Jim Hendry Fired; Cubs Beat Cardinals. Not Cause And Effect!
So. Anything happen in Cubs World today?
The firing of GM Jim Hendry completely overshadowed one of the better games of the year, a 5-4 Cubs win over the Cardinals in 10 innings. I'll get to some comments about Hendry and his possible successors (it's clear that it won't be Randy Bush, as Tom Ricketts said the next GM will be from outside the organization) after the jump.
First, a few comments about a very entertaining afternoon at Wrigley Field, in front of 42,343 (who also enjoyed some jets from the Chicago Air & Water Show buzzing the park). That was noted as the largest crowd since Opening Day 1978, and there's a story there, too. That was the last Opening Day that bleacher tickets were sold on the day of the game. 3,000 people were in line at 8 a.m. that day and they started scaling the walls, so the park was opened at that time. 45,777 paid that day. By the next year, the Chicago Fire Department came in and limited the number of tickets the Cubs could sell for any game -- you can still see the limits posted inside Wrigley, near the main entrance. Starting in 1979, Opening Day bleachers were sold in advance, and all bleachers were by 1985.
As far as the game was concerned, Randy Wells threw a credible seven innings, making just two mistake pitches, which were crushed for home runs by Yadier Molina (that one looked like it needed a bit of wind help) and David Freese, who has become a Cub-killer when healthy (5-for-16 vs. the Cubs this year, but with a double, three HR and seven RBI).
The Cubs came back from 3-0 and 4-1 deficits; Darwin Barney hit his second HR of the year and then tripled past a diving Lance Berkman in right field; he scored on another triple to make it 4-3 and the Cubs tied it in the eighth.
A bit of bad baserunning by Tony Campana -- who was totally deked by Ryan Theriot on a ball that wasn't even in the infield, after Theriot made an error allowing Campana to reach -- took the Cubs out of a possible game-winning opportunity in the ninth, but Carlos Marmol and Sean Marshall were both outstanding today and in the 10th, Marlon Byrd had his first sacrifice bunt as a Cub. In fact, that was his first sac bunt since 2008, after Geovany Soto singled. Tyler Colvin looked bad on the first two pitches of his at-bat off Octavio Dotel, but then lined a single up the middle to win it.
An eventful day at the ballpark -- always nice to beat the Cardinals -- and even bigger events happened before the game started. Follow me past the jump for more on the firing of Jim Hendry.
Many things have been revealed about the dismissal of Jim Hendry as GM of the Cubs, including the fact that he was told on July 22, but was asked to stay on through the trading deadline and signings of draft picks. Why, then, announce this now instead of at the end of the season? I suppose it's because this way, Tom Ricketts -- who will have the new GM report directly to him -- can get the process under way of talking to candidates. The organizational meetings usually take place in mid to late October, so you'd want to have someone in place by then, and announcing this at season's end wouldn't give very much time to hire someone.
The fact that the new GM will come from outside the organization will mean a major change in the way Cubs baseball operations are run. Hendry wasn't just GM for the last nine years -- he had various roles in minor league operations and scouting since 1995. That's 16 years' worth of influence on the Cubs, a very long time in today's baseball world, and the third longest tenure as GM in Cubs history (Jim Gallagher, 1940-49, and John Holland, 1957-75, served longer in the role). It will be very different -- and that, as I wrote just yesterday, is a good thing. Hendry did do a lot of good things for the Cubs, just not enough of them, and sometimes in any business, it is time to make a change and go in a different direction. This is one of those times.
I wish Jim Hendry well. He seems like a real good guy -- someone you'd love to share baseball small talk with, and he has handled this dismissal in a classy way. As most of you know, I defended him for quite a long time. But over the last couple of months, just as Tom Ricketts did, I came to the conclusion that it was time.
Ricketts also said he would highly recommend to whoever his new hire is, that he retain Oneri Fleita as minor league director and Tim Wilken as scouting director. I concur with that. The system has begun to produce good major league players and more are in the pipeline. Many people here have praised this year's draft, both for who Wilken chose and the willingness of the organization to spend money to sign them (as well as spending quite a bit on international signings). This is a good thing, and Wilken in particular has an excellent track record in drafting and helping to build good teams in both Toronto and Tampa Bay. It would be a great thing if a new philosophy could be built from the top with an experienced GM hired, but at the same time, not rip apart a good base that is being built from below.
I did hear a couple of rumors today about possible candidates for the job -- both of whom have been mentioned here before: Brian Cashman of the Yankees and Andrew Friedman of the Rays. Both have had success in their current jobs. The question I'd have about Cashman: how much of his success is due to his work, and how much of it because he's had a virtually unlimited bankroll? Friedman is one of the "young guns" school of GM's; he's 34 years old (35 in November) and has done an excellent job over the last six years in Tampa, bringing the Rays to the World Series in 2008 and keeping them in contention despite having very little money to work with. I'd be happy with either of those men being hired.
Though nothing specific was said about it today, I presume that the dismissal of Hendry also means that Mike Quade will be let go as manager at the end of the season; any new GM would want to bring in his own manager. Or perhaps Ryne Sandberg can be enticed to return, now that Hendry is gone -- it does seem that there was some personal animosity between the two. I'm not saying that Sandberg is the be-all and end-all solution to the manager's spot with the Cubs; his hiring would, at the very least, give a big PR boost to a team that could sorely use it. Could he fail? Sure. But he might also turn into the next Mike Scioscia. It's worth thinking about, anyway.
Interestingly enough, Hendry ended his Cubs tenure with a winning record as GM: 749-748. Of his eight full seasons (2003-10), five of them ended with winning records, three of them in the postseason. That's good -- but obviously, not good enough. And today, oddly enough, was the 162nd game managed by Quade (37 last year, 125 this year). Record: 79-83, which could have been 81-81 if not for those two disastrous blown games in Houston this week.
Onward. And hopefully, upward to the World Series title we have all been waiting for, for far too long.
500 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Nice come back win after the mess up in the 8th
Poor Campana didn’t know what happened. Good fake by the RedBird IF’ers. Castro must have missed the straight steal sign.
Glad to see Soto on the liner to left and finally Colvin gets to make a big play, and that he did.
Hendry as I understand from CTL, knew about the change back on 7/22.
Just win the next game...!
It was scrappy old vs. scrappy new.
As I listened, I thought to myself “Scrappy giveth, scrappy taketh away….”
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
I was going to ask that about Quade but you answered it for me Al
Thought immediately that this could be it for Quade as well with Hendry’s dismissal today. Going to be a VERY interesting offseason for the Cubs.
Oh, and GREAT WIN!
BEAR DOWN!
I think Quade will be fired shortly before the season ends...
In a similar way to how Eric Wedge was fired a couple of years ago by the Indians. The Cubs will announce a couple of days before that he isn’t going to be retained, but they’ll let Quade finish out the season out of respect for him. Like Hendry, Quade seems like a good guy. However, he has shown that he is not the right man to lead the Cubs in 2012 and beyond. He had his chance. He tried. But it’s time for a change and a new skipper in the dugout for next year.
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 19, 2011 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions
What would the point of that be?
They’ll just let him finish the season and then the new GM will announce his choice for replacement.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Very likely. So you think that Quade is definitely gone after the season, Al?
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 20, 2011 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
749-748 for Hendry? That's crazy!
And it took Tyler Colvin to get him over the .500 mark! I think Hendry exiting is a good first step – and yes, he is a “good guy.” If Quade is let go by the new GM, I think Sandberg would be a great choice – as long as there are no better “can’t miss” options out there…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Correct.
Today did not count. Randy Bush is 1-0 as interim GM.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Gotcha - I thought today's game took him over .500
That would have been ironic…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Soooooooooo...
that means it took a furious (i.e. meaningless) Cubs winning streak in August to give Hendry a “winning record.”
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
actually the Cubs
Played very well without a GM. July 22nd till today.
by cozmotaylor123 on Aug 19, 2011 6:28 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
from 2003 to 2011 the Cubs opening day payrolls = about $983 million (I rounded to the nearest million for each year)
So for Hendry’s tenure with the Cubs, they spent about $1.3 million per win.
I have no idea what that means, but I just wanted to know what Hendry’s average $ per win came out to be.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2011 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions
What it means is it's high
For say 90 wins to get into the playoffs, that’s a $117M payroll. Lots of teams below that payroll – some by a lot – win 90 games.
Only the Yankees and RedSox would I say exceed that rate on a regular basis.
Just win the next game...!
I would love the signing of Ryne Sandberg
Didn’t he say he’d be remain open to returning? I would also expect the new GM to try to dump all contracts he thinks is toxic, i.e. Soriano, Pena, maybe Ramirez. I expect the 2012 Cubs to look much different both on the field and in the front office than this year.
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
Of course Ryno would return. He wants to manage in the Bigs
Now I’m sure he’d be even more willing to return
BEAR DOWN!
It would in the very least get Cubs fans excited about the prospects of next season.
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
I fail to see how Pena's contract is toxic.
He’s one of the few I’d WANT to bring back next year. He seems to understand how to bring a winning culture to a team. He’s been there with TB, and he realizes what changes need to be made to change the culture and attitude of this organization. He’s no Pujols or Fielder, but that’s great. He wont be asking for a 6 or 8 year contract, and the Cubs won’t (hopefully) giving them out this offseason to anyone. He’s an affordable stopgap for a few years until we can find someone better, and we won’t blow the bankroll on 1 player (i.e. Pujols) so we can afford to bring more talent to this team, not just one talented individual. We can all agree that Soriano needs to go, and I agree with letting Ramirez go, as well.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 19, 2011 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah because...
I dont like having the most talented team
He’s no Pujols or Fielder, but that’s great.
not really...
but if the most talented people become available you try your darndest to sign them, you dont settle for third.
Yeah, I don't agree at all
Give me above average talent for a middle of the road price (leaving money to spend on other positions of need) rather than paying extreme money for something only a couple of notches better.
The money isn’t free.
You only try and sign them
If it puts your team over the top. This team should’ve learned a hard lesson about long, over-priced contracts, and the last thing I hope they do is sign a player to another one, no matter how great he is. Wasn’t Soriano the best player available when the Cubs gave him this huge contract? I know Soriano is no Pujols, but this team isn’t close to reaching the playoffs, and blowing 30mil a year on 1 player while disregarding our other desperate needs (bullpen, starting rotation, outfield) wouldn’t help us reach the playoffs at all.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 20, 2011 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions
My point being...
You don’t just sign the best player available because you have the most amount of money to spend on them. I’d rather have 2 better starting pitchers, some bullpen help and a new left fielder, and I can guarantee that won’t cost 30mil a year.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 20, 2011 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Pena contract non-toxic
Z’s is and especially Soriano’s. Z has over $20M left, Soriano over $50M.
Dome is already gone, so too would be Rami and at a lesser extent, Grabow. My guesstimate is they saved only about $600k on trading Dome.
Rami’s buyout will cost $2M, Grabow not resigned yields a $4.8M savings.
While Pena has $5M deferred, his $10M overall is far from toxic. Him being a great defencive player and coming around offencively, he’s pretty sound, as well as a good teammate.
Just win the next game...!
PS. It's good to see Tom Ricketts knows when to make the right decision
The firing of Jim Hendry today proved he can make tough decisions as a baseball owner.
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
Jim needed to go
However, I think that he left the organization in better shape than it was when he took over. Overall in the history of the club, I think that you would have to call him a marginal success at least. That said, it was time for him to go. I will appreciate his classiness and willingness to serve the club by staying on through the trading deadline when he knew that his job was gone, though. That was a classy move.
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run FOR Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
Shocked that no one leaked this after a month.
Awesome news on Ricketts comments, I liked what I heard. To Jim Hendry, thanks for all you did for the Cubs. Within all the great wins and trades, you left Dusty witha crappy team, Lou with a crappy last year, and gave Q a crappy team. We have urgency. I think our owner understands that. You took us a long ways, but it was time to move on. I have more confidence in ownership than in a long time.
All I want to leave with is Go Cubs Go…..on to a world series before my 56 year old body dies before a world series.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
by mrcubsfan on Aug 19, 2011 5:48 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Forgot, AWESOME win over Cards!!
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
by mrcubsfan on Aug 19, 2011 5:49 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Ricketts stated that it was between him and Hendry
but I think it started leak out over the last ten days…it is why the vultures in the press were circling.
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
What leaked?
Bruce Miles wrote just yesterday that “all signs point to Hendry being retained”.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I emailed one of the corps of reporters after this PM
Miles wrote that yesterday, which was a mistake, but many in the corps were starting to figure this out as the “source” to Levine on Monday about “premature” was starting to break. Supposedly Ricketts mentioned this at the team meetings as he was starting to ask permission to talk to mentors and possible candidates so if it was not announced today it was going to be a wild fire over the weekend as the press was in for the Card-Cubs game.
I am not going to say whom I talked to but he said, it was becoming obvious once you began to put the veiled statements together.
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
It's like
you write in a different language.
DEJESUS!!!
It's like when you read the same page of a book 5 times...
You read it, but don’t really take anything in or make any sense of it. Except with these I just do it once and move on.
It is going to be weird having a new GM for the team.
We’ve had Hendry for almost a DECADE. Hard to believe, huh?
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
First we get a real SS, now we might get a real GM....
WE COULD EVEN END UP WITH AN HONEST-GOD-REAL ML MANAGER EVENTUALLY!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2011 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Also a real MOL hitter...
and a real TOR starter.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Also a real MOL hitter…
i hear milton bradley’s available
I'm a happy panda.
by jesus christos on Aug 19, 2011 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
He most definitely is.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions
But... we have a few SOL hitters
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
That was a larger crowd than October 2003?
That’s sad.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Less seats in 2003.
No bleacher expansion, bullpen and dugout boxes yet in 2003. Those are another 2,100 or so seats.
Just win the next game...!
Also, there are somewhat fewer seats for playoff games...
… because some seats are taken out for an auxiliary press area.
Lest you think that’s only because Wrigley’s press box is small, they have aux press areas at every single ballpark for playoff games.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I don't believe the Cubs sell SRO for playoff games.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
They do,
and, like all tickets, they’re more expensive than a regular season game.
Come visit me inside Wrigley along the Addison side mezzanine fence straight up from 1st base.
by section229beer on Aug 19, 2011 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Good win.
Good decision by the ownership.
Good luck to Jim Hendry.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
You know what, eg,
that’s entirely fair.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 19, 2011 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Final thoughts on Jim Hendry...
I think Jim should be credited for the successes in 2003, 2007 and 2008. However, the past 3 seasons were not good and, in the end, he took the fall. He leaves the Cubs with class and I sincerely wish him the best of luck in the future. I predict that Hendry will wind up in Baltimore and reunite with MacPhail. Wherever he goes, I hope he learns from his mistakes and builds on his successes.
Going forward, I am optimistic that the best is yet to come for the Chicago Cubs. However, this is just the first step of many in building the Cubs back into a contender and ultimately bringing a World Series championship to Chicago.
I doubt he goes anywhere, his baseball philosophy is dated
Maybe he will end up in an office somewhere, but he should not be a GM. The Cubs are far to anti-sabermetric of an organization. Saber is not the end all of the discussion, but it has to be included. There is a reason that the Cubs organization in the minors and majors and draw the lowest amount of walks. You have to work counts today to win, and it appears as if the focus has been the exact opposite.
Cronyism got him
like a lot of people in business when they get to feeling really scure they hire buddies, not the best person for the job
I believe Hendry will get another baseball job, but not as a GM.
Rumor: he could wind up with the White Sox.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I still think he would make a fine minor league director
especially if’n the GM makes him read The Book or something.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
I don't think...
…that is the best role for Hendry either. I just don’t think he has the skills to oversee the development of talent.
I’ll bet he ends up being a special asst to another GM somewhere, or maybe a scout the GM relies on heavily. He will be best as someone who advises vs someone who has to make the final call.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
He could retire
But after a few months I think he will end up as a consultant or assistant.
by mixandmatch on Aug 20, 2011 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes.
The Cubs still have to pay the rest of his contract.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Hendry...
…is a good dude and I have mentioned that many times before, the guy is very well liked as a person for very good reasons.
One of his problems (IMO), was he was too focused on making friends vs making tough decisions a GM has to make each and every year. He was very concerned about “taking care of people” and some of that thought process went against what was best for the team. Also, he seemed to lack the knack of how to put together the “right pieces” that good GM’s have and his overall leadership in regards to philosophy and leadership, just didn’t lend itself to building a consistant winner, despite having more resources than 90% of the other major league teams.
He should get some credit for the winning seasons, but the losing seasons and all the BS that went on over the years, far overshaddows the playoff teams.
He is a really good guy, but considering he couldn’t build a quality organization after 10 years as GM, 6 years over the minor leagues and all the resoures, will likely preclude him from getting another GM gig with another club. He will land on his feet, but I don’t think it will be as a GM.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Has TJ responded to today's news?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
He's still fapping as we speak.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2011 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
He's floating face down in a pool filled with beer.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
This had to be a rough day for you, huh, alkappy?
by TJ11 on Aug 19, 2011 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Heh..heh!!
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
I am here, but been busy....
An excellent move by Ricketts…….(when have you heard me say that?)
Announcing that they are going outside the organization to get a GM is also a plus.
Now just spend some money and get a good one.
The manager and coaching staff have to go. That is next.
I cant wait to see what a new GM will do to fix this team. For the first time in over a year, I was excited about the Cubs.
Didn't I tell you not to write off the Ricketts? :)
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Have to take issue with this line
Tom Ricketts — who will have the new GM report directly to him — can get the process under way of talking to candidates.
He didn’t have to fire Ricketts to start talking to other candidates. The fact that he did shows that Ricketts remains over his head. He should have had someone ready to take over today. There is no reason this doesn’t happen. Furthermore, I believe the Cubs need to fire Crain Kenny. He should not be involved in baseball decisions for the team. Ricketts claimed today that he didn’t know much about who should take over, his jobs is knowing the business of baseball. Its makes it sound like he hasn’t been keeping an eye on the industry.
Yes I am a Sox fan, but these are just my observations. I would be upset with Ricketts if I were a Cubs fan. He has wasted 2 years, and the future is still not clear. Frankly, with the economy the way it is, I want anything that will generate consumer spending and the Cubs do that.
I'm not sure what you're stewing about?
You wanted to have a new GM today? How? All of the candidates for the position are outside of the organization, currently working for other teams.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
All candidates are currently working for other teams?
That is simply not true, also, there is no reason that a person in a front office could leave his job to become a GM. Most organizations would understand that.
yes, unless you're hoping Ricketts hires someone who's currently out of baseball....
which isn’t necessarily a good thing.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2011 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Even if he wants to hire someone who currently owns a different job title.
It doesn’t matter… they’re currently employed.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
One of Ricketts criteria is someone from a winning organization
You do the math.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
However..
He didn’t have to fire Hendry to start talking to other candidates
You what kind of PR blunder that would be if Ricketts started talking to other candidates behind Hendry’s back and it leaked? Bad, really bad.
Just win the next game...!
He apparently already has
Wasn’t it reported that he talked to someone pretty recently? Also, the fact that this was kept quite for a month is impressive. Shows that they have pretty good control on what goes out to the media
No, I don't believe he has talked to anyone.
If you are referring to the Pat Gillick rumors, those are all false.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
It was reported all over the place, I have never heard them to be false
How are you so sure of this?
But again, my point is that he does not have to fire someone to start talking to other people. This is baseball and its cutthroat.
With all due respect, you are incorrect.
That would be tampering, and other teams don’t look kindly on that.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
no I don't think I am
They came from several different people. David Schuster is closer to the organization than most, including you.
Believe what you want.
However, again, with all due respect, most of the points you made here are simply incorrect.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
For GM?
Likely not, say team Prez? Or Sr. Advisor ala Scotty Bowman, that’s a whoe different ballgame.
Just win the next game...!
Probably not.
Unless he is made team president.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
My thinking?
Ricketts wants Gillick’s help in looking for the new GM.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Possible, I suppose.
But Gillick is working for the Phillies as a consultant. Unless he’s offered the team presidency right now, I can’t imagine that happening.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
The Gillick talk has died down.
Maybe, two months ago, Ricketts sent word — through intermediaries — that he’d like Gillick to help hire a new GM.
Total speculation on my part.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
So, the Gillick rumors were complete crap?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I think
Ricketts had those discussions leaked out to determine Gillick’s thought process without having to talk with him…
Wow.
Sort of like a Vulcan mind meld, only without the touching.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Ricketts:
“My mind to your mind. My thoughts to your thoughts….”
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 19, 2011 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Thats wut i meant
… we need a proven guy like Gillick to be in charge of baseball. Kenny is good at business stuff but he doesnt seem like he know baseball. All the cubs have to do is ask phillies if they can interview him.
According to Gillick himself
He mentioned on CSN Philly that he has spoken to know one about new work and is quite happy with the arrangement he has with the Phillies.
Both men in this "discussion"...
… have said publicly they have never spoken to each other.
Yet, the belief they have done so persists.
Why is this?
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Why?
Because folks want to believe it. They want to believe it because they think he would play a big part in leading the Cubs to the promised land.
The thinking he’d really help part is OK. It’s just that there doesn’t appear to by any substance in the rumour.
Just win the next game...!
Correct.
From what I have heard, there is no substance to this rumor whatsoever.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
It is quite plausible
to think that someone close to Ricketts spoke to someone close to Gillick. It happens all the time, trying to measure any level of interest. But really, who cares now.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Sure, it's possible, it just doesn't seem very probable
given the statements made more recently.
Maybe something will heat up after the season. For now, it seems like a long shot.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2011 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought Gillick
would have been a quality choice for Prez.
Notice that the parties involved never mentioned that they didn’t speak with anyone on the other side, only that they hadn’t spoken directly. That’s there cover if they get caught. It’s not a lie, merely an acceptable deception.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
If the team president
role is going to be strictly business, as Ricketts suggested, then there really isn’t a role for Gillick, unless he wants to sign on as Rickett’s consigliere. If Ricketts is able to hire one of baseball’s top minds to be GM, he might not be needed in that role.
On the other hand, if they bring in someone like Friedman who has been nothing but successful in Tampa, it might be useful to both him and Ricketts to have someone there as an advisor who has had success in a larger market.
DEJESUS!!!
You're kind of contradicting yourself.
If you hire a GM who has already had success without resources, why would he need an advisor?
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
It doesn't make sense to hire Gillick now...
Because if the Cubs hired him as club president, he would presumably be the one to hire the new GM. That takes time. And then they’ve got to search for a manager. I believe that Sandberg is definitely on the Cubs’ radar and they don’t want to lose him twice. He is going to be a hot commodity for a few teams this offseason looking for a new manager. I’m not saying that Ryno is a slam dunk with the Cubs next year, but I definitely think his chances of being hired went up exponentially now that Hendry is out of the picture.
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 20, 2011 6:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Tamporing ...
unless it’s someone not under contract anywhere, then it’d just be tacky and unprofessional.
Just win the next game...!
Or Tempuring...
which would just be crispy and delicious.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2011 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Or tempering...
which is what the Cubs front office structure & the Wrigley physical structure could both use.
Just win the next game...!
Tamponning?
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
by eths on Aug 20, 2011 4:42 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Have you been paying attention at all? Ricketts has stated on more than one occasion that Kenny has nothing to do with the baseball side of the organization...
Kenny’s dumbassery all happened under the Trib/Zell ownership.
And as for knowing “who should take over”, he can’t frickin’ talk to other team’s employees without their permission AND he’d have to wait until after the season is over anyway.
We all pretty much agree that he’s wasted alot of time getting to this spot, but don’t try and knock him for at least GETTING to the place he should be.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2011 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I really hope that when it's all said and done... Krenny is no longer part of the organization
Or at the very least… physically removed from the baseball side of things. And yes, I mean physically removed. Move his office away from all of the baseball people. He thinks he’s a baseball person. He’s not.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I've never seen any actual quote form Kenny about the baseball side of things...
come to think of it…other than his apology about the priest and water in the dugout, I’ve never heard about ANY quote on the team from Kenny.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2011 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions
He's often seen on the field... in the dugout... and even has his own uniform
He certainly tries to have an influence on baseball decisions, as he pokes his nose where it shouldn’t be.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Wait, what?
When was the last time he was seen in the dugout?
His own UNIFORM? When did you see that? Proof, please.
Sorry, you’re incorrect. Kenney has zero input on the baseball side and will have even less now.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
They discussed this on the radio today.
And said he had his own uniform made.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
SO FREAKING WHAT?
If you or I were the president of the Chicago Cubs, we’d do the same thing.
And you’re lying if you pretend you wouldn’t. I
I would wear it every evening around my house and slide headfirst into the kitchen at dinner time, and also to Soup Club.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2011 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I hope you'd have some sand in the kitchen.
Otherwise you’d hurt yourself sliding every day.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Only the first week or so would hurt, I'd eventually build up a nice chest callous.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2011 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Shake it off
Go see the trainer and get a cortisone shot.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Piggyback a Lidocaine dose
for that immediate relief so no dirt would have to be rubbed on it.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2011 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you're making too much out of that.
Kenney has had little influence on the baseball side since that dugout priest in 2008. And will have even less now. Let’s move on, shall we?
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Like I said... they've been discussing it on the radio all day long
And have been talking about how he wants/tries to be involved in baseball decisions. Whether they’re misinformed or not… every different radio personality has been saying the same things.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Every single columnist has been saying Hendry was probably staying.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2011 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah... I know, I know.
Our columnists are wrong most of the time on tons of stuff. In fact, for being such a huge media market and a great sports town… we have, in my view, some of the worst sports journalism in the country.
But, just repeating what I heard today.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Shouldn't believe everything you hear
on the radio.
Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the ground each morning the devil says, "OH CRAP, SHE'S UP"!
Agreed.
I don’t believe Katy Perry did half the things she claims to have done last Friday night.
"Sometimes you eat the bar and sometimes..."
Next you you'll say the Internet is wrong, the Tooth Fairy is not a fairy, Santa Claus lived in Turkey, the Great Pumpkin...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
by eths on Aug 20, 2011 4:47 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Every organization and company needs a token moron.
Leave little Kenney alone!!!!
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
...token moran...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
by eths on Aug 20, 2011 4:49 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
You cannot just say
“Those rumors are not true, because I know so”
I know you like to talk about your sources as rock solid, I have seen how you handle disagreement. Anyways I made my point and I will leave it at that. Again, there is no reason that you have to fire someone to talk to other candidates.
So I think this assumption you made is wrong:
I suppose it’s because this way, Tom Ricketts — who will have the new GM report directly to him — can get the process under way of talking to candidates.
Not trying to go off topic, but here are several reports about the Cubs talking to Gillick. David Schuster and Ken Rosenthal have been around for a long time and do not just make things up. I am not saying this to offend you, but I would put more faith in them. You basically said “Those are rumors and they are false” and defending it by basically saying “I just know they are”. That is not good enough IMO.
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/07/19/schuster-pat-gillick-to-the-cubs/
http://chicagocubsonline.com/archives/2011/07/cubsrumors72011.php
by 815Sox on Aug 19, 2011 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Talking to Gillick does not equal inquiring for a new GM.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Other than the fact that, you know, both Ricketts and Gillick have both denied that they've talked...
you might be right!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2011 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Regardless of what you post on those links...
…. they’re false. The Cubs have never spoken to Pat Gillick.
Believe what you want, but it has never happened.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Have they communicated with him through intermediaries?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
What would the point of that be?
Seriously.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Well, as I posted above ...
it’s possible that Ricketts wanted to gauge Gillick’s interest in helping the Cubs hire a new GM — or maybe become team president.
Granted, that’s speculation. But the fact that there’s been no direct contact doesn’t mean there hasn’t been any contact.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Pat Gillick works for another team.
I can’t imagine the Phillies would have allowed that kind of contact, even indirectly.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Yes, Ricketts poked him on Facebook.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2011 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Talk a bout clueless...
…. even if Hendry got the word July 22, NO ONE would talk to Ricketts about the job because everyone else in baseball still thought Hendry was in it. Baseball etiquette, not to mention plain courtesy to Hendry, would dictate no one would to talk Ricketts about a job someone else already has. Moreover, doing that would harm Hendry’s ability to do anything because people would know he’s a lame duck. There was no way Ricketts could talk to anyone about Hencry’s job until the vacancy was announced. It simply just isn’t done, and to insist otherwise is ignorant.
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie
That's just not true
It happens all the time. When a business is about to make a major change in personnel, that company sends trusted intermediaries out to speak with others to gather information about and from people who can be part of a transition link.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Just imagine if that happened to the Cubs
Like they need more problems…
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2011 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Asserting isn't proving
LaRussa and Reinsdorf recently had dinner together. Was that tampering? Conversations take place all the time which skirt the rule and are legal. It isn’t illegal and to suggest they are just isn’t factual.
Under the Tampering Rule 3(k) Gillick isn’t even a covered type employee.
(k) TAMPERING. To preserve discipline and competition, and to prevent the enticement of players, coaches, managers and umpires, there shall be no negotiations or dealings respecting employment, either present or prospective, between any player, coach or manager and any Major or Minor League Club other than the Club with which the player is under contract, or acceptance of terms, or by which the player is reserved or which has the player on its Negotiation List, or between any umpire and any baseball employer other than the baseball employer with which the umpire is under contract, or acceptance of terms, unless the Club or baseball employer with which the person is connected shall have, in writing, expressly authorized such negotiations or dealings prior to their commencement.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Clubs MUST receive permission to talk to front office employees...
… if they are under contract by another team, even if their contract expires at the end of the year.
This is why you hear things like, “The Red Sox wont give the Cubs permission to talk to Epstein for their GM position.” If the Cubs tried to talk with Epstein anyway, they could definitely be in trouble for tampering.
Please note
The Tampering rule applies to
players, coaches, managers and umpires. Gillick is none of these.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
He does absolutely nothing with baseball ops.
ZERO, NONE, NADA. Move on from the attacking Kenney for baseball decisions, he runs the business side of things – marketing, etc.
Now, that doesn’t mean I think he’s great at his job, but to attack him for things he’s clearly not involved in is ridiculous.
I didn't say he had much of any role in baseball ops
Zero on baseball ops, or limited
He doesn’t do the biz part well either. He had a big role in the renovations project and botched it. Going after state money with that horrible proposal in this economy would simply be laughable if it were not so sad.
Just win the next game...!
Crain shouldn't be there at all
Ricketts has admitted that he is not good at “being a jerk”, basically he cannot yell at people and be upset with them. If you think Crain has not been sitting in meetings dealing with the baseball side of things I don’t know what to tell you.
First of all, it's "Crane Kenney", not "Crain Kenny".
Second, the fact that the new GM will report directly to Tom Ricketts, shows that Kenney will be completely out of the baseball operation and focused solely on business operations.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
alright so I misspelled it
But him “reporting directly to the Ricketts” does not mean that Ricketts will not listen to Kenney. I don’t think one can assume that someone like Kenney is just going to sit on the sidelines
I think you're making a lot of assumptions which are false.
Crane Kenney works for Tom Ricketts, not the other way around.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
You seem to know so much about the interpersonal workings of Crane Kenney....
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2011 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Because if he wants to keep his job,
That’s how he will have to work from now on.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 19, 2011 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess we will see than
whatever happens, I always find the business side of baseball to be pretty entertaining. I don’t have that much invested into this because like I said I am not a Cubs fan. But I do want Chicago and the State to do well and the Cubs generate consumer spending which creates jobs.
Have a good day guys.
Thanks for dropping by.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
by eths on Aug 20, 2011 4:53 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
WOW
is it that hard to comprehend that the Cubs might want the expert in their business operations in on some baseball meetings?
This is the part where I ask you for any proof or evidence of your claim that Kenny (under Ricketts ownership) is involved in baseball (players/contracts/drafts/rosters/on-field) stuff...
and then you ignore the question and
a) insult me
b) move the goal posts
c) continue making the same claim
d) all of the above
e) buy me a pizza
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2011 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Switch the locations of "D" and "E" in that list.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 19, 2011 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I pizza would be tasty...
especially chicago-style. Oh man, I could go for one of those right now.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh gosh,
Now I have a taste for an authentic Chicago Deep Dish.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 19, 2011 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd rather head to a Giordano's,
But I’m not in the Chicago area right now….
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 19, 2011 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Try Pequods...not the one in Chicago but the one in...
..Morton Grove.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
There's more than one? I only know the one on Clybourn... LOVE IT
Burnt parm crust is delicious.
The one in Morton is the original
…Burts Place is also in Morton and he was I believe one of the founders of Pequods. I’d stick with Pequods though, you’re right on about the crust.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Aug 20, 2011 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions
C) Geno's East
D)Uno’s
E) Anything from Chicago, since it’s all better than the premium available anywhere else.
F) All of the above.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Over here,
I’ve only got an Uno’s.
They’re okay.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 19, 2011 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
i've got none.
seattle has not one decent pizza place anywhere. it’s so sad i can’t even reach my finger over to use the shift key to capitalize.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Malnati's is only 2 miles away
We got used to the short trip when they opened out here and like their deep dish. Thin crust? That’d be Moretti’s, also a couple miles away.
Hope you can find something decent by you….
Just win the next game...!
They're good too
You ever try Moretti’s? Especially dine-in? If not, try ’em. VERY good.
The Lake in the Hills location by me is great. I do miss the old place, Govnor’s. Great Microbrews but the place just didn’t draw enough.
Just win the next game...!
Never tried em, I live in Wheaton so I'm a ways from the nearest one.
I work in the loop though, so may have to make my way over to the West Loop location.
If you like Rosati's you'll like Moretti's
Moretti’s reminds me of a place that used to be in (near) Rolling Meadows called Down the Hatch. They had this thin crust “Titanic” that rivaled any thin crust I had. But they’ve been gone 10+ years.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2011 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Giuseppe's in des Plaines is the best thin crust on earth
… they were called Nicks back in the day but when the dad died his daughter renamed it after their grandpa. The pizzas are really big and tasty but i admit the service is kinda slow sometimes but the pizza keeps me coming back. I like it better than deep dish pies!
No relation to the Nick's Pizza & Pub in Crystal Lake ...
…at Pyott & Virginia? They have a pretty good thin crust too.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 20, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
no Giuseppe's is a small time family owned hole in the wall
… its been there over 30 years and i still call it Nicks. They put tons of cheese on the pizza and the sausage and bell peppers are always really fresh. I always order the biggest one they got and take the leftovers home. lol Try it, i guarantee u love it!
You’re close to me probably then since I’m in action Ridge.
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
by puckishcubsfan on Aug 19, 2011 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Park Ridge? Right?
I live just South of Crystal Lake.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2011 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions
You really have to laugh
at a guy who has AJ as his avatar.
Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the ground each morning the devil says, "OH CRAP, SHE'S UP"!
You're saying Ricketts should take lessons from Hawk Harrelson, Steve Stone, or AJ Pierzynski
When it comes to being a jerk.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 20, 2011 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions
No kidding.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 20, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
He's a Sox fan
We shouldn’t expect him to be able to formulate actual thoughts. I’m personally impressed that he can speak in complete sentences.
Excuse me Kenny's dumbassery continues in full bloom
Who exactly supervises tickets, marketing, PR? This is the guy who totally fumbled the ball on everything from ticket sales policy ( Rain checks to crappy mini packs, high and confusing pricing) to a blundering attempt to get state funds. If Hendry has to take the fall for the mess on the field, Kenny should take it for the mess off the field.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 19, 2011 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
If he admits to the 40 man roster blunder, will you pipe down?
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie
The whole string was about the fact that Crane has zero impact on baseball ops...
You don’t need to change the whole subject to fit your agenda.
So you are telling me BeerCub was saying that Kenny HAD influence
on the roster under Zell/ Tribune but now he doesn’t? I ask because I was responding very specifically to the claim that Kenney basically did dumb things then but not now so unless the dumbass things he did then involved the roster I am pretty confused.
It is pretty clear BeerCub thinks Kenney has done nothing wrong and should be retained and I hold him very much responsible for massive mistakes in running of the off field operation
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 19, 2011 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry meant SWL but I believe you hold the same position
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 19, 2011 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Jessica...
… with all due respect, you are focused on the wrong thing today.
Yes, some of the business decisions, tickets, marketing, etc. have been made wrongly made this year.
Why don’t we see if some of those things change this offseason before we bitch further?
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
by Al Yellon on Aug 19, 2011 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
We need to focus on the off field issues too
Kenny was the guy in charge , why should he get a pass on the house cleaning.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 19, 2011 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Because this isn't about that.
I’m willing to wait and see if they fix those.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
It is about everything Al
You need a well run organization period.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 20, 2011 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Of course.
Right now, I’m focused on the baseball side. So is the team.
Yes, there are other things to be fixed. As I said, I’m willing to wait and see if they fix them this winter.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
She has a point, Al
while the whole GM thing is fresh and that is the hot topic right now, she’s just looking ahead right away.
I hope too there will be other things that need to be fixed as you cite and hope really that if Ricketts is still going to speak about this next week, it’ll include other folks “stepping down”.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 20, 2011 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
I think the "statement" that Tom Ricketts was rumored to make...
… was made yesterday.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
You may get your wish on Kenney
and that may even happen during a Ricketts press conf next week – if that’s still on – but don’t hold your breath. Don’t know why but I think he’s got a Teflon coating.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2011 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Pretty much
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 19, 2011 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't want to speak for BeerCub...
But I took it as him saying that Kenny was part of dumb baseball decisions under Zell/Trib, but that changed under the Ricketts.
No one except for you has discussed his ability or lack there of on the business side of things as far as I can tell.
It may be semantics but that does not make a lot of sense to me
Kenney was involved in personal decisions with Zell & Trib, but not the Ricketts?
Anyone got any info on that. I generally assume his imput on decisions was more along the lines of sign anyone you think will put fannies in the seats. I know a lot of the thread was basically explaining he is not involved in on field operations, but I took the “dumbass” bit as implying he used to be bad, but now he is fine. In general I am pretty struck by the number of defenders he has here. I feel sorry for Hendry and Quade and real baseball people who give their heart and soul even if they are not getting it done. On the other hand I consider Kenny a glad handing, brown noser who found a cushy job and kept it without any background not only in baseball but as far as I can tell nothing much in marketing, public relations etc. I have watched is disbelief as all the good work John McDonough did has been virtually destroyed in less than 4 years.
PS Al I want to ALWAYS remember I was on my best behavior and said nothing when he came over to chat in Boston.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 20, 2011 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes, that's correct.
You have no doubt noticed that Kenney was front and center under Tribune, holding press conferences, doing the priest in the dugout thing, hanging out in the clubhouse, etc.
When was the last time you saw that? In fact, when was the last time you saw him at all? He was NOT at the news conference yesterday, he made no statement, etc.
He is NOT involved in baseball decisions. It was made clear that the new GM will report directly to Tom Ricketts. When you have a team president, that is NOT the normal chain of command. That was a direct statement that Kenney is not involved in baseball decisions.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I am getting awfully confused here
Are you saying you think under the Trib, Kenny was directly involved in player personal decisions? I mean great that he is not a press conference and not bringing in priests, but he is still the president of an organization that has absolutely sucked at nearly every function off the field beyond raising prices. I can’t imagine a starker difference than McDonough & Kenny. We all speculate if Sandberg had been hired over Quade would it have made a significant difference, but I can’t imagine anyone who thinks if McDonough had stayed president a lot of off field issues would have been much, much better.
While it may seem a small issue overall Al , you have understandably ranted about the insane rain out policy, and this is EXACTLY the kind of thing happening on Kenny’s watch that he IS responsible for. The alienation of the loyal fan base is about more than a bad team.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 20, 2011 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions
"Directly" involved?
No.
Off the field issues, absolutely I agree with you. Again, I can give them this winter to fix some of them.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I think he wasted...
…2 years as well, but we can only hope he learned from that.
In regards to having someone to step in today, that is not a realistic expectation. I’m sure (at least I hope), Ricketts has been doing behind the scenes work to assemble a list of names he would like to target upon seasons end. With that being the cast, the list of guys he wants are likely employed right now and won’t be available until seasons end.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I would not only like to see Quade go, but also Riggins.
Very inexperienced coaching staff. I really would like to see Sandberg as manager, and Maddux as the pitching coach. Although those are very unlikely, I would really like to see Trammel brought back to be the bench coach. I think if he were here this year things may have been a little different. Probably still a losing record, but probably a little better than it has been. The Cubs need to kind of do what Arizona has done. If the Cubs pick up Sandberg how is that any different than what Arizona has done with Gibson?
It'll happen
I would not only like to see Quade go, but also Riggins.
Because a new GM will want his own manager and a manager will want his own staff. Patience please.
There is a LOT of work to do at Clark & Addison.
Just win the next game...!
A new manager will certainly be allowed to hire his own coaching staff.
Greg Maddux will not be pitching coach. He doesn’t want the day-to-day grind.
He and Hendry were close. It would be nice if Tom Ricketts could talk Maddux into staying as a consultant. Otherwise we are likely going to lose him to another team.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I would hate to lose Maddux...
But the Cubs had to dismiss Hendry and if Maddux leaves as a result of it, that’s an unfortunate reality. I have nothing but respect for Maddux and if it were up to me I’d interview him for the GM job. It doesn’t look like that’s going to happen, though, so wherever he goes I wish him the best. Hopefully he stays with the Cubs.
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 19, 2011 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions
what has Maddux really done for the team in his role?
… judging by the cubs record and mediocre pitching it doesnt look like he has done very much to help the team win.
I'm not sure we can say how much he has or hasn't done for this team,
… but I tend to think not a whole lot. If he doesn’t want the day to day grind, I’m not so sure there’s much he could have done either way. I’m guessing he’s mostly just a guy that hangs out once in awhile and makes the organization look good for having him on staff.
Right
I never hear anything about Maddux except that he chats with young pitchers some times. I love Greg Maddux and i think he is one of the best pitchers ever but it just doesnt seem like he does a whole lot, maybe i am wrong tho.
Um what exactly would you expect to hear about him?
The guy is ridiculously low key. Needless to say I do what I can to follow what little crumbs are dropped. Most of his time has been spend visiting the minor league teams and while he does enjoy helping out players, he has mainly been their to evaluate them. He has been involved all the organizational meetings .
I don’t think there is any question that having Maddux in your organization helps. I dream someday that he will take some active role in running the team, but doubt it. He once said that a perfect job for him would be a bench coach which makes a lot of sense but again even when his children are out of the house I don’t see happening.
Obviously the Cubs could not keep Hendry , just to keep Maddux, but they should make every effort to keep him.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 19, 2011 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions
It certainly hasn't helped this year...just sayin'
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
No kidding
but short of him going into training and taking over was Cashner went down, not much he could do.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 19, 2011 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree...not much talent to work with either.
I would however like to see what he could do with Cashner.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Aug 20, 2011 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions
like i said, wut good has he done?
… this team is a total flop all the way from the owners down to the ticket people. ur obviously a Maddux fan and so am I but wut is the big deal about having him?? Its like Hank Aaron working for the Braves and Joe morgan with the Reds, its nice to have their names with the team but it doesnt seem like they do much to help the team win.
Maddux is not some former star figure head
which is exactly WHY you don’t hear much about him. He is out working in the boonies as it were not glad handing the press or fans. If Maddux were to leave he could get a job with virtually and club in baseball and that you tell you something about his value.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 20, 2011 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
It would be par for the Greg Maddux course
to spend a short time with the Cubs then go on to help another team fulfill their World Series aspirations.
Then the Cubs will throw Maddux a ticker-tape parade down LaSalle for some unknown reason.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 19, 2011 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually that would not be par for the course
Maddux does NOT like to move around which is good in this case. He did not want to leave the Cubs and he did not want to leave the Braves.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 19, 2011 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions
But the money chased him away.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Not sure what you mean by that
But he was the guy who took 5 million LESS ( back when that was real money) to play for Braves over the Cubs. Please let’s not go over how the Cubs messed up Maddux in 92. It would be easier to take if it were just about money.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 19, 2011 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions
It's possible.
Though today’s parting seems about as amicable as possible. There might be another team that Maddux would rather work for now that Hendry is gone — but I don’t think Maddux will quit out of anger or as a way to show his loyalty to Hendry.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Um I am sure it will shock to know I have given that a lot of thought
I think he is very unlikely to leave for an organization he has no ties with, though it is possible. Two things in the Cubs favor are that the Dodgers are dysfunctional and Kevin Towers is gone from he Padres BUT the bad news on that is that Towers is now with Diamondbacks and has made no secret of wanting Maddux and the geography works for that too. Lastly you have the Braves where lots of his friends still work, but that is also a problem, Glavine is doing for the Braves some of the same things Maddux does for the Cubs , he is currently a special assistant to John Schuerholz.
I don’t think Maddux wants to start over, but it will depend on who the Cubs bring in.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 19, 2011 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions
DS -- are Sandberg and Maddux on good terms?
I assume they are.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Maddux as Sr. Advisor - ala Scotty Bowman
How ‘bout that? A walking encyclopedia, great guy, Cubs hero. Can’t do much better than that.
Just win the next game...!
I don't know the ages of Maddux's kids
but that may play a hand in how much detailed work he wants to pursue. Maybe as the kids get older he will take on more responsibility whether here with the Cubs or another team.
I hope he stays in some capacity.
This is what I thought as well
but as of now he has said he has no intention of working in baseball full time even when he is an empty nester. I believe his son is 14 ( his daughter is about 3 years older).
I think the coolest thing ever in baseball would be the Brothers Maddux being manager & pitching coach on a team and I don’t think it would matter who did what.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 19, 2011 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Would love Cashman or Friedman, but what about Gerry Hunsicker?
He led the Astros to the world series and is now working in the Rays front office. Unlike Cash for Frieds, the Cubs wouldn’t be trying to take him away from an already successful GM position. (I think he’s a special assistant to the GM or something in Tampa.)
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
Hunsicker is rumored to be going back to Houston.
Looks like Ed Wade will be fired soon, too.
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 19, 2011 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions
If the Astros sale gets stalled, we might could get Hunsicker without competition.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
I think Rick Hahn will be the next Cubs GM.
If not Hahn, I think it’ll be Josh Byrnes.
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 19, 2011 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know if Hahn is progressive enough.
I get the feeling Ricketts is planning on getting a Rays 2.0 front office.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
Whoever the next GM is I think will be 180 degrees from Hendry.
There are quite a few good candidates, but I think Hahn is the best choice so far.
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 19, 2011 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions
To me, Hahn, seem more like 90 degrees, but I don't know him too much.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
Who has never been a fulltime GM.
I’m thinking Tom Ricketts wants someone who already has a track record of success as a GM.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
That's a very small list of candidates who are actually available.
He already said publicly his search will also include the top assistants in baseball. The article below from Fangraphs is very well done and includes many of those names.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, I agree.
Sure, some of those guys will be considered. When all is said & done, I’d expect the hire to be someone who’s already had MLB success as a GM.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
If he can't get Friedman or Cashman...
I’d rather he go with an assistant like Hahn, Cherington, the Braves director, etc rather than a retread.
What about Walt Jocketty?
His contract is up after this year.
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 20, 2011 6:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Jocketty is 60.
My guess is, they want someone who’s younger and who they can have for a long time.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I don't know much about Friedman, but he sounds good from what I hear.
I still think that Hahn is the favorite at this point, however.
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 20, 2011 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
SI's Heyman says Cashman not a GM candidate...
http://twitter.com/#!/SI_JonHeyman/status/105009761761771520
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 20, 2011 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Hunsicker did an amazing job
here in Houston.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Hunsicker is 61 years old.
As I said above about Walt Jocketty, I think the Cubs are looking for someone younger who they can have around for a long time. Andrew Friedman fits that bill.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
If Ryne Sandberg is hired, what do you think his coaching staff would look like?
Pure speculation here, but just throwing it out there. I like Al’s suggestion of Jim Riggleman as bench coach. I also think that Larry Bowa might return to the Cubs as third base coach. Not sure about the other coaching positions, but I think the Cubs definitely need a new pitching coach in 2012. Thoughts?
I would like to see Bowa "Talk" to Soriano next year after some loafing....
That would be hilarious….
I would not like to see Soriano next year in a Cubs uniform...
That would be wonderful.
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 19, 2011 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Bowa is a better coach than he is a manager...
He is a stickler for fundamentals and I think he would be a great addition to the Cubs coaching staff in 2012.
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 19, 2011 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Bowa would definitely liven things up!
Every day is a beautiful day for baseball!!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 19, 2011 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions
If Sandberg is hired...
… an experienced former MLB manager as bench coach would be useful, as would a pitching coach with MLB experience.
Riggleman would be a good choice — he also managed Sandberg in Ryno’s last two seasons.
There are probably others out there I’m not thinking of right now. But this minor league coaching staff has to go.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Sandberg fulfills some the thoughts that Ricketts expressed in the presser
Cub tradition, pride in Cubs uniform and a winning tradition, esp with the idea that the club is going to develop from within.
I think a smart GM would gain some fan friendly capital, and also gain some time to subtract some big contracts and add from within. Also understand what Ricketts said about financial resources, they are generated from cash flow…
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
its so weird you brought this up...
because i was just wondering where financial resources came from.
If I had to keep one coach I would keep Jaramillo...
But I think the better move would be to clean house and start over with a brand new coaching staff. It doesn’t have to be a coaching staff of “stars” or former Cubs. I do like the idea of having Riggleman and Bowa on the staff.
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 19, 2011 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Riggleman, yes.
Bowa — sorry, no.
Maybe Bobby Valentine could be hired in that role.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Can't see Bobby V
taking anything other than a managerial job.
by Josh Timmers on Aug 19, 2011 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree. And I don't think Bobby V would be a good fit for the Cubs.
Although I do think that Valentine will get an opportunity to manage again in the big leagues very soon. I thought the Dodgers would give him the job a year ago, but Mattingly was being groomed for that role.
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 20, 2011 6:21 AM CDT up reply actions
You"d rather have a guy that already failed with the cubs over Bowa? Why?
… Riggleman quit on his team in DC, why would u want a guy like riggleman? Bowa seems like a passionte guy that wants to win. If bowa was good enough to be on Joe Torres staff he is good enough to be with the cubs. Riggleman F’d himself when he quit on the Nats, he’s a loser and he already proved it with the cubs, been there done that.
I like Bowa AND Riggleman.
I agree that Riggleman looked bad quitting on the Nats, but I would rather have him on the current coaching staff than the “Not Ready For Primetime Coaches.” Riggleman as a bench coach would bring some knowledge and guidance that is sorely lacking on this team right now. And Bowa would bring passion and intensity that also is sorely lacking on this team right now.
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 20, 2011 6:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Right.
No one is suggesting Riggleman be manager, just bench coach.
“Passion and intensity”? We’ve tried that with players. Didn’t work out. The “passion and intensity” Bowa has, I’m not interested in.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
When did we try passion and intensity?
I think that is part of why Lou was brought in, but he had ZERO left. The only time he ever got excited about anything was the manufactured dust-kicking incident that got him kicked out of the game (I don’t remember the specifics, other than that it looked like he was pretending to be fired up). I get the sense that Lou went from the dugout to his office and rarely left there.
Personally, it matters less whether they are fiery or low-key and more whether they are willing to put up with unprofessional play and lack of hustle. I think a guy with a little hootzpa to him is less likely to put up with BS, but if a guy can quietly get everyone in line, that’s fine with me. The quiet disciplinarian is a bit rarer though, imo.
DEJESUS!!!
I think Ryne Sandberg could be that kind of guy.
I agree with you that accountability and unwillingness to put up with unprofessional play are important.
Having a guy like Larry Bowa, who yells and screams, is not the answer. It’s the same in any business. Who would you rather work for? A guy who constructively tries to help you get better, or someone who just yells at you when you do something wrong?
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I agree with you about Sandberg.
Bowa was just a suggestion. I know he rubs some people the wrong way. Okay, a lot of people. LOL. But that was primarily as a manager, not as a coach. Everyone is different, but I would rather work for a guy who chews me out privately and doesn’t publicly rip me in the newspaper or in front of teammates. I would rather work for a guy who I can respect and doesn’t try to be my buddy.
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 20, 2011 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Passion and intensity are good, as long as you stay rational. Bowa's track record on that isn't very good.
Speaking as a Tigers fan, I'd rather have Bowa managing than Leyland
“Ol’ Smokey” is a fraud. He likes giving the impression of being a crusty, no-nonsense skipper but he tipped his hand two years ago when he infamously said, “If we’re not good enough [to win the division], then we’re not good enough.”
Gimme a guy like Larry Bowa who takes losing personally and refuses to accept it.
Does Dawson want to be back on the field again? 1st base coach?
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
You're ridiculing me for the Dawson suggestion?
He has a front office position with the Marlins.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Dawson as hitting coach would be nice.
Although don’t laugh, but I think Mark Grace would be very good to have as a hitting coach. For one thing, it would get him out of the broadcast booth. Sorry, Mark. And it would get him back into the game where he belongs.
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 20, 2011 6:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Looking at the recent draft...
…the club is obviously trying to build from within and I think that is the right choice for long term success. It is unlikely, we are going to see payrolls in the 130 to 140 range anytime soon, and I have no problem with that, as long as they are building from the ground up.
With this being the cast, I don’t think a GM would go out and get a veteran manager who would likely want to win right now and have more veteran players. This is why a guy like Sandberg, could be a very logical choice to grow in the manager role with more younger players.
It is going to be a very interesting offeason, that is for sure.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Agreed
A cultural change must occur. Hard work and excellent fundamentals. Sandberg has seen all levels of our system and could provide significant input. If we want long term progress we have to improve our player development and that’s not an overnight job.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Finally..something to agree on. Riggleman would be a great choice.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
He's perfect for the role.
A veteran manager, who has also served as a bench coach before, who’s in his late 50s and not looking to usurp anyone’s managerial position.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
And is IMHO one of the best Cubs managers in the last 25+ years.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Aug 20, 2011 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions
He's also probably lost any chance to manage again ...
after his actions this year in Washington.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Another off-season of “Gee, I hope we get Ryno to manage”? Really? We didn’t learn our lesson from hiring a no experienced manager for this year? Are we gluttons for punishment?
Brenly from the booth or Valentine from ESPN…those are the ONLY real choices…unless we can get Cashman to bring along Girardi when/if he comes.
Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.
A "no-experience manager"? Really?
Sandberg has managed in the minors since 2006 and has been successful. On top of that, he’s a Hall of Famer who could have refused to take a job in the minor leagues and lobbied for a coaching or managing job in the majors. He didn’t.
And, while we’re on the subject, I got a question for you. Do you remember a guy who managed the Cincinnati Reds in the 1970s that started his managerial career in the minors and was hired in 1969 after never managing higher than Double A ball in the minors? Does the name Sparky Anderson ring a bell?
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 20, 2011 6:28 AM CDT up reply actions
One difference is Quade never played in the majors. Sandberg did.
That might not seem like that much significance to you, but believe me, it does to the players.
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 20, 2011 6:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Sandberg is NOT a no experience manager
in fact, he did EXACTLY what they asked and got experience in the minors – btw, who are our most fundamentally sound players right now? Would it be Barney and Castro who came up through the minors when Sandberg was there?
Hmmm….
Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008
Didn't the Sarge use to coach for us? Maybe he'd be back.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I like Sarge, but I thought he was pretty bad as a hitting coach.
I’d rather see a new guy.
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 20, 2011 6:30 AM CDT up reply actions
I really don't want Cashman.
At all. It’s Friedman or bust for me, although I admit I’m not informed on some of the other lesser known candidates.
No Cashman? He'd be an even better GM, IMHO, without a Yankees owner breathing down his neck
and signing unneeded relievers behind his back.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
I honestly can't make...
a compelling case against Cashman. I just think he’s worked under such beneficial circumstances (despite the ownership) that I’m skeptical of his ability.
I’d much rather have someone who has proven he can succeed under restrictions and offer him the opportunity to continue what he’s good with while also having larger resources available. As has been said, Boston has been the model franchise recently for this.
Yeah, definitely. Imagine someone like Friedman with a budget like Hendry. It'd be an NL massacre.
At the same time, though, we as Cubs fans should know well that money alone is not enough to build a winning team. I think Cashman — if given the key to city, so to speak — could push the Cubs past the Phillies as the NL’s king within five years.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
Friedman would be an excellent choice.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Oh boy, Friedman on the north side would be killer.
I just don’t see the Rays letting him go.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
And that happens.....
….. he should bring Joe Maddon with him.
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie
Good lord, please!
Joe Maddon is by far the smartest active manager in the league. If not Maddon, then at least the Cubs could get Dave Martinez, Maddon’s bench coach.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
Well.....
…. Scioscia’s out of good managers in waiting. Ron Roenicke was the last one. He’s spawned Bud Black, Joe Maddon and Roenicke, not a bad trio. Right now his bench coach is Rob Picciolo, which isn’t all that inspiring. Matter of fact, even Scioscia is fraying around the edges lately. Apparently he’s more than partly responsible for telling Tony Reagins they don’t need anyhelp while Texas pulls further away. Mike Napoli has gone very public on how bad it is to be a catcher who plays for Scioscia.
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie
Dino Ebel!
Just kidding.
But Napoli should know it’s not being a catcher that’s a problem, it’s being a bad catcher under Scioscia that’s hell.
by Josh Timmers on Aug 19, 2011 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL on Ebel
And yeah, the primary thing Napoli brought to the team was his MILF of a mother :
But things in Anaheim aren’t as idyllic as they used to be.
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie
It would just be fitting for the Cubs to hire a guy named Dino...
And he be the one to take us out of the Jurassic age.
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 20, 2011 6:31 AM CDT up reply actions
If the Cubs hire Davey Martinez as bench coach
I don’t think I’ll be able to stop laughing.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 19, 2011 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Absolutely no chance of a Sandberg-Martinez reunion!
Heck… you’d need Big Z to be dugout security next year. That’s one expensive bouncer.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I think Maddon has 1 year left.
So in this dream scenario… we’d need a seat warmer for 1 year.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
QUADE STAYS!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2011 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions
How bout just his Bobblehead for manager
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I thought we already had that.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
by Al Yellon on Aug 19, 2011 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh snap!
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 19, 2011 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions
AL YOU ARE MEAN
Al you are mean comparing Quade to a Bobblehead.
TO BOBBLEHEADS!
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
by puckishcubsfan on Aug 19, 2011 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions
So was that...
as it usually is.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Personally, I don't see the Phils staying on top for another 5 years
Their system is rather depleted and their top players are starting to get a little long n the tooth.
Five years from now, the Braves will be the behemoth of the NL.
As long as they keep their payroll high...
and keep churning out guys like Worley, Madson, Kendrick, Brown, etc., they’ll do just fine, even when Howard goes in the crapper. They have 3 years to replenish their farm system, if they haven’t already started. The NL East would be really scary if the Marlins weren’t owned and run by morons.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know if it is completely comparable
But when the Dodgers signed Torre, magic didn’t exactly happen then, either. A couple of playoff appearances and that’s it.
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie
Me neither
Something tells me he’d crap himself if he didn’t have Fort Knox backing up his deals.
Just win the next game...!
Possibly Rick Hahn
One other possibility that I heard was Rick Hahn
Not sure that is what I would be looking for
New poster so let me know if the link doesn’t come through
I will die a Cubs fan!
by MyCubsHangover on Aug 19, 2011 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions
What link?
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie
see my comment
on the Who’s Next post on the right sidebar - if it is true that Soriano was signed behind Cashman’s back that is exactly 1 bad contract on a team that is about 8% of payroll
Colvin <3
never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 19, 2011 6:02 PM CDT reply actions
Good luck Jim Hendry, thank you for all the good moments..
but it is good to be excited again about the Cubs…
I hear you!
This is the most excited I’ve been about the Cubs since 2008.
A DRaysBay and FanGraphs writer from Cubs Stats and Twitter @BradleyWoodrum
I'll get excited when I see a front office with a vision
For now, this is just the first step in the right direction.
Just win the next game...!
Ricketts obviously has a vision...
Because you don’t know it doesn’t mean it doesnt exist. If it didnt, Hendry would still be GM. You don’t fire guys you like and respect just because.
Firing a GM months to over a year too late is not vision
So what is his vision? Saying, “winning the WS” is an obvious answer but a vision. That’s the mission.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2011 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions
If you haven't noticed
Ricketts isn’t exactly an impetuous person. Coming in with both guns blazing isn’t his style. I’m guessing at the end of last season, he wanted to give Hendry one more chance to right the ship – at some point early this year, he decided that he had seen enough.
Give him some time to execute his plan – he’s in this investment for 30 years, not 30 months.
But...
we have to give him money next year… and not in 30 years. If he’s going to try and sell people on patience, he better to do a much better job than he’s done the first two years. This is a good start… of something more, iI hope.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions
This coming from the same group (not saying you specifically)
That stated they’re fine with a complete rebuild? You think that would’ve brought in the money next year?
He took his time and researched all of Hendry’s moves and took a year and a half to determine if he was the correct GM to lead his team. His firing also coincidentally falls in line with the time when Friedman and Cashman’s contracts are up.
First of all
nobody is forcing you to give him money next year. If you don’t want to spend it, then don’t. That’s your choice. I knew that they would suck this year and I’ve still went to games. I also know that they will likely suck next year but I’ll still go to games – that’s my choice.
Leaving the business side of the shop aside for now, what hasn’t he done on the baseball side that he said that he would do? He strongly believed that the best way to build an organization for the long-term is to build from within. Low and behold, he went haywire this year in the draft and IFA and he is building a state of the art facilities in Mesa and in the Dominican. He is also taking an active role in managing his relationships with the minor league affiliates. Sounds like a guy executing his plan to me.
I don’t understand the criticism that he’s taking. It’s not like no one saw the last two seasons coming and franchises built for the long-term don’t get built in 18 months.
Just because you think it's late doesn't mean everyone does.
I completely understand why Hendry was retained for 2011, even if I didn’t specifically agree with it.
a shout out for Colvin getting a big hit...up the middle and a liner off the OF'er
he has been pulling everything lately and nice to see him take up the middle…
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
I like Colvin but a lot of people simply want to write him off.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
He needs more playing time.
Even against lefthanders.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Giving up on Colvin is silly at best.
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
by puckishcubsfan on Aug 19, 2011 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Why is that?
Are there that many misinformed folks out there? What’s he done to deserve this…?
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2011 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Look really bad offensively...
I haven’t given up on him, but I’m not sure he can recover from the way Hendry and Quade screwed with him. People also have unreasonable expectations just because the Cubs were dumb enough to take him in the first round and then rush him to the majors way before he was really ready.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Haven't seen him in the lineup consistently enough
With the Dome trade, thought it was coming, but not with Quade at the helm.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2011 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Does Hendry still get paid for 2012?
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
So if he signs with another team next year, he draws 2 salaries?
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
I assume so.
Most likely, whoever hires him for 2012 doesn’t have to pay him very much next year.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
This is the case, although I wont speculate on what he'd make with another club.
It’s a shame its not like baseball players where we get league minimum back if he signs elsewhere.
I doubt Hendry will ever be a GM again.
Most likely, “special assistant” is in his future.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
What will happen to Kenney?
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
Nothing, probably.
But he’s out of the baseball side of the operation, so isn’t really relevant to this discussion.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I'd positively be giddy at getting Andrew Friedman.
I don’t care if he’s got an eye for talent, that’s what scouts are for, but his knowledge of how the draft and compensation works is far superior to most GMs in the league.
The guy knows his business.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
Friedman has done an outstanding job with little or no payroll.
I’d be thrilled with him, too.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
GM hire
I hope the Cubs at least interview both Friedman and Alex Anthopoulos from Toronto. I know Toronot has been in hot water with the sign stealing but he has done some good things. Anyone who can get rid of the Vernon Wells contract, wow, he would be useful just to try and get rid of Soriano and Z.
I agree with just about everyone that it was time for Hendry to go. With that said, I can’t remember a classier exit and I guess we shouldn’t expect anything different. Despite disagreeing on quite a few of his baseball decisions, he handled the day-to-day business the right way. (interviews, keeping things in house, taking the ownership of issues) I will always wonder how much pressure he was under by Zell to make the Cubs appealing to buyers and what role that played in some of the big deals.
I sat next to him and McDonough at a Spring Training game a few years back, they both were really nice. But as Howard Schultz said, “Onward”.
Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air...
The Cubs can only interview them if their teams allow it.
No way they let them go without a fight and considerable cost to the Cubs.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I retract this statement per Friedman...
as he’s completely a free agent. By god, if some other team gets him, I’ll be one irate and irascible human being. Talk about a perfect storm. He’s just about the only guy on the planet who could convince me signing Prince Fielder is a good idea.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I've heard those same rumors...
I believe he’ll see the Cubs are even closer and the Astros don’t have any money to put into the team. I don’t think he’ll leave Tampa Bay to move down in the world.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions
My interview with Friedman consists of one question
do you want to be remembered as the mastermind who brought the first world championship to the Northside in over a century or not?
Unfortunately, those aren't the only choices.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know...
there hasn’t been one worth having in my life time, so maybe the bar should be raised higher than resume padder? I haven’t seen it work yet with GMs or managers… it certainly hasn’t helped bring the top players here for below-market rates. Didn’t work in Boston… wouldn’t expect it would work any better here.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions
My question would be
When can you start?
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Freidman's from Houston
He’d be going home to his family
by Josh Timmers on Aug 19, 2011 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions
How about Cubs offer to move every one of his family members to Chicago??
New home sweet home!
How about getting Theo Epstein? Look what he did to the Red Sox.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
I can't see the Red Sox letting him go.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 19, 2011 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I can't either.
Andrew Friedman would be a nice consolation prize.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Based upon what I've seen in this thread,
I wouldn’t mind having Friedman either.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 19, 2011 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
He's on top of my list...
even higher than Epstein, though he does seem to hire underlings very, very well.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
Friedman has done a lot with a very little. Epstein has been great, but he as done so with nearly a Yankee sized payroll to work with. Either one would be fantastic, no way Epstein is available though.
Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air...
I think he's more available than Friedman is.
Epstein probably wouldn’t want to leave, but if he did, the Red Sox wouldn’t fight nearly as hard to keep him since they could much more easily hire someone else, including promote their #2 Ben Cherington. I could see Epstein wanting to leave for a challenge.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Basically...
I don’t see how the Rays allow Friedman to leave. He’s just way too valuable to them and almost irreplaceable based on the formula he’s started there.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions
The Rays can throw cash at him too.
I’m willing to go as high as possible… but maybe Tampa Bay will too.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Whatever you spend on a GM
is a bargain compared to the money you put in his hands. If he is who Ricketts wants, there is no way he should get outbid regardless of the cost. I doubt a GM makes more than a mil or two a year—think of how many times that Hendry spent poorly.
DEJESUS!!!
I believe Brian Cashman makes about $3 million a year.
I believe Hendry was making about $1.5 million.
Somewhere in between would bring Friedman to the Cubs, I’d think.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
It will take more than that to get Friedman to leave even Tampa Bay...
where he just drafted 100 1st rounders and has a killer farm system and pieces like BJ Upton to trade. And I’d definitely give him more than that, especially if he really is interested in leaving and considers running the Astros. I really, really do not want that.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Remember
… the GM and everyone who is part of the Cubs team that eventually does win the WS will be remembered forever.
That’s the lure that brought Dusty Baker and Lou Piniella here as managers.
It’s the same lure that could bring an Andrew Friedman to Chicago.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Question
Question for all would it be worth it to trade a prospect for Friedman? Didn’t that happen with another team?
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
by puckishcubsfan on Aug 19, 2011 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions
He's a free agent at the end of the year.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks got him mixed up wth the Maddon who is under contract for 2012 mixed up.
Would consider a prospet for Maddon
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
by puckishcubsfan on Aug 19, 2011 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Friedman is under contract
Dusty and Lou were not.
I agree on the lure, but in this case the lure is going to have one helluva piece of bait on it.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2011 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Except...
Friedman’s not.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions
So the mgr has one yr more than the GM?
hmmmm….
OK, this should be interesting…
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2011 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I would trade for Maddon...
but I don’t perceive the Cubs having anything the Rays would want. They’re still quasi-competitive even if Friedman bolts, and they need a manager capable of squeezing out those extra wins, which Maddon is good at. They have a lot of smart people down there who Maddon would be happy working for, but I’d love to have him here, of course.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions
We've played that card so many times
that I’ve lost count. Freidman isn’t motivated by money. It’s the challenge. He’s young, tenacious and a blue collar type GM and lives in the risk/reward philosophy. We’d see him turning over guys in their good years for a constant flow of great prospects. No 8 year no trade contracts. I want him badly.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Epstein is far from perfect
Dice-K, JD Drew, Mike Cameron, John Lackey and several others have had huuuuuge money thrown at them. You could make the argument that he’s had as many fails as Hendry, but the Sox had deep enough pockets to absorb those mistakes, and have multi-million dollar players sitting on the bench. Yes, the Sox system has produced some great players under his watch, but I think you could paint him with the same brush as Cashman.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Aug 19, 2011 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think
they difference between Hendry and Epstein is the minor league system Epstein produced. They both made their share of errors in handing out free agent deals (though Epstein doesn’t have any Sorianos), but Epstein has produced one of the most productive farm systems in baseball, and Hendry has been a complete failure in that regard.
It’s one reason I don’t understand Al and Rickett’s desire to keep Fleita on board. What has he done to warrant a holdover other than oversee a largely dysfunctional and unproductive farm system?
DEJESUS!!!
Dysfunctional and unproductive?
What system are you looking at? In fact, the system has begun to produce (Barney, Cashner, Castro) and is about to produce (Jackson) some quality major league players.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Yeah...
The Red Sox have produced 2 guys who are probably the best at their positions in the Major League in Dustin Pedroia and Jacoby Ellsbury and a guy who’s been a borderline Cy Young candidate for the past few years in Jon Lester. I know you’re not a big stat guy, but that’s 3 guys who have produced 6+ WAR seasons. The Cubs farm system has produced 1 6+ WAR guy this decade, and that’s Mark Prior. The Cubs just haven’t compared to the Red Sox in farm production.
Pat Riley is the devil.
Did Youk come through their system as well?
Can’t remember – for some reason, I think he may have spent most of his minors career with another organization. If he did come through Red Sox system, that is another example as he is a fantastic CI. Probably only above average offensively at 1B but a definite asset offensively at 3B.
Youkilis is a product of the Boston system.
Was their 8th round pick in 2001.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Yup him too
But that was way back in 2001, which was before the time of Epstein and the current regime.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Aug 20, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Eh ...
while Castro is a definite win, Barney probably isn’t more than a backup on a good team — or a starter who’s cheap enough to let you spend elsewhere (think Theriot 2007-08). Cashner has pitched once this season.
Now, if Jackson and some of the other guys start performing, and Cashner comes back, then the system looks better. Right now, the jury is decidedly out — with reason to hope the verdict will be good.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Sure.
But that hardly rates “dysfunctional and unproductive”.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Agreed on 'dysfunctional.'
Unproductive? I’d say the jury’s still out. If Castro is the only star — or even legitimate starter — that comes out of the allegedly better farm system …
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
dysfunctional = not functional
the function of the minor league system is to produce quality major league players. The Cubs have not done that. They have produced one possible star in Castro, but that’s about it. I love Barney but he’s not a significant player. Cashner has yet to prove he is anything, and Jackson is still in the minor leagues.
The guys that have come up from the minors are consistently poor in fundamentals and lacking in difference-making talent. Things may change, eventually, with larger investment and better selection, but I still fail to see what Fleita has done to earn his position being kept. The Cubs do a poor job of developing players in the minors, and don’t seem organized in their decision-making in how to promote and evaluate players.
If someone can tell me something Fleita does exceptionally well I’d be all ears, but all I’ve heard (mostly from Al and Ricketts) is that he’s valuable, but with nothing to support it. I very well could be wrong, I just haven’t seen much to support keeping him.
DEJESUS!!!
It all comes down ...
to how much credit you give Fleita for the guys who look like they COULD be solid major league performers. Otherwise, it’s Castro and not much else.
BTW, aren’t you glad that Ricketts announced more than what you thought he was going to announce?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I'm in about the same place you are
The new GM needs a solid background in player development. Then the GM can make this decision.
He revolutionized the way the Cubs work in Latin America and the Pacific Rim.
We went from one scout to dozens of scouts in these areas, and we’re constantly a top spender in the IFA period and draw more international recognition because of it.
Well this is shaping up to be...
a very exciting offseason. Hopefully Ricketts can identify his man fairly quickly, so that the new GM is in place very early in the offseason.
Personally, I’m very happy that Jim Hendry is no longer the GM of the Chicago Cubs. I think he made some great moves during his tenure, and I’m appreciative of his leadership that got us back to back division titles. However, his firing was very overdue so I’m glad to see him relieved of his duties. As much as I dislike Jim Hendry the GM, by all accounts he seems like a very good man. Everyone seems to like him and respect him. Sometimes we forget that people in roles like his are actually human. Seeing his press conference today – handled with an amazing level of class, by the way – reminded me of how very human the man is. I wish him all the best and am quite sure that his phone has already rang about possible opportunities.
Now, let’s get rid of Quade and start fresh for 2012. It feels good to be excited about the future of this team again.
Oh, and… always nice to beat the Cardinals. I will be there tomorrow, and given how hard it was to find tickets, I’m expecting a jam packed house. Should be a fun weekend!
by kanderber on Aug 19, 2011 6:47 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Green'ed.
Have a great time tomorrow!
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 19, 2011 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey, if you're in the bleachers tomorrow, stop by and say hi.
Would like to meet you.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Thanks, but...
I’ll be in the grandstand tomorrow. Going with some family, including a kid, so we wanted to avoid the bleachers for his sake. On that note, does anyone know if the Block Party (or whatever they’re calling it) is a good place to take a 12 year old kid to before the game?
I’ll stop by next time I’m in the bleachers though.
Please do.
Enjoy the game.
I have heard the block party does have some kid/tween activities, so sure, go check it out.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I'm sad for JH...
… cause I know how bad it sucks to get fired,
With that said I’m excited that TR is:
A.) Making changes to make this team better.
B.) Shown that he is paying attention and is willing to make the
tough decisions to make things better.
C.) Showing that he’s not, as some have conjectured, a fan boy with a checkbook
Speachless...
I was wrong on this call.
I truly thought Hendry would be retained. Give credit to Ricketts. Now the tough part begins. GM, Manager, and please some starting pitching.
I'm
always sad when someone looses a job. I am real sad when a Cub GM or MGR looses their job. That means they failed. And we as fans have failed again to support a WS winner.
Cubs 2011 59-103
Yes.
But it’s not a big deal, so don’t worry about it. I knew what you meant, FWIW. :-)
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 19, 2011 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions
No worries. :-)
n/t
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 19, 2011 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions
No worries
Cubbies are a bad team. I worry day and night. Screw my grammer, there are bigger things in life. All is good, thanks. Just kidding around. Have a great night. And always remember, Go Cubs!
Cubs 2011 59-103
I just got home and haven't been close to posting all day
I’ll just say I think Jim deserved a better fate.
I hope the next GM can withstand all the slings and arrows that will be pointed his way from Day One.
Jim made a lot of good moves, and some bad ones. The judgment on him is fair. You have to produce, especially in this market.
All I hope is that this situation isn’t hopeless. If it is, God help us all.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 19, 2011 8:10 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
And I'll say this
The real loser here is Mike Quade. I really don’t think this has been fair to him at all.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 19, 2011 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He has been put
in a position to fail, but he’s also made the least of it. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Cubs manager look so in over his head in my lifetime (34 years).
The situation has nothing but hope—though that’s all we have. We could potentially bring in the best GM in the game (whomever that is), and they, coupled with the money Ricketts is starting to put into the minors could take the club places we’ve never seen. That is the hope. Until Ricketts disappoints us with his hire we have all the hope in the world.
Hendry deserved to be let go with class, but he certainly deserved to let go. He led this team into an impossibly bad situation. Some things (such as Soriano’s last 2 years) may have been out of his control, but he has done a poor job the last few years.
DEJESUS!!!
I've often been at odds with you.
But you’ve summed it up quite well here. There IS hope for the future. Now, Tom Ricketts has to hire the right GM to put that hope into action.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
No way
Jim Essian was the most clueless manager of my lifetime. Quade isn’t even in the same ballpark, so to speak.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 22, 2011 12:18 AM CDT up reply actions
If Hendry made a lot of good move
and only some bad ones, why was his record as GM only one game above .500?
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
Because "moves" don't necessarily translate directly to "wins".
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
But wouldn't making a lot of good moves translate to success?
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
The move might be good...
but good moves at the wrong times and bad moves the rest of the time is how the Cubs got to the place they’re in right now.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
But what NBF implied
is that the Hendry made substantially more good moves than bad. And what I am saying is that if Hendry made substantially more good moves than bad, the Cubs would have had more success under his tenure. Even making non-moves that would help the team are considered bad moves IMHO.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
His bad moves...
were really, really bad… crippling bad. And without enough money to make up for his errors, there’s really not enough good moves to be made with the money he had leftover.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not like he was at the helm of a small market team
He had plenty of money at his disposal. A good GM would have contingency plans for really, really bad moves, just look at Sabean and the Zito contract. He had one of the most cripplingly bad contracts in all of baseball but yet he was able put a team on the field capable of winning a world series regardless.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
Not defending him here
but even if good moves are make, they can be quickly undone due to injuries and questionable coaching decisions
The other problem is degrees. We’ve had some big failures. Multiple smaller successes can’t cover those up
It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?
by chitownhawkeye on Aug 19, 2011 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions
As I said above
A good GM would have contingency plans in place. Injuries are a part of the game and happen to every team, just look at the Cardinals with Pujols or the Yankees with A-Rod or even the Phillies with multiple injuries to key players this year. And bad coaching can be directly put on the shoulders of Hendry as well, he may not be in the dugout himself, but he’s the one who put the people there who are making bad decisions.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
I wonder if no matter how many good moves you make,
is it destined to come to nothing with this franchise. I hope not.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 19, 2011 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I fear that as well.
I know what you’re talking about, too. There are psychological barriers that have to be crossed. Cross them just once and you’ll be fine forever (or for a long time, at least).
But you have to cross them once. The 2008 team was the best team in the league and possibly the best in baseball. Yet come playoff time, they looked like this year’s Astros.
That’s the barrier they have to cross. I don’t know how that can be done.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I don't believe that is true
the 2003 team was less talented and went farther. I think the 2008 Cub team was similar to the Bulls of this year—a team that cruised through the regular season, but when it was crunch time and another team’s aces vs your aces, another team focusing all their attention on every pitch (and us countin on guys like Soriano who couldn’t hit another team’s best pitch), we didn’t measure up.
I don’t think it was psychological failure or curses or fate, it was a team that wasn’t built for the playoffs in some way.
DEJESUS!!!
The 2008 team met every challenge...
… until the playoffs. They may have been poorly prepared, but they also had the psychological barrier. It’s one reason they made those four errors in game two. Mark DeRosa mentioned that when one error happened, all of them thought, “Me next?” and then it was, in fact, them next.
They have to find a way to shut out the “how are we going to screw this up” that must be going through their heads. Cross that barrier once and it’s gone forever.
How to get past it that one time is the issue.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I think that begins with a compotent manager
Ricketts and a new GM can change the organizational philosophy and put together all the good teams they can, but when it comes down to it, it’s the manager that is responsible for making sure players produce and are psychologically prepared to perform to the best of their ability when the time counts most.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
Hope you're right, EE,
but I think you might be wrong. The Cubs’ pressure is worse than what the Red Sox dealt with, IMHO.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 22, 2011 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions
2008 Cubs needed a Curt Schilling...
That one confident guy who could lead by example and show no fear. I really thought Dempster could have been that guy. He still could be that guy. Unfortunately, it didn’t happen. As much as 1984, 1989, 1998, 2003 and 2007 hurt, 2008 hurt the most.
by jeffmills1972 on Aug 20, 2011 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Key difference - 2003 team had better pitching
And it was no accident that the team lost when Prior and Wood stumbled.
Not true if
there are other things at work here. (And I don’t mean curses, which don’t exist and are stupid.)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 22, 2011 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm going to ask what may be a stupid quiestion
If Hendry was told he was being fired before the trade deadline, and it seems (to me at least) to have been a very quiet deadline, is that related?
I had no trouble accepting that there wasn’t much trade action due to some of the players having difficult to move contracts, poor performance, or young guys that the team were not willing to trade at all. However, with this new information in hand, does it suggest that there might have been moves except Hendry was unable to make trades because he no longer had the authority without getting further approval, slowing the process down? Or even worse, that he didn’t push as hard for some trades as he might have.
While I believe he was a professional about being asked to do this, I can understand if there was a slight drop off in effort. I’m probably reading too much into this, but I figure you can all set me straight
It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?
I think you're reading too much into it.
Jim Hendry has been a baseball professional his entire adult life. I doubt he did anything but his utmost in everything he did up to today.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Ricketts addressed this at the presser
He said that any moves proposed were not in their interest so they weren’t concluded, the Fukudome was in both the interest of the Cubs and Cleveland so it was concluded.
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
If they hire
a fantastic GM I don’t much care who the manager is. I think a manager makes a small difference each year in wins and losses, but the GM builds the franchise.
If I had to make a budget, I’d put 80% in GM recruitment and 20% in manager budget.
DEJESUS!!!
As I said about Sandberg last year....
… you don’t do it ONLY to make a PR move. If you think it’s the best baseball move, then do it.
The PR boost you’d get is a bonus.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Mrs. Zeke would come to more games...
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
Well, there you go.
She’s likely not the only one, either.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Well, it's not like she needs MORE reasons to come see the Cubs
but you know what I mean. She and Ryno are like me and Ernie.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
I understand that.
Like I said, she’s not the only one who feels that way.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Well, the new hires will make for a more interesting off season, that's for sure.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
Next time the two of you go and I'm there,
Make sure you both come visit me or let me know where you are so I can stop by your seats.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 19, 2011 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Jim Hendry and I met in the restroom of the Hilton during the Cubs Convention in 2007.
We would have shaken hands but we were both, um, occupied with other things. You know, standing around next to each other and…uh, shooting the breeze.
He did seem like a genuinely nice man. He was gracious and optimistic as we talked about the Cubs’ upcoming season and then in a … uh,… zip – he was gone. So to speak.
Thank you for your years of service to the Cubs Jim. We wish you well.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
As far as your sig goes...
I’m still holding out hope it won’t be 108 years between Cubs World Series wins.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 19, 2011 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions
In all honesty
I’d take it, this time anyway.
It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?
by chitownhawkeye on Aug 19, 2011 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Best decision Ricketts has made. Let's see where he goes from here.
"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL
by HotDogDude on Aug 19, 2011 9:50 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
More thoughts
I find this an exciting day and a happy day. It feels like a new beginning for the Cubs. When I went to the washrooom shortly after the announcement the muzak was playing “Morning Has Broken” in the hallway maybe that’s a sign.
But in some ways it’s also a sad day. Truly a class act individual. It’s too bad he wasn’t better at his job. I fully believed he poured every ounce of himself into the team. He left the way he always did his job. With class.
And I thought I detected a lot of emotion in Kerry during his appearance with the media. They basically arrived about the same time, Kerry was the first first round draft pick with Hendry as part of the scouting player development.
We might not be able to get Hahn. Kenny Williams might be in trouble if the Sox fall down this year. Wouldn’t mind Williams actually.
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
Also
Also Al I had dinner tonight with friend in the internet group I seem to always be meeting with friends with when something huge happens with the Cubs. Will warn you next time :.
Okay the day I meet with anyone in the group something always happens. Next time is mid October. Expect new manager to be named second Friday in October because that’s next time I’m meeting people with the group :).
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
If you were a real Cub fan
you’d move up the dinner.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Exciting ending of the game today.
I’m glad it was Colvin who won the game for us.
It was time for Hendry to leave and look forward to what else happens.
Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the ground each morning the devil says, "OH CRAP, SHE'S UP"!
if
ricketts is truly serious about change then quade and his staff need to go.and the big difference between cashman and hendry is that the players cashman brought in did their jobs. it’s the culture. when you go to the yankess you’re expected to win. when you go the cubs we’ll you know.you should’nt be finishing 5th every year with a big payroll.and i really think sandberg should get a chance.he’s a cub not a phillie.
Very upbeat
Al, I liked the optimistic tone of your post. I think all of us should follow that path as we look forward to next year.
wccubfan

by 























