Chicago Cubs vs. St. Louis Cardinals Preview, Saturday 7/30, 3:10 CT
by Al Yellon on Jul 30, 2011 1:00 PM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Game Threads
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What more can be said about this team? I've brought out the Fox-TV dartboard for some laughs; check after the jump for whether your market will be able to see this game. Maybe you'll consider yourself fortunate if you can't. (Especially since it's going to be Buck & McCarver calling the Cubs game.)
The Cubs are 8-16 in July. Since they won the first game of the series at Wrigley Field against the Yankees on June 17, they are 13-22 and have one two-game winning streak and one three-game winning streak in that time frame.
I have heard no further trade rumors involving the Cubs at this time, but that doesn't mean they won't do something before tomorrow's deadline. We'll see. And now, on to today's matchup.
Cubs lineup:
Castro SS, Barney 2B, Ramirez 3B, Peña 1B, Byrd CF, Soto C, Soriano LF, Colvin RF, Lopez P
Cardinals lineup:
Theriot 2B, Jay CF, Pujols 1B, Holliday LF, Freese 3B, Schumaker RF, Molina C, Descalso SS, Lohse P
It's like TLR is taunting us, putting Corey Patterson, then Ryan Theriot, in the leadoff spot. Who's next, Neifi? This is Theriot's first Cardinals start at 2B.
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In his last three starts, Rodrigo Lopez has posted a 1.83 ERA and issued only one walk in 19.2 innings. That's.. actually good. Who knows? Maybe if he throws well enough today, the Cubs could ship him somewhere for a better prospect than they gave up to get him, in which case it would be worth having had him for two months. Lopez has not faced the Cardinals as a starter this year, though he did make two relief appearances in the last series the Cubs played in St. Louis and was responsible for one of the two Albert Pujols walkoff HR on June 5. Up until then, Pujols had been 0-for-12 lifetime vs. Lopez. Figures, right?
Kyle Lohse gave up four runs to the Cubs on June 4 in St. Louis, yet another game in which the Cubs had a lead (4-2 in the sixth) and lost. That was the other Pujols walkoff HR game. Lohse is having a solid year, but current Cubs are hitting .321 (50-for-156) against him with seven HR, including two each from Alfonso Soriano (yeah, fat chance, I know) and Carlos Pena.
Today's game is on Fox. It's their primary game, for some reason, so it will be seen in most of the country, except for California and adjacent areas, most of Texas and surrounding areas, the northern tier of states including Michigan, New York and New England and Florida. Here is the complete coverage map and here is the complete MLB.com Mediacenter for today.
Baseball-reference.com game preview
Please visit our SB Nation Cardinals site Viva el Birdos.
Today's first pitch thread will be up at 3:10 p.m. CDT and the overflow threads will post at 4 pm, 5 pm and 5:45 pm CDT. If you need more overflows due to extra innings or rain delays, post them in the fanshot section.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
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Since it proved so popular in the last thread
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jul 30, 2011 1:11 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
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I'm in love...
…with the shirt, he he.
"Chicago baseball fans, who are composites of scar tissue and mortifying memories..." - George F. Will
Avatar provided courtesy of AndrewJStone.
+ 1 million
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
With the exception of the pitcher today....
….. who really hasn’t done all that bad for the Cubs, if you were to look at the Cubs’ line up in a vacuum you’d be inclined to say it isn’t all that bad, at least it would be competitive. Then reality raises its ugly head…..
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Iunno....
They kind of lose me with the #2 hitter….I like Barney the player and he has his uses…but he’s not a ML 2 hole hitter.
I don't get the Barney bashing here
The lead off spot has not been consistent. He’s hitting .293, been around .300 all year, has struck out only 38 times in 362 plate appearances, and is a young draft pick that seems to be panning out. When you listen to other teams’ broadcasts the announcers praise him as a player for the future. People on this board for some reason can’t wait to sit him down.
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I think he's a player for the future....
And on this bad team he’s probably a passable #2 hitter…I agree that I see no one there that should be hitting in the 2 spot…that said, on a good ML team he’s not hitting near the top of a lineup.
His best spot in an NL lineup is 8th…or even 9th if you want to LaRussa….where his ability to put the bat on the ball consistently still has it’s uses but his lack of power and OBP can be brushed aside quietly.
He's probably best suited to be a utility player.
He’s got no power. He doesn’t steal bases. He doesn’t walk much.
On the positive side, he has real good baseball smarts and plays plus defense. The ideal definition of a utility player.
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I like utility players better when they can hit but yeah...
It’s one possible role for him.
Personally, I think in today’s offensive environment he could do well for himself as a starting SS for a team that really values defense.
I think there is more upside with Barney
Possibly a nice 8 hole hitting, solid fielding 2b. He works hard and is in his first year. He improved tremendously from Iowa last year to where he is today.
However, I don’t see him turning into Robbie Cano.
Hopefully we start finding some power at the corners (infield and outfield) and then we can live with a grinder like Barney in the middle infield.
Drew
because they are
cub fans, not to bright
by Mike the ex cub fan on Jul 30, 2011 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Barney
The Cubs lineup performed at #1 and #2 in the order where the departed Fukudome, Castro or Barney have most the time batted. I think Barney is this year’s version of a prospect who stays and plays in the majors until the Cubs have or acquire a better second baseman; one who hits for power and otherwise has the skill set. The goal would be to have or acquire the more ideal at 2B before Barney himself gets expensive.
by AboutTheCubs on Jul 30, 2011 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I was listening to Siriux XM the other day and they were talking baseball
they made the comment that they simply cannot figure out why the Cubs front office was so enamored with a roster that was sitting 20 games under .500
The report that the Cubs would NOT EVEN LISTEN to trade offers for Byrd only seems to underline those comments.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
How reliable is the report?
Has anyone quoted any Cubs’ official on that yet?
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Peter Gammons
I find that pretty reliable.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 30, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
No offense to Gammons who's always been an awesome read....
GMs have always used him to throw out BS rumors and general baseball talk. I find it very, very hard to believe that a GM isn’t listening.
Probably highly unlikely….but maybe the Braves just didn’t offer anything worth taking? Look how boring and mediocre the player we got for Lee is…and Lee was an expiring contract.
If Gammons didn't hear from a Cub official
Then it’s third hand info and open to questions.
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based on previous Hendry comments
and his love affair with a few of the other players on this team it becomes easily believeable
And I should clarify...
… unfortunately for me, and I say that because my take on these rumors makes me look contrary here, I’ve spent too much time at Fantasy Camps and Spring Trainings and places on the road with many players, managers, officials and whoever else in their unguarded moments that say 95% of these types of rumors, and especially now in the age of Twitter, are patently unfounded and false. Rarely, they say, does anyone call and ask if it’s true. So while Gammons might be respected, if he doesn’t expressly say “Jim Hendry confirmed Marlon Byrd is untouchable” then I doubt the veracity of the report.
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by BeerCub on Jul 30, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
1000 times rec'd.
One thing about Jim Hendry — he does not negotiate in the media. Think about it. We did hear some Fukudome rumors, but none of this “the trade is close” or “the deal has traction” (which is an actual word used in a Buster Olney tweet today). Breathless stuff which 99% of the time means nothing.
Think about it. Most Cubs deals in the last couple of years have been announced with very little pre-trade fanfare.
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This isn't about "negotiating in the media"
Gammons is saying he was straight up told the Braves called the Cubs about Byrd and the Cubs wouldn’t even TALK about it.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 30, 2011 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Nevertheless
Gammons has reported a number of things recently that turned out not to be true
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bet ya this one is 100% accurate.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 30, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Alright what should be the wager?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 30, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I dunno.
And how could we prove it one way or the other?
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Umm, if Byrd is a Cub come monday, that would prove me right
If he’s not, that would prove you right. Not real difficult
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 30, 2011 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions
No, that doesn't prove you right.
The discussion we are having here is whether the Cubs wouldn’t even TALK about him, not whether he’s going to be traded or not.
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Sigh.
Fine then there’s no reason to make the bet.
With that, I’ll just say this. ONE report of the Cubs not being willing to talk about trading mediocre players with no real future on the club could be laughed off “speculation and nothing more”
This is now what…the 5th or 6th time we’ve heard of the Cubs being unwilling to even DISCUSS moving a player? There’s a pattern emerging that anyone who isn’t desperate to defend Hendry can see.
And how the hell you’ve reverted to front office defender this week is beyond confusing
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 30, 2011 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I won't bash anyone based on rumors.
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So you believe the media is colluding against Hendry?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 30, 2011 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
No, I'm saying that not everything that gets reported is accurate.
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It would be a lot easier to dismiss
if it wasn’t reported multiple times, about different players, by different reporters
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 30, 2011 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
That doesn't make sense...
It’s entirely possible that they don’t want to sell Byrd just to sell Byrd. They’d have to pay some of this year’s left over salary plus a good chunk of next year’s just to get a nobody of Abreu/Lopez ilk….if you think that’s worth it sure….but I’m not even a fan of Byrd and I wouldn’t do that.
Some day you're going to get a modicum of reading comprehension
and that’s going to be a wonderful day.
My problem is the Cubs apparently reticence in even DISCUSSING trades for certain players.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 30, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I think they need to keep Byrd...
for the simple fact that IF Colvin craps out (and I believe he will), Byrd can move over to RF next year when B Jax arrives.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
Or we could actually go out and get a productive outfielder
Soriano, Byrd, Jackson is not an outfield striking fear into anyone
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 30, 2011 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
what if he heard it officially from a Braves official?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 30, 2011 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
A form of negotiation tactics perhaps....
It could be anything. They’re going to be looking to pay the least possibly amount they can for Byrd or whoever else they may want.
I find the whole concept of Hendry "refusing to discuss /listen to" offers silly
It sounds as if disgruntled GM’s who are upset if if Hendry does not like their offer. Does anyone seriously believe that Brian Cashman calls up and says “Jim, I have an offer here for Marlon Byrd” and Hendry says “No Thanks” and hangs up without listening to it? It could be that Hendry overvalues players, but is just ridiculous to claim he won’t listen to offers.
Frankly an offer for Byrd would have to be pretty darn good because I think one way or the other Soriano is not on the Cubs next year and replacing an entire OF would not be easy.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 30, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions
So you think basically every GM that has talked to Hendry has taken this tact. And they're ONLY doing it with Hendry?
That seems more credible to you?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 30, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
It seems totally credible that Hendry is overvaluing players
and other GM’s tell the media he won’t listen to offers. Is it credible to you Atlanta calls up and offers their top 4 prospects ( I don’t know who they are but it is the Braves so they are good) for Byrd and Hendry says no?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 30, 2011 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
As far as I've seen, the Cubs are the only team that has been described as "not willing to talk" about MULTIPLE players
If the GMs were just being bitchy, why are they ONLY being bitchy to us?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 30, 2011 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, I get the game!!!! I'm so....so....so....
…excited!
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
I make no pretence about understanding
How US television coverage is worked out (and I gather from BCB that a fair bit of it is a black box to a lot of you guys, too), but can someone explain to me what the big deal with Maryland is? Are Orioles fans really checking out the Rays en masse?
by Limey Cub Fan Jay on Jul 30, 2011 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
why
Why wouldn’t someone listen on Byrd. Is it because Hendry doesn’t want to promote jackson this year or what?
Looks like
Furcal to the Cards if he wavies his 10-5 rights.
Seriously?
If true, look for Ethier to be next. McCourt needs money badly and he’s past the point of caring.
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They'd need some really good prospects though
Because Ned Colletti still has to walk to his car at night at Dodger Stadium, no matter how badly off McCourt is.
Hiroki Kuroda, Jamey Carroll, Blake Hawksworth andMike McDougal (both last two guys are having good years) are also available.
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Brewers get Jerry Hairston
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thats it
I am throwing out my current prediction of Giants Phillies in the NLCS – its gonna be Brewers vs Brewers
Press is reporting
That following this addition all 29 other teams forfeited their seasons due to not wanting to prolong the inevitable. Cubs fans let out a collective sigh that the season is finally over.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
Cards are goin for it!!
Furcal a big addition can use Theriot as utility man and PH…greatly improves defense.
Still expect a few minor Cub moves…surely someone will take Grabow if we pick up $$$. I don’t mind keep Byrd even tho he’s one of 3 below-avg. producing OF, we need to fix that to have any prayer in 2012.
Theriot as utility man and PH
That can only hurt the Cardinals.
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I get the Angels at Detroit. The
Cubs may suck but I’d still like to have the option to watch them or not.
Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the ground each morning the devil says, "OH CRAP, SHE'S UP"!
Odd.
You must be considered to be in the Twins’ sphere of influence, wherever you are (I know you’re somewhere in Iowa). That’s the only way that game makes sense.
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We are at our lake home
which is only 50 miles from our home. If we were home I’d be getting te cubs.
Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the ground each morning the devil says, "OH CRAP, SHE'S UP"!
I get the Angels game today
Cannot wait to watch ARAM
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
You'll be waiting a long time if you're watching the Angels.
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I'm just hoping Brett Jackson gets hot and we see him up here this year..
the remainder of this team aside from Castro and sometimes Ramirez — is a snoozefest.
Or maybe the losing has just got to me.
'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'
I’m just hoping Brett Jackson gets hot and we see him up here this year..
So am I, and the sooner the better.
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the next Cubs bust B. Jax
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Not trying to be an ass about it
But the history is on my side.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Maybe this time they will break the bad streak
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Hey 1 guy - way to be
You proved me wrong.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
honestly though -
I have very little to be optimistic about.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Jackson isn't your typical Cubs prospect.
He can take a walk among other things.
'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'
TRADE HIM!!!
we don’t need those kind of skills on this team!!!
I'm going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp!!! Who's with me?
Per John Heyman
the Pirates asked the Cubs about Pena and were told they aren’t “motivated” to move him.
What a joke
No one is motivated at the Country Club in Wrigleyville
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
I honestly didn't think I could be any less impressed with Hendry
this trading deadline has proved me wrong.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 30, 2011 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions
He is saving his deadline deals
for next year when we are sitting on a similar record
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
I know
at this point my declaring that you wouldnt want to fire him before the deadline for the trades was wrong – hell I could have traded Fukudome and gotten what Hendry got…
i was just going to post that
and now for my third facepalm of the day
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Jul 30, 2011 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I hear the Pirates are interested in Derrek Lee
That would be interesting.
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Any intelligent GM is "motivated" to move players who aren't a part of the future when a team comes calling
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 30, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
no
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Jul 30, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
A+ free agent
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Jul 30, 2011 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd think so.
But, in the Cubs’ case, some of those players are unmoveable.
Byrd isn’t unmoveable. But maybe the Cubs want him to mentor some of the younger players next year.
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Pena isn't unmoveable either....yet he isn't being moved....
odd
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 30, 2011 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
old jokes about donuts inserted here
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 30, 2011 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
A priest, Jim Hendry and an old donut walked into a bar.......
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 30, 2011 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Unless Soriano goes away somewhere.
There is no room for Byrd. We cannot have an outfield of Soriano, Jackson and Byrd next year.
'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'
but didn't Hendry
Says that he wasn’t going to trade anyone that was in the plans for next year?
he did
…oh crap…
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Jul 30, 2011 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
i thought they
were trying to win
by Mike the ex cub fan on Jul 30, 2011 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
If this is the reason the Cubs don't trade Pena or Byrd..
I find it completely moronic.
Why in the world wouldn’t you be motivated to deal them? If you really, really want Pena back in the offseason, resign is ass in offseason?! While I love Byrd’s attitude, he’s not apart of this teams future, unless you get rid of Soriano.
'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'
Tarp is on field at Busch Stadium & it’s raining. #Cubs #Cardinals most likely will not start on time. There is a window, though
So there’s that.
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if nothing else, we stabilize our record for the day if the game isn't played today
I'm going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp!!! Who's with me?
However
The majority of thunderstorm activity in STL has passed to the southeast. Lingering showers should clear out shortly. #Cubs #StlCards
I’m guessing the game starts on time or close.
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supposedly I get Angels v Tigers in Vegas
we’ll see
I'm going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp!!! Who's with me?
Great
More time to be discouraged by reports that the cubs won’t talk about or are unwilling to trade anyone that teams actually are interested in
yet the opposite is true
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Jul 30, 2011 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Less time?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 30, 2011 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I was going to say the same thing
and considering the source…
I love you Jesus…you are #A1 in my book
Hendry claims we're retooling
But is swapping Fukudome for Colvin the only thing keeping this team from contention in his eyes? If he is unwilling to deal Pena, he doesn’t appear confident in the Pujols/Fielder sweepstakes. This is ridiculous.
by Bled Dry on Jul 30, 2011 2:48 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
isn't it obvious Dome was the problem!!
Since we got rid of him we’ve dropped 2 straight…oh wait…
I'm going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp!!! Who's with me?
his confidence in the 1b sweepstakes shouldnt come into account
pena is going to hit the market regardless
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Jul 30, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Then why are we unmotivated to move him?
by Bled Dry on Jul 30, 2011 3:02 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
i dont know
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Jul 30, 2011 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Um, that happened last night.
Did you miss this fanshot?
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jump
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
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