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Also of interest the usual:
Teams also have expressed interest in lefty reliever John Grabow, outfielder Alfonso Soriano and Marlon Byrd.
Man would it be freeing to get rid of those contracts.
Not sure we get much in return.
The bulk of the money has been spent on Fukudome’s deal. He certainly wouldn’t fetch a big return of prospects. Same for Grabow. Byrd at least has another year on his deal, so he could get you something usefull for the system. Soriano only goes if the Cubs shell out lots of cash.
To me the most useful players to trade, who we can live without in the future are Byrd, Pena, and Soto.
Agreed
except I disagree on Soto. I’m not convinced Beef is a legitimate starter, and he’s not the difference maker Soto has been in his good years. If someone is willing to give top prospects for Soto with the hope he’ll revert back to good Soto, then by alll means. But he’s been great enough that I’d just assume keep him over trading him for non-impact prospects.
I also am not giving up hope that Ramirez gets traded.
DEJESUS!!!
I just don't see the Giants.
What will they do next year? They still have Huff and want to eventually put Belt at 1st. Soto has no place.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
Based on what?
He’s had maybe two good full seasons. He doesn’t seem 100% dedicated to fitness, he’s average defensively, and this year i sone of his down years. I’m all for jettisoning him, but I also don’t expect squat back at this point.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
You're severely undervaluing Soto then
Because Soto is one of the few guys that would bring back a nice piece or two.
Again, based on what do you say this?
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Even in his down years, Soto is still better than average for a catcher
He’s young, he’s cheap, and he’ll be under team control through 2013, if I’m not mistaken. It’s difficult to find catchers who can hit worth a spit, to boot.
Trading Soto just for the sake of trading him would be one of the worst mistakes this team could make. Castillo has a chance of being a decent catcher some day, but the odds are against him becoming better than Castillo. The same can be said for every other catching prospect in this system. The 2012 free agent class is pretty miserable at catcher. The 2013 free agent class isn’t much better.
If the Cubs can get elite level talent for Soto, then hey, great, trade him. But trading Soto just to get him off the team would be a terrible idea.
by Outshined_One on Jul 23, 2011 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
If all the Cubs really receive in return is
salary relief on some (Fukudome) and roster space (Soriano, Grabow) than that is the greatest gift of all. Landing any type of prospects for these players is a bonus.
If you are able to find a team to pay at least $2M of Fukudome’s remaining salary, that’s $2M more the Cubs have for international signings and the draft next season.
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Jul 22, 2011 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
than should = then
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Jul 22, 2011 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Give me some space!!
I feel like the Cubs have been the laughing stock of MLB over the past two years. As Cub fan, we deserve better. If that means, Hendry/Ricketts eat crow, let it be so.
The thought of Soriano playing LF for the next 4 seasons, is unbearable. It hurts every time the ball is hit his direction. I hold my breath.
At this point, if the Ricketts need to eat 75% of his contract, do it. I don’t mean to point fingers only at Soriano, there are others as well that we just to get rid of.
Quade went off on Castro and Barney earlier in the week. I sure hope he blasted Soriano today for poor base running. Everyone know, you don’t advance bases when you are at 2nd and the ball is hit to the left side of the infield.
This team needs a major overhaul. Let’s get this party started!!
"The standard is the standard" Mike Tomlin
If they want these people why not do it already....?
What are we holding out for? Just give them away Jim!!!!!!!!
With Soriano...
I am sure he would.
If the Cubs save $10M on his remaining years, it’s a win.
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Jul 22, 2011 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions
This trade would make sense for the Indians.
The Indians’ regular RF (Shin-Soo Choo) is on the DL and has been terrible this year (.687 OPS). Tonight, they used Austin Kearns (.640 OPS) in RF. Kosuke would actually be an upgrade in RF for the Indians, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see this happen.
by Jody Jody Davis on Jul 22, 2011 10:18 PM CDT reply actions
I'm looking forward to seeing Fukodome
when I’m in Cleveland on July 31 before the Cubs-Pirates series in Pittsburgh.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Jul 23, 2011 7:30 AM CDT up reply actions
I'll be there
#10 You will be missed.
by Bricks and Ivy on Jul 25, 2011 2:04 AM CDT up reply actions
The problem with the Indians...
is they don’t have a lot of talent they’re willing to part with, and they don’t have a lot of money in their budget. I’ve been wanting them to make a trade with the Indians for a few weeks now.
I think the Braves are sneaking up as a good candidate. They should have the money to take on his salary and they definitely have the talent to trade. They need an outfielder with what they have in CF and LF with Prado having to cover 3B for Chipper.
Texas and, more interestingly, Milwaukee and Cincinnati would be other destinations… all are in dire need of outfield help. They’d be more of a surprise though.
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by jameslcrockett on Jul 23, 2011 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions
are you saying fukudome to atlanta?
or just an OF in general. seems like byrd would be a better fit for them.
by circuitclout on Jul 23, 2011 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed...
Fukudome doesn’t have much value in CF (where he’s not a defensive strength) and has no value in LF (where his defensive value is minimized).
by SouthernCub on Jul 24, 2011 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions
He's not a zero asset in LF or CF.
That’s an old scout’s wife’s tale. A good outfielder, which Fukudome decidedly is, helps a team no matter where he plays. If he improves your team, he improves your team. This leaves out that Fukudome had his most productive season for the Cubs as a CF… and it was also the last time the team was over .500. He could absolutely play CF for a team that doesn’t have a better option and the Braves certainly qualify there (McLouth is a multi-faceted pile of suck and Prado can barely play L). The Rangers would probably like to move Hamilton out of CF too to save him the beating. He’d be a big upgrade for Milwaukee over Carlos Gomez. I’m not saying they can’t find better options at CF from other teams, but if they deem him to be the best option they can afford, it shouldn’t stop them because he’s more of a defensive asset in RF. In fact, the Cubs should be giving him innings in CF right now to show that he’s still capable and showcase him some contenders which need convincing.
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by jameslcrockett on Jul 24, 2011 2:21 AM CDT up reply actions
His value is in RF first, CF second, and LF a distant last...
And it’s not a lot of value even in RF. I’d be shocked if the Braves or Rangers acquired Fukudome.
by SouthernCub on Jul 24, 2011 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I already said that wasn't factual and why.
It doesn’t become more true the more you repeat it.
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by jameslcrockett on Jul 24, 2011 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
with all respect...
simply calling something “an old scout’s wife’s tale” is not the same thing as proving him wrong. You’re entitled to disagree, but the idea that he should have seen the error of his ways because of that declaration is a bit much.
His point, I believe, is that RF is typically the more important position to fill with a good defender because it has the longest throw (RF to 3B) to cut off extra bases. Many more players can play LF than can play RF. And not everyone that is good enough to play RF or LF has the speed to play CF, with Dome being on the bubble of what a real CF would have.
So, yes, he would be a defensive asset in LF. But you could say the same about 5 x as many players as you could say would be an asset in RF. Since Dome is part of that smaller group that can be effective in both, his highest value is to a team looking for a RF.
by Orval Overall on Jul 24, 2011 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions
That's not all I said...
make sure you read something before you chime in.
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by jameslcrockett on Jul 24, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
But none of what you said refuted my statement...
that he could be better than McClouth in CF doesn’t make him a valuable LF/RF. The “old wife’s tale” comment is not based in any fact. He DID have his best season in CF – but that was when his SLG and his fielding were better (his defense has declined each of his 4 years in MLB). He would NOT be an upgrade over Gomez when you consider Gomez’s defensive value, youth, and price difference.
So none of what you said is factual evidence that my statement was incorrect.
Re: Gomez
WAR factors in his defense. If Gomez’ defense was enough to make him superior to Fukudome, he’d have a higher WAR than Fukudome… he doesn’t. He gets the advantage of playing CF which brings with it the higher positional adjustment, and he pales in comparison to what Fukudome has put up. Gomez is that bad offensively. His youth and price difference mean nothing because Fukudome is only a 2-month rental. They can go back to Gomez later if they want to. The same goes for Nate McLouth.
You can argue about FG’s numbers vs BB-Ref’s numbers as far as Gomez goes (FG has Fukudome “declining” in defense ever year. BB-Ref decidedly does not. Can we agree that the truth is probably somewhere in the middle?), but you can’t when it comes to McLouth. He’s terrible according to every possible metric. He’s a horrible CF and a bad hitter and the only justification to keep playing him is they already have him on the roster. Fukudome crushes him in every way.
The important part of that statement, which you might have not read was that a good outfielder improves your team no matter what, as long as he’s better than the outfielder he’s replacing. There’s no justification for saying Fukudome doesn’t improve the Braves, and I’ll argue the Brewers, too, if they just put Fukudome in CF over what they’re running out there now. That’s a fact supported by the statistics. What do you have that says otherwise?
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by jameslcrockett on Jul 27, 2011 2:35 AM CDT up reply actions
factually
your statement is just a baseless opinion. some of the metrics suggest that fukudome has lost whatever defensive value he once had and is not longer a plus defender in RF, let alone CF. he’s certainly nowhere near the defender that carlos gomez is and the idea that he’d push josh hamilton out of CF is laughable. he might be a slight upgrade over mclouth but that would be a huge and unnecessary risk for atlanta to take.
by circuitclout on Jul 24, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Again...
make sure you read it all first. I never said he would “push Hamilton” out of CF. They’re looking to take him out of CF, which is why he’s not their everyday CF unless Julio Borbon starts sucking, which is exactly what’s happened. The Texas Rangers would rather Josh Hamilton not have to go through the rigors of playing CF. I’m not saying Fukudome is an upgrade for them there (hell, he might not be an upgrade over Endy Chavez in LF the way he’s played for them in a short sample), but if the Rangers want to give up something for him, I’m not going to stop them, which is the only point I was making by including them. He would however, be a marked improvement over Nelson Cruz in RF, at least defensively. What Jon Daniels and Ron Washington want to do with him after they trade for him is irrelevant. He improves their team.
As far as Gomez goes, thankfully offense AND defense matters. Offensively, Fukudome, even when he’s slumping, takes Gomez out behind the barn and paddles his backside raw. He does the same to McLouth. Exactly how is improving their team for low cost, even if it’s marginally a huge risk when they’re currently getting very little? You can’t have it both ways… you can’t say the metrics downgrade Fukudome, and then say he’d only be slight upgrades over those stiffs. Even with those metrics, Fukudome is a significant upgrade. There’s absolutely no consensus when it comes to Fukudome. Some metrics have him as a replacement level player, others have him as the best player on the team and worth what he’s getting paid. I’m sure the truth is somewhere in the middle, but you can’t just cherry pick them to try and make your point, if you even bothered to look them up at all.
All of the above arguable points about his value relative to his position only effect how much the Cubs would get in return for him… it doesn’t change the fact that he’ll improve the team whether it’s in LF, CF or RF. The Cubs could improve their return on trading him by actually putting him out there in CF to verify how well he can still play the position.
He’s not the best option “on the market”, but we have no idea whether those teams can make deals for those “better options”. We don’t have a crystal ball. If we did, one of us would own the Cubs right now. It won’t be a mistake for any of the teams I’ve mentioned to play him in CF, LF or RF, if that’s the best way they can improve their team. They certainly shouldn’t not do it because he “has more value as a RF”. They ain’t marrying the guy, they’re just using him for a couple months.
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by jameslcrockett on Jul 24, 2011 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions
i'm having trouble following you
and i don’t seem to be the only one. your initial point seemed to be that fukudome was without question a good OF and would be good an upgrade at all 3 spots for a number of teams. i don’t know either point to be an absolute truth. there is evidence to suggest that fukudome is no longer a defensive asset in RF (fangraphs says he hasn’t been since 2008) and there is really no way of knowing if he could handle CF on a daily basis, even just for two months. he has never played a major league inning in LF.
you then go on to suggest that fukudome, and his 0.1 fWAR to date would be an upgrade over carlos gomez (1.7), nelson cruz (1.2), and nate mclouth (0.3) with a great deal of certainty even though it’s unclear if fukudome can play LF or CF and has limited offensive value even when compared to some wretched hitters in gomez and mclouth.
by circuitclout on Jul 24, 2011 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions
maybe
but seeing as how he’s never played the position in the majors it is anyone’s best guess how he’d fare out there.
by circuitclout on Jul 24, 2011 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions
playing left isn't really
that different from playing right, you just don’t have to make quite as long of throws. It’s not like switching infield positions where you need timing. If you can play right, you can play left.
DEJESUS!!!
Agreed...
the difference is that you expect more offensively from your LF (since the defensive requirement of a LF is the lowest of any position on the field).
Fukudome could certainly field LF (it’s the easiest position for an LF to play). But his bat isn’t really adequate for LF, and LF takes away value from his best quality (his arm).
I agree
I was responding to circuitclout who said we don’t know how he would play in LF. I was merely saying we pretty much do know how he would play there. The value of his bat relative to that position isn’t really what he or I were talking about.
DEJESUS!!!
lol
Blake "The Franchise" DeWitt will lead us to the promised land
by jesus christos on Jul 24, 2011 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions
FG and BB-Ref have varying numbers for Fukudome's defense.
One thinks it’s awesome, the other thinks it sucks. Can we agree that the truth is somewhere in the middle? You cannot refute that he has superior offensive value to McLouth and Gomez. I welcome you to try.
BTW… I never said he’d be an upgrade over Nelson Cruz… at least not as an overall player (though BB-Ref has Cruz at 1.3 WAR and Fukudome at 2.6). Cruz is not getting out of the lineup, but you can’t argue that Cruz is better defensively than Fukudome. Have you watched Cruz butcher RF? And you can’t argue that Julio Borbon or David Murphy is superior to Fukudome… in any way. You’re talking to two below replacement level players there. Therefore, it would make the Rangers demonstrably better to take those guys out in place of Fukudome and put Cruz in LF. Their option is to keep faith in Endy Chavez.
I think they’ll find someone better to trade for than Fukudome, but it doesn’t change the fact that Fukudome would be an upgrade for them.
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by jameslcrockett on Jul 27, 2011 2:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Either one...
but I wouldn’t stop them from giving up something good for Fukudome if they wanted him more… or as well. On most days, the Braves would benefit from having both Fukudome and Byrd.
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by jameslcrockett on Jul 24, 2011 1:57 AM CDT up reply actions
What sort of talent are you expecting in return for Fukudome?
I can’t imagine teams are falling over themselves to get this guy. He seems like a budget move for a team looking to not spend big (in prospects) to get help.
by SouthernCub on Jul 24, 2011 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Not much at all...
but it would make no sense for the Cubs to trade him to a team and not get value in return in prospects and pay all of his salary. It does nothing for me for them to save a couple million bucks, but they’re the ones who have to sell that decision to me when that time comes. I don’t really want them helping out another team because they want to be good guys. I’d rather have Fukudome sit on the bench with the Cubs after Jackson comes up, if they can’t get anything good in return for him. I don’t want them to just give him away.
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by jameslcrockett on Jul 24, 2011 1:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Obviously we don't want to just give players away...
I just don’t think Fukudome has much if any trade value now that he’s not hitting again.
by SouthernCub on Jul 24, 2011 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
He's still an upgrade for the teams I proposed.
That’s all that matters.
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by jameslcrockett on Jul 24, 2011 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
He'd be an upgrade for the Braves for sure - for the rest? Debatable...
When you take into account defense and cost, I’m not convinced that Chavez and Gomez aren’t better alternatives (much better CF defense and cheaper).
Also, a LOT of other guys are better options than McClouth. Just because the team has a terrible CF doesn’t mean they’re going to back up the truck for a mediocre rental RF who might be a tolerable CF.
Nitpick.
It’s “McLouth”, not “McClouth”.
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Again...
what does cheaper have to do with it? If they’ve decided they have the money to upgrade the position, they have the money. I’ve also never said they couldn’t do better than Fukudome. But if they’ve decided they can’t acquire anyone else, Fukudome would still be an upgrade for them.
Also again… when did I say anything like “back up the truck”? I’ve went out of my way to say the Cubs wouldn’t get much in return for Fukudome… some balance of salary relief and mid-level prospects.
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by jameslcrockett on Jul 27, 2011 2:51 AM CDT up reply actions
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