Tom Verducci on the Dan Patrick Show
by tville on Aug 1, 2011 10:35 AM CDT
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SI's senior baseball writer, Tom Verducci, was asked by Dan Patrick to comment about the Cubs at the trading deadline, and why they were dormant this weekend.. According to Verducci, the Cubs "were not interested in trading any of the players under their control for next year". He then went on to say he understands the Cubs' thinking, but that they're a Triple A team currently.
If Verducci understands what the Cubs are trying to do, he must be in select company. At least the Astros were astute enough to collect some talent as they unloaded their marquee players. The Cubs appear to be a ship without a rudder.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Good comparison on the Astros.
The thing is, when you are having a season this disastrous, making a 7/31 deal sends a message to your team and fanbase. Sure, players can be traded in August or the offseason. But there ought to be more of a sense of urgency here.
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No Hendry was sending a message to the fanbase
The question than is whether the Cubs ownership will send a message to the fan base and organization?
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Aside from the message, Al............
…………there’s simply no reason to keep Ramirez/Baker/Pena/Johnson if something could be secured in exchange, and if there was interest in Soriano/Byrd/Dempster/Zambrano, reasonable offers should have been entertained. We don’t even need to dig into the Marmol/Marshall/Soto pool of talent to unearth viable candidates to be moved.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
and the message to the Astos fan base was
We have no ability to compete for a couple of seasons, we are rebuilding so we got rid of the only two decent players we could get anything for. This is not a message the Cubs can afford to send.
Like it or not , the Cubs will never do anything that indicated they are not trying to win each and every season even if the results are bad.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 1, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
because 80% of the fan
base isnt as tuned in as we are so they just see that the Cubs expect to contend (especially when they see the high payroll # and a decent FA signing every winter) and buy the tickets – right or wrong that is the way it is – now I have no doubts that Ricketts wants to win it all but when you dont have any slam dunk prospects being blocked by the likes of Byrd, Barney, Pena, Ramirez no sense in trading them away if the return isnt good enough
I actually agree with Doggie Stalker
Hunter Pence and Michael Bourn are two players that are approaching free-agency soon and will command decent (Bourn) and good (Pence) money once they do. The Astros aren’t going to throw money at the problem as they tried to with Carlos Lee, they are likely on a strict rebuild. The Cubs don’t have any talent in a similar situation to the Astros’ aside from Matt Garza—whom they just paid a high price for in terms of prospects—and Geo Soto who is on a down year and wouldn’t net a favorable return.
Starlin Castro is still years away from requiring a long term deal and every other younger player might not have brought back much.
However, middle relief such as Marshall and Marmol should have been moved. That’s my biggest issue.
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Aug 1, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, and not being more aggressive
in their efforts to trade Byrd. You can get relatively similar production out of Jackson next season. Byrd has been hitting well since his return and shaving an extra $6.5M off of next year’s payroll would have looked nice.
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
this is often said here
but it’s veracity is debatable
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 2, 2011 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Interesting comment from Sports Illustrated's Joe Sheehan
He wrote about the Bourn trade and about Ed Wade, the Houston GM. He negatively compared Wade and Hendry in this short blurb:
“Contrast Wade’s approach with that of Cubs GM Jim Hendry — whose team is not as bad as the Astros, but faces a similar dilemma — and you gain respect for a man [Wade] who has done his best to put the organization’s needs first, even though in doing so carves in stone his legacy as a man who didn’t get the job done. I’m sure I have more middle-relief jokes in me, but in this moment, Ed Wade deserves better than a punchline. The man did his job.”
Kudos to Sheehan.
Meanwhile the Cubs have players like Pena lauding their GM for doing nothing.
The entire organization is a overgrown nut farm.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
I'm not sure who is more delusional.
We the fans, or the organization. Probably us.
FIRE JIM HENDRY. Injuries aren't the problem.
How sad is it that Ed freaking Wade is outshining Hendry
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
The Cubs Organization is staying the course
It’s good to stay the course, finish the race and not throw the towel in before you have accomplished what you set out to accomplish. The end result is the difference between failure and success.
Staying the course is the best direction, especially when you are hopelessly lost.
?????
The end result for 2011 is already determined – we lost, we failed, we did not and will not succeed at baseball this year.
There is no reason to stay the course, there is nothing left to find. The best direction is that which will help the team in the future. But Jim Hendry didn’t do that – so he failed even at failing.
My buddy Doug the Sox fan
“The Cubs are a total disaster”
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Lol
His team’s motto is “all in” and they are two games under .500 and have been under .500 all season.
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
But the Cubs aren't "all in" ;)
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
I really can't imagine Jim Hendry being an employee for the Chicago Cubs by the end of the 2011 World Series.
If he is, I won’t be surprised, either, but he shouldn’t be.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Well he will likely be "employed" as he is under contract
Perhaps as special consultant to soothing the egos of players and agents while a new GM makes the deals.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 1, 2011 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I could see that
bring in a GM that can be a hard ass and then if negotiations dont go perfectly the Cubs way you bring in Hendry to buddy buddy the player and the agent to get them to budge your way…or the player could get everything they want
By the Cubs actions
He will be back next year. Also with him being back next year Quade will be back.
I understand Hendry's thinking.
But the fact he didn’t make one deal to improve our pitching dry farm system is what annoys me. Guys like Baker, Byrd, Marmol and Pena could of gave us a interesting arm or two. I’m not a huge fan of Soto and his inconsistent offense and defense, I would of took calls on him also. It just sounded like the Cubs were not willing to discuss ANYTHING.
Also, I wonder if Hendry understand how bad this team is. Sure, we might get some bandaids (Fielder) in the offseason, but this team needs to go back to the basics. The only somewhat fundamentally sound players I see on the roster is Darwin Barney and Marlon Byrd. The pitching is well below average. This team needs help in alot of areas, and I hope Hendry doesn’t think a couple of moves will make this team good for several years.
'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'
Too many people overvaluing too many Cubs
From Baseballreference.com, I don’t see nearly the demand for some Cubs players that some people here do.
Any comparison to the trades that Houston made is ridiculous. Pence WAR = 3.0, weird running and all. Bourn WAR = 4.4, 5th in the NL. Those are tradeable players. Fukudome was the highest Cub = 2.6 and Cleveland wanted him after 2 injuries. No other Cub is sniffing 2.0.
Yes, those are season long WAR stats and do not reflect increases for recently hot players like Pena (1.3) and ARam (1.6). And yes, FanGraphs may have some different WAR Stats.
But I don’t there was any serious demand for many Cubs players. I just don’t see the injuries or other circustances that would have made a team offer much for any Cubs by July 31.
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 1, 2011 1:27 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
B-R WAR is a bad stat to follow. Most WAR you see comes from Fangraphs, which tells a much different story.
Just sayin…
Different numbers, but not much of a different story
Bourn and Pence are still higher. I coud see ARam as being a tradeable player, but his “won’t waive/will waive” stand did not help him in the trade market.
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 1, 2011 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions
the story can be pretty dramatic in some instances
check Soriano’s fWAR versus brWAR in 2007 where his fWAR was 7.0, but his total brWAR was only 3.6. Then look at his UZR rating on fangraphs and you’ll see why there is such a discrepancy.
Hendry and Quade should have sat down with ARam........
………and told him he either waives his no trade clause or he’s on the bench for the balance of the season.
With the Cubs moving in a different direction, the remainder of the games could be used by other players to see what the team has at 3B for 2012.
And since ARam is in a contract season, perhaps needing to prove himself for a future payday, it’s entirely possible he would have agreed to a change in scenery.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
This idea wan't any better...
…. than when Dave Kaplan suggested it.
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Why not?
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
You still have to be an attractive place for free agents to sign
Who is going to sign with a team that screws over a player in the final year of his deal?
“Hey A-Ram, we know you’re one of the best-hitting 3B in the national league right now, but we’re going to cost you millions in free agency by benching you so we can confirm that DJ Lemahiue sucks.”
by Wreckard on Aug 2, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Plus he's going to be a Type B free agent at minimum
He’s going to want to sign a long term deal. So a COMPETENT General manager will at least get a Sandwich 1st round pick out of him this winter.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
That depends.
He would be pretty likely to accept. So if you want him then that’s fine, but it won’t be cheap.
He will still be cheaper that route than cashing in the option
Might as well roll the dice? Either way he will still have trade value.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Understood, but.......
……..having such a conversation with ARam might give him reason for pause and a willingness to accept a move elsewhere.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
You mean we should threaten that if he exercises his CBA-given rights as a player that we'll punish him by benching him
Players will love that and really want to come here then!
It's all in the delivery.........
…….and it’s not punishment if the team’s management is trying to do what is in its overall best interest.
Call it a shot over the bow, but under the circumstances, I believe something should have been said to him.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
Try spinning this one...
“DeWitt made more sense that Ramirez at 3B because…. ummm, geez, you see that beard he has?”
You can’t bench your current best hitter because he wouldn’t waive 10/5 rights – it would be a nail in the coffin for other FAs looking to come here.
Comments made publicly..........
………versus what’s said privately can be two very different things.
All I’m saying is that a tactful conversation could have been conducted that might have served the longer-termed interests of the team.
Let’s face it – if he’s put on the bench in favor of September call-ups, no one will say a word. This would simply be starting the process a month sooner.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
Who cares what the public perception is?
The implication would be clear to Ramirez, his agent, and anyone else in that small community of major league baseball players and those who represent them.
So around mid-July Hendry could't have said:
“It’s unfortunate, Aramis, but we’re out of contention. This season has not panned out as we had hoped, and we have to start looking forward to 2012.”
“Over the next 10 weeks we will be assessing our in-house talent at all positions. Various players will be getting reps so we can determine how best to prepare for next year.”
“To accomplish this goal, our regulars will not be playing consistently, yourself included. This is a difficult decision, but need to get a feel for what we have in order to address our needs in the off-season.”
“I’m letting you know this in advance because you likely have options. I’ve fielded various calls from contending teams that are interested in your services, but respecting your right to stay, I’ve not entertained these offers. If you want me to explore some of these alternatives, let me know. You’ve done great things for this team and I want to give you any opportunities that might be best for you and your family.”
Do you really think a conversation like this would taint the Cubs as a pariah for free agents?
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
I guess it fits with that tradition of out-of-contention teams benching their veterans in August / September
Oh wait… that never happens. No team would ever alienate their veterans – and by extension veterans everywhere – by doing what you describe.
Over the next 10 weeks we will be assessing our in-house talent at all positions.
We have a way to do that already. It’s called “The Iowa Cubs”.
Lol I'm sure Fielder/Pujols would love to hear that.
What strong conviction they’d show by benching ARam, amirite!?!?
the major difference between brWAR and fWAR is that fWAR accounts for defense in the form of UZR
but UZR has some pretty major flaws as has been noted in this thread above. brWAR provides separate stats for offensive WAR (oWAR) and defensive WAR (dWAR). For example, Castro’s oWAR is 2.1 and his dWAR is -1.5. But on fangraphs, Castro’s combined WAR is 1.6
Please.... No more Astro comparisons.....
Ed Wade was UNDER ORDERS!!!!! to get the payroll under 60 million dollars. He still is. It’s why Bourn and Pence were traded. it’s the only reason. Not because they got killer prospects because they didn’t.
I wish Hendry made more trades. And I’m livid that hendry seemed offended that teams were actually calling about his players like Marmol and Byrd. But I don’t want the Cubs to simply dump players or acquire these Lil Abner A ball players. Unless we were getting a piece that can actually help the team, or it opens a position for a player, a la Colvin in right, there’s no reason to trade someone.
I was all for Marmol being moved, but what was offered? Did they offer the same deal as they got for Mike Adams? I have no idea and neither does anyone else. The Pirates gave up a pile of Dog doo for Derek Lee. That’s not what Pena is worth. So while I wish Hendry made some more moves, I can’t kill him for these hypothetical deals that didn’t exist…
"I can't be held responsible for what I personally tell my goons to do...."- C. Montgomery Burns
by yahoodi on Aug 1, 2011 2:37 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I almost wonder if Hendry was under orders to not trade much
Maybe Ricketts told him to move Fukudome, but to hold on to everything else so the next GM can make the decisions about the direction of the club – including bringing back Pena, Ramirez’s option, and evaluating the young tradeable pieces like Marmol, Marshall and Soto.
You think like a manboss.
Agreed 100%.
The Astros got maybe talent 2-3 years down the road…and that’s 2-3 years before they make it up not hit their stride.
by SenorGato on Aug 1, 2011 3:19 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
You think like a manboss.
Agreed 100%.
The Astros got maybe talent 2-3 years down the road…and that’s 2-3 years before they make it up not hit their stride.
Sure the talent is tantalizing, but tantalizing talent is a dime a dozen in the minors…especially for big market clubs…the questions are can they help the big club, how quickly, and how likely?
If the cubs trade those guys they now have to replace them…and were probably paying good money to get something worthwhile.
by SenorGato on Aug 1, 2011 3:40 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
A Manslaves master?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
If Hendry was unwilling to field proposals...........
…………then Wade did do a better job. All indications seem to indicate that the Cubs were not interested in listening to offers.
Sure, Wade may have not gotten much, but he was able to get something because his door was open for business.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
The Cubs will have a winning season and make the playiffs
before the Astros do. I’d take any bet on that.
by SenorGato on Aug 1, 2011 3:17 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
It will be 3 years before ether team contends for the playoffs
It is just a screen name.
by Fat Punk Kicker on Aug 1, 2011 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm going over that for the Astros...
Under for the Cubs.
by SenorGato on Aug 1, 2011 3:41 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Isn't The point to stop losing ASAP?
by SenorGato on Aug 1, 2011 3:42 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 1, 2011 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
And 8 years ago if I bet you that the Rays, Tigers and Astros
would make the World Series you would call me crazy. I will take that bet with you. We went all in on this team for 07 and 08. We lost so it is time to rebuild. I know that there is not one person out there that wants to do this but the only two teams that have been rebuilding for years are the Pirates and Royals. So it is time to go to the games and drink lots of beer and have a good time. Like it used to be. Then in two to three years with some good FA’s and draft picks lets try to win.
So what's the parameters of the bet?
I think we’re closer to being one of the Rays or Tigers than these Astros are. Their ace is Wandy Rodriguez. Wandy’s a good ML pitcher….but the guy hasn’t even thrown 200 innings in a season yet and he’s been around for 7 years.
People laughed when Rays players said they could make it to the playoffs in 2008…people laugh right now at the idea that the Cubs could be a competitive/playoff team in 2012…Meanwhile the Astros tried and failed to get someone to overpay for Wandy, and got a couple of guys 2-3 years (albeit with good upside) for their best player…Not the moves of a franchise seeing themselves doing anything of significance any time soon.
Oh and check out their farm system...
People here talk about how the Cubs don’t have a good system….that system is a barren desert.
Bad Grammer? Kelsey in trouble again?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 3, 2011 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions
The only way I take a bet is with Hendry staying in office
If he leaves we will have a better chance then if he stays. For the Bet I am a poor college guy who just got out of the Air Force with nothing to his name. But again I love the Cubs and will hope every day that they win, I just think Hendry is wrong with what he is doing.
Whoa whoa...
I’m a poor college guy too, but I make the bet under any management (except one I think is really terrible, then this conversation wouldn’t be happening at all).
Exactly right
I wont bash Hendry but the time is up. Even if we pick up prince fielder next year and make the playoffs we will not win a series. It wasn’t Lou’s fault we got swept 2 years in a row. The players are the ones to blame. We get rid of those players and start fresh then we get a chance. Soriano and Aram do not care about winning there lack of effort is proof. I dont want to bet but I will if Hendry stays in office.
At one point this was a conversation about how the Cubs would
have a winning season and make the plyaoffs before the Astros. Where are we at now?
Also the Loser will have to go to a Cubs Cards game with a Cardinal Shirt on.
I cant think of any thing much worse then this.
While I'd love for a bet to force a trip to Chicago or even St. Louis (I'm sure I'd do well in Missouri)
…I’m a poor college guy.
I was thinking more along the lines of a sig…where, if I win, you proclaim to BCB (even if I’m not currently posting when I win the bet) that I am the wisest and most perceptive poster on the board. Ftmfw.
Bet on
If I win Then you proclaim the opposite about your self. The Most unwisest and least perceptive poster on the board.
That works beautifully.
I’ll er…collect my winnings within the next two years then.
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