2 interesting notes from Phil Rogers column
Phil Rogers Whispers
The Cubs are hoping they can develop their own Prince Fielder in Florida high school first baseman Dan Vogelbach, whom they selected in the second round of the draft. Scouting director Tim Wilken normally likes ultra-athletic players, but he fell in love with the 5-foot-11, 240-pounder's big-time power and was impressed that he dropped about 40 pounds from his junior to senior year. Sources indicate the Cubs are finalizing his signing, which could be for almost $1 million more than the slot recommendation. He has committed to the University to Florida.Now I find this interesting in light of all the criticism of the Cubs last year being so cheap with their signing bonuses to their draft choices. Combine this with the money they put out for Zeke DeVoss and the money it looks like they will have to put out for their other draft picks, it looks like Ricketts really has loosened the purse strings to try to restock the system
The Cubs almost certainly will talk to Pat Gillick about his interest in taking on one more challenge next winter. He's not interested in being a GM but would be a terrific addition if Chairman Tom Ricketts changed his mind about having an experienced baseball/pro sports guy between him and his GM in the chain of command. …This is indeed a good thing. Gillick will put that professional Baseball man in place that the team has needed for a long tome to help steer whoever is the GM.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Excellent news on both fronts.
R.I.P. to my grandfather, Andrew Wiley
The reason I am a Cub fan forever
Pat Gillick
would be my preference for the ‘Crane Kenney’ position.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
yes, absolutely that would be a great move.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Jul 16, 2011 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know
I would like to add Gillick for sure, but I’m not sure if it’s in place of Kenney. Gillick is a baseball guy and Kenney is a business guy. I could see how the two of them could be happy in the same organization.
by jerry morales rules on Jul 17, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
How do you know Kenney is making baseball decisions?
Serious question.
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As president, he should be Hendry's boss - that would inidcate the stay/go decision is his
Even if that is it, that’s a big deal.
I would imagine the hiring/firing of the baseball GM isn't solely up to Kenney
Tom Ricketts would have to be involved in that, too. JMO.
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He's part of the problem.
He’s the president of the team, and they’re losing.
So wait.
You have gone on record as saying Jim Hendry is doing a good job. Wouldn’t that qualify him for the same “he’s part of the problem” statement?
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It's his take on "TJing"
He’s convinced that anyone who is critical is saying the team is doomed for all eternity, and this is his way of mocking it.
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 18, 2011 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I don't understand why anyone would want to do that...
most of us don’t really enjoy what TJ is doing. I don’t see why you’d want to intentionally recreate something that nearly everyone doesn’t like.
by SouthernCub on Jul 18, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Because he doesn't know how to disagree without being disagreeable
Any time someone criticizes any aspect at all of the organization and SG reads it, he’ll chime in like that. If he’s making a serious point and someone refutes it, he generally attacks the poster and/or moves the goalposts.
I’m sure that he’ll have something flattering to say to or about me when reading this, he doesn’t like me, anyway, and I don’t really care. I’ve tried to make the point in an non-confrontational manner, but…
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 18, 2011 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep I am an attacker of posters.
by SenorGato on Jul 19, 2011 1:43 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Who told you I didn't like you?
I’m prettttttyyyyy sure you’ve dedicated more time and posts to not liking me than the other way around. Really, I just find alot of what’s said disagreeable, and to put me in TJs class of poster is laughable.
by SenorGato on Jul 19, 2011 1:50 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't dislike you per se
I find a lot of what you have to say interesting and thought provoking.
What I do dislike is the way that you respond when someone disagrees. But you’re not obligated to tailor your comments to any of us, least of all me. Although it does seem to sometimes rub others the wrong way.
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 19, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
and
it sometimes obscures the more interesting things.
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 19, 2011 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
So basically you're saying I'm one of the best posters on this site...
but that I’m kind of an asshole about it?
I can accept that. Now I need Al to say that, and let me start writing here so that I can write here then write in wherever else.
wtf
Maybe I shouldn’t be writing at all. Last sentence for the fail…
I got the gist
And yeah, so did you. I shouldn’t feel the need to “coach” and I need to check that. But I think you could add more if you cut back on some of that, yes.
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 19, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, that whole post was weird
I can’t tell if the first part was sarcasm (I assume it was humor?), but what in the world was the last sentence?
In english I think it was meant to translate to:
Now I just need you (Al) to agree with that, let me write a piece or so, and launch a sensation. Something along those lines.
Gato reminds me of Bluto's rant in Animal House
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jul 20, 2011 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't put all of your posts in TJ's class...
but I put all of the post that you’ve started making as the “anti-TJ performance art” in the same category. Neither TJ’s nor your posts like that are remotely entertaining or interesting.
I’m not sure if your goal is to annoy everyone else with those posts, but you’re succeeding at it. And I’m guessing you’re not succeeding at annoying TJ with them.
by SouthernCub on Jul 19, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I do do that sometimes.
I’ll try to catch it.
fight annoying fire with annoying fire
Blake "The Franchise" DeWitt will lead us to the promised land
by jesus christos on Jul 18, 2011 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
And all that does is annoy everyone else...
TJ certainly doesn’t care. It’s just punishing us (to have to read both of their nonsense) for someone else’s sins.
How many words have you just put in my mouth Al?
I’ve made my stance many times, and as usual this is the best I can get in response to making it.
Otoh, yes, I feel Hendry has put this team in a position to succeed moving forward. I know i should fall in line and root for 2030 like the rest of BCB, but I really don’t see any reason I should be waiting that long or why it’ll be necessary. No one here has said anything to convince me otherwise.
by SenorGato on Jul 19, 2011 1:57 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Good question Al
Can anyone—including a Ricketts family member—tell us what it is that Crane Kenney does?
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Jul 18, 2011 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Nope but he sure should be fired for it.
No really I have no opinion on Kenney, but that’s because I’m like 99.9% of everyone here with no clue of what he does.
by SenorGato on Jul 19, 2011 1:47 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
He does presidential stuff.
Very important. Top secret. They’re too close to their goal of world domination to fire him now!!
Does that mean they won't try to sign Prince?
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 16, 2011 11:22 PM CDT reply actions
I don't know why that would stop them, even if Vogelbach signs with the Cubs he will...
…still be at least 3 years away from joining the big club.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jul 16, 2011 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I know that it shouldn't stop them, but they Cubs do stupid things sometimes.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 16, 2011 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Very True
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
No
They need to sell tickets from 2012-2015 too.
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Jul 18, 2011 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think this is a matter of the purse strings being opened in fact...
…Vogelbach probably would have been a lower pick if teams had thought they would have a decent chance at signing him and not bolting for college. It’s not unusual for these types of signing bonuses, especially for someone with Vogelbach’s upside. The kid has an almost identical swing to Fielders and at his age is already displaying Fielder type power.
These contracts and signing bonuses are not and haven’t been rare for even not so worthwhile players such as the Shark . He received a 5 year contract worth 10million dollars which included a 2.5million signing bonus before he ever stepped on a professional baseball field.
DeVoss was a no brainer for a signing bonus, the year prior he was drafted in the 38th round by the RedSox and while hitting .251 during his freshman year with the canes. 2011 he hit .340 while stealing 30 bases and walking 50 times(something the cubs desperately need). Don’t be surprised to see him get consideration with the big club in 2012.
Very interesting about Gillick, and I think Ricketts will change his mind if he hasn’t already about needing a baseball man.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
What?
DeVoss on the Cubs in 2012. Not a chance. Like less than 0. And this is definitely a sign of Ricketts spending money on amateur talent like he said he would. In years past we wouldn’t have even taken Vogelbach because he would cost too much.
Vogelbach as I said earlier would have been an earlier pick if not uncertainty that...
….that he was going to choose college. If you look at recent draft picks the Cubs have had, they have spent gobs of money to get them, yes It’s nice to see them trying to retain some of their later round picks but the money being offered to Vogelbach is not an extraordinary amount for a player with his upside.
DeVoss will be 21 years old if he isn’t already and he already has the plate discipline that the Cubs are sorely lacking at ML level. It’s not heard of for college players to almost immediately go to the big club.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
I think that was a typo, but actually it makes it more accurate.
I think you meant “It’s not unheard of” for that to happen. If so, you have to admit its exceedingly rare. And those guys tend to be top 5 or 10 overall draft picks, not third round picks. Even Mark Teixeira spent a full year in the minors before making his MLB debut.
It really is not “heard of” that a guy like DeVoss would break camp with the mlb team in his first full year after being drafted.
by Orval Overall on Jul 17, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
And that's the risk a guy like DeVoss made by signing.
He opted out after his sophmore year and probably would have inched his way into second or first round territory, remember he was drafted in the 38th round his freshman year and he made great strides in one year. I’m not saying that he’s not going to spend any time in the minors but by his scouting report he could be in the major a lot quicker than most.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Does hiring Pat Gillick means that Tim Wilken would still want to stay when Hendry is fired?
If Gillick doesn’t want to run the whole organization, I think he would be great for the type of consigliere role that Roland Hemond had in Arizona and in his second term with the White Sox.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
Hendry? Fired?
Start a Fanpost.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
Or, what Stan Bowman is doing for the Blackhawks.
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Scotty Bowman
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Correct...
…it should have happened two years ago.
I’ll believe it when I see it, but the hole is a lot deeper now and getting deeper by the day. A huge culture change is needed from top to bottom, no question.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I believe Gillick's run in Toronto coincided with Wilken's impressive draft run in Toronto
But, Gillick is 74 years old. To what capacity could he be involved in running a baseball team?
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
He knows baseball people.
Ricketts doesn’t.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
But...
…do you really want “baseball people” watching your “baseball people”?
That had to be one of the stupidest quotes I have ever heard!
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Ricketts is an owner
that has relied upon Hendry, etcetera. If someone (Gillick) who is a baseball lifer comes in to ’re-arrange a few things, that would be an improvement over the present situation.
I prefer Gillick making baseball decisions based on ‘what will make the organization better’, than Hendry and Kenney ‘proving’ everything is going well.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
I have been saying that...
…since Ricketts first took over the team.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
but he fell in love with the 5-foot-11, 240-pounder’s big-time power and was impressed that he dropped about 40 pounds from his junior to senior year.
This kid was 5’11 280?
"I wasn’t asked to catch the ball and go out in the flats and run routes, because that wasn’t how our offense was," Lawrence Vickers said. "Now people are lying and people think I can’t catch. I guess I shouldn’t have started knocking people out."
wilken is a slut
He’s always falling in love. He developed a mad crush on tyler colvin, then he had a dalliance with sweet swinging josh vitters. He loves hayden simpson and he don’t care who knows it.
At some point u have to start to question why wilken is always described as having fallen in love, and our top prospects keep getting mono.
by circuitclout on Jul 17, 2011 8:26 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
when
i read the gillick news elsewhere the 1st thing i said was fire kenney.
I wake up each morning thinking "fire Crane Kenney" and then I read the news.
by the nth on Jul 17, 2011 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It
Chicago Blackhawks 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Duke Blue Devils 2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Champions
It's written across my pillow
Chicago Blackhawks 2010 Stanley Cup Champions
Duke Blue Devils 2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Champions
Question
Does Hendry report to Ricketts or Kenney?
by jerry morales rules on Jul 17, 2011 10:50 AM CDT reply actions
I like Vogelbach's power
but there is no way you don’t go after a FA first baseman this off-season because of him. He might be four years away from the majors if he even does pan out.
These decisions will all be made by the next GM anyway. Having Pat Gillick advising Ricketts is a great idea.
Yeah I doubt Vogelbach gets in the way of
one of those FA 1B.
Gillick helped build another team I think the Cubs are looking to imitate…the Phillies.
by SenorGato on Jul 17, 2011 4:09 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
There's no way he gets in the way.
As I said above, the Cubs need to sell tickets from 2012-2015 too.
Hell, Opening Day might be the only sell-out next season if they don’t sign a Fielder-esque player for next season.
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Jul 18, 2011 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I just hope his career doesn't pan out like this guy...
Andy Hargrove, son of then Mariners’ manager Mike Hargrove. Same build, same rep as Vogelbach -
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=hargro001and
But not a good baseball player.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
a 47th rounder
as a comp for a guy that slipped to Round Two on signing concerns?
His stats may be the same, but it sounds as if Vogelbach has decent enough motivation.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
He was 23 when he was drafted too
Not a real good comp besides the body type. You could say Prince Fielder had the same build and rep as Vogelbach too. His actual career will likely be somewhere in between the too.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 17, 2011 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Also, I know it is hard to do
but there is no reason Vogelbach couldn’t lose another 15-20 pounds under a professional conditioning program and be sitting at a perfectly reasonable 220-225 lbs. I know with some people their body type is their body type, but if he could lose 40 at 280 he can probably lose 20 at 240.
And I don't see Fonzie
taking a spot in Camp Colvin
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
Where is this info that Vogelbach slipped due to singability?
BA, which ranks players solely on ability regardless of how tough a sign they will be had Vogelbach at #109. That would make him a 3rd rounder based on solely talent.
For instance, Josh Bell was considered almost impossible to sign and he was ranked #15.
And Sickels had him at #57 IIRC
Rankings are not set in stone, Vogelbach was seen as a late supplemental to early 3rd rounder by most accounts.
The Gillick bit is great, except
if Phil Rogers is writing about it, how much credence can their be to it?
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 18, 2011 5:57 AM CDT reply actions
"The Cubs are hoping they can develop their own Prince Fielder"
They’ve been hoping they can develop their own Cy Young too. How’s that working out so far?
If true, that line just sums up everything that’s wrong with the Cubs. Why buy Prince Fielder this winter when you can go cheap, cross your fingers, hope for the best and sell the spin to all the sheep who will guarantee you over 2 million in ticket sales by the first week of January?
So fed up with this team.
"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts
Smh.
Yeah the Cubs are out of the Fielder running now. They have Dan Vogelbach.
by SenorGato on Jul 19, 2011 2:02 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
If you ever agree with me, I'll know I'm on the wrong track.
Thanks for the reassurance.
"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts
Just to point out you ARE on the wrong track...
Saying they’re hoping to have a strong internal 1B candidate in 4 years does not remove them from a FA 1B THIS YEAR. It’s common sense.
Also, you’re really attacking the Cubs for going cheap? They have a payroll upwards of 140 million… some people just crack me up.
You don't even know basic payroll facts.
It’s not over $140m. Try again.
"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts
I was using upwards of in the sense that it means "approximate"
Their salary with 5M deferred for Pena is just over $139 million. Do you really want to argue semantics?
And if that’s the only thing you could possibly take away from my argument, I’ll assume you admit that Vogelbach has no bearing on the 1B crop this year?
I was using upwards of in the sense that it means “approximate”
And that means you were using it wrong.
"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts
by bluemagic9 on Jul 19, 2011 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Man, do people love to nitpick
The Cubs have salary of $134 million this year. That’s the fifth highest payroll in baseball. You’re really going to nitpick over whether it’s above or below $140 million? Does that make any real difference in bdlugz’s point that the Cubs haven’t been going cheap?
Payroll will not stay where it is now.
Ricketts has already stated he wants it to decrease. This is not a secret.
"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts
Two points of disagreement
1) I’m not sure he’s actually said he wants the payroll to decrease; and
2) Even if he did say that, I’m guessing he didn’t say by how much.
The Cubs could reduce payroll a fair amount and still not be cheap.
Can you please find any link for this please??
This was never stated as you’re claiming, or it CERTAINLY would’ve been heard around here.
wtf is with you people?
Do you not know how to use Google? Find your own damn articles.
"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts
You're the one pulling the argument theoretically out of thin air...
why is it our job to try to find evidence regarding your claim?
by SouthernCub on Jul 20, 2011 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
BECUZ GOOGLES CAN DOOZ IT!!
Something is seriously wrong with the interwebz when people can make unsubstantiated claims and when asked for a source they simply say, “Why the hell is it my job to look that up for you?!” Ummmm, should be quite obvious why it would by your job, good sir.
Dude
It’s the Internet. You take this stuff way too seriously.
I find it funny that just now you’re realizing there’s dumb people on the Internet.
I think you mistook my post for being upset...
I just think it’s funny.
Upwards of is one of those phrases for me that I've misused all my life (blame the schools!)
I’ll get over it if you will. However, I’d still like you to address the actual POINT of my discussion. If you’re just going to try and give me a grammar lesson, I’ll find someone else to have a discussion with.
Gillick
I love the idea of Pat Gillick. Then hire a fresh young go get em GM whos lack of experience can be helped by having Gillick with him. Make Gillick team President and have him in charge of the baseball decisions leaving Ricketts to make the off field decisions. Having one person in charge of one part the other person in charge of the other would let both men concentrate on their own area and allow them to do the best they can.
I suggested a few months ago the Cubs do the hire a veteran baseball man for the President job and a fresh faced person with new ideas and a go getter for the GM job. PAt Gillick would be sep 1.
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
How much does Vogelbach weigh
When he puts the other foot on the scale? I’m serious, there is no way he is 240 even if he dropped 40 pounds. I’d put him at at least 300 in the videos I’ve seen of him. Most scouts I’ve heard describe him also estimate over 300 lbs. before the weight loss. He needs to keep up the weight loss effort or there is no way he is going to stick around. Hopefully the Cubs can get him in for a few rounds at Camp Colvin.
Umm, he's around 6 foot 240.
Every scout has reported that within an inch plus or minus and 5 pounds plus or minus. Where have you EVER seen him noted at least 300 pounds before the weight loss?? BA, BP, ESPN, PG, etc ALL have him in the same range.

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