Carlos Zambrano Gets Hit Hard, Ejected, 'Retires'
by Al Yellon on Aug 13, 2011 8:02 AM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
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As some of you know, I was up fairly late Friday night, but wanted to leave this be until morning, to see if I felt any different about it. But I don't, and the truth is that I don't really even know what to say about Carlos Zambrano any more.
When he's had his past meltdowns, I've said his behavior was "indefensible" and the Cubs should trade him immediately (June 2007), that his antics were "childish" and he needed to "grow up" (May 2009) and that he "had to go" after an "epic meltdown" (June 2010).
Now, it's just sad. Sad that a pitcher with the talent that Big Z has can't harness that and focus on the job he has to do, sad that he'd run out on his team, sad that his obvious passion for winning has resulted in him taking actions detrimental to both himself and his teammates.
The quotes in this article from Mike Quade and Jim Hendry are instructive. Quade:
"He didn't have it tonight," manager Mike Quade said. "I'm really disappointed. His locker is empty. I don't know where he's at. He walked out on 24 guys that are battling their (butts) off for him. I don't know where he's gone or what he's doing. I heard he has retired, or talking about retiring.
"I can't have a guy walking out on 24 guys, that's for damn sure."
Hendry:
General manager Jim Hendry was with the Double-A team in Knoxville. When contacted for comment he said: "We will respect his wishes and honor them and move forward."
I've always enjoyed watching Zambrano pitch -- pitch, that is, not the histrionics. Seeing the no-hitter he threw against the Astros in Milwaukee was a highlight of my lifetime as a Cubs fan -- on that night, he put every bit of talent and energy he had together and had his best game as a Cub, and, except for Kerry Wood's 20K game, likely the best game a Cub has thrown that I've seen in person.
Regardless of whether Z was serious about "retiring" or just blowing off steam, you just don't walk out on your teammates. I imagine another team suspension is in order, but does that really matter at this point? The Cubs were rumored to have tried to trade Z before the July 31 deadline, eating a significant portion of his deal, but found no takers. Will they find any team willing to deal for him now? Doubtful.
This season has been nothing short of an utter disaster. Having something like this happen just adds to the sad litany of what it has meant to be a Cubs player, employee, or fan in 2011. We've had a few decent things to cheer about, but mostly it's just been a really rough ride, and as of now there don't appear to be any changes coming. There need to be, because does the Ricketts family really want to keep going down this road? It doesn't appear to be leading anywhere positive. It really can't continue this way if they want to build a real winning organization.
About Friday night's game, you already know. Z tied a team record with the five home runs allowed; the other three pitchers who have, um, "accomplished" this are Warren Hacker (1954), Steve Stone (1974) and Ismael Valdez (2000). (Amazing but true footnote: the Cubs actually won the game where Valdez allowed the five homers, June 11, 2000 against the White Sox.)
The Cubs lost 10-4 to the Braves. Starlin Castro homered, his seventh of the season and fourth in his last nine games. So there's that tiny bit of positive, then.
In the meantime, we'll wait for word on Big Z from management today, or if not today, soon. Whatever eventually happens, the overwhelming emotion for me is sadness.
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Big Z and Atlanta do not agree
Must be the food. Or the hotel pool water.
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
Absofreakinglutely bizarre .. the surreality is beyond belief even for this season ..
Where do you start to comment on this newest debacle?
This isn’t a Cubs issue now .. it’s a classic Zissyfit
(as the 900 plus comment fanshot put it, and which my laptop just refused to load).
Of course, this makes coming home just so … Cubsy.
I just returned home to Chicago after a long hard 9 hour drive from the Holy City and was at my mom’s place as we watched Z get lit up, and then try to nail Chipper Jones (no other way to put it). Z just walked off with a blank seven year old’s look on his face. Kudos to the ump who took charge. The Braves didn’t deserve this.
Then after enjoying a nice Italian beef, we watched Todd Hollingsworth’s face on CSN when the tweets came in. I stared at my mother. She stared back. Our Chicago Cubs were in the news again ..
Quade all but snarled during the post game. He was spot on as he rocked back and forth on that chair. Hendry was probably at the Dixie Stampede enjoying collard greens and fried chicken when he virtually all but cut free Carlos Zambrano, one of the 100 Greatest Cubs Of All Time, from the Chicago Cubs.
The Twilight Zone music was cued up somewhere and picking away .. The bongos hit.
Words just don’t say it .. I can’t begin to utter what this feels like ..
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Aug 13, 2011 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Negative for Zissyfit.
Unless you minimizing and making fun of someone with a mental illness is OK behavior? Do you mock people with cancer or Down Syndrome?
Yeah, Z’s behavior is frustrating and saddening. It was also clear after last year that he was being treated for a mental illness. He’s likely better off without the stress of being a pro athlete (something he’s expressed isn’t all that fun for him, at times). So, I’m all for declaring that it’s sad that he’s taken backwards steps and he’s not good for the team, but treating him like a petulant, selfish child is disgusting, ignorant behavior. Saying that ignores the truth about his problem.
"The cheaper the hood, the gaudier the talk" - Philip Marlowe
by ForTheLoveOfBiitner on Aug 13, 2011 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
speaking as a person with a chemical imbalance....
i’m a normal active productive member of society. my “mental illness” is not pulled out as a crutch or get out of jail free card. if he’s truly “mentally ill” he needs to retire and not be put in the limelight with those pressured situations.
Speaking also as a person with a mental illness (aka, a chemical imbalance),
I’m also a normal, active, productive member of society. I have also been in group therapy and treatment with people who suffer far worse than do I. Lumping all mental health issues into a uniform level isn’t possible.
Z has done nothing to use his condition as a crutch. In fact, he says almost nothing about it, which would include not using it to make excuses. Nor am I making excuses for him, rather saying that I don’t think it well considered to insult and demean in the way that is happening. I also said that he’s not good for the team at this stage, so I’m agreeing that he would do well to retire, as much for him as for the team.
I’m curious why you put “mental illness” in quotes?
"The cheaper the hood, the gaudier the talk" - Philip Marlowe
by ForTheLoveOfBiitner on Aug 13, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
hear, here
The daily pressure at that level must be crushing where anyone knowledgeable of or about mental and/or emotional disorders/issues can and will exacerbate cycling episodes in what appears to be a form of bi-polar disorder.
Z might be personally better served retiring, be it forced or voluntary, if the club is forced they have few options, DFA where he is sent to the minors or he is released, (not sure of the contract issues) would he have to be waived or I wonder if the Cubs could place him on the DL like how the Royals did with Greinke?
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
You're assuming too many facts that are no in evidence
As far as I know, Zambrano saw a psychologist last season. I don’t think he saw a psychiatrist and he is not on any psychiatric drugs.
Can anyone show me a sign of mental illness in Z when he is NOT pitching? Or does this behavior just occur when Z has pitched poorly?
I think a diagnosis of Z with a mental illness is extremely premature.
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 13, 2011 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions
It seems to me
that it would be prudent not to judge someone else as mentally ill without having the medical certification to make that assessment. Also, is it appropriate to make such a judgment without having met that person?
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
If the person was clear about being in therapy,
and knowing that “anger issues” almost exclusively have a mental health component, it’s not a blind leap.
"The cheaper the hood, the gaudier the talk" - Philip Marlowe
by ForTheLoveOfBiitner on Aug 13, 2011 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Perhaps it's my ignorance
but I’m reluctant to designate everyone with anger issues as mentally ill.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
by tharr on Aug 13, 2011 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
my ignorance on the subject tends to lead me to believe
that mental illness is a chemical imbalance and anger issues are more of a behavior problem, like a spoiled child who is used to getting his own way, or is just a bully.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, anger issues can be spurred by chemical imbalances or injuries
But I’m not sure anyone’s ever definitively stated Zambrano’s problems are physical in nature
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions
oh, I didn't know that....my guess is that only his family knows if its a chemical imbalance (chronic)
or not. If players are having trouble coping with him in the clubhouse, I can’t imagine how it would be living with him if he brings all that crap home with him.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
In the past it was confirmed that Z used to take
his work home with him. His wife insisted he stop that. Same with Garza. Apparently both changed their way. That implies to me that their behavior can be modified which leads me to believe it wasn’t a mental illness. Obviously Z’s issues over the years suggest that no one in the organization is good at behavioral modification. Making excuses for bad behavior only encourages renewed episodes.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Mental conditions can also be modified
And medication isn’t always required. You don’t sound like you know a whole lot about this; maybe you do.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I raised a family
was a basketball coach and math teacher and own some bars. I like to think I’ve seen my share of people.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Do you have firsthand experience with mental illness?
I’m sure you have invaluable people skills honed from those experiences. But that doesn’t make you a psychologist. Nor am I one, but I’ve seen mental illness firsthand.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Unfortunately I've had
the sad experience of knowing too many people with problems. Even sadder that a few of them were very close to my heart. However, i don’t claim to be an expert, merely an observer.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Ok, fair enough
I will say again that they can be modified, though.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course that is true
Obviously Z has been modified, but obviously not cured.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
I have a bit of experience in this area...
I agree that anger is not necessarily mental illness. I disagree that mental illness is solely chemical. What many people call mental illness is psychological trauma. PTSD and complex-PTSD are examples of psychological trauma. See this page on bullying and PTSD. If you know kids getting bullied this site can be helpful.
Just because the scars aren’t visible doesn’t make them any less damaging.
And I’m not saying this is true of Z only in general. And whatever the damage, the individual must take responsibility for their own behavior to the degree they are able.
Thanks for the link
I have no idea if Z has had any trauma that he cannot get past. However, you are right, he must take responsibility for his actions. Many times in the past the organization has responded by saying that’s Z being Z. They’ve excused his past experiences bur, even worse, gave him an excuse for continuing along the path.
Yesterday was a predictable episode based upon the past.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Zambrano
He Stink.
And one more thing. Can Ricketts do one thing for the fans next season that wont cost a dime. Burn the ugly blue uniform that looks like it belongs in a beer league softball game. It is the one Zambrano always wears and it will always remind me of this truly disappointing team.
"All of us are in the gutter...some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
by Tingham on Aug 13, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
A huge plus
Helps them immensely….can get a damn good pitcher for $18 M. Maybe the guy from Japan Darvish? Not at all unhappy about this, altho I still think Z can be an OK middle of rotation guy.
Maybe
It’s only a huge plus if Ricketts decides to put that money back into payroll and the money is spent wisely.
No, it's not.
You keep saying this crap, but out of all the dumb stuff Ricketts has done, he’s never once not put the money into this team. You have absolutely no reason to think that he’s pocketing money, yet you keep claiming it should be expected.
The payroll decreased this year...
including one of the most ridiculous backloaded 1-year contracts ever. They way they asked for money from a financially-strapped state. What about this last off-season didn’t scream cheap to you? It’s going to take more than a few million handed out to some teenagers to fix this mess.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Payroll
is not the entire budget. I’m not necessarily saying you’re wrong that Ricketts has his eye on the bottom line more than winning, but he did state during the offseason that this year’s budget was going to see a shift from payroll to scouting and player development, and the fact that they’re developing a new academy in Latin America (the Dominican Republic?) backs up his statement.
by false cognate on Aug 13, 2011 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
The payroll went down $10m this year...
including the ridiculous Pena contract. I love that they’re spending money on the farm finally… they should have done that the whole time. But they could have also used that money to save themselves millions on future contracts for Matt Garza and Geovany Soto. They can convince me they don’t have the money for Fielder/Pujols and Wilson, etc., but they can’t convince me they don’t have money to do smart things. A payroll that stays the same is a payroll that’s decreasing. We Cubs fans deserve a franchise that has an increasing payroll, as in roll it back a few years and keep it growing… like the Phillies did.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
First Bradley and now this.
Al, did Z also try to hit a couple of batters and got ejected? The whole situation is beyond inexcusable. I hope there are consequences, but I’m not convinced there will be. I so dearly miss the 2008 Cubs.
You stinks, Carlos Zambrano!
Had A Nightmare About the 2008 Cubs
that they played the Dodgers in the NLDS, played like Little Leaguers, and got swept. That didn’t actually happen, did it?
Good things come to those who wait... and wait....and wait.
I smell a trip to Africa!
With the money saved on rainouts and this??? Safari time!
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
That's so weird
I had almost the exact same nightmare only instead of 2008 it was 2009! Freaky stuff….
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
Just the product of Hendry's stellar judge of character.
"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL
by HotDogDude on Aug 13, 2011 10:53 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
If Z Truly Retires...
how much money do the Cubs still owe him? I seriously doubt Z has truly retired. When it comes to retiring, I wish Z would retire more batters.
Good things come to those who wait... and wait....and wait.
If he does file retirement papers with MLB...
… they owe him nothing. The same thing happened when Ryne Sandberg suddenly retired in 1994 — different reasons, of course. He walked away from quite a bit of money.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
In That Case...
I don’t think Zambrano will file retirement papers. What happens if he doesn’t file those papers and refuses to play for the team?
Good things come to those who wait... and wait....and wait.
I assume under that circumstance...
… he’d be placed on the restricted list, as he was last year — only this time, he wouldn’t get paid.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Good Then
I’m afraid that the Cubs are going to be forced to release him. I can’t imagine any team wanting Big Z in a trade now.
Good things come to those who wait... and wait....and wait.
And along those lines...
if they release Z, they certainly can’t release Soriano, too. So, Z throws the screws to this club TWICE on exit.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
What does Soriano have to do with Zambrano?
Whoever gets this team out of both of their contracts at one time would be almost as big of a hero as the next guy who gets the Cubs to a World Series… and would probably end up both.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
The point is...
the Cubs aren’t gonna release Z and pay him $19m for next year AND release Soriano and pay him pretty much the same. Thats about $40M dollars for 2 guys who aren’t even on the team? Ain’t happening.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
What does it matter when they provide so little production on the field?
Soriano has nothing to do with Zambrano. The team isn’t any better off because they keep Soriano just because of his salary. Sunk costs, man.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't say Soriano's production is little...
definitely not worth his price tag, but, still somewhat productive. Defensively worthless. Offensively above average.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
And if this team had the DH...
then any of that would matter.
He makes too many outs to care about his potential streaks of solo homers, which you can never count on happening because of his inconsistency and fragility.
There’s no evidence to back up Zambrano not being the better use of $20m. If you can get rid of Zambrano, there’s no reason you can’t get rid of Soriano too… especially since my original point wasn’t about dumping the $40m for nothing… it had to do with either getting value from them OR finding away to not have to pay them at all.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Because this isn't fantasy baseball?
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie
Your comment makes no sense.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
You get what you give
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie
I reject your assessment...
but at least you’re willing to admit you add nothing. Good luck with that.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 14, 2011 1:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Reject it all you want, it's still valid
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie
Full disclosure
If what Zambrano did can be considered “walking out on his teammates” make sure everyone remembers that Ryne Sandberg did the same thing in 1994. Makes no difference what the respective reasons were or whether anger or frustration were a part of them….they both did the same thing if you’re saying they “walked out” on their teammates in the middle of the season.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
by krummy12 on Aug 13, 2011 8:14 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
You have got to be kidding.
The two situations are not even remotely comparable.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
by Al Yellon on Aug 13, 2011 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Save the outrage Al
I’m just pointing out the fact. And yes, they are the same. A guy “retired” mid-season for personal reasons after being counted on by his teammates. Do you think the Cubs players in 1994 felt any better towards Sandberg for stepping aside? In fact, I’d bet that some Cubs players feel better about Zambrano leaving now than they did when Sandberg left in 1994, much earlier in the season.
I like Sandberg as much as the next guy but you’re letting Zambrano’s perception as the angry ogre cloud your judgment if you don’t think Sandberg’s teammates felt as though he “walked out” on them in 1994. No matter whether that perception is reality.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
Sandberg did not clear out his locker during a game and leave without telling anyone where he was going.
As I said, the two situations are not remotely comparable. If you believe so, you are fooling yourself.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
by Al Yellon on Aug 13, 2011 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Details
Fooling yourself? Those kinds of comments assume I take this as seriously as you do.
Secondly, your looking only at the details. The net results are the same. A player retired mid-season….no matter how you want to spin it.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
One could make the argument...
that Ryno’s abrupt decision to quit was much more damning to the Cubs than Zambrano’s (assuming he’s actually quitting, which I don’t believe at all).
More damning?
How?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
He was...
the face of the Cubs, a franchise icon by that point. Finding a 2B to replace his production would be hard enough, let alone finding someone to take over as the face.
Zambrano is pretty mediocre at this point, and if he does call it quits, him giving up that 18M will most certainly be doing the Cubs a favor.
Agreed
Particularly during as season that has been over since April.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
Pfft.
Look at the 1994 Cubs. Their season was over in April, too.
And LOOK at Sandberg’s number from early 1994. He was bad. He didn’t walk away when he was hitting 25 HRs a year in 1991-92.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I remember this story quite well.
Sandberg actually had a pretty good April in 1994, but he went stone cold in May (I remember then-hitting coach Billy Williams talking about it on WGN shortly after Ryno retired).
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Sandberg's had many reasons for quitting,
but a primary one was his that he couldn’t stand Larry Himes, and realized the Cubs were going nowhere with him in charge.
by Clark Addison on Aug 13, 2011 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I get the feeling...
that Zambrano feels the same way about Mike Quade. I get the impression that Zambrano, like every other player, has a lot of respect for Hendry, but given Z’s comments and actions this season, I don’t feel like he respects Quade as a manager.
Can’t say that I blame him.
On this I agree with you.
Hell, Z made it known he had very little respect for Quade and then tried to cover it as “a joke”
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
There is no question...
…that Z and likely most of the players have no respect what so ever for Quade.
On Hendry, the players love the guy because he gives them what ever they need, but if they respected Hendry, they wouldn’t embarass the organization. Hendry is not a leader of a winning organization and that has trickled down for years.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Aug 13, 2011 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Players needs to stop getting a pass for being a "slow starter."
It’s not fair to the other players to be forced to compensate for those guys. If has an entire team of slow starters, you’d be out of the race every year by mid-May.
by stuartscottslefteye on Aug 13, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
...and then back in it by August...
as long as their front office didn’t give up on them. See Athletics, Oakland and Rockies, Colorado.
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by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
The reason Sandberg retired ...
was that his production was falling through the floor.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
That doesn't change the fact...
yes, fact… that he walked out on his team during the middle of the season. It’s not as if it were the offseason and the Cubs GM had a contingency plan if he weren’t able to sign a FA or acquire a guy. He put the Cubs in a bind whether you want to admit it or not.
And for the record, I grew up idolizing Ryne Sandberg and I wanted him to manage this team. I have nothing against him whatsoever.
It doesn't change the fact that he retired mid-season.
It DOES change the fact that what Sandberg did and what Zambrano did are miles apart.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
That's where you're wrong.
HOW they did it is very different. WHAT they did is the exact same thing – Sandberg quit on the other 24 guys on his team, and so did (supposedly) Zambrano.
The details matter.
The HOW matters. The history matters. The personal situation matters. I’m not giving Sandberg a blank check, but throwing him in with Z is ridiculous.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
C'mon, you're not that naive
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Your argument is without reason....
Many older players see that they do not have it during the season and retire.
AFTER A GAME!!!!!
When you can show me when Sandberg started a fight by throwing balls at the other team or charging the mound or something…Then cleaning out his locker and leaving before the game ended…
Then I will agree with you.
So if...
Zambrano would have waited an hour and then retired AFTER THE GAME (!!!) then you’d be 100% okay with this? Honestly?
You’re issue is that he left DURING THE GAME (!!!) that he wasn’t permitted to watch anymore anyways?
Maybe if he hadn't tried to kill Chipper Jones
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Jones was going to get killed by a mediocre fastball
thrown at his thigh? I know he’s been injury prone, but that’s just weird.
"The cheaper the hood, the gaudier the talk" - Philip Marlowe
by ForTheLoveOfBiitner on Aug 13, 2011 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
You know what?
You can make valid points about Zambrano’s illness. There is absolutely no way you can justify his actions.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Fair criticism, sir. I likely overreacted to your hyperbole.
I’m not saying it’s socially acceptable to do what he did. I will accept that what I wrote can be read that way and would be wrong. He could have hurt Chipper and that would be his responsibility to deal with. I’m just not sure he actually wanted to hurt someone.
"The cheaper the hood, the gaudier the talk" - Philip Marlowe
by ForTheLoveOfBiitner on Aug 13, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
He was committing an act that has been shown
over and over and over to hurt people. Even if Chipper wasn’t “injured” have you ever been hit in the leg by a baseball traveling more than 80 MPH?
It effing hurts
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, it does.
See my previous clarification and mea culpa.
"The cheaper the hood, the gaudier the talk" - Philip Marlowe
by ForTheLoveOfBiitner on Aug 13, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I have been...
…nailed by 95mph pitches and yes, it hurts like hell, especially when you are nailed in certain spots.
What was most wrong about what Zambrano did was going after a very well respected player in Chipper Jones. When and if Z comes up to bat again in the big leagues, I would bet he gets dusted.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Are you suggesting that
it makes a difference who Z tried to hit with a pitch? Uggla had just hit the 5th HR off him that day. Chipper was the very next batter. Z just tried to hit him. That’s Z. He has never been known to someone who deals in long thoughtful planning.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
In regards...
…to retribution, yes, it does matter.
Players who are respected accross the league (like Jones), will have other clubs wishing to send a message even stronger than if it was another player. Trust me, when he bats again (if he is in NL), he will get thrown at.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
It makes it worth that it was Chipper...
wouldn’t make it right to be anyone else, but gutless and deplorable to such an important player during maybe his last chance at the playoffs.
Just imagine what might have happened had one of those pitches connected.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
and started throwing at people becasue he was having a baby hissyfit...
If the Braves thought were not classy enough to see that it was not the Cubs and only Z who was freaking out, which one of the Cubs the next inning was going to have to pay for Z’s crap?
Yes I could have dealt with it if he retired this morning or something. We would all be happy becasue his contract will be gone.
But he is not going to retire, and will be pitching again soon.
That's easy.
For years, the Cubs have put up with Zambrano’s juvenile antics. He has promised to change multiple times, and each time, he’s failed to make good on his promise.
Sandberg had a spotless record. He had credit to burn. Z’s credit ran out sometime in 2007.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Everything that you say...
is accurate. However, that doesn’t change the fact that the end result is still the same. Regardless of whether or not a player has been ejected from games in the past, or blown up in the dugout in the past, if at the end of the day he abruptly decides to quit, then he’s still a quitter.
Zambrano is much easier to replace than Sandberg was. I stand by my statement that Ryno’s abrupt decision to retire was much more damning than Zambrano’s is (if he does in fact call it quits).
Wow.
If you’ll forgive a crude comparison, you’re essentially saying that a guy who is guilty of killing someone in a crime of passion is the same as someone who’s a serial murderer.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Holy crap.
Are you really not getting the point? You realize that if someone is found guilty of killing 12 people, he’s going to get a harsher sentence than someone who killed one person?
Please, please tell me you realize this.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
hahahah -- I'm being absurd?!
I’m tired of your silly little comparison. And I’ve got stuff to do on this beautiful Saturday.
Later.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
MY silly little comparison?
You’re the one who brought up murdering in a discussion of Sandberg and Zambrano. I thought it was an incredibly twisted (to put it lightly) thing to actually say, but since you’re seemingly a pretty normal poster I looked past it. Don’t start getting all up in arms with me though.
An observation - not about either of you
People don’t seem to like analogies.
There is NO WAY elgato was saying the action of either man was on par with murder, and you know this. But human nature seems to dictate when someone is disagreeing with someone else, that an analogy or comparison gets taken out of context and becomes the next argument. Interesting.
On the topic at hand, I think you’re way off base. Sandberg was probably done in April if not before, but he tried to stick it out. Sometimes people have personal issues to work through, and we all have to figure out how to do it in our own CONSTRUCTIVE way. Zambrano has never done this and has a history of lacking accountability.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
DINGDINGDING
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions
OK, here's another perspective.
I am certain that when Sandberg retired in 1994, he sat down with his teammates and explained why he was doing it and I doubt he sprung it on them as any sort of surprise.
That wasn’t the case last night.
The difference really is as simple as that.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Sandberg's wife filed for divorce a...
…few months before the 1994 season. They wound up reconciling but the strain on their marriage probably added to the pressures of Sandberg’s failing on field performance and he abruptly retired. Soon after his retirement (within a month) his wife filed for divorce a second time and their marriage ended.
HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SANDBERG AND ZAMBRANO.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Aug 13, 2011 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That was years before.
What troutfishin says is true.
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THANK you.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
While I agree with much of your thinking
I’d have to disagree with the value of Z next year and the value of Sandberg in 1995. Ryno’s skills had clearly declined. Z on the other hand still is capable of offering a number of quality years to the team.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
...except he's only signed for one more...
thank god.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't disagree with that.
My point was simply that Z has more value moving forward. than Sandberg did at the time of his retirement.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Maybe...
unless his arm keeps degrading like it looks like it has. It’s not just a maturity problem with Z. He’s really pitched horrible too.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't say horrible
he was on a track to throw 200 innings. And he has had 13 quality starts.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Wrong...
he currently is the 91st best pitcher in FIP among those that qualify. The number of innings and quality starts are you reaching for anything positive to say about him.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Let me get thiis straight
FIP is the true measure of a pitcher but innings throw and quality starts are meaningless?
Listen, I’m not saying Z is an All Star but he’s not horrible like you claimed. Horrible pitchers don’t have 13 quality starts and aren’t on track to toss 200 innings.
He’s had 24 starts and in over half of them he’s pitched well enough to win. Problem is he’s stunk in many of the other games. In 7 games he’s allowed 5 or more runs. He allows too many runners but he also strands more than the average pitcher. In the end his 9-7 W/L record is certainly not horrible.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
quality start is about as meaningful as the save stat
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2011 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree
It’s an independent evaluation of performance. Saves are a variable based upon runs ahead. However, BS% is meaningful.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Continually attempting to hit someone with a blunt object traveling over 80 MPH
could be considered psychotic. He didn’t flip out and start screaming, he was clearly trying to hit/hurt people with no regard for others.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
By your definition
almost all pitchers have psychotic episodes. Look, I don’t agree with Z’s behavior yesterday but throwing at batters is accepted in the baseball world. I also agree Z was wrong in throwing at Chipper. But to assert that anyone throwing at a hitter is psychotic is over the top.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
No they don't
and I knew you were going to counter with that. We don’t see what Z did often at all. There’s a difference between one retaliatory hit batsman and what Z was doing.
So, basically,
anyone throwing at a hitter is psychotic is over the top
Isn’t what I was asserting
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Your words not mine
Continually attempting to hit someone with a blunt object traveling over 80 MPH
could be considered psychotic
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Continually being the difference between what he said
And what you claimed he said.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions
So once makes it OK
but twice makes it psychotic?
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Once could be heat of the moment
Twice?
I don’t know. But heat of the moment isn’t as likely.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually he retired because
he lost his love for the game and the desire to compete because of all the crap that had gone on in the Cubs organization the last two years prior to 1994 and also because he finally wanted to spend time with his family and do stuff other families got to do during the summer.
I say this with certainty because I just finished his book about the whole situation.
I can go into more detail if you want.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Aug 13, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Sandberg Perhaps Thought He Was Helping Team
Ryno hadn’t regained the power he lost from that wrist injury he suffered in spring training of 1993. He was nowhere near the same player in 1994 that he was in 1992. I’m thinking that Ryno thought he was maybe hurting the team by playing.
Good things come to those who wait... and wait....and wait.
Nonsense
Players are selfish by nature. Every single one of them. Ryne Sandberg did not retire in 1994 because of some noble reason that he believed he was hurting the team.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
You need to think about what you're saying.
Sandberg was late in his career. He had personal problems and he really wasn’t playing well. He didn’t leave his team in the middle of a game — and he also hadn’t acted like a crazy person for the better part of a decade.
Maybe Z has personal problems we don’t know about. But even if he does, the situation has enough other differences to put your comparison firmly in the apples/oranges variety.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
by elgato on Aug 13, 2011 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Same situation
Zambrano is late in his career. Zambrano has personal problems, that much is crystal clear. Zambrano isn’t remotely close to what he once was. Zambrano left after he was removed from a game…done for the day. The only part that isn’t the same is that Sandberg wasn’t crazy.
So yes, there are many similarities including the net result as I’m trying to point out.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
Well, first of all, I thought you didn't care about the details.
Now you’re trying to spin them to fit your theory?
This is NOT the same situation, it’s not remotely the same. Sandberg didn’t have a yearly meltdown, and the personal problems that he had were NEW in 1994. He wasn’t a trainwreck for the better part of a decade.
And Z just left in the middle of a game. That is a HUGE no-no in baseball. I guarantee that if you asked a member of the 1994 Cubs they would tell you that what Sandberg did then is NOTHING like what Z did last night.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Nor did Sandberg take action during his last game that could have gotten his teammates hurt
(or the other team)
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep!!!
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
May I refer you to the Holliday/Castro incident
There was an almost universal call for retaliation. Players get thrown at all the time. It’s been going on forever. As long as it’s below the waist, the baseball world accepts it.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
There wasn't a call for Cubs pitchers to bean as many Cardinals as came to the plate
which is what Zambrano appeared to be starting to do.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
And that was in retaliation
For a dirty play by Holliday, not because the Cardinal line up was tee-ing off on the Cubs pitcher.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
Again I agree that throwing teo successive pitches
at Chipper was terribly wrong. However I disagree that throwing at opposing batters is per se evil and psychotic. Fact is, Quade should have already removed Z from the game. Our manager saw what everyone else saw and did nothing. Where was our manager?
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
It's 100% irrelevant to the conversation.
“Where was our manager?”
Because Zambrano is a grown ass man.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Your claim that it was irrelevant is nonsense
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
No
I’m simply responding to the details you brought up and comparing them to this situation.
And no matter what you believe about leaving in the middle of a game as a big “no-no”, there are two Cubs, Ramirez and Byrd, already on record that doing so didn’t bother them. Trust me, that happens far more than you are aware…but I’m guessing that perhaps the Sosa situation from a few years back is what you’re using to base your belief.
The fact remains….the net result is the same. No matter whether the media lightning rod did it or the media golden boy did it.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
What are Byrd and Aramis going to say?
If Z comes back — and there’s a good chance that he will — they have to live with the guy. Also, Aramis said he’d never seen anything like this before. So I’ll take a ballplayer’s opinion on how rare this is over yours, krummy.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Aram also said that he would take him back
but he couldnt speak for the other 23 guys on the team
by LT on Aug 13, 2011 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Elgato nailed it
I do think Sandberg has gotten a bit of a free ride for that weird move, but on the other hand, he certainly had a ton of credibility before thar
"It's all in the game, yo"
This is all speculation on my part....
but i’m sure Sandberg told his teammates, in a calm and civilized fashion, that he felt he was done, that his second base days as a Chicago cub are over that he had nothing left. Zambrano didnt have the balls to say anything to his teammates, he literally left them with out a word.
but argue this down because it is speculation, but compare the two guys’ characters.
by epsilon on Aug 13, 2011 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
On Sandberg...
I’ve always felt that another small part of Sandberg retiring when he did had to do with the big contract he had just signed and the writing on the call of the strike of 94.
I think he saw the writing on the wall and just couldn’t see being part of a strike just after signing the 28 Million dollar contract…
Fire Jim Hendry... out of a cannon...
That may be part of it.
But not all of it, obviously.
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Oh I don't think that was all of it either...
and maybe part of why I think that is that Sandberg was quoted after he retired
“It’s never been a big part of my thinking or why I played the game,” Sandberg said when the subject of money arose. “It’s not the thing that motivated me.”
“I just feel like I didn’t have what it takes to bounce back,” Sandberg said. “I’ve always played the game for fun and for enjoyment.”
Fire Jim Hendry... out of a cannon...
epically bad comparison
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 13, 2011 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Talk about pre-judging, or using a blanket stereotype to cover Ryno
Sandberg was a selfless NOT selfish player. I am sure he liked having good numbers, but he was ALWAYS team first!
Many many players are truly selfish, and it tends to be those players that seek the spotlight, just like lawyers it is not the good ones people hear about, but it is the crummy a sneaky ones that give a bad name to all, same goes for the primadonas in sports.
Though it is not the highlight or front page thing, many players in many sports are willing to sacrifice their own stats to WIN. I never ever saw anything about Ryno to say other wise, in 1990 when he was leading the NL is HR, he never starred and admired his blast, and the only time you would seem him react was when it tied a game or gave the TEAM the lead.
I’m sure Ryno loved and enjoyed having good numbers, but I am also 100% certain those numbers were always second to Winning.
Ryno left the game in 1994, because part of the game left him. If he felt he could actually help the team win on the field he, I am sure, would have stayed. But if he felt he was hampering the team, not helping his choice of action he felt was needed. Think about it, what Manager would in their right mind bench Ryne Sandberg? He new his name carried weight, it carried the fans, and as long as he was a Cub the fans would always want him to play, even if another players production would have been better for the team. If it is this realization he came to, that the best way he could help the team, was to leave the team so someone else could do more on the field and the box, how is this in the most remote sense selfish?
That is truly selfless, and something that fits the character of Ryne Sandberg as a player and now Manager.
“because the name on the front is more – a lot more important than the name on the back”
Preemptive Palomino, lets talk political stuff elsewhere .
Second City Hockey, It's not just Blackhawks Hockey, it's bashing the Cannots too!
Sarcasm is implied, unless I am serious
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Aug 13, 2011 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Mike Schmidt in 1989
He retired in May 1989 thinking correctly that he didn’t have it anymore. If you feel Sandberg walked out on the Cubs in 1994, then you could say that Schmidt walked out on the Phillies in 1989.
Good things come to those who wait... and wait....and wait.
Yes you could
Everyone wants to talk about the details. Who cares about the details in this case? It’s only professional sports and the net result is a guy “retired”. Who cares how or why? Everyone is concerned about the story…but why? Move on.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
What the hell?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions
This is among the most tone deaf comments I've ever seen on BCB.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Among??
I’d ask for a link to something worse, but I don’t think I’d want to see it.
I think you're selling our little site short.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
You're so right. Other in-season quitters include Mike Schmidt, Jim Palmer, Ken Griffey Jr., Tom Seaver, Whitey Ford...
…each guilty of abandoning teammates when they simply couldn’t cut it anymore, which is the same thing Sandberg did in 2004. That’s hardly the case with Zambrano today.
"Elder White! Look at the talent on those Cubs!" Harry Caray, KMOX Radio, 4/22/62
"And you have to wonder – What's the matter with Broglio?" Harry, KMOX, 5/24/64
I've always liked Z...
I’ve put his passion for the game ahead of the stupid things that he’s done, and looked past them. Big Z is one of the most entertaining players I’ve ever rooted for. I want to continue to like him and see him pitch for the Cubs. But I just don’t understand the guy. You have a terrible start and you call it quits for good? This is not the behavior of a normal adult. I don’t know if the guy needs professional help, or if he just doesn’t give a shit.
I think he was pissed because he was having to take one for the team
He was more concerned about his ERA than the condition of the bullpen. Nobody made any errors so he had no one else to blame like previous outbursts. That said I thought Q should have had someone ready to go in. It was like watching a train wreck. You knew it was coming the way the Braves were teeing off on him.
by LT on Aug 13, 2011 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it's ridiculous...
to suggest that he was more concerned about his ERA than the condition of the bullpen. Name me one player who shows more passion for this team than Carlos Zambrano. Z may do a lot of stupid shit, but to suggest that he’s not a team player isn’t right.
That's why he packed up and walked out on his team?
You’re kidding right?
by LT on Aug 13, 2011 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Obviously...
the timing of my argument couldn’t be less ideal, but as someone who has followed this team very closely during Z’s entire time here, it’s hard to take anyone seriously who says that Z isn’t a team player. Who’s the first one out to celebrate a walk off? Who’s the pitcher who is ALWAYS standing on the top step watching the game on his off days? Who’s the one always chatting up teammates? Do you ever see Zambrano NOT engaged with a teammate?
From accounts of people who really know him
he sounds like a good guy. I just don’t think you can have him on this team going forward if you ever want to start moving this team in the right direction.
by LT on Aug 13, 2011 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Z's passion of the game is fake
He comes off as caring about only 1 thing, himself. How many other pitchers do we have taking extra batting practies, and swinging as hard as he can every pitch instead of trying to make consistant contact?
He has wasted what could have been a special talent.
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Aug 13, 2011 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions
LOL...
Stupid Zambrano and his taking extra BP. How dare he spend extra time trying to improve his game.
Yeah, that's a pretty dumb argument IMO.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah...Timing on this argument is less than ideal...
however, I think most of us commented the other day on when Tony Campana hit his inside the park homerun…who lifted the guy up? it was Z and he was loving it…he took quite possibly the least talented person on the cubs team and lifted him up… he’s probably a good teammate, but he’s got insane moments of selfishness that ruin any “credit” he builds up.
well TJ11 was right
there was going to be a poster who would defend Zambrano. Nobody would have believed that last night.
If I'm defending him...
it’s because I like the guy and I feel bad for him, because he obviously has some issues. And, as I’ve said before, he obviously messed up here – big time – but that doesn’t mean people should just start making shit up about him now.
LOUD APPLAUSE
he did what any else might do given their situation .. and in so doing, like Z, anyone can do stupid stuff and alienate anyone around them in the doing.
.. but I’m not defending his head hunting, his walking out on his team, cleaning out his locker and then muttering he’s retiring over the shoulder as his team tried to clean up the crap he left on the field .. He crossed some serious lines here and this may be one he’s not going to get Anger Managed back over. Ramirez’ comment on what he did was spot on.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
Um ...
I’m not defending his head hunting, his walking out on his team, cleaning out his locker and then muttering he’s retiring over the shoulder as his team tried to clean up the crap he left on the field
Are you sure about that?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Nuttier than squirrel shit.
What else can you say about Z? I can see frustration, I can see self confidence plummet. But when is enough enough? I bet he calms down and apologizes. But I could never trust him again. Time to move on.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
by mrcubsfan on Aug 13, 2011 8:20 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Whoa...
WTF is up with the Head and Shoulders twitter feed ad? What a complete embarrassment.
I want the old BCB back.
by kanderber on Aug 13, 2011 8:20 AM CDT reply actions 7 recs
Yeah, I saw that.
Sixth graders are more mature than that individual. I’m going to make some inquiries today about that.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Hey, Em
You asked me a question in another thread:
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2011/8/1/2310290/for-those-who-always-wanted-to-block-users
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions
It's not an SBN mod
it’s an add on to google chrome browser
by LT on Aug 13, 2011 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Understood!
And no prob
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Dude is supposedly 22
Emphasis on supposedly, and this is his behavior after essentially banning himself. It is really scarry, but that’s the internet for ya.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 8:47 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Is that really him, though?
My guess is someone else is doing it.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions
That's possible.
In any case, I am working to get that removed.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Al himself can contact Twitter
or have SBN do it for security reasons to see if they can match the IP address. If it’s him, then great, he’s gone anyway and this is just him digging himself deeper. If it’s someone else on here though, they should probably be banned too.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it may be him.
On the fake Al account, the description is “I’m tired of your schtick.” I seem to remember SG mocking Al for saying that a few times.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Al said that to SWL like three times last night
Maybe it was Dan!!!!
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
OH NOES
In that case, ignore what I said should happen.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
DOUBLE STANDARD, SON
And by son, I mean shoemile.
Yeah, that’s right. Whatcha gonna do, brother?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd be shocked if it was him
The person made 3 accounts, 2 different SG twitter accounts and a NotJerryMeals account so he’s obviously not an NBF fan either.
Whatever the case...
… I’m sure all of you would rather have it gone, and I’m 100% certain the sponsor would like it gone, if that’s what it is going to be.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Oh absolutely... it's disturbing
And actually the person didn’t make only 3 accounts, they made 5, 3 SG accounts, NJM, and one named “Al_Yellon”
Yeah. Just when I was thinking things would settle down around here.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I saw that account impersonating me.
I’ve sent in a report to Twitter.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Don't you feel kinda special with someone impersonating you?
I mean even if it was bad things, I’d be like “Hey, I’m cool enough for someone to want to be me!” Or is that just me?
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Except
You’re not the moderator of the site, and I don’t think that’s the kind of environment that Al wants to promote.
Things have gotten REAL ugly around here lately.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Things have gotten pretty bad, that's what happens in a horrible season.
I don’t remember this last year though.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
No, this is much worse.
I’ve contacted Twitter.
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It's becoming occassionally embarrassing
to visit (ok. slightly overstated)
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
I really don't need the web filter software at work to ban BCB/SN
If both BCB and WCG were banned from work because the automated monitoring software decides that it’s “mature” then I’m going to be very sad.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 13, 2011 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions
NO
100 times no. This is a slippery slope where something like this can easily cross the line into criminal (and I mean felony) territory.
Al is doing the right thing on documenting the issue ASAP.
Just win the next game...!
Twitter is good about that. Someone tried to take my name as moderator on another forum and made a twitter account in that name. Twitter took it down in about 3 hours.
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
by puckishcubsfan on Aug 13, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
You have entered an elite group
The guy who starred in “The Social Nework” researched his role by setting up a fake Facebook account as Peter Sagal of “Wait, Wait Don’t Tell Me.” Congrats, Al, you are even with the guy who hosts a show with 3 million listeners.
I've seen impersonation before here.
There was an extremely vitriolic FanPost about a year ago (which thankfully was deleted) where someone was using Al’s profile picture as his SB Nation account picture.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
LOL
I can assure you, I am not Senna. I remember watching the 1994 San Marino GP live, and just knowing something bad happened when Senna smashed into the wall.
That day, Formula 1 changed for the worse.
Who’s in your avatar?
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Jim Clark in 1967
That’s where “Clarkfan” comes from. Started using the name on F1 sites and just adopted it everywhere, with a favorite car model designation as a password. Makes this whole Internet navigating thing easier.
honestly, last night when i was reading it...
i thought an individual on BCB had gone too far, and i felt embarrassed that someone would to that to SG as annoying as he is, that was just too far….THEN i learned that he had been banned and he was doing it himself….that guy’s postal.
I really don't think it's him
It’s ugly, but I don’t think it’s SG.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually, I do think it's him.
He seems mentally unbalanced, and when I banned him from BCB, this was the only way he could “fight back”.
Some people… really, I just don’t understand this at all.
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But why would he insult himself?
And NBF, who was one of his last defenders?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I suppose
I stopped reading them, anyway. Just like his posts. I really think it’s the blocking feature and the fact that several of us used it that made him go unhinged. He just liked the attention.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions
LOL
Funny idea. But no, I don’t think so.
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Mentally unbalanced is right
I’ve never seen anyone so addicted to just blatantly starting fights on a daily basis and honestly believing they were not at fault and being picked on for no reason. Professional trolls on 4chan aren’t even that good. And everything with this twitter account reeks of something he’d do.
If it’s someone else though, they should probably be banned.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
whoa whoa whoa
As the uninvited, no one asked me but I’m going to say it anyway legal counsel here, again, be VERY careful about saying it’s him unless you have proof, and especially refrain from making comments about him being mentally unbalanced. This has gone far past normal posting on a blog. It’s one thing for others, which they shouldn’t do anyway, but it’s another for you Al, as there’s an assumption you have access to info to back up your assertion.
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie
Yeah, sadly
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
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Dude. you really need to get over yourself.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Dude, whatever
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie
Honest question...
how long have you been out of law school
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Honest answer
Longer than you know
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
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Alright, I ask because generally the newbie lawyers are the ones who love to throw around that they are in fact lawyers
and bring in legal jargon where there’s no need for it.
SG doesn’t have a cause of action just because Al said he thought it was the real SG. SG doesn’t even really have a cause of action against whoever started the blog.
SG would also have to establish that there was any relationship beyond casual arguments between himself and Al before he tried to claim that Al somehow had more knowledge about the situation simply because he’s a mod.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
The question you asked.....
… usually leads to Ad Hominem attacks, hence the type of answer I gave. Moreover, if I were to state what I did without the qualifier, the very next question out of more than a few people here would be “what are you, a lawyer?”, so I’ve found that it saves time just to say it at the outset when I offer an unsolicited semi-legal opinion. And please note I did say no one asked me.
And, while your analysis is sort of in the ballpark, you’re forgetting one thing. Many plaintiffs don’t need an actionable/winnable case to file. People can sue for anything and cause the Respondent grief, which is often the intent. Doesn’t make it right, but it happens all the time in all areas of the law. Many Respondents settle not based on whether the facts are on their side, but in how much it will cost to defend and win versus how much it costs just to make the person go away. Recovering attorney fees is never a certainty. Internet defamation suits are crapshoots, and it’s an evolving area of the law. Better not to tempt fate and say things that can give those inclined a reason to cause further trouble legally.
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie
SG actually filing any sort of suit is about a million to one shot
and as I said, it’s generally the newbies who offer up unsolicited legal advice and behave as though every action has legal ramifications.
We aren’t in a courtroom here counselor. The same rules don’t always apply.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
I realize that he probably would get lost on his way to a lawyer
But anyone, whether a new lawyer or an old one, their radar goes off in situations like this. It’s a curse.
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie
And....
….. just for full disclosure purposes, I’ve been a child support enforcement attorney for a rather large county here in California for a long time now.
Also, it gets real frustrating trying to post anything far up the thread when people post things so far below. The screen just jerks up and you lose your place. Arrrgghh.
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
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I said only "I think it's him".
In any case, I am taking care of this from a SBN standpoint, and have also contacted Twitter because WHOEVER this is, has also created an account impersonating me.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
FWIW,
The H&S Twitter feed is no longer there. There’s now an advertisement there instead.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes.
I had it removed temporarily. Thanks to the SBN support people for helping me do that.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Don't try to understand just keep doing what you're doing buddy
Document, document, document.
Just win the next game...!
My ten-year-old cousin is more mature than him.
Talk about blowing something way out of proportion.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't usually do this in threads
But in this case, I think it’s necessary to announce that I have banned this individual. He will not be allowed back.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I was waiting for my Head and Shoulders comment from SG and I woke up and there it was....
I guess I prefer dark meat?
Can't he just make a new one, or does it ban the IP address?
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure he can't change his style
He’d be found out soon enough
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Long over due.
Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the ground each morning the devil says, "OH CRAP, SHE'S UP"!
Not to mention...
It’s causing loading problems on occasion. May be specific to this one machine, though when I “NoScript” twitter.com, the hangs end.
Z tried to hit Chipper once and missed - and then came back in further inside...
After he was tossed, he just calmly walked off the mound toward the dugout. The Braves rushed out of the dugout and the Cubs just sat there on the bench frozen. Right or wrong, that’s probably the moment Big Z decided he’s had enough.
I went to bed after the game and didn’t find out about Z clearning out his locker until this morning. I agree with you, Al. The whole situation is just sad. I don’t wish this were happening to another team, I just wish it weren’t happening to the Cubs…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
The team is tired of Z's childish antics
I believe it was Aram that said after the game that the Braves did nothing to deserve that.
by LT on Aug 13, 2011 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions
You are right.....
Atlanta didn’t do anything to deserve it, but as a “team” the Cubs still should have stood up to make sure nothing was going to happen.
Its similar to having a crazy little brother. He may run his mouth and do things to get himself into trouble, but as his brother, you always defend him, whether he’s right or wrong. You deal with your little brother after you are sure the situation he got himself into has been resolved.
by BigCubbie on Aug 13, 2011 8:31 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
yes, this is basically what I was trying to say
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I think that Z was on his own on this one after throwing at Jones
Jones is about the one player least likely to showboat on a home run. He runs from the start and only watches to make sure the ball goes out. No antics, no bat flipping, no admiring looks. Z stepped way over the bounds with his actions and deserved no support from his teammates for being that kind of an ass.
sometimes the little brother
has to sleep in the bed he made for himself. Hiding behind big brother isn’t something that can go on forever.
"Playoffs?!" -Jim Mora
by Castro Por Presidente on Aug 13, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Here's the thing, right or wrong
This team doesn’t seem to pull together. This is probably going to come out sounding dumb but I’m going to try it anyway.
While Zambrano was out of line, it says something that not one Cub came to his defense when the Braves were ready to rush the field. The same type of situation happened when Starlin was spiked by Holliday. No reaction from the team other than to stick up for Holliday. Let’s face it, there have been plenty of times when a player has done something really dumb, and his teammates have backed him up and then LATER said “yeah he was probably out of line”
This “team” strikes me more as 25 guys all desperately trying to get their numbers up rather than an actual team.
I am not IN ANY WAY trying to defend Zambrano, but to see not a single Cub react to the Braves getting ready to rush the field? That’s a bit disconcerting to me. It tells me more than anything else that this clubhouse desperately needs some lysol.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions
You have to wonder if the guys that do care like Reed and Wood are just completely sick of the entire situation.
Lazy players and horrid coaching….
It has to be tough to be on a team without any heart or leadership.
What is worse...
…is when Quade jumped all over Castro a few weeks ago in a game the Cubs got killed in and then he watches Soriano “hot dog” a ball he hit last night and says nothing about it.
Trust me, this guy has no respect in the clubhouse.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
In that regard I'm sure he's thrilled about the Z situation
Completely allowed him to escape any questions that might (however slim a chance) have been asked about that.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
That is at the heart of the story.
But I haven’t read a single report where the writer has asked any player why they didn’t come out of the dugout.
Another huge question is “where’s the cancer”? Was Zambrano it? Or is it Quade? Listach? Riggins? Campana?
"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo
They'd never ask that question, as for "where's the cancer"
I think there are several malignant tumors.
though I think Campana’s probably innocent :)
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
I am sure its Campana "stupid kid, always hustling!" LOL
I bet it does piss off some of the lazy players though, him showing them up
Any reporter with half a brain would ask it, worded in a different way of course.
But this is Chicago and Bruce Miles doesn’t travel much anymore. Never mind.
"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo
I don't think any reporter would actually ask that
“Hey ARAM why didn’t you back up your teammate?” It would come off as insulting no matter how you asked it.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I 100% agree...
This team doesn’t exactly lack talent. I’d argue that the Cubs are more talented than the Tigers. I’d say the only positions the Tigers have an advantage at is 1st, catcher, and shortstop maybe. They have Verlander, but our pitching is deeper. Why are the Tigers better?
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
On paper...
…I would agree, but one big issue with Hendry has always been getting the right pieces that fit together, as opposed to having some good players.
Also, the culture in the entire baseball operation is very different than what you would see in other successful organizations. There is no sense of a specific direction, no accountability towards winning first and a lack of general leadership.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Aug 13, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
That pretty much sums it up well enough.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Done.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Dombrowski's a better GM than Hendry
in that he generally gets the right mix of guys. However Leyland is as big a fraud as Quade.
I don't know...
…Leyland is somewhat like Piniella was, both guys managed with a lot of passion for most of their careers. With these types of guys, I think they just run out of gas after a while, because it is very difficult to maintain that type of emotional energy as you get older.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Is there a video of the ejection anywhere?
I missed the game.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Al, he's a selfish pile of manure
check the first game thread and this had nothing to do with walking out on the team. It’s obvious he didn’t have it and the Cubs didn’t want to burn out their bullpen in the fifth inning of what was a sure loss. Instead of taking one for the team he takes himself out of the game by throwing at Jones. He’s a selfish piece of crap, period. Total and utter disgrace. You’ll never win with guys like this. That’s why Hendry needs to go, contracts ties to players who are not winners.
By the way, didn’t you love Bobby Cox’s commentary? The guy was great pointing out Zambrano’s mechanical flaw (wonder if Riggins noticed) and the dysfunction of the Cubs organization when he was there in the ’60’s.
You couldn’t be more right about Ricketts, either make changes now or I’m gonna tell him to just put the team up for sale if he’s incapable of making any type of changes. Enough is enough.
I'm sick of people saying how passionate Z was and how much he cared
If he cared so much, he wouldn’t pack up and leave.
If he cared so much, he wouldn’t talke badly about his team.
If he cared so much, he would have focused more on trying to be the best pitcher possible instead of taking extra batting practice.
If he cared so much, he would work on his anger and not do stupid crap like throw at a guy when you having a bad night.
If he cared so much, his teammated would have rushed to his side when the Braves start to clear their bench but no Cubs exit the dugout.
If he retires, will he go down as one of the better Cubs pitchers? Yes. He could have been the best Cubs pitcher based off of his first 5-6 years of his career.
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Aug 13, 2011 8:24 AM CDT reply actions
He cared too much
Z always lacked emotional control. He loves baseball, he loves the Cubs, he loves his family with every fiber of his being. When he can’t pitch well, that hurts. When he can’t help the team win, that hurts. He when he realized he could no longer do two things he loved—pitch and win—he decided maybe it was time to retire.
That’s not really a defense—it still means he walks out on his job and his team, which is pretty much indefensible. But since he’s discussed early retirement several times before, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s serious.
Zambrano always has
long stretches where it looks like he might finally have it all together, but inevitably another meltdown occurs. Can’t we just once and for all say that this is just who he is and he isn’t going to change? I think he’s just very immature and always will be. If he has truly retired I don’t have a problem with that; I think he’s an overpriced middle of the rotation guy. A decent pitcher but certainly not an ace or superstar. Time to move on.
Contracts and history considered ..
.. I don’t think Zambrano’s done with the Cubs yet.
.. Just when you think someone has grown up .. ay chihuhua ..
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
Excuse me, let me get the euphemism correct here
"¡Ay, Chihuahua!"
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
All I can say is this whole situation is just sad.
Having followed Z since his first full season in professional ball, from seeing him as a teenager standing shyly in a corner of a hotel conference room during a team ‘meet and greet’ of season tickets holders and media, through becoming a major leaguer, through good seasons and bad- I’m just sad if this is the way his career ends.
Head case? Sure. Baseball is full of them.
Talented? Sure. Baseball is full of talented players.
Failed to live up to someone else’s preconceived notion of his potential? Likely. Baseball is full of that too.
Not worth the money being paid to him? Come on folks. Get in line. Baseball is MORE than full of players like that. Don’t blame him for having a good agent and getting a great salary. No one put a gun to Jim Hendry’s head.
The saddest thing for me here is that he quit on his teammates, his manager, the organization and the fans. This isn’t retiring. This is quitting. There is a difference (at least to me).
Just sad.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
by Zeke on Aug 13, 2011 8:29 AM CDT reply actions 10 recs
PLEASE SOMEBODY GREEN THIS ..
zeke, as always, you nailed it. That is a lot of what’s boiling in my head right now. Meh. Enough, I got to get to work shopping for a new home right now.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
Good luck on the house hunting!
That can be a very stressful and emotional time.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
by Zeke on Aug 13, 2011 9:11 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
If he comes back
he should be suspended immediately for the rest of the year, put on the restricted list and then traded for anything you can get in the off season. He thinks he’s above the team and above the game, and that’s just crap.
If he was a true #1, the team may be willing to put up with his crap, but he isn’t. He’s just a diva and his time in Chicago needs to be finished. Enough is enough.
Zambrano Ascending, Unfinished
Z will be found.
Quade and Hendry will have a conference call with him in private.
A Cubs sports psychologist will become Z’s best friend again.
Z will step, fetch, cry and beg forgiveness from the team.
He will even speak to Chipper Jones and issue an apology.
He will lose one turn in rotation.
As Larry Norman once sang:
“We look to our leaders/They politely yawn/The press gives coverage/And the world turns on”
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
That is what I think will happen....
The league may suspend him however for throwing at Jones…
but the Cubs are an extremely weak organization so I expect nothing from them.
but shoot, hansman, 30 days off is still a slap on the wrist IMHO, and probably just what Z wanted...time off.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Right...
MLB should also come down hard on him when he comes back… if he does.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Zambrano...Let Him Retire
Can the Cubs organization really take him back after this? How would you explain this one to your fanbase? I really think Carlos needs to pack in, go home do more work on keeping his emotions in check.
BTW— I was looking at the Atlanta Journal Constitution online this morning. The Zambrano meltdown hardly garnered a paragraph or two. They focused on Uggla, Bobby Cox, and the sad news about the death of former Braves announcer Ernie Johnson, one of the greats.
I know this is embarrassing.
But I hope Z is good on his word. With another $18 million next year — not spent on a goofball who isn’t more than a No. 3 starter — the Cubs might have a shot at the Central. Plus, it might be easier to sell the Cubs to FAs if they don’t have to talk about Crazy Uncle Carlos.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Did anyone else notice Riggins as Z walked into the dugout
He stared straight ahead, frozen like he was scared of Z. Just another example of how this whole staff is in over their heads. They all have the deer in the headlights look. Too bad, it’s like Al has said many times. They should have hired some experience to go along with Q’s inexperience.
Riggins has been terrible.
Maybe the Cubs’ worst hire in the offseason.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
in watching the game it was clear this caught EVERYONE by surprise
The Cubs all were in shock on the bench. You can’t blame Riggins. Look at what he has to work with.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
I'm not blaming Riggins for this incident
I’m just saying the inmates are running the asylum
by LT on Aug 13, 2011 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe Z took himself out
because nobody else would. The goal is to win the game last time I checked and Z did not have it last night. Also as I have seen in other posts – You take one for the team when you have a winning record. Not when you are way way out of it all.
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
by truelinkfence on Aug 13, 2011 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions
THAT is true.
I kept watching and saying to myself “what the hey.” What was Quade’s warped rationale leaving Z in there to twist in the wind? Of course, what has been his screwy reasoning all season long?
Just as the Cubs were starting to look like we might make a reasonable stand at looking respectable .. this. Crap.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
I'm not judging Riggins based on last night alone.
Other than Shark’s improvement, there’s been nothing on the pitching staff resembling a step forward.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Russell? Garza?
They’re few and far between, but there are a few.
Garza?
What exactly are you crediting him with doing for Garza?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
He might have something on Russell, though.
But Garza’s been about what he was in 2010.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I was also thinking we knew that Russell was a pretty good LOOGY last year
and that the problem with Quade was all of the sudden he tried to turn him into a starter.
Going back to being a good LOOGY after that disaster can’t really be pinned on Riggins
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Not sure that wasn't Hendry trying to turn Russell into a starter...
we’ll never really know, and it won’t matter because both deserve to lose their jobs.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Either way, I'm not sure you can credit Riggins with the success Russell had once he went back to the pen
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't waste one second crediting Riggins with anything.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes and it really shows
from the outside looking in . When Larry R. left for NY they lost alot . How many times has Pena went to the mound to settle the pitcher down ?
I read that the other way
To me it looked like all of those in the dugout were deliberately ignoring him as they could see what an ass he had made of himself.
All I'm saying is this....
Haven’t you ever had a really crappy day at work? Maybe your boss was incompetent and your co-workers (outside of the new guys) weren’t really performing; the company is having a down year. Then you just come home one day and tell you family, “I quit!”
I’m sure it’s happened to more than one of us and how serious is anybody when they say it? Im getting just as sick of Z’s nonsense as everyone else, but I think sometimes everyone forgets that he is still a human being, and baseball is his job.
by BigCubbie on Aug 13, 2011 8:38 AM CDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
That might apply ...
if Zambrano didn’t have one or two of these EVERY SEASON.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Do you say it to your boss?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions
did he say it to his boss?
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
by truelinkfence on Aug 13, 2011 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure that Quade and Hendry are aware of this, yes.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Real question
Did this tidbit not come from a reporters question or was it a report of a discussion between Z and management?
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
by truelinkfence on Aug 13, 2011 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions
He said to friends that he was quitting
And in a job in the spotlight, that’s going to get back to his boss.
Plus, if you leave in the middle of a workday, that’s likely to get noticed in any job.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Right.
IMO, the comparison to Sandberg is not correct.
This is more comparable to Sammy Sosa walking out on the team during the last game in 2004.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
which is worse Al?
i can’t decide .. Z didn’t leave anything in his locker for Kerry to bash.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
Indeed.
I can only imagine what Wood thinks about this.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
"Why did I come back here?"
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
"Why didn't I accept that trade to Philadelphia?"
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Zambrano's is worse
At least Sammy waited until the last day of the season.
Also the CUBS made a bigger deal out of that than needed to be made. Zambrano went out of his way to make sure everyone knew about this.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions
By mentioning it...
to some clubhouse attendant? I’m sure Z thought “geez how can I turn this into a huge story… oh, I know! I’ll mention it in passing to a 19 year old clubhouse attendant!”
Come on.
It's not a double standard if you're actually willing to admit there are differences
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, attempting to get thrown out, then packing up his shit and yes...saying he was retiring.
Sammy quietly left the clubhouse.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
sometimes its better to leave than
say things you will regret. Oh wait seems he did both. :)
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
by truelinkfence on Aug 13, 2011 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions
This subthread started as a comparison to other jobs
As adults, most of us don’t get the option to call it a day at noon because things aren’t going well.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions
in the spirit of the thread
I understand your point
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
by truelinkfence on Aug 13, 2011 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Fair enough
I will say this — none of us know the whole story yet. But I think it gets worse before it gets better.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions
The bars are full
of unhappy employees getting hammered at noon.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
You've completely missed the point, but by all means, continue.
Chances are, those people face repercussions.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I've had PUHLENTY of crappy days at work
I have yet to actually throw a tantrum and start destroying the water cooler WHILE AT WORK.
Had he just gone home and told his family … after the game was over … this would be a much smaller story. Your analogy doesn’t really apply.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions
You clearly have no passion for your job
you need more fire
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
Yeah, lived it for over 25 years now
BS everywhere… but I love the technical challenge it brings me and I know our end products saves lives.
When the BS gets to me, I just go home and have a few beers.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
I had a job
I had a job I credit for taking some weight off me because everytime I was about to blow I’d go take a walk to let off steam taking one of my 15 minute breaks.
Took off 20 pounds in about a month.
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
by puckishcubsfan on Aug 13, 2011 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
CSB
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
California Shuttle Bus?
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Aug 13, 2011 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Story
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Cool and Bro
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know what everyone is so sad about
The real sad day will be if/when he comes back
"It's all in the game, yo"
by Worf on Aug 13, 2011 8:41 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Last night was embarrassing.
But we might have another $18 million to spend in the offseason. This could be great news.
It also might be more proof to the Ricketts that the Hendry/Quade regime is past its sell-by date. And, no, I don’t root for the Cubs to lose.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I'm kinda numb to it.
Particularly when it’s about Z. I really hope he sticks by this and walks away.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
See, this is why I'm sad. You're counting the millions before they're returned.
I have a bad feeling Zambrano will be back. It might not be until next year, but I’ve seen nothing from this club to believe they have the first clue how to handle it the correct way.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions
I just rewatched the bottom of the 5th, from both broadcasts
He got hammered in this game by Atlanta, but he didn’t immediately go after Chipper. The first pitch he threw was a low strike, and the 2nd pitch was inside, but I didn’t think it looked like he was going after him. The 3rd pitch looked like he threw at Chipper, but if he was trying to hit him, wouldn’t he have thrown a pitch Chipper couldn’t have gotten out of the way of? I’m not trying to defend Z, I’m as tired of his antics as the next guy, but shouldn’t warnings have at least been issued? Z got tossed after throwing 2 back to back inside pitches, after starting the at bat off with a strike. I thought he got the short end of the stick by the umpire, and clearly didn’t have any command of his sinker.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 13, 2011 8:42 AM CDT reply actions
Timmons definitely handled the situation well,
I just thought he was quick to eject Z.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 13, 2011 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions
he did
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
he definitely didn’t act upset about it.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 13, 2011 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions
that's what anger management Does For You
Take it out in more creative ways.
Like the opposing batter. Brilliant.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
From Z's previous blowups,
he could’ve done a LOT worse.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 13, 2011 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions
He had decided he was done for Quade who didnt have the balls to go out there.
I agreed with the ump….If he didnt go, the next pitch might have hit Jones in the face.
bullcrap .. are you blind?
Z melted down and tried to hit Chipper.
Anyone who has followed Zambrano for years knows how unglued he gets when he gets hit hard by a team.
NO ONE disputes this
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
I only thought 1 pitch was at Chipper
but Z’s reputation precedes him, and Timmons was clearly trying to diffuse the situation before anything got out of hand. I think most established MLB pitchers would’ve gotten a warning first, not an ejection.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 13, 2011 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Just found out about this.
I’m really surprised at the lack of emotion in my reaction. Not angry, not sad, definitely not surprised. I just don’t care. That’s really odd for me.
Fasten those seat belts...
Yep. It's been one of those years. It's hard to get worked about about anything with this team right now.
You stinks, Carlos Zambrano!
He walked.
Anyplace I have ever worked, if you walk, you quit.
I’ve never seen a contract that gives you an option to return once you quit. He ended his contract at that moment. Let him go.
Oh, I understand....
and that is a problem. If a player chooses to resign and the team accepts that should end it.
the players union will put some pressure on him to not do this.
by LT on Aug 13, 2011 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions
The players union
should be happy to be rid of him also.
Why?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions
No way they want to see him go.
They live to see average guys get paid like superstars. Zambrano is pretty much their dream player.
Exactly
I don’t know what txtom was thinking.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
As we've learned...
Michael Scott: [screaming into the office] I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!
Congrats to Hendry and Q on a GREAT SEASON!!!!!!!!!!
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
by SackMan on Aug 13, 2011 8:51 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I don't think I remember reading such a sad piece on this site.
It read kinda like a family member has passed away. But it’s a great one.
The Cubs are the worst-managed team in baseball. Did any of you expect any different? From Zambrano’s idiocy, passing through Quade’s deer-in-the-headlights reaction to Hendry’s scaredy-cat quote.
I feel bad for all of us who have wasted countless hours and a large amount of money on this fiasco. The joke is on us.
"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo
Why are people saying Z walked out on his team?
He pitched a bad game, got frustrated, and left the park. It’s not as if he was needed for the remainder of the game. I honestly don’t see what the big deal is here. He’s a hothead who likes to win and hates to lose. I’ll take more of that please.
Did we really put Jose Macias on the field? Really???
Um, he said he retired.
And he cleaned out his locker.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
He cleaned out his locker....
and then walked out on his team. That would indicate a plan not to return.
Does anybody seriously believe that?
He’s a hothead and a prima donna. Wouldn’t you like to see Ramirez play with a tenth of his passion? I would.
Did we really put Jose Macias on the field? Really???
That he cleaned the locker out? Yeah, I seriously believe that.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions
It's also been widely repeated from reporters.
"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd
by South Side Expat on Aug 13, 2011 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions
What's the alternative?
That this is a mass conspiracy concocted by the government?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I'm not saying I don't believe he did what's been reported
I’m saying that he was obviously just having a tantrum and has no intention of retiring from baseball.
Did we really put Jose Macias on the field? Really???
You're also asking why people are saying Z walked out on the team.
Dude, Z walked out on the team. Unless some details are being seriously misreported — which seems unlikely — Z WALKED OUT ON THE TEAM.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Disagree.
It’s not like he left in the middle of an inning and refused to pitch anymore. He was out of the game. His job for the night was done. He didn’t leave anybody in the lurch or hurt the team by leaving early. He had a temper tantrum. That’s all it seems like to me.
Did we really put Jose Macias on the field? Really???
Lots of pitchers get taken out of the game like that.
Name me someone else who cleaned out his locker and left before the game was over, saying he was “retiring”.
That’s a bit more than a tantrum.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I'm not saying it was appropriate behavior
or even close to normal. I’m just saying that to describe it as “walking out on the team” seems like a mischaracterization. There’s plenty to criticize about what he did. I just don’t think that particular criticism is valid.
Did we really put Jose Macias on the field? Really???
Whaaaaaa?
It’s the very definition of walking out on the team. He left (with all his stuff) the clubhouse during the game. No one does that. If they did this wouldn’t be a story.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Rick Sutcliffe on ESPN 1000 today
“when i had a bad outing, I changed my jersey in the locker room and sat on the bench the rest of the game suffering with the rest of my teammates.”
This guy is a disgrace to baseball, he’s selfish, me first guy. WHY DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT!
Sut also he said he needs to go for good now.
In essence, he DID walk out in the middle of an inning
Because it seems that he wanted to get thrown out.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
OK, forget for a moment the "retire" statement
I don’t care how bad you got hit as a pitcher or how bad you played poorly in the field or at the plate. A ballplayer SHALL never leave his TEAMMATES. Go cooloff in the clubhouse for 10 minutes or even take a shower, then get your ass back in the dugout or since he got tossed, STAY in the clubhouse. Take ownership & responsibility.
See my biggest problem with Z isn’t his cockiness its that he fails to realize what it really means to be a TEAMMATE.
Just win the next game...!
Remember when Prince Fielder went after Manny Parra in the dugout?
Something along the lines of, “we watched your $hit out there, you can watch us bat now”. This was after Parra had a bad inning and tried to go to the clubhouse, not leave the stadium.
Now I almost hope Zambrano returns and the Cubs sign Fielder….
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah haha.
Was that recently? I don’t remember it…
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Why did you capitalize "shall"?
Did we really put Jose Macias on the field? Really???
Buster Olney's suggestion about Z
Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
This is what I am doing if I am the Cubs today: nothing. No calling, no coaxing. If he doesn’t show up, suspend him.
I think Z is going to find out that the leash is a lot shorter when you are no longer very good.
He didn't show for the last few innings
Suspend him now.
Probably best the way Olney describes it
Just keep quiet. Otherwise they sound desperate. There’s protocol for every game with rostered, non-injured players. He doesn’t show, suspend him.
Now that’ll all but kill a waiver deal but what was the chance of that anyway, 5% ??
Just win the next game...!
I actually agree with Olney.
Let’s see what happens.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I said this last night
the Cubs will have to appear to not push Zambrano out, let him do whatever he decides to do and if he decides to come back then tell him his services are not welcome for the rest of the year.
This is definately not the time for Ricketts and Hendry to “grow some balls” and go out to the media with guns a-blazin like some were suggesting last night. I think Hendry’s quote last night was SPOT ON.
by hansman1982 on Aug 13, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I think he wants them to call him and tell him to come back, so he can hear how much they want him.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
With no punishment, so it must be OK if it happens again!
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
It won't matter...
…what the Cubs do, Zambrano is not going to leave the 18 mil on the table. The Cubs will likely get a call from Z’s agent today, explaining what was going through Z’s mind last night and he has no desire to retire. He may get a short suspension or have to go for a little refresher with his “anger management” people, but he will be willing and able to pitch again this year.
I don’t think it will turn out where the Cubs will get away without paying him the rest of this year, but they may be able to for a short while.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Allow me to add my voice to the chorus of sadness and outrage.
Well, mostly sadness. I’ve stuck by Z longer than many Cubs fans simply because I’ve really tried to stay focused on his value as a starting pitcher. But I, too, find myself hoping that this is the end of Carlos Zambrano. He’s now added yet another embarassing chapter to this humiliating novel of a season. Walking out on his team like this is, in some sense, worse than screaming at them in the dugout. Maybe it really would be best for everyone involved — him, the team, the fans — if he did retire.
And could he have picked a worse guy to throw at than Chipper Jones? The guy is like an elder statesman of baseball at this point. Imagine if he’d actually hit him and caused an injury. The whole situation is just sad and, well, to use a word Z himself used earlier this season, embarassing.
Baseball is pitching, hitting, baserunning and defense.
by daver on Aug 13, 2011 9:00 AM CDT reply actions 7 recs
I'll repeat what I said above: Wouldn't you like to see Ramirez play with Zambrano's fire?
Did we really put Jose Macias on the field? Really???
No. Ramiriz does not blame the team
when he has a bad game.
that would be sort of hilarious to see though
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions
He'd get tired- too much charging
GO HAWKS! Beat.........Tenn. Tech?
by tommy veryzer on Aug 13, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
No. It's not an either-or situation
It is possible to play with passion, fire, whatever meaningless word you want to throw at it, without consistently being disrespectful to teammates and the opposition.
I don’t question Carlos Zambrano’s desire to win. However, throwing tantrums does not equate desire. I don’t know why people think it does. Nor do I understand why people think it’s laudable.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions
So if Ramirez has a spectacularly bad game
You’d like it if he walked out on the team, cleared out his locker, and said he’s retiring? That’s “fire”? That’s what a good teammate does?
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
Save me from "fire"
This ain’t football. I like my starting pitchers like Maddux —cool as ice and 14 steps ahead of you
"It's all in the game, yo"
by Worf on Aug 13, 2011 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
Best damn pitcher in my lifetime
I don’t care what any other stat says. Fully rec’d.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions
14 steps ahead
very well said ITS YOUR DAY WORF!!
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
See, this is where we get in trouble...
… by equating anger or childish tantrums with “fire”.
You need to channel that into your performance. There was no one who played with more intensity than Ryne Sandberg. Yet you never thought of him as having “fire” — because he channeled every bit of that passion into playing.
That’s what Z needed to do. He failed.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
by Al Yellon on Aug 13, 2011 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Fair point
I’d like to see Zambrano not act like a child, but if he was winning consistently I’d care a lot less about his immaturity and so, I believe, would everyone else around here. Maddux had fire, he just channeled it as you suggest.
Did we really put Jose Macias on the field? Really???
If Z were winning more consistently ...
he wouldn’t be walking out on the team.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
If he had 20 wins at this point...
and did what he did last night, I’d still want him off the team. Nothing he did last night was excusable. I’d stop short of saying he should be banned, but if the Cubs don’t enforce serious repercussions upon Zambrano, MLB should step in and significantly suspend Zambrano and make sure everyone knows MLB players shouldn’t act like this.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure I would, but I would also like to see him play
with the maturity & class of a one Marlon Byrd and Carlos Pena.
Just win the next game...!
No, because Zambrano's out of control behavior is just as bad for performance as not trying
There is a middle path between “not caring” and “bat-shit psycho crazy.”
No, but I'd like to see him play with either Marlon Byrd or Reed Johnson's intensity.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 13, 2011 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll believe the retirement as soon as I see it
Soon as there’s a hint his contract may be altered in some way, he’ll be back.
Just win the next game...!
Once again, I agree completely
No WAY is he walking away from that money. And the Cubs, being the Cubs, will roll over for him like they ALWAYS do.
We’ll be treated to the usual Hendry/Quade boilerplate about how Z was just blowing off steam and things happen and blah…blah…blah…
I honestly can’t even get mad about it anymore. If the organization cares so little about things, then why should I?
by bluekoolaide on Aug 13, 2011 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions
really alkappy, I don't think TJ EVER hopes he's right when he makes those kind of comments,
it’s just that after these last 2 seasons, it wouldn’t surprise alot of us if those predictions came true….just sayin’ :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
In Alkappy's defense
TJ would have been CROWING if anything close to what he was predicted came to pass. In TJ’s defense it would have been 100% frustration powering that gloating, but he would have gloated.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions
well said :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Geez... we had a civil discussion lower
and now you’re defending me… weird couple of days for sure. lol
You got...
…that right.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Fire is a little like Hustle
I’ve said it many times. Ronnie Cedeno was running his ass off when he overran second base on a walk.
Hustle without intelligence is slapstick comedy.
Fire without intelligence is tragedy
"It's all in the game, yo"
by Worf on Aug 13, 2011 9:09 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
FINEST POST ON HUSTLE IN THE HISTORY OF THE INTERNETS
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
"He who is born in or raised in Mexico City and displays all the worst characteristics of it."
"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo
We're better than people from Jalisco tho.
But no. He’s a thug and is out to kidnap your children.
"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo
Rec'd.
Worf, you are “on fire” today. Well said.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Sosa left the last game of the year early
and I never forgave him. The bridge is burned up Z.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
by mrcubsfan on Aug 13, 2011 9:12 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I think this should finally be put to rest
the notion that Z had somehow “turned the corner” after his meltdown last year and anger management class. Just seemed too good to be true that 8-0 finish last year. It was. Only one year later, he did it again.
What an utter embarassment & shameful act he had to put on in representing the Chicago National League Ballclub.
Just win the next game...!
Hendry has it right, time to move on.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I'd like to see the Cubs be able to void his contract
Let the nutjob go and save the team $20M+. There’s other important things to deal with on this club than just one great big overgrown baby who can’t control himself.
Z should take a little lesson from Ryno’s HoF speech: “…because the name on front much more important than the name on the back”.
Just win the next game...!
if z
retires it’s his way off the team.he can always come back and sign with another team. this is the last straw for the cubs im sure. hopefully z follows through and lets the cubs off the hook so we can maybe go after cj wilson next year. plus i might be able to get a deeply discounted jersey. we shall see.as much as i like carlos its time to move on. is it worth all this for a 10 game winner.
Z walked out on a team that had just won 8 out of their last 10 games.
Which just shows you one thing. It is just about him. Something I was scared of realizing, but now I do. Everyone has the right for bad days, but no one, for any reason, has any rights to walk out on their team.
This is sad, it really is. I believe that Z is a great guy off the field, but the money is earned on your performance, and how you handle tough situations like these. Z blew both, but most importantly, he blew it not on just himself, but on the team too.
by braziliancubsfan on Aug 13, 2011 9:30 AM CDT reply actions
All I want is for the Cubs to find a way not to pay him 18 million next season.
Whether it’s through retirement or breach of contract, I would love another 18 million freed up to go after one or two solid players. That could get them another quality bat and arm on top of the Fielder and Wilson acquisitions that I hope they make.
Prehaps, Carlos should of been on "Undercover Boss"
This franchise is the laughing stock of Professional Baseball.
“I wounder how all the Ricketts Siblings feel today”
As a Ice Hockey fan, I am thrilled to have a “Gretzky” in the Cubs “ORGANIZATION” but Wayne and Janet probally wish thier son was drafted by any other team that had a “CLUE”
"If The Phone Doesn't Ring, It's Me"
"Miami Redhawk Hockey"
Another telling bit is that, after 12+ hours, I haven't seen a single quote defending Zambrano.
His career is quite possibly over for real.
"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo
I'm not so sure
Not defending Z here, but there’s still a lot of money on the line. I’m sure his agent is pressuring him and, quite possibly, the player’s union.
It would be great if he were to walk away, but I somehow think it’s going to be much more complicated than that.
by jerry morales rules on Aug 13, 2011 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Of course. But no other GM or player or talking head or newspaper has come out and said "well... I understand..."
I’m positive the Union will have something to say once he doesn’t show up today and the Cubs file paperwork.
"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo
Agreed
There is no understanding of what Z did.
by jerry morales rules on Aug 13, 2011 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
You would think that his agent would confirm or deny the speculation..
but my guess is that his agent, Barry Praver, is calling him begging him to change his mind.
'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'
Mr. Praver is on the line to lose over $2M.
I’d be on my knees begging to Zambrano too.
"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo
I think he can still charge him based on the total value of the contract he helped sign.
I’d be interested if that were the case. Zambrano already flushed any potential endorsements he could get.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
can somebody link me to a video of what happened?
in what is perhaps even more bizarre then Carlos’s meltdown, none of the video breakdowns of the game are showing what actually happened. Is this what our overly sensitive world has become? They can’t show highlights of a pitcher hitting a batter? It’s so weird. The ESPN highlights show everything but the actual breakdown.
maybe they took it down...
but it was all over the place last night…MLB.com CHicagocubs.com Espn.com
it's not there either. I've never seen anything like this before
they talk about it and yet they’re pretending that there is no actual video evidence of the event. anybody else?
Are you trying to make some kind of point...
but pointing out that he didn’t actually hit Chipper?
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Please, PLEASE let this "retirement"
be more than a threat.
I have no idea what really happened (I’m on vacation) but I pray that he is gone.
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
Z might be the smartest guy in the room.
He’ll come back and say it was just the heat of the moment, He’s sorry. He loves Chicago and doesn’t want to retire. The organization is in a box. They can’t(won’t) bring him back because of the “heat” they’ll get from the fans and the media. Not to mention, he can’t come back into that locker room if the Cub organization expects the respect of any of the other players.
So Z wins. The money at least. It will be just another 18 million Hendry and the Cubs will have to eat. I hope I’m wrong and Z does the honorable thing. If he really loves the Cubs, like he says, he will.
At least next season isn't looking like a NL Central contender...
so it won’t be that bad to waste to just eat his $18m… or suffer through whatever inconsistencies he has left to give us.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Very sad news and just a terrible night for Z and cub fans.
I was wondering if anyone who saw the game can explain if the catcher, or a manager/coach ever went out to the mound to talk with Z after any of the home runs he gave up?
No way was Quade going out there, especially with a loose cannon like Zambrano
When you can’t handle a guy like Ryan Dempster, you’re sure not going to try to settle down a head case with the tv cameras on.
by bluekoolaide on Aug 13, 2011 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
They went out to talk to him immediately before he started throwing at Chipper.
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Aug 13, 2011 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, me too LOL!
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Yup, should have never gone out to dinner at Galati's last night
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I believe he's been thinking this for quite some time, and then it mixed with a horrid start, and he decided to do it.
Remember in 09 when he said he wanted to retire soon because he wanted to spend more time with his Mom?
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 9:51 AM CDT reply actions
I think Z is a baby and hope he does "retire"
Another issue is and had been touched on by some posters here…
Quade said it himself, Z didnt have it last night….WELL NO CRAP!!!!! we could all see that.
So why was he still pitching in the first place? I understand its only the 5th inning and you want to sve the bullpen, but isnt that why Ortiz is here? Let him pitch for several innings…as it is he pitched the predicted 2/3 of an inning.
A real manager would know that they are dealing with a giant baby on the mound and could see this coming. Was Quade and Riggins playing cards in the dugout or something? They just stood around the whole time during the fiasco.
and it is telling that nobody came out of the dugout. I just wonder if its because the other players just didnt back Z? They are tired of his selfish antics?
I think its why the Braves didnt retaliate, they saw it was Z acting alone.
The whole situation from Z’s antics to the coaches response is so laughable.
And now we wait for the team to do something……i am sure they will handle it well.
Note to Jim Hendry
Please respect the fan’s wishes and you retire as well
"If The Phone Doesn't Ring, It's Me"
"Miami Redhawk Hockey"
by parrotinct on Aug 13, 2011 9:57 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Riggins
What pitcher on this team do you think has listen to a word he has said, if he said anything at all
"If The Phone Doesn't Ring, It's Me"
"Miami Redhawk Hockey"
Shark?
Though I still think that’s more the team using him in the right situations more often than in the past.
This is a kid who was lights out in his first cup of coffee here.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
He has been invaluable in making sure the bubble gum and sunflower seed...
…buckets are always full. The man is irreplaceable.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Aug 13, 2011 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Hendry still has a lot to answer for
But I’d say he acquitted himself pretty nicely last night, immediately saying the Cubs would take Z up on his offer. That was the best possible response, timing and all.
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
by Brett Taylor on Aug 13, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Riggins is basically a non-entity
My money is on him getting scapegoated this off season as a pathetic way to try to appease an angry fan base whil ethe real culprits all come back.
by bluekoolaide on Aug 13, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
DeJesus is terrible, half the time he isn't even in position to give himself the...
ability to send or hold a runner.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Aug 13, 2011 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
The average Cub fan
prolly cannot name who the pitching coach is. You are right – if it is to appease the fans it will be weak and pathetic
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
It was the best response...
…but it didn’t exactly take a lot of thought to come up with.
Clearly, the Cub’s would love to have him retire to be out from under his dough.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
It would seem then
if no one came to talk to him on the mound while he is having a rough outing it would show a lack of support. I would think any manager would understand how to handle all different types of players, and Z is the type that needs a manager to go out and calm him down, and remind him that the team is behind him even if he is pitching poorly. Now not all pitchers need this, and as Sutcliffe said last night, Z can not handle being a number one pitcher, but it sort of seems to me that this a person the cubs fully understand as far as how emotionally on edge he can be so the manager/coach should have a plan/idea how to handle him. But it sounds like they did a poor job, and let a bad situation become worse. Not removing the blame from Z, but this the results of a new coaching staff.
Z is a guy that checked out a couple of years ago.
If you recall the White Sox series earlier this year, he got hit around pretty hard in the first inning and then came out for the 2nd throwing bullets. Most of his fastballs following the 2nd were 93 – 96 mph, many of us were asking where that had been, he looked like the Z of old.
Some of us like to talk about “how badly Z wants to win” or “he’s the most competitive guy on the field” I haven’t thought that for a long time and after seeing that game earlier this season , I became convinced that Z is a guy that is only about him and last night confirmed it.
Z once brought up a conversation that he had with Maddux about changing speeds and not having to throw as hard to get guys out, I’m afraid all Z took from that conversation is how he can half ass it on the mound and continue to get paid.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
This
Million dollar arm and a five cent head.
by bluekoolaide on Aug 13, 2011 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
...and a little less valuable arm these days too.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll defend Z.
This whole episode shouldn’t surprise anyone by now. And its probably getting way more attention than necessary. He’s a simply a highly emotional guy. I’m sure he slept on it and everything will be fine today.
The whole bit about “walking out on his teammates” is bit overly-dramatic. I swear Cubs fans think they are watching a episode of “Glee” or something. Just chill out.
In no way shape or form should any kind of punishment be held toward Z. He is who he is. Accept him for what he is, and don’t get yourself all bent out of shape, or even saddened, when he’s gets a little emotional. Its just par for the course with him. Deal with it.
I’m grateful for Carlos Zambrano. I hope he stays with the team for life. He can be just as emotional as he wants to be.
by Neifi Puppy on Aug 13, 2011 10:11 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Sadly, I think this is the way that the Cubs will try to spin it...
…when he inevitably comes back.
by bluekoolaide on Aug 13, 2011 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions
You're grateful for Zambrano? What exactly does he do for you? Does he pickup your...
…garbage? Does he heal your ailments? Does he put food on your table? Did he rescue your cat in a tree? I’m confused here.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Aug 13, 2011 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Part of the reason we still see this kind of crap like last night
No accountability.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Aug 13, 2011 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like watching him pitch. He's fun to watch.
He usually pitches fairly quickly, and he’s a phenomenal hitter for a pitcher. What’s not to love about him? So yes, I’m grateful that when I watch him play he makes me happy…usually.
He’s not going to change, people. Quit wishing he’s something he’s not. Further his presence isn’t going to bring the moral character of the team down. Heck, if anything its usually the opposite with him.
by Neifi Puppy on Aug 13, 2011 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Nobody is wishing he's something he's not
They are wishing the team would hold him accountable for his actions, and wishing he was no longer a member of the team.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
He can be fun to watch, true.
But this behavior, over and over and over, cannot be allowed to stand on a baseball team.
No other team would have given him this much rope. It’s time to cut the curd.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
curd=cord
That was unintentional. Really.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I thought maybe you were a cheesemaker.
Fasten those seat belts...
by katie casey on Aug 13, 2011 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't get me started.
I’m not in the mooood.
Fasten those seat belts...
by katie casey on Aug 13, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
This seems like
a secondairy discussion.
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
by Brett Taylor on Aug 13, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe Z is simply lost
and needs someone to show him the whey.
I ruminated on this for a bit.
I think, though, the cream of this has already been skimmed, so it’s time to put the subthread out to pasture.
We could be developing
quite the cottage industry.
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
by Brett Taylor on Aug 13, 2011 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
fried cheese curds are fantastic.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Aug 13, 2011 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
yes.
yes they are
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
I watched Dennis Rodman's Hall of Fame speech
earlier this morning. The two have a lot in common. Both greats talents with something not quite right between the ears.
eh. I just chalk it up to a unique once in a lifetime situation. If you have Z, you get the whole package. He get to watch him pitch a few complete games here and there, watch him hit a few home runs, and deal with the yearly episode of weirdness during the dog days of summer. So be it.
Let him stay.
by Neifi Puppy on Aug 13, 2011 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
You know the difference between Rodman and Zambrano?
Rodman is a hall of fame talent in his field.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
They have nothing in common
Rodman was a winner, one of the best rebounders and defensive players of his generation…oh and did I mention he was a winner, every team he played for he made better. The two couldn’t be any more different.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Aug 13, 2011 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Z has 125 Wins to 81 loses.
His lifetime ERA is 3.6 and WHIP is 1.32 His xFIP is 4.12
He’s no Roy Halladay….but he is most certainly an above league-average pitcher. Yeah, he’s a bit over-paid, but who cares? He is most certainly a winner. Most teams would be grateful to have him.
But true, he’s not a Hall of Fame talent, or even close to it.
by Neifi Puppy on Aug 13, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
If he doesn't retire and pitches another 7 or so years, I could see him reaching 200 wins.
Which could be enough in this day and age. I don’t think anyone will ever touch 300 again.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
If Sabathia stays healthy and with the Yanks
He’ll get close.
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
by Brett Taylor on Aug 13, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think so
He’s 30, let’s say he gets 5 more wins this year to get to 178. If he plays 7 more years, he’d need to average more than 17 wins a year.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Again
If he’s healthy and stays with the Yanks, he could pitch 8 more years and get close to 300. It’s not a stretch with those caveats.
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
by Brett Taylor on Aug 13, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
did he retire?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
The Lakers would like to disagree with you
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie
Objection! Assumes facts not in evidence
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Well he was already 38 years old by that time right?
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Aug 13, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep...agreed. Rodman was a winner.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Aug 13, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
One other difference...
…Rodman played on teams with leadership from coaches and teamates that could keep him in relative check.
Z has not had the same luxury.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
When Z gets his 5th World Championship
… We can start the discussions about their similarities on the field
I agree.
Zambrano is one of the best Cubs pitchers of all time. As much as he didn’t live up to the expectations he set in his mid-20’s, he’s still an incredible athlete, dynamic and fun to watch on both sides of the ball.
What’s ironic here is that Zambrano has essentially sent a message saying 2 things: he’s fed up with this awful team, and he’s fed up with his own disappointing play. I’d think that would be a message people could get behind, but as is typical with Z haters will hate.
I don’t see how Zambrano comes back to the team after this, but I hope he does. It would be a sad end to an era in which he’s provided so much entertainment. And honestly, I find the whole reaction more than a bit sanctimonious – this season has been an unwatchable, dull mess, and this is the first thing worth talking about in weeks. I don’t advocate the way Z went out, but I also get it.
We fans cannot accept this continued behavior...
it’s embarrassing to us as fans and disrespectful to the team and organization as a whole.
The Cubs need to suspend him w/o pay and seriously consider voiding his contract for “conduct detrimental to the team”.
I love big “Z”, but enough is enough!
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Aug 13, 2011 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
What time do players usually arrive for night games?
I suspect we’ll be hearing something by the afternoon.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 10:12 AM CDT reply actions
Tonight's game is at 7:10 Eastern time
So figure about 4 hours before that.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
could hear something well before
or not even until 1st pitch.
1. The Cubs must keep their yaps shut on this. Don’t talk through the media. (e.g. Sosa 2004, how dumb did they look trying to make an ass of Sosa then try to trade him. HELLO ?! )
2. What is the time limit for a player to show up? Sure they start getting there 4-5 hr before 1st pitch, but what’s the deadline?
3. Hendry and Z’s agent are already talking, or will be soon. They have to be.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Wouldn't the time to show up be a little different if your a starting pitcher NOT pitching that day.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
No. The TEAM reports to the park by a certain time of day
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Honestly I do not know
Perhaps starters have to show up sooner. Al ???
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm honestly not sure.
I do know that many players arrive 4-5 hours before game time. Not sure exactly what the schedule is. Every team probably has a different one.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Most starters....
…will show up 3-6 hours before the game, depending on whether they may be getting treatment for an injury, or may be looking at video when they are working on part of their game. Most also grab a bite to eat on the pre-game spread in the clubhouse.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
What an embarrassement for the entire Cub's organization and fans
I have been a Zambrano supporter throughout the years but last night was just shameful, selfish, and class-less.
Zambrano didn’t have his stuff, so he throws at a future Hall of Famer that already has bad knees and is one injury away from his career being over on a team that is in the thick of the playoff race.
by bazfan1234 on Aug 13, 2011 10:14 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Dude you should have absolutely zero shame for what went on.
"Prince Fielder is too fat even for the Oakland A’s" - Billy Beane
It does make it harder to explain how you can be a fan of this damn team.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Aug 13, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Exactly
You have a team that is honoring their retired, beloved coach that night and you first, hit their hottest player (Uggla) for homering in the first at-bat, then you try to hit their future hall of fame 3rd baseman. Chipper Jones is to the Braves as Ron Santo is to the Cubs organization. It was completely classless.
Throwing twice (because the first pitch wasn't close enough) at what imo is a...
…first ballot hall of famer. I wish the Braves bench would have lit Z up.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Aug 13, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I mean seriously...
first Bradley, now Zambrano…can you name another team that has had 2 major blow-ups like this in the past 5 years? Someone has to be held accountable…
I think this is actually the 5th major blow up in the last 5 years.
Z-Barrett, Z-Lee, Z-fans “I though these were the best fans in baseball, but they showed me today they only care about themselves”, Z – Mark Carlson and the gatorade dispenser, Z – Chipper, and Bradley.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Aug 13, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
I still have a little shame
because I do still Bleed Cubbie Blue.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
I hope Zambrano is gone.
He’s 30 years old now, and he still hasn’t changed. He’s not a number one or two starter, and he’s barely a number three nowadays. If he does retire, it saves the Cubs a boatload of money, and also — it allows the Cubs to go after another starter in FA or trade.
Good riddance.
'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'
by Unique on Aug 13, 2011 10:14 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
With a heavy heart
I’d echo these sentiments. Thanks for the thrills Z…adios. It was a poor 91+mil contract.
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
so were all the other contracts. Thanks Jumbo.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Aug 13, 2011 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Well now, off I go to enjoy
this gorgeous day!!! Bye all. ( hopes this random child-like behavior is a memory by game time)
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
Sorry to break your spirits, but that's doubtful...
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Wow, some truly racist crap being spewed on Cubs.com article about it.
I’m no fan of Zambrano but "go back to bananaville and milk cows:?
Hooray for blatant stupidity
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
Yeah I really shouldn't have gone over there.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, we aren't exactly a happy family at the moment either.
But thank god we don’t have to deal with any of THAT. That’s just idiotic.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
one guy said he wished Zambrano would get trapped under a rock and have him die a slow painful death
We’re not a happy family, we’re also not borderline pyschotic
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Wow, yeah, that's bad.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe it was SG
since he can not post here anymore.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd bet he's reading this thread because he knows we're talking about him.
Especially after the whole twitter thing.
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
The mentality of people scares the crap out of me.
I would never think that let alone write it.
Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the ground each morning the devil says, "OH CRAP, SHE'S UP"!
I don't think he is going anywhere
Is he really going to walk away from 20 million? Honestly the Cubs have very little leverage here. He did not leave during a game, he has not as of yet failed to report for a game. As of now they could neither fine nor suspend him, though MLB might fine him for throwing at Chipper. They can release him at eat 20 million and he would be grabbed up by a team so fast your heads would spin.
Remember when Bradley got suspended he got paid AND agreed to the suspension.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2011 10:43 AM CDT reply actions
Yes...he did leave during a game.
I’m not sure why you think he didn’t considering it has been reported over and over and over that he did
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
He was out of the game
Maybe you could get the Union to agree to a small fine , but I doubt you would get that.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think that matters
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Aug 13, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
No it really doesn't
His teammates reactions to this should be a clue to Doggie. I’m not sure why it isn’t
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
This is a contract issue
How his fellow players feel about him is irrelevant.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
HE. BROKE. TEAM. RULES.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
He broke team rules. You don't have to get the union to agree to anything.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Until they try to void his contract
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
thanks again
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Most rules violations result in a fine at most
For instance good luck suspending a player for missing a practice or being late.
Suspending a player requires a very specific set of circumstances. The Cubs were only able to suspend Bradley because they paid him and he agreed.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2011 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Sigh. I'm done. You just don't get it.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
I would go farther...
…than that and maybe even offer him 5mil towards next years salary if that is required for him to retire.
At the end of the day, I don’t think he is going to retire.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I'm glad Castro seemed to find a little power this year.
He went the entire year with 3 HR and in the past few weeks got it up to 7. That’s a good sign for net year. If I am taking anything good away from this year it’s Castro’s play. I’ll look forward to watching him in the future.
#10 You will be missed.
by Bricks and Ivy on Aug 13, 2011 10:49 AM CDT reply actions
The power would be more effective...
if he doesn’t turn into the next Soriano and can only do it while “leading off”. Solo homers… whippee!
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
The Cubs could suspend him
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
reply fail
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Aug 13, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
How do you figure? Why would they suspend him last year and not this year?
#10 You will be missed.
by Bricks and Ivy on Aug 13, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
STARLIN!
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Wasn't it Hendry who suspended him last year?
#10 You will be missed.
by Bricks and Ivy on Aug 13, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
You could actually make the argument Zambrano did more last year to warrant the suspension
I don’t agree with it, but I could see the Cubs worming out of this situation as “a big misunderstanding”
It’s not like Zambrano has gone to the media and raged about anything
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Hard to do that after Quade's comments yesterday.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Quade has said a lot of dumb crap that proved out not to hold water for more than 12 hours
He could backtrack with “I was told something that wasn’t true and I overreacted”
The guy’s an idiot, certain people would believe it.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
True...
and what he said was true regardless of what they claim happened with Zambrano. Might have been the most true thing he ever said, unfortunately.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Yup
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Is it safe to assume that because Z walked, Ricketts no longer has to pay him a dime?
"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL
by HotDogDude on Aug 13, 2011 10:51 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
No, the resignation would have to be in writing or the Cubs would have to file on the chances..
that Z didn’t come back to the team.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Aug 13, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Their lawyers need to have him sign on the line which is dotted, today!
"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL
by HotDogDude on Aug 13, 2011 10:54 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, then the MLBPA, the MLB offices
yadda, yadda, yadda.
I still think he’ll be back once there’s even a hint he won’t get his money.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
thanks for confirming
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
He's got all the money he or his grandchildren will ever need.
It’s not about the bucks. Maybe he realizes his arm isn’t what it used to be, and baseball isn’t fun any more.
by Clark Addison on Aug 13, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Only if he does not show up today.
That would be grounds for suspension.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
I find it interesting that you don't seem to be following the story very well, but think you know what will happen
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
????
I am following the story just fine. Walking out early from a game you are no longer playing in, even in dramatic fashion is not grounds for suspension because if it were a whole lot of players would have been suspended for this in the past.
You can be suspended WITHOUT pay for refusing to show up or not following instructions.
The Cubs can try to suspend with or without pay but if he shows up today they will lose under the contract.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2011 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
His manager and his teammates are all saying he walked out when he wasn't supposed to
I don’t know what you’re missing about this
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
I am not missing anything
Plenty of players have walked out without permission after being removed from a game. It is not grounds for suspension. Failing to show up today would be.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2011 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Can you name one? Can you name one where the manager and players called them out as "leaving the team"
Can you name one where this happened and they weren’t suspended?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Again by contract it does not matter what a manager or players said
what matters is the terms of the contract and you can bet the farm that leaving early after being removed from a game and cleaning out your locker do not fit in the description of things you can be suspended (without pay) for.
Choking your GM, criminally assaulting your girl friend’s father in players area of a stadium will get you a suspension though if you fight it you might just get a revised contract.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
So no then? You can't name one?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
That doesn't mean...
…they don’t have to pay him if he shows up today.
This can try to suspend him and they will probably be able to for a short period of time, but the players union will fight any long term suspension or attemp to void his contract tooth and nail, and they will win.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Oh I'm sure they'll fight a LONG TERM suspension
But I think the team could suspend him for last night for a bit without needing the union’s permission
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
For the rest of the season, maybe?
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 13, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
They can certainly try and like Bradley
he might agree if also like Bradley he gets paid. If they try to suspend him and he fights it, it would probably be a matter of days before MLB ordered him reinstated and paid in full. They are free to release him of course but still on the hook for 20 million plus
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2011 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
You don't need the union's...
…permission to try and suspend someone, but they will be involved to determine whether the suspension holds up.
I agree, they can probably suspend him for a week or two, but thats about it, especially if he apologizes and shows up.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Well he will get paid during the suspension
but sure they can tell him not to show up and he can either sit home and collect the money or fight it but he gets paid.
Also unless he is agreeing to the suspension I don’ t think the Cubs can remove him from the roster so they will be playing with 24 guys as well.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2011 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Although most of the fault lies with Zambrano,
Quade is a part of the problem. He doesn’t lead, he tries to be everybody’s buddy. He’s got to go, and sooner is better. The inmates are running the asylum.
I agree Quade needs to go but this isn't his fault.
Z is a head case. It wasn’t Pinella’s fault last year so it can’t be Quade’s this year.
#10 You will be missed.
by Bricks and Ivy on Aug 13, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Quade...
…is a horrible leader and his treatment of certain players differently is a good indicator how far he is over his head.
With Z, I blame leadership above the manager more, because Z has been pampered for years.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
And we forgot to mention
Soriano posing for his double that he thought was a home run when the Cub’s were getting blown out.
That happens so often we just overlook it now.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
True...
but come on, the Braves had to think it was a joke. You are getting blown out and you “pose” for a home run that is a double?
The Braves had to be wondering if they had flashed back to spring training and were playing against one of their minor league teams
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
They have a classy organization...even their minor league teams run the ball out.
Though maybe they saw our coaching staff and thought they were playing an A ball team..
so you could be right
...or the Bad News Bears.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
He was putting the deke on Prado in LF, it worked!
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Aug 13, 2011 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions
That is what happens all the time....Quade is fine with it....
Campana should have been running for him….Since it was Bobby Cox night, they could have replaced Soriano there as a tribute to a real manager.
Smoltz...
…is on with Bruce Levine right now and he just through the Cub’s organization under the bus by comparing how stuff like this never would have happened with the Braves, because of how the organization was run.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Outstanding!
Way to go Smoltz…!
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Sadly, Smoltz is right
Hendry has to go and soon. The culture has to change.
I will say this, though, I do appreciate the change in culture that Hendry brought in originally. It’s no longer “The Loveable Losers”. This culture of no accountability has gone on too long though.
by jerry morales rules on Aug 13, 2011 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
That was changed...
…more by Dusty Baker, than it was by Hendry.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Perhaps
But it was done under Hendry’s watch.
by jerry morales rules on Aug 13, 2011 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Thats right...
…Hendry “watched”.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Regardless
Hendry has to go. He has to. There are some tough decisions to be made and with all the money coming off the books this year (And maybe even another $19M!!!), the restructuring of the team needs to be done by a fresh individual.
by jerry morales rules on Aug 13, 2011 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
You betcha!!!
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
And the front office
THAT is ultimately where the responsibility lies.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
His twitter feed reads like something out of Confederacy of Dunces
by Outshined_One on Aug 13, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
he dressed as an EWOK at Comic Con
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
We please get some leadership from Mike McCaskey JR?
get on a plane this morning and get control of this situation by announcing that Zambrano will never pitch again for the Cubs. Period. This guy has been a pathetic and totally leaderless owner these last two years. If he’s incapable of making any changes, he needs to put the team up for sale now.
That would be nice, but it will not happen...
Much more likely is the announcement that Quade and Hendry will be retained for next year.
It is coming, bank on it.
You may be right...
…Ricketts reminds me of watching a hitter who freezes on a two strike pitch and takes a third strike because he was fooled by the pitch. I think Ricketts was fooled by just what was actually required to get this organization going in the right direction from day one and he has already taken a couple third strikes. If he takes another one this offseason, it may be lights out for several more years.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Changing the culture
It’s not apparent that changing the culture is going to take more than ousting Hendry, Quade, and anyone else on the coaching staff. If Z pulled this garbage last night, then this had to have been building for awhile, and Z’s comment from awhile ago about this being a AAA team reflects this. It’s like a bunch of tremors and earthquakes before the volcano explodes, except in this case, that volcano is the Yellowstone caldera.
From what I know, and really, anyone who works on a team knows, is that negativity breeds negativity. If this was building up in Z for the last few months or more, or last couple years, then you can be certain others have been roped into behaving similarly. Maybe that’s what Pena’s comment referred to. Shockingly enough, I almost agree with NBF that you can’t blow this team up, but now more than ever there needs to at least be an incredibly deep restructuring to eliminate each and every bit of the cancer that’s plaguing this team.
Someone from above said we are talented, and I believe that. There are a lot of talented players on this team that I bet would flourish elsewhere, but because of the issues I referenced above, they’re all held down. We always obsess over why the Yankees, Red Sox, and other teams consistently win. One thing we hardly talk about is that those guys, along with a number of other factors, believe they are winners. Who on this team is going to think they’re a winner when they’re surrounded by personalities like Z who explode with negatitivy, with personalities like Ramirez who just appear to not even give a shit, and with personalities like Mike Quade who is essentially the Michael Scott of this team and he just doesn’t get it.
Can you get rid of everything that’s dragging this team down? No, but if Ricketts, or someone, can at least remove 25% of the problem, I would imagine you’ll see a very good return on that effort.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 11:10 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
ARGH
It’s NOW apparent, not “it’s not apparent”
FML
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed. Also
Notre Dame sucks
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
YOU SHUT UP
10-2 this season
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Dude.
South Florida – Win
at Michigan -Loss
Michigan State – Loss
at Pittsburgh – Loss
at Purdue – Win
Air Force – Loss
USC – Loss
Navy – Win
at Wake Forest – Win
Maryland – Win
Boston College – Win
at Stanford – Epic Fail
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
I have them losing to Michigan or Michigan State
and Stanford. USC is a win as they’re worse off than they were last year while ND has improved, Air Force is beatable, as is Pitt. Navy is the only other team that I think could beat ND, and that’s only because they can’t seem to figure out how to stop Navy’s wishbone offense.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
You're silly.
They’re losing to both Michigans, though they might beat USC. I’ll give you 8 wins max. No way they win 10
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
What makes you so certain though?
They lost to both teams last year by the smallest of margins, not to mention that State beat them on a trick play. I never have enough confidence in ND to beat both in one season, but them losing to both of them again is unlikely, especially given how much the offense and defense improved down the stretch last season, they’ll be more settled in to Coach Kelly’s offense and defense, Teo is primed to have a huge year, Floyd returns, Jones has more experience, and Michigan is under another new head coach. Their biggest weapon is Shoelace, who is always one big hit away from being knocked out of the game.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
John Smoltz, Cal Ripken and Rick Sutcliffe on ESPN 1000 today
not only three of the best players of all time, but three of the best guys of all time. Both just said Zambrano needs to be done with the Cubs right now.
All three were angry at what happened. Very.
Smoltz just said fish rots from the head down
not mentioning Hendry and Quade, but inferring it.
Said never would this happy under Cox. It would under teams like the Cubs and Florida.
Which is exactly why the front office needs changes too, not just Hendry
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Smoltz hammering Soriano right now
for not hustling last night, great interview right now. Said he wouldn’t last a second iin Atlanta.
Of course he wouldn't...
I saw that and couldn’t believe it….posing for a ball when you are getting blown out.
This is awesome....Smoltz was a winning ballplayer.
Lazy loser players where quickly removed from Atlanta
I hope Ricketts hears this
It’s like that Geico plane the other night. It’d be cool to fly a plane over the ballpark with these comments on days we know Ricketts is out schmoozing with the fans in the stands.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
what happened with the Geico plane?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Flying over Wrigley during the Santo statue dedication Wed evening
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't get it, was it not supposed to?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Rather tacky when you know there's going to be a few speeches
whereas unlike a game when it’d be less a distraction.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Did the Geico plane have any idea on what was going on, on the ground?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
the Geico plane cares not for your petty ceremonies
DON’T YOU WANT TO SAVE MONEY ON YOUR CAR INSURANCE?
Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08 Coffee Table Debut: 7/17/08
by Fukudometer on Aug 13, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Better not be or we're F---ed
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Never too late
for this season, yes. Next season, perhaps not.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd put a $50 to rent that plane on our behalf.
Let’s do it.
"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo
I'll fly it!
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Gillick Prez, Smoltz GM
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Smoltz is a lot like MAd Duck. I always thought he’d be interesting in a front office job. Maybe Maddux can lure him if he’s interested.
I would love to see the BRaves former PResident John Schuerholz hired if we can’t get Gillick.
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
by puckishcubsfan on Aug 13, 2011 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Are you sending secret messages? What's up with the random capital letters?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
The extra caps spell ARR.
Maybe he’s a pirate?
by jerry morales rules on Aug 13, 2011 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Wow Mad DUCK???
Kind of funny
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2011 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Ortiz had just gotten up...
Ortiz should have started the inning….Quade himself said that Z didnt have it
I'm curious about this as well
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
not reallly, it was understood that Zambrano needed to suck it up
and take one for the team,. the game was lost so they were trying to save the bullpen. That’s what infuriated me, the selfish act to get yourself ejected and not eat up the pitches to save the pen.
He also could have been hurting.
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
by puckishcubsfan on Aug 13, 2011 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
no, there were no injury issues
he quit on the team, period. It was awful, check the game thread to see how mad we were when it happened.
what? Emotionally?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
No, he's just a wus and a selfish one at that
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Butt hurt?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
That's what I mentioned in the game thread
I don’t think anyone was up or maybe Ortiz had just gotten up. Quade has some blame in this, only in that he knows Z is a hothead. It’s not his fault that Z did what he did.
Ortiz was up and they had just made a mound visit.
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Aug 13, 2011 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions
This is just sad
This is just sad. Anyone who sees this any different is crazier than Zambrano.
The only defense at all and it’s not really one is that in anger management you’re told to walk away from the situation and pull yourself together. Of course he could have told his manager he was leaving and I think that would be understandable. I used to work near Wrigley and walked past the players parking lot on my way home. Saw players leave early a couple of times and probably with permission from the manager.
Weird thing is yesterday I was just remarking that Zambrano hadn’t had an incident since he went into treatment.
I think he does have a mental issue and it’s really nasty some of the things people say about it. Mental illness is not something to make fun of someone for but nasty people do.
If he is in treatment sometimes the medications and such work and then something blows. It takes a while to find the right combination. For about a year it seemed to be working.
This is from someone who has a very close friend who is in treatment for similar issues to Zambrano. He has it controlled and it’s been about 4 years since it started but he does have some problems still. Talked to him just a little while ago about this. He’s not a sports fan and not a Cubs fan so he’s looking at the situation from a completely unbiased perspectivel.
Problem with mental issues is it’s hard to admit, hard to diagnose and hard to find the right treatment.
If Zambrano broke his leg we’d hear “Zambrano broke his leg, he’s out 6 weeks” its easy to see the injury on an xray do the treatment and see when it’s healed and we see him in 6 weeks.
HEck players can be hurt and people will still question whether they should play. LOok at the single digit iqed yahoos and Jay Cutler last January.
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
by puckishcubsfan on Aug 13, 2011 11:20 AM CDT reply actions
Anyone who prefaces an argument
with an inflammatory statement about those who disagree with their premise has the unfortunate effect of losing my interest in anything else they might have to say. I am certain that I am not alone in this. And you are rumored to be someone who is a “writer”?
"I lof to hit de home ron!"
Rumor might be the operative term there
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
You forgot to repeat "Anyone who prefaces an argument"
In the first line of your post.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I've never
I’ve never understood why she does that. She can see that she’s repeating herself…right?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
It doesn't look like it.
It doesn’t look like it. Or you think she’d have noticed it by now.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
You're probably right
You’re probably right. It’s odd…
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
It really is.
It really is.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
She doesn't notice
She doesn’t notice that she keeps repeating the same sentiment, so I doubt she notices that. Anyone would be a bad person to point it out, but she often counters arguments that no one is making.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Michelle Beisner
Michelle Beisner is hot. It’s not relative to anything, but I’m watching the NFL network right now.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I can't disagree
I can’t disagree, and it might be the best thing we see in this thread!
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I think she does it for attention.
I think she does it for attention and we give it to her.
Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the ground each morning the devil says, "OH CRAP, SHE'S UP"!
you're probably right
you’re probably right, but this is sort of fun.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions
You are right.
You are right it is fun.
Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the ground each morning the devil says, "OH CRAP, SHE'S UP"!
I think you are
I think you are giving her too much credit.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I really have a problem with it
I really have a problem with it….it throws the flow of my reading off for some reason.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions
She stops for a while
She stops for a while when someone points it out. Then she just stops using titles altogether.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I wonder
I wonder if she breaks into a cold sweat when that happens
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Only to start again
Only to start again a short while later.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
just trying to do it myself was a pain in the ass
a pain in the ass …. notice I repeated the fun part :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Ha!
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions
You get used to it
You get used to it. Or so I’m told
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Nestea wants me to put on a bikini
and go swimming
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
No one wants that Hammer. No one.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Please for the love all that is holy...
don’t look at the Head and Shoulders Twitter ad.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I shouldn't have laughed, but I did.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 13, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Question
What would the Cubs want for Big Z and how much of his contract would they be willing to eat?
He is owed $18M next year, is it asking too much for the Cubs to eat half of that as a part of a trade.
It will get better.
It shouldn't be.
If I was Hendry and a team said I only had to pay him $9 million I’d offer to sell you my daughter as well
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Right now...
…it would likely take more than that.
Next year, there is a chance the Cubs will be eating about 15 mil a year on Soriano and maybe 10-12 more with Z. Eating 25 mil a year for players you don’t even have, would likely make papa Ricketts a happy man.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Who would want him?
It’s not really about “eating the contract” anymore. IF (big IF) he can come back to the team (which I think is doubtful), the only way that he goes anywhere on this deal is if the Cubs get a bad contract in return.
I hope he is serious and he retires. The Cubs can be done with him and the deal. However, there’s so much money left on the table that I don’t think it will happen. I do think they could come to an agreement to buy him out though. Maybe they can just pay him for the rest of this season and they can all walk away after it forfeiting next season.
by jerry morales rules on Aug 13, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Friend of mine who's a Yankees fan
Says they’d probably still take Z at a reduced rate. Good. Let him destroy another team. If it was the Yankees, it couldn’t happen to a nicer team.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
You know what...
…if Z was on the Yanks, the strength of the expectations in the organization (how players are supposed to act) and the player leadership they have, may be what a guy like him needs to stay inline.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I'm a Reds fan
The biggest reason the Reds are in third place is the lack of quality starting pitching after Cueto and Leake. Our bullpen which is filled with quality arms was overused in the early going due to terrible starting pitching, so it is running on fumes. The Reds need another quality arm.
Zambrano’s stuff is still there, it isn’t quite as good as it was 3 years ago, but he still is capable of being a top shelf pitcher (if he wants to be, big if).
Next year is his final guaranteed year, and they say there is no such thing as a bad one year contract.
While Zambrano was always known as a headcase, the worst of it didn’t occur until after Dusty left. While Dusty has many many many flaws, I think his soft touch worked with Zambrano.
Shouldn’t be there first or second plan, but it should considered as a way to possibly upgrade (if nothing else pans out) the staff, and if he is still an asshole, they can cut him without much long term pain.
Also the Cubs shouldn’t worry too much about it, because it is pretty unrealistic to expect the Cubs to compete, and the player(s) the Reds would send to Chicago probably won’t have much impact for the Cubs as well. And the Cubs would have to eat a significant part of his contract, like at least half.
It will get better.
by Yossarian22 on Aug 13, 2011 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd trade him away in a heartbeat
I wouldn’t need even a low A prospect. A rosin bag is good enough.
Maybe, just maybe, a new organization is what he could use. I’d trade him today for Peavy if the White Sox wanted to save some money. Maybe Guillen could talk some sense into him, however, he’s not a mentally strong person. I have little doubt that he can succeed anywhere.
by jerry morales rules on Aug 13, 2011 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
I know why the Braves did not go all the way out to fight with Z
…..because he is unstable. I would not be surprised to see Z run and scream at them like this…..
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Did Z get a warning before he got ejected?
I can see why you’d eject him then, but after giving up 5 home runs, I’d understand a pitcher trying to avoid the strikezone. I didn’t watch the game, so i don’t know how much malice there was behind the pitch.
Are you kidding?
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
The pitch wasn’t at Chipper’s head. I wasn’t there /didn’t watch the game, so I couldn’t see if Z was staring Chipper down or something before hand. Unless there was a warning issues, or the pitch was at Chipper’s head, I don’t think an ejection was the proper response. We don’t know if that pitch was intentionally trying to hit him. Z was already having a horrible night. It doesn’t seem unreasonable that Z overthrew it or something and almost hit him. It happens…
by Rhymenoceros on Aug 13, 2011 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
FYI...
…it is not proper baseball protocol when you are throwing at someone to throw at their head.
When you try and plunk someone, you throw right at their hip.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
He hit Uggla in the hip earlier
after he was hacked about the home runs. The ump didn’t need to give any warnings. Z was out of line.
Two straight pitches after getting jacked for 5 homers....
this doesn’t take a genius to figure out.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
by watching the video
it was extremely clear that it was intentional
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
He might have actually got a warning after he beaned someone earlier.
Even if that’s not the case, the ejection was warranted. He’s lucky McCann’s hurt and wasn’t there to show Z what it’s like when a real bully gets involved.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
So SenorGato got banned?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Aug 13, 2011 11:41 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Yes, he did.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
When?
Saw a comment from just yesterday.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Last night
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes and he has been washing his hair ever since.
He is now dandruff free.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2011 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
In the most amazing flameout ever
He created a Fanshot about the PCL, and Al was the first post to ask they he include the link he took his quote/information from. That eventually resulted in something about threadcrapping, claiming he’s a victim, posting a picture of an elephant peeing and pooping in a street without a subject line so you couldn’t minimize the picture, and then to top that…
He dropped c-bomb, calling us all that, saying we’re a hive mind, saying crap about Al, saying we’re looked down upon by other blogs, etc. He essentially skydove onto his sword.
After he was banned, he, or at least someone appearing to be him, created multiple Twitter accounts and posted to the Head and Shoulders thing on the side, which has since been removed. The stuff in there was the most vile stuff I’ve seen on here, or anywhere. He, at least I think it was him, came completely unglued.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Outstanding
He essentially skydove onto his sword.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
In the "Phil Rogers" thread,
SG made some 30+ one-word comments because Shanghai Badger said that, like dtpollitt, had blocked him.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Which still cracks me up
Because I can’t see them!
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Where's the Phil Roger's thread? I can't find it
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Fell off the front page
It’s an older fan shot
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Here you go.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I like your response
I LAWLED
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah.
I don’t know if that sequence is funny or just sad. He flamed out later that night.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
You're right.
That stuff is really vile. The feed just came back, and he’s now filled it up with posts that would get even the nicest poster banned from BCB.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow I'm sorry I missed all that.
Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the ground each morning the devil says, "OH CRAP, SHE'S UP"!
you got a shout out
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2011 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm sure it was all warm and fuzzy.
Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the ground each morning the devil says, "OH CRAP, SHE'S UP"!
I think that ejections are overused.
The pitch wasn’t at Chipper’s head. I wasn’t there /didn’t watch the game, so I couldn’t see if Z was staring Chipper down or something before hand. Unless there was a warning issues, or the pitch was at Chipper’s head, I don’t think an ejection was the proper response. We don’t know if that pitch was intentionally trying to hit him. Z was already having a horrible night. It doesn’t seem unreasonable that Z overthrew it or something and almost hit him. It happens…
Z wanted to get tossed
he was going to throw at players until he did. he was showing up Quade as much as anythign else.
I heard that Chipper said that Z was throwing a cutter at him. He added that if Z was really trying to hit him, he would have throw a straight fastball. it seemed like Chipper implied that Z just wanted to get tossed.
by jerry morales rules on Aug 13, 2011 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
No way...
….two straight pitches right at the guys hip (after giving up 5 dings) was as obvious as you can get.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
He was
Trying to hit him. Watched it live, and there was no doubt. The Umpire saw what he was doing.
No one on the Braves showed Z up on any of
The 5 home runs.
Good Guys Wear Blue
by Cubskingdom on Aug 13, 2011 11:49 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Guys, relax
So Z’s a baby. Is that news to anyone? He ‘walked out on the team’? Such cliches. He was out of the game anyway. The poor guy was mauled — and nobody bothered to leave the dugout to talk to him or, more curiously, take him out. Yeah, it’s not the right way to react. But neither is it a reason to get rid of him.
If you really care about winning, there is only one question, maybe two. Is he still a good pitcher — cause there aren’t a lot of those around. And why don’t we have a pitching coach that can figure out what he was doing wrong and can deal with him better?
Rothschild couldn't figure him out either
That’s two pitching coaches.
I don’t know if he is a good pitcher anymore. Physically, yes, but the mental part is just as important. That’s where he fails. He hasn’t been a good pitcher the past 2 seasons. I don’t know if it can come back.
by jerry morales rules on Aug 13, 2011 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
You know, I love that every single defender of Zambrano has claimed he didn't walk out on the team...
when his own TEAMMATES are saying he walked out on them. This isn’t the BCB reaction to what happened, it’s the CUBS’ reaction to what happened.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
You know what was even more ridiculous
was frikin Mike Quade making public to the world that Zambrano had walked out on his team. I honestly don’t care about that part. What ever happened to “what happens in the locker room stays in the locker room.” I guarantee you any other organization keeps things quiet and handles it in a better manner.
So...you want them to cover for a guy who does this every year?
I would imagine every single Cub who has been with the team for more than six months is absolutely fed up with his act. At some point, you don’t get covered for anymore
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm just saying
it’s pretty low for the whole organization to be pontificating about the incident.
Quade looked like a complete zombie when giving that interview.
You're defending someone who is an asshole
Is this really the path you want to go down?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
again, I'm not trying to defend what Zambrano did, that was indefensible
I’m just trying to offer a different perspective than the self-righteous anger and piling on.
I’m sure the media is just loving it.
So you're being contrarian to be contrarian.
We just got rid of one of those guys. Do we really need to fill that “hole” in the roster so quickly?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
No, it's what I believe
and I know it’s different. I actually like Zambrano and am sad to see him go.
The man had an ERA under 4 for his entire career. Oh well.
I like winning
And as others have posted, this crap wouldn’t be permitted on a winning team in a strong organization.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
The whole organization?
I’ve heard Byrd, Aram, and Quade. Hendry was asked about it and gave a one sentence answer.
You’re letting your personal feelings for Zambrano cloud your judgement BIG TIME
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Would you rather others report the guy walked out
Problem with your scenario is this isn’t within the clubhouse.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Perhaps Zambrano lost the right to that type of protection by his actions?
Every code of omertà has its exceptions and I think that’s got to be one of them, or it would be if I had anything to say about it.
by owllover711 on Aug 13, 2011 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions
There was a mound visit immediately before this happened.
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Aug 13, 2011 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Can we stop pushing this bullshit line of "Oh, if only he harnessed his talent."
The man had an ERA under 4 every single season of his career except this one. Let me repeat that, he NEVER had an ERA above 4 in a full season in his career.
He’s one of the better Cubs pitchers I’ve ever seen. I saw his no hitter in person, I saw him win 18 games, and sometimes saw his passion.
Oh well, I’m sure Sullivan and Gordo are sipping on martinis as they finally ran him out of town for good.
What a shame.
by Bad Midget on Aug 13, 2011 11:49 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
What a load of crap.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not defending this incident. That's indefensible. All I'm saying is he had a really good career
here and he was one of my favorite Cubs players ever.
What a statistically good career he had...
There’s more that goes into a career than that.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
I think he was generally liked by his teammates
and he was one of the more actively involved Cubs in charities. I’m not sure what else you could want from him.
It’s not his fault Hendry didn’t see the signs of decline and gave him all that money.
He lost about 4MPH on his fastball and still competed his ass off. People always say they want passion and fire in a player, yet when Zambrano did it he was chastised for it.
I’m not trying to defend what happened, because Z did act like a complete a-hole, but for someone who liked and respected him it’s tough to see him go out like this.
Do you really think someone who has gotten into one physical altercation with one player
came close to it with another, has called his teammates AAA players, constantly whines, cries, bitches, destroys water coolers, verbally fights with his managers, takes his ball and goes home, etc. is generally liked by his teammates? Seriously? Come on dude.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
I think he's "liked" by his teammates
But I’ve had a few friends over the years just like him. They’re really cool to hang with when things are going good. When there’s a meltdown it tends to be “oh god here we go again” And we backed off quite qjuickly from his area of destruction
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I've had friends like that too
and now I’m not friends with them because the bullcrap is too much to put up with. Those people really wear on you over time.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
That's why I say he's probably not liked
because that behavior is too much to take. I’m sure people were probably cool around him much like how an abused child tries to act as quietly as possible around their abusive dad.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Had a guy our softball team do that just the other day
Goes way over the edge. Finally this time, after numerous blowups the past several seasons, he too may have “retired”. Good riddance.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I think...
…you are giving those two goofy writers way too much credit.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Sully and Gordo sippin on martinis?
Why would sports writers want to run this guy out of town? He’s hands down, the most entertaining sports figure the city of Chicago has to write about.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
They're racist
Or some other nonsense
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
You obviously don't read the papers
the “lazy latino” crap has been pushed for years by those two (and Rosenbloom).
I’m sure Aramis is the next target (hell, by reading this place he already is.
Lord.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
doesn't make it right
and use of that word only incites people and so difficult to prove.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I have never singled them out because they are Latin....
That is typical deflection of the bigger problem.
Aram and Soriano are lazy. Not because they are latin, but becasue they are lazy.
Nice try…..
He is lazy but not becuase of where he comes from but from his attitude
By using that Latino argument, it infers Casto is too and that simply is inaccurate.
Rami doesn’t hustle out of the box on a long hit ball is a factor only of his individual play, not from where he is from, his nationality or anything like that.
He’s a great talent that simply dogs it too often.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Believe me, I've seen Ramirez do that in person
But guess what, I’ve also seen Tyler Colvin, Reed Johnson, and, back in the day, Mark DeRosa do that too. But I’ve never seen an article written on Tyler Colvin being lazy. Never.
Also, people like to say “Aramis doesn’t like to dive for balls.” Yeah, except for that time he separated his shoulder diving for a ball in Milwaukee.
I’m not saying Aramis is perfect, but I don’t think you can honestly quantify that statement.
Sigh.
It is the degree and the regularity with which ARAM does it that brings him the attention. I don’t know why I’m trying to explain this, since I’m sure you actually know that.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
That may very well be true
but you can not quantify that statement. You can not say “by not hustling, Aramis is costing X amount of runs.” You can’t.
And honestly, the times I’ve seen him not run out fly balls are usually the ones that are obviously going to be caught. I’ve seen a ton of big league games in person and not too many players actually run out every single ball. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if the manager told them not to worry about running 100% on fly balls that are obviously going to be caught.
If you could quantify that statement, I doubt the number would be high at all. You and other media people make way too big a deal.
Hustle is hustle, Rami simply doesn't do enough of it, period
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
You can not prove that though
and even if you could, I’m sure it wouldn’t be costing the Cubs even one game.
In the large picture, that doesn’t add up to a whole lot. Fans just make a big deal out of it for no reason.
It also seems extremely petty when Aramis is easily the best player on the team.
What you need to see replays of him loafing it out of the box?
And you can’t prove this:
In the large picture, that doesn’t add up to a whole lot.
Whatever….
Just win the next game...!
Yeah don't they know that the baseball season is a sprint, not a marathon!
I mean there’s a reason people say that.
And the reason people say that isn't literally, because you aren't supposed to run down to first base
You understand….right?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
My point is that people spout the cliche all the time
…but then chastise players who act like it’s true.
Running as hard as you absolutely can on a grounder or an infield pop fly when there’s a 99.99999% chance you’ll be out (or if something goes wrong, safe anyway) is wasted effort. Players have a long season to play, and wasted energy is counter productive.
I don’t think it’s any coincidence that the players who most often act in this contemptable manner are from extremely hot and humid climates where they play year-round.
Wow....that's just ridiculous
The whole thing.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions
He appears to loaf more than most.
It doesn’t make us racist to voice that opinion
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Except for the fact
that other players do the exact same thing and I’ve never seen the media chastise them for it. I’ve never seen an article by Sullivan or people around here saying Tyler Colvin is lazy.
There’s a myth around here and Cubdom of “lazy latinos” which is pushed by Sullivan and Gordo all the time.
And honestly, Aramis is the best player on the team, who the hell cares if he doesn’t run out one fly ball?
You have no way of proving your statement. Yes, you do have a right to your opinion, but when said opinion has no basis, I have a problem with it.
Do you have proof Colvin loafed?
Let’s see it. Oh BTW what is the expectations of those two players? Equal?
There are high expectations of Rami so its fair game when a $15M player mails it in.
And to this:
And honestly, Aramis is the best player on the team, who the hell cares if he doesn’t run out one fly ball?
One? No, many. And I do care when he ends up on 1st after hitting one high off the wall or in the gaps.
Just win the next game...!
do you have proof of Aramis loafing constantly and can you quantify it?
Otherwise it’s just a meaningless statement.
If you can not prove Armais’ loafing is costing the Cubs, the statement is useless.
That's a meaningless question
I can not quantify his “hustling.” I would just be guessing like you are based on my preconceived opinions of players. And honestly, just by watching games on TV, it’s pretty hard to tell.
I think the hustling question is just like the loafing. They are just stereotypes pushed by the media. The latin players are called lazy and the small white guys are just “gritty.”
It’s unfortunate.
I am not guessing, I can see it
Just like when my kids dog it at practice or in a game; whether it be on the basepaths, out of the batters box or in the field.
You’re throwing out this argument to “quantify” like it can be measured by caloric burn, acceleration or number of seconds it takes to run a certain distance.
Hustle is an approach, its qualitative, not quantitative.
Just win the next game...!
I am not guessing, I can see it
You may very well “see” it, but you can not prove with facts that Ramirez is loafing any more than any other player.
Honestly, Ramirez does (IMO) seem to loaf more than others, but when things add up, he’s not costing us games, he’s not costing us tons of runs.
I just don’t think it’s that big of a deal. You disagree and that’s fine.
You have got to be shitting me
“Honestly, Ramirez does (IMO) seem to loaf more than others
"
And you’re claiming you AREN’T arguing just to argue?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
You're missing the point by a mile. You took that out of context.
when things add up, he’s not costing us games, he’s not costing us tons of runs.
You can’t prove it and it probably doesn’t add up to anything. That’s the point
I'm not trying to prove that. So I'm okay not being able to
You claimed that all the claims that ARAM loafs, especially by the media, are because he’s latino. You then CONCEDED the point that he loafs more than others.
Whether or not that costs the team games is another argument, though just using the common sense approach, if the team’s “best” player is loafing more often than anyone else (which again you just conceded) it’s going to hurt the team, to what degree is in question.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think I ever called anybody here racist
I just said in the media there seems to be this stereotype of "lazy latinos.’ That’s what you took objection to. Then you claimed Ramirez just is more lazy which I said you couldn’t prove and you then proceeded to say yes but it’s my opinion.
And then you admitted he loafed more than other players......
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
So, the media is racist when they say it, but when you say
its innocuous? I don’t see where the line is drawn
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I get called a racist every year at some point for pointing out that Soriano does not hustle...
It is such a weak argument point…
i am used to it…When they have no facts they play the race card.
Compared to who?
He hustles much more than Sori but less than Byrd who himself hustles less than Campana.
There is a reason...
…for all of this.
If Campana didn’t bust his ass, he wouldn’t be in the bigs right now, plain and simple, so he is motivated to do so. Sori is loaded with natural talent and has never had to bust his ass and the same is true with Ramirez. Byrd has talent, but not as much as Sori and Ramirez and therefore has to step on it more.
The true superstars in any sport, have both loads of talent and the desire to give full effort to maximize their talent. All sports have guys who have a bunch of talent, but don’t have the motivation to always give max effort. IMO, good organizations, don’t like to have those types of guys.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Green Bay Packers, too.
They’ve done away with many of their egos since TT took over as GM (no better example than QB #4).
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Chicago Blackhawks also
Several players jettisoned in the last three years, some veteran, some younger.
“One Goal” is not just some marketing gimmick.
Just win the next game...!
It doesn't matter that it's not quantifiable.
Some of us…quite a few of us, believe that he loafs more than other players. That is a matter of opinion. Your assertion, which is complete and utter bullshit, is that our opinions are based on nationality and not on what we’re seeing on the field. It’s utter bullshit because you don’t have the slightest CLUE what our motivations are.
I’m done with this. I’ve been celebrating the loss of SG all morning, I’m not gonna get caught up with yet another poster who argues just for the sake of arguing.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
It doesn’t matter that it’s not quantifiable.
It’s a meaningless thing to say then.
that our opinions are based on nationality and not on what we’re seeing on the field
I’ve not once called you racist or insinuated that you discriminate towards a certain type of player. All I was saying was that there’s a complete double standard for players like A-ram.
I’ve seen players do the exact same thing as A-Ram and never have they been called out for it.
I’m just pointing out there’s a complete double standard here and it’s pushed my the media.
Last time
It’s a meaningless thing to say then.
No it’s not. I’m offering an opinion, I don’t need to back up every opinion with WAR or UZR statistics. Especially since I’m not trying to convince you of it.
I’ve seen players do the exact same thing as A-Ram and never have they been called out for it"
Because, once again, ARAM is thought to be caught doing it more and more regularly than other players.
I remember plenty of white guys being called out for “lazy play”
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I don’t need to back up every opinion with WAR or UZR statistics
You don’t need facts to back up opinions. Brilliant.
That's not what I said.
But…I’m done
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Give us stats on why you find someone attractive
Or why you like a certain work of art — song, book, etc.
Go on, we’ll wait. If you can’t give stats on it, your opinion is apparently invalid.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
And the entire point he's making
…is that since “showing hustle” is such a nebulous, silly, intangible thing, and that Latin players are the targets of those accusations most often, that it might actually reflect the beliefs of the beholder, and not necessarily the efforts of the player.
Ironically, her point can't actually be backed up with any proof, or statistics
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
It's disingenuous at best to make that leap.
In fact, it’s just as racist to say, “well, this guy doesn’t like someone else who happens to be Latin, therefore, he doesn’t like anyone who is.”
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
You know what?
If someone didn’t know what side you were arguing and just saw this post, they’d think you were Archie Bunker.
You’re a smart guy, Wreckard. But I think that you could use some introspective on this.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Huh?
That analogy doesn’t make any sense.
You’re the one lacking introspection here. Why is it that the “lazy” players always happen to be Latino? I’m not even saying it’s necessarily racism on the part of the beholder, though that’s a reasonable theory. It could also be due to cultural differences, etc.
But the fact is there’s a distinct trend there, and it’s worth noting and questioning.
Someone else was implying it was racism
And you seemed to be backing that assertion.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
But again, you seemed to be endorsing it.
Saying it’s reasonable is, in fact, reasonable. But there was no hint of the qualifier in your earlier comments.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Been over an hour, still waiting...
Can’t wait to see the comeback on that one.
Just win the next game...!
It really...
…comes down to one thing; body language and body language can tell you a lot about what is going on inside one’s head and is something that has been studied to a great degree.
Granted, there are some players who are so smooth, it looks like they aren’t trying as hard as another guy, who is bouncing around with all limbs flying to get to the same place at the same time the guy with talent does. With that said, Ramirez and some other guys display body language that clearly looks like they don’t give a shit and that is very difficult to ignore.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Careful now
you’ll be labeled a hater by some because of this [correct] observation:
Ramirez and some other guys display body language that clearly looks like they don’t give a shit and that is very difficult to ignore.
Just win the next game...!
disagreement
and hate are not the same thing.
"I lof to hit de home ron!"
Ramirez and some other guys display body language that clearly looks like they don’t give a shit and that is very difficult to ignore.
And who cares? Who honestly cares. I know I don’t. I like my players to be actually good at playing baseball, which Ramirez is.
And what a weird statement. What does body language have to do with anything? Ramirez is having a hell of a year. That’s als that matters to me.
The whole “hustling” thing is blow out of proportion in my mind.
Just keep moving those goalposts chief.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Depends on what type...
…of baseball organization you want to have as to whether you care or not.
IMO, most of the best, don’t like the perception that some of their players play when they feel lke it (like after their team is out of the race) and they also don’t want the young guys watching this as an example.
Ramirez has loads of talent, but I don’t think he is a good example to the young players.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Who cares?
Anyone who thinks the name on the front is more important than the one on the back.
Keep ducking and dodging…
Just win the next game...!
I'm a fan
I care if my team has good players. Hustling is not quantifiable, so it’s pretty meaningless.
Do you think...
…a player giving maximum effort to be important?
If you do, just because you can’t measure it on a spreadsheet, doesn’t mean it isn’t important.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
This is exactly why this is a problem
body language and body language can tell you a lot about what is going on inside one’s head and is something that has been studied to a great degree.
Body language differs greatly from culture to culture. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that the players most often at the receiving end of the “you don’t hustle” stick are from another culture.
Ramirez and some other guys display body language that clearly looks like they don’t give a shit and that is very difficult to ignore.
And I’d say you’re imposing American cultural standards on them.
But there's no problem in making the leap you did above?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
The leap that if you notice only players of a certain culture get painted with a certain brush
…that it might indicate something other than what is being said? Not really.
Wow. Just, wow.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
correct...that is always the fallback position...
It is apparently racist to point out that Rami and Soriano are lazy
Very clever my friend
but you can not prove Ramirez is lazy either, so both of us shouldn’t be talking about it. We should all agree it’s rally meaningless to say one player is more lazy than another.
Yeah I can, I can go pull the video highlights of
him loafing out of the box. Of him lollygagging on the basepaths. If you can’t see it or don’t wish to acknowledge it, fine.
This has now run its course.
Just win the next game...!
yes, but does that cost the Cubs runs?
can you prove his loafing out of the box is costing the Cubs games? If you can, I will admit you’re right.
some players...
…are motivated to give 100% physical and mental effort all the time and some aren’t. All you have to do is watch to see the difference with how players carry themselves.
This really comes down to a player’s personality, character and how their brain is wired. They are who they are.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I fail to see
how this matters. Why does having bad body language matter? It seems like a meaningless thing to say.
Of all the things to be mad about, people are upset about him not running out a few fly balls. I honestly don’t care if a guy does that. I really don’t. It’s nice, but I don’t care.
I just want the team I root for to have good players. I don’t care if they have bad body language. I don’t care if they hate Chicago. I just want my players to be good at baseball.
We disagree...
…it is much more than “having good players” and Hendry rosters since 2004 prove this out.
It’s not just about getting good players, it is about getting a mix of “the right players” that actually “produce” what you want them to on the baseball field; scoring runs, catching the ball, pitching and playing smart baseball.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Whats the frequency of occurance of the other guys
I can see why he doesn’t always dive, that makes sense and I was at that game too; ouch!
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey, this is completely off topic but......
My wife isn’t a sports fan…..
I’ve just been hired on to cover the Chiefs for a different blog network and am trying to come up with a good name for the blog. I thought of “On the Warpath” but wondered if that was a bit “on the nose” and borderline offensive.
Anyone got any ideas?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
"Who are the Chefs?"
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
It's on the nose as it pertains to the Cheifs
however borderline but not for the reasons many here would cite.
Please do not ever equate sports to the military.
Warrior, war, trenches, foxhole… all of those types of references are an insult to our countries true hero’s, our military.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Kansas City
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I like it, though again I wonder about the offense some might take.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
congrats Nunya
“On the Warpath” is cool too, doesn’t seem directed to the Native American Indian culture as much :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks Coolio
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I LOL'd
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Tebow starting in 2011 will set the team up to succeed for many years
They may be bad enough to draft Luck in 2012…..
I wouldn't call it anything like that...
you should consult some local tribal leaders or something like that and see what they would deem unoffensive and might also be pretty cool… this is assuming Peoria uses the Chiefs name to with any nod to Native American Indians.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Scratch that...
Kansas City.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
How about “Flinty-eyed heroes” or something like that with flints since that was often used to make arrowheads?
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Aug 13, 2011 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Ron Artest should talk with Z
And with that, I’m out.
Wolf Gang.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 12:23 PM CDT reply actions
Something else about this
People are calling this a “tantrum” and a “meltdown”.
Rewatch the tape.
Z is totally calm. Deliberately gets himself ejected by throwing at Chipper (without actually hitting him) after being hung out to dry by a manager who should have pulled him after the 4th home run. He calmly walks off the field and into the dugout.
I think this is a man completely disgusted with an incompetent manager and an awful pitching coach, and fed up with his own trouble competing. He did it in the biggest F U way possible to the staff, making them look awful in the process.
by Wreckard on Aug 13, 2011 12:24 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
He took his ball and went home, threatening never to return
I don’t care how you spin it. It was childish douchebaggery.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
perhaps in his douchebaggery he did us a favour by making mgmt look stupid too
100 BCB points for the use of" douchebaggery".
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
They were doing plenty to look stupid all on their own
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
You bet, this just helped.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2011 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that's exactly what he did
but that’s not the right way to go about being a major league baseball player
Wreckard is right
Z was cool as the proverbial cucumber. On second thought, I think it was great.
Hi Mrs. Zambrano!
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Not endorsing it
Just making an observation. I’m disappointed in anything that might cause Z to never pitch here again.
annnnnnnnd
the twitter feed is back
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
HAHAAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHA
I’m willing to be SBNation can’t take it down if they want the money H&S was promised. This was a really bad idea by the shampoo marketing group
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
be = bet
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Its pretty bad thats for sure
(I couldnt help but laugh a bit – Im 31 but immature)
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
The Palumalu commercial is funny
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
It was a illconceived promotion that's been allowed to go on for too long
If i was running a business appealing to baseball fans (such as a Stubhub affiliate or something), I’d be routinely hitting the twitter feed of all 30 MLB clubs in order to get free advertising on the various SBN platforms.
Designing a media campaign that encourages hijacking your #hashtag is idiotic. I feel badly for Al, but H&S deserves every bad bit of publicity it gets for this fiasco.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 13, 2011 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1,000
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't Al say he notified Twitter? I'm surprised it's still being allowed to be updated.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
The feed was gone earlier,
But it has come back since.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm saying TWITTER not SBNation.
SBNation put the feed back up because they are probably contractually obligated to do so. Twitter should be taking the accounts down because they’ve been notified that someone is impersonating someone to that person’s detriment.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Ah, I got it now.
You’re right.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
seems that SG22 got banned/deleted
only took about 15 hours
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Al - your SBN folks should see if there is a H@S twitter guy working today
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 13, 2011 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep
… and now I’m in there. Whoever it is is getting desperate if they’ve run out of other posters and finally got to me.
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie
Im surprised
considering all the puns you could make with Hammer -
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Al,
you should strongly consider a decease and desist letter to SB Nation as well as H&S. That seems like a pretty clear case of slander.
For two companies with deep pockets I’d be they’d respond pretty damn quick to a d&d letter.
"Playoffs?!" -Jim Mora
by Castro Por Presidente on Aug 13, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
hahaha cease and desist
wow. just wow.
"Playoffs?!" -Jim Mora
by Castro Por Presidente on Aug 13, 2011 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I think asking them to die would be a bit harsh
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
It's really a lot easier than that...
if we’re offended by it… then flood it with more positive posts on twitter (for those that have it). I would have done it already if I wanted my name anywhere near that or represented in an advertisement on BCB.
It’s what Al and SBN should be doing right now themselves.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions
just me or is it gone?
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
and so with that, the brutal SenorGato Wars had come to an official, much needed end
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2011 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not so sure it was actually SenorGato.
Would he really make 2 seperate accounts and talk about himself like that?
Why are we bothering analyzing such a worthless person's MOs?
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Whoever it was...
…should be getting a call from authorities. The line was crossed, big time.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Guy in New York did the same thing to me,
And got arrested a short while afterward. Seems he was doing it to everyone he could think of.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
howd he cross the line??
Im obviously he was vulgar
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Vulgarity is one thing
and leave it to immature to do this – threats of physical violence is another – should be checked into at this point. Too many weirdos out there sadly.
I take it you didn't see the imposter Al Yellon account?
That was full of things that would get both of us banned from BCB, maybe even SB Nation.
Seems it was deleted since I can’t reopen it now.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah.
It must have just been deleted … I could still access it about 15 minutes ago.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Or did Twitter delete it?
They do have the power to delete fake accounts that impersonate others.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
This is true
Sad it’s come to this but the good, intelligent posters far out number the whackos so I don’t spend much time worrying about them.
It's going past
satire and crossing into slander and/or libel.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Guy at the Vikings blog
Created a puppet Packers fan account under the alias “KINGRODGERS” and talked to himself on several threads at APC.
Only problem is, everyone knew it was the same person.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
It was here,
Disappeared for a short while, came back, and now it’s gone. The imposter Al Yellon account is full of nasty tweets about many of us here.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
i dont have a shout out. total bullcrap
guess i have to try harder on the hivemind’s next victim
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2011 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't have a shout-out either.
Which is surprising, considering how nasty he got toward me in threads here.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Do I?
‘cause I’m claiming credit for his end at BCB!
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
No, you didn't either,
At least not from what I could see.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I did! I'm more special than you are!
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
In fact I think I got two!
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Aw, man! The attention whore didn't give me attention!
I shall write him a sternly worded, incomprehensible rant that moves goal posts.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
You go
You go girl!
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Be sure to include as many offensive things as you can!
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
And sarcastic replies to arguments that haven't actually been made!
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm going to eat yogurt first
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Think this thread will get over 1,000 comments?
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
i think the more important issue is
what type of cheetos sully gave Z
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2011 12:38 PM CDT reply actions
Bye-bye Zambrano...
You were good for about 6 years, now you’re a washed up has been who’s a shell of your former self. Throwing at Chipper for hitting a home-run off of your shit fastball, very professional! Chipper’s one of the most respected players in the game, and all you are is a sideshow!
I can give a rat’s ass about your career WAR or other statistics, but the fact is that you’re not good anymore, heck you’re not even mediocre!
Hopefully you can find happiness outside of baseball, similar to Milton Bradley.
If the Ricketts family wants to send a message to the fan base, getting rid of Zambrano would be a start.
Doubt it...
…but I bet he would jump at a consultant position, like Scotty Bowman did with the Blackhawks.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Thought he did but MPH73 has a point
Like the ’Hawks signed Scotty, so too could the Cubs hire Cox. Everyone has a price.
Just win the next game...!
Bruce Levine...
…said today he talked to Cox and he asked him if he would manage again. Cox didn’t give him a definitive answer. Cox also said; he gets up at 6am, goes to starbucks, then he and his wife go to the healthclub and he has nothing to do after 12pm.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I wouldn't want Cox to manage the Cubs anyway.
I had enough of the guy trying to coax one more season out of his career with Lou
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
maybe not manage but in another capacity
But perhaps we already got the Ricketts’ “baseball guy watching a baseball guy” answer already.
Just win the next game...!
Cox came down from the front office to be a manager right?
Perhaps back to the front office?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions
That was a very long time ago.
I doubt Cox would want a full-time gig.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
As a special assistant to President Pat Gillick?
I’m not saying give him the GM’s job. Just bring him aboard
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
If Ricketts...
…is actually ready to take a swing to make a difference, Cox should be on his short list.
I think Cox would jump at a consultant role, as long as he knew it wouldn’t be a token position.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Old enough to know enough
Really I don’t know his age…But he’s one smart cookie.
Just win the next game...!
About 70...
…but the dude clearly has a lot left in the tank.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
smh
I’m an embarrassed Z fan…..and i think the time is long overdue for him to be elsewhere…..whether that means a MLB team or not…..Ricketts/Hendry has the conflict of deciding to eat Z’s contract or let him stay….
Of course, the decision would be much easier if the Cubs acknowledge that 2012 will not be a contending year….that they’ll be rebuilding…….
Two Words: Salty Saltwell
by Unclemike on Aug 13, 2011 1:00 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
So is it official yet?
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
If you disagree with me in any way, you are wrong.
i have a feeling that if Z doesnt retire
he’ll get put on the restricted list, sent to anger management again, and hendry will tell us that he’s changed again and that he’s forgiven etc
ugh
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
Don't think so...
…I think the first part of what you say is correct; restricted list, counseling, but this will be it for Z and the Cubs. This will be another Sosa type of deal with a trade, with the Cubs having absolutely zero leverage and they will need to eat considerable dough.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
It's sort of surprising to me that the team couldn't find a trade partner in the offseason considering how well he pitched down the stretch
then again, we have Jim Hendry
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
how much were the cubs willing to eat?
im guessing other GMs knew that Z was still a headcase
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Honestly, more than they will be willing to eat this time around I'm sure.
Jim Hendry is a damn fool for believing Carlos wasn’t going to do something like this again. If for no other reason, he should have allowed the Milton Bradley situation to teach him a lesson on issues like this.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
or the many, many, many other times Zambrano has done it.
THAT is how this is yet another strike against Hendry. I hope Ricketts sees that.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
third times the charm
…right?
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
but...
When you eat Z’s contract….that doesn’t that contradict Hendry’s plan to contend in 2012?
Two Words: Salty Saltwell
by Unclemike on Aug 13, 2011 1:39 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Hendry has a plan to contend?
I know he WANTS to contend. I doubt there’s a real plan in place
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Not really, its the other side of the coin
on what they do as an org to backfill that position, perhaps others when you look at the magnitude of money Z is making.
Just win the next game...!
Stay retired!
Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired! Stay retired!
"Playoffs?!" -Jim Mora
by Castro Por Presidente on Aug 13, 2011 1:45 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
More of what he said
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions
i had no idea you were a Z apologist
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2011 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I can only cover my spots for so long!
"Playoffs?!" -Jim Mora
by Castro Por Presidente on Aug 13, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Wait...
So what are you saying?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I had only two thoughts after I read about this
1. I wonder if it’s bad that I’m so desensitized to Z’s antics that I literally had no reaction but to laugh a bit.
2. Dave Bush is probably kicking himself for opting out of his contract literally a day or 2 before Zambrano freaks out.
by Mulhollandmania on Aug 13, 2011 1:53 PM CDT reply actions
Someone might want to turn off the twitter feed on the main page.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 13, 2011 1:56 PM CDT reply actions
I believe...
…that would be the right call.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Got a question...
if Z retires and the Cubs rid themselves of his salary…what if he decides to UN-retire in a year or 2? Is he a FA then or do the Cubs still have rights even tho his contract was voided?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
I think...
…he has to sit out for a period of time. Not sure how long.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Pretty sure his contract is in force until it expires
But if he files with the league to retire, the Cubs don’t have to pay. If he comes back, I imagine the Cubs would have the option to take him back under the contract, or release him as a FA.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 13, 2011 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Just read this article:
From the Tribune in which they state he’d still be property of the Cubs. I think he’d be under their control until his contract expires
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
But to fight about it...
they’d have to want to pay his salary.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
But only if he wanted to "un-retire" right?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Right...
he’d actually have to file the papers to officially retire… versus just not showing up anymore and being in breach of contract and forfeiting the money.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Lets just hope
Mike and Jim follow Z on the unemployment line.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Excellent quote from Sutcliffe, who I generally consider borderline moronic
"When you have a guy like that where every day you have to go in and check his mood ring, see if you can be around him, it wears you out,’’ Sutcliffe said. "Jim Hendry can’t let that go on. He has to part ways. Whatever it takes to buy him out, he’s got to get it done. It’s not fair to the rest of the guys on the team.’’
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
He makes a good point
you make a better one – he is borderline moronic
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
He's hard to listen to 99% of the time. On this he's spot on
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Carlos Zambrano did nothing wrong and should be given a 10 year extension?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I was wondering how close we were to that.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Not sure if you guys missed it
but there’s a report up on CBS that Soriano went back to the clubhouse where Z was still at. He went on a tirade, yelling at Z in Spanish, at which point Z quietly cleaned out his locker and left.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 13, 2011 2:55 PM CDT reply actions
Wow...I don't know what to think about that.
On the one hand…Go Soriano…
On the other hand, why the hell did he have to diminish that by hot dogging it later in the game…
And on the 3rd hand, is this the beginning of the spin?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
For some reason
I feel as if the Cubs get killed tonight and possible shut out
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
I bet they win 12-3
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I bet they get rained out.
There. Between the three of us, we’ve got it covered.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
Or raptured!
There NOW we’re covered
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions
i bet z runs out onto the field naked giving everyone the finger
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2011 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
That
would be
AWESOME
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Well at least then he'd have shown up...
gotta get that money somehow.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
hahahah
Going out like Costanza
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
God...LMAO
A moment like that would make all of the crap of this season worthwhile.
Also, just imagine the fun of watching the Z apologists trying to spin that!
by bluekoolaide on Aug 13, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Sad, really.
I hope the guy can find peace in his life. Time to move on happened long ago for all parties concerned.
"Hey Hey, Holy mackerel, no doubt about it,!"
I read all thousand or so comments.
And I’ve come to the conclusion that Jim Hendry should be relieved of his duties.
FIRE JIM HENDRY. Injuries aren't the problem.
by shoemile on Aug 13, 2011 3:03 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Exactly.
Jim Hendry needs to go. Injuries aren’t the problem.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
.....it really and truly ALL comes down to that...period.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
The sad thing is that we've known that for a couple of years now.
Will Ricketts do it? I see no reason why not, but I also can’t understand why he was retained for this season either.
Seemed quite obvious that he should've been canned after last year.
So really, who knows? Crap like this should make his decision easier.
FIRE JIM HENDRY. Injuries aren't the problem.
I don't see how this event will make a difference in Tom's mind
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, it appears the Cubs are now in need of ANOTHER starter for next year.
FIRE JIM HENDRY. Injuries aren't the problem.
the return of dougie d
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2011 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Mike Harkey!
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Imagine in the Mariners had actually drafted him...
like their idiot owner wanted to! The Cubs could have had Ken Griffey Jr on the ’89 team that went to the NLCS.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Hendry is the man for the job this offseason
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
And you think that'll be enough to convince him? I don't.
Either he was already gone at the end, or he’s coming back.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess so.
I can’t say I really have any idea what goes on inside Tom’s head.
FIRE JIM HENDRY. Injuries aren't the problem.
I would really hope that Tom MIGHT be paying attention to all the arguments both for and against Jim
and while this may not tip the scales, it weighs the Cons side down just a little bit more.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
It's kind of like a sunk cost
The stupidity of putting up with Zambrano’s antics is a decision that was made long ago.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, that's true but here's a conversation I hope took place over the offseason
Tom: Jim, why didn’t we do everything we could to find Zambrano a new home?
Jim: Tom, I made some calls and while there were some interested parties, none that didn’t want us to pick up a significant portion of his contract. Besides Z pitched really well at the end of the year and he says he’s going to be a changed man.
Tom: Hasn’t he said that before?
Jim: Yeah but this time I think it will stick.
I have to hope some kind of conversation like that took place and I have to hope that Jim gambling and losing AGAIN on Zambrano is another strike against him. If it’s not, I don’t understand why I continue to support this team. I really don’t.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I wish I could say I see this happening.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
people here say that Hendry's loyalty is his downfall, I think this goes double for Ricketts, PLUS
the fact that he doesn’t seem to have a clue that the same people he’s loyal to are sinking his billion dollar ship.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think this has been as fun of a job as Tom hoped it would be.
FIRE JIM HENDRY. Injuries aren't the problem.
A lot of that is on him
He’s made dumb calls almost from day one.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
My mother was a bison
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Grandpa wasn't...
he wasn’t “ok”
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Papa was a rolling stone, you know....
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I really don't think the dad is gonna step in....he'll complain and wonder what the f is going on,
he won’t want to spend money bailing his son out and in the end, he’ll sell the organization and take the loss…..reminds me of a certain oil guys son who also didnt know what he was doing when trying to live up to daddy’s rep.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
J.R. Ewing?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions
lol
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions
On the bright side,
they can find someone off the street to give what Z gave this year, and at a multi-million dollar discount.
We can only hope.
He(Tom) seems to be as clueless as Hendry, hopefully daddy steps in and forces a change if Tom doesn’t come to that realization in time. I can’t take more of this humiliation. The losing and the non-trade were embarrassing enough, this Z story is just crazy.
The long term future is what is at stake here.
If Tom wants to open his checkbook like the Tribune did after 2006 and let Hendry go on a spending spree, then I do believe they could contend in this weak division, and people would buy tickets again. But we’d fall right back in the crapper a couple years down the road. It’s Hendry’s pattern.
FIRE JIM HENDRY. Injuries aren't the problem.
Of course, I'm not advocating patching up this sinking ship with a signature
Hendry spending spree, I understand the need to build from the bottom up.
I know that's not what you were saying.
We appear to be in agreement. I just think that if all one cares about is getting better for next year and damn the future, then I could see Hendry being retained.
FIRE JIM HENDRY. Injuries aren't the problem.
Fail.
Hit “refresh”.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
So what? Hendry is giving him the silent treatment?
Do we have an adult in the house?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Also, do you think Z's agent realizes that 99% of Cubdom takes that as bad news?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Im hearing
Z on the disqualified list for 30 days. No pay and no contact with the team
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
what does that mean?
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
looks like an unpaid vacation to me
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
he has to sit in his room and think about what he did
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2011 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
let us in on his prayers and thoughts
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
oh boo-hoo....probably just what he wanted
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
It means Z isn't just walking away from 20-some million
And we’re headed for a grievance hearing.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 13, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
We can sign another 16 year old Dominican SS
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
I know that there are plenty of effective fatass pitchers around,
but isn’t it interesting that it seems like there’s a strong correlation between Z’s weight and his ERA and overall effectiveness. He was great when he was young and skinny; he seems to have gotten worse as his waistline ballooned.
Bartolo Colon snickers at your assertions
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
then eats another Snickers
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
So do CC, David Wells, Josh Beckett, etc.
But with Z it seems like his weight has held him back more than it has other pitchers.
Maybe, I think his drop in velocity and a less talented supporting case has affected him more.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Doesn't look like it.
He still looks real fat to me.
What other manager would sit in the dugout
and watch his #2 starter surrender 5 HRs and do nothing? Remember that the entire team had to go through this experience. Was it some sort of payback for Zambrano’s disrespect of Quade? I don’t buy that our manager was saving the bullpen. If a manager watches one of his pitchers get hammered for 5 dingers, it’s just the humane thing to pull him. If he had, we probably be having this discussion.
Yes, Z was terribly, terribly wrong. But what about the actions of Quade.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Quade is an idiot. There's really no denying that. That's no defense of Z.
As someone else pointed out, CC Sabathia gave up 5 homers last night. Yet Yankees fans aren’t checking to see if he’s retired yet.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
So it's unreasonable for a manager to want a player to do his job?
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes. In 2011, for the Chicago Cubs it clearly is.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Depends on the age of the player.
FIRE JIM HENDRY. Injuries aren't the problem.
by shoemile on Aug 13, 2011 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
and boom goes the dynamite!
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions
It's unreasonable to expect
that Z was capable of doing his job job yesterday after surrendering 5 HRs. That’s why we have relief pitchers, pinch hitters, defensive replacements and pinch runners.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Zambrano only threw 77 pitches yesterday...
including the two to Chipper which got him tossed. Considering he was the reason they had already lost the game by the 5th, it’s not unreasonable to at least want him to get in a few more pitches. If it’s payback for anything, it’s for his deplorable performance.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
So you think Z deserved to stay in the game for punishment?
Players have bad games. But no manager should try to embarrass him at the risk of reducing the team’s chance of winning.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Had nothing to do with punishing him...
It also had nothing to do with what he deserved. His job at that point is to throw pitches… and not at the opposing team. The game was over. Getting a few more outs could mean the difference in having a fresh pitcher tomorrow… even if he has to give up a run or two more in the process. It’s called being a team player and doing your job.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I never tried to defend Z's actions
this is about Quade’s actions leaving him in the game. You are the one who brought up payback. As a manager, would you have paid him back for his terrible outing? As a manager, would you have kept him in the game after 5 HRs? As a manager would you have allowed him to pitch after the first pitch thrown at Chipper?
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Excuse me?
You brought up payback.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
What's the point of trying to find random ass lists to put Zambrano on?
Cut the damn guy and move on. It’s like Cubs management is holding out hope that he will somehow change his personality/become a good pitcher again. It’s never happening so cut his ass.
17'$ h4pp3n1n9!?!?!?
I think the point is, the team, or more accurately Tom
will NOT eat this contract. At least not all of it. I would imagine Jim will be burning up the phones for the next few weeks trying to get ANY trade done before the waiver deadline.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Who would take him at this point?
I can’t imagine a contender would want to disrupt the clubhouse chemistry this late in the season by adding a headcase, and anyone else could just wait until the winter to pick him up.
FIRE JIM HENDRY. Injuries aren't the problem.
GM's buy into the "change of scenery" argument all the time
I’m not saying it’s gonna be a good trade. We’ll get less back than in the Sosa deal, but he’s gotta try.
I think if he’s still a Cub come winter, there’s a 60-40 chance he’ll be a cub in 2012.
Of course I’m basing a lot of that on my complete distrust for this front office.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I just can't imagine any GM (other than Hendry) being dumb enough
To trade for a guy coming off the DQ list in mid September for the stretch run.
FIRE JIM HENDRY. Injuries aren't the problem.
Well I can't either
But I can’t be a fan of this team anymore if they don’t start doing SOMETHING right.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I mean rooting for the Bengals is bad enough.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
And I don't know if anybody has mentioned this yet, but whatever
After Carlos Zambrano was ejected from Friday’s game, Cubs left fielder Alfonso Soriano went into the team’s clubhouse and “went off” on Zambrano, a source told CBSSports.com.
Zambrano was very quiet and didn’t really say much after being ejected. Then, as soon as Soriano stopped yelling at him in Spanish, Zambrano packed his bag, took the nameplate from his locker and left, the source said.
Soriano, like Zambrano, is signed to a big-money, long-term deal by the Cubs. However, he’s been criticized for not showing emotions at time, in stark contrast to Zambrano who has often let his emotions get the best of him. Soriano is known to be easy-going and generally well-liked. The fact that it was Soriano that had a problem with Zambrano showed just how fed up Zambrano’s teammates are with the pitcher.
17'$ h4pp3n1n9!?!?!?
Interesting. Thanks for the link. I have a better attitude towards Sori now.
But Sori should be gone. Quade should leave. And so should Hendry.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
As I said earlier
I’d have a better opinion of Sori, if he hadn’t hot dogged it on a double, with his team getting crushed, later in the game
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
...
@CSNMooney: Soriano on Zambrano: “He’s got to think a little bit more. He’s a big man, but I think mentally he’s weak.” #Cubs
by alkappy on Aug 13, 2011 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmn
Soriano is burning down the bridge.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Looks like the players are trying to force management's hand
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I think it was already pretty much forced
Curious how it will go down though, I suppose a buy out is really the only realistic solution (assuming he is definitely not retiring now, which is what his agent is saying).
Well, if it was, they're making sure. I don't recall comments like this last year
I think they’re beyond fed up
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know why they wouldn't just do that today
Unless they’re hoping to negotiate a smaller buyout. But I would think the union would throw a hissy if Zambrano wasn’t given every dollar he was owed
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
not saying this will definitely happen...
…but if Z somehow ends up on the White Sox then get ready to hear him go off on the Cubs organization. Maybe more than once.
I'm ok with that.
Number one, eff him.
Number two, I’d like for SOMEONE to start bringing the light to the cockroaches that is this front office.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly
Z going to the White Sox would be like a dream come true!
by bluekoolaide on Aug 13, 2011 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I doubt ...
… Zambrano is coming to the Sox, in fact I’d be very, very surprised if that happened. Unless Zambrano is traded, he’s the property of the Cubs until the contract expires, even if he retires.
Zambrano is an emotional powder keg on the field, in the heat of the moment, but I’ve found he very thoughtful in interviews outside of that arena.
I can’t really see how the Cubs wronged him. One thing though, they’ve been with some of his past transgressions but honestly most (if not all) teams will put up with that stuff when you’re doing well. Slip in performance then those same things get you gone. (That’s true in baseball and outside of it in my experience.)
I wish Zambrano the best, wherever he goes and I hope he finds peace and contentment.
“One thing though, they’ve been tolerant with some of his past transgressions but honestly most (if not all) teams will put up with that stuff when you’re doing well.”
They've been tolerant to the point of enabling
In a sense, they did him wrong there. But that goes back years.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions
True, but...
… would any team have handled it differently? I don’t doubt that some might have stepped in a bit earlier but when you have that talent combined with a (guaranteed) high salary most organizations will do that.
Oh, I think the Braves would have handled it differently.
Probably the Yankees, too.
I’m not naive enough to fail to realize superstars get their own rules in life as well as sports, but the Cubs seem to take it to a new level with guys like Zambrano and Sosa. Some fans, too — I’m not taking any pleasure from what happened, but I was one of the ones asking for this nonsense to get straightened out years ago. But we were shouted down because “he’s like, really good, you know”.
Like you, I wish him well. But I also wish it away from the Chicago National League Ball Club.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow...
Calling another player mentally weak seems to be a “your momma” level of statement.
The vets learned from the Bradley situation and are making their stand right now. I would imagine that taking the nameplate off the locker while the game was still in progress was the ultimate in unforgivable insults.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 13, 2011 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
O SNIZZAP
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2011 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
And ANOTHER...
CSNMooney Patrick Mooney
Dempster on Big Z: "The guys in here are pretty upbeat today. He’s made his bed. He’s got to sleep in it."
Yeah. They are definitely trying to make sure he's done as a Cub.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I really don't think they have an agenda
But I think there has definitely been some pent up frustration with him that they’re happy to finally let out.
I think it's both.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
wow, they're done with him
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
They were a lot more circumspect with the Bradley situation
so, yeah, I think they are totally done with him.
You stinks, Carlos Zambrano!
if theres one thing i like about Soriano
Is that he knows exactly what to say to the media, the fans, and he doesn’t let the pressure from the media and fans bother him….in public at least….he always has a smile…no.matter what happens on the field.
Maybe he’s seasoned like that coming from the Yankees and the fans and media over there, which is far worse…
But I guess when the money is pouring in…..I’d smile too….
Two Words: Salty Saltwell
by Unclemike on Aug 13, 2011 4:25 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Ladies and gentlemen. Your 2011 Chicago Cubs.
I’ve been a fan for a long, long time. But this season reminds me of a Greek tragedy. Wow. Pathetic is the word.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
BTW, we are up to 1127 comments on this thread. Is this a new record?
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
wow is that true?
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep...
as long as they do it as a straight per month average of what he’s owed this year.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions
that seems like it could go a long way in this club
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Or pad Tom's wallet nicely
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
book that overseas trip Tommy!!!! see ya
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok, as an addendum to my earlier post about a name for my new Kansas City Chiefs blog....
Which would be better?
Chief’s Corner
or
The Killer C’s (meaning Chiefs, Cassel and Charles)
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
The Killer C's....it's more you....has an edge to it :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm going to take that as a compliment :)
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
wrong!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Like the second one...
but i’d stay away from using killer anything.
The first one is quality.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought about that, but the Astros did have the Killer B's
Bagwell, Biggio and Bell.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree...
but Killer Bees are also an actual living thing… and things were less PC then.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
true
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem
by Nunyabidness on Aug 13, 2011 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions
first one sounds predictable for lack of a better word....which blog would you go to, Chiefs Corner or The Killer C's?
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't go to either...
since I’m not a Chiefs’ fan. But if I were a Chiefs’ fan, I’d have no problem going to something with Chiefs in the title.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
First one.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2011 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
argh
Please somebody up there induce Hendry and Ricketts into a 5 year coma…..
What organization do u know only suspends players without pay, rather than release that player…..oh yeah the laughingstock Cubs….
More proof that Ricketts cases more about money, instead of integrity, and he doesn’t care about putting a consistent winning product….
I think this right here is the last straw in terms of fans patience for the owner…..he just doesn’t care about winning as long as the seats are being filled close to sell-out capacity….
What an embarrassing time to be a Cubs fan…
Two Words: Salty Saltwell
by Unclemike on Aug 13, 2011 4:18 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Suspend…meaning after the player just walks out on the team without notification….
Two Words: Salty Saltwell
by Unclemike on Aug 13, 2011 4:20 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
SWL texted me last night:
SWL: Dude, Z went off the reservation again. Says he is retiring.
Dan: I'm at a 2-day bachelor party dont know don't care
SWL: Senor Gato got banned
Dan: Link link
I find SG much, much more interesting than Zambrano.
I’d like to take this time to thank some people during my SenorGato banning campaign. First, I’d like to thank the guy that wrote the SBNation banning code. Second, I’d like to thank myself for being awesome. And finally, I’d like to thank my fellow Badger, Shanghai, for helping send that idiot away. Can somebody show me all these Twitter feeds? I really want to laugh at them.
Dan
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
twitter accounts got nuked
I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.
by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2011 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
they were really filthy/nasty stuff!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 13, 2011 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks, Dan. It was a pleasure working with you.
I’m sure we can collaborate on something else in the future. Hopefully something more pleasant.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Updated on Tribune.com
Hendry also alluded to some problems with Zambrano that have not been made public.
“We’ve had other instances of him not being the teammates I would aspire him to be,” he said. “And certainly not all of that is public. You can tell by the sanction we’re trying to enforer that it’s not tolerated, and it’s not right for the other 24. It’s just totally uncalled for.”
by jerry morales rules on Aug 13, 2011 6:09 PM CDT reply actions
Damnit...
they needed to keep their mouth shut and let things play through. Now, it seems like the Cubs should have known and been dealing with these issues and shouldn’t be overreacting now to a situation they helped foster. This should have come out at a later time rather than the Cubs trying to use pretty useless comments to cover their ass.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Come on, you know it's SOP
Plummet a player’s value as much as possible, THEN try to trade him.
See: Sosa, Sammy; Bradley, Milton.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions
This
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Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 13, 2011 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions
you have obviously forgotten about the great value we got for sosa and gameboard!
I'm a sad panda.
by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2011 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Why a panda for the new avatar?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions
And kinda puckish, too?
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2011 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Interesting comment from Jon Heyman...
who himself is rarely interesting.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
If we can get anything positive out of this
Maybe it’s that we can finally get a young arm such as Coleman up and focus on the future. Not the past (Zambrano)
Count me among the many who want Zambrano gone.
I’ve loathed Zambrano since the first blowup in 2007. I admit a large part of it was personal since I was and still am a fan of Michael Barrett (and please no one waste your keystrokes chiding me for that!), but it killed me that everyone in Cubs fandom took Zambrano’s side just because he was so valuable to the team at that point; no one should be able to get away with the things he’s done. So I’ve been silently fuming for the last few years while almost every other Cubs fan has put up with his foolishness just for the pitching, and even that hasn’t always been worth it.
Now it sounds like everyone else in the organization has finally come to their senses about him and realized there’s no fixing him, at least the Cubs can’t, and they need to cut ties. To which I say, hallelujah. I hope they can successfully fight off the MLBPA and cut him NFL style after the 30 day disqualification.
A little late to the party
Was gone all weekend, but I have to agree with the consensus. This latest blowup by Z is the last straw, and he has to go.
It’s more sad than anything else, really.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 15, 2011 1:54 PM CDT reply actions
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