Cubs Minor League Wrap: August 11
by Josh Timmers on Aug 12, 2011 12:53 AM CDT
in Minor Leagues
Email
PrintThere's a chance that I won't have internet service tomorrow night. I hope it doesn't happen, but if you're missing the Wrap tomorrow, that's why.
Iowa Cubs
Flying to Tacoma.
Tennessee Smokies
The Smokies blotted out the Jacksonville Suns, 8-7.
Marco Carrillo got the start and allowed four runs on seven hits over six innings Carrillo walked three and struck out six.
Rafael Dolis walked the bases loaded with one out in the ninth inning, but got a pop up and a strikeout to get out of the inning without any damage. He picked up the win when the Smokies scored the winning run in the bottom of the inning. Dolis only pitched the one inning. He did not allow any hits or runs in that inning.
Third baseman Josh Vitters hit the game-winning RBI single in the bottom of the ninth, scoring left fielder Ty Wright. Vitters was 2 for 5 with two RBI.
Wright also homered earlier in the game. The solo home run in the third inning was his fifth for the Smokies and sixth overall. Wright was 2 for 4 with a walk.
Right fielder Jim Adduci was 2 for 4 with a walk and two runs scored. Catcher Blake Lalli was 2 for 3 with a double and a walk. He scored twice.
Shortstop Junior Lake was 2 for 4 and scored once.
Daytona Cubs
The Daytona Cubs split a double-header with the Lakeland Flying Tigers, losing game one 6-0 and taking the second one 4-0.
In the first game, Angel Guzman started and pitched his normal two innings without allowing a run. He allowed two hits but did not walk anyone. He struck out one.
Jeffrey Lorick pitched the rest of the game and got the loss. He allowed six runs on six hits and four walks over the four innings. Lorick struck out two.
Shortstop Logan Watkins was 1 for 3 with a stolen base.
In the second game, Matt Loosen turned the tables on Lakeland by shutting them out over six innings. He allowed only two hits and walked no one while striking out eight. It was his first win for Daytona this year
Left fielder Evan Crawford was 3 for 4 with a double and a stolen base. He scored once.
Third baseman Greg Rohan was 2 for 4 with a triple. He scored once and knocked one in.
Catcher Chad Noble was 2 for 3 with an RBI.
Peoria Chiefs
The Peoria Chiefs trapped the Kane County Cougars, 9-6 in 11 innings.
Starling Peralta got the start and allowed six runs on eight hits over 4.2 innings. One of the six runs was unearned. Peralta walked two and struck out two.
Yohan Gonzalez threw two scoreless innings of relief to get the win. He surrendered two hits, but he didn't walk anyone and struck out two.
Daniel Berlind picked up his fourth save with a perfect bottom of the eleventh. He retired the side on three groundouts.
First baseman Richard Jones was 2 for 5 with his 21st home run of the year; a solo home run in the seventh inning. He also doubled and walked once. Jones scored twice and had three RBI.
Right fielder Anthony Giansanti had a double in a 2 for 6 game. He scored once and had two RBI.
Shortstop Arismendy Alcantara and DH Smaily Borges were both 2 for 6. Alcantara had two RBI and Borges had one.
Second baseman Rubi Silva was also 2 for 6 with a double. He scored twice. Left fielder Ben Klafczynski was 2 for 5 with a run batted in.
Boise Hawks
The Boise Hawks were demolished by the Eugene Emeralds, 17-6.
Austin Reed started and got battered around for seven runs over only two innings. He gave up nine hits and three walks without striking out anyone. Two of the seven runs were unearned.
First baseman Paul Hoilman cracked his 12th home run of the year in the sixth inning with the bases empty. Hoilman also doubled in a 3 for 5 game. He scored twice and batted two runs in.
Right fielder Reggie Golden was 2 for 5 with a double. He had one RBI and scored once.
Center fielder Oliver Zapata went 2 for 5 with a run scored and an RBI.
Left fielder Blair Springfield went 0 for 2 and walked three times. He also had two outfield assists tonight.
AZL Cubs
Lost to the Angels, 8-7 in ten innings.
Marco Hernandez went 0 for 5, snapping his 16 game hitting streak.
50 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Vitters is starting to heat up.
I’m not sure why so many people are down on him. He’s currently ranked 20th in batting avg and 18th in SLG. in the Southern league. While thats not real impressive everyne ahead of him in both catagories is at least 3 years older.with the exception of a guy in the Reds system who is only 18 months older that has a higher SLG%.
I know he doesn’t walk enough, but he doesn’t strike out either. He also seams to perform well in clutch situations. In 113 AB’s with runners in scoring position he’s hitting .345 with a .911 OPS and only 9 K’s
by wfree0104 on Aug 12, 2011 1:58 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Great post.
Vitters is one interesting prospect. He’s looking like a big 2012 breakout candidate, and I’d like to see him play at AA again next year. At 22 he’d be the right age for the level, and if he does well he’d get promoted quickly anyway.
I’m not even sure I’d mind him getting a September callup this year if it were to play out that way. I think he could use the challenge. Pitch recognition seems to be his best skill, as seriously no one can strike him out. Now he’s got to figure out what to do. Might as well challenge him and see if maybe he picks a thing or two up in the couple weeks or w/e it’d be.
Not sure how you challenge him by repeating AA
I think Vitters needs to play AAA next year. The quality of stuff he will face may be a little less because there are usually no potential aces that spend significant time at AAA, but there are a lot of veteran minor leaguers and former MLB pitchers who know how to work a hitter and try to get him to chase bad pitches. I think the next step in Vitters development will require him to adjust to this type of approach by pitchers. He must prove he won’t make easy outs by going after a “pitcher’s pitch”.
Challenge him by calling him up.
Kind of like they did with Lemahiu, to give them an introductory couple of weeks.
Id rather see him dominate AA early on next year tbh. He should be able to do alright in the PCL. That said, your logic for AAA might be a good idea.
by SenorGato on Aug 12, 2011 9:23 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree
He needs to start seeing more pitchers pitches and show he can make good decisions with those pitches. Right now, it seems like he can put a bat on most anything, but the key for him will be learning to identify the right pitches to swing at and drive.
There’s still the concern about whether he will be able to stay at 3B defensively. If he can’t, then his bat will need to get substantially better to be a big-time asset at 1B or LF. And I think that’s where the development of pitch identification will come into play.
Maybe the answer is a winter spent in Mesa working on fielding
It’s not like 3B is a position that requires outlandish physical gifts. A 3B needs good reflexes, but any player who is a good hitter can learn that. Reactions can be learned by repetition, and the position doesn’t require tremendous speed or a cannon arm.
Well, 3B isn't a position for everyone...
if it was, we’d see more good defensive 3B. So I don’t think it’s just a matter of repetition. It also does require a pretty strong arm. Maybe not as strong an arm as SS, but similarly strong.
Hopefully, it’s something he can get better at. But there has definitely been a fair amount of discussion that he may be destined for LF/1B defensively.
by SouthernCub on Aug 12, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
But for those positions, his hitting becomes an issue
His bat is worth a lot less at 1B/corner OF than 3B. Those are spots where a team is looking for power bats, and he really hasn’t shown the OPS to add much value at those positions. Plus, the Cubs clearly have a near-term need at 3B and more opportunities to fill 1B and the OF.
I agree...
Vitters will either have to improve a lot with either the glove (to stay at 3B) or the bat (to be an adequate 1B/LF) to be a useful big league starter. That’s kind of what I was saying in my previous post.
Pitch recognition?
When it comes to player development, I’m, at best, a spectator, but it’s been my impression that good pitch recognition is best statistically displayed by a BB/K ratio where BB’s are a high number per plate appearances and K’s are near the BB number.
Having a low BB and K rate just says to me that the guy has good hand/eye coordination to be able to put bat on ball, but the reason he doesn’t walk is that he can’t recognize if it’s a fastball on the outside corner and he should swing or a slider on the outside corner that he should let dive out of the strike zone for a ball.
by jerry morales rules on Aug 12, 2011 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Completely agreed...
Having a low BB and low K rate indicates a player isn’t taking a ton of pitches. Guys like that are usually guys who can make decent contact with almost anything, and so don’t wait around for “their pitch.” It’s in fact typically a sign of a guy with bad pitch identification skills.
It would appear that Vitters is more in the Castro mold of “can make contact with anything,” but doesn’t necessarily wait around for the right/best pitch to drive. Guys like that can succeed (Castro is doing well for himself and Vlad Guerrero made a living with it), but it’s much tougher to do so. It’s also much tougher to fully reach your power potential with that skill set, because you’re often swinging at pitcher’s pitches.
Agreed
Neifi Perez was praised by Dusty Baker and Jim Hendry for having really low K numbers. However it was more due to him looking for ANYTHING to put in play, rather than any actual skill.
I imagine that is likely the case with Vitters as well. Scared to get to 2 strikes as a hitter. So he starts swinging from the On Deck Circle.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Vitters is clutch.
Nice to see Golden and Zapata have solid nights, Zapata’s first for Boise. Also Rosario with another good day in Mesa. I’m loving that kid. I think he’s going to be real good. Oh and Quade sucks.
Vitters
I think the expectations were so high that everyone question’s him. Various scouting reports have said that he doesn’t play MLB average defense. So the question is will he become adequate at third defensively or will need to change positions permanantly. I think he will respond with the bat. Power potential is still growing, I like the Sanduval comp
I think he could compare well with David Wright
Wright has become more patient, but he wasn’t early in his carrer. He was a rookie at 23, and while he will make some nice plays at 3rd he makes at least 20 errors every year
The Wright comparison
is not a bad ceiling comp if he stays at 3B IMO.
by SenorGato on Aug 12, 2011 10:03 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The Wright comparison
is not a bad ceiling comp if he stays at 3B IMO…though walk rates will always come up with Vitters.
by SenorGato on Aug 12, 2011 10:03 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't think the Wright comparison is all that good actually
Wright always had much better plate discipline. In the minors, his OBP was consistently about 100 points higher than his AVG. And in the majors, he had an 80 point difference (72 BB) in his first full season at 22. He has never walked fewer than 65 times in any season as a pro. Vitters has never walked more than 21 times in any season. Wright also showed power sooner, and had more speed. Wright also had a much higher AVG in the upper levels of the minors.
Vitters could achieve Wright’s power and maybe his defense, but I don’t know that he’s got it in him to match Wright’s AVG, and I definitely don’t see him coming close to Wright’s speed or OBP.
by SouthernCub on Aug 12, 2011 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Also, Wright was a rookie at 21, not 23.
He had already played over 225 MLB games by 23. Neither here nor there as Vitters isn’t old at all for AA. But in terms of developing a comp for Vitters, I just don’t think Wright is a very good one.
by SouthernCub on Aug 12, 2011 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Well
other than Wright walking 225 times in 1702 minor league PA’s and Vitters walking 64 times in 1579 PA’s they look the same.
I should add that Wright also put up a .605 slugging season at 21in AA/AAA.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
maybe I shouldn't have said comparison and instead said ceiling
Wrights minor league development wasn’t slowed by injury the way that Vitters has been, and while I am going off of things that I have read and not watching Vittters play.
If Vitters can have another healthy year next year I can see him SLG .600 next year at age 22 between AA/AAA.
I kind of have mixed feelings about the low walk rates of guys like Castro and Vitters. The Cubs do need more players that can see a lot of pitches and make a good pitcher have to really work for every out, but with the increased walk rate you generally also get an increased K rate…like a Brett Jackson.
Maybe a better comp for Vitters would be the Aramis Ramirez as a guy who doesn’t K much, doesn’t walk much, but drives in runs. Ramirez has become pretty solid at
3rd after being pretty bad early in his career. Ramirez was allready in the Majors at age 20, but had only 12 HR thru his first 600 ABs. At age 23 in 2001 he hit .300 with an OPS of .885 and only walked 40 times in over 600 ABs, and drove in 112 runs
Like I said the other day
I still think Vitters is a possible .290+ hitter with 20+ HRs. Nothing great, but very solid player.
Can you imagine many 3bs where Wright wouldn't be their ceiling comp?
You can’t hope to get a player better than him… doesn’t make it any more reasonable.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 12, 2011 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think Ramirez fits either.
Ramirez also walked a lot more often than Vitters even in the minors, and did a lot more with the bat too (.900+ OPS every year but one). And as you note, he was a few years ahead of Vitters on the development curve. I’d say that Ramirez is even optimistic for a Vitters ceiling.
I’d be fairly shocked if Vitters put up a .600 SLG next year. That’d be an ENORMOUS jump in power considering he’s topped .500 SLG only once (in A ball two years ago). I think he has more power potential than he’s shown, but I’d be fairly surprised to see a ~.150 point jump in SLG next year.
I think Vitters projects to a .270-.280/.310/.450-.470 type of hitter at the MLB level. Definitely decent, but not really an impact player.
I get the feeling that...
one day Austin Reed will be in the pen, and will resemble Keith Foulke with a fastball/changeup combo. That’s the name that came to mind when I saw his scouting video last year, and it’s pretty muchs tuck with me since. I’m typing it out because it’s 3:30 and it’s OK to be wrong on this whenever it comes up since no one will ever remember this.
I think I like Rubi Silva more than most, and there’s the outside shot he’d make a top 30. He’s been a pretty consistent Wrap appearance guy for a mostly boring Peoria team.
Zapata and Golden…names to keep an eye on. Golden seems like he could be exactly the kind of player Michael Burgess was projected to be out of HS. Of course, that comes with the usual extremely high bust potential. Anyone have a scouting report on Zapata? He’s young.
In reply to joeby231’s thoughts on Vitters, I think time will tell on position but I do have a feeling it will be LF. Like anyone else, I hope it’s 3B, and I hope the bat comes around.
Ryno, is Rosario the 6th round C from this year? If so, then I too think he might be a good one. Mike Quade = underrated via sitting duck syndrome, possibly even probably.
Silva
Silva is a sleeper utility guy. He is a little old for A- and he struggled in A+ this year, but the transition from Cuba is supposed to be extremely difficult, both in terms of baseball and culturally. I have heard it described as more difficult than the transition from Japan or Korea. The only guys that have come over and had immediate results were veterans (Hernandez brothers) or sick talents (Chapman). I think it is fair to give Silva a year or two to acclimate. I kind of group him into the same category as former 2 sport guys where you know they will be older for the leagues.
My only disappointment regarding him is his lack of base stealing. I expected better production in that area. Speed is the one thing that should translate any situation. Unfortunately, Silva isn’t as fast as I expected.
The first time that Boise got
Tarlandis’d this year. By the time Reed got pulled, the game was over.
When the 15th gets here, we can see new talent and the guys that ought to be deep reserves will be.
Roll back the deadline to, at the latest, August 1st. That, and allow bonus honorees to play as soon as possible.
It looks like Gretzky’s bonus is official-ish again.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
Luis Flores of Tennessee suspended for drug violations
50 games for Methylhexaneamine, a stimulant.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sns-tsn-aan-drug-suspensions-20110811,0,2982650.story
Cubs top 40/ 50....
… prospect list is all set to be posted ionce the signing deadline passes and I’m sure of the players from this year’s draft signed who made my list.
The system is really weak at the top but does offer a ton of young potential in the loweer minors.
scoutingthesally.com scouting service $17.95. Very cool service check it out.
How can you make a list without seeing the player first or have any amount of reasonable data?
I know its fun to throw guys like Baez and Candelerio into top prospect lists, but none of us really know anything about them. I rank the prospects playing full season ball, but for the guys in SS or recent draftees I just keep a list of guys to watch for once they spend at least some time in Peoria.
Yes in all likelyhood Baez is one of the top 3 prospects in our system, but there is also a chance he is Kyle Skipworth (6th overall from 2008, hasn’t even hit .250 in any season).
Agreed...
It’s hard enough to accurately evaluate the guys who’ve played a full season of pro ball. Tossing in guys from high school or the foreign leagues who have no true reference point makes the ranking systems even more of a crap shoot.
I guess it’s fun for people to make their lists and it creates discussion. But as any sort of valid tool of reference, it’s probably kind of bogus.
agreed
also, what the heck is this repeated term “interesting player”?
does one have to be a football guy, son of a former pro athlete to be an interesting player?
I also have no idea how a blog poster can have the wherewithall to actually determine who is and who isn’t a Prospect?
Kind of funny. Even the adoration for unsigned early round draft choices is silly. They never played an inning of Pro baseball yet they are perceiced as “can’t miss”, or on this site, “interesting”
Well Baseball America will throw those guys on
if they deem them worthy, so no reason to get the names out now anyway. Prospect lists are more fun/interesting and a form of organization anyway….I’ll be interested to see that thread when cf1 posts it.
by SenorGato on Aug 12, 2011 9:28 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
To not get the names out now. *
It’ll be good to show people the depth in the system. It’s not a killer top 20 but you can easily get 40+ interesting names in this system.
by SenorGato on Aug 12, 2011 9:45 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I keep meaning to make it out to the Jack for an Angel Guzman start...
they keep passing me by. Is there any foreseeable timeline for when he might get called up to AA or AAA?
Glad to see Guzman have a solid bounceback game
After a rocky stretch in early July (6 ER in 7 IP over 4 starts), he had gone through a nice 4 game stretch (1 ER and 8 K in 8 IP). But his previous start he got shelled (3 ER on 2 HR and 5 H in 1 IP). Nice to see him avoid a run last night.
Nice also to see Vitters have a couple hits and Hoilman and Golden have good nights for Boise.
Beliveau
Beliveau has been outstanding this year – an 80K/18BB rate over two levels. I like to think Grabow will disappear silently into the mists and Beliveau will get a crack (I guess along with Gaub and maybe Maine) to secure another lefty position in the pen. One thing that hasn’t been mentioned much is how effective Russell has been since his disastrous starting role (0.92 WHIP as a reliever this year) – I wouldn’t be troubled if Marshall was shopped in the off-season, especially as he will be getting expensive soon.
by Riggs_Stephenson on Aug 12, 2011 10:20 AM CDT reply actions
Marshall=Baker=Untradable
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
Richard Jones
IF that is his real name…seems to be destroying A level pitching this year…well maybe not destroying but seems to be hitting it enough to deserve a promotion. Anyone have any more info on him?
"There is no tomorrow for you, and that makes you very dangerous people."--Jimmy McGinty (Gene Hackman) The Replacements
Time is an illusion--lunch time doubly so.
"The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just."--Abraham Lincoln
He's another lowish BB/high K guy...
and he was pretty blah last year. And he’s 23, which is just a tad on the older side for a prospect at the A level.
He has had a very nice year though, and he’s shown good power and a not awful BB rate at least. And he has the advantage of playing a position (1B) at which the Cubs don’t have much of interest at A+ or AA, so he would probably see a promotion to Daytona to start next year. If he can hit like this again next year, he might become interesting. But I’d say he’s pretty fringy in terms of a prospect at this point.
by SouthernCub on Aug 12, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks
For the info. I generally would disregard a single year of spiking power but like you said, he plays a position of interest w/o much blocking him. Hopefully he can keep this up, it would definitely be nice to see.
"There is no tomorrow for you, and that makes you very dangerous people."--Jimmy McGinty (Gene Hackman) The Replacements
Time is an illusion--lunch time doubly so.
"The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just."--Abraham Lincoln
He'll really need to have a strong year next year...
Because we’ll have several 1B prospects behind him (beginning with Hoilman who is putting up silly OBP numbers with a very solid ISO in Boise). And if/when Vogelbach and the other 1B prospects enter the system, at least one of them will eventually threaten his spot too.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bleed Cubbie Blue
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
Cubs By The Numbers
Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.
Click here to order your copy, available now!
Recent Stories in Chicago Cubs Game Threads
Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Eric Hosmer redefines the Baltimore chop with infield double (Video)
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
