The Rangers asked about Carlos Marmol and the Cubs said no.
by qwerty123 on Jul 31, 2011 11:56 AM CDT
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Jim Hendry is an idiot. He should trade Marmol. We could get some good prospects for him and Sean Marshall or some one else could take over as the closer. Hendry says the Cubs only need retooling and he is wrong. He really needs to rebuild like the Astros. I can't believe the only person he traded is Fukudome and he didn't even get anyone real good and some one who could really help us in the future. When will Jim Hendry get fired for crying out loud?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Jim Hendry is an Idiot.
That is all.
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 31, 2011 12:03 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Really, the namecalling is pointless.
But I would have traded Marmol. He has high trade value right now, and the Cubs have a closer in waiting in Chris Carpenter.
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I'm not 100% sold on Carpenter.
Regardless, I don’t understand why the Cubs and Jim Hendry believe Marmol is irreplaceable. He’s unhittable when his slider is on, but I’d rather have a guy that can throw consistent strikes as my closer. Maybe if you can get a top 5 prospect for him (maybe a starter) — you do the deal.
'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'
Almost any pitcher with good stuff and command can be made a closer....
… with the right mental makeup.
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Which is why it has been so easy for the Cubs to get one
even when we had a respected pitching coach?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 31, 2011 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
The Cubs have had pretty good closers.
… for short periods of time. Joe Borowski did a good job for one year, till he got hurt. Ryan Dempster was a decent closer.
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Nothing from nothing on Borowski
But I saw him doing the Diamondbacks’ post game show the other night. Didn’t know he had that gig.
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It doesn't really matter.
The Cubs have a bunch of young bullpen arms, and since they kept Marshall, they have him as well. Marmol is one of the older, and not even one of the two best guys, in the bullpen. I see no reason to keep him around with the bunch that there already is in the bullpen, even if it means we have to sign Papelbon this offseason.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 31, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
What you call name-calling
he might call expressing an opinion.
Did we really put Jose Macias on the field? Really???
It's namecalling.
Attack the action, not the individual.
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Unless the individual is SenorGato.
In that case, feel free.
...
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 31, 2011 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Jim Hendry's actions this week have been idiotic.
#10 You will be missed.
by Bricks and Ivy on Jul 31, 2011 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think anyone is sold on Carpenter.
He’s got a great arm, but he hasn’t exactly shown a ton. Marmol himself had to EARN the closer’s role.
Calling Jim Hendry an idiot isn't pointless.
It’s a 100% accurate depiction of his intellect
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 31, 2011 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Really?
Really? You know this man personally and can say that?
Would you say that to his face?
I didn’t think so.
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I probably wouldn't call him an idiot.
I’d tell him he has no idea what he’s doing and should resign, though. No problem.
FIRE JIM HENDRY. Injuries aren't the problem.
I remember him taking umbrage at criticism at the 2009 convention
and telling people that he knew what he was doing. I’ll bet he doesn’t say that at the 2012 edition.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 31, 2011 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions
If he's at the 2012 convention I'll call him and Ricketts idiots.
FIRE JIM HENDRY. Injuries aren't the problem.
Do that, and I'll buy you a scotch at Kitty O'Shea's
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 31, 2011 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually. Yes I would. At the moment there are few people I dislike more than Hendry. The man has ruined the ball club I have rooted for, for decades.
At some point the man needs to be called on his idiotic behavior. Are you under the impression I’ve never said a disparaging word to someone’s face?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 31, 2011 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I seem to remember we were 5 outs from a World Series.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 31, 2011 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions
It is obviously JH's fault
that a dp grounder was kicked.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 31, 2011 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions
It's obviously Alex Gonzalez' fault
That Aaron Miles was given $4.9M, John Grabow is making $4.5 M plus this year, Glendon Rusch and Neifi Perez were given multi-year deals, Milton Bradley was given a three-year deal to do something that he’d never done in his career, Ted Lilly was traded for a resin bag instead of getting a draft pick when he wanted to stay, Felix Pie was jettisoned for an older, more expensive and less talented version of himself in Joey Gathright, Koyie Hill was given $500k more than his replacement would have gotten with the same production, Jacque Jones was signed to do something he’d never done in his career, Dusty Baker was allowed to lead his team in a total lack of accountability “us against the world” movement in 2004, Juan Pierre was acquired for three young pitchers . . . .
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 31, 2011 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
And the common thread is . . .
MOST PEOPLE KNEW THOSE MOVES WERE STUPID WHEN THEY WERE MADE!
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 31, 2011 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I remember the past, but I see the present.
And it’s freaking ugly.
FIRE JIM HENDRY. Injuries aren't the problem.
Herbert Hoover was widely well regarded for solving the food crisis in Europe when in the cabinet
He was also a renown. Yet, he is widely remembered for being President during the Great Depression. It isn’t right, but that’s how it is.
Hendry, on the other hand, is a crappy MLB GM.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 31, 2011 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions
*renown engineer
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 1, 2011 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions
I remember that. I also remember not having the pieces in place to win a GAME in the playoffs two straight years
and the curbstomping that has been the last two years.
Be happy about something that happened 8 years ago if you want, I’ll worry about today.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
You're really going to argue the pieces weren't in place to even win a game in 97 or 98?
Really?? A team that won 97 games and lead the NL in wins didn’t have piece sin place to win a single game?
I understand there’s some frustration, but that team is all on the players, not on the GM.
it's because
we are only one or two additions from being right back in it… duh!
/sarcasm
by FloridaCubsFan on Jul 31, 2011 12:05 PM CDT reply actions
Just heard teams were knocking down Hendry's door for Grabow and he refused to even discuss.
Ok I’m making that up, but I wouldn’t be surprised if I heard it in the next couple hours.
Throw Blake DeWitt in that deal, too.
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This really is insanity.
This team cannot compete. Yet they’re going to keep the same players, and make a couple of tweaks, and this same bunch — ONE YEAR OLDER — is going to win next year?
Delusional.
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Beyond insanity...
What in the world are they thinking? Ricketts cannot be so naive to believe that this “core” can be competitive.
Al, once the deadline is over, can you disclose your information that you had earlier?
I have to check with my source.
Maybe. All I can say is this: I was told things were going to happen. Just because they didn’t, doesn’t mean those things weren’t true at the time I heard them.
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Thank you
I understand, it would just be interesting to know what was thrown around.
Do you think Ricketts handcuffed Hendry since he may be a lame duck GM and didn’t want him making any descisions?
That's a good question.
I honestly do not know.
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that would be an epically bad way to run a franchise
If Hendry is a lameduck, you fire him. Keeping the team in tact because sooner or later you’re going to fire someone is how you run a last place ballclub
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 31, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Honestly Al
Have the things your “sources” told you ever actually come to pass?
I’m not talking about “true at the time” I’m talking about have any rumors your sources told you ACTUALLY HAPPENED.
Because it seems like every year you do this, and when it doesn’t happen it is “it was true at the time!”
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 31, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think it's safe to say that what you heard was thought to be true, at least at the time.
I read somewhere that the Cubs brass was getting together this weekend all “war room” style, in anticipation of making several deals, or at the very least attempting to do so.
Yet everything we read is that they don’t want to trade this guy, that guy, any guys. It’s really beyond baffling. Even if that tired argument of the fanbase won’t allow them to rebuild has any merit (and I’ve never bought in), this team is God-awful. What’s the fanbase gonna do now that they wouldn’t do if they rebuilt?
I’m not a proponent of just dealing guys for nothing, but damn, there’s gotta be something out there to be done!?!?!?!
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
Has your source...
Ever been right about anything that wasn’t already a given? I think maybe its time to scrap deep throat or whatever your calling him these days.
On top of that, it's pretty hard to believe that last week, the club was looking to make some big changes
and then suddenly this week, they changed their minds. Al’s source either isn’t nearly as tied in as Al would like to believe or he was flat out lieing to Al.
I don’t buy the “True at the time” stuff because it doesn’t make any sense.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 31, 2011 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I don’t buy the "True at the time" stuff because it doesn’t make any sense.
Of course it does. Why can’t you understand this?
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Because I don't believe the team COMPLETELY changed their approach
to the deadline inside of five days.
If they DID do that, it would be even more disconcerting, because it would show a COMPLETE lack of direction. While Jim Hendry is an idiot, I don’t think he’s manic depressive. I don’t think he ever had any intention of being a “seller” at the deadline.
You still haven’t answered the question. Has “DeepGoat” ever told you something that ACTUALLY HAPPENED. Other than the obvious stuff. I’m talking insider info that wasn’t just right “at the time” but turned out to be… right.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
No one changed an approach.
It may be that things simply didn’t happen the way they might have been planned a week before.
That’s plausible, right?
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It's BARELY plausible
You don’t go from “Big changes are coming!” to “No changes are coming” without either someone being very wrong, or the team’s approach to the deadline drastically changing.
I’ll even say that maybe the team had hoped that they would be knocked over with ridiculous trade offers, but that shouldn’t have been what was planned. Like I said, either your source wants to be more tuned in than he is, or YOU want him to be more “in the know” than he actually is.
I’d still really like an answer to my question.
Other than that, I’m gonna let this go, but you really need to give a little thought to NOT rushing into every thread where a trade rumor is posted with “this is pure speculation!” because in the end much of the speculation that was posted by others came FAR closer to the end result than yours did.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 1, 2011 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Sorry I missed this before.
I’m trying to answer this question the best way I know how, without compromising my source.
I was told some things. Only the Fukudome deal, among them, actually happened. The rest? Well, maybe they DID intend to make deals a week before but got offers Hendry decided weren’t worth it — after I was told.
That’s the best I can tell you. Maybe I can find out more later. I have never claimed my source knows everything.
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To be fair to Al
Even the best sources can pass along completely accurate information about a team’s plans, but unless “the thing” happens, there’s no way to prove that you were right at the time.
By way of example, the Cubs probably have “explored” dozens of trades over the past couple of weeks. If someone says, “I’m hearing that the Cubs are a exploring a trade of Sean Marshall,” that someone could be dead on the money. But, if Marshall is not ultimately traded, that person is left holding the bag.
If you require “the thing” to happen every time you judge the veracity of a rumor, you’re going to be disappointed 95% of the time – because that’s how it factually plays out. You’re also going to hear a whole lot fewer rumors.
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
by Brett Taylor on Aug 1, 2011 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
That's all well and good, but as I've said a couple of times now
His claims of having inside info would be much easier to take if he didn’t rush out to shoot down literally EVERY other trade rumor out there as “unsubstantiated”
If you’re going to offer up unsubstantiated rumors, don’t freak out when others do the same.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
Actually, that's fari.
I’ll try to do less of shooting down other rumors in the future… as long as everyone doesn’t get all breathless about every tweet they see.
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When it comes to Marmol, Marshall, and Soto
These guys can still be traded before the start of next season. The trade market for these players may be better in the off-season than it is now.
I doubt anyone is offering anything much for Grabow. Sure, saving a few dollars would be nice, but I’m not sure how much really – $500K at the most?
Pena is the one that has me scratching my head. If they feel that he’d be a B FA and what they are being offered is less than that, then that explains a lot.
by jerry morales rules on Jul 31, 2011 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
This same bunch +
hopefully/probably a couple of really strong FAs.
Also, while there’s veterans on this team this isn’t exactly an old team….we’re young at C, SS, 2B, RF, the bullpen, and probably soon enough CF. That’s not even talking about pre-prime SPs Garza and Wells.
They’re not obligated to hand other MLB teams their good, young players. In fact, they’d be utter fools to do so.
C, 2B, RF
Inconsistent, unproven and God-awful.
But at least they’re young!
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 31, 2011 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Really? Soto is God-awful?
Even in this, his terrible year, he’s a top 10 catcher in all of baseball.
soto: inconsistent
barney: unproven
colvin: god awful
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Jul 31, 2011 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 1, 2011 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Soto's fine.
The other two…yeah…but that’s why I look to push Beltran in RF and LeMahieu at 2B.
do you really want beltran for 5 years?
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Jul 31, 2011 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Considering the class of player he is...
I’d expect good production in 4 of those 5 years, so sure since that might be the FA price.
Ideally I’d look for anywhere from 2-4.
No way on Beltran
He’s 35 next year.
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It should
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
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Yes well the surgery was supposed to finish him too...
Look where that ended. 35 is just a number. If he was 35 and he’d always sucked, then sure I’d be a little iffy. But this is a 35 year old who was an elite player and still has yet to win a WS.
There’s risk in signing anyone. That’s why you take an extremely careful look at the talent available. He’ll be the best FA OF next year….
Also, he’s 3rd in line behind Fielder and Wilson, both who should be pursued a little harder.
Why can't you go back to your
Upton love?
I would rather the Cubs sell their top talent in the minors for Justin or B.J. Upton than sign Beltran to a 4YR/$65M deal.
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
and THAT'S why we put so little stock in what you say.
I think you ARE Jim Hendry
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
This is a team that needs to rebuild for years to come.
If we sign a 35 year old outfielder and he doesn’t produce, we’re stuck with him for the next 5 years, when we most likely will be quite handicapped by his contract.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 1, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Soriano produced even more than Beltran in the years before we signed him.
Now he’s just a dandy to have around!
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 2, 2011 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions
No he didn't.
Soriano from ‘01-’06: 20.6 WAR
Beltran from ‘01-’06: He beats him by 2004 with 24.something.
I’m really not sure you guys understand the kind of player Beltran was. You need to understand that before you get why I’m saying he’ll be a good buy.
He’s 23rd all time in BRefs’s power/speed numbers…check out the guys on that list…Joe Morgan was worth anywhere from 2.-5.5 WAR in his age 36-40 seasons….we all know what Bonds did…Rickey is probably still playing, and he’s probably the best player on the field where he’s at…Winfield put up 5.5 WAR at 36 and 4 at 40….Sheffield put up an .823 OPS in over 300 PA with the Mets at 40….Steve Finley played into his 40s…
He is/was known as a historically base stealer. SBs don’t play into his game today, but the intelligent and aptitude to be as efficient as he was certainly does.
Plus, I don’t think he’s asking for 5 years nor do I think the price will be too outrageous. Maybe something like 4/45 or something…at least that’s as high as I’d go. Maybe 5/50 if playing ‘til he’s 40 is that big a deal to him.
In a 5 year span, that's not even 1 win a year.
I’ll still pass.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 3, 2011 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Your math doesn't really work....
but agree to disagree is fine.
Well, I'm not gonna sit here and call your opinion dumb just because your Senor Gato...
He could be productive in those years, maybe he isn’t, we won’t know for awhile.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 3, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not going going to sit here and call you dumb
.for your opinion, but I would like to know how you worked that out to less than one win a year.
You can play “he can but he might not be” with ANYONE in any sport at any moment…or really anyone in existence. The point is to hedge your bet with facts and information, and there’s alot of info that says this guy can play even at the ancient age of 35.
If his WAR is 5 points better over a 5 year span
Then he averages 1 point of WAR better in a season. Soriano even had a better season at the age of 30. This club isn’t in a position to take a risk on someone who could decline to an exoskeleton of his former self for $12 million a year.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 3, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
What?
Beltran passed him by 5 WAR and I didn’t even reach ‘06 for him. If I did go to ’06 then we’re talking ~35/36 WAR….the difference of which is roughly 8 low end starter quality seasons (2 WAR) or 3.something/4 really good starter seasons (4 WAR)….Beltran is and was a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better player than Soriano.
So again, your math was off. Soriano has had one season in his career (2007) where he was better than Beltran in a year.
Also again, you’re running the risk of a player falling apart with literally any player.
Does he have a young body?
"The cheaper the hood, the gaudier the talk" - Philip Marlowe
by ForTheLoveOfBiitner on Aug 1, 2011 1:17 AM CDT up reply actions
3 for me should be the max considering his age and his knees
but beltran has absolutely no incentive to come here, due to the teams that will be after him in the offseason
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Jul 31, 2011 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions
No mention of what they offered in exchange.
Yes, Marmol’s been maddening this year. He’s consistently inconsistent.
Still, there’s really no point in just giving him away.
Until I see what Texas was offering I’m not going to get upset about this.
by MN exile on Jul 31, 2011 12:19 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
If they were taking on Marmol's deal, I would be listening.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Texas just bought 2 setup guys
They gave up a lot...
especially for Adams. Uehara, not so much, but the Orioles are probably pretty happy.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 2, 2011 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm with all of you.
I just dont get it. I dont understand why they think that all this team is missing are a few pieces. What can they even add next year? Where will there be any openings? Talk is of resigning Ramirez for a two year deal, so you have him castro who is not a problem by any means, barney/ baker, they wont trade pena so lets assume that he will be back. Colvin, Byrd, and Soriano. Next years team will be the exact same and they will probably still raise ticket prices. Its ridiculous get some prospects who can help.
by AkronCubs...Why? on Jul 31, 2011 12:29 PM CDT reply actions
ridiculous
I just dont know what he is thinking, I mean I cannot believe that he is that dumb not to trade anybody else… I just dont know, this team will not win together and why he refuses to blow it up is beyond me
by AkronCubs...Why? on Jul 31, 2011 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
"T!" Woooo!!!! "J!" Whooooo!!!! "11!" Whoooooooooooo!!!!!
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
by davidalanu on Jul 31, 2011 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Maybe it was a crappy offer.
Fasten those seat belts...
by katie casey on Jul 31, 2011 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
IMprobable.
Hendry is just stupid. Nowhere near as smart as us Armchair guys.
Right, there's no way we'd get anything good back.
It’s not like the Rangers traded anyone good for Mike Adams, right? Oh wait….
A couple of soft tossing pitchers with good numbers?
One being RH…ooh what a steal.
http://www.bbtia.com/home/2010/4/19/highest-ceilings-in-the-rangers-system-joe-wieland-21.html
http://www.bbtia.com/home/2010/5/7/highest-ceilings-in-the-rangers-system-robbie-erlin-15.html
What about these guys is so amazing that we should be selling Marmol during a down year for them?
Now if they were talking Holland...or another hard throwing young pitcher...
then yeah, they could have Marmol. Otherwise, chalk that up to another guy worth more to the Cubs moving forward than the Rangers were willing to pay.
A top 50 prospect who's better than any pitcher in our system
Along with another top 5 prospect from one of baseball’s best farm system. Take the blinders off, that was a very good return for a set up man.
Neither offers McNutt's upside....
Neither profiles as anything more than a 3-4 starter. You’re clinging to the fact that they’re top propsects in the Rangers system with no actual knowledge of the Rangers system…it’s loaded…they have ALOT of arms with more upside, more velocity, more size…What’s Erlin’s upside? Joe Saunders? Pass.
I’m not saying it’s a bad deal or that they’re bad prsopects. I’m saying, that they shouldn’t land Marmol or Marshall. I’d expect more, and I’d turn down any and every offer until I got more.
Are you being cereal right now?
You trade a soon-to-be overpaid closer for two cost-controlled 3-4 starters every day of the week. I’m not even that big of a fan of those two guys, but I’m an even smaller fan of paying a closer as much money as Marmol will make in 2012 and 2013. It really is a terrible waste of money unless you already have both the offense and rotation filled out. We don’t have either.
For the record
I’m not in the “Hendry must sell everything at all costs!” camp. And we obviously don’t know if these 2 guys were even being offered. But if they were, Hendry is a moron for not jumping on it.
Why would anyone do tha
“any day of the week?”
ACTUALLY, if the situation was that they were ML 3-4 starters and not guys who MIGHT he 3-4 starters…yes, that’s an excellent deal. But they’re not, and more than being a closer Marmol has had flashes of dominance out of the big league pen.
Money to talent is not even close to an issue to me. This teams worry is not money, it’s winning and getting players who can help win.
by SenorGato on Jul 31, 2011 6:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
That's just not true
Money is a HUGE issue. We don’t have nearly the money available this offseason that some are thinking. It’s much more along the lines of $18-20 million, rather than the $30 million that some think. $7 million would be freed up by trading Marmol, and you would add 2 arms that would immediately jump in the organization’s top 10. Then you have the $10 million extra that would come available post-2012. Have you seen that FA class? Crazy good pitching should be available.
But the real problem is your attitude that “money to talent is not even close to an issue to me”. I just can’t reason with someone that is fine overpaying for production.
by RynoRooter on Jul 31, 2011 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I really don't think we're seeing....
20+ million in raises for guys.
Also, the number is closer (or over) to 40 million in freed up money. Money isn’t an issue to this club, but having talent that can contribute ASAP is.
I know the 2013 class, but the FA class I’m worried about getting through first is the 2012 one. The Cubs have a great opportunity to lay a foundation for the short term future and long term future with a Fielder/Pujols + pitcher or OF signing…They should have money to spend in 2013 too, hopefully.
SG
Don’t sleep on Wieland man. I personally played against him for 3 years. look at his K/BB and tell me he’s not something special. Also, I wouldn’t call sitting 90-95 MPH “soft tossing”. You need to look at the entire picture. The Padres got a STEAL.
I read 88-93.
From what I’ve seen he can probably hit 95 on a given pitch, but I’m thinking the 88-93 is around what we’d see in the majors.
I wouldn’t call it a steal so much as lottery ticket currently performing well.
Oh I take that last line back.
I don’t see him as a future TOR guy though. I thought more of a Jake Westbrook type with the same kind of loopy curveball Westbrook throws/threw.
I didn't realize Westbrook had Halladay-like control
Also, Wieland’s CB is much tighter. You have to keep in mind that this kid is wire thin and 6’2. As he fills out that frame he’s going to be sitting around 93-95 most likely. I’d say Westbrook would be his floor at this point. I realize i’m a bit of a homer for this guy because I personally have competed against him and know him…but really, he is THAT good. And but TOR i was referring to anywhere from #1-3 starter. I think he becomes a great #3 guy. above average stuff with impeccable control don’t get you much worse.
He's also not as thin as you think...
He’s pretty well filled out to be honest….there’s 2011 video of him here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHtYb4MZPF8
Personally I think the mechanics are solid, but nothing about him strikes me as a TOR guy. I know what you meant with TOR because tha’ts how I use it…1-3. I just don’t see him being one of those 3…OTOH he has the body and stuff to develop into a solid workhorse.
You're wrong on all accounts SG
Here’s why: Wieland is listed as 6’3 175 pounds. That’s very thin for his height. Also, I saw him 4 months ago so I can confirm this.
Also: K/BB ratios for Halladay and Wieland.
Halladay: Age 21 at AAA 116 IP 71/53 K/BB
Wieland: Age 21 at A+/AA 129 IP 132/15 K/BB
Halladay: This year 162 IP 152/19 IP
Looks like Wieland has a huge start on Halladay command wise, so perhaps that wasn’t a fair comparison on my part. Perhaps Strasburg-like control would have been more accurate. Also, the kid just threw a no hitter a few nights ago. This guy’s CB is above average as well as his CU. When you can throw both of those pitches with above average movement and elite control, I don’t care if your "only throwing 90-95 MPH, everything else plays up. Just watch, he’s going to be a TOR. I’d put my money on it.
Also worth noting that he's had 11 walks since he moved up to AA - most likely nerves.
He had 96K and 4BB in 85.2 innings at A+ as a 21 year old. The old 24/1 K/BB ratio is slightly above average I’d say, as is the 10 K/9 and the 0.42 BB/9.
To think we could have gotten him for Marmol
pisses me off beyond belief. We really don’t have a single pitcher in our system with anywhere near that type of command. My disgust of Hendry has just moved from strong to passionate
There are almost no pitchers in the minors with that type of command... they typically don't exist at 21.
However, I don’t think Marmol was of interest to the Rangers due to his contract – I think this who rumor was a little overblown.
Marshall on the other hand, could have likely landed the same package.
And thanks for posting that video
If you go to 2:57 on that video, he show’s a really sharp breaking ball, and follows that with a nice CU. Quite a few of his earlier curveballs were a little loopy, and the commentators we’re expressing that it was his first AA start and all of his stuff was a bit sloppy compared to what they have seen before. Not sure why you think he’s “filled out”. Dude’s pretty skinny, and I think the measurements I posted in my last comment proved that.
This from Sickels
“He already has a very good, plus curveball, and his changeup has above-average moments. His command and control are exceptional, and his statistical performance this year is outstanding: a combined 1.80 ERA with a 132/15 K/BB in 130 innings, with 113 hits allowed.”
You don’t have to take my word for it, but I’m sure you trust John Sickels enough to believe this.
by renocubfan on Aug 1, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Probably not, since it doesn't mesh with his opinion
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 1, 2011 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He has yet to respond after showing him those numbers
I’ll give him a chance to do so, but I’ve just about disproved everything he’s said.
He has yet to respond after showing him those numbers
dont hold your breath
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Aug 1, 2011 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh for heaven's sake
Who the hell “Brett” at “Bleacher Nation” who is doing nothing more than quoting some guy on the radio?
Again, anyone bother to ask the Cubs about this? Didn’t think so.
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Deal with it
I’ve already explained my position- no one ever seems to ask the Cubs for comment on all these rumors. If you have a problem asking for good information, I can’t help you.
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Are the Cubs the only people you'll believe? And then only their official press release?
I don’t get this tactic at all. There are plenty of people who are willing to talk to the press as long as their identities aren’t divulged. When they are on the record, they say completely different things.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 31, 2011 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
What "tactic"?
It’s how I feel. It’s the lawyer in me. It’s what I do for a living and it’s worked rather well for me. I tend not to believe hearsay- second or third hand, unsourced information does not impress me.
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To answer your question
I am “Brett” (is that in quotes because I am imaginary? I better get to a mirror, quick!) at “Bleacher Nation” (again with the quotes – but, unlike with “Brett” who needs a mirror to prove existence, “Bleacher Nation” is, like, a real place that you can actually go. Hooray! It exists!).
Hope that helps.
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
Doesn't help much
it’s still all hearsay
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You asked who I was
Just thought you wanted to know. Oh, now I see. You were deriding “Brett” for trusting anonymous sources (upon which every sport rumor in the history of sport rumors was based) and George Ofman. I’m starting to suspect you didn’t really want to know who “Brett” was all along…
And, for what it’s worth: dropping the “hearsay” bomb might be useful in a brief (and even then, it’s overplayed), but it doesn’t really mean a whole lot on a Cubs blog. “Brett” is also a lawyer.
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
by Brett Taylor on Aug 1, 2011 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
You may want to get checked out for multiple personalities... you sound confused.
You talk about one of you in the third person and the other in first person.
by bdlugz on Aug 1, 2011 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pat Gillick
The only hope I have is that Ricketts has already made a deal with Gillick to become team president after seasons end. Gillick knows that the Cubs are a clown car, so he told Ricketts that NO deals be made until he can do them himself.
That’s my hope. Otherwise, I have no clue as to what this team is doing.
heath bell to the rangers
please be a crappy return so i dont get angry
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
or mike adams
the mystery grows
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Jul 31, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Evan_P_Grant Evan Grant
It is confirmed: MIke Adams acquired for Joe Wieland AND Robbie Erlin
FML
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Jul 31, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Is it same to say that they may have given the Cubs a similar package for Marshall?
I am completely unfamiliar with the two players Texas gave up, but in looking at the seasons they’ve put up at ages 20 and 21 in High A/AA, they look very, very impressive. Their K/BB rates are off the charts.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
seems they were looking for relievers that are under contract for next year
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Jul 31, 2011 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
i know
so i think it is possible that a package for marshall could have been similar
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Jul 31, 2011 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Definitely looking for better if it was one of ours...
that the Rangers got.
by SenorGato on Jul 31, 2011 7:18 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
This is why Hendry should have been fired a month ago
He doesn’t want to lose 100 games this year because he’s scared he’ll lose his job, so he keeps the “core” of this team together. Of course, they might lose 100 games anyways because they’re so bad, but this demonstrates why he shouldn’t have been trusted to make these kind of decisions.
Trades happen in the offseason
Or have we all forgotten? Perhaps TR would rather have somebody else direct the future of this team? It IS a possibility, isn’t it?
How are we supposed to know that individuals are going to be let go on Sept 29? How do we know TR is doing due diligence on possible executive replacements?
Well, we don’t know. It’s none of our freakin’ business until it happens. This may be in the works, and I’d prefer that over the constant knee-jerk firefirefirefirefirefire mentality that’s displayed on this site every 60 seconds.
If TR was to fire JH tomorrow, somebody here would say “TR doesn’t think his moves through enough. There’s no plan. What a jerk.”
This season is lost. I barely watch any games at all. Move on, you’ll feel better.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 31, 2011 1:58 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
You can't really be this clueless
And I’m sorry to insult you but it’s a pretty basic and well known fact that teams are willing to pay a higher price at the trading deadline than they are when the season is over. Never mind that guys like Pena won’t be ours to trade after the season is over.
“If TR was to fire JH tomorrow, somebody here would say "TR doesn’t think his moves through enough. There’s no plan. What a jerk."
Well, if Tom truly did fire him tomorrow I’d say that because there was no reason he couldn’t have fired him earlier and allowed his replacement to get some value in return for players that will give us none next year.
This season is lost. I barely watch any games at all. Move on, you’ll feel better.
So in one breath you’re declaring that you don’t follow the time, while in the same breath chiding those who actually still care? OOOOOOOkay
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 31, 2011 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I care, obviously
But I don’t subscribe to pitchforks and torches, because that’s idiotic.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 31, 2011 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Interesting
“This season is lost. I barely watch any games at all. Move on, you’ll feel better.”
So you care, but you barely watch games and want others to ignore the team.
Gotcha!
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
Trades can, and will take place later in MLB
Players will then have to clear waivers. Or you just are not cognizant of that fact?
Insulting anybody nearby is just more entertaining to you, obviously.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 31, 2011 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, they can
and as I said, doing trades now is far smarter for sellers. Or you just are not cognizant of that fact?
I always find it funny when people like you offer up insults and then get mad because others fire back.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
This is really dumb
his arm could literally fall off any day and then we would be stuck with him.
But thank god we gave him a three year expensive contract!
This is awful
Why is Hendry telling teams that Carlos Pena, Carlos Marmol or Sean Marshall are “untouchable”? Isn’t he aware of how awful the upcoming free agent class? Does he think it’s 2006 and he can just go sign Alfonso Soriano, Ted Lilly, Mark DeRosa and Jason Marquis?
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
Honest question
If Ricketts has decided that Hendry will not be the GM next year, wouldn’t you rather have the next GM make the decision on Soto, Marshall, and Marmol?
Pena should be traded though.
by jerry morales rules on Jul 31, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Tomorrow is fine by me
I think that Hendry should have been let go prior to this season, but he wasn’t, and I really wasn’t too upset. Once that decision was made, Hendry was going to be here at least until Aug 1. If he were let go last week or a month ago, I wouldn’t want a new GM just trying to figure out the system or an interim GM to make these moves.
The only things the Cubs are missing out on as of July 31 is maybe a few hundred thousand in salary relief (not nothing but not much either) and whatever prospects they could nab for Pena and Grabow. Grabow wasn’t gong to bring back much of anything, but it is debatable as to what Pena would bring in. Honestly, though, based on the talent that is being sent for the more average players, it’s not much. nobody is going to give up for Pena what teams gave up for Beltran, Pence, Jimenez …
If all the Cubs were going to get in return what Balt got for Lee, there is no big loss in not dealing him.
by jerry morales rules on Jul 31, 2011 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Very good point
It doesn’t seem fair or professional to leave Hendry out to dry like that, but it might be some sort of internal reassignment like when the Black Hawks removed Dennis Savard of his coaching duties.
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Jul 31, 2011 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
The Blackhawks did have Quennville ready to go
Which is REALLY uncommon.
Most organizations don’t have GM or Manager back-ups waiting. Some do, but it’s rare.
by jerry morales rules on Jul 31, 2011 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
And even when they do...
sometimes he doesn’t get the job. The Mets have been grooming Rico for years, but he got passed over for the experience and connected Alderson.
Depending on if you could get a player better than the potential compensation pick.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 31, 2011 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
The problem is
Pena apparently might not even merit a compensation pick at this point.
by Outshined_One on Jul 31, 2011 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
There isn't going to be a compensation pick, because Pena will not be offered arb. Also, he may not qualify.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 1, 2011 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions
He may be offered arb, it's not like Boras would let him take another 1 year deal.
He may not qualify, you’re right, but if he does, he should be offered arb.
I agree here
And it will have a chance of happeneing, as Hendry and his allergy to arbitration offers will likely be gone. Assuming, of course, that Pena would bring back a draft pick. Even if he somehow accepts arbitration, it wouldn’t preclude the team from going after Prince/Pujols. Pena on a 1 year deal would be easily moveable for a non-prospect.
It's a risk worth taking, I don't see him getting a return much better than DLees.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 1, 2011 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
That's probably best, your arguments are pretty weak
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Jul 31, 2011 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Not even remotely funny
It’s a rather tasteless and disgraceful remark.
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How is this tasteless?
You realize that the ‘69 Ford Pinto had a design flaw that made it burst into flames if it got into a collision from behind, right? He’s not talking about talking about anal penetration.
Right
And I’m old to have been around when some of them killed people. Where the hell do you get what you said out of it???
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Rear-ended
can be slang for anal penetration. I thought this was what you were referring to. Honestly, if that line above ruffles your feathers, you might want to quit the internet.
Really?
I never heard “rear-ended” to refer to anything but a car accident.
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I found out the hard way
that you’ve got to be really careful what you say around here when I accidently posted something once that had a bizarre other meaning I had never heard of. Yikes. Also, I’ve learned it’s best not to look things up on Urban Dictionary that are said in joking. More often than not it’s something I’d rather not know.
Fasten those seat belts...
Dunno what it says about you......
…… when the first thing you think of is taking it in the ass when talking about getting rear-ended in a Ford Pinto. And I really doubt I need any porn explanations from you.
Joking about getting rear ended in a Ford Pinto is just as tasteless as joking about 9/11. I feel rather sorry for you and anyone else who thinks it’s ok to joke about this kind of stuff.
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Innocent death is innocent death
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Yeah, stupid me for wanting things directly sourced.......
…. I mean, how anal could I be?
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After pondering my thoughts about this joke.
it is tasteless and disgraceful. Exactly what this team has been this year. I guess there is always next year.
A really bad joke
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I will lighten the jokes up for you.
Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
A: To get to the other side.
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Its a classic huh BeerCub doesn’t just tickle you every time
Be very proud
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What Good Is A Closer On A....
team that is as bad as the Cubs are? It reminds me of when the Cubs finished in last in 1987 with Lee Smith as the closer. Is Marmol in 2011 or was Lee Arthur in 1987 at their best? No, but they seemed to be good bargaining chips. All the Cubs got for Smith was Nipper and Schiraldi. The Cubs didn’t even trade Marmol.
Good things come to those who wait... and wait....and wait.
They didn't trade Smith during the season
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 1, 2011 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Fair Enough
There’s really no point in holding on to a closer, when you’ve got a bad team. If the Cubs get a decent offer for Marmol at the end of the season, they need to unload him. IIRC, the Cubs still had a winning record at the trade deadline in 1987, so the Cubs probably felt like they still had a decent chance of winning the division. The Cubs were bad in the second half that year and finished last. That’s why they held on to Smith for the whole season.
Good things come to those who wait... and wait....and wait.
Good example. Let's consider it a notch further.
Let’s take your hypothetical one logical step forward. Assume that Lee, like Marmol, was still young enough in 1987 to have been in his prime athletically for the next three years, and that the Cubs had him under contract for that time.
What might have happened if they’d hung on to Smith instead of trading him? Oh, right, he would have been there in 1989 when the team was good enough to win the division. Good enough, except that they didn’t have a closer, so they had to go out and trade for one. Which they did – giving up 10 years’ worth of RAFAEL PALMEIRO for a season and a half of one of the wildest closers in baseball history.
You may not need Marmol now. But if you have ambitions to be a good team in the next few years – as these Cubs do, and any large market team surely must – then you don’t just dump a closer because you aren’t very good right now. You only get rid of him if you have another, better option that you are sure about waiting in the wings.
by Orval Overall on Aug 1, 2011 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Going Way Back to 1980
I don’t know if the Cubs envisioned Lee Smith to be the closer of the future or not. Bruce Sutter was the Cubs closer on a last place team in 1980 and got traded. Lee Smith did a nice job as Cubs closer a couple of years after Sutter was gone..
In the current situation, Wood is too old and injury prone to be a dependable Cubs closer again. I don’t think Marshall has quite good enough stuff to fill that role adequately. Shark is Shark. I can see your point that we shouldn’t be too quick to unload Marmol.
Good things come to those who wait... and wait....and wait.
This appears to be a false rumor
A rumor that the Cubs spoke to Texas about Carlos Marmol proved to be false, as were rumors that anyone was interested in Carlos Zambrano.
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
To be sure
The rumor wasn’t that the Cubs “spoke to Texas about Carlos Marmol.” The rumor (from George Ofman) was that the Cubs didn’t speak to Texas about Marmol. And that’s the problem.
It tends to get under my skin when folks, after the dust is settled, “report” things like “talks never took place,” or “the Cubs were never interested,” or “rumors were false.” There is zero risk in saying things like that (you can never be proved wrong, because it’s after the fact), and it’s really easy to get quotes from management about NOT trading players (when does management ever want to admit that they were considering dealing a player currently on their team?).
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
by Brett Taylor on Aug 1, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
That's not how I read the report from Bleacher Nation
They say the 2 teams spoke and paul sullivan of the Trib says they didn’t. I don’t kow what the tweet from George Ofman said. But I think sullivan has some sources, or he wouldn’t write that.
Texas has plenty of debt of it’s books right now from their ownership sale last year. I’m doubtful they were looking to pick up Marmol’s $14MM salary for the next 2 years and his flattened out slider.
Sorry, but there are too many false reports out there. Not that it matters. People here will be blind mad so matter what’s true or not.
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 1, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Ofman said the Rangers approached the Cubs about Marmol, and the Cubs said no
To me, that’s not “speaking” about a player. That’s refusing to engage in discussions about a player.
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
Sorry - not sure that's true
I’m seeing reports that it didn’t happen.
Teams liked to call about Carlos Marmol the day after he had a bad game – the Rangers did not inquire – but that would have been selling low on a closer the organization still believes in.
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 1, 2011 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Hypothetically speaking
If you saw that many of your fans were outraged that you told teams Carlos Marmol was untouchable when the Rangers were paying steep prices for multiple relievers, how might you resolve some of those complaints? Might you pass along word that the Rangers never even tried to contact you?
To me, that’s at least as plausible as George Ofman flat out making up that the Rangers called the Cubs about Marmol (the Rangers were trying to add relievers – why wouldn’t they call), and the Cubs said “not interested in talking about him.”
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
How about neither
1. I don’t think someone from the Cubs staff is checking BCB for fan reaction to trades/no trades.
2. George Ofman didn’t have to make anything up. He may have just gotten bad information. Like the tweet yesterday by Ken Rosenthal that the Rangers got Heath Bell, not Mike Adams – MLBTradeRumors.
And from MLBTradeRumors, I don’t see anything on Marmol at either the Cubs page or the rangers page. I just searched for Marmol and nother popped up on either page.
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 1, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
We'll just agree to disagree
Good points all around.
But, I do have to say – I’m certain the Cubs’ front office is aware of what way the wind is blowing among fans (even if they aren’t specifically checking BCB (though I’d guess that somebody associated with the front office is)).
It’s part of their job to know how fans are feeling – we’re the customers of their business. They care what we think.
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
Because rumors are so accurate in the first place?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 1, 2011 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
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