Braves put two CFers on the DL, have Marlon Byrd on the radar
CFers Nate McLouth and Jordan Schafer are both the DL... the walking wounded Braves are looking for reinforcements/upgrades. Bourne, Upton, and Byrd are the best options on the market for them.
10 months ago
SackMan
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Interesting.
Possible, I suppose, though there are several other options. My guess is that Bourn may be headed to Atlanta. (Total speculation on my part.)
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Their interest in Pence, genuine or not, helped drive up the price for the rival Phillies.
Maybe Bourne is their main target.. even before the injuries.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
6th Place Astros have
more trade chips than the Cubs. Pass the Alka Seltzer.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
these chips too...
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
I don't ever want to trade with the Braves period
They are too damn good at it.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 30, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
I just want an interesting low level arm back.
'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'
Yeah, if the Cubs actually could deal Byrd and Pena
even for a couple low-level B prospects, without having to pay all of next year’s salaries (or Pena’s 5 mill. balloon payment), it would help free up a lot of cash. Dealing Fukudome, Byrd, and Pena and cutting Soriano would be quite a statement about moving forward that would still fit what Hendry has been saying about not trading guys with a future with the Cubs.
But I know I’m dreaming.
Angel Guzman is the man.
Byrd does have a future
in mentoring the younger guys but I am guessing it will either be him or Soriano (I would guess through retirement) gone in the offseason to make way for Brett Jackson…
Also, I know its just nitpicking but Pena is NOT owed $5 million next year – its $3 million – I think Hendry is the only GM in baseball who could front AND back load a 1-year contract over 3 years. I saw the breakdown yesterday and it was $3 million when he signed (2010), $4 million this year and $3 million in 2011.
by hansman1982 on Jul 30, 2011 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Atlanta
I would take a low level arm for Byrd. It would be interesting for Atl since that would give them 3 CFR next year. Be interesting if they do trade Byrd how much monel do they have to eat and if they call up Jackson to replace him.
It's about time...
I just told my brother this morning: “Why haven’t I heard any Byrd to the Braves rumors? Schaefer and McLouth suck.”
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 30, 2011 11:23 AM CDT reply actions
...
ClintonBrannen Clinton Brannen
Peter Gammons said on MLBN that the #Braves really wanted Marlon Byrd, but the #Cubs wouldn’t even talk.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 30, 2011 11:27 AM CDT reply actions
Well sure. You want to jeopardize our hold on 5th place?
Trading Byrd could make the Cubs suck.
… Oh, wait….
Nevermind.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
Yeah, really, this is ridiculous.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 30, 2011 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
ok, I now am fully on the Fire Jim Hendry Express
when you have a team with the farm system that the Braves have calling about a CF’er that is now one of the better ones on the market with 28 hours remaining until the deadline and you dont even talk to them you are the single dumbest GM in baseball…
by hansman1982 on Jul 30, 2011 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
baker is proud to be untouchable like byrd
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Jul 30, 2011 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
If this is actually a truth,
Hendry should be fired. Of course in the Trib. today he talks of " No major overhaul needed, just add a couple of players here and there" Great, team will lose 95+ and just add a couple of players.
You have to entertain any discussions when your a GM of a team with the problems the Cubs have.
Problems that will take
half of eternity to solve! No doubt!
Nope just 2-3 years if managed correctly.
We could get lucky and compete next year if everything falls right, but we would need alot more than 2-3 moves. The current roster is nowhere ready to compete.
Next year has nothing to do with falling right....
Well…it will if they do something crazy like win a WS. Next year is about making the right moves THIS offseason to lay the foundation for the future. This team needs more than 2-3 moves, but 2-3 moves can significantly get us taken pretty seriously and make us contenders in a division where the Pirates are still putting up a fight for FIRST place.
They have Garza, Castro, Zambrano, Ramirez (probably), Dempster (probably), Mashall (probably), and Marmol…Those aren’t joke players, and they’re all entirely capable of being key parts of a contending 2012 team.
Um hello?
All of those guys are on the team right now and we’re threatening to lose 100 games. Signing Fielder and Wilson doesn’t make this team 30 wins better. Not to mention that besides Castro, all the guys you named are either over 30 or in their “prime years”(27-30). The only guy that is likely for a big improvement in that group is Castro, while at least a couple have already shown signs of decline.
The Pirates won 57 games last year.
Their big addition to the offense was Lyle Overbay. The big additions to the pitching staff are James McDonald and Kevin Correia.
They have 54 wins with 58 games to play.
Given that Garza, Castro, Zambrano, Ramirez, Dempster, Marshall, and Marmol are all better than any non-McCutchen player they have on the roster….and that Fielder and Wilson are major upgrades and not Overbay/McDonald/Correia upgrades…yeah I think good things can happen pretty damn quickly.
Also, player primes usually go 27-32, and for pitches there’s some thought that they hit their primes around 30….
And while Fielder and Wilson probably aren't going to make up 30 wins by themselves...
30 being an arbitrary though mostly sound number anyway….improvements from young players like Castro, Shark, Russell, Garza, Barney, Colvin, Marshall-ish, and whoever I’m not thinking of as well as rebounds from guys like Z, Soto, Soriano (to whatever extent), Marmol, Dempster, Wood(?) and continued performance from vets like Ramirez….well I could see all that adding up to a team that can make some headway on the number 30…especially in this division.
You basically just said every key player on the team will have to be better.
Which is completely unrealistic.
Some are bigger gambles than others...
All are entirely capable of it. These are not bad players.
That same thinking could have been applied to this year.
And we are one of the worst teams in baseball. Counting on guys like Soriano(?!), Zambrano, Dempster, and Wood to be better next year is not a good plan to compete. Not saying one or two can’t but, most of the guys you listed will not make a significant improvement from this year to last year, just face it.
OK, and this year it didn't work out.
Stuff happens. It has very little predictive value for this year.
Yes well, that's baseball.
It’s not like most other teams aren’t operating like that all the time.
Counting on them to up their game a little after adding a legit star and a stud pitcher would be a whole lot easier.
The Pirates are built around tons of young talent.
It’s not really that surprising, it’s similar to when the Rays broke out in 08. They have FOUR players over the age of 30. All the Cubs young talent includes a star SS, a decent 2B who’s probably more of a bench guy, and a couple pen arms. Get used to it, the Pirates are relevant again and will stay that way for at least a couple years, depending on how long they can keep their core guys around and how much their willing to spend.
For all their young talent...
Tabata, McCutchen, and Walker are the only young players who are putting up average or above average seasons offensively. Hell, the only other player having an average or above average offensive season is Garrett Jones (and Snyder when he plays).
The ace in their pitching rotation is Paul Maholm, and Jeff Karstens is posting an ERA under 3….
The Pirates are a bad team having a good year, for them. If they can pull that off….
So your master plan is for us to get lucky like the Pirates?
The ONLY young player we have putting up an above average season is Castro. Barney is pretty average, a backup on a good team. So we have one key player likely to improve next year, a whole lot of question marks surrounding that. That does not make for good plans next year. This team is more than 2 FA signings from competition.
Fine I'll pretend you can't wrap around what I'm saying....
1 – Our improvements, if Fielder and Wilson are signed, would be slightly better than the upgrades the Pirates made this year. I’d say that increases our chances of getting lucky.
2 – You conveniently ignore our young arms in the bullpen, who are also having good seasons.
3 – Barney being average is fine. The Pirates are dragging along with Ronny Cedeno, and the rest of their IF is made upf of Overbay/Walker/Alvarez. I think Fielder/Castro/Ramirez might be better able to compensate for that, personally. Just another one of my wild and crazy opinions though…
4 – The Pirates were more than Overbay/McDonald/Correia from competition and look at that….Stuff happens. Pretty weird how things can work in reality, right?
Make smart moves and 2012 is wide open.
1. Fielder and Wilson certainly help, but they can’t make our aging vets return to form.
2. Three posts up I mention that a couple of pen arms are one of our few bright spots when it comes to young talent, so now I’m not ignoring that. Even then, middle relief arms only make so much impact.
3. My point wasn’t a knock against Barney, just that we don’t have the young talent that the Pirates do.
4. The stuff that happened was improvements from young players, and no real decline since they don’t have aging vets like us.
Sure we can get in it with smart moves, but there needs to be a lot of player movement, not just the signings of two FA.
1 – A good point, but I do believe veterans can sense when a team is getting better and it can feed them. It’s not like we’re talking about a bunch of crap talent here with the vets.
2 – You said the ONLY. I figured you ignored the pen guys there. Shark and Russell are putting up strong seasons in the pen, and Shark especially has shown some really improved stuff this year.
3 – The Pirates don’t have the young talent a the ML level you think they do. After McCutchen I’d take our top three under 30 talents (Castro, Garza, Soto) over their 3. McCutchen’s a great f’n player though so…yah…they’ve got that.
4 – And a little bit of luck…Check out the stats of the individuals on that team and after McCutchen there isn’t a standout on there….well maybe Karsten’s ERA, but if you’ve seen Karstens pitched you’re not walking away going “that’s a sub-3 ERA pitcher.”
And again, as I just showed you with the Pirates, it really doesn’t take all that much sometimes. This Cubs team has individual talents that other teams would love to have, and with some outside help from some really stud type players….Well
we could fly right past that team and whichever one of those two teams loses their 1B (though overall I kind of like that Brewers core). Luckily there’s both talent and money available to do just that this year.
kind of tells you how secure Hendry see's his job
that said, Cubs have the biggest block, Soriano where I can only see DFA’ing him as the path to the future. Even if the Cubs were able to deal Soriano for let us say 90% of his salary ($48.6M) or they somehow save $11M they would have to take a bad contract in return, which would subtract from any savings, let us say Cubs are able to deal Zambrano and Soriano for Burnett of the NYY (at $16.5M thru 2013)….
but the Yankees are not biting are they?
How about Soriano to Houston for Carlos Lee (he makes $18.5M through 2012, so Houston must keep Soriano till 2014 so Cubs pay $32M to Houston for Lee?
I think a cleaner move is to DFA him and let someone pick up $400K a year through 2014 and bankroll the rookie’s salary…This way Cubs don’t take on another bad contract. Therefore keeping Byrd with RJackson and Colvin in the OF regularly is why no trade for Byrd.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
correction, $6M
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
WTF is wrong with me for continuing to follow this team?
Jim Hendry is a goddamn idiot and that’s certainly not going to change
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 30, 2011 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I wonder
if Hendry has sold Ricketts on the idea that we are just a couple moves away—that it is truly just injuries and bad luck and being a player or two short. Maybe that was the only way to save his job—to convince Ricketts that the team isn’t that bad, we just need a little something extra in the off-season.
If that’s how Hendry saved his job, how could he turn around and trade anyone halfway productive? He can’t tell Ricketts the team will compete next year and then trade Ramirez,Byrd, Marmol, Marshall, etc. Even if it is (and I think it’s clear) better for the long-term future if we trade those guys, if the guy calling the shots has to make the short-term look as good as possible to save his job, we have no choice of having what’s best for the club transpire.
It is so maddening to be a fan of this team!
DEJESUS!!!
OT: Just heard Levine said Wood rejected a deal to Philly.
I blame it on the Juice, blame it on the Hendry. POS POS.
Especially without telling the fans beforehand.
WTF kind of underhanded shyte is that?
Very believable indeed.
I used to be a Hendry supporter, but when he won’t even discuss trading league average players like Byrd and Baker he just becomes indefensible.
I never said he does.
But when it comes out that he won’t even discuss Byrd and Baker, I just ask myself “Why?”. A good GM listens to offers for everybody on a potential 100 loss team, especially league average players like that.
You don't have to say he does....
Your practicing the belief that he does. Hendry and the Cubs are not obligated to lay out any plans for the fans, and they don’t have to admit to anything. Aramis Ramirez has it in print that no one wants him because they want good players and not players like him. Should that be believed to be the truth?
Last year they didn’t make their big move until the last minute on deadline day. Then they made another pretty big move (dumping Lee) in August. I’ll believe nothings getting done when nothing is actually done.
Where have I called for Hendry to tell fans his plan?
Your putting words in my mouth and completely dodging the point. Please tell me why it makes sense to not listen to offers for league average players on a fifth place team.
You're working completely off the assumption that...
second and third hand reports are accurate and that Hendry isn’t listening. I’m not dodging the point, I’m questioning the validity of such a point just because you read it on the internet.
Again, I read that Aramis Ramirez admitted that nobody wants him because they want good players. It was quoted and reported by multiple reliable sources. Therefore, it’s true? Call me skeptical….
Aramis is clearly being modest.
You can stat check for 30 seconds and find out he’s the best 3B in the NL. Why would you not believe these reports when different sources are making them about multiple players, and Hendry himself says he won’t trade anyone who can “help this team next year”. He was even quoted saying “Marlon’s been a fine player, he has one more year left”. Why wouldn’t you believe the report about Byrd.
Yeah me thinks you missed the point.
Ramirez said it, it got reported, now it’s out there to be left to interpretation.
Also, he was probably being more sarcastic/funny than modest.
And good for Hendry…I don’t want him trading anyone who can help this team next year either. I’m not a big fan of Byrd so I’d support a trade in a second, but he’s not exactly a bad or useless player either…and at 6 million next year I’m sure we’d have to pay a good chunk to get something back…Not sure that’s really worth it.
Our top prospect plays Byrd's position.
Byrd really doesn’t have much value as a corner outfielder. Trading him clears money for FA, and may be the difference between signing someone or not. It also makes room for Jackson, and Hendry would finally be selling high on someone for the first time in three years. I never said he was useless, and he actually has been pretty solid since coming off the DL. But he’s not the difference in whether or not we compete next year. It’s absolutely ridiculous not to even consider selling high on him.
Byrd is much better than league average
the problem is that he is about on the same level as Pence, only older but cheaper. In other words, we should be able to get a decent return on Byrd if we trade him now when teams like Atlanta are desperate after losing out on Pence.
He's pretty average.
I guess he’s above average for a CF, but he’d actually be below average if we kept him and put him in RF with Jackson in CF. And Byrd isn’t really in Pence’s class, a guy who has three straight seasons of 25 HR.
I guess replacement isn't exactly the same as average
but Byrd has been worth 11.5 WAR this last four years. That’s about 3 WAR per season. He’s not a world beater, and he won’t make the Cubs contenders by himself, but he’d be a great piece for a contender in need of a right handed bat in CF. I personally don’t mind him coming back next year, but he won’t be part of the next Cubs playoff team, and he’s worth much more to a contender than he is to us. He ought to be traded for that reason alone. The Braves were reportedly offering Mike Minor in a package for Pence. If we could get Minor straight up for Byrd, we need to do it ASAP.
But all of this is of course irrelevant because Hendry is not trading anyone.
You're not getting Minor for Byrd.
Hell, the Astros weren’t getting Minor for Pence.
There were reports that Minor was part of the Braves' package
I’m not saying Byrd is better than Pence, just similar (and cheaper, albeit older). The Braves might not have given us Minor straight up for Byrd, but it would have at least been nice to try.
The Mets have been turned down on requests for Mike Minor, Julio Teheran, or Arodys Vizcaino of the Braves, Zack Wheeler or Gary Brown of the Giants, and Domonic Brown or Jarred Cosart of the Phillies, reports ESPN’s Jayson Stark.
As with B.J. Upton, the Braves don’t appear willing to give up Julio Teheran, Randall Delgado, Mike Minor, or Arodys Vizcaino for Beltran, tweets ESPN’s Buster Olney.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/atlanta_braves/page/3/
I picked the first one for lawlz, but yeah the whole “won’t give up Minor” remained consistent in all their rumors. I really doubt Marlon Byrd was the exception.
pence and byrd have the same WAR even though byrd has 300 more games under his belt
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Jul 30, 2011 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Pence is better no doubt
but there should have been a relatively robust market for Byrd. Water under the bridge now.
D'you hear Ramirez admitted to being a bad player?
At least he’s clued in, amirite!?!?!?!
that doesn't bother me
Wood is one of my all-time favorite players, and I’d rather have him stick around then get any middle of the road prospect back.
DEJESUS!!!
I have
a hard time knowing what to want with this team anymore. Typically when your team is bad you want to sell of guys that are older, somewhat expensive, but have value due to solid production.
Hendry’s trade of Fukudome has kind of disheartened me on that approach. He got essentially minor league depth depite Fukudome being a solid player and the Cubs paying the rest of his salary. The guys we got could surprise, but they don’t look to be future major leaguers.
I like Byrd and think he has value to the team if nothing else then by the example he sets. But if Hendry could get a player or two that have long-term value to the big-league club, then I’d be excited about the move. But if these kind of prospects are the ebst he can do (and that seems to be the case with the Lee, Lily, Theriot, Fukudome, etc deals), then why bother?
I’m most pissed Hendry can’t/won’t work something out with Ramirez. He would have tremendous, potentially franchise-changing value on the trade market, but there doesn’t seem much urgency on either side to work out a deal. Despite there not being much track-record of this happening, there is no reason he can’t come back as a FA after spending 2 months with a contender, and he’d come back to a better-stocked franchise.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 30, 2011 2:21 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I like Byrd and think he has value to the team if nothing else then by the example he sets. But if Hendry could get a player or two that have long-term value to the big-league club, then I’d be excited about the move. But if these kind of prospects are the ebst he can do (and that seems to be the case with the Lee, Lily, Theriot, Fukudome, etc deals), then why bother?
That’s exactly correct.
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Relax people
Hendry is just waiting to trade all these guys next year at the deadline when they are flirting with 95 losses again.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
OT- Pirates also inquired on Pena, but Cubs didn't seem willing to move him
We want to keep everyone!
You should be skeptical of reports that say Hendry "Refused to Talk" about a player.
I, for one, agree with the majority in here that if a top level prospect was offered for Byrd, Hendry should have grabbed that in a heartbeat. But I’m skeptical that one was offered, for two reasons:
A) There are a boatload of reports saying that the Braves lost out on Hunter Pence for the same reason they won’t go after BJ Upton or Michael Bourn – they aren’t willing to trade an elite prospect. If they came calling for Byrd, its likely because they were bargain hunting. Hendry’s refusal to accept a mediocre prospect for a player that is under contract for next season and more likely to contribute to the ballclub than the player Atlanta was offerng, is eminently reasonabe. If Atlanta was willing to offer the kind of player that would get people justifiably excited, they would have used it to get one of the better, younger players on the market.
B) Think about how that report got out. It surely was not Hendry leaking to Gammons that he refused to talk; it was someone in the Braves’ FO leaking their version of events to placate Braves fans who are upset they haven’t gotten anyone yet. By design it makes the Braves look reasonable and Hendry look unreasonable, which at the very least has a positive pr influence for the Braves, and possibly puts pressure on Hendry to lower his asking price. The point is, we don’t have the first clue what’s actually going on between GMs of any clubs, and the leaked tweets like this one don’t shed a whole lot of light because they are leaked on purpose by a party with an interest in how the story is framed.
by Orval Overall on Jul 30, 2011 4:18 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
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