 29, 2011 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

This

And because of the high price of tickets, they can’t afford to come out and declare a rebuilding year, like the Royals or Pirates can. It’s rather unfortunate.

by RynoRooter on Jun 29, 2011 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not convinced they have been in a rebuilding mode at all yet...

I think they were hoping for “transition” rather than rebuilding. Signing Pena and trading for Garza (moves that I’m okay with, by the way) don’t suggest a rebuild. They only went with Barney because their alternatives (Baker and DeWitt) were cheap and unproven anyway.

Now that the season is almost certainly a lost cause, they should give up that hope and focus on rebuilding. Guys like Byrd, Fukudome, Johnson, DeWitt, etc are not going to be regulars on the team moving forward. We should be giving guys like Colvin, Campana, and LeMahieu a real chance to prove whether or not they can be MLB regulars.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

I actually thought they would be a plesant surprise this year (e.g. a close third place), and not a nasty surprise .

But I didn’t seriously think they had more than an outside chance of reaching the playoffs. As always, I was hoping for more.

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Jun 29, 2011 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

What preseason conversation was that?

I have never spoken to Jim Hendry except for a couple of brief introductions at a couple of Cubs conventions.

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by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

I do not remember that either....I remember your chat with Ricketts....

Still would like to see him take our questions…..and allow follow ups.
We would do better than the media

by TJ11 on Jun 29, 2011 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd still like to do this.

I’ll let you all know if I can arrange it.

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by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

If you’re NICE, I’m sure he would.

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by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have nothing against him personally....

I just have questions the media will not ask
and would not let him spin as usual.

by TJ11 on Jun 29, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

While I give you credit for attempting to put something like that together

I see absolutely no reason why Tom would be interested in doing so.

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jun 29, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

We'll see.

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by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

No offense to Al

But if he sat down w/TR and asked a variety of tough questions…. that might be Al’s last chance to meet with him.

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 29, 2011 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sure people would be civil.

It’s the spin from Tom I’m worried about.

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jun 29, 2011 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Almost everytime Him or Hendry gets asked a tough question, it seems to get dodged without a follow up.

Is it too much to ask to get some straight answers?

Ricketts is really coming across as weak.

by TJ11 on Jun 29, 2011 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also they spin so even if you ask the right question

After he answers it’s b/c the injuries.

Al or anyone else can’t say…. Let’s be honest the injuries haven’t hurt other teams as much the Cubs so what do you think really is the problem.

Yes I think it is too much to ask for straight answers.

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 29, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pena tied for 6th most HRs in the NL with Pujols at 17

One more and he’s tied for 3rd. For all the hand wringing in April we pretty much got what we expected out of Pena.

Oh, and your “if you told me at the start of the season I’d smacked myself silly” stat? Koyie Hill now has as many HRs as Castro.

by Danwood on Jun 29, 2011 7:40 AM CDT reply actions  

Castro needs more discipline before he matches the power predictions for him

He swings at pitches it simply isn’t possible to drive. He get his share of singles on them, but he won’t start collecting a lot of XBH until/unless he learns the limits of the strike zone.

by ClarkFan on Jun 29, 2011 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

Castro needs discipline or we’ll get to watch him
a) turn into Soriano and swing at just about anything or
b) become the next Theriot singles machine

by trogdar on Jun 29, 2011 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

For him to be hitting at such a high average in the majors at only 20-21 years old

Is absolutely impressive. He made his adjustments to counter what pitchers are doing to him… he’s got a great hitter’s brain inside that head. He’ll continue to develop at the plate. However, I’m not so sure about his fielding prowess. Gary

Sheffield started at SS… moved to 3B, and eventually ended up in the OF. We just saw Alex Gordon in Kansas City, playing LF. I don’t know what position Castro will play for the majority of his career, but I’m not sure it will be SS.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Jun 29, 2011 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Pena has been as good as could be expected...

After a horrific April, he’s OPSed over .900 in both May and June. It was a given that he’d have a low average but a high OBP and he’d hit for power and play great defense.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Al - you forgot the BREAKING NEWS from last night!!

From ESPN: Cubs manager Mike Quade got a nice pregame surprise when it was announced that Giants manager Bruce Bochy had added him to the NL staff for the All-Star Game, to be played July 12 in Phoenix. Quade replaced former Washington manager Jim Riggleman, who resigned last week.

Because NOBODY is more deserving of being at the All-Star game than Mike Quade!

Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!

by DKT on Jun 29, 2011 7:43 AM CDT reply actions  

Quade's advantage

Give Quade this, if you give him nothing else this year:

He is one of the best third base coaches in the game.

Hack Wilson IX

by KO Stradivarius on Jun 29, 2011 7:55 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

One more question...

Does the loss of the makeup game count as a loss on a Sunday? Because now the Cubs are a fantastic 1-12 on Sundays!

Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!

by DKT on Jun 29, 2011 7:49 AM CDT reply actions  

No it doesn't.

But the Cubs are 4-9 on Tuesdays.

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by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Didn't think so...

Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!

by DKT on Jun 29, 2011 7:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Have the Cubs started a worse pair of pitchers in a doubleheader?

Couldn’t be possible…

"Very definitely..." R. Santo

by Dan Serafini on Jun 29, 2011 7:49 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

You know...

… I checked 1962 and 1966, the two worst seasons in Cubs history, and they played a lot of DH in those days. I couldn’t find any worse pair.

1980? Nope. 2006? Nope.

Yesterday, I think, was as bad as it gets, at least in the last 50 years.

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by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Actually

It’s been this bad all season long…and most of last season as well. I don’t think there is any doubt that this is one of the most poorly cobbled together squads in the past several years. And dollar for dollar, this is pretty easily the worst Cubs team in decades, featuring very short and unsustainable bursts of decent play surrounded by alternating amounts of apathy and futility.

And why stop at Lopez? Davis, Coleman, Grabow, Mateo, Berg, Atkins….none of those guys are major league pitchers and I’m quite obviously missing quite a few.

The youth that has been brought up to now is marginal at best. The players they believe are core players for the next several years are also quite flawed in most respects. These truly are dark, dark days.

"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder

by krummy12 on Jun 29, 2011 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

I kinda checked out '04-'06

For i think obvious reasons, but wasnt the 2006 team supposed to actually Contend and take the division?

by epsilon on Jun 29, 2011 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

maybe it was the '04 team...

following up the flop and then they were just horrible? that was my early 20’s i was drinking alot and baseball wasnt as important!

by epsilon on Jun 29, 2011 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes

High expectations for 2004, after the near-miss the year before.

by RynoRooter on Jun 29, 2011 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is one of the most telling bits of information I've read in a long time.

And your last sentence should be carved in gold somewhere.

At least, we can hope it won’t get any worse.

"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo

by chilango2 on Jun 29, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

As far as worst seasons go...

this 2011 squad is slowly making its way into the conversation.

With the 1st pick in the 2012 Baseball Amateur Draft, the Chicago Cubs select...

by Easy Ed on Jun 29, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately, yes it is.

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by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

Reminding me more and more of 2006.

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 29, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Getting dejected twice with each game, it seems

Once after the game ends and then the second time reading the re-cap here.

Am trying to maintain a positive attitude towards the Cubs, but man are they making it difficult!

I enjoy this website because it's so interesting to see folks pole vaulting over mouse turds.

by BAMACOLONEL on Jun 29, 2011 7:52 AM CDT reply actions  

Why?

Wait ’til next year. And when you get there, wait a couple more.

Hack Wilson IX

by KO Stradivarius on Jun 29, 2011 7:57 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Is Pena a free agent after this year?

If so, would the Cubs try to re-sign him?

"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse

by ronsanto10 on Jun 29, 2011 7:57 AM CDT reply actions  

Answers

Yes, and maybe.

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by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 7:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Salary

I hope they don’t sign him, if for no other reason than to not pay him $10 million a year. Not really worth it at that price. Maybe if they can negotiate him down for a multi-year deal, but the $10 million 1-year deal might have set a bad precedent.

by trogdar on Jun 29, 2011 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

i can think of no other player

who is worth his contract other than Pena…if Fielder doesnt come over this off season i’d have no problem signing Pena back. Derrek Lee is getting 7.25 Million and has 6 HR and 22 RBI’s…. no thanks…

by epsilon on Jun 29, 2011 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

He would probably be worth the money, but it's not like he can do the 2012 Cubs much good

They just need more than he can bring, unless he can also take a turn in the rotation and put in 220 innings with a sub-3.00 ERA.

by ClarkFan on Jun 29, 2011 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

the nice thing about him

is that he is a solid glove when you have a young SS that is still learning the game…

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2011 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know....

…Pena has saved errant throws from Castro at first countless times and we are only half way through the year.

If Pena can hit around 30 dings and drive in 90, he is worth the 10 mil without question when you factor in his glove and good attitude.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2011 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed...

I’m just fine with what Pena brings to the table. Following an awful April, he’s been as much as could have been asked for and then some in May and June. He’s been one of the few bright spots on this team.

He’s not Pujols and he’s not Fielder. But he’s better than Fielder defensively and as good defensively as Pujols. And he’d come at a much cheaper price than those guys.

I think if we can get Fielder or Pujols we have to do it. But I wouldn’t have the slightest problem giving Pena a 2-3 year deal at $10 million per year if we can’t get Fielder or Pujols.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

The problem is that the Cubs also need 2 starters, a RF, a 3B, and bullpen help

With all those holes, the team is going to have a hard time contending during Pena’s window as a player.

by ClarkFan on Jun 29, 2011 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

And how...

…will they be able to fill all those holes with the money they would have to pay Pujols and or Fielder?

Also, Pujols window is not that long either and I don’t see Ricketts letting the payroll get back over 140+ mil (which would be required without question if you pay one guy 25+ mil).

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2011 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pujols also now has to recover from a significant wrist/hand injury...

For a hitter, that’s a big question mark. So even considering that his window may not be much longer than Pena’s (if at all longer), he might not prove worth the investment even in the short term.

And you’re absolutely right – signing Pujols or Fielder would likely be the only big move we’d make in the offseason. We wouldn’t be able to afford a RF or 3B or two starters or bullpen help. Pena wouldn’t be as good as those two, but he’d allow us to address a few more holes.

As is, I think we’re going to need to hope that Colvin can rebound and be the answer in RF. I don’t know what to think about 3B (I don’t think Vitters or Flaherty or LeMahieu is the answer next year). And I haven’t thought enough about available pitchers.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think a much better move would be a deal with the Yankees

Sending some pitching (Big Z) in a package that gets us Jesus Montero. Montero could develop into an All-Star first baseman in the National League.

One can dream, can’t he? Although… this isn’t impossible.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Jun 29, 2011 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, it is.

Z won’t go to the AL. As he said last weekend, he likes to hit.

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by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Does Al really have a DWC ???

DWC = Designated Water Cooler

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Jun 29, 2011 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm under the impression that he'll agree to go the the Yanks

Come on… who in their right mind wouldn’t agree to play there, and have a legitimate chance to win a WS?

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Jun 29, 2011 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm under the impression that he won't.

Not only that, but I have heard the Yankees have “zero” interest in him.

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by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would like to see Z stay with the Cubs.

If for nothing else, we all know if he goes elsewhere, he will end up having the best year of his career somewhere else. Let’s keep him as long as we can and get that “career year” out of him, he still has it.

by adam316 on Jun 29, 2011 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not convinced he still has it...

his velocity is gone. He’s throwing 7-8 mph slower than he did when he was dominant. And I don’t think he has the command to be dominant when his fastball is in the 88-90 mph range.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

His velocity...

…has dropped, but not by that much (more like 2-4 mph).

Also, when Z was throwing 95+, that isn’t always the best thing for a guy who throws a sinker, because the pitches tend to not move as much.

With that said, I would agree that Z’s best days are behind him and I don’t think he will ever be a guy who has good command, but he is still tough for guys to hit when he throws strikes. He could probably be a legit 13-15 game winner for the next several years.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2011 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

I disagree on the amount of velocity drop...

In his younger days, he hit mid/high-90s. Now, he sits in the high-80s and can get up to low-90s. That’s more than 2-4 mph.

The reason that it’s relevant is because I don’t think the velocity drop has resulted in “better” movement. I think Zambrano has always had debatable command. The extra velocity took some break off those pitches, but it made him much less hittable.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

If you recall...

…when Z started game two of the series in 03 against the Braves, he was so amped up, he was hitting 100mph on the gun. He also got lit up that game, because his fastball straightened out.

I agree with your general premis that he isn’t as dominant as he was 3-4 years ago and some of that is based on velocity. I still think he has good enough stuff to win 15 games if he has decent command, keeps his head and stays healthy.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think we play

the Astros often enough to get him 15 wins.

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Jun 29, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

On a decent team...

…he could win 15.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2011 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sure - if given enough run support Davis could win 15...

Jason Marquis won 14 with an ERA of 6.02.

Otherwise, I agree. Just pointing out that wins aren’t a very good metric.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well then

it’s unlikely he’ll accomplish that unless he’s traded.

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Jun 29, 2011 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Zambrano was never touching high 90s... I have no idea where you have seen those numbers.

Radar guns on some of those broadcasts can run hot, but he was never really throwing above 95. He’s still sitting 90-92 and touching 93, so it’s not like his drop is as bad as you’re claiming.

by bdlugz on Jun 29, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

He was touching high-90s early in his career...

We only have what’s available on broadcasts. Those same broadcasts that said high-90s back in 2003-2005 now say mostly around 90 (and I’d say more often in the high-80s than than low-90s).

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Saying they have...

…zero interest in him could be posturing, as I wouldn’t expect a shrewd GM to ever say they have interest in a player, because it lowers their leverage.

It may be true they don’t have interest, but I wouldn’t base that on what they put out there for public consumption.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2011 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Heard from who?

Since you love to attack others who offer up blind sources.

I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers

by Nunyabidness on Jun 29, 2011 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

No way the Yankees do that...

They may very well end up trading Montero, but it’ll be for a better pitcher than Zambrano.

But I agree – that’d be a fantastic trade.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

marshall and pena might draw more

The yankees need lhp relief pitching and an upgrade at dh, marshall and pena could draw a fine return, maybe montero, gary sanchez and a slade heathcott type. I really think the cubs would do better to fill 1b with a young cost controlled hitter and to spend their f.a. dollars on a stud pitcher or jose reyes.

by neifiisgreat on Jun 29, 2011 10:38 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

It's a broken forearm - not as big of a deal.

Certainly not a wrist injury. He has a greenstick fracture in his radius

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jun 29, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with this.

Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the ground each morning the devil says, "OH CRAP, SHE'S UP"!

by sue369 on Jun 29, 2011 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pena's on pace to be worth $13-14M this year

His contract is actually worth less than $10M (since half of it is deferred a year).

He has been one of the few bright spots on this abysmal team.

by Wreckard on Jun 29, 2011 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Al, this gets asked every recap

In your opinion and your sources is Ricketts gonna continue to ride Hendry to the finish line? Doesn’t he owe it to the people continuing to show up TO DO SOMETHING, ANYTHING!!!

Al, if you’re not going to bring Hendry back—-just can’t see how he can unless he wants a huge drop in ticket sales—why not just do it now?

by MikeJW on Jun 29, 2011 7:57 AM CDT reply actions  

Well...

… for one thing, Hendry has done a decent job in making trades. Maybe he can clean up this mess.

I don’t know. For one thing, if you want to replace him with someone for the long term, getting a new guy in midseason is difficult. Do you really want an interim GM?

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by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 7:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

seemed to work for Arizona last year

gave them a three month head start and they hired Kevn Towers right after the year. If you’ve determined Hendry’s not the guy, just do it now. I just don’t want Hendry around any part of this organization anymore. This is a baseball trainwreck.

by MikeJW on Jun 29, 2011 8:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

I dont understand how firing Hendry improves the play on the field...

I get Hendry has to go, i really do…but Hendry isnt out their whiffing at sliders, booting ground balls, dropping strikes to get runners out…

by epsilon on Jun 29, 2011 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

You don't fire a GM during the season to improve play on the field

Usually, if you’re a team firing a GM mid-season, the season is so far up you know what creek that there’s nothing that can be done to save it. Moves like that are usually a long time coming and are more aimed towards getting an early start. If this happened to Hendry during the season, it would be an admission from up top that not only are they rebuilding, they’re committed to a different sort of rebuilding. But that’s not going to happen this season.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
If you disagree with me in any way, you are wrong.

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2011 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

The only way...

…you can a GM mid-season, is if the guy you really want is available right now and you want him to get as much time analyzing what is going on so he can get a head start going into a crucial offseason.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2011 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't want Hendry around anymore either.

Yes it would be a cold business decision, but in a 4 year span he has had a strong influence on taking a 97 win team to a 100 loss team.

by Grockcubs on Jun 29, 2011 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I understand that.

But that team is gone. It is how you sustain success. Hendry has done a poor job of keeping a good baseball team together, especially having the financial resources he has had to work with.

by Grockcubs on Jun 29, 2011 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

other than DLee

that team is pretty much still on the field…sure we’ve replaced Theriot with Barney ( upgrade actually), De Rosa with Baker, Fontenot with Castro (upgrade again)….Ramirez and Soriano are old, Geo isnt performing like he can, Castro is doing great, Barney-meh we’ll see good job so far though, Pena-rough start great streak right now, Marlon byrd-meh he do what he do, Fukudome- meh.

by epsilon on Jun 29, 2011 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

No DeRosa

Fontenot, Theriot, Cedeno ( who actually played well) Edmonds, Lilly, Marquis, Harden. All players that contributed. Even Wuertz, who Lou hated was a better bullpen arm than half of the guys we have now.

by Grockcubs on Jun 29, 2011 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

cedeno...

we are at the point where we are looking back on Cedeno positively? i’ll give you it was a better pitching staff..but the offense is not really different other than our big bats were more so in their prime… although that was the 5 cubs had 20 home runs year right?

by epsilon on Jun 29, 2011 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd argue that letting most of those guys go was the CORRECT decision...

Harden has been terrible (and injured) since we traded him. Marquis was mediocre while he was here and has been fairly mediocre since he left. Lilly was decent in the second half for LA last year but has been bad this year. Fontenot, Theriot, and Cedeno have been bad ever since they left. Edmonds and DeRosa are the only guys among the hitters who has been better than their replacements. Wuertz was the only of those pitchers who I’d have liked to have kept too. I’d have liked to have gotten a better return for Lilly as well.

The bigger problem has been that the guys who we did keep in place (Soriano, Zambrano, Dempster, Soto, Ramirez, Fukudome, Lee) all aged very quickly. So keeping that 2008 team in place wouldn’t have resulted in sustained success anyway.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

I am not arguing about letting the guys go

my argument is who we replaced them with. Grabow, Milton, Miles, Scales and the like. Hendry failed there.

by Grockcubs on Jun 29, 2011 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

It sure seemed like you were arguing about letting the guys go...

Regardless, I think the bigger problems were:

1) several of those guys we let go had career years for us in 2008 (inflating their perceived value here), and
2) several of the guys we kept have gotten substantially worse

We replaced Theriot and Fontenot with Castro and Barney. That’s an upgrade. Grabow wasn’t a replacement for Wuertz (Samardzija was more applicable), but Wuertz wasn’t an integral part of the 2008 team anyway. And Scales was a backup, so he wasn’t relevant.

Getting Miles and Bradley to replace DeRosa and Edmonds was definitely a bad tradeoff. Getting Byrd to replace Bradley was an upgrade, but not a cure-all.

No argument from me that the team has been handled poorly though.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Isn't that the equivalent

of saying the President of a corporation empties the garbage real well?

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Jun 29, 2011 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Did you mean Dempster diving

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Jun 30, 2011 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Never fear Al!

The Cubs will win Thursday when we’re there and I’m going to try and pick up a bleacher seat for just me on Friday. (If you know anyone in your circle wanting to unload one, let me know).

So two wins guaranteed!

There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?

by Zeke on Jun 29, 2011 7:59 AM CDT reply actions  

Email me re: Friday.

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by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Al, it's gonna be 100 degrees

Friday might be the one day you want to be out of the bleachers.

by MikeJW on Jun 29, 2011 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Eh.

I don’t mind the heat. Have been freezing out there way too many times.

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by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

100 degrees. Sun. Beer. Sox & Cubs fans drinking heavily.

Zeke on site. What could go wrong????

There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?

by Zeke on Jun 29, 2011 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry Zeke.

But they are going to win tonight when I’m there. And if they stick to the pattern since the Yankee series they will lose the next two.

Fasten those seat belts...

by katie casey on Jun 29, 2011 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

There's $5 in it for you to stay home...

There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?

by Zeke on Jun 29, 2011 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

You know...

if I didn’t already have these tickets I’d be going to see the Chiefs in Milwaukee. Sad thing is…I’d be more excited if I was going to see the Chiefs than the Cubs tonight.

Fasten those seat belts...

by katie casey on Jun 29, 2011 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Byrd said he would be back

maybe Saturday, according to DM paper.

I thought Lopez pitched OK. Maybe we should send Davis far away.

We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.

by mrcubsfan on Jun 29, 2011 8:00 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

I just don't see any value in Lopez.

Davis, at least, has made a couple of decent starts.

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by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Davis has been the victim of

some terrible run support – 2.6 per 9 innings before yesterday…total of 17 runs in his 7 losses and 11 of those came in a 5 run game and yesterday…he isnt a bad 5th starter for this team…

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2011 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

No. Not for this team. But if you wanted a winning team, he needs to go.

He only averages 5 innings a game. He averages 5 walks per nine innings. He has a 6.5 era The league is batting .301 against him. He has a 1.86 whip. Isn’t there someone from the minors who they could at least be giving some experience, since winning doesn’t seem to be a priority here.

by Rick B on Jun 29, 2011 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well

If his numbers don’t scream out a very, very marginal MLB pitcher, then you’re missing something. He’s brutal….plain and simple. Don’t let his one start against the Yankees fool you. The league is hitting over .300 against him and he walks just about everyone else in the park. He’s not a winning major league pitcher by any metric.

"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder

by krummy12 on Jun 29, 2011 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

He is awful

I always looked forward to his starts against the Cubs when he played for the Brewers. But he is good filler for the current lousy situation the Cubs are in regarding pitching. Sometimes he apparently can even pitch a gem. But a good team does not want Davis IMO.

by adam316 on Jun 29, 2011 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

where did I say he was anything

but “not a bad 5th starter for this team”?

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2011 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think

he’d be a 5th starter on any major league team other than the Cubs. He’s worse than terrible. His WHIP is the highest in the NL for pitchers throwing over 40 innings.

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Jun 29, 2011 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

the Yankees

have thrown out some terrible starters this year…

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2011 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not true at all

The Yanks have had only 5 starts form 2 guys not in their starting rotation and one of them was Phil Hughes who had to go on the DL. The other was Gordon with 2 starts and a decent 1.45 WHIP. Who were you referring to?

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Jun 29, 2011 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

you are correct

(usually helps to check the stats) – apparently the Rothschild effect is in full effect – career years out of Garcia and Colon

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2011 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

You didn't

But my point is, any warm body is as good of an option as Davis as the 5th starter on one of the worst three teams in all of baseball. Hell, it employed an atrocious Casey Coleman in that role for a bit….even if it can be said he might have operated as a 4th starter…and managed to massage James Russell into that role as well. And I don’t buy for a minute that most of the Cubs minor-league arms “aren’t ready”. If you change that to “just aren’t very good either” then perhaps I would agree.

Yes, the Cubs are indeed this bad.

"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder

by krummy12 on Jun 29, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, the rotation is awful...

Garza is solid but hasn’t been great. Zambrano has been mediocre. Dempster has been below mediocre. Cashner has been hurt. Everyone else has been awful. And there’s no help on the way from the minors anytime soon.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Watching Doug Davis pitch

makes me want to cut myself. Seriously. He’s atrocious. I’d rather call up a kid from AA or AAA to take his starts the rest of the way, if we have anyone we can hand the ball to.

Garza and Zambrano have been fine – even better than that at times. Dempster is unpredictable, and the rest pretty much garbage.

I’m in Seattle this week watching the Braves and Mariners for 3 games. Talk about anemic offenses! Up and down the Mariners lineup, they have nobody you’d even consider pitching around in any situation. But guess what? Both teams are over .500 and in contention in their divisions…just like the Giants. Piching, Pitching, Pitching. Sign Cole Hamels and another decent FA, get corner infielders (either trade or FA) and you can contend again.

Scott Bora$ is satan.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jun 29, 2011 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Do you think the Cubs will reduce ticket prices next year?

At least as a show of good faith. And not by a paltry 3-5%. More like 15-20%. Fans really deserve a break. We’ve been suffering with these ridiculous contracts for years and we should get some payback.

"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse

by ronsanto10 on Jun 29, 2011 8:11 AM CDT reply actions  

HA!

are you new to capitalism?

by epsilon on Jun 29, 2011 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nope

The Cubs are still a business and need to make money.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
If you disagree with me in any way, you are wrong.

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2011 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just smart business sense.

When you have an inferior product to sell, you drop prices to move sales. Look at this year’s attendance (not the “announced” numbers, the physical bodies in the park).

"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse

by ronsanto10 on Jun 29, 2011 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right.

Not only that, I hear both here and from others that season ticket sales will plummet if prices aren’t cut by a significant amount.

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by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

As well they should.

Apparently the only way that we can convince Ricketts that this team needs a big overhaul will be to stop buying tickets. Maybe then he will learn his lesson.
Vote with your dollars.

by trogdar on Jun 29, 2011 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I always have thought

that this year’s ticket prices were more of an attempt to wring out every possible dollar from the ST holders and the waiting list than them believing it was that good of a team…still had pretty strong attendance figures for the game considering all of the whailing and gnashing of teeth about ticket prices…they did sell 27,000 tickets over ST levels and as you reported they had about 55,000 bodies in the stands today…

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2011 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Are you suggesting that there is evidence

of smart busininess sense in Tom Ricketts. He may be a good marketing manager but that’s his limit.

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Jun 29, 2011 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's amazing how Davis has beat everything he has faced in his life

but he cannot beat the Giants. All he had to do was get hitters out. I can’t tell you how many counts he had that he was ahead, even 0-2, and he gave up a hit or a walk. It’s pathetic.

by alabamacubbie on Jun 29, 2011 8:14 AM CDT reply actions  

That's Riggins philosophy.

Throw strikes. Get ahead and then walk them.

by Rick B on Jun 29, 2011 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hear bashing of Riggins

But does anyone have any proof that he isn’t a good pitching coach? Just curious.

by adam316 on Jun 29, 2011 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ok

Next question: Would you like to have Rothschild back?

by adam316 on Jun 29, 2011 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Rothschild for Riggins?

Yeah I think I could live with that.

by alabamacubbie on Jun 29, 2011 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

And if that trade is made.

Somehow I think the Yankee’s pitching would be the same or better….

by adam316 on Jun 29, 2011 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

MLB is thankful for this years' Cubs team.

For helping other teams stop their losing steaks and for lifting other teams’ poorer stats to better numbers. Thank you Chicago Cubs, without you, bad teams would continue to look bad.

by adam316 on Jun 29, 2011 8:15 AM CDT reply actions  

Best bad team that money could buy

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
If you disagree with me in any way, you are wrong.

by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2011 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Grabow

Is there more of a waste of money then this guy on the team? At least the other bloated contracts perform well from time to time.

"It's a funny old world. Man's lucky if he gets out of it alive." W.C. Fields

by KedzieKid on Jun 29, 2011 8:19 AM CDT reply actions  

You're right.

I’m sure he’s had one but I can’t remember one good performance from that guy.

by Rick B on Jun 29, 2011 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

My sources tell me Re: Jim Hendry

That Ricketts will stick with him during the rebuilding year(s) until he takes his shot again at building a WS champion team, meaning that Hendry will remain in his position until all of the current bad contracts and Soriano is gone and Hendry has basically a whole new team that he feels will be able to win it all. It is only after that point that Hendry will be fired if he fails. (By the way my “sources” are the voices in my head)

by adam316 on Jun 29, 2011 8:32 AM CDT reply actions  

Then shame on Ricketts.

So “according to sources” Hendry is with this franchise until at least 2014, wonderful. His time is over here. So a fresh face, new direction, new energy is not in the plans. Great.
 So just to make this clear again. Hendry stays until the bullshit contracts he signed clear the books. Great work if you can find it.

by Grockcubs on Jun 29, 2011 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Did you read the last sentence of his post?
(By the way my "sources" are the voices in my head)

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by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah sorry about that.

But I do really think that scenario is possible. Rickett’s has only shown strong support for Hendry in the public forum. And there is the little fact that there doesn’t appear to be any good GM candidates available currently.

by adam316 on Jun 29, 2011 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't buy the statement

“not any good GM candidates available” Cashmans contract runs out this year. If Ricketts wanted to get a better GM than Hendry he would make a serious offer to him.
 Also there has to be someone out there that is available that is better than Hendry. I do not follow front office free agents, but I can’t believe that someone could not do a better job than Hendry at this point.

by Grockcubs on Jun 29, 2011 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

No I am with you here

There has to be a better choice. I just get the impression that Ricketts is going to stick with Hendry and give him a good shot under his ownership to GETITDONE. I don’t like the idea either, but all you hear Rickett’s do is throw support behind Hendry. I can imagine Hendry has him convinced that he can get the job done now that ownership has changed and possibly Ricketts buys that. It is pure speculation on my part, but what more can you possibly glean from the support that Ricketts has stated time and time again for Hendry to the media?

by adam316 on Jun 29, 2011 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

an owner not throwing

his GM under the bus?

Also, Cashman has been reported to have said he wants to go somewhere to show that he can build a team without money…while the Cubs would be a great challenge to turn into a Yankees I think he may want someone more along the lines of a Tigers/Diamondbacks/Marlins/etc….

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2011 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

How can you put the Tigers and Marlins in the same line??

They were as high as 134M last year and still over 105M this year after having a ridiculous amount of money fall off the books.

Also, GM candidates could include Cashman, also Hahn and Cherington and there are others that could be good fits as well. Other legitimate sources have come out and said Hendry will not be around after this year, so let’s not overreact just yet.

by bdlugz on Jun 29, 2011 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was just throwing out a list of teams

that didnt include any of the NY, Chicago, LA teams…the mid-market teams as I strongly doubt he would actually want to goto a Florida or KC…

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

There are numerous available GMs

that should be available. Some now and more.beyond this season. If Ricketts retains Hendry after the season he’ll be digging himself a huge credibility hole that will take many years to fill.

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Jun 29, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ricketts...

…has already dug himself quite a hole to date. If he chooses status quo for another year, he will be setting the baseball organization back exponentially.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hope you are joking.

It wouldn’t be possible for me to just change teams like that. It is hard to watch the Cubs do what they have been doing, but I will keep on holding out for the prize. This still is always my team, good or bad.

by adam316 on Jun 29, 2011 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I moved to the perfect place...

Nashville doesnt have a MLB team so i dont have a “homer” to root for…like the Titans in football, I’m a bears fan but i root for the home team when they dont play each other…

by epsilon on Jun 29, 2011 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

my theory is that

as soon as I disown the Cubs they will win it all…then I would be a bandwagon jumper and I HATE ESPN…

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2011 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

If that is true.

Please feel free to disown the Cubs immediately. It is for the good of the team.

by adam316 on Jun 29, 2011 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just a horrible baseball team.

If Ricketts brings back the combo of Crane/Hendry back next year the fleeting confidence I have in him will disappear. The team that is assembled is a joke. The injury excuse is getting old. Reed was quoted in the paper about the injuries have hurt the team, enough. Mets are a perfect example that a team can play well when banged up.
 This roster/coaches need to be purged.

by Grockcubs on Jun 29, 2011 8:35 AM CDT reply actions  

Well...

…When the owner goes public about injuries being the problem, it sets the example for everyone else to do the same.

The Giants are without two of their best players and they are doing ok and so are several other teams that have been hit hard by the injury bug. It is really lame for anyone in a leadership position to use the injury card.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2011 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yankees are doing fine with their injuries.

Not a justifiable excuse for the Cubs.

"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse

by ronsanto10 on Jun 29, 2011 8:37 AM CDT reply actions  

So are the Cardinals.

So you’re right, it’s not a justifiable excuse.

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by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Eh, maybe

This month they:

1. Dropped 3 of 4 to the Giants at home
2. Were swept by MIL at Miller
3. Were swept by the Nats at home
4. Were swept by the Blue Jays at home

Sans Pujols they have the following series coming up:

3 @TB
6 games with Cin
4 with Arizona

If Milwaukee plays to their potential the Cards could very well be 8 games out by the time Pujols returns

by Danwood on Jun 29, 2011 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

and this is the franchise

that has had Pujols forever and couldnt work out a contract extension…

they are in for some dark times…

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2011 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Blah.

Out of comments.

R.I.P. to my grandfather, Andrew Wiley
The reason I am a Cub fan forever

by Unique on Jun 29, 2011 8:48 AM CDT reply actions  

Give credit where it is due...

Russell and Shark with good outings.

never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...

by wrigleyrocker12 on Jun 29, 2011 8:57 AM CDT reply actions  

The worst offense in the league tee'd off on us... well... Davis and Lopez

Hopefully they have interest in some of our bats: Pena, Soto, Fukudome.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Jun 29, 2011 9:00 AM CDT reply actions  

Ugh.

Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.

by mikegncb34 on Jun 29, 2011 9:09 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Interesting read here about A potential Hendry demise

Apparently Tom’s “sources” believe Ricketts will dump Hendry after the season and go after the White Sox assistant GM.
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/cubs-insider/2011/06/sources-say-expect-change-at-gm-for-cubs.html

"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL

by HotDogDude on Jun 29, 2011 9:13 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

My bad sorry...

"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL

by HotDogDude on Jun 29, 2011 9:40 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Thanks for that.

This is the first I have even heard anyone claim to have knowledge that Hendry will be gone.

by adam316 on Jun 29, 2011 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually, Sullivan and Rogers have both had recent pieces in the Trib stating that Hendry is a "lame-duck' GM

not exactly saying he’ll be replaced, but being a lame-duck GM isn’t exactly a good position for Hendry

by magicblue on Jun 29, 2011 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

For what purpose??

People keep clamoring for Hendry to be fired today, but it does more harm than good. If you fire him now, you’ll be replacing him with Hendry-lite in Bush, and you’ll be hindering any good that Hendry might have done. It will also create some issues in draft signings and the IFA period that is coming up in two days.

You want to get a long term GM after this year, and people like Hahn, Cherington, Beane, Cashman, etc are not going to be available tomorrow, no matter how hard you hope or wish. Learn to live with the fact that Hendry will be GM until October and then all signs point to him being gone.

by bdlugz on Jun 29, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bush can go too

Do you really want someone who will not be here making the trades?
That is really stupid.

Its going to be a sad day for you when they FINALLY clean house.

by TJ11 on Jun 29, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

seriously

fire the entire front office, RIGHT NOW?

bd is making a valid point that if you fire Hendry you have Bush in charge which, as he said, is Hendry without the positives.

Any GM candidate is eyeing the Cubs right now and salivatingat what will come at the end of the season.

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2011 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

OMG

Bite your tongue

"For the charming if somewhat curious branch of mankind known as Cub fans, spring is a sanguine time.. Every spring holds the blithe hope that perhaps this is the season in which Satan will grow weary and ease up on the headlock in which he has diabolically held Chicago's mightily struggling National League baseball team since 1908..." Lonnie Wheeler- "Bleachers"

by tommy veryzer on Jun 29, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fire Hendry right now

just to let people know that the situation the Cubs are in is totally unacceptable. Ricketts needs to send a message now. He needs to let everybody know that people will be held accountable. The situation on the field is that dire right now. That’s exactly what I would do. This will give him a three month head start to look around and not have to answer anymore questions about Hendry.

by MikeJW on Jun 29, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

And then Randy Bush is your GM until the end of the year... Who is Hendry lite without all of the connections

Have fun signing those international free agents, your draft picks and trading away your players at the deadline!!

by bdlugz on Jun 29, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Go into witness protection

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Jun 29, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd let Hendry finish the season

but let him know that he’s gone at the end of the season, if he wants to pad his resume well here’s the trade deadline make it work, or if he wants to quit, okay bye.

by epsilon on Jun 29, 2011 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

oh agreed...

but i think replacing him mid season with no heir apparent for the long term job serves no purpose…

by epsilon on Jun 29, 2011 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

but Ricketts

needs a 3 month head start when everyone and there mother is expecting Hendry to be toast after this season

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you have decided on replacements, yes

The restructuring will begin with this year’s trade moves. Why let a lame duck do it?

by ClarkFan on Jun 30, 2011 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

And

So can Tim Wilken. Medicrity personified…at best.

"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder

by krummy12 on Jun 29, 2011 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

isnt it pretty common knowledge around here

that Tim Wilken turned the Minor leagues around? what about him is mediocre?

by epsilon on Jun 29, 2011 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Turned the minor leagues around?

Seriously? Wilken’s drafts have been ho-hum and nothing more. Every scouting director is going to have guys knock on the door at the major league level. Which of Wilken’s superior selections are making a difference for the Cubs? Even better, which of them will make a significant difference in the next three years? The answer to both is simple…not many.

"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder

by krummy12 on Jun 29, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

but define not many...

one? two? Three? the nationals have two potentially elite players in the minors because they sucked for so long. the draft is literally a crap shoot with some information that may or not be of value….who is to say that bryce harper gets up to the bigs and just starts mashing? his attitude may get him a fastball in the face some day and ruin his career…who the crap knows…wilken’s got potential in our system for the first time in a while….thats all you can draft is potential.

by epsilon on Jun 29, 2011 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

really the only way

to build a minor league system that sooo many on here want is to suck monkey balls for 10 years and stockpile TONS of top 5 draft picks.

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2011 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not really.

Just doing a quick google search, I see teams like the Braves, Yankees, and Phillies with high system rankings. Those teams have been WAAAAYYYY better than the Cubs.

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jun 29, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Before the Garza trade

the Cubs were ranked 8th which puts them 3 behind the Yanks and 3 ahead of the Phillies – the top 2 teams are the Rays and Royals – Braves are a franchise I wouldnt mind emulating as they have done the right thing for DECADES – and the Yankees show the power of spending dollars on the minor league system

Looking at BA’s pre-season rankings (and putting the Cubs back at 8th) they had the
Reds ahead of us (last winning season before last year was 2000 and last playoff appearance was 1995)
Indians (similar record and post-season appearances since 2000 as the Cubs which is good for 7th on the list)
Blue Jays (quite a few seasons above .500 but last playoff appearance was 1993 – also Wilken used to be director there)

and then the Royals, Rays, Braves and Yankees. Basically it is a mixed bag…you can either 1. Suck for a decade, 2. Spend tons of money on the minor leagues (which we are doing) or 3. have Tim Wilken (which we do)

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2011 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

There's been a lot of talk about spending a ton on the minors.

There hasn’t, unfortunately, been a ton of spending on the minors. I’ll wait until I see what the draft budget is for this year (it was low last year) and see what kind of money the Cubs spend internationally before claiming they’re spending “tons” of money on the minors.

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jun 29, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

the Cubs did spend

decently last year in bonuses, did well in the IFA, are building a new academy in the Carribean, getting new facilities in Arizona, have comitted to Camp Colvin…

It will be more telling what minor league spending does as the major league payroll comes down…now if they spend the same next year with $20 million less on the books then I will be getting worried. I also would like to see them build a few baseball academies in the Far East.

For all the talk of people wanting Hahn in here the White Sox are 28th in the minor league rankings.

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Cubs were below average in handing out cash in the draft.

We’re still waiting to see how things work out with the Caribbean academy.

The major league payroll has come down already this year from last. We should be seeing the difference you’re expecting this year as well as next.

At this point, I disregard almost everything that comes out of Tom Ricketts mouth. Oftentimes, he’s either wrong, lying, or both. I need to see these changes made, not just lip service.

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jun 29, 2011 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

whats the fan base like in Toronto?

you dont ever really hear much about it, but the Expos couldnt hold on to a team, the Blue Jays havent been to the playoffs since 93, they’ve competed some but as a whole how do they man relevant as a franchise?

by epsilon on Jun 29, 2011 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I dunno, they just seem to get it done.

Espn.com has them 25th in attendance, obviously not good, but there are worse situations.

The Skydome is a dump, though.

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jun 29, 2011 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

He got the system from "absolutely awful" (thank, Jim) to OK but still not that good

But still not that good, really, In particular, when 2 guys in the rotation went down, the team wound up searching dumpsters for older castoffs. Most systems have 1 or 2 pitchers good enough to step up and do a reasonable job for a few turns.

by ClarkFan on Jun 30, 2011 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wilken is one of the lone positives of our organization

Since the first Wilken draft in 2006, the Cubs first round success rate has been through the roof in a totally unprecedented manner. When Wilken was in charge in Toronto, he sent 11 consecutive 1st round picks to the majors (including Alex Rios, Shannon Stewart, Roy Halladay and Vernon Wells). And, he’s currently on pace to do something similar here in Chicago.

Colvin and Cashner have already been to the bigs, and have made impacts. Flaherty and Jackson are due up soon. Vitters still has a ways to go, but isn’t in bust status. Simpson was set back by mono, and Donaldson was traded in the Rich Harden deal (good use of a supplemental pick), and he had a couple cups of coffee in Oakland.

Before this month’s draft, these were Wilken’s first seven #1 picks for the Cubs.

2010 1st – Hayden Simpson
    2009 1st – Brett Jackson
    2008 1st – Andrew Cashner
    2008 1st – (s) Ryan Flaherty
    2007 1st – Josh Vitters
    2007 1st – (s) Josh Donaldson
    2006 1st – Tyler Colvin

Now, compare that with the previous six #1 picks before he arrived. It’s like night and day. None of these players… I repeat NONE of them, ever reached the majors.

2005 1st – Mark Pawelek
    2003 1st – Ryan Harvey
    2002 1st – Bobby Brownlie
    2002 1st – (s) Luke Hagerty
    2002 1st – (s) Chadd Blasko
    2002 1st – (s) Matt Clanton

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Jun 29, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Crazy

There isn’t one sure-fire All-Star on that entire list. Jackson is possibly a very solid regular…but he’s not even guaranteed to be an above-average hitter at the major league level. Comparing them to the garbage from 2002-2005 really only seperates the factor of time.

I wouldn’t count on that list of 2006-2010 guys to lead this orgnaization out of its current depth. They may help, they may not…but to consider that to be a windfall points out to the real level of futility this organization is at right now.

"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder

by krummy12 on Jun 29, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Crazy, the Cubs have picked above 16 ONCE in the last 5 years.

Why the hell can’t they find more sure fire all-stars at 17-30??? It should be easy because Krummy wants it!!!

by bdlugz on Jun 29, 2011 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

literally...

i have never heard of these guys before joining BCB…

2005 1st – Mark Pawelek
    2003 1st – Ryan Harvey
    2002 1st – Bobby Brownlie
    2002 1st – (s) Luke Hagerty
    2002 1st – (s) Chadd Blasko
    2002 1st – (s) Matt Clanton

by epsilon on Jun 29, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wilken is a huge upgrade for sure...

There are still a lot of question marks there, but at least Colvin and Cashner have already made the majors, and Jackson, Flaherty, and Vitters have been at least decent in AA.

We did draft Patterson, Prior, Garland, and Wood from 1995-2001, so there’s a bit of cherry-picking there. Cashner, Colvin, Flaherty, and Jackson were much lower picks than Wood, Patterson, and Prior. But those guys were definitely successful picks (Patterson hasn’t become a star, but he’s had a few solid MLB seasons and been an MLB regular for several years).

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's hard to cherry-pick the six picks in a row before Wilken

It is what it is…

And the picks you mentioned are a few of the lone bright spots in Cubs 1st round history. The list is absolutely disgusting. The best two picks they ever made, Joe Carter and Rafael Palmeiro, went on to have tremendous careers in different uniforms. Shawon Dunston, Kerry Wood, and Mark Prior would prob round out the top 5.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Jun 29, 2011 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not claiming your opinion of Wilken is wrong

But just because the Cubs have improved their drafting doesn’t necessarily mean it’s at an acceptable level.

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jun 29, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

No disagreement there...

Just saying that your list seemed to conveniently neglect the 2001 draft, which included Prior. You compare seven picks with Wilken to six picks prior to Wilken. Adding the seventh prior to Wilken puts Prior on the list.

The organization obviously has a terrible history in the first round. Wilken’s drafts SEEM to be an improvement, but in a few years they could very easily look very similar to our past drafts. Hopefully that’s not the case.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL @ TJ!!!!

That’s what you’d say, correct? Seriously, fire the ENTIRE front office on June 29th?? In the middle of draft signings? As the international FA period starts? Fire everyone that has to do with this current front office

Yeah.. THAT’S going to happen.

Yeah.. THAT’S going to happen.

Its going to be a sad day for you when they FINALLY clean house.

Yeah.. THAT’S going to happen.

Its going to be a sad day for you when they FINALLY clean house.
Stop acting like an idiot – not only have I said Hendry needs to be fired after this year, I’ve been in discussions here regarding possible replacement GMs. You acting like a 10 year old when you don’t have anything to add really needs to be put to an end.

by bdlugz on Jun 29, 2011 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sullivan and Rogers are lame duck columnists.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Jun 29, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

After today's game

The Cubs will hit the halfway mark either 17 or 15 games under .500

I hope that’s enough of a track record for Jimbo to start picking up his phone and dumping any player he can for either salary relief or decent prospects to eat the salary. The money is spent, it wasn’t spent wisely. Let’s hope they can at least get some value out of this season in the form of prospects.

by ScottT on Jun 29, 2011 9:30 AM CDT reply actions  

Right...

it was clear to at least half the people here that the season was lost about 6 weeks ago.

I know trades aren’t done in May for the most part and Jimbo was just playing good employee, but the time has definitely come.
Cubs MUST be sellers.
Of course, genius Jim has structured the contracts in such a way that they’re going to be hard to move or the team will have to eat a ton of salary. Like I say, the money is spent, same as it was on Opening Day. So, eat the money and get better prospects.

by ScottT on Jun 29, 2011 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't expect any decent prospects for our guys...

Among the guys who could even be considered tradeable, only Marmol and Pena have any real trade value right now. Fukudome is starting to tank and is a fringe starter on a good team. Byrd is a 4th OF/fringe starter if he’s playing for a good team. Ramirez hasn’t hit well this year and has his option year would likely have to be kicked in if he accepted a trade. None of our starting pitchers have any value to offer.

Any deals at this point would be salary dumps – and wouldn’t likely be complete salary dumps either.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I doubt Byrd would be a fringe player for the Red Sox

Their outfield production of Drew and Cameron has been atrocious, and Byrd provides good defense and a reliable bat.

Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.

by IowaCubs- on Jun 29, 2011 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

But there will be better alternatives for a corner OF...

Cameron and Drew provide as much value defensively in RF. So if the Red Sox decide to trade for another RF, they can probably find a better option than Byrd. Byrd’s only real value has been that he can play an adequate defensive CF. That’s not a need for the Red Sox. As a corner OF, his bat isn’t good enough. There will be better options out there for the Red Sox.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

The only players...

…I wouldn’t shop to see what you could get are; Castro and possibly Soto. Castro for obvious reasons and Soto because it is so damn hard to find a decent catcher.

Everyone else should be fair game and if it makes sense, you move as much of the baggage as you can.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jun 29, 2011 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Also you don't shop Soto because you'd be crazy to sell low on him.

If Hendry does he should be crucified – regardless of how many here might be pushing to see what we can get for him.

by bdlugz on Jun 29, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's nonsense

Soto is exactly the type player many GMs think will always play like he does in even numbered years. They’ll try to get a bargain but we should have a number of them bidding against each other in hopes the Soto they get will be a 145 game catcher who contends for the All Star game every year. Ask yourself…Will Soto make this team a winner or is he just a decent catcher on a terrible team?

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Jun 29, 2011 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well

He’s a decent hitter that happens to catch…generally pretty nondescriptly unless he’s trying to avoid catching balls on plays at the plate. Other than that, he’s ho hum.

"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder

by krummy12 on Jun 29, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

It seems that the perception of Soto

one of the player we saw in his rookie year. A good GM like Hendry should be able to sell the sizzle and get decent return. Hell, Jim has been overpaying for those type guys for years. Surely we don’t have the only incapable GM in the majors.

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Jun 29, 2011 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good call...

Tons of teams will line up to overbid for a guy they’re trying to buy low on since there’s a ton of interest!!!

As you said… that’s nonsense. Your perceptions of Soto are way off.

by bdlugz on Jun 29, 2011 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think Soto's best years at the plate are behind him

And, he spends a stint or two on the DL every year. I would’ve love to deal him… and I especially see a short term need in San Fran.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Jun 29, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed...

I’m just saying that we shouldn’t expect good prospects in return.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

We should be focusing on trading positions of strength

That would be OF and Catcher.

We’ve got two OF prospects ready to step in right now in B Jackson and T Colvin. Then, in the second half of 2012, we could see Matt Sczcur. If Soto was traded, Wellington Castillo would be promoted to stay.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Jun 29, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

But...

If Soto goes, I have a feeling that we would get a nice dose of Hill before Castillo becomes the starter. And I don’t think I can stand watching that.

by trogdar on Jun 29, 2011 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Eh... who cares. This team sucks anyway.

Point was… we have depth there, and can promote good talent to fill vacancies. Steve Clevenger is also a good looking prospect, who could get promoted to fill Castillo’s spot in AAA.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Jun 29, 2011 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

what couldn't you stand?

Soto: 42/189 22 7 18 0 .222
Hill: 18/81 12 2 8 0 .222

the Near identical numbers?

by epsilon on Jun 29, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Way to cherry pick those stats...

Soto’s career OPS: .817. Soto’s OPS last year: .890. Soto’s OPS this year: .724.
Hill’s career OPS: .585. Hill’s OPS last year: .552. Hill’s OPS this year: .647.

The fact that they have an identical batting average in half a season ignores the fact that Soto has consistently been the better offensive player (including this year).

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

that's kind of my point...

whats so terrible about watching koyie hill play**THIS YEAR*** if we get something decent from a Soto Trade….

by epsilon on Jun 29, 2011 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Because Koyie Hill is terrible THIS YEAR...

Soto has not been terrible this year. His OPS since May is over 100 points higher than Hill’s OPS. Hill, as an everyday offensive player, is really terrible. Soto, as an everyday catcher, has not been terrible this year (he’s even been above average) even despite having such a low average.

It’d also be terrible because there’s no value in starting Hill as the regular catcher in a lost season. If we trade Soto, the point is to see if Castillo is ready. Playing Hill everyday doesn’t do us any good.

Don’t get me wrong – if we got a good return for Soto, I’d be fine with trading him. In that scenario, though, I’d rather see Castillo get the call to try to be an everyday catcher and see if he can do it. He’s been in AAA for parts of two seasons now, so he’s ready to get a look.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

ok fair point

my point for hill was that this team is terrible and not going anywhere, and HIll is the last thing we should worry about being able to stand….sure give castillo the everyday job, but if hill plays its not the end of the world…

by epsilon on Jun 29, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, playing Hill certainly won't kill an already dead season...

but there’s basically no value in playing Hill. This team should either keep Soto or start Castillo. In neither scenario does it make sense to start Hill, because you know he’s only a serviceable backup catcher.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jackson isn't ready to go right now...

Jackson had a hand/wrist injury in May, and since then he’s been hitting around .200. I think he’ll eventually be ready, but he’s not ready right now.

I agree that Colvin should be playing everyday.

Also, I really don’t think Szczur will be ready by 2012. He MIGHT a 2013 guy, if he makes it. Counting on guys who are still in low-A ball is a bad strategy.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Jackson is playing through that injury/recovery

But, in terms of maturity… he’s ready. You just want him to be healthy when he gets here, so he has confidence.

I agree that Szczur projects more toward opening day 2013, but he could make an appearance in July/August/Sept 2012. He’ll surely be in Tennessee next year.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Jun 29, 2011 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think both Jackson and Szczur are debatable...

Jackson has just been decent at AA. Hopefully he’ll be ready when he’s healthy, but I wouldn’t say that with nearly as much confidence. Especially now with a hand injury. After Nomar and DLee, I’m never confident people will recover fully from hand injuries.

I think Szczur is more like a mid/late-2013 guy. Assuming he’ll mow through A+, AA, and AAA in 1.5 years is optimistic. It’s a question of whether he continues to excel when he hits A+ and then AA ball, and whether or not the team decides to have him skip AAA. Most of our prospects have spent time at AAA before reaching the majors (Castro and LeMahieu are exceptions of course).

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Casey Coleman

I watched him pitch yesterday against the Dodgers AAA affiliate, the Albuquerque Isotopes. He pitched reasonably well, regularly touching 93 on the radar gun, walking only one with 7 hits and 3ER in 7 innings.

Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.

by IowaCubs- on Jun 29, 2011 9:55 AM CDT reply actions  

I still think Coleman could be a productive #5 starter in the majors

He just needs to get some consistency.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Jun 29, 2011 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Definition of a No. 5

Generally includes a lack of consistency. Unless that 5th starter happens to be an aberration like on a Braves staff of the 90’s or a Phillies staff that is completely heatlhy right now. Coleman is as likely batting practice fodder as he is 5th starter….even on a Cubs team staring 95 losses in the face.

"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder

by krummy12 on Jun 29, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

93?

I don’t think he’s thrown 93 in any major league game I have seen.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

4th-5th starters

have just been horrible…and our top 4 are no sure things either. gotta be an indictment of GM, just like a few years ago when Derrick Lee went down and Todd Walker was only/best option to replace at 1B. gotta have some depth in minors…

wonder if the pitching coach returns? not all his fault but to have the worst ERA in NL and keep getting pounded by offensively challenged teams is embarrassing.

by QuincyCub on Jun 29, 2011 10:14 AM CDT reply actions  

These games were awful

then again, most of this season has been awful.

by cubman987 on Jun 29, 2011 11:21 AM CDT reply actions  

Torres was safe whether Geo held the ball or not...

but how can we let four more runs in with 2 out and nobody on. I’m glad there was no Jumbotron to watch that mess on.

by JG23 on Jun 29, 2011 12:38 PM CDT reply actions  

Regarding the mess that is the Cubs' front office

Charley Cheswick said it best – “I WANT SOMETHING DONE!!!”

by EalyEagle on Jun 29, 2011 12:50 PM CDT reply actions  

nyuk nyuk nyuk

Blake "The Franchise" DeWitt will lead us to the promised land

by jesus christos on Jun 29, 2011 12:56 PM CDT reply actions  

Does anyone have any confidence in Hendry to trade for prospects......

who will actually pan out as productive major leaguers? In his near decade as GM, has Hendry ever obtained a minor league prospect in a trade who has become a productive major league player? He must have——I just can’t think of any.

So when calling for the truck to be backed up, remember the guy making the trades does not exactly have an stellar record in identifying and obtaining real major league prospects in return.

by perseman on Jun 29, 2011 12:58 PM CDT reply actions  

I was looking at Hendry's track record earlier...

I think his record shows that he was pretty good at swinging deals to get major-league ready talent (the Ramirez/Lofton deal was huge, Choi for DLee) Hendry doensn’t really have a track record of trading for prospects b/c as a big-market team, the Cubs are usually looking for major-league ready players.

by JG23 on Jun 29, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

To clarify...

heavy emphasis on WAS, I’m not sure if he’s forgotten how or if he was lucky in the past to deal with two desperate, non-contenders.

by JG23 on Jun 29, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok...time for me to ruffle some feathers...you out there elgato?...

Someone needs to let Kerry Wood know that you don’t get the time it takes for a Tommy John surgery to recover from a blister. Really? A set-back? From a blister? Gee, I hope he survives. This pitching staff sucks right now and it’d be nice if we had our RH set-up guy back in the bullpen. >facepalms<

With the 1st pick in the 2012 Baseball Amateur Draft, the Chicago Cubs select...

by Easy Ed on Jun 29, 2011 1:09 PM CDT reply actions  

Hey, Ed...

… we know you have a bug up your ass about Kerry Wood.

It DOES take time to come back from a blister and pitch a major league fastball.

He has been out for three weeks. TJ surgery takes… about 18 months.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I was being sarcastic, Al...

he’s milked this blister thing long enough, wouldn’t ya think?

With the 1st pick in the 2012 Baseball Amateur Draft, the Chicago Cubs select...

by Easy Ed on Jun 29, 2011 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Milked how?

You think he doesn’t want to play?

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jun 29, 2011 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you were on this team...

would you want to play?

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 29, 2011 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

If I was only asked to pitch two innings a week?

Sure.

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jun 29, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

2 innings a week...

is apparently too much for Kid K. He gets a boo boo.

With the 1st pick in the 2012 Baseball Amateur Draft, the Chicago Cubs select...

by Easy Ed on Jun 29, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ah...a Wood lover...

if he signs ANY contract after this year he’ll be over-payed. What is there, 350 pitchers in MLB? I wonder how many are on the DL for a f’n blister?

With the 1st pick in the 2012 Baseball Amateur Draft, the Chicago Cubs select...

by Easy Ed on Jun 29, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not a Wood lover (TWSS)

But when you’re paying 4.8 million for John Grabow, 1.5 million for Kerry Wood is quite the steal. Perhaps he comes back next year, perhaps he doesn’t. I’m not going to launch some conspiracy theory that the lame duck GM has promised him some big haul after this year, though.

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jun 29, 2011 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

With all the horrible players on this years roster

Kerry is the one you are hating on? He’s small potatoes compared to the rest of this team. He’s a bullpen guy making 1.5 mill.

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 29, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

If they take a month?...Yep

With the 1st pick in the 2012 Baseball Amateur Draft, the Chicago Cubs select...

by Easy Ed on Jun 29, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

But does Kerry coming back

improve the team much? I don’t think so.

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 29, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

What exactly is your point?

I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers

by Nunyabidness on Jun 29, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

That if he's complaining about Kerry taking so long

Which is a problem. But even Kerry perfectly healthy doesn’t solve this mess of a teams problems. To me there are so many more important reasons why this team sucks. It’d be like starting up the Koyie Hill discussion. He’s a back up catcher…. a bad one but just a back up catcher.

Kerry is an ok reliever who makes 1.5 mill, him being on DL or not isn’t something in the top 10 things that are wrong with the Cubs this year.

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 29, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Except that Wood isn't the equivalent of Hill

He’s closer to the equivalent of Aram, if Aram was sitting on the DL with a bruised toe for three weeks.

Wood was brought in here as the 8th inning guy, not as the mop-up, David Patton guy. Yes there are OTHER problems but this argument that there are OTHER problems is ridiculous.

He’s a member of the team, he was actually considered a pretty vital member of the team before the season went down the crapper. I’m not as angry as Ed is (Ed has a very weird fixation with some conspiracy theories about Wood) but it’s just such an incredibly weak argument to say “it doesn’t matter.” that a guy is out.

I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers

by Nunyabidness on Jun 29, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

true

It’s matters but how much? Is it in your top 10 things wrong with the Cubs? He is fixated with something that if it was the worst problem or even the top 3. That would mean the Cubs were likely in contention.

Really you think Wood and Aram should be put in the sentence? I would FAR more worried about Aram being injured for a month.

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 29, 2011 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, as much as I think Kerry Wood is the most over-rated Cub in history...

I’d disagree with you, MCF. He is a better option than what’s in the bullpen other than Marmol and Marshall. He’s a “China Doll”. He’s on the DL again for what…the 15th time in his career…or somewhere close?

With the 1st pick in the 2012 Baseball Amateur Draft, the Chicago Cubs select...

by Easy Ed on Jun 29, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

but you know that is part of the package

signing him. Kerry staying healthy for a whole season is like Z not having an outburst.

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 29, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

And that's why he shouldn't have been signed...

his dependability is crap. Hopefully the new GM sees that.

With the 1st pick in the 2012 Baseball Amateur Draft, the Chicago Cubs select...

by Easy Ed on Jun 29, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

again on my list of top 10 things JH

signings went bad. It also won’t appear.

If Kerry as the player he is at this point in his career is one of the Cubs biggest problems…

I’d be doing summersaults.

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 29, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

ya, you know

the leadership he brings, the experience he brings, the value when he is healthy that he brings all mean jack diddly squat…DAMN HENDRY FOR PAYING HIM $1.5 Million…

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

With the 1st pick in the 2012 Baseball Amateur Draft, the Chicago Cubs select...

by Easy Ed on Jun 29, 2011 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Point to me please

where his “leadership” has come into play this season.

Again, this is a weak, weak counterpoint.

I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers

by Nunyabidness on Jun 29, 2011 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

sorry

I guess I dont have a stat for leadership, but I guess if we had Ryno our team would be leading in the GUTS+ stat category

by hansman1982 on Jun 29, 2011 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thank you.

For people who make fun of pitchers who have blisters, this is absolutely correct.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

Rec

We'll all miss you Ron.

by alkappy on Jun 29, 2011 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

of all the things one can bitch about this team...

Blake "The Franchise" DeWitt will lead us to the promised land

by jesus christos on Jun 29, 2011 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Needs more Franchise hate.

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jun 29, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, let's see...

people are bitchin’ about Rodrigo Lopez…ever wonder why he’s even on the roster? Oh, maybe because Wood is on the DL…again?

With the 1st pick in the 2012 Baseball Amateur Draft, the Chicago Cubs select...

by Easy Ed on Jun 29, 2011 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

So Wood was going to start the second game of yesterday's double header?

Al was going to get his wish?

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jun 29, 2011 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

i personally blame RoLo's mother

Blake "The Franchise" DeWitt will lead us to the promised land

by jesus christos on Jun 29, 2011 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

King James

Blake "The Franchise" DeWitt will lead us to the promised land

by jesus christos on Jun 29, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's NOT healthy...that's my point...

his lack of dependability has always been his main fault. Hopefully the next GM recognizes that…and passes.

As far as who else coulda started…maybe Shark starts.

With the 1st pick in the 2012 Baseball Amateur Draft, the Chicago Cubs select...

by Easy Ed on Jun 29, 2011 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Shark?

That’d be another James Russell scenario.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Shark is a helluva lot better choice than a Lopez or Davis.

Every start that ISN’T made by Demp, Z or Garza, is a James Russell scenario. Wells, Lopez, Davis are all pretty bad pitchers. I prefer to release Davis and Lopez and let Wells and Coleman stay in the rotation. The season is in the tank anyway.

With the 1st pick in the 2012 Baseball Amateur Draft, the Chicago Cubs select...

by Easy Ed on Jun 29, 2011 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Davis has been released.

Barney activated today.

I hope this means Coleman gets recalled. I don’t want any more starts from Lopez.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jun 29, 2011 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Didn't we also call up Mateo and send DJ down?

It appears there won’t be another move right now.

I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers

by Nunyabidness on Jun 29, 2011 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

A move doesn't have to be made...

but getting rid of our 5th starter opens the question as to whether we’d call up a replacement or go with a bullpen guy like Lopez. Calling up Coleman would mean Lopez would likely be let go too.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really?

I missed that announcement. Cool. That’s a good thing.

With the 1st pick in the 2012 Baseball Amateur Draft, the Chicago Cubs select...

by Easy Ed on Jun 29, 2011 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Except that Samardzija hasn't been stretched out and only has 1.5 pitches...

At least Lopez and Davis could theoretically throw 100+ pitches in a game right now without their arms falling off.

Samardzija might be a better choice if he was stretched out, but not right now.

Ultimately, I think Coleman is a younger version of Davis/Lopez. But I agree – let him come in and pitch and prove it one way or the other rather than throwing out retreads in a lost season.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Coleman hasn't shown much so far

are there any other candidates with some actual upside rather than a poop-armed junkballer like Coleman?

"Go Cubs!"

by Itchy on Jun 29, 2011 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not soon...

I agree that Coleman doesn’t seem to offer all that much. But there aren’t any real starting pitching prospects in AAA, and none of the guys at AA look remotely ready.

by SouthernCub on Jun 29, 2011 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Does anyone think...

that Bochy picked Quade for his all star game coaching staff to avoid having to actually stick an undeserving Cubs player on the team? Just kidding…I think.

by BeltwayCubsFan on Jun 29, 2011 2:03 PM CDT reply actions  

Lineup

Cubs lineup for Wed: RF Fuke, 2B Barney, SS Castro, 1B Pena, 3B DeWitt, LF Soriano, CF Johnson, C Soto, P Dempster

No Aramis? Sit Dewitt!

"Go Cubs!"

by Itchy on Jun 29, 2011 3:34 PM CDT reply actions  

DeWitt 6 for 15 against Lincecum

Aramis 3 for 15.

We'll all miss you Ron.

by alkappy on Jun 29, 2011 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Those three hits better make a huge difference

Considering how hot Aram has been.

But Q always send the best line up out against great teams!!!!!!!!

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 29, 2011 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Plus DeWitt sucks.

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jun 29, 2011 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thought provoking hypothetical...

Boston just decided to start Ortiz at First and put Gonzales in right…. any chance Pena can play Right field? there’s some corner power for you if we get Fielder and put Pena in right….just thinking outloud.

by epsilon on Jun 29, 2011 3:43 PM CDT reply actions  

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