2003 NLCS Game 6: A Marlin’s Perspective
by Zeke on Jul 8, 2011 10:54 AM CDT
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PrintSome of you here may know I work seasonally for our local minor league baseball team as the official scorer. A neat job, really.
This year our parent club, the Toronto Blue Jays hired a new manager for the Lugnuts: Mike Redmond. Mike spent 13 years in the majors with Florida, Minnesota and Cleveland. He retired from the Indians last year and this is his first season as a minor league manager.
Mike is a very positive, likeable guy and has already guided the Lugnuts into the Midwest League playoffs by virtue of a second-place finish in the MWL’s first half (many minor league seasons are split into two halves with the top finishers in each half making the post season).
He and I have a good working relationship and in fact, the team record is 15-7 when I do the scoring (I share the weekly duties with another scorer). So Mike likes seeing me come through the door. (Superstition in baseball? Nonsense.)
I say all this because I intended at some point this season to playfully mention to Mike that without even knowing me, he broke my heart eight years ago. That ‘some point’ happened last night.
Mike was a member of the 2003 Florida Marlins. We all know what happened that year between the Cubs and the Marlins in the NLCS. Rather than rehash the negative, I was interested in getting his perspective of what it was like in the Marlin’s locker room after game 6 (a game that I attended with my family).
“The Bartman game? You were there?” he asked. I nodded. Mike said before that fateful eighth inning, “We (the Marlins) were dead.” Then everything began to happen and they watched it unfold in the dugout just as we Cub fans did in the stands and on TV.
He then mentioned game 2 (won by the Cubs 12-3) and that the Marlins players needed a police escort to get out of their locker room at Wrigley and onto the team bus. “It was crazy. Madness. The fans were everywhere and some were rocking our bus back and forth.”
“It was just our year. We (the Marlins) were loaded (with talent). We got a lot of breaks all year long and we capitalized on them.”
When you look back at the Marlins roster from 2003, it WAS loaded with talent. As Casey Stengel used to say: “You can look it up.” I have to admit, as a Cubs’ fan, I didn’t give the Marlins the respect they deserved. In hindsight, very dumb
So I asked again about the Marlins locker room after their stunning comeback in game 6. Mike said: “It was crazy. We knew- KNEW that we were going to win the series. The guys were sky high. We couldn’t wait to get back for game 7. There were over a dozen players in the lobby of the team hotel the next morning at 8am chomping at the bit to get to the ballpark (for the night game).”
And as we know, the Marlins eventually won it all that year: 2003 World Series Champions.
He said he and Kerry Wood were teammates last season at Cleveland and they talked about that fateful night. Kerry told him that he went into the Cubs locker room in the 7th inning and found that plastic sheeting was already going up over the lockers in anticipation of a Cubs’ win. Kerry ordered the plastic removed.
Too late for the karma of baseball, apparently.
Mike also said that Jim Hendry signed him to his first professional contract and that he has great respect for him. He hopes the Cubs can win it all someday for Jim, the team and the fans.
I replied that I hoped I live long enough to see it happen.
I think we ALL do.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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When I saw the headline here, I wasn't sure I wanted to read this.
But this is a nice piece, and Redmond seems like a good guy.
I only hope he’s right about the Cubs winning someday.
He’s definitely right about one thing: after the game 6 loss, we all knew there was no way the Cubs were going to win game 7.
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I completely disagree on knowing the Cubs would lose game 7.
Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t feel great about the Cubs’ chances, but I knew that if Wood pitched the way he had against Atlanta, the Cubs would win. Early on it was obvious he didn’t have his best stuff and I had giant doubts. And when Dusty didn’t get Clement up at all, I knew we were screwed.
I just felt it, that's all.
Sure, Wood going and all, it looked good. But it was just a nagging feeling, which unfortunately turned out to be true.
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I felt the same way about Game 5 in San Diego
I didn’t watch it (game 5)- I remember we went to dinner at a steakhouse with my mom and grandmother and I didn’t watch a pitch. It just seemed the outcome was already decided.
I had some hope about game 7 – I thought that if anybody could do it, it would be Wood.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
I was at Game 5 in SD.
Maybe it’s just because I was younger, but when the Cubs went up 3-0, I was sure they would win.
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Ditto 1984/2003
I didn’t even watch game 7 in 2003. My friends thought I was nuts. I sadly, was right.
In 1984, I had tickets to all 3 games. I reflected on giving my Game 5 tickets away. Again, my friends thought I was out of my mind to do so when I could see the Cubs win their first pennant in (then) 39 years.
Before Game 3, I was interviewed by a Channel 7 crew roaming the stadium. I was sky-high then. That footage was erased after the game, presumably.
I felt as if I was the only guy in the parking lot after game 4. The easiest exit from then-Jack Murphy Stadium ever with some 60K present.
I had to be convinced into attending Game 5. I knew…just knew…. Even being younger….(unlike Al below) I saw doom and gloom ahead. Just an awful experience, there’s no other way to describe it. The passing of Dick Williams brings up those horrid images again, locally.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 8, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I would have Traded
that game tying HR Wood hit, for a quality outing any day. I remember yelling at the time"They’re not paying you to hit that HR".
We all wanted to believe the Cubs were going to win game 7...
but deep down, we all knew better.
Jack Brickhouse: "Hey! Hey!" Harry Caray: "Holy Cow!"
Vince Lloyd: "The Chicago Cubs are on the Air!" Len Kasper: "Oh Baby!!!!"
Ron Santo: "YES!" "All Right! Let's do it!" "Ohhh Nooooo!" "Gee Whiz! Come on!" AND... "This Is The Year!"
by #1 iowan cubs fan on Jul 8, 2011 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm with ya...
…the natural emotion when you lose a tough one is to say your are done, no way we win the next game. Just as when the Hawks won game 6 in OT after coming from a 3-0 deficit in games vs the Canucks, most people probably thought the Canucks were done.
Momentum within a game, is much more powerful than momentum from game to game, we have seen that countless times.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Especially after his great performance in Atlanta, I thought Wood might seize the moment...
…and finally live up to his great potential. I’m sure the fact he couldn’t deliver must eat at him today.
"Elder White! Look at the talent on those Cubs!" Harry Caray, KMOX Radio, 4/22/62
"And you have to wonder – What's the matter with Broglio?" Harry, KMOX, 5/24/64
It does... I think he was quoted earlier in the season that he still thinks about it
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
I'm sure he's a great guy.
And I am NOT HAPPY FOR HIM.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jul 9, 2011 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I remember watching the game at work
and as soon as the Bartman play happened the phone rang, it was my mom and she said “they are gonna blow it now aren’t they”. All I said was “Yep”. Unfortunately I was right…..still watched game 7 but I never had much hope.
Mike Redmond is a classy guy.
My son’s first organized baseball team he ever played on (t-ball) was the Marlins and he was on cloud 9 to get his uniform and hat. I made sure we had tickets to one of the Padres/Marlins series that year (2003 SIGH). We hung out during batting practice down by the 3rd base railing by the visitor’s dugout, just a dad and his 6 year old kid dressed like a Florida Marlin with a big non-stop goofy grin. Players came and went, shagging balls, stretching, playing catch and going about their business. My son was kinda overwhelmed and shy, so I wasn’t calling out to anyone trying to get any autographs or balls or anything. Noah was just happy to be there to see the “REAL MARLINS” and I was just happy to be a dad watching him enjoy it.
Sometime towards the end of BP, as the last group was taking their last ups a Marlins player walks over to us and asks my son if he’s “ready to go in if they need him”. My boy didn’t say a word,…I was watching him waiting to see if he was going to cry or hide behind me…and as I was about to intervene he told the Marlins player “I didn’t bring my glove”. The Marlins player laughed and ran back over to the infield and brought back a ball AND two other players walking off the field (Luis Castillo and Andy Fox). They all signed the ball and my son’s hat and shook our hands and said “Thanks for coming out.” My son will never forget that day and I’ll never forget that Marlins player that noticed a little kid and his dad. That player was Mike Redmond.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 8, 2011 11:39 AM CDT reply actions 9 recs
Sounds like Mike. A classy guy indeed.
His own two sons are with him this summer, in the locker room, on their field during practice and having a ball with their 25 older brothers in the dugout. It’s a great thing to see and gives me hope that baseball hasn’t been lost for the next generation as “America’s Pastime.”
Keeping things in perspective, the Lugs lost last night and were very quiet in the locker room, When I went in to deliver the box score printouts to the coaches, Mike’s boys were sitting at the end of the team dining table playing cards as some of the players kibitzed on their ‘play.’
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
I think this is the first serious post you've ever written.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
If that's what you really think...then it's almost like you never knew me at all.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 8, 2011 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
In a word. Baseball
Great story – it’s the little things.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
This is so cool.
And I don’t even like SWL. Kudos to you, Mr. Redmond.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
That Marlins team was loaded.
As were the Cubs. Sometimes methinks we’ll never get back to that point.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Eventually. Everything happens eventually.
That’s all I can hang my hat on. If the Blackhawks can do it……..I totally gave up on that franchise in the late 90s……..
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 8, 2011 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I hope, fervently, that you are right.
Sometimes, I doubt.
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The real issue is building an organization that can build sustainable winning.
The last two competitive nuclei — 2003-04 and 2007-08 — were almost completely filled with position players from other organizations. This makes the window for winning smaller. The position player nucleus is older than if it had more players from within the system. The players are also more expensive, and their contracts more cumbersome as they age, get worse, get hurt, etc.
There are decided differences in the last two Cub nuclei that had shots — the first one was more beset by pitching injuries, the second by bad contracts, aging players and a terrible 2008-09 offseason. But if the team had had more position players from within, they would have both had longer runs, and less of a horrendous drop in 2006 and 2010.
The Cubs need to have more sustained good teams instead of ‘junk food highs’ that passed for better baseball in the past decade on the North Side. Other organizations — ones with fewer financial resources, in some cases — do this. If the Cubs can get there - where playoff appearances or even above.500 clubs aren’t so rare — I think the pressure will start to ease off.
We’ve been hoping that the Cubs would someday just get hot and win the whole thing one of these years. I really don’t think we can bank on that, because the pressure is SO high when we actually get to the playoffs. We need a team that has a young position player nucleus that can make a run over several years — kind of like what the Phillies are doing, and what the Cardinals have done for the past decade.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I've stated many times that I've been disappointed with how the Ricketts have run this org thus far.
Still, I honestly do believe that they are capable of making the right decisions that you, me, and everyone on this blog hope for.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
I'm beginning to feel the same.
are now creeping into my thoughts these days. Never did before, I kept the faith. Now, it wavers considerably.I have enough scar tissue.l I don’t watch many games any more. I rely on BCB to keep me posted. It’s just not very interesting any more. I cannot think of three worse games to attend than the final three here to end the season between two crappy teams. Of course, the Pads will take 2 of 3. Book it. I doubt if I’ll attend, even with free tix.
Perhaps such thoughts by others in Chicago will lead to more empty seats, and then the turnaround comes. I’d like to not be using a walker when that happens.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 8, 2011 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Nope
2008 was the last best chance. At some point, either the Earth will crash into the Sun or baseball will fold in favor of a combination basketball/ultimate frisbee combination OR the Rapture will happen and take everyone except me and Badger.
Either way, the Cubs don’t have enough time.
"It's all in the game, yo"
the only place baseball is evolving to is basketball.
The movie is based on the future.
Cool story.
I’d like to hear more about Prior, but I think it might work best to try and forget he ever existed.
Great story
I’d like to hear more about what they were thinking in that 8th inning though… kind of like a before and after thing. But I still remember that night, even at the time of the “Bartman play” the Cubs were still fine. The next 3-2 pitch to Luis Castillo was in the dirt and they had runners at the corners. But also, Prior had Luis Castillo 2-2 and Castillo fouled off about 4 straight pitches. It was like Prior was trying to strike him out instead of letting him just hit it somewhere. Prior was nibbling around the edges and Castillo kept poking his bat out and staying alive. Just throw him a fastball down the middle and let him hit it, Mark.
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
Mike is also the guy who reportedly rallied the Marlins' dugout after the Bartman play...
…yelling “Let’s make that kid famous” – a battle cry for the ages.
"Elder White! Look at the talent on those Cubs!" Harry Caray, KMOX Radio, 4/22/62
"And you have to wonder – What's the matter with Broglio?" Harry, KMOX, 5/24/64
I heard that someone had done that... wasn't sure who it was
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
Thanks for sharing.
Awesome story. We all know that the Alex Gonzalez error was the tipping point, not the Bartman thing.
Also, I firmly believe that the seed for the implosion in the 8th inning of Game 6 was planted in Game 2, when Baker left Prior in to pitch into the 8th inning of a game that was far out of reach. If he trusted his pen, he would have had Prior out after 6, but Dusty had a babit of overworking his starters, didn’t he?
Still hurts. Waaaaay more than the ’07 & ’08 sweeps.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2011 12:01 AM CDT reply actions
2003 Cubs Bullpen:
Antonio Alfonseca
Juan Cruz
Kyle Farnsworth
Mike Remlinger
Dave Veres
Mark Guthrie
Joe Borowski.
Who would you put in in the 7th? I trusted Borowski in the 9th that year. He had a good season. But I could not stand to see Farnsworth in there. He’s like the ‘03 version of Jeff Samardzija. Remlinger might have been the best bet. If I’m Dusty, I at least let him start the 8th like he did but get him out of there a helluva lot sooner than he did… or at LEAST go out and settle everyone down.
Instead, he puts in Farnsworth in a 3-3 tie and all hell breaks loose.
The 2003 NLCS…. :(
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
Matt Clement was available.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Right.
Other managers do that during the playoffs. Baker didn’t.
Lou Piniella didn’t, either, when he could have had Ted Lilly relieve Ryan Dempster in game 1 in 2008.
Sometimes you have to think outside the box in the postseason. Too bad the Cubs did not have recent managers who could do that.
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My long-held beef with Baker there
was in him not going to the mound to at least TALK to Prior after the Bartman play.
I’ve said it before. Whatever else Prior has been — phenom, ace, bust, employee, whiner, whatever — he was a 22-year-old kid pitching in the NLCS.
Maybe it wouldn’t have helped. But you’ve got to at least try.
"It's all in the game, yo"
Exactly.
It’s called “slow the game down”. That incident was the beginning of letting the game away. The manager’s job in that situation is to stop that process. Baker failed.
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Recently Eric Karros said
that he wishes he was playing 1B that night, so he could have gone over to Prior and calm him down.
That has always been one
of my big probems with Dusty . They saw the kid on the mound in trouble . No one thought settle him down ? This was the turning point in the game . Yes I beleive Karros would have told Prior take a deep breath or anything .
Farnsy has fooled several managers over the years, even the great Bobby Cox...
Big-game failure is the hallmark of his 15-year career, and his continued presence in MLB is indicative of some of the problems that make baseball tough to watch these days.
"Elder White! Look at the talent on those Cubs!" Harry Caray, KMOX Radio, 4/22/62
"And you have to wonder – What's the matter with Broglio?" Harry, KMOX, 5/24/64
Farnsworth has done a very good job as closer for the Rays this year.
At 35, he may be having the best year of his career — and only two blown saves in 19 chances.
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The relaxed atmosphere in Tampa must agree with him...
Chances are he’ll have another shot at the playoffs this year. Speaking strictly of his on-field achievements, Farns is to pitching what Milton Bradley was/(is?) to hitting, both with natural talent that seems to blossom only in a low-pressure environment.
"Elder White! Look at the talent on those Cubs!" Harry Caray, KMOX Radio, 4/22/62
"And you have to wonder – What's the matter with Broglio?" Harry, KMOX, 5/24/64
Must be nice to pitch in front of 15,000 people
Here’s what I’ll always have against that guy and what I’ll always remember:
2003 NLCS: 0-0, 10.13 ERA in 5 appearances, 5.1 IP 6 R 6 ER 6 H
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
In the 8th inning of Game 6, I would have gone with Borowski immediately.
He had a knack for getting out of trouble all year. In fact, in the packed bar in which I was watching the game, I assumed that they HAD put JoBo in for the 2-inning save.
Just thinking about this series rips my guts out. And then 2004, when Hendry publicly sided with Dusty and his band of @ssholes at the end of the year…. ugh.
The beginning of the end for Hendry. Stone noted that the Cubs hadn’t run a hit-and-run all season, and Dusty called that a “personal attack”, and out-of-bounds. And Hendry went along with it, saying that personal attacks are not permissible. Just the first of many, many instances of indulging Dusty in his fantasies of victimhood.
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by D98 on Jul 9, 2011 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Game 2 still ticks me off so much.
I can’t believe that 8 years are gone already.
Prior was coming off a string of 130+ pitch outings. We had a ten run lead. What in the hell was he starting the 8th with 100-110 or whatever pitches already thrown? Were we so afraid that our team couldn’t hold a 10 run lead? If so, we aren’t really contenders.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jul 9, 2011 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions
That was the killer. Prior couldn't get the first two batters in the 8th and Dusty actually had
to come out and remove his starter with something like a ten run lead because he was gassed. Inexcusable. I think he was up 8-0 after 3. Insane.
This post is such a bummer.
And yet proves why BCB is such a solid community. So thanks Zeke. Or not. I’ll decide eventually.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Interesting
Very good post.
Well written and insightful.
Can't we go ahead and officially replace Wayne Messmer with Dwight Smith?
I don't think it was just that the Marlins were loaded with talent
I think they also maximized the use of some of that talent. Getting Josh Beckett in 3 games, including 4 innings pitched in Game 7 – great move.
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
by RiskyBusiness on Jul 10, 2011 7:46 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Great Post looking back now
it seems like 2003 was just the other day . After the loss in game # 6 it looked like the Cubs were doomed for # 7 . The spark in game # 7 just was not there . This was the Cubs game to lose and they did .
Not sure if we will ever get another chance to go that far again . I can still see the weeping and shocked fans outside of Wrigley . Fans of all ages wondering what went so very wrong . We as fans know it went wrong fast .
Another thought:
We knew- KNEW that we were going to win the series. The guys were sky high. We couldn’t wait to get back for game 7.
Looking back on Game 7, sure, I didn’t think the Cubs would win it. But they gave themselves a chance. For crying out loud… they had a 5-3 lead with one out in the top of the 5th! Then, Kerry walked a couple guys and the Marlins got the hits when they needed to.
Then Josh Beckett came into the game. Goodnight Cubs.
But the Cubs had a chance in game 7. They, once again, just couldn’t hold a lead.
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
Alex Gonzalez is the guy I blame for the Cubs losing
1 out, runners on first and second (Ivan Rodriguez on first) and Gonzalez lets a hard hit but routine ground ball go into left field. That could have been an inning-ending double play.
It probably wouldn't have been two
but it at least would have been one at second. It wasn’t a hard-hit ball, it was a bouncer that he let go off the tip of his glove. The ball didn’t go into left field, it went just to the right of him and he picked it up after everyone was safe.
Having said that, I agree with you… it would have been a big play if he had at least gotten one out on the play.
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
I've posted this before.
If you get one out on that play, the next hitter hit a fly ball which would have been the third out and you go to the bottom of the 8th still leading 3-2.
Very different game entirely if that happens.
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by Al Yellon on Jul 11, 2011 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
only chaos theory would say if the out had been made on that play...
all results afterwards will likely be different
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 11, 2011 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Probably so.
But again, if Gonzalez at least completes one out, instead of making the error, things settle down and most likely, the next player does make an out of some kind.
The error opened the floodgates.
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All I could remember off the top of my head was thinking
“Everybody is going to remember Bartman and forget that Gonzalez’s error definitely cost us this game”.
Ok yes.
I couldn’t remember what the next batter did.
Ugh
Keep that Q Train rollin' in '11. Let's win it for Ronnie.
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