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Around SBN: Ryder Hesjedal Wins Giro d'Italia

Chicago Cubs vs. Washington Nationals Preview, Tuesday 7/5, 6:05 CT: The Ramon Ortiz Era Begins

Darwin Barney of the Chicago Cubs throws to first during a game against the Washington Nationals at Nationals Park on July 4, 2011 in Washington, DC. There appears to be a Walgreens very close to second base. (Photo by Ned Dishman/Getty Images)

There's really nothing more to be said about Ramon Ortiz's presence on the Cubs roster that hasn't already been said.

Wait, yes there is. This is even worse than giving Rodrigo Lopez and Doug Davis starts. At least both of those guys are still in the 35-and-under category.

Ramon Ortiz is 38. Thirty-eight. When he takes the mound tonight in Washington, he will be the oldest member of the Cubs -- by three years. Outside of 16 pretty bad appearances for the Dodgers last year, he hasn't pitched in the majors since 2007. And he wasn't any good then. In fact, he hasn't had a good year since he was part of the Angels' World Series title team in 2002, which is really his only good major league season. And even then, he led the AL in home runs allowed with 40.

The scary part is that Ortiz had the best record of anyone on the Iowa staff. But does that mean he's got to be the next guy? We already know that the Cubs are 5-21 in games started by Davis, Lopez, James Russell and Casey Coleman. That accounts for all of the team's deficit below .500. To me, this is just throwing another game away. Pull someone out of Double-A who the other guys have never seen before -- at least, that seems to work when other teams do it to the Cubs.

Cubs lineup:

RF Johnson, 2B Baker, 3B Ramirez, C Soto, LF Soriano, CF Byrd, 1B Pena, SS Barney, P Ortiz

So let me get this straight. The Cubs are facing a lefty who's spent all year in the minors, the perfect time to get Starlin Castro back in the leadoff spot. Instead, he gets the day off.

Nationals lineup:

Bernadina LF, Espinosa 2B, Zimmerman 3B, Nix 1B, Werth RF, Ankiel CF, Ramos C, Desmond SS, Detwiler P

Star-divide

Today's Starting Pitchers
Ramon Ortiz
Ramon Ortiz
Cubs
vs. Ross Detwiler
Ross Detwiler
Nationals
making W-L making
his ERA his
2011 SO 2011
season BB season
debut HR debut
vs. Wash -- vs. Cubs

In an odd coincidence, tonight's matchup features two pitchers who are both major league veterans, but have spent this season pitching at Triple-A. The only current Cub Ross Detwiler has faced is Carlos Pena (0-for-2). Ramon Ortiz has a bit more experience against current Nationals; Ivan Rodriguez is 8-for-34 (three HR) and Matt Stairs is 4-for-13. Otherwise... who knows what we'll get from these two pitchers tonight?

Today's game is on CSN Chicago and MASN. Here is the complete MLB.com Mediacenter for today.

MLB.com Gameday

Baseball-reference.com game preview

SB Nation game preview

Please visit our SB Nation Nationals site Federal Baseball.

Today's first pitch thread will be up at 6 pm CDT and the overflow threads will post at 7 pm, 8 pm and 8:45 pm CDT. If you need more overflows due to extra innings or rain delays, post them in the fanshot section.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

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10 bucks says castro is back in the three spot tomorrow

Blake "The Franchise" DeWitt will lead us to the promised land

by jesus christos on Jul 5, 2011 4:02 PM CDT reply actions  

All snark aside (ok most snark aside)

Is there not anyone in organization that looks and see how different of a hitter Castro in the 3rd spot?

by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 5, 2011 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whose fault is that?

Isn’t that the job of the manager and the hitting coach? Get him to do some of the things he was doing at leadoff (such as being aggressive IN the strike zone and hitting with authority) and doing some of the things that he wasn’t doing too well when he bats lead off better (like working counts and making sure he’s getting good pitches to hit – he’s not doing that no matter where he hits).

Three is where he should hit, and it’s the manager and coaches’ job to get him to be productive there. If they can’t, well then add that to the list of reasons to start firing people as soon as possible.

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Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Jul 5, 2011 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

ya

Castro is NOT a leadoff hitter…the sooner he makes the adjustment to not hitting there the better

by hansman1982 on Jul 5, 2011 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can understand that argument.

And I agree he’s probably going to be a 3-type of hitter.

But if the statistics show he’s much, much better int he 1-hole or 2-hole than the 3, what’s the point of batting him third? He’s your best hitter—give him the most PAs.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jul 5, 2011 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

QIAFI

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 5, 2011 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

and I know the comments that will follow

but you cant have a hacker up there in the leadoff spot, you need someone who can draw some walks, someone who is like Fukudome, you dont want alot of 3-4 pitch K’s from your leadoff guy…

by hansman1982 on Jul 5, 2011 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think Tango et al. were the ones that said your best hitter goes in the 3-spot.

Starlin’s probably our best hitter, isn’t he?

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jul 5, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

there are a lot of different

statistical modeling that shows XYZ, I am surprised that noone has tried (in the AL at least) a modified lineup of putting the #1 & 2 hitters at the bottom of the lineup and moving the Fielder, Pujols, Rodriguez’es of the world into the 1 and 2 slots…gives your best hitters an extra 40-50 at bats a year

by hansman1982 on Jul 5, 2011 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nah...

it was a mistake to ever, ever bat him leadoff. He’s an out maker, which is fine when he bats in low-leverage situations. You don’t want guys hitting 1st and 2nd who make a lot of outs (and I’m not singling him out for strike-outs).

The case for this was made with Bonds when he was walking so much because nobody would ever pitch to him. Unfortunately, the team behind him would have failed to score runs without him in the middle.

“The Book” is great… using it’s recommendations can squeeze a couple extra valuable runs out of a lineup, but it mostly fails when it comes to sub-optimal situations.

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Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Jul 5, 2011 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

I actually like this idea for a lineup...

RF-Fukudome / SS-Castro / LF-Soriano / 3B-Ramirez / 1B-Pena / CF-Byrd / 2B-Barney / P (maybe swap Rammy and Pena in the order)

I have to wonder if using Fukudome’s great OBP and Castro’s speed on the basepads that would force pitchers to throw less off speed pitches to Soriano. And if they do throw off speed stuff, they would be able to see where the catcher is setting up and maybe swipe a bag with ease when the catcher has to smoother the ball on the ground.

by ubercubsfan on Jul 5, 2011 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not bad...

but Soriano’s OBP is a killer there. You’re better off just leaving Barney 2 and Castro 3.

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Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Jul 5, 2011 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

You might be onto something here.

We would do so much better if we had an 8-spot lineup that doesn’t include a catcher. Maybe we should sign some DH candidates just in case.

Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.

State high point count: 3/50

If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 5, 2011 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

FYI

Fukudome is #12 in NL OBP. Pena is #27, Aramis #36, Castro #39.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jul 5, 2011 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

No... they said your best hitters go 1, 2 and 4.

This is according to “The Book”. It’s not 100% right all the time, since teams are rarely optimal up and down the lineup. But if you’re not getting really good production from those three spots, you’re in trouble when it comes to scoring runs. This is especially more important in the NL where you really don’t want to bat your best hitter third because it’s way too close to the pitcher’s spot… it’s why you want your best hitter 4th. This is the #1 reason I really want Castro hitting 2nd and dropping Barney down to 8th… but the team still needs a productive batter at 3rd if they do that. Ramirez and Pena do fine where they are. They do their roles well. Byrd doesn’t cut it and Soto goes hot and cold and is the catcher which can be problematic. Soriano’s a little better than Byrd, but still doesn’t get on base nearly enough.

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Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Jul 5, 2011 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, you're right, 1, 2, 4. I don't know where I got 3 from, I've read that book about four times.

Here’s a good FanGraphs article. From that it seems like we’d do something like:

Dome
Castro
Pena
Ramirez
Soto
Soriano
Byrd
Barney
Pitcher

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jul 5, 2011 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here's a fun tool.

http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/LineupAnalysis.py

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jul 5, 2011 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd probably flip Pena and Soto here...

assuming Soto stays hitting better as he has lately, but flip a coin there.

Optimally I think you can just slide Soto in front of him, but Ramirez has it in his contract he has to hit 4th, right?

This is just about the most optimal lineup they could have… and it’s nowhere near good enough.

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Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Jul 5, 2011 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I find Pena/Aramis/Soto/Soriano so damn streaky I toyed with a couple ideas,

but think Pena’s higher OPS is worth the three spot. Pena and Soto have nearly identical career OBP.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jul 5, 2011 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I really want to see how putting potential base stealers...

 on the pads with 1 or 2 outs when Soriano steps up would effect the pitches he will see. If you were pitching and know that Soriano’s weakness is low and away sliders that end up in the dirt, would you risk it maybe getting away for 1 out and might mean 1 or 2 extra bases for a runner? Also, the runner would get a head start knowing that that pitch was on it’s way.

by ubercubsfan on Jul 5, 2011 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

We're like the slowest team ever.

There was a post a few months ago about how the last decade of Cubs are basically the slowest teams.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jul 5, 2011 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sure when I have plans you guys

cover some interesting answers to a question of mine.

BTW Dan he hasn’t gotton around to that book yet. I just reminded him of it so maybe this week. :)

by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 5, 2011 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes he is.

He’s also not a leadoff hitter.

by SenorGato on Jul 5, 2011 8:19 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

the cubs stick barney at the two hole and played theriot at the top of the order

im sure the cubs can live with castro there

Blake "The Franchise" DeWitt will lead us to the promised land

by jesus christos on Jul 5, 2011 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

His stats are better there...

not that it matters much, the flaws are still apparent. The team is worse off with him hitting there. It’s not the best way to use him. The rest is up to the manager and the coaching staff. If he works on his flaws, his numbers will get better. If he doesn’t, they won’t get better, and it won’t matter where the Cubs bat him.

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Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Jul 5, 2011 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whether he is or isn't...

the Cubs simply have better options to hit there, and they need him to be productive at three or move even further down in the lineup (which I’m not advocating since wins and losses are way back on the importance for the rest of this season). Johnson and Fukudome are the best options to leadoff on this team depending on who the opposition has on the mound. The problem against RHPs is not Castro hitting third… it’s Barney hitting 2nd. He does some things well, but sub .300 OBPs aren’t going to cut it there. Unfortunately, the team doesn’t have much better options to put there that are worth giving up the things Barney do well.

The Cubs need better talent… they’re not really arranging what they’re choosing to use poorly.

Today’s lineup should score runs, as much as any lineup they could put out there.

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Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Jul 5, 2011 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

half of this game

is 90% MENTAL. OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT

by Roman the greek on Jul 6, 2011 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

im thinking of changing my

handle to roman the ex-cubfan til hendry ramirez and soriano are gone

by Roman the greek on Jul 6, 2011 7:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hmmmm...

Everything??? Are these BCB bucks or real money? I see Castro as one of the few (ok, very few) positives this year.

"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011

by jeffstorm2 on Jul 5, 2011 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

i blame everything on fidel castro, thank you very much

Blake "The Franchise" DeWitt will lead us to the promised land

by jesus christos on Jul 5, 2011 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I too! And his pal with cancer!

Is he a Cubs Fan??? :)

"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011

by jeffstorm2 on Jul 5, 2011 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure why Ortiz's age matters that much when compared to Davis and Lopez.

None of them have a future with the team, so if the Cubs think Ortiz is the one who gives the Cubs the best chance to win, then let him pitch.

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jul 5, 2011 4:05 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Agreed

There’s a lot of whining around here lately.

"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008

by BeerCub on Jul 5, 2011 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, the Cubs are kinda terrible.

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jul 5, 2011 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Beercub- I just wanted to sa...

Oh, sorry, I thought your comment read: a lot of wINning around here"…sorry. :)

"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011

by jeffstorm2 on Jul 5, 2011 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Truer words seldom spoken...

"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011

by jeffstorm2 on Jul 5, 2011 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

SWL is exactly right.

Couldn’t agree more.

Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.

State high point count: 3/50

If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 5, 2011 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

"Era" seems like it has more of a majestic connotation to me for some reason

So I wouldn’t call a 38-year old making his Cubs debut a new era lol but hey…maybe he’ll get us a win tonight! Go Cubs!

Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.

by mikegncb34 on Jul 5, 2011 4:06 PM CDT reply actions  

That is a pretty stupid lineup....

Want to bench a RH hitting player, how about Soriano?

This team is ignorant.

Now were is SenorGato and NBF to let us know how great this team is?

by TJ11 on Jul 5, 2011 4:10 PM CDT reply actions  

Can't Get Greg Maddux Out of Retirement?

i’d rather have a 45-year old Maddux pitching than a 38-year old Ramon Ortiz.

2012 - The 104th time is the charm.

by memphiscub on Jul 5, 2011 4:16 PM CDT reply actions  

^Only on BCB, 2011^

Could you post/read something like this…and not be left wondering if it really DOES make more sense… Oh GrreeEEG … Yoohoo…

"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011

by jeffstorm2 on Jul 5, 2011 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

You know, it's not as dumb an idea...

… as people might think. I’d actually do that. Of course, it would delay his Hall of Fame induction.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jul 5, 2011 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, come on.

As much as I like Greg Maddux, I can’t imagine that he’d be ready to go just like that. He’d probably need a couple months to get into playing shape.

I’m not happy about the Ramon Ortiz era, mind you.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Jul 5, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Id say Greg has a better chance of shooting 80

then hitting 80 on the gun.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Jul 5, 2011 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I bet Maddux could throw an inning and be OK.

But not pitching for three years versus pitching in AAA?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Jul 5, 2011 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, they could have had him start getting ready a month ago.

I’m really joking about this. Mostly.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jul 5, 2011 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

I just want him

in the GM chair with Hendry as Special Assistant

by hansman1982 on Jul 5, 2011 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

♫♪ LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LAH!!!!♪♫

Hansman… must ignore all comments after: C-H-A-I-R…

"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011

by jeffstorm2 on Jul 5, 2011 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

You Know It's Bad, When,...

going with a 45-year old pitcher, who has been retired for 3 years, doesn’t seem like a completely crazy idea.

2012 - The 104th time is the charm.

by memphiscub on Jul 5, 2011 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Year 2.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Jul 5, 2011 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

ha

this way we get Maddux’s brain setting up the plan and Hendry can use all of his goodwill to butter them up for the closer…

by hansman1982 on Jul 5, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well Maddux did once call a game for Brad Penny

from the dugout and Penny pitched six scoreless against the Cubs.
Maybe he could just sit in the dugout and signal Ortiz and the rest what to throw.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either

by Doggie Stalker on Jul 5, 2011 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

In retrospect, I think we need to cut Quade some slack.

Many of us — myself included — were very critical of him for starting James Russell seemingly week after week. But given the other options, well …

The lack of starting pitching seems to be an organizational issue. If Ortiz really was the, gulp, ace of the Iowa staff, holy hell.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Jul 5, 2011 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've been pondering this same issue...

…and have come to the same conclusion. In fact, I would ask Al: Who is this “someone” from Double-A? Gimme a name. Because it really seems like no one is ready and it would be practically unethical to shatter some poor kid’s psyche by forcing him to make an MLB start when he’s not ready. Plus, the results would likely be no better than what Ortiz will probably give us tonight.

Baseball is pitching, hitting, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Jul 5, 2011 5:10 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I agree.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Jul 5, 2011 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

They'd probably be throwing it away in either case.

This way, no one gets hurt besides a guy who’s going to retire in a year or two (or less) anyway.

Baseball is pitching, hitting, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Jul 5, 2011 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's the thing.

The Cubs were throwing away games when they gave a young guy like Russell starts too.

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jul 5, 2011 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's a no-win sitchiation...

…unless we get another miracle start like the one Lopez gave us.

Baseball is pitching, hitting, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Jul 5, 2011 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Except then at least Russell was facing some RH hitters

I don’t want to see Russell start any more, but I thought that a couple of dozen low-pressure innings of facing RH hitting was better idea than the ghost of Ramon Ortiz.

Of course, most of BCB called me a lunatic or names to that effect.

Now, everybody’s in a tizzy about Ramon Ortiz.

It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??

by Invalid User on Jul 5, 2011 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd rather have Ortiz start than Russell.

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jul 5, 2011 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Talk to the general manager.

The lack of pitching depth (at least, depth that is ready to pitch at the MLB level) is the problem.

What would you do instead, if you were Quade?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Jul 5, 2011 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not a question of what Quade can and can't do.

You hit the nail on the head when you said there is depth that is not ready to pitch at the MLB level. Yes, the Cubs cut Silva, but they pretty much had no choice once he reacted the way he did. It’s not really Quade’s fault if he doesn’t have someone ready to start a game.

Hendry really should have gotten on his phone and instead of picking up other teams’ rejects, he should have tried to get us at the least a #4 or #5 starter.

Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.

State high point count: 3/50

If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 5, 2011 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't blame Quade for Silva at all.

Silva, in addition to being an ass, got lit up for most of the spring and rarely started after last year’s ASB.

I’ve also got to wonder if Russell’s time in the rotation will serve him well later as a reliever.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Jul 5, 2011 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Has anyone seen Maddux lately?

Maybe he’s been hunkering down at his local Bally’s readying himself for a surprise appearance after the All-Star Break.

Baseball is pitching, hitting, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Jul 5, 2011 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Um sitting in the Cubs dugout last week

in town for the organizational meetings. Not that Maddux EVER looked like an athlete but now he has an extra level of wine gut.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either

by Doggie Stalker on Jul 5, 2011 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, it's

not a bad idea. Tho honestly, the way this year has gone, is there really any doubt it’d backfire??? If Mad-Dog returned, he’d likely be scheduled for TJ Surgery within 2 weeks! :[

"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011

by jeffstorm2 on Jul 5, 2011 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh,

To be clear…that’s Tommy Johns Surgery… (arm) not TJ11 surgery (where you gain an inhuman ability to use exclamation points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :]

"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011

by jeffstorm2 on Jul 5, 2011 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is this a baseball site

or a beer commercial? I just wonder how much more shrinkage we can look forward to seeing……..baseball shrinkage, that is.

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Jul 5, 2011 4:19 PM CDT reply actions  

When I drank, it was a favorite of mine

until I became educated about GOOD BEERS

"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011

by jeffstorm2 on Jul 5, 2011 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Canseco brothers

Here are their current stats. You will notice one Joey Gathright too

http://yumas.bbstats.pointstreak.com/team_stats.html?teamid=11992&seasonid=517

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Jul 5, 2011 4:27 PM CDT reply actions  

Wow.

The Cansecos are 47 years old.

Check out the pitching stats on that team. Jose has pitched in five games for them, starting one. Maybe the Cubs ought to sign him as a pitcher, too.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jul 5, 2011 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

I read an article about this

Fairly easy to find. They had a game start at about 10pm and then had 3 consecutive days of double headers and then leave for a 27 game road trip. NUTS

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Jul 5, 2011 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh - and these DH's are being played in AZ. Yikes

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Jul 5, 2011 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Doug Dascenzo's 47

Maybe, the Cubs could bring him back to pitch an inning in relief with that SLOW curve ball.

2012 - The 104th time is the charm.

by memphiscub on Jul 5, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

And Keith Moreland catching!

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jul 5, 2011 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have a feeling both coaches would jump at that opportunity

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Jul 5, 2011 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is Sutcliffe calling a Cubs game anytime soon?

Get him back on the hill ASAP…

Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!

by DKT on Jul 5, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Assuming he hasn't had a few.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Jul 5, 2011 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

George Clooney

He’s trying to get everybody to go over there and solve that thing.

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jul 5, 2011 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I dunno...

David Wells did ok after a couple…

Do I even need to bring up Doc Ellis?

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Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Jul 5, 2011 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

If DeJesus is at short ...

we might be able to find a competent third-base coach.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Jul 5, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I thought it was a good time to rest

Castro. He was probably buzzing all day after making the AS game and good time to humble him into a thousand or so grounders. Q said Barney needs a day to rest his knee soon AO this ia probably good for him.

Question….do the cubs just tell 21 year old Castro without good command of the language to get on a plane at O’Hare to Phoenix and best of luck or does he travel with Q or do they assign someone to him? Travel is bad enough even if you are fluent in English.

We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.

by mrcubsfan on Jul 5, 2011 4:28 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Good question

although I am guessing travel is a little easier in First Class

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Jul 5, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

If I had to guess

there will probably be a member of the medical staff go with him…

by hansman1982 on Jul 5, 2011 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

He'll probably go with Quade.

And he’ll likely be flying from Pittsburgh, not Chicago, since that’s where the Cubs are on Sunday.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jul 5, 2011 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

forgot

Q is an All-Star as well…hopefully this means that, like Castro, there are skills there that just need refining…

by hansman1982 on Jul 5, 2011 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Any chance

Mel Clark or Chet Steadman are available for JH to sign too?

by jthack on Jul 5, 2011 4:30 PM CDT reply actions  

I Ike Barney getting an MLB game at SS...

I still believe he could be a Pennington/Everett type. Itd suck to trade him, but if his D is square at SS then he can start in this league. SSs don’t hit nowadays.

by SenorGato on Jul 5, 2011 4:38 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Everett may be a good comparison

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Jul 5, 2011 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Anybody else look at our lineup and think,

“Man, he’s an alright replacement / bench player.” But then you realize he basically plays every day? That’s like 4-6 of starting lineup every game.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jul 5, 2011 4:48 PM CDT reply actions  

And the guys who are better than replacement/bench players ...

aren’t good enough to justify the money they’re making, meaning they block roster spots and make it difficult to spend on other, better players.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Jul 5, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well I feel like I'm in INCEPTION.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jul 5, 2011 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or Groundhog Day.

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by Al Yellon on Jul 5, 2011 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hard to not have the same argument day after day ...

when we constantly have to hold out hope that things will get better when the bad contracts start expiring. And when the GM who signed the bad contracts is still, according to our new owner, the guy who will be in charge of the next round of contracts.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Jul 5, 2011 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

To me that's the reason I'm scare of looking at Pujols or Fielder.

I don’t want to continue the trend. On the other hand, both are really, really good.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jul 5, 2011 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Signing either guy would be exciting.

But I don’t have any faith left in Jim Hendry’s ability assess talent and therefore determine how much — considering the other budget constraints — is too much.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Jul 5, 2011 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

You probably want Hendry fired now

That’s fair enough, but I think there is also a fair argument to keep Hendry around at least through this trade deadline or the one in August.

We don’t know for a fact that Hendry will be in charge on Sept 1. In the meantime, what is Ricketts supposed to say? Firing him right now might not be the best thing for the organization. Is Ricketts supposed to tell everyone that Hendry is going to be fired soon, but not now?

by jerry morales rules on Jul 5, 2011 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tough to fire him now.

What with the negotiations with draft picks and IFAs going on.

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jul 5, 2011 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

There is an argument not to try to change midseason.

I don’t really care THAT much if Hendry survives the season, mainly because I don’t think there are that many valuable trade chips. And I think the one think Jim does adequately is make trades.

But Hendry should be gone after the season.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Jul 5, 2011 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

I thought he should have been gone before this season but since he wasn’t, there’s nothing else to do but support him making the right decisions.

I will be much more on board come Sept 1 to have him fired.

by jerry morales rules on Jul 5, 2011 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was OK with him staying after last season ...

because there really wasn’t that much any GM could have done with all the contracts on the books. And, hell, if Hendry had somehow been able to make a winner out of the carcass of the 2010 team, maybe he could have saved his own job.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Jul 5, 2011 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think there are a fair amount of tough decisions to be made

and I think the process for that should have started last off-season. Hendry was responsible for many of those decision and, by default, he can’t be totally objective on what to do going forward.

by jerry morales rules on Jul 5, 2011 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

When has he ever got value in prospects when he's had to sell someone?

I’m not excited about having him make deadline deals when he’s not able to fleece a team like the Pirates. Even they don’t have a dumb GM Hendry can take advantage of.

The Mariners did really well firing Bill Bavasi before the deadline and letting an organizational guy make the trades. I’d like to give Wilken and his scouting department a chance to do that without Hendry in the way trying to save his job and/or future possibilities of employment.

I’d also like to give the Cubs maximum chance of hiring the right guy to take over the franchise… and time is the most important factor there.

--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Jul 5, 2011 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Hendry's trading skills are overblown.

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jul 5, 2011 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

They're good when he can fleece another team..

and trade from a position of strength. He’s plenty good in the offseason when he isn’t having to sell players because of dumb ownership. I just don’t see where he has a great track record when it comes to trading for prospects and developing young players no matter whether it’s through the draft or anywhere else.

--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Jul 5, 2011 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think this is fair

Generally, the teams that have done this have been small market teams that have to trade a superstar player because they couldn’t re-sign him. When have the Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, White Sox, or Red Sox done this?

by jerry morales rules on Jul 5, 2011 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Phillies with Curt Schilling...

Sure, most of the players didn’t pan out 100%, but they did get real good value when they traded him.

White Sox famously did so in their White Flag trade with the Giants.

Yankees and Red Sox haven’t had to take this route, because they’ve been successful almost every year, draft and IFA really, really well to replenish their farm system, and don’t ever need to shed payroll, since they’re willing to spend their way out of their mistakes. They’re not worried about superstars leaving for nothing, because they’ll get draft picks for them and can buy someone else if they don’t have a replacement ready.

The Cubs aren’t on their level. They should be, but they’re not. Until they are, they need a general manager who can make the most of these situations and Hendry hasn’t done that, though he’s had his chances.

--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Jul 5, 2011 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Philies and White Sox were well over a decade and a half ago

Both of those GM regimes are long gone too. Big market teams in this baseball environment just don’t do that anymore.

Who has he had his chances with? Lilly? Lee? Was anyone, anywhere going to give up any sort of decent prospects for them?

In this day and age, the only guys traded at the trade deadline that bring back big time prospects are small to mid market teams with young, potential superstars that they are unable to re-sign.

by jerry morales rules on Jul 5, 2011 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

About the development ...

Next year, the entire middle of the field could have been internally developed if Jackson is the starting CF. How many teams can say that? When is the last time that the Cubs have done that?

by jerry morales rules on Jul 5, 2011 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's only 4 players...

I sure hope they’re all ready by next year and still producing, but it’s still not enough. It’s a good start though. Who knows how much further along they’d be if they hadn’t signed Marlon Byrd? We might even have a rightfielder and/or a player to take a lot of time from Soriano, so he might stay healthier. I do give them credit for Jackson and Castro, but they deserve their share of the blame for not having more.

--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Jul 5, 2011 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

But it's not just those 4

Marshall, Marmol, Cashner, Samardzija, Z and Wood are internally developed, though Wood precedes Hendry. I think the biggest crime in this is that they aren’t the “difference-making” players, the #3 and #4 hitters, the TOR pitchers at least not for the 2011 season.

I do agree with your premise that it’s not enough. It’s not. I didn’t agree with bringing Hendry back for 2011 and if there isn’t an open GM position for the Cubs by Sept 1, 2011, I’ll be screaming my lungs out.

by jerry morales rules on Jul 5, 2011 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

All depends on the length of the contract.

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jul 5, 2011 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or..."Somewhere in Time"

Author uses self-hypnosis to go back in time to find the pitcher woman of his dreams. Starring Jim Hendry Christopher Reeves and Greg Maddux Jane Seymour. One of the all-time best love stories (PS- Women LOVE it)

"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011

by jeffstorm2 on Jul 5, 2011 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey, did you get my email reply?

Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.

State high point count: 3/50

If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 5, 2011 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

yes, I did. Thanks

"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011

by jeffstorm2 on Jul 5, 2011 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sigh.

GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.

by shoemile on Jul 5, 2011 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

and hopefully ends...

The Ramon Ortiz Era Begins

There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?

by Zeke on Jul 5, 2011 4:53 PM CDT reply actions  

Clearly he'll toss a 3-hit shutout tonight...

Clearly

Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!

by DKT on Jul 5, 2011 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Did you mean to say he'll toss a three-hitter

to the first three batters?

There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?

by Zeke on Jul 6, 2011 7:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hopefully...

goes like Lopez’s last start.

--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Jul 5, 2011 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wonder if our good friend CubsFan21 is still posting at Federal Baseball.

Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.

State high point count: 3/50

If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 5, 2011 5:08 PM CDT reply actions  

Close Call?

At the ballpark now. The meter time on my parking spot runs out 1:45 after first pitch. I’m thinking that might be safe.

by 08Cubs on Jul 5, 2011 5:38 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

i cant

believe there are no other young pitchers on the farm ready to come up.is casey coleman the only pitcher we have?? and as we hurdle towards 90 losses i say,what the hell went wrong?

by NOMAR on Jul 6, 2011 4:25 AM CDT reply actions  

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