Cubs Find New Way To Blow Lead, Lose To Pirates 7-4
by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2011 7:30 AM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
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PrintSince the beginning of the 2009 season, before last night, Carlos Marmol had allowed four home runs in 195 appearances covering 192.1 innings and 840 batters faced.
Michael McKenry, though he had some power (.453 SLG) in the minor leagues, had 75 major league plate appearances before last night without a home run.
This would normally seem to be a no-brainer, right? Marmol very rarely gives up home runs (although of the four he did allow, two of them were to Pirates, Jeff Clement and Ryan Doumit) and McKenry hasn't hit one in the big leagues. And of those four home runs allowed since 2009 began, just one (to Hunter Pence last year) had been with anyone on base.
In this tailspinning Cubs season where games have been lost on errors and wild pitches and herds of elephants stampeding into stadiums (I made that last part up, but if it could happen, it probably would to the Cubs), you knew what was going to happen next. After a called strike and six straight foul balls, McKenry slammed Marmol's eighth pitch of the at-bat for a three-run homer that wound up winning the game for the Pirates, 7-4.
The Pirates have won 11 of their last 16 and stand just one game out of first place. How, exactly, are they doing this? Friday night they started four players (McKenry, Josh Harrison, Chase d'Arnaud and Alex Presley) who were in the minor leagues when this season began and brought a couple other people into the game I had never heard of before.
And yet, they win. And yet, the Cubs lose, even after fighting back from a deficit, blowing a lead and then taking it back. Alfonso Soriano hit a key two-run double. Darwin Barney singled in the run to make it 4-3 Cubs. Aramis Ramirez hit his 10th home run in his last 15 games. Even Rodrigo Lopez contributed by posting his second straight good outing, giving up three runs in six innings. James Russell and Kerry Wood kept the Pirates down. Then Sean Marshall gave up some hits and got into a jam that Mike Quade thought Marmol could get him out of.
That was the right call. Even when Quade does the right thing, it blows up in his face. Marmol gave up a single that tied the game, before allowing the home run to McKenry.
I wish I understood this team. One day they produce a miracle comeback -- it was mentioned on the CSN telecast last night that it was the first time a Cubs team had ever come back from an eight-run deficit after the fifth inning in a road game -- and the next they blow a lead with a guy on the mound who almost never gives up home runs, giving up a home run.
They'll try it again tonight; Ryan Dempster returns to the mound after missing one start with back trouble.
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The Pirates announcers were wondering why Marmol didn't waste a couple pitches with 2 strikes on McKenry.
They said he has a nasty slider and is a definite strikeout pitcher. All those foul offs were fastballs right down the middle. They said that for some reason Marmol was intent on “blowing away this rookie”. Big mistake.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
Gameday says he threw four straight sliders after getting to 0-2 on fastballs.
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Marmol
has not been right all year. He is clearly not as dominate as he has been in the past. His bread and butter pitch, the slider, looks flat compared to recent years. Hopefully he can figure it out.
Not accurate...
…McKenry fouled of some sliders with some pretty good swings, and you could feel that he was right on it when he hit the homer. Also, Marmol’s slider this year has had less bite this year than in years past, and he actually doesn’t throw his fastball enough to set up his slider.
It is amazing the Pirates are 10 games ahead of the cubs with 1/3 the payroll. They mentioned last night, they have also had 10 guys on the DL so far this year, so they have had more than their share of injuries.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Yes
In my humble opinion, the Cubs woes start with manager and coaching staff; how many hits have the opponents got on a 2 strike count? WAY TOO MANY; HOW MANY BASES HAVE BEEN STOLEN BECAUSE PITCHERS DON’T KNOW HOW TO KEEP RUNNERS CLOSE? WAY TOO MANY; HOW MANY BASE ON BALLS HAVE BEEN ALLOWED BECAUSE OF CONTROL PROBLEMS? WAY TOO MANY!!! HOW MANY ERRORS DO THE FIELDERS MAKE? WAY TOO MANY— WE LEAD THE LEAGUE IN THIS DEPARTMENT; HOW MANY RUNNERS LIKE SOTO AND RAMIREZ HAVE BEEN THROWN OUT AT THE PLATE? WAY TOO MANY; HOW MANY OUTFIELDERS HAVE MISSED THEIR CUTOFF MAN? WAY TOO MANY. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE THE CUBS BEEN LIT UP IN THE FIRST INNING? WAY TOO MANY. YOU SEE CUBS PLAYERS LAUGHING IT UP WITH THE OPPOSITION, AND THERE IS A GENERAL LACK OF CONCENTRATION. THE ANSWER TO ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS COMES DOWN TO MOREOVER,THERE IS NO PENALTY FOR BAD PLAY, JUST EXCUSES. THERE IS NO URGENCY AT ALL. . IF POSITION PLAYER WISE THE CUBS ARE JUST AS GOOD AS THE NATS OR PIRATES. YET HAVE ONE OF THE WORST RECORDS IN BASEBALL. WHY? IT ALL COMES DOWN TO MANAGING AND COACHING, WHICH WE DON’T HAVE. MOREOVER, THE DECISION TO TRY RUSSELL, DAVIS (ALREADY RELEASED) LOPEZ, AND ORTIZ AS STARTERS HAVE BEEN INEPT AT BEST. POSSIBLY ORTIZ CAN DO SOMETHING; LOPEZ, IN MY VIEW SHOULD BE USED OUT OF THE PEN. ITS TIME TO FIND OUT WHAT WE HAVE IN THE MINORS SO WE CAN FIND OUT WHAT WE NEED AND DON’T NEED FOR NEXT YEAR AND INTO THE FUTURE. HERE ARE MY SUGGESTIONS: PUT LOPEZ AND WELLS IN THE PEN; RELEASE OR TRADE GRABOW; BRING UP MCNUTT AND PUT IN ROTATION;.. PLATOON SORIANO; TRADE PENA BRING UP LAHAIR AND PUT AT FIRST; TRADE FUKUDOME, BRING UP COLVIN OR JACKSON; THIS IS THE MOST EMBARRASSING CUBS TEAM I HAVE SEEN IN 10 YEARS. IT ALL STARTS AT THE TOP. FIRE MANAGEMENT AND BRING IN A NEW TEAM. THANK YOU AL
NEAL
by NMarcot on Jul 9, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Whoops.
Your caps lock got stuck, it appears.
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Eric Hanna?
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
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If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Matt Capps
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 9, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
and his long lost uncle from across the pond, Andy Capp
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
wow
I mean WOW
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
my thoughts exactly
but im too lazy to type that much, i think it all starts with the celebs coming in to butcher the seventh inning stretch , it turns wrigly into a circus , and player are reduced to overpaid clowns, if lou had sent soto to the minors when he showed upoverweight after winning ROY i think it would be a different team
by Mike the ex cub fan on Jul 9, 2011 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Right down the middle. Gameday is not 100% accurate by the way,
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
I think McKenry must have cashed in one of these...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I really wonder why the Cubs consider Marmol to be untouchable.
I wouldn’t give him away, but it sure seems like he’s not the pitcher he was a year or two ago. Given that, and the fact that his salary is going to keep rising, I really think the Cubs should at least listen on him.
I know, I know — who would close for the Cubs if Marmol left? Well, Marmol’s not really closing NOW. And maybe somebody like Sean Marshall or even Chris Carpenter could make the jump. I doubt Carpenter’s ready yet either, but in a lost season like this, maybe it’s worth giving him a shot.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Carpenter is definitely closer material...
… with that near-100 MPH fastball. Not quite ready yet, as you say, but I wouldn’t turn down the right offer for Marmol either.
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A smarter front office ...
would be actively shopping Marmol. The Cubs are out of it, Marmol seems to be losing the slider that once made him so dominating and he’s getting more expensive. There’s just no reason not to LOOK to move him.
The Cubs would be in a good bargaining position, and wouldn’t have to give him away. This isn’t a Maddux/Lilly style situation where the player is a veteran/expensive/about to be a FA (let’s not open up the Lilly can of worms here). Other teams would know that in order to get Marmol, they’d have to make a really good offer. In other words, the fact that Marmol is young, relatively cheap and someone the Cubs could keep improves the Cubs’ bargaining position.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Marmol seems to be losing the slider that once made him so dominating and he’s getting more expensive.
These are the reasons they might not be able to deal him.
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Ergo, these are reasons he should've received a shorter/less pricey contract
It’s become apparent that niether Jim H or our org cannot accurately evaluate talent…
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
I don't know if that's 100% true.
Because I’m surprised as anyone that Marmol and his slider look pedestrian this year. Signing Marmol was a easy decision for many, of course hindsight changes things.
R.I.P. to my grandfather, Andrew Wiley
The reason I am a Cub fan forever
by Unique on Jul 9, 2011 8:40 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
G'morning Unique
I’ll give you the hindsight argument and I’ll raise you this;, it’s not our job to evaluate talent, we’re not paid bazillions to to this, others, the Cubs org., are. And, IMHO, they’ve done poorly.
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
I've gone on record for my dislike of Marmol
It may still be possible to shop him.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
If you disagree with me in any way, you are wrong.
I dunno I "dislike Marmol"
I just don’t feel at ease when he enters a game. I doubt Mariano Rivera causes that sensation…
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
a smart organization puts an objective of where they need to be 08/2012 and 10/2013
Then begin to answer the questions:
A) Is or will Marmol be instrumental where they will be at those points; (my answer NO), trade for best value…teams will bite
B) Question which starters/regulars will be part of those dates and objectives? Answer; Castro, Barney, Marshall, Carpenter, Dempster(?) Zambrano(?), Campana, Colvin(?), BJax(?), Soto(?), Castillo(?), Clevenger(?), Flaherty(?), Lamathieu(?), Vitters(?), Sczcur(?), McNutt(?), Russell(?), Samardz(?)
Therefore all others on the 25-man are no brainers to deal
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Marmol would be the easiest player
to deal for good value on the Cubs. However, would Hendry be willing to actually say the words. It would have to signal his departure as GM.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
I wonder why the Cubs consider Zambrano to be untouchable.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
I don't think they really do.
I think they figure that they don’t have a ton of starting pitching and that Z’s price tag (and other issues) mean whatever they would get for him would be marginal. If the right deal came along, they’d probably trade him. But they figure there’s no way that it will, so Z is — somewhat dishonestly — labeled as ‘untouchable.’
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
The Yankees or Red Sox can certainly afford to pick up the rest of his contract.
And he’ll be going to a contender. Why wouldn’t he waive his NTC? He’ll have a real shot at a WS ring.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
Why wouldn't he waive his NTC?
Perhaps because he and his wife are bringing home an adopted son next week, to join their three girls. While he would continue to travel often even as a Cub, going to an East Coast team would be very disruptive. Either he isn’t there for a few months while his children bond, or they move to temporary living quarters to be near him, which would also be disruptive. And that’s only the part of his private life that we know. Players do sometimes have other considerations besides winning a ring.
Angel Guzman is the man.
This is why players spout-off:
“I wanna win here, as a Cub”. Swell. I wanna be CEO of Microsoft… But it aint gonna happen (either).
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
Not the same thing...
To make that similar, you would currently be CEO of Microsoft and being offered a job for another software company based somewhere else.
I trust you see the difference from what you wrote.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jul 9, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
I-F you believe everything you read...
east coast teams (Mets/Yanks/Bo-Sox) have shown interest in Z…and he’s said “he won’t stop a trade”. In my mind it’s an easy decision, we aint winning it with him…so say g’bye.
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
And interest
usually includes how much money the Cubs will chip in.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
by rlpete on Jul 9, 2011 8:55 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
'mornin' ripete
yes, it does. If our past continue to holds true, we’ll eat half the cash, and Z’ll win the ring! :)
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
When we see the lack
of finding even a decent 4th or 5th man in the rotation, it would be a difficult thing to tell Cub fans that they’re dumping Z for prospects. Our system is devoid of anyone to take his place.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Fuk had a great catch.
It was a great game up until Marmol entered. Q said his slider was flat and I agreed, didn’t seem as if it had any bite.
The Pirates have drafted right out of Cubs territory. Leftyy reliever Watson and closer Hanrahan both grew up within 20 miles of the Iowa Cubs stadium in Des Moines.
Can this team ever catch any breaks for a week or two? I don’t think I like the answer to that question.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
by mrcubsfan on Jul 9, 2011 7:49 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
True on the catch
I just watched replay. Hellova play.
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
I thought Hanrahan was drafted by the Nats?
Wasn’t he part of the Nyjer Morgan trade?
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Jul 9, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
No and Yes
From baseball-reference.com
* June 5, 2000: Drafted by the Los Angeles Dodgers in the 2nd round of the 2000 amateur draft. Player signed June 22, 2000.
* October 15, 2006: Granted Free Agency.
* November 6, 2006: Signed as a Free Agent with the Washington Nationals.
* June 30, 2009: Traded by the Washington Nationals with Lastings Milledge to the Pittsburgh Pirates for Sean Burnett and Nyjer Morgan.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Once again, a big contract is issued and the player appears to decline.
Altho I know this is just the way it works, one has to wonder. Demp had a very good season and gets 50 mil…since then? Big Z (IMHO) will never post 18 Ws in a season, but he’s got 90+ mil to show for it…add to this Fuke and Soriano…collectively worth nearly 180mil, ya think? And now Marmol…IIRC, nailed down a contract of 21mil…and BLAMO! he’s off to possibly his worst year as a Cub. Now I know in my heart, this seaons craptastic performance can’t be blamed on Marmol…but when you’re so close to winning a game like last nites…it sure feels that way. Add in Aram (now perhaps the most puzzling question on the table) and Jim Hendry /pukes in mouth just typing that/ has some big decisions ahead of him…hows he done so far with dishing out major monies??? In a nutshell, what we’ve done simply aint working, yet we continue to “try”. In my mind, regardless of what team we field next year, it can’t be much worse than this…therefore, I’m of the opinion it’s time that Ricketts (w/Castro as lone exception) blow it all up… ALL OF IT…it’s the only way to be sure.
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
Was that an Aliens reference?
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
by DTJchris on Jul 9, 2011 9:17 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Indeed
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Well then
Warm in Roselle…but it’s a Dry Heat Man…
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
It's official, the Cubs will not win three straight games during the first half
A stunning achievement for even this pathetic franchise. Yet, our Chairman continues to sing seashells and balloons about our GM and manager.
Al, you should put the countdown clock on, only 46 losses away from 100. This team would have to go 26-46 to reach the magic number. Likely, no, but certainly not impossible for this outfit.
Wally Hayward, it’s time to play this song after all the losses, not go cubs go, but as Steve Goodman said, “The doormat of the national league.” This song couldn’t be more true some thirty years later.
Thanks MikeJW
I hadn’t seen that in forever…and it still holds true. :)
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
Is the glass half empty or half full
The Cubs only need to go 64-8 the rest of the way to get to 100 wins ans assure a playoff birth.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Apparently he threw down his headphones in a post game interview.
"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL
by HotDogDude on Jul 9, 2011 8:31 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
HDD- who is "he"?
OT- I betcha from your screen-name we have a lot in common… 20+ years in the fast service biz on my part… (and I don’t miss it!)
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
And to think for one moment I thought the Cubs might actually win this game...
Oh well, another game over and another game closer to the end of this miserable season…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Marmol's saves percentage is 75%. Isn't that good?
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
Are you being serious?
I hope your being facetious.
R.I.P. to my grandfather, Andrew Wiley
The reason I am a Cub fan forever
by Unique on Jul 9, 2011 8:46 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
No ronsanto10
that’s not “good”. If you’re gonna lose 25% of games you lead by 1-3 runs, you’re in trouble. Our Cubs are in trouble. Closers are supposed to be to most frightening vestige the opposition can see… the death knell, the “holy crap we’re screwed” of MLB.
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
Tom Ricketts believes it is
and he signs the checks.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Personally, I don't see how ANYBODY on this team could be considered...
…untouchable and that includes Castro who, at this point, is a streaky, undisciplined hitter who consistently fails to hit in the clutch. And yes, I know he’s young, still developing, etc., He’s also suffered IMO, from having a manager who is constantly moving him around at the top of the order (personally I’d advocate moving him to the seventh or eighth spot and taking some of the pressure off while he-hopefully-finds his game).
I’m not saying that they should be actively shopping him necessarily…just willing to listen to offers.
As for Marmol, If the right offer came around, I’d unload him so fast that it would make your head spin.
But. last I heard, our esteemed GM, who apparently has the job security of a supreme court judge, has said that he still hasn’t decided whether the Cubs will be buyers or sellers at the deadline so what do I know?
So wait.
You’d trade Castro because his manager has mishandled him?
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Agreed.
Castro seems destined to provide years of excitement, perhaps the lone bright-spot on a very bad 2011 team. Yes, some excitement will take the form of bad D…but the good should far outwiegh the bad.
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
trading Castro would be like trading Yount at 20 years old
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
To clarify what I was trying to say...
…I’m very pessimistic about our chances for developing a raw talent like Castro’s-the Cubs record as an organization for developing young players is not exactly sterling and then toss in a manager who doesn’t sem to have a clue as to how to use him…where to bat him, etc. and I worry that we might never see him reach his potential.
by bluekoolaide on Jul 9, 2011 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Not true.
who consistently fails to hit in the clutch.
Starlin Castro has a .288 BA with RISP. Games that are late & close? .290 BA. Those numbers aren’t exceptional, but he doesn’t consistently fail to hit in the clutch either.
Starlin is 21, and he’s going to be good. He does need to focus on being more disciplined and getting more power. He really needs to work on everything, especially defense. His error cause the Cubs to lose last night.
R.I.P. to my grandfather, Andrew Wiley
The reason I am a Cub fan forever
Um, hold off on Castro
Okay, I get the frustration, but to say we should get rid of one of the more exciting young players in baseball is a little far. I mean, that sounds like a Hendry move and all, but that would absolutely blow up in our face. He has a real future, and even though he is raw, he has the tools to be great. AND, he’s super young. Don’t forget that part.
by KennardHusker on Jul 9, 2011 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions
The problem is that by no stretch of the imagination...
…is he a #3 hitter right now. He’s being asked to do things that are simply not within the scope of his (hopefully) developing abilities.
As I mentioned before, I’d love to see them move him down in the order and take some of the pressure off while he finds his game but the Cubs don’t seem capable of thinking like that.
by bluekoolaide on Jul 9, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
The Frey-Sandberg relationship
Supposedly it was Jim Frey who helped Ryno develop his power and elevate his offensive game. Hopefully a similar coach will surface and do the same for Starlin.
And btw...as i wrote at the beginning...
…I’m NOT advocating shopping him and i DO understand that he’s still young and developing…I’m just saying that an organization with all of the problems the Cubs have, can’t afford to take ANYONE off the table if the right offer came along.
by bluekoolaide on Jul 9, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
just
not a very good team.there is talent here and i cant figure out why they collapsed exactly the same way as the 2010 team. is it the mgr,the injuries or maybe 20 out of 25 guys not doing their job? frustrating.feels like its been a 100 yrs since thepostseason.reality???3 yrs now.with the payroll we have this team should move forwards not backwards.the cubs need to sit down and figure out why this is.
I did not find method of losing very "new"
Yes Marmol gives up few homers, but the bullpen is exhausted and over used. I would be really really careful what you wish for in the calls to dump Marmol (not to mention Z).
While everyone one is writing off this year , a few of us would like to think that as bleak as
it looks the Cubs always have a chance to win in the next few seasons. Obviously there will be a LOT of changes, but dumping Marmol should not be one of them. Carpenter has great stuff, but so does Cashner and we got one start and an uncertain future out of him. Cubs have plenty of positions to replace next year, I don’t think closer should be one of them. Just let the guy rest a little and work with him.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
And...the voice of reason enters the room
Stalker, I think that a great many of us, myself often included, are just crying out in complete anguish this year. I can say this tho, I think we should at least consider any offer on nearly any player.
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
Agree, but disagree as well...
Marmol has the filthiest slider in baseball (at least one of the filthiest sliders in baseball), and I agree that clamoring to get rid of him is a bit of a stretch. Still, for the right pieces, maybe we make a move still. I mean, Marmol is a tough one for me. He can close games, but do you ever feel super confident with him on the mound?
True story here: Last year I am watching the Cubs play the Braves and my buddy, who is a huge Braves fan, texts me congratulations because the Cubs were up two going into the bottom of the 9th. Realizing Marmol was coming in, and realizing his penchant for walks, I told him to hold on. After he walks the first guy, I text my buddy back and say, “he’s going to strike out two guys, the next two will be walks, and the Braves will get a walk off hit.” It wasn’t quite that order, but he did strike out two, loaded the bases, and the Braves won on a walk-off.
I like Marmol, but he’s not Mariano Rivera. He’s just better than Gregg… I mean, a four year old monkey is better than Gregg, but you get where i’m coming from.
by KennardHusker on Jul 9, 2011 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions
No I don't feel confident when he is on the mound
but as I have mentioned before , I have not felt confident with a Cubs closer since Bruce Sutter and I am not joking.
What concerns me about the ‘trade Marmol, trade Z , trade anyone " sentiment is that ignores reality. Everyone agrees that if you could trade Soriano, Dome or Grabow for anyone willing to take the contracts we would drive them to the airport, We certainly think of trading Byrd & Pena & A-Ram for something of value fine. There certainly other players ( RJ, Baker, DeWitt) we would trade, but the idea of just blowing everything up and trading any player is silly. You need to think about the 25 guys on the roster next year. Anyone that thinks Marmol or Z in particular is easily replaceable is just not thinking ahead. The only reason to think of trading Pena & A-Ram is expiring contracts as we don’t have guys to fill those spots. Again you can’t just say blow it up and trade anyone. If Tampa Bay offers you Matt Moore & Lee back for Marmol well OK then, but that is not going to happen.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 9, 2011 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Marmol has 41 IP this year
Hanrahan has 40.1 IP. Why are we exhausted and Pitt isn’t?
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Talent
is one thing, leadership is another. Who are the leaders of this team? No one really springs to mind. Z tries to lead, but he’s a nutbar. Dempster is a leader, but is only on the field every 5 games. Buster Olney said it the other day on the Mothership. This team is talented but rudderless, no leadership with a rookie manager.
by cubfaninplattsburgh on Jul 9, 2011 9:43 AM CDT reply actions
This post says nothing of this team's horrid defense.
As long as the Cubs are giving other teams more outs, they won’t win three in a row all season.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, there isn’t a single thing this team is good at. At least other bad teams narrow in on a market and decide to focus in on some strengths. Whether that be finding strong defenders to support their pitching, or strong hitters to outhit their pitching, it doesn’t really matter to me. But hitting, defense, and pitching are all terrible on this team, and it’s really pathetic to watch.
No direction.
Leaders
I would say that Pena is the leader of the everyday players. He’s made more trips to the mound than Riggins this season. I really like Garza’s actions in the dugout too, he always seems to be the first guy to give a high five and seems very into each game.
You're right
Pena is the voice of sanity on this team. But Quade definitely isn’t and that’s who makes the lineup. Just wait until he leaves and you’ll hear a cacophony of criticism of his management. Right now he’s the buffer between the fans and the players so he serves their purpose.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
"Cubs find new way to "
feels like has been the title to something like 100 of these things now over the years. If you’re supposed to learn from your mistakes, you’d think the Cubs would be perfect by with however many “new” mistakes they’ve made to lose games.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 10:06 AM CDT reply actions
The titles are evidence that Al doesn't really know what he's watching.
They’ve been losing due to bad fundamentals and inability of Marmol to get the job done.
That’s hardly a “new way” of losing. Hell, they’ve done it like that about 3 times in the last week.
The "new way" was allowing a three-run homer.
I’m well aware of the bad fundamentals.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
They have to of covered every way to lose by this point
right?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions
You'd think.
Haven’t allowed a walk-off balk yet this year. There have been two of those already. I bet one is coming.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Hopefully someone puts together an instructional video for next year for the team
and title it “Don’t. Do. Any. Of. This.”
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Also, the stunned look on Marmol's face in the photo tells all.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
There's 162 games in a season!
Every game is different, every game ends differently. Who loses the same way every game? Who even wins the same way every game? I don’t understand the point of these titles.
If you give another team more outs, they are eventually going to score more runs. It’s as simple as that. There’s nothing “different” going on in each game. If Marmol continues to be flat, he’s going to give up more runs. It doesn’t matter if it’s by wild pitch or a 3-run homer.
Point taken.
However, I’ve rarely seen a team that loses games in one week in the varying ways that the Cubs have. To answer your comment below, it’s no “joke”, it’s reality. That’s why i keep mentioning it.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
It's also just a title to a recap
which itself was fairly accurate. I mean, come on mic, is it really worth grousing over? What would you rather these things be titled? Give the man credit, he’ll probably have to do 100 losing game recaps, and the fact he just doesn’t title these things “Cubs lose. Again.” at least shows he’s trying to make some lemonade out of this lemon of a season.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Why bother with the recaps then? Al should just post a W or L flag after every game and leave it at that.
To quote the Law & Order guy on all the tv promos… “Is that what you want???!!!”
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I'm pretty sure he knows what he's watching
and I’m also pretty sure that you lack an understanding of sardonic wit.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions
So don't read it then.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I can read it and give criticism all I want.
And I come here to see what other people are saying.
I know times are hard for Cubs fans and sports writers alike, but you have to keep finding fresh ways to write about them. That’s the job. To me, it should be just as easy to write about a bad team as it is a good team. There is so much to talk about since the team does nothing well.
It's just a title
for a recap…on a blog…that Al is doing for free (I think?)…for us…
Do you also criticise little girls who hold car washes that all use the same “Car Wash” signs for how unoriginal they are?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
SBN must be rich as hell then
to pay all of these bloggers for alll of these SBN sites to put up blogs all the time…
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
And the main point is
it’s just a title for a recap on a fan site. It’s not like Al is trying to sell papers here.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
That's where you are dead wrong.
It’s not just a blog. It’s the equivalent of selling papers and we are the customer. He’s making money off the revenue from ads. We visit the site to read these posts and that drives up the count. Therefore, we should be allowed to hold him up to the standards of every other Chicago journalist.
If you were just here to read the post
then I wouldn’t be having this discussion with you now.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
But I will say this
the posts were what first roped me in, the community is what kept me here.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
or you can not visit...
…and therefore do your part in minimizing the vast revenue streams flowing into Al’s pockets.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
So you're not on the Josh Topolsky pay scale?
:)
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
I never said I didn't like the site. Geez.
It’s my favorite Cubs-related one to visit.
But if SB Nation (and consequently, Al) are going to make money off my visits, then I think I at least have the right to hold it to the same standard as any other news organization.
What "standard" is that?
Clearly, I write differently than any other beat writer or columnist. If you like my style, stay here. If not, you’re free to go elsewhere.
Maybe I don’t post a great recap every day. It ain’t easy when you’re writing about this team. On that, I’m sure you will agree.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
just be honest
and vent on them, name names,
by Mike the ex cub fan on Jul 9, 2011 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions
and I never said you said you didn't like the site.
Since you really seem concerned about Al making money off your visits, I was merely pointing out the most constructive option at your disposal – not to visit, thereby ensuring that you wouldn’t be ‘paying’ for titles you obviously don’t like.
Of course, you’re welcome to stay and bitch about said titles all you want as long as you stay within the posting guidelines of this site. I’m always up for a little “::grabs popcorn::” action in the morning and it distracts us from this train wreck of a season.
Oh, just make sure to click on a few ads every time. Thanks.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Wait a second! Why are we criticizing each other
when we have this awesome team to criticize. No, no, we have been doing that since April1 so we are bored with it.
Let the personal attacks fly! Somebodies mother wears army boots, haha take that one.
Personal Note: My apologies if there is a poster with the name Somebody.
Not sure about "Somebody"...
…but I’m pretty sure there are women in the Army these days, and I gotta imagine a good number of them are mothers. Furthermore, at some point during their military careers, I’m equally sure they’ve had to lace up a pair of genuine US Army boots.
But the clincher is this – I’m also quite sure they can all kick my ass, so you won’t find me making fun of their footwear selection.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
If nothing else, the whole thing has been worth it to me
to prove to Craig from South Bend that SB Nation (and in turn, Al) is making money off his visits. That this doesn’t exist out of freewill. And that we have the RIGHT to critique what we want. I will gladly stand up, next to you, and defend her stil today. Because I’m proud to be a BCB commenter.
Prove to me what?!?
You’re on this “I’m here to prove to Craig that this is all for the Benjamins” when that was done and settled in one post.
You’re right though, this whole thing was absolutely and totally about me not fully understanding this is Al’s fulltime job. You totally got me there, especially when I said to Al, “Oh, thanks, I had no idea!” Nothing else has been about your nitpick, which you have been told repeatedly you’re entitled to make, even though it’s just odd.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
You were dead wrong about the whole thing.
Sorry if you’re embarrassed.
Oh man
I’m totally owned here.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Truly
I am so embarrassed that I thought one thing because that was true before, and then I was informed by Al for what was really going on. Ugh, I…I am so embarrassed I’m going to close this account and start a new one with a different name, Craig in St. Joseph County.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
LOL
And when that one goes awry, try using “Craig in Northern Indiana”.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2011 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Craig near Notre Dame
Craig in Greater South Bend/Mishawaka/Granger Metro Area
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Craig near 41°40′21″N 86°15′19″W
It just rolls off the tongue
LOL!
Awesome, that’s almost too brilliant
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
You sound a little embarrassed.
Isn’t it nice how a guy comes around every day and leaves mail in your mailbox? Or how about that girl who comes around at restaurants and brings you your food! How nice of them to do that out of the kindness of their heart.
I am so embarrassed
that’s why I’m still posting. Yep. You nailed it.
Guys, I’m embarrassed.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Your comparison is extraordinarily far-fetched.
Al started out writing this blog and SB Nation took it over about five years ago.
He initially worked at Channel 7 in Chicago and wrote this blog whenever he got the chance. The advertisers pay him to post ads here, but that’s it.
He gets NO money from our visits. That’s the reason why SB Nation’s staff is so small. I’m writing front-line reports about the local Oakland Athletics affiliate for AN this summer. You know how much I’m making as a result of that?
$0.00. I’m doing this as a courtesy to the people at AN, just like Al is writing BCB as a courtesy to Cubs fans.
I really can’t believe you’re making this big a stink over a stupid thread title anyway. How does a comment about a thread title end up turning into a conversation about Al getting paid for writing BCB?
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2011 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
It's not over the stupid thread title anymore!
Do you guys not understand how arguments evolve?
Al makes money from SB Nation. SB Nation makes money from ads. Ads make money from site visits. It’s not that complicated. Al’s long-term job security is determined by visits to this site.
My comparison is not that far-fetched when you look at the beginning of the discussion. Craig told me I shouldn’t critique because he was doing it as a fan out of freewill. If you think my comparison is far-fetched, you should read what he wrote. Something about comparing critique of this site to critique of a high school car wash.
Then don't visit.
If you’re that bent out of shape about it, don’t visit.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not that bent out of shape!
Are you reading anything I’m writing?
I never said you shouldn't critique him
whether if he’s doing this for pay or for freewill. Christ, I have a degree in graphic design, and went through countless critiques of my work going through college, work that wasn’t done for pay, so don’t you think I would understand that no one is free from criticism? Don’t you also think somethings are silly to criticize?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Incidentally...
… though yes, the ad revenue does pay my salary, I don’t get paid based on a “count”. I make a monthly salary from the company.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
But, "the count" is important to you because in the end it's how they evaluate you.
I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. I’m just arguing with Craig because he seems to have a misunderstanding of how the site works.
You're actually not arguing with me about that
considering, as I said below, that bit was literally and entirely cleared up with one post by Al.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
That's what I was arguing about.
You were wrong, but have fun being a minion.
LOL
“Minion”
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Ooh! Ooh!
I wanna be a minion too! C’mon…"minion me…please?
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
You thought Al was doing this out of freewill
and therefore had the right to write whatever he wanted without our critique. You vehemently defended him and said I needed to give the man credit for writing about this team.
How are you not a minion?
Again
how does my unsure thought that he does BCB for nothing (because he used to) mean he can’t be critiqued? You’re being really, really…yeah…
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, just think about it.
Could you write about this team given how bad it is and how often they lose? That’s why I give Al credit.
Heck, have a look at what I’m doing for Athletics Nation. That’s merely a weekend thing, and I know full well that even just two days a week every week will be exhausting. Try doing it nearly every day.
Oh, and knock off the namecalling. That’s one of Al’s big pet peeves on this site.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2011 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
You guys are acting like minions, I'm not even trying to be mean.
You’re going around policing other people’s behaviors, telling me what I can and can’t say about Al’s writing. Craig in South Bend defended him blindly thinking he was just doing this out of free will.
Reminds me of the old
I know you are but what I am?
by LT on Jul 9, 2011 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
We're not trying to be mean, either.
But your main point appears to be that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong.
We have tried to point out on several occasions that while you do have a point, we disagree with part of your argument. And then you blast us because you have repeatedly implied that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2011 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
^THIS^
(hoping not to get drawn into a silly tiff we’ll ALL look back on and laugh at in a mere 24-48 hours…)
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
How is that my main point at all?
I’ve had two points this whole time, one to a lesser degree:
1. I don’t like the “whole new way to lose.” This topic is pretty much over. I’ve explained my point and read the other points. Al “took my point” and I took theirs. Argument: reconciled.
2. That this site is run as a business (like a newspaper) and that we have the right to critique it like one. We had a misunderstanding from the start about this, but it was resolved.
Now, I’m just trying to clear up everything I’ve said.
No one told you would you could and couldn't say
we were confused as to why you would nitpick something so small, but that’s obviously something that bothers you deeply.
And are you just ignoring that Al at one point up until a couple years ago was doing this out of free will?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
But he's not doing it out of free will anymore.
So you don’t have to be his minion. He can handle his own business. He’s responsible for it.
Please stop with the name calling
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe we LIKE being his minions?
IMHO, you’d be hard pressed to find a more statistical, cubs orientated, baseball mind than Als. That’s why I, for one, visit this site.
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
Statistical mind?
You are joking right? lol
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
/dodges again/
In the end, I simply like Als thought processes. Where I tend to think “Blow it up!”, he applies a more realistic approach… (Why am I talking to "The Zombie anyways?) You are still a Zombie…aren’t you? Don’t lie now… :)
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
Don't sell yourself short Jeff
The only solution to this period of Cub ineptitude is to blow the whole stinkin thing up. I’m talkin baseball bats, blow torches, Chainsaws and polish it off with a daisy cutter.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Thanks Trout!
I guess, sadly, thats what must happen.
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
And by the way
this all started because I made a friendly quip to Al about how many more new ways are left for us to lose, you decided to use that as your bitching launching pad. And since I, as well as Al, as well as Vermont, as well as ballhawk, as well as jeffstorm, etc., etc. all think that’s an awfully strange thing to bitch about, we’re going to say something about that.
Also, how funny is that. You’re on this kick, and wrongly I might add, that we’re telling you what you can and can’t say, and yet there you are telling us we can’t defend Al by asking why you’re nitpicking.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Please stop with the name calling
you decided to use that as your bitching launching pad.
How do you say those two things in the same five minute span?
Saying "your bitching launching pad"
isn’t namecalling…
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
It pretty much is.
But let’s not get into semantics.
STOP?! PLEASE STOP?!
Gentlemen, think about it… nothing’s getting resolved here… it’s ok to disagree, even to be misunderstood. Let it rest? /bows out/
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!
By your logic, calling us “minions” isn’t name-calling, but what he told you about when you started on your rampage is?
That is truly comic.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2011 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Morning V C F
I really hate it when the site flares up like this. Nobody will ever be right nor anyone wrong…and we’ll never truly know the intent behind the others posts
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
I would love to know how it is
but he doesn’t want to get into semantics, so I guess we’ll never know.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
::Sneaks off, hopes this discussion dies btwn here and 1st pitch thread...::
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
You mean not doing it for free?
Al (you can correct me if I’m wrong) but he was always getting paid. You don’t run a site like this for a blog conglomeration like SB for free.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
You're sort of right.
I did make a small amount of money from BCB before I was a fulltime employee, but it was hardly enough to live on.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
More power to you for making money.
But it seems like you’ve accidentally convinced a couple of long-time posters that you’ve been doing this for free.
Not that it should make much of a difference. But it does affect the way I read your posts: like any other Chicago sports writer, rather than like a post on a Cubs fan site by another Cubs fan.
Now you're misunderstanding our points.
Us long-time posters don’t care if Al makes money here. We stop by because of the content this site provides. IMO, this is the best Cubs site on the internet.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2011 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't misunderstand your point at all.
I’m stating my perspective of this site.
And I'll make it clear right now.
I don’t care if Al makes money from writing this. I joined BCB because I’m a Cubs fan. No other reason for my being here.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
And I'm here because I'm a Cubs fan...
… not because I get paid to write.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Never my intention to imply that.
I did start blogging about the Cubs as a labor of love. It still is.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Also...
… though I am a paid writer, there is a significant difference between me and the beat writers and columnists for the mass media:
I pay for admission to the games and do write from a fan standpoint, not a detached writer standpoint. I trust you do see that difference.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
That's a very big distinction
Guys like Sully, Gordo and Miles are supposed to be “objective.” Al writes as well as any of those guys, but he does it from a Cubs-fan perspective.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 9, 2011 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
And that's why I enjoy his writing
more than anyone else’s. The only thing I would want more of, is maybe some additional posts about the Cubs away from the recaps, but that’s what Baseball Nation is for I suppose.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
You do realize that once you cross..
..that line you would never be able to view a game from the press box like a fan. Very much frowned upon, I don’t know if I could give that up.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Yes, I do realize that.
One reason I have continued to pay for tickets.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
And man
you really seem to have this nailed for what the content should be. I’m sure you’d be more than welcome to do your own Fan Posts for these games.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Are you that dumb?
This is his job. He’s getting paid to do it. He’s responsible for reporting on the games and giving a fresh take each game. It’s not my job.
You really just wanted to bitch today, didn't you?
Sheesh. Cubs found a new way to lose, by giving up a three-run homer. That’s a fact. You don’t like it? Fine by me.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I made my point and now I'm defending it, Al.
You should be able to see that.
Again
what would you rather it be titled? There’s also a whole slew of content that follows that, so what are your thoughts on that?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Really, you're nitpicking to death.
What would you rather have had me say?
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Look, I'm not nitpicking.
I made my point that this wasn’t, in fact, a “different way to lose.” From there that spiraled into an argument over whether or not I had any right to say what it should be titled, since Craig in South Bend is convinced you do this out of “goodwill.” So, that’s what I’m arguing about now. I’m not nitpicking the original argument. I’m just saying that we can hold you up to the same standard as other Cubs writers. That should be a compliment, right? I’m just getting tired of the same headline for every loss.
I hate to assume
but I’m just going to assume that Al started doing this thing way back when out of goodwill and because he’s a huge Cubs fan. From there it turned into a paying gig.
And why are you arguing with me about my understanding of this being Al’s fulltime job when that was LITERALLY cleared up with one post from Al. That’s it. Done. Over with. The main crux of this is your grousing over a title, and not having anything else to say over the rest of the content. This is what I don’t understand.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
That's not the "main crux" anymore.
Your defense of the whole thing was, “Al does this out of goodwill, so we have no right to critique his work.” And then I explained my point to you and that’s where we are now.
Where did I say you have no right to critique his work?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
It’s just a title
for a recap…on a blog…that Al is doing for free (I think?)…for us…
Do you also criticise little girls who hold car washes that all use the same "Car Wash" signs for how unoriginal they are?
Where did I say you have no right to critique his work?
You’re fully entitled to critique whatever the hell you want. My point was, you were criticizing him over a title, and just ignoring everything else that followed, as if that one thing invalidated everything else. It’s the same thing as Al saying you’re being nit picky, so I guess that means that Al also is saying you can’t critique his work.
And I said I thought he was doing this (BCB) for free, or next to nothing honestly, because I thought he had a full time job with the tv station. So I was wrong there, and was quickly informed by Al that no, he actually does do this thing as his fulltime job now, and that ended that. He’s still doing this for us though, or do you think his only motivation is money? Honest question.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Obviously...
… it’s work now, so yes, I do it for money, although I also work for Baseball Nation every day.
But if I didn’t love doing this, I wouldn’t have gone to work for SBN full time.
So it’s both a labor of love, and employment.
Make sense?
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Oh, for sure.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Al, let me make one last point.
I haven’t liked the “new way to lose” thing from the very start, but I haven’t said anything for what seems like weeks because it is just a little detail and it is nitpicky.
But my frustration with the team and the headline boiled over when I opened up the page and saw it again this morning. I’m not complaining about anything else but that. It’s not fresh (anymore), it’s not witty (anymore). And I realize the point wasn’t actually discussed much in the post, but it has been in the past. I do not think it’s a good angle. The team’s defense is bad and it’s making mediocre pitching even worse. There’s nothing new about it.
In some ways, that's part of the point of writing those.
BECAUSE they keep doing this, I believe it points out how fundamentally bad this team is.
I do understand your point, but you’re nitpicking.
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Dude...
microwave popcorn?
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by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
And an empty bowl. Needs a refill, probably.
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I must make my popcorn for everyone
with my new Wave Crazy. Sprinkle a little garlic powder on it…Oh man, I’m really hungry.
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by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL
Thanks for the page views. But I get paid the same regardless.
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And really, it doesn't even matter
because at least you also have something to say about the team as well.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
The "difference" was the closer allowing a three-run homer.
Which was, as I pointed out, quite unusual for him.
So how is that not different?
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I'm not saying it's not "different."
I’m saying every game is different, so that’s hardly the angle you should be taking loss after loss. I admit that Marmol giving up a homerun is somewhat unusual, but he’s been off for a long time ago, so we knew it was coming. He’s had a lot of blown games of late with pretty bad stuff.
What gets overlooked is this team’s horrible defense. Maybe you think it’s too hard to keep writing about that, too. But the fact is, a good team turns that double play in the eighth inning, and the Cubs go into the ninth with the lead. Their hitting is not nearly good enough to outhit their mistakes on defense. And their pitching is not good enough to outpitch their errors.
That's a lot to fit into a title :)
I kid. I kid.
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by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm just sick of the whole "new way to lose."
That was my only point. It’s not a new way to lose. I don’t understand why I’m belittled for it.
I get your point
a new way to lose would be for example a runner on 3rd, two outs, a line drive is hit to Marmol, it goes off his glove, ricochet’s into the stands and the winning run scores.
Sometimes reading these headlines feels like groundhogs day.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Wow.
You apparently showed up and decided to bitch at everyone. Here’s where you’re wrong.
This is Al’s site. Meaning he has the right to come up with his own headlines for losses. You always have the option to suggest headlines to Al, which is something many of us have done. If you don’t like Al’s headlines, you also have the option of not commenting in the resulting thread.
Now no one is belittling you for complaining about the comment title. More, many of us don’t really understand why you’re making such an issue out of the comment title. When it comes to a recap about a game, where the team loses, is the comment title really that important?
I’m much more concerned about the Cubs than a comment title that a fan writes on his blog.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2011 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Geeeeze, now I have to keep going on and correcting.
This is SB Nation’s site. Al is an employee of SB Nation.
How do so many people misunderstand how this is run?
Because Al was the one who started this site.
And SB Nation took it over a few years ago.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2011 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
And also,
If this is SB Nation’s site, Al should have no say in the title of the recap thread, right? Should SB Nation really decide recap thread titles?
Oh wait … Al is the WRITER of this blog, so he decides what any thread’s title should be.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2011 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Stop being a minion.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
So you're saying Craig is right now?
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2011 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
God is a Cubs fan?
There is a God? He’s Al?
Dude, Al, what gives? GIVE US A CHAMPIONSHIP ALREADY!
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by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions
HA!
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2011 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
It's frustration I'm sure
A nice winning season and we probably wouldn’t see these flareups.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
"Cubs fans find a new way to bitch"?
How about that for a headline?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 9, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
LOL
Yeah. Rec’d.
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by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
LOL
That gets a rec.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 3/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, no, actually.
I don’t want or need everyone to do recaps of games. That’s what I do.
Look, not everyone’s going to like everything I do here. I was just saying “here we go again”, essentially, but in a new way.
And yes, this is now my fulltime job. I also work for Baseball Nation — see my signature.
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I knew about the Baseball Nation thing of course
but had no idea about BCB being a fulltime job as I thought you did something else. Is that the same for other fan sites of other teams?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Most of them, no.
Some of us have been hired by SBN fulltime, but very few.
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How the heck is Channel 7 able to continue without you?
Congrats on the new full time gig.
by LT on Jul 9, 2011 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Have been with SBN fulltime for almost two years now.
Didn’t make a big deal about it here at the time, but I have mentioned it before.
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I never caught that
but yeah, congrats on the gig, even though it’s writing about how they lose more often than not.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
I guess that helps a lot with missed sleep
from having to go into to work so early in the past.
by LT on Jul 9, 2011 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
All of this crap.
Over a freakin’ title?
God I can’t wait til the Cubs start winning again.
R.I.P. to my grandfather, Andrew Wiley
The reason I am a Cub fan forever
That's what this is all about.
Winning would take of some of this stuff.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
More "Cubs find new ways to win"
Less “Cubs find new ways to lose” :)
At this point, any Cubs win would feel like them finding a new way to win.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh man
this needs to be a recap title at some point.
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by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
And Al
I’m really sorry for the namecalling yesterday. That crap doesn’t help and I lost my cool.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I wondered when yu had time to sleep
Now I realize you’re part of the mainstream media. You’ve now painted a bullseye on you back. LOL Congrats AL.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
This is "mainstream media"?
Since when?
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You learn from your mistakes if you're smart
You repeat the same mistakes if you’re not. This organization just isn’t baseball smart. It’s reactive rather than proactive. The players just don’t think ahead. They just play baseball. If you listen to Barney, you hear the voice of wisdom. Sadly, I haven’t heard insight from other players on this team nor the manager and coaches. The have excuses instead.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
If Castro doesn't throw another one away......
they get to the ninth with a one run lead and nobody on base.
Yep
Yet another defensive breakdown leads to a loss.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 9, 2011 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
What really kills me...
…is that other teams seem to ALWAYS take advantage of our miscues. We give a team like Pittsburgh an extra out and you can be damn sure they’re going to take advantage of it.
When we had the chance to blow the game open the inning before we had to settle for one paltry run which has pretty much been the Cubs’ story the last couple of years.
by bluekoolaide on Jul 9, 2011 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
OT: I have a new non-Cub favorite player... Josh Reddick of the Boston Red Sox.
Boston up 10-3, bottom of 8th, 1 out. Reddick’s on 3rd last night during Ortiz’ at-bat before the big “fight that wasn’t really a fight”. After 3 inside pitches (the last very inside causing benches to clear for some strong words and lots of gestures), Ortiz swings at 3-0 pitch and lifts a weak fly ball to CF. Obviously going to be caught so he takes his time leaving the box. Kevin Gregg, a bit irate that Big Pappi swung at 3-0, motions him to move along and adds in a few words of ‘encouragement’.
It’s on.
Ortiz charges mound, Gregg isn’t shy about meeting him halfway and the flailing commences. Benches clear and the usual “mostly smoke, very little fire” baseball brawl runs its course in a few minutes. Umps huddle up to figure out who gets tossed.
But what about Reddick? Again, he was on 3rd with only 1 out. Ortiz fly ball makes it 2 outs. Umps huddle some more and then call Reddick out for joining the melee. 3 outs, inning over. But here’s my favorite part – from what I read, Reddick tagged up first and then joined the fight.
Fundamentals, baby. Fundamentals. Gotta love it.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I actually advocated the Cubs trade for him yesterday.
I like Reddick quite a lot, and now I have another reason.
It would have been great had he scored first while everyone was distracted by the fight.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jul 9, 2011 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
So what Cubs "down period"
are we closer to at this point?
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by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:05 AM CDT reply actions
This season, if it continues to trend the way it is will put...
…this group well within the top ten of worst Cubs teams of all time. It’s stunning to think that could actually happen given the amount of talent on this team.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Maybe it's all cyclical
and when my daughter turns 4 in 2014, the Cubs will be great, much like they were when I turned 4 in 84.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think they're that talented
Maybe some in their prime were. The stunning part is how bad they are with this payroll.
by Mapmaker on Jul 9, 2011 4:01 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
No-Name Pirates
Al mentioned it in the recap, and I thought the same thing last night. It proves, at least with a very small sample size, that spending a ton on players is stupid. Yes, the Cubs have way more “talent” and “names” on their roster than the Pirates. But who’s a game out of first place?
They say that winning is contagious. I think losing is a disease, and it’s infected the entire organization. I really wonder if most of the guys come to the park thinking they’re going to lose.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2011 11:40 AM CDT reply actions
I think that happens to any team when they start losing.
They probably come to the park every day wondering “how are we going to screw it up today?” It must make things tense no matter how close they are as teammates.
Same thing for winning, as you point out. During 2008, I’m guessing those Cubs players couldn’t wait to get to the park every day.
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I would love to see a documentary about players on a miserable team
The Oakland and Cinci seasons of Hard Knocks come to mind, but those took a more optimistic look at the upcoming season.
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by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
And your point is...?
We can’t take an optimistic approach to 2012? If so, I fear I agree! :) If BCB has taught me one thing…it’s to be realistic.
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
Huh?
I’m not saying that? I just want to see a documentary about any bad team and the players on it, that takes place over the course of a season because I am really interested in what players on those types of teams must go through.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I too would find it interesting.
But I see little to no reason to be optimistic in 2012. I just watched (The Great) Billly Williams in a special tell Sara Kustok "Have fun at Wrigley (she was “a cub for a day”), and I wonder if we place too much emphasis on having “fun” v. Winning… I meant no offence
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
It would be foolish to be optimistic about 2012,
until we know how much the Cubs are going to spend in the offseason. On top of that — we don’t know what deals will be made from now and then.
The front office will determine whether we should be optimistic or not.
R.I.P. to my grandfather, Andrew Wiley
The reason I am a Cub fan forever
Even then
I think there’s too many parts of this machine to fix and replace, that I’m starting to agree with most that things won’t look up until 2013.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Until we see what the 2012 team will be like,
there’s no reason for pessimism or optimism. We don’t know.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 9, 2011 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Contrary to that
you can find some things to be optimistic about, but I think there’s more things to be pessimistic about, if only because of where they are now and what they’ve done in the past. You’re right though, that pendulum could swing wildly in one way or the other because Al only knows what will happen at this point.
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by Craig in South Bend on Jul 9, 2011 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Al is all-knowing
except when it comes to knowing which headlines won’t spur a bitch-fest, I guess. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 9, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Ask Pittsbrgh how much they'll spend
This team isn’t failing because of the payroll.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
they couldnt care less
either way, as long as they can protect their bodies and get hot at contract time
by Mike the ex cub fan on Jul 9, 2011 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Jeter Mr. 3000 with a big homer to left
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Man I got goosebumps on that one
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
HES AWZUM
Blake "The Franchise" DeWitt will lead us to the promised land
by jesus christos on Jul 9, 2011 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Congrats, DJ.
Hate the Yankees. Don’t like him much either, but it’s still cool to watch major-league history.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jul 9, 2011 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
It would be cool...
if he could get hit for the cycle on the same day he gets 3000. I’d be shocked if that had ever been done before.
Hmmmm… so you can get 3+ hits including homer the weekend before, but can’t play in the All-Star game when millions of fans voted you in. Very, very curious…
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jul 9, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Nice lottery ticket for the guy who caught it too.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jul 9, 2011 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow...
and he didn’t cash it in. He’s 23 and didn’t take any money and just gave the ball up. The Yankees ended up giving him a suite for the rest of the year and the playoffs (which honestly cost them nothing, since it’s not like they sell them out). Maybe he could sell some of the tickets for that to get some money, but there’s no way I don’t get some cash for catching that ball, no matter how much respect I have for Jeter and the game of baseball. That’s just too much money for a young person to pass up. Incredible.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jul 9, 2011 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions
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