Cubs Minor League Wrap: July 17
by Josh Timmers on Jul 17, 2011 11:26 PM CDT
in Minor Leagues
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Why are they called the Rays when they play in a dome without sunlight?
Iowa Cubs
The Iowa Cubs won their third in a row over the Oklahoma City RedHawks (Astros) 3-2.
Dave Bush made his I-Cub debut today. He only went 2.1 innings, as he was on a pitch count. He allowed one run on five hits. Bush walked two and struck out three.
Chris Rusin got the win with four innings of relief; allowing only one run on four hits. He walked no one and struck out two.
Justin Berg had some trouble in the ninth, but pitched out of it and got his third save. He walked one and allowed one single in a scoreless inning. He struck out Koby Clemens with runners on second and third to end the game.
All of the I-Cub scoring came courtesy of a three-run home run in the sixth inning by catcher Chris Robinson. It was his first home run this season. Robinson was 1 for 4.
Third baseman DJ LeMahieu was 2 for 4. Left fielder Brad Snyder was 2 for 4 with a double and a run scored.
Tennessee Smokies
The Smokies game was suspended with the Smokies leading the Mississippi Braves 1-0 in the top of the third. The game will be completed tomorrow before the regularly scheduled game.
Daytona Cubs
The Daytona Cubs keelhauled the Brandenton Marauders (Pirates) 9-3.
Angel Guzman pitched the first two innings of this game and allowed one run on two hits. Guzman walked two and struck out four.
Dae-Eun Rhee collected the win with five innings of relief. He surrendered two runs, one earned, on seven hits. He walked one and struck out five.
Center fielder Matt Szczur was 2 for 6 with a double and two runs scored. He also stole home. I wasn't listening to the game, but it appears to have been a straight steal of home.
Shortstop Rafael Valdes was 2 for 4 2 with two doubles and a walk. He had two RBI. Catcher Michael Brenly was 2 for 4 with an RBI and a run scored.
Second baseman Logan Watkins was 1 for 4 with two walks and two steals. That extended his streak of reaching base to 32 straight games. He scored three times.
Peoria Chiefs
The Chiefs got blasted by the Fort Wayne TinCaps (Padres), 16-7.
Woah, I'm tempted to do one of my rare "Nothing to see here" recaps. But Luis Liria made his Peoria debut and got hammered for seven runs on seven hits, including two home runs, over five innings. He walked one and struck out three.
Richard Jones was 2 for 4 with two doubles and a walk. He had three RBI. Eliot Soto was 2 for 5 and scored once. Arismendy Alcantara went 2 for 5 with a double and three runs scored.
Boise Hawks
The Boise Hawks were shut down by the Vancouver Canadians (Blue Jays) 1-0.
The hard-luck loser was starter Willengton Cruz, who allowed but one run on four hits over 5.2 innings. The run scored on a second inning solo home run. Cruz did not walk anyone and struck out eight.
The Hawks only managed three singles today.
AZL Cubs
Hayden Simpson had his first good outing in a while. He pitched four shutout innings. He allowed three hits, walked one and struck out three.
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It was Cubs steal home night!
Zeke DeVoss also stole home tonight. Went 1 for 3 with a walk and 2 steals. I have a feeling he might become a favorite of mine.
Actually, he only stole one tonight. It was his second of the year (read boxscore wrong).
Good base to steal if you only steal one!
Nice start from Cruz
He’s been pretty dominant so far. Sorry to see the rough start from Liria, but hopefully it’s just a bad night or nerves with the new level.
Love the line from Cruz
A little disappointed in the gun reports on his FB, though. I saw a tweet that it was 88-91 last night. After AZPhil said that he was consistently in the low-90’s down in Mesa, I was hoping for more along the lines of 91-93.
LeMahieu and Szczur doing what they do with multi hit games.
Nice to see Szczur with a double and steal as well. He really could steal alot more than he does. McNutt pitched 2 scoreless before the suspension, even though he lacked control again. Liria got destroyed. Simpson with a good outing, don’t even care if it was rookie ball. And Cruz with a terrific outing. He’s probably my favorite pitching prospect right now.
It's kind of funny
But, was there ever any doubt that LeMahieu would hit at AAA? It’s been great to see, but somehow I think we all just knew that, once he was sent down, he would hit.
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
by Brett Taylor on Jul 18, 2011 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, his batting AVG stats are consistently very good to amazing...
Given his size, the hope is that the power comes with time. He’s started showing doubles power this year. As a 2B, he could probably stick with his bat. As a 3B, he’ll need to have that power emerge. But I don’t think anyone doubted he’d be a .300+ guy in AAA.
It’d also be nice to see him get some more walks, as his OBP has been carried by his average to this point. In fact, his entire OPS in AAA so far is based on hitting frequent singles (only 2 XBH and 2 BB in 66 PA). That’ll need to improve.
I know you were just being funny...
But, there are a ton of sting rays in the bay water on the gulf right there. There’s also a lot of dolphin, you can see then every morning. I lived there for a bit.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
But they replaced that "Devil Ray" logo
with a sunburst. Just like the Chiefs changed their logo from an Indian to a dalmatian with a firefighter hat. So those rays don’t count anymore. (I would assume that the sun does shine outside the ballpark sometimes though.)
Do they still have a ray in an aquarium in the stadium?
by Josh Timmers on Jul 17, 2011 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, they still have the aquarium. Saw it on TV tonight,
It was a good change for them. The young GM wanted to start with a whole new change, and that was part of it.
I wish the Cubs had the organization they have. They are truly exceptional at scouting and developing talent.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Someone mentioned how this system is goig to be deep after this year.
True story.
The best 1B prospect in the system before this year might have been LaHair. Now it’s Vogelbach by miles.
Baez might have the best overall bat potential in the whole Cubs system, and might be the most best 2B and 3B prospect right off the bat. Then of course there’s LeMaheiu, Flaherty, Lake, Gonzalez, Smith, Cerda, Watkins, LePage, and Vitters all trying to be non-1B IFers or utility players or something. Plus there’s the emergence of the 3B who’s last named ends with a C in the DSL, Penalver the SS, Acosta the SS/3B, and Marcano the 3B who’s bat reminds some scouts of Victor Martinez.
DeVoss appears to be a different kind of OF/IF utility type than DeWitt/Flaherty, and possibly a more exciting one. I don’t completely buy the hype yet, but he seems to have more upside than I initially thought.
There’s alot of catchers I can name with Castillo, Clevenger, Gibbs, Malava, and Rosario.
The OF has Colvin (not a rookie), Jackson, Szczur, Ha, possibly Dunston, Easterling, Chen, and then guys like Evan Crawford.
The pitchers I’m too lazy to list…but there’s a bunch of arms, a couple potential high upside starters who didn’t break out this year (McNutt, Simpson specifically) and then more arms.
Haha that was me, yesterday
I was working on a potential end of season top 30…and I couldn’t even get all the guys I like in the top 30. It was crazy. I just did it as of right now and some people will move up and down, but I’ve got most of it right now.
Yeah
you named quite a few guys I didn’t really consider, which is where the pitchers come in for me.
Marquez Smith, the 3B for Iowa,
put up some of the best MLE’s in the minors last year:
zMLE: 341 PA, .278/.340/.502 (.317 BABIP), .366 wOBA
It’s from 341 PA he had in AAA last year.
He gets no talk, but he’s been solid this year. We talk about 28 1B LaHair as a legit starting option if Pena is gone and they miss out on Fielder/Pujols, but if there’s an older propsect who might surprise in the majors it might be Smith.
He’s a top 30 prospect in the system, but this year not as high as last year. That’s a good thing.
He took a step back so far this year
After a great year last year (.958 OPS), he is down at .802 in OPS. His numbers this year are more in line with his career minor league numbers, so hopefully last year wasn’t an aberration for him.
At 26 with an .802 OPS at a corner IF spot, he’s pushing the envelope on being called a prospect.
To be fair, he's only played like 66 games this year
with just over 200 at bats. That’s close to a 15 HR pace which isn’t terrible if you play great defense and get on base, which he’s done pretty well at.
15 HR pace in AAA from a 26 year old isn't all that great for a prospect...
His OBP is just solid (.350s), and the OPS is also just solid (.800). It’s all just solid, which for a 26 year old in round 2 of AAA makes you borderline as a prospect. He killed it last year in AAA (.950+ OPS) so things looked a bit better for him.
by SouthernCub on Jul 18, 2011 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions
True
but he’s consistently hit between 15 and 20 homeruns per year in his minor league career. Just saying he has the pop to probably hit 15 a year in the majors, which wouldn’t be bad from a defensive minded 3B or a second baseman.
Just imagine
if the Cubs are able to pull in a couple/few decent prospects in the next two weeks.
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
by Brett Taylor on Jul 18, 2011 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Sounds like stuff put out by the Cubs marketing staff
when you suggest two unsigned high school kids are in the top 10 of team prospects along with a pitcher who hasn’t made it out of Mesa yet. Wake me up when they actually do something.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
He's not merely "suggesting" it
It’s fact. The minute Baez officially signs, he becomes at worst our 5th best prospect. You could make a case for or against Vogelbach, so I see your point there.
Baez is our #3 prospect
the second he signs. Only Jackson and Szczur rank above him.
Vogelbach might not be so high though. He’s certainly top 20, but he might not be top ten.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 18, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
I still think McNutt is criminally underrated around here
The guy can’t use his bread-and-butter effectively because of blister problems all year and he’s written off as the 8th best prospect. He’s still my #3 prospect unless Baez signs quickly and tears it up in some game action.
For the most part....
….doesn’t the minute almost every 1st round pick signs with his new team that guy enters the top 5 or so prospect list for that team. So in essence, as long as you sign your first round pick, aren’t you just treading water in regards to minor league talent compared to the rest of baseball?
I know this isn’t apples for apples as some teams have better minor league systems than other teams and higher first round draft picks are often better, but the case is that your first round pick typically get slotted close to the top 5 in your system.
Overall, this system still lacks guaranteed high end talent. Sure, one can opine that the lower levels have all of these projectable talents, but until they dominate high A or double AA, it is nothing more than hope.
Today BP (Kevin Goldstein) released its top 50 mid-season minor league prospects and not one Cub made the list. So combine that with BA’s list that only had 2 and you do not have a system with high end caliber talent near the MLB level. That remains a serious issue.
and....
…. every team for every draft has at least a few reach/overslot guys they hope to sign, and often do sign. The trick is getting those guys and the rest of the low level “projectable” guys to continue to perform at the higher minor league levels. So many of these sleeper guys fizzle out, it is absurd.
I sitll like the direction of the system and am definitely postiive about it, but let’s pump the brakes a bit in regards to already crowning these guys. Also the upper levels have lots of major league players, but outside of Jackson and perhaps Sczuzur and LeMaheiu, it is hard to find more than a few guys that project outside of MLB utility players, bullpen arms or backend rotation pieces. Still useful, but not the type of players a dominating minor league system produces.
There is not one true #1/#2 SP and no true game changer CIF/COF above Boise. That is an issue.
Considering the system has given the Cubs...
The best 20 (now 21) SS in the majors and a mere three years ago one of the best all around catchers in the league…the fact that the system is only topPed off with a couple high upside CF prospects just might be fine.
Personally, the lack of elite prospect talent is grossly overstated. Maybe if they picked in the top 5 every year like the teams that do have the super amazing elite prospects (many of which are overhyped anyway).
by SenorGato on Jul 18, 2011 1:37 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Although I am not a frequent commentor....
….I have by now seen enough of your comments to know that you are always going to take a positive approach. This is a good thing, and positivity is something that I need more of in my life.
However, being as positive as you are can skew reality from time-to-time. At least in my opinion, this system is still not elite. Middle of the road (somewhere from 15-20), sure, I’ll give it that. But what I cannot do is look at this group of low A+ level prospects on whole and ignore the flaws. And the biggest flaw of all is the lack of elite talent anywhere near the major leagues. Next are the continued lack of plate discipline across almost all levels, little in regards to middle of the order power hitters and what is beginning to be lack of power pitchers. Sure, the system is loaded with bullpen arms, plus catchers, back-end starters and light hitting middle infielders that are the 3 star (BP) or C+ variety (Sickles) . Most minor league systems have a boatload of the same guys. What truly sets your system apart from the others is the >= 4 star players and >= B+ players. At the current moment, from Daytona and above, the Cubs basically have 1-2 of those in Jackson and Szuczur.
And to say you have to have a top 5 pick to produce an elite player is simply not correct. MLB is littered with all-stars selected after the top 5 picks in the draft and international free agents/signings. Does having a top 5 pick increase your likelihood of an all-star, sure, but I’d guess history would only say that increase is marginal at best. Just take a look at the Cubs top picks in the past decade. How many of those top 5 picks have even had an impact at the MLB level.
There are also a number of teams that do well in the draft and consistently select in the middle to lower half of the draft: Braves, Phillies, Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Twins, Rockies, etc.
by mmontice on Jul 18, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Concur
Other than Jackson (who was hitting .258 in AA), I really don’t see any legit top end prospects on the offensive side. Szczur was sub .800 ops-ing in low A ball. All the infield prospects have weak to abysmal plate discipline.
Other than McNutt all the pitching prospects are either injury issues or relegated to bullpen arms at this point.
I have a feeling if this was the system of the Astros or Brewers that most of the people would think it sucked? People are letting their Cubbie colored glasses fool their minds.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Also....
….to say top end prospects don’t matter is something I cannot agree with. They keep you from making too many high caliber/bank breaking free agent signings. Controlling high-end talent on the cheap is one of the most important team/financial mgmt tools at a GM’s disposal. If you don’t want to give them big contracts, flip them for the right return at a trade deadline or let them walk (offer arb) and get another draft pick in return. Basically, if you try to always keep the pipeline of high end talent flowing, good things tend to happen.
The Astros and Brewers would kill for this system.
If this were those systems BCB would cry about how we can’t even have the future of One of those teams…but since it’s the Cubs system and the big league team is losing…negativity reigns supreme.
by SenorGato on Jul 18, 2011 4:53 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
So...
…to make your point, you pick two of the worst systems in baseball for comparison as to why the Cubs system is good? That’s like me saying we should be happy with the Cubs record this year because its 6 games better than Astros.
And the reality is over the past few years the Brewers have emptied their system to try to compete now with Braun, Fielder, Hart, Gallardo etc, as that team has money issues. They have taken a risk and decimated the system, but at least they have a plausible excuse.
The Astros are awful on all levels and similar to the Cubs, really don’t have much of an excuse as to why this is the case.
You too often mistake a realistic standpoint for negativity. Like I said before, you are always going to take a positive approach. It just seems that is in your nature, and is a good thing (although it can more often lead to disappointment). But anything less than this type of positive approach doesn’t necessarily mean negative. There is a ton of middle ground between the these two polar viewpoints.
I never mentioned....
….the Brewers and Astros.
Where?
Aaron B did.
He wasn't being negative, just realistic.
Just because the Astros and Brewers have shitty systems doesn’t make ours elite, we’re still middle of the road.
Having an elite farm system is overrated for a couple reasons...
1) they’re still prospects and the majority will bust.
2) that probably means you’ve sucked for a long, long time.
Were probably higher than 15-20 at this point too…Just last year the Cubs system got the compliment that there’s more future MLers in this system than many of the systems in baseball.
Plate discipline is actually one of the fastest growing skills in the system, as we actually have top and far away prospects who take walks now.
Top 5 picks are where obvious elite talent comes from. Like most other systems, to get elite talent from outside the top draft picks we have to keep stocking talent and hope some pass. I still think most underrate a farm system with two potential 4-5 tool CF prospects because of this search for press given to a
Felix Hernandez or Elite bat type prospect.
Power is another thing the system has added lately…first with Golden, then the Burgess addition, now with Baez and Danny V.
I’d say the system stacks with all those systems you just named…and like I said was said…it’s full of guys most think will reach the majors in some capacity.
by SenorGato on Jul 18, 2011 3:18 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
You are missing my point....
…and contradicting yourself.
This entire time I have been saying that the Cubs lack high end prospects in the upper levels of the system. If you’ve made it to AA and are destroying the competition, barring injury, the likelihood you bust is low or even very low.
What I am trying to say is that we don’t have so little high level talent in the upper levels, say >= A+.
And what I am trying to say to you is exactly what you are arguing for: you cannot count on high level guys from Boise making it. That’s why this system is still not elite, and definitely not anywhere near the top 10.
Your comment: “1) they’re still prospects and the majority will bust.” is a complete contradiction to what you argue for almost every single day on this website—-that our low level <= A- are very intriguing and we should be very excited about them. The reality is and exactly what you said above—-I cannot get truly excited about them until they prove themselves vs. what amounts to more than mid/low level collegiate talent. Until then, almost pure speculation.
Plate discipline might be growing, but once again outside of Jackson/Flaherty/Szczur, this is occurring at the very lowest of levels. LeMaheiu, Vitters, Colvin, Castro, Barney etc, etc do not take pitches or walks for that matter.
And can we please stop talking about Burgess. The dude is up to .220 after a month long hot streak, has struck out 80+ times in 300 ABs, is a career .250 minor league hitter and has little speed to speak of. Maybe he pans out to something, but he is just not an exciting player right now.
Also, to say guys like Golden and the addition of Baez and Volgelbach is exciting is true, but then again pretty much every system has guys like that about to come in or at the lower ranks. This isn’t something that is exclusive to the Cubs.
And no, this I disagree with you more than anything else I have to date: the Cubs system does not rank with those systems and has a long, long way to go until it does. Those systems churn out major league talent and have for a long time, all while consistently competing at the MLB level. This cannot be said for the Cubs in any way. Sure, the Cubs system might be on the up and up, but like you said above “1) they’re still prospects and the majority will bust.”. Until a number of Cubs players reach the higher levels and contribute on a regular basis at the MLB level, this system’s track record remains what it has been over the past decade—-extremely subpar.
by mmontice on Jul 18, 2011 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Correction
What I am trying to say is that we don’t have so little high level talent in the upper levels, say >= A+.
was supposed to say:
The word “don’t” was not supposed to be there.
I thought you meant A+ talent.
As far as a number of players coming up and contributing positively…what are Castro, Shark, Soto, Rusell, Barney, Wells (not this year), Marmol, and Marshall?
While it’s true that alot of the system is far away…that doesnt mean there isn’t very talented help on the way…Jackson, Lemahieu, Flaherty, and a few arms are all at AAA or AA….THEN the depth starts.
by SenorGato on Jul 18, 2011 5:02 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I also believe this farm system can pull off
another big trade in it’s current state if they wanted to do so…which is something a good, healthy farm system should always be able to do.
by SenorGato on Jul 18, 2011 5:04 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Every every farm system in baseball...
…can pull off a big trade if it wants to. There are always useful players, always. Even the Astros can get one done if they want to.
My thoughts:
Castro=Stud
Shark=Let’s not get started with him. He’s a middle of the road BP arm right now. Yes bullpen again.
Soto=I don’t know what to say about him other than he’s schizo and the Cubs should be trying to trade him NOW in case he does this again next year. One year good, one year bad, but overall he is starting to get worrisome.
Russell=Seriously. Look at his stats (and I’ll ignore the games started stats). He’s also a BP arm.
Barney=Utility player with little plate discipline.
Wells=No thanks. Even as a fifth starter. The more teams get to know him, the worse he’s been. Honestly. he doesn’t even have the stuff to be in the BP either.
Marshall=Awesome, but handled like shit by the Cubs.
Jackson=I like him a lot, but the Ks are a huge red flag. Still will be a very useful, if not good, MLB player
Lemahieu=On the up and up, but needs to improve his plate discipline and power. Hopefully that happens. He will never be a regular major league player with a .310 OBP and < 10 HRs a year
Flaherty=Late bloomer who I hope can continue to improve. Would love to see him at 2B or 3B, but remain guardedly optimistic. Most likely reality is a MLB super-sub, which is still very useful.
I don’t know who these other impact arms are at AA/AAA?
See we completely disagree here...
Castro – stud. Ok so there’s one thing we agree on.
Shark – improving middle relief arm with explosive albeit inconsistent stuff.
Soto – ROTY and one of the better all around catchers in the league.
Russell – look at his stats as a reliever. Theyre awesome. It’s ok to just be a bullpen arm, know why? Well one because I believe that can change, but more importantly you NEED a good bullpen in the 21st century.
Barney – high caliber fielder and one of the few guys I feel comfortable in saying his character and intelligence allow his ok talent play up. maybe a utility guy, I think can start at SS somewhere because of his glove.
Lemahieu – .310 OBP? Number out of a hat post? I’m higher on him than most so I guess that’s all I have there.
Wells – 4-5 starter, which despite the fact he’s not Justin Verlander 2.0, is still pretty valuable. Guys get 8 or ten million dollars to pitch worse than this guy sometimes.
Marshall – Misused in what way? He’s arguably the best LH reliever in baseball, or slightly below that. That’s misuse?
Useful AA and AAA arms include Gaub/Beliveau, power lefty relievers. Jay Jackson has been showing signs of life lately, and might get a callup later in the year. McNutt…yeah that’s all I remember right now there might be one or two more.
by SenorGato on Jul 18, 2011 8:49 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Yabbut
The reason the Cubs have been so historically wretched is the front office has been populated my morons. When Wilken was a couple years into his tenure, we had so few quality fill-ins in the pipeline, we had to buy what we needed. In fact, we dealt DeRosa to reload the system.
Wilken started loading up on MI, so we wouldn’t need to re-buy Aaron Miles 2.0. We now have MI candidates far better than we’ve had homegrown in a long time. We still don’t have much for TOR starters. I wish we did. We don’t. Wilken spent the last drafts restocking usable players. BJax, DJLM, Flaherty, and some IFA on the way.
This draft, he took some bats in Baez and Vogelbach. Most teams teem with sluggery types. We still don’t. If anyone expects the Cubs to be elite by 2013, that ain’t happening. However, if the proper person is put in charge of baseball ops, we could be on the right track sooner than later.
I do wish our hitters were more selective. That and lack of upper-end starters are my biggest frustration with the team.
Teams that follow a productive gameplan for years in a row generally win. We haven’t for decades. We’re getting better, and that our system has quality depth is better than our system a few years ago that had (fake) bling but no depth is an upgrade.
Bring in Baez, Vogelback, Dunston, and Maples, and have Camp Colvin ready in the fall.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
Considering the system has given the Cubs...
The best 20 (now 21) SS in the majors and a mere three years ago one of the best all around catchers in the league…the fact that the system is only topPed off with a couple high upside CF prospects just might be fine.
Personally, the lack of elite prospect talent is grossly overstated. Maybe if they picked in the top 5 every year like the teams that do have the super amazing elite prospects (many of which are overhyped anyway).
by SenorGato on Jul 18, 2011 1:41 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
When just one of our HS position player prospects
hit’s our Wrigley lineup on a regular basis, I’ll have more confidence in ranking them so highly. Until then, there is no basis to lend much credibility to those high rankings.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Baez was a legit top ten pick in one of the most loaded drafts in years. That’s a basis…nit sure why he should be knocked down because of the past that doesn’t involve him in the least.
by SenorGato on Jul 18, 2011 5:08 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Baez was a mid 1st round rated player
Vitters was ranked #3 and how is he doing? Baez is being knocked down because of the Cubs abysmal record with HS hitters.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
No, Baez was called by some the second best
bat in the draft, including Josh iirc.
I see no reason to knock him for the Cubs past.
by SenorGato on Jul 18, 2011 9:50 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
You called him a legit top 10 pick
Most called him a mid 1st round pick. We reached for a HS bat. That’s not knocking him. The fact is that the Cubs have a very bad history developing HS bats.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Baez was BPA... that was not a reach at all.
You’re really grasping at straws and throwing out incorrect information. The reason you’re thinking he was middle of the 1st bat was because the Brewers were said to have a deal in place with him already.
Also, even IF you find him ranked 15th, 6 picks high is not a “reach.”
Finally, you cannot knock Baez down because of past performances by HS hitters. We all know that fantastic post you offered showed us all the information we’d ever need to judge the Cubs HS prospects moving forward, but I think I’ll trust the experts on this one.
You're not worth the time to try and debate you
When you actually want to bring facts, let me know.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Ironic post is ironic.
All I ever asked you to do is supply facts and all you did was attack with vitriol. It’s funny that I never even said I disagreed with you, and you still get pissed.
Agreed...
Several of the guys on that list are unlikely to ever see the majors (Gonzalez, Watkins, Cerda, LePage). Smith has taken a step back this year in terms of production (.800 OPS in year 2 at AAA). He might make the majors but he’s probably closer to Hoffpauir in terms of impact. And the DSL guys are SO far away from impact. Chen is 19 and has singles power.
There are definitely some signs for optimism (guys like Szczur, Jackson, Flaherty, LeMahieu, maybe Ha, and of course the new guys in the system like Vogelbach, Easterling, Baez (when he signs), and others). But it seems like Mr. Cat only deals in the extreme positives (like the mirror opposite of TJ11 who has to spin everything as negatively as possible.
The truth is somewhere in between. There’s a lot of depth, but the quality of the depth is debatable. Most of those guys look like fringe major leaguers at best. Hopefully several of them turn into impact players.
by SouthernCub on Jul 18, 2011 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's young and has potential...
But for me he falls in the “prove it” category. Sort of like Vitters – I only give so many bonus points for being young for your league. I’d agree more with your ranking on Chen.
Chen got lucky that day.
I left Vitters off and kinda sorta got lazy…that said he’s one of the more high profile IFA signings.
by SenorGato on Jul 18, 2011 12:37 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed
The system has good depth, especially in the low minors, lots of talented, raw guys down there. But it really lacks the top-end talent of an elite farm system, especially when it comes to pitchers. Hopefully we can have some break-out performances next year that turn the system elite, but it still has a long way from breaking free from the middle of the pack.
The Hoffs replacement is Lahair.
Smith stands the outside shot of being useful. Better ahleticism, defense , younger, only on round two and not round 6….
by SenorGato on Jul 18, 2011 12:29 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The farm system is progressing
and progressing pretty well in the past couple of years – Im not debating about where it should be if Hendry were a better GM but this doesnt happen overnight.
As I have said before the system appears to be chock full of the guys that you typically have to shell out $2-8 million a year for which if you can save $30-40 million on all of them allows you to be more agressive in teh FA world with fewer big time busts.
That being said this draft seemed to go after the other end of the spectrum and Wilkin appeared to try to get the more high upside players who become the Fielder, Teixiera, Crawford’s of the world.
Again, interesting to see that with new ownership comes an improved farm system…
by hansman1982 on Jul 18, 2011 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
The Ricketts only improves the system
so he doesn’t have to improve the MLB team. He hates winning.
by SenorGato on Jul 18, 2011 12:47 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
How often does a top ten draft pick
NOT make his teams top ten right off the bat? Baez has big bat potential…I’m kind of annoyed I overlooked him so much during the draft period.
by SenorGato on Jul 18, 2011 4:20 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Top ten?
Probably never. Worst I can think of were some budget picks like Matt Bush, who despite being the #1 pick in the draft was only considered the #6 prospect in the Padres system by BA going into the 2005 season.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 18, 2011 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
No
But so far, no one has indicated any concern that he won’t.
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
by Brett Taylor on Jul 18, 2011 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Baez and Vogelbach
would be quite the power hitting corner IF tandem. i was hoping we’d be able to sign Rock too but that is doubtful
We offered him WAY overslot and he wanted double what we offered.
He’s not signing.
???
How do you know that?
I’ve heard he was asking for 400,000 before the draft and they are still negotiating.
Do you just make this stuff up?
by OakParkErnest on Jul 18, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
But to be fair,
my source won’t tell me his source, so he could be making crap up. He’s been right too many times for me to completely dismiss him, but he could be wrong here as well.
Yeah i heard every indication hes going to college.
i think UCF? Some Florida school. its a shame, getting him Baez and Vogelbach would give us some monsterous power. plus Hoilman but unless the man cuts down the Ks in half he wont be much of a prospect. not that he is now, but his power is large.
I've heard the Cubs offered around $350-400k
and that he was looking for closer to 750k. Nothing I can prove or offer more insight into. Take it for what you will.
Knew it was coming sometime soon
Let’s see what he can do against better competition. As for the interesting bats in Mesa, I’m still interested in Cabezas and Gioskar Amaya. Both are such a question mark that I want to follow them a bit. And I still have a soft spot for the Donger. Hopefully his struggles this year and tied directly to his shoulder surgery last year.
With DeVoss going to Boise, you almost have to assume he’s going to be playing 2B everyday, right? With both Chen and Na there already, CF would be very crowded.
Scratch that
Apparently Cabezas got sent up to Boise as well. So Amaya is it down there until we can sign a few more draft picks. Yikes.
Call me crazy/paranoid,
but I think Cabezas had visa issues. Didn’t travel to Vancouver, leaving the team with only 11 hitters. Once the team left Canada, he’s back.
We shouldn’t have many exciting prospects in Mesa. Unless they’re HS types that are scuffling some.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
Good...
I want to see those bats get tested at higher levels!
How come nobody talks about Zapata, Amaya, and Hernandez?
All three are just 18 and are all hitting over .320, but they never seem to be mentioned when people talk about interesting guys in the lower levels.
I mentioned Amaya above
I like him. He’s at least interesting if he can stick at SS. I suppose Hernandez and Zapata could both warrant some attention now that the rest of the lineup is completely void of more interesting guys. Zapata especially. That is one sexy BB/K ratio he has down there so far.
The 4:18 BB:K ratio in 76 PA frightens me about Amaya
Hernandez has a slightly more palatable BB and K rate and has shown more power too. Zapata has a fantastic BB rate and good wheels with 8 SB in 82 PA.
Most definately
The BB:K rate is bad. That’s why he’s only marginally interesting, along with the others, right now.
They're nice, but..
I don’t usually pay attention to Mesa bats unless they were highly touted beforehand. I’ll pay more attention once they jump up.
Golden seems to have cooled off a lot lately...
His OPS is down to .754, and is currently being carried by his walk rate. It’s strange – his stat line this season is exactly opposite of what his scouting report would suggest (big, lots of power, but raw batting skills). So far this season he’s been mostly a patient hitter with speed, but not very much power on display.
The power will come on Golden
I’m much happier to see him drawing walks and stealing bases. The very fact that he’s holding his own in Boise at 19 is encouraging.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 18, 2011 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Which I would take every day of the week right now
Instill the strong PD early on, and when his body matures, let the power numbers develop. In a perfect world both are present from Day 1, but we knew we would have to be really patient with Golden.
Agreed...
I’m in no hurry. He’s very young, and I’m happy to see the auxiliary stuff there. The power should come given his frame, and it’s not like he’s on any fast track anyway. The plate discipline he’s showing is a very pleasant surprise.
by SouthernCub on Jul 18, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Golden is one of the guys I think will breakout next year
As long as he shows up in shape, I think he’ll hit 20+ HRs.
True on Golden though I'll credit him with...
The weight and stereotypical image his scouting report creates underrates both his speed and D.
by SenorGato on Jul 18, 2011 3:00 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Geiger just doubled off the LF wall in his first AB as a Chief
It was off of Keyvius Sampson as well, who is a very legit pitching prospect.
What type of numbers would you guys predict for him?
what type of avg, hr, etc could he maybe bring to the table in the future (if he reaches his full potential, obviously)
Thats pretty studly.
I’d like to read more about Geiger….I know he cost money to bring in.
by SenorGato on Jul 18, 2011 3:01 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Only issue is
Terrible plate discipline.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Not really
We don’t really know what to make of him yet. In 138 PA’s last year in Mesa, he walked at a very respectable 8.7% clip. Struck out around 18%. He hasn’t even had that many PA’s yet this year, but he’s been absolutely scorching the ball. Especially with really young guys, if you’re in the zone, you don’t want to waste ABs by taking pitches. His time at Peoria should be really telling
And SG, I believe he was around 200K as a 20-something round pick last year. I could look it up, but I’m lazy.
.342 Batting average
.366 On base average.
On a related note….Jim Hendry LOVES his hitting approach!!!!
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
82 PAs
At this point it is ridiculous to label him a guy with no plate discipline, as he’s had a larger sample size where he took some walks (2010) than one where he didn’t (2011). As I said above, his Peoria stint should be very telling for us.
What stat did I use incorrectly?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Claiming terrible plate discipline based on 82 PAs in which he has a 3.7 BB%
When we have nearly double the PAs from last year showing he held an 8.7 BB%.
Using small samples to claim something does not make it look like you understand stats. This is hardly the first time I’ve seen you do something like this.
So a 6.6% career walk rate is the new gold standard?
I hope the kid can buck the odds and 400 BABIP his whole career going forward. I just think he really needs to tighten up his approach as he climbs the ladder.
Obviously he is young enough to have the time.
Just not a foregone conclusion he’s a stud at this point. Couple of red flags that should temper some expectations.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Wow, where did I ever say he had a great walk rate, or an elite walk rate, or it is the "gold standard?"
Also, a 6.6% career walk rate, when it’s down considerably this year isn’t terrible by any means for a young kid. You, on the other hand, did say, and I quote “terrible plate discipline.”
You clearly had no idea what you were talking about and made a quick glance at this years stat line, yet you refuse to admit your wrong while trying to throw words into my mouth.
I’ve also never said the kid was a stud, and neither has anyone else. You jumped into a conversation about potential and starting claiming bad information and get pissed when someone called you out on it. Move along, nothing to see here.
YOU are the one saying "maybe some day you will learn how to use stats"
The kid has a 3% walk rate THIS YEAR.
In reality that IS A TERRIBLE WALK RATE.
PERHAPS YOU SHOULD LEARN HOW TO READ STATS BRO?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
SSS... I'm done with this...
no need to argue with big letters.
Burgess
Am I the only one who is quietly encouraged by Michael Burgess? He’s been hitting excellent recently with both power and patience and his batting average is creeping up. If he can keep this up, we could very well have a really nice piece. What thinks the rest of the BCB nation?
Until I hear reports of him hitting curveballs well
I’m not buying.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
I think he has Marcus Thames potential...
As a power hitting OF off the bench…not sure what his splits are…Thames biggest plus
by SenorGato on Jul 18, 2011 3:04 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I think he has Marcus Thames potential...
As a power hitting OF off the bench…not sure what his splits are…Thames biggest plus Is that he kills lefties.
Burgess had a good July. I’m intrigued.
by SenorGato on Jul 18, 2011 3:04 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Forgive me if I missed something...
…but why is Justin Berg closing for Iowa and not Chris Carpenter?
Baseball is pitching, hitting, baserunning and defense.
by daver on Jul 18, 2011 1:41 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I was wondering this too. i read Carpenter was being installed as closer
which led me to believe Marmol may be on the block…
Probably
because they want Carpenter pitching on a regular schedule and not waiting until there is a “save” situation.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 18, 2011 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Angel Guzman
I was wondering if anyone new any information on Angel Guzman, such as is there a timetable for a possible return to Chicago? I keep seeing him starting in Daytona and going 2 innings. I might have missed someone else explaining it, but I am curious to know what the deal is with Angel. Thanks guys.
They want Guz to go 2 innings
to get his game back. I think that’s it.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
Andrew Cashner
Has anyone heard an update on his progress? Last I heard he was waiting 10 days to throw again, but that was more than two weeks ago.
by Shakedown Street on Jul 18, 2011 6:52 PM CDT reply actions
The cubs have been very quiet about pretty much...
everything this year.
http://www.sportsoverdose.com/topic/andrew-cashner-injury-update.html
This came out today(?) but there’s a bunch of dates. Seems like he thinks he’ll pitch this year. If the organization agrees with him publically and it doesn’t happen I might be less of a homer for a little bit.
by SenorGato on Jul 18, 2011 10:14 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I half suspect Cashner is going rip it when he comes back...
due to stem cells. Just to be wild and crazy in my accusations…Bartolo Colon had it and it’s been a non-issue, but the way he was throwing means that surgery could be groundbreaking, to put it lightly.
by SenorGato on Jul 18, 2011 10:19 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
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