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Alfonso Soriano thinks he has a 50/50 chance of returning to Chicago next season. I'd say that's the impression I am getting from the media coverage about him and the Cubs attempts to offload his contract.
10 months ago
subtle
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I like this impression.
Great song from the late 90s, too.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
in college, we used to think this song was about an AIDS test
if you listen to the lyrics with that in mind, it seems to fit.
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We used to think it was about
putting one past the goalie.
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by Craig in South Bend on Aug 12, 2011 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Soriano said that a week ago
Wittenmyer and MLBTR recycled it for a second week. That’s kind of lame.
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
semi-related
the cubs should claim wandy rodriguez if the astros put him on waivers.
by circuitclout on Aug 11, 2011 8:07 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Because Wandy is going to get them to the series in two years?
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 11, 2011 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions
No. But he's a solid enough pitcher
to take without offering trade chips.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
Agreed, totally,
this team is missing a good lefty starter, plug him in and all of the sudden Garza, Dempster, Z, Rodriguez, and Wells looks pretty decent.
Assuming they won’t sign a high-price FA 1B (Fielder, Pujols, etc…) we’ll have the money on hand.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Wow?
You people are really high.
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 11, 2011 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ha, I wish...
Wandy really wouldn’t be a horrible pickup. He’s done well in the NL Central and may be a nice asset going into the next few years, whether we compete or not. He may compliment a trade down the road or provide value in some other fashion. Depending on what it would take to get him, I would say its worth a shot. Just my 2¢.
by renocubfan on Aug 11, 2011 11:59 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree with this
It makes sense – might as well see what it would take. My guess is that Wandy would prefer to stay in the NL Central.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Let's try Cashner first...
for about $31m less over the next 3 years. There’s no way the Cubs get Rodriguez for next year without taking on his entire salary for the next two. If they can get him cheap, then possibly, but that won’t happen until this winter.
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by jameslcrockett on Aug 12, 2011 1:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Doubt Houston trades him in the division,
only way Cubs could possibly get him, IMO, is by claiming him on waivers. I’d love to see them try Cashner, but he’s hurt, and the team doesn’t really know what they have in him yet. Wells is always tradeable as well.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Sorry... I should have said "Cashner".
Use any placeholder you want there… Jackson, McNutt, Marshall, Struck etc…
The Astros don’t have the luxury of caring what division they trade Wandy to. They’re stuck for cash… really, really stuck. The only way this is a good deal for the Cubs is if they find a way to get the Astros to cover a chunk of the money like they did in the Oswalt deal. Otherwise, it doesn’t make any sense to help them like that.
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by jameslcrockett on Aug 12, 2011 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow... really...
He’ll make $36m over the next 3 years. He might be worth that, but why blow our budget on a player like that? Ed Wade is the only GM dumber than our own… don’t add his mistakes to the future the Cubs might be building.
Read this… get smarter.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 12, 2011 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions
yes, really
I don’t love the contract but I don’t think its terrible and id take the cost certainty over paying for a similar pitcher on th FA market. The cubs really don’t have a clear left handed rotation option in the system, they really don’t have much of anything in the system, really.
by circuitclout on Aug 12, 2011 1:18 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
So you're saying that
If Wandy were a free agent this Winter, you’d advocate signing him to a 3 year, $36 million contract? Because that’s what would be happening if the Cubs claimed him.
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by Brett Taylor on Aug 12, 2011 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
minus the compensation
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
no
I’m saying id claim him and if the astros want to give him away id take him
by circuitclout on Aug 12, 2011 2:38 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Sure they do...
his name is Sean Marshall. That’s if you want to waste time caring about left-handed or right-handed options. You’re right about not having much in the system really, but you’ll never really find that out if the Cubs keep taking on other team’s idiot contracts and helping a direct competitor dig out of their problems while they do it.
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by jameslcrockett on Aug 12, 2011 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
you could benefit from studying yourself
The cubs will have well more to spend this offseason than what rodriguez will make, there is also little to suggest that he wouldn’t be worth the contract aside from the risk inherent in all pitchers. With cashners health a very open question and no one in the system that really merits a long look at this point why not go out and get a guy that has a pretty high probability of performing at the level of a 2/3 starter. It seems ur default setting is to never spend any money ever, as if you get extra credit for winning economically.
by circuitclout on Aug 13, 2011 9:23 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
You're wrong about what I think...
stop assuming things and putting words in my mouth and worry about yourself.
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by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
maybe if you learned to write more clearly
people wouldn’t be so confused about what you think.
by circuitclout on Aug 13, 2011 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
How you justify how confused you are is your own business.
Your lack of ability to correctly assume something is not my problem. It’s not my fault that you care what my “default settings” are when you don’t know me and never will, and I’m ok keeping it that way. I certainly don’t waste time considering what yours are even if they’re any less inconsequential and inert than the rest of what you have to say. It’s not my fault you have to grasp to refute something so you resort to making stuff up about someone on a personal level. Your classless and juvenile insults mean absolutely nothing as well. Is that all you have left to offer?
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by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Rhetorical questions are rhetorical?
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by jameslcrockett on Aug 15, 2011 7:07 AM CDT up reply actions
So you think they'd take that chance ...
only for the Astro’s to say, “he’s yours”?
What, are you Kenny Williams, this is the Sox and they’re looking at Alex Rios?
Just win the next game...!
Yeah Wandy's a good pitcher and I'm even a fan but....
in his case he’s not good enough for the team to add his salary. He’d just become another contract we’re hoping to wait out, or worse, have to dump.
Any rumors of any Cub moving at the end of August?
Quade can't deal them?
This is HIAFI’s fault.
Personally, I'd rate it at 99/1 that he'll be back in 2012, but here's hoping I'm wrong.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
Soriano thinks some other team wants him?
That’s cute!
Sure...
…an AL team would probably like him as a DH, as long as the Cubs pick up all but 3 or 4 mil of his yearly salary.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I would agree...
…and that deal should be out there somewhere. This has gone on too long already.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
It'd be awesome.
It only kinda sucks that they’d be paying alot of money, because it’d open up a starting spot for some talent and would probably save a few million.
I'd do it in a second...
just to get him of the team… but i’d rather take a chance on Chone Figgins or even Adam Dunn for the next two seasons. There’s no downside to the move and a much better chance the team gets more than $3m or $4m in value from them in the next two years. This is regardless of whether the team expects to contend next year.
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by jameslcrockett on Aug 12, 2011 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Not Adam Dunn
There’s only one position he can play (barely) in the field, and if we acquire him, we’d have to pass on trying for either of the two FA 1B (unless you want to see Dunn in LF). Maybe he’d be a plan C if we miss out on Pujols and Fielder and decide not to bring Pena back.
Figgins I’d be OK with – at least there are places to stick him in the field where he won’t completely kill you.
by Jody Jody Davis on Aug 12, 2011 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Why would you take a worse player to get rid of a better one?
Figgins has been bad for so long at this point that it’s hard to ever see him playing well again. Dunn makes Soriano look like Willy Mays in the field, so he gets to hurt you on both sides of the ball.
It’s painful to see Soriano out there getting paid $18M for $3-5M in production. But I’d rather do that then trot out someone who is so bad they ought to be paying you.
Yeah no to Figgins too...
If we’re going to do it for a bad contract let it be someone like AJ Burnett. A good talent who’s crapping the bed with his current team at a big price.
Add Burnett to the list...
though he’s by far the more expensive option. It’s highly unlikely you’ll find the Yankees desperate to take that much of Soriano’s contract even with Burnett in return, since they’re not looking to cut salary. They may be spend-foolish by they’re far from dumb and have a far superior DH option ready to go, and are set in the outfield. Soriano doesn’t fit on the Yankees in the slightest. He does fit on the Mariners and White Sox.
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by jameslcrockett on Aug 12, 2011 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions
There's no point in trading Soriano for another DH...
and it’s highly unlikely the Mariners would take him.
Of the three, Burnett’s the only one I’d actually take.
You should stick to quitting...
it will save you from exposing how little you know about baseball.
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by jameslcrockett on Aug 12, 2011 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Figgins hasn't been bad for that long
I didn’t realize just how bad Figgins actually was this year. But he was a 6.9 WAR player in 2009, his last year in Anaheim. Granted, a lot of his value is tied to his speed, and as he ages he’s not going to get faster, so it will be more difficult (if not impossible) for him to recover his value.
I don’t think Seattle would do that trade anyway. It’s not like the Bradley/Silva trade, where the contract values were basically even. Figgins is only owed $18 million combined over the next two years.
by Jody Jody Davis on Aug 12, 2011 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions
The Cubs would still have to cover a portion of Soriano's salary in this deal...
but the Mariners will end up needing a solution for Figgins, because they need that roster slot for the young players they’re producing and Figgins gives them nothing… and Seattle has something else the Cubs don’t have: the DH, and nobody to put there. They also have a GM that likes to take risks, as we saw with Milton Bradley. Same can be said for Ken Williams.
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by jameslcrockett on Aug 12, 2011 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Because Adam Dunn's been good very, very recently.
And if he shows even a little bit of life, he’d be worth more than just throwing away $15m/yr. Figgins would be acceptable only because he plays defense at a position that should be open next year, plays multiple positions and switch hits. The main concept is there being absolutely no downside to trading Soriano for another player with the money being equal rather than just flushing all but $3m. It would be different if the Cubs could actually compete next year, but they have the room to make such a gamble, when the worst that could happen is having to dump them when they fail, like the Cubs did with Silva. With a little luck, maybe the Cubs can either save another $3m in cash with such a move and/or get a win or two more on the field. It’s reasonable to not have faith in Soriano’s ability to stop his downward slide in production and reliability… and these are two players with upside to take that gamble and next year is a good year to do it..
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by jameslcrockett on Aug 12, 2011 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Well don't throw out that...
the last time Soriano had a bad season he came back with a pretty good one.
I refuse to see Adam Dunn clog up the 1B position when both Fielder and Pujols will be FAs this year.
The main concept is there being absolutely no downside to trading Soriano for another player with the money being equal rather than just flushing all but $3m.
Sure there is, if that player is worse. Figgins and Dunn are worse, less useful players than Soriano.
Who cares?
Then you just cut them like they should cut Soriano, since the team isn’t a playoff contender next year anyway
And I reject your premise that Soriano is more useful than they are… especially when we’re talking about potential to be more useful in 2012 for a team that doesn’t need an aged, unreliable, mediocre-at-best leftfielder for anything and actually needs a 1B and/or a 3B. Care to look at how many HRs Adam Dunn averaged per season over the last 7 seasons before this one? Figgins has been a fantastic defensive player in many of his years, plays multiple positions (which is a fantastic benefit for a NL team) and switch hits. He wouldn’t be the first player to go to Seattle and suck, because very few players have ever hit well there since Safeco Field opened, and then leave and get better.
Upside… they have it. Soriano doesn’t and hasn’t had it for three years. Downside… nothing.
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by jameslcrockett on Aug 15, 2011 6:32 AM CDT up reply actions
You're creating a false dichotomy here
Then you just cut them like they should cut Soriano
But you shouldn’t have to cut Soriano. You should be able to dump him and salvage some savings in salary, which you could then apply towards a player who is actually good at baseball.
Figgins has been bad for his last 1000 PAs. He’s been healthy for the most part so that’s not even a factor. He’s just simply been terrible for long enough now that it’s much, much more likely that he’ll stay that way (especially at his age, when his game was dependent on speed and athleticism) than it is that he’ll bounce back.
Dunn is so awful at defense that even when he is actually hitting home runs, he’s costing you half of those runs on the other side of the ball. Yes, Dunn was good in 2010, which is not too long ago. But he was so, so bad at defense – even at first base – that he was only worth 3.5 WAR. Soriano? In 2010 he was worth 3.0 WAR.
What’s the downside? Well, for starters you’re getting worse for no real reason. Trading for a far worse player (Figgins) for no real salary savings, or a player who appears irreparably broken (Dunn) and even good costs you a ton of runs. Plus if you trade for Dunn, he can only play first base. So that means you can’t fill that position in free agency with a real difference maker.
It’s an awful, irredeemable idea.
No to Adam Dunn.
That is seriously the worst idea this board has kicked around, right up there with “maybe LaHair could handle 1B for a couple of years.” No.
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