Another Sunday, Another Loss: Cardinals Defeat Cubs 6-2
by Al Yellon on Aug 22, 2011 7:30 AM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
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PrintJust five Sundays remain in the 2011 season for the Cubs, and that's a good thing -- the Cubs are now 4-15 on Sunday after losing 6-2 to St. Louis on Sunday night in front of an ESPN audience that was probably wondering what this game was doing on national television.
Memo to whoever the new Cubs general manager is: Rodrigo Lopez is not a major league pitcher. Memo to whoever the new Cubs manager is: don't let pitchers with an ERA over 11 against a certain team in a particular year start games against that team. Lopez gave up four home runs to the Cardinals -- including the third one he's allowed this year to Albert Pujols -- and his ERA against them actually went down. In 5.1 innings he gave up five earned runs, "lowering" his ERA against St. Louis from 11.81 to 10.13.
In fact, Randy Bush, here's something you could do in your brief tenure as Cubs GM: could you please just release Lopez? His turn could have been skipped altogether in this series, with last Thursday's off day, and there are enough off days the rest of the season that the team's fifth starter won't have to make more than one or two more starts. Someone else -- anyone else -- could make those starts.
The home run by Pujols was his 26th at Wrigley Field. That makes him the leader among active visiting players; he had been tied with Adam Dunn. The all-time leader is Willie Mays, with 54. Pujols, who is 31, has played 85 games at Wrigley; Mays, in his 22-year-career, played 179 games there. Pujols has a shot at that mark -- presuming he stays with the Cardinals or doesn't otherwise move out of the NL Central.
The other news made last night was by Cubs chairman Tom Ricketts, who appeared on ESPN's telecast and made this statement:
#Cubs boss Ricketts says he'd have a hard time imagining Zambrano pitching for team again.less than a minute ago via TweetDeck 
Favorite 
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Bruce Miles
BruceMiles2112
That sent the Twitterverse aflutter, claiming Ricketts had destroyed any trade value Big Z had; you really don't want to see some of the other tweets.
Look. (As a former Cubs manager might have said.) Zambrano already had very little trade value -- the Cubs apparently tried to deal him, offering to eat much of the remaining contract, before the July 31 non-waiver deadline, and found no one interested, not even the Yankees, who were looking for starting pitching help.
The best-case scenario, as Zambrano's grievance regarding being placed on the disqualified list has not yet been scheduled for a hearing, is that the Cubs, Z and his agent, and the MLBPA negotiate a settlement -- call it a buyout if you want -- of the remaining time on his contract for an amount somewhere between zero and the total he is owed, and he'd be declared a free agent.
Oh, and who knew Randy Bush had a sense of humor?
After ending an interview, Bush cracked it was time for him to go hug Albert Pujols.
That's about all we've got after a game in which the last 11 Cubs went down meekly. They'll try it again against the wild-card-leading Braves, starting tonight.
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Very disgraceful what happened with Lopez
a lot of people spent a lot of money on tickets last night. They deserved better. There’s no way in the world any competent manager doesn’t start Dempster with a chance to sweep the Cardinals and a game on Sunday night baseball. Quade is clearly one of the most foolish managers I have ever seen. It’s like he doesn’t even have a brain. This was not a hard decision. Unreal.
by MikeJW on Aug 22, 2011 7:35 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I can't argue with this.
One thing I’d like to see a new manager do is give his fifth starter fewer starts, using off days to work through the rest of the rotation.
In an era when some teams are using six-man rotations, giving lesser pitchers fewer starts makes more sense to me.
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Why would give the 5th starter days off this year?
The Cubs are going NOWHERE. Dempster, Garza are basically the only guys you can trust anyway. Let them have their days off. Lopez is a 5th starter and frankly he could be a lot worse like say Wells and especially Coleman. I really do not get the Lopez hate. I am sorry he was bad last night, skipping him for an extra Coleman/Wells start and forcing Garza & Demp to throw more 120 ish pitch games is not a better idea. If the Cubs had ANYONE who could replace him fine, but they don’t. The Angeles who are still somewhat in the race started Jerome Williams, that should be a clue about how hard it is to find a viable 5th starter.
A manager is not there to get you a sweep on a nationally televised game in a lost season, he is there to do what is best for the team.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2011 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
A manager is not there to get you a sweep on a nationally televised game in a lost season, he is there to do what is best for the team.
What’s “best for the team” would be to skip the spot in the rotation of a guy who has been really bad.
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Not even skip him.
lets get a look at a younger guy. I’d rather get a look at Rusin, or Struck, or even McNutt. get them a couple starts in Sept and see if they are maybe close to competing for a rotation spot in the spring. But Coleman is terrible, and 35 and 38 year old retreads are becomign a tired act to watch.
None of the guys you've mentioned warrants a callup.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
You'd really rather see more of Lopez?
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Am I excited about Lopez? No.
Am I excited about some AAA guy coming up to be cannon fodder? Also, no.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I'm more excited to see someone...
… who MIGHT be part of the future than Lopez.
Also, why do you assume he’d be “cannon fodder”? Guys like that who pitch AGAINST the Cubs often do well. Why couldn’t our guys do the same?
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I'm assuming they'd be cannon fodder ...
or at least, not better than Lopez, because none of them has been good in the minors this year. Who would you call up?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Jay Jackson, probably.
Or Nick Struck. Or Chris Rusin. All have been mentioned here. I can’t imagine any of them being worse, and they have a chance to be better.
At least they’re part of this team’s future. I’m tired of seeing these guys who aren’t.
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Jay Jackson's ERA is close to 6.00, and his WHIP is over 1.6.
Struck’s barely pitched above A ball. I suppose Rusin might be worth a look in September, but you really can’t imagine any of them being worse than Lopez? Lopez has had three quality starts and hasn’t really been awful when he hasn’t faced St. Louis.
I know you don’t like retreads. But I think that’s overly coloring what you think our young pitchers will produce compared with what Lopez has done.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Struck was solid in AA
and he’s held his own in AAA. the point is, they are the future. why not give one of them a couple starts, rusin or struck. i agree jackson has been awful. but this is about development. use it as a teaching tool. Lopez is just wasting a roster spot.
Small sample size.
Struck was very good in six starts in West Tenn and decent in nine starts for Iowa. But that’s just 15 starts above Class A.
My guess is that if Struck got called up, he wouldn’t start. He’d be in the pen.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Another pointless move.
Seriously. The kid looks good. Why not give him a couple of September starts against the Pirates or Astros?
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I don't have a problem with that.
I also don’t have a problem if it doesn’t happen, because the Cubs might not think that a guy with 15 starts at AA or above isn’t ready to face MLB hitters.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Those guys aren't ready for the big leagues, so reluctantly my answer is "yes"
The depth of starting pitching in the whole system was awful this year – claiming Silva + the desperation retreads they brought in were “depth” requires belief in Santa and the Tooth Fairy. But rushing up kids now is not going to fix those mistakes.
He's been really bad against the Cardinals.
Most of the guys we have in the minors have just been really bad. He should have been skipped last night. But this “just release him” talk is overkill.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
And he was moderately bad for 5-1/3 innnings last night
But Quade tried to ride another starter too long….and got an additional HR for his troubles. Leaving Lopez in in the 6th after he has given up a base runner is managerial malpractice.
Lopez shouldn't have started last night against St. Louis.
And he really shouldn’t have been allowed to pitch the sixth. But I don’t see why it’s so awful that he keeps a seat warm in the rotation when nobody in the minors looks ready to go.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Because this team isn't going anywhere this year.
Why not take a look at the future?
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Example.
A Cubs team of a couple of decades ago wasn’t going anywhere late in the season. They had received a number of starts from retread pitchers, though none as old as Lopez or Davis or Ortiz.
In September they called up a 20-year-old kid with only two years of minor league experience. He made five starts and posted a 5.52 ERA.
That was Greg Maddux. Granted that Maddux had much more success in the minors than anyone currently in the system. And I’m not suggesting that anyone currently in the system could be as good as Maddux.
But at least we got a glimpse of the future.
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From your own post:
Maddux had more success than anybody we have in the minors AND the callup happened in September (after the minor league season ended).
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
by elgato on Aug 22, 2011 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Right.
Still, why not try one of these kids? What do you have to lose?
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You could mess up their development/confidence.
Anyway, I wouldn’t be shocked if Rusin or somebody else gets a start in September.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I don't buy that "development/confidence" thing.
The Cubs, under Hendry, often kept young players back, at lower levels than they should have been.
I hope that changes.
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Which players were held back?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
And some times when you are held back, you really do need to repeat 7th grade....
And that may be true of these players.
Well, at least don't do it before September
The bullpen is already over-worked. Throwing in some starts of less than 3 innings without more arms won’t do anyone any good.
And then he brings up guys like Castro
Who apparently DOES have issues having been called up too early for no real gain
So the reverse we-suck-so-why-not argument?
My guess? Any of the other recent Cubs managers and most guys who’ve led big league teams would be starting Lopez over the guys we have in the minors. They might have pulled him after five, or not started him against the Cardinals. But other than emergency starts by somebody like Ryan O’Malley, when has what you’re describing ever happened?
Major league teams don’t call up kids — especially starting pitchers — when they’re not ready except in case of emergency. Call it a developmental philosophy, call it a confidence thing, call it a earn-the-right thing.
But this is SOP.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
by elgato on Aug 22, 2011 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Because right now, the system doesn't have any "future" worth looking at in the majors
It really is that bad…..
I was super pissed when Lopez started
the 6th inning. This should not have happened losing 3-2. The game quickly got out of reach which was very predictable as the Cards were drooling to get at Rodrigo……..
by If we only had Hubbs on Aug 22, 2011 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Quade
even gave buster onley a nickname during a mid game interview, called him bust. He is one of those people
If it was easy it wouldn't be the Cubs.
by Cubbinstrongsince86 on Aug 22, 2011 7:44 AM CDT reply actions
Seriously?
Thank heavens. Only 35 more games of that.
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we think.
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I can't see a new GM retaining Mike Quade and his minor-league coaching staff.
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Considering we have no idea who the new GM will be, I'll hold off being quite so certain.
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Mike Quade was hired...
… largely because he’s been buddies with Randy Bush and Jim Hendry for many years. He was Bush’s college roommate.
Bush and Hendry will both be gone when the season is over. What would make you think a new guy would keep the old guy’s pals?
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"What would make you think a new guy would keep the old guy’s pals?"
I’m fairly certain I never said he would.
I said I will reserve judgement until we actually HAVE a new general manager. I don’t have the slightest idea who Ricketts is going to hire. Neither do you.
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
You're right, I don't.
But my guess is that whoever it is will make a pretty clean break.
Remember that the last GM who was hired from outside the organization was Larry Himes — almost 20 years ago. Ed Lynch was already working for the Cubs when he was hired — then replaced by MacPhail, already here, then Hendry, already here.
This will be a very big change, whoever it is.
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Well, that would be my guess to, but I'm not ready to say goodbye to Quade until he's out the door.
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah we think
But – most GMs are going to walk in and find out real quick and new manager is needed.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Most GMs wouldn't have thought Gerald Perry should have been fired, most wouldn't have throught Mike Quade deserved a job
Jim Hendry is a bad GM. I’m not sure he’s so epically bad that he’s the only one who could EVER make those mistakes.
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
thought he said Bus....but either way,,,that was worse than starting Lopez imo
by cozmotaylor123 on Aug 22, 2011 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions
I did a root beer spit-take when I heard that...
Good for Bus. Now he’s in the Quade Club! After the new GM fires Q, I hope they can find a way to keep him in the Cubs organization. Maybe stick him at one of the Wrigley Field gates and he can give free nicknames to all kids under 13 as they enter the ballpark…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
by DKT on Aug 22, 2011 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Shawn Spencer approves
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 22, 2011 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions
It must be a sort of virus going around.
During the Braves broadcast yesterday, Tom Glavine referred to Tim Hudson as ‘Huddy’.
I enjoy this website because it's so interesting to see folks pole vaulting over mouse turds.
Glavine was a hockey player ...
surely you’ve heard how frequently NHL players refer to each other with a “y” on the end of their names?
Quade is guilty of plenty, but calling Olney “Bus” is not a big deal. We’re really picking nits when it gets to that point.
"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know. " Abraham Lincoln
Is so just don't call her that...
Might be looking for a new job.
Skipping Lopez
Our rotation now is Garza, Dempster, Wells, Lopez and Coleman. Lopez is actually our #4 starter, not our #5. We can’t skip two! Do you want to try Ortiz again? Russell showed earlier this year that he doesn’t work as a starter. Should Samardzija or Marshall get a start? I wonder where Carlos Silva is?
No, seriously...
… just skip Lopez the one time, put Dempster up against the Cardinals due to the off day. You don’t have to “skip two” in that situation.
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But you said "could you just please release Lopez" in the main post
I see your point about this particular start, but we need at least four starters for the rest of the year.
Bring up somebody.
Anybody. I’m tired of retreads.
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but thinking of next year....would the Cubs be better off
if their starters pitched once every 5 days or every 6/7 days??
if it would help next year…find a way to do a 6 man rotation this year….
by cozmotaylor123 on Aug 22, 2011 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions
But who?
This “seriously, anybody” stuff doesn’t really work given the years our top pitching prospects have had. I can see your point about Lopez last night, but he really hasn’t been as bad as you’re making out — certainly not so bad to simply release him with nobody else in the system.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Right.
Someone from Double-A. Jay Jackson. ANYBODY but someone else’s retreads.
And yes, Lopez has been as bad as I’ve been saying. He has made 10 starts. Of those, I would categorize two as “good”, three as “mediocre”, and five as “bad”.
That’s bad. B-A-D bad.
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You bring Jay Jackson up and I bet he hardly gets out of the first inning.
Seriously, if your team is this bad, you might as well send a guy out there who can get the ball over the plate. Lopez has been way better than Coleman. If Coleman is the best the farm system has to offer, you keep Lopez in the rotation.
Who in AA?
The only starter in AAA or AA who’s had anything that resembles a decent year is Chris Rusin. Jay Jackson has had a bad year, as have McNutt and ABD.
I know you fundamentally don’t like retreads, and that’s fine. But our system is devoid of anybody who can make the jump to Chicago and not get absolutely crushed. And Lopez hasn’t been THAT bad as a starter other then the two St. Louis starts.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
You guys have drawn your line in the sand.
But look at Lopez’s results as a starter and tell me that anybody in the minors would be better. It’s also possible the Cubs don’t want to bring up someone who isn’t ready and wreck their confidence.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
How long should be protected?
For that matter….jackson should be playing everyday right now as well…
They should be protected until they don't have ERA over 4 in Iowa or West Tenn.
Agreed on Brett Jackson. But that’s a different argument.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
There isn't anyone. The Cubs are really that screwed.
And the Nationals won’t take back the magic beans and return Gorzo.
Nick Struck has catapulted through the system and is having a good year in AAA so far.
Uninspiring, but solid.
I mean, I don't have a problem with Lopez NOT being in the rotation.
I just don’t agree with this “somebody, anybody!” stuff, especially when the rest of our rotation hasn’t exactly looked like the ’95 Braves.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
The "somebody, anybody" stuff is mind-boggling.
That sort of thinking ends you up with Russel making starts.
I think your newfound dislike for Lopez is a little unwarranted.
he had a rough start to the season, and has been pretty bad against the cards, but in his last 7 games he’s been pretty “good.”
As a matter of fact these are your words describing him
•Lopez threw well enough 2 runs in 5.1 innings. You then insisted a team might be intersted in him, and he could return a better prospect than we gave away for him!
•the cubs got yet “another” decent start out of Lopez with just one earned run allowed.
•In a game against the phillies one of the best ten starts for the cubs this year you referred to him as “Rodrigo Halladay”!
• the start right before that you stated “A tip of the hat to you, Rodrigo Lopez”
Give the guy some slack. He has been by far the best 5 man for the cubs this year, and not" B-A-D bad"
by Notsnud on Aug 22, 2011 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
They don't have anybody.
This site has been through this over and over. Rodrigo Lopez has been a decent enough #5 pitcher this year. Your vendetta against the guy is odd.
I refer you to the list of his starts above.
He has not been “decent enough”. He’s been mostly bad.
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And he shouldn't have started against St. Louis.
But he hasn’t been that bad against the rest of his competition. He’s had three quality starts and made it into the sixth in his last two starts (both of which were wins). This isn’t Koyie Hill blocking Wellington Castillo. This is Rodrigo Lopez blocking, well, nobody.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
by elgato on Aug 22, 2011 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well then, I refer you to his list:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/4336/rodrigo-lopez
That’s 1 excellent, 4 good, 3 not-great-but-not-bad, and 3 bad. I will take that out of my #5. Especially this year with all the other “SP” we’ve seen try to fill the hole.
by mic on Aug 22, 2011 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I interpret those starts differently than you do.
Two good, three mediocre, five bad.
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OK but then how you break down Wells & Coleman?
Worse.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2011 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions
At least those two have a CHANCE to improve.
Lopez does not.
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At least he's been "mostly bad"
Other than 1 start by Doug Davis are fifth starters have been " always bad"!
I agree with you.
The Cubs have no one. Their high minors pitching is bad.
Nick Struck? He is giving up more hits than innings pitched in the minors. You want to see him against the Cards?
Trey McNutt has 1.6 WHIP in AA. He has had a tough season. Let’s not make it worse.
Chris Rusin? OK maybe. I’m not convinced he’ll be any better but maybe.
As for Rodrigo Lopez, he is part of the reason Hendry is gone. Just let him finish out the season.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
None of those guys should have started this game...
It’s pretty clearly argued that Dempster should have started this game.
The team has 3 off days in September. They won’t need the 5th starter much. There’s no reason to give any innings to Rodrigo Lopez, and the same goes for Ramon Ortiz and John Grabow. There are worse results than losing, and the Cubs have modeled such all season long.
As long as there are innings left on these guys’ arms, there’s no difference in getting their first start at the MLB out of the way and having them pitch at Iowa. Struck MIGHT be out, but Rusin and Jackson should make their MLB debuts in September after the rosters expand. This also allows the team to be covered with extra arms like Carpenter, Maine, Gaub and Berg, as well as more innings for Russell and Samardzija.
One of the great benefits of Hendry being gone, is not having to see his mistakes finish out the season.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 22, 2011 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Will you also bring up pitchers for Wells & Coleman?
Because they are as bad.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2011 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Are you really following their argument this badly?
I’m not even sure I agree with Al, but your response is nonsensical.
Coleman is one of the guys you actually want to get a look at. If he’s bad, let him prove it the rest of the way. We know what Rodrigo Lopez is. He’s not a good starter, I get that you want him on the rotation next year (inexplicably) but he’s not good.
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
And Wells has been better lately.
It may be that Wells wasn’t quite 100% when he came back. He’ll be part of the team next year.
Lopez and Ortiz won’t. At least I hope they won’t.
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Eh. He's been marginally better.
Just three starts ago he gave up 8 hits and 6 runs in 7 innings. I’m not convinced Randy Wells is a great pitcher. I think he can be a serviceable 5th starter and he’s younger than Lopez
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
It's too bad.
I had hopes that Wells could be a good No. 4 starter, maybe even a No. 3.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
The point is they are in fact the best we have for "young"
pitchers and they are bad , Coleman is really, really bad and yet Al and others want to dump Lopez who at least generally gets 5 innings and throw Jackson or Struck or " any other warm body" in. Coleman WAS our warm body and see how that worked out?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2011 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
So the answer to my question is apparently "yes"
Coleman WAS our warm body and see how that worked out?
It IS apparently working out. Coleman is apparently cementing himself as a pitcher who has no business on this rotation, but he will continue to cement that for the rest of the season OR he’ll finally figure it out and start to turn it around. Had we given Coleman three good starts in September, we might have all thought we had someone comparable to Maddux (I don’t know how, but I’ve seen that comparison more than once on here)
There is NO POINT to continuing to give Lopez starts. NONE. Wins mean jack and shit the rest of the season. Bring up a youngster, let him pitch and see what the hell happens. If he gets lit up, then guess what? He wasn’t ready. Let him start the year in the minors next season and give it another go.
Lopez will be available next year too if you really want him that bad.
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
There's nobody in Iowa with even Casey Coleman's upside at this point.
All the guys there have struggled or are half-baked.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
So if they pitch we might ... LOSE?
Uh oh
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
That's not what I'm saying.
You’re proposing that we test the guys in the minors by giving them some big-league starts. I’m just saying that none of these guys rates as a strong prospect after the years they’ve had and/or the relative lack of experience that they possess. And you could hurt their development/confidence if they come to the bigs and get crushed.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
So they bring up someone to pitch from AAA just to see the future.
That pitcher replaces said Lopez. He only goes 2 or 3 innings every time because he gets shelled and Quade uses the bullpen even more. Then Dempster has to pitch longer than his 100 pitch count(that would be 6.0 IP) because of a taxed bullpen. We all know if Quade doesn’t get him out after 100 pitches everyone around he goes ape shit because pitch 101-105 is when he usually blows up. Why risk anything with the effective starters we have remaining. The season is lost, bring up people for September and make it a 6 man rotation and start resting Garza/Dempster a day longer.
by ubercubsfan on Aug 22, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Stick with Lopez and let him get shelled and continue to pitch 5 innings every time out.
by ubercubsfan on Aug 22, 2011 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Except that he really hasn't gotten shelled that often.
He hasn’t pitched well, but he’s been mostly mediocre. I mean, he won his previous two starts before last night.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
From a No. 5 starter,
mediocrity is about what you would expect.
I can see both sides of the argument here, but if none of the minor-league guys is ready, then what’s the point?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 22, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
If Z hadn't done what he did ...
then maybe you call up Coleman to take Lopez’s spot. But otherwise …
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Right
Instead of being down one starting pitcher, now they’re down two again.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 22, 2011 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I hate to say it
But at this point it appears Z is our best option for the rotation and he is already paid for. Antics and possible ch cancer aside, we would have better starting pitching right now if he were in the immediate rotation.
Well, he might be the best option -- on paper -- right now.
But I think they’ll dive into free agency this offseason.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Z has thrown his last pitch in a Cubs Jersey.
What I see happening with Z is a buyout…then free agency…then someone like the Brewers, Reds or Cardinals sign him next year and he sticks it to the Cubs for about the next 4 or 5 years.
Would it surprise anyone?
Good job, Tom...now on to the manager problem.
No, sadly
I do think he’s done as a Cub, and he should be done as a Cub.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 22, 2011 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, it would surprise me.
Let’s say Z pitches for the Reds next year. I could see him absolutely coming unglued when he makes his first start against the Cubs at Wrigley.
Also, I don’t see the Cardinals going there. Duncan could probably make him a 15 game winner, but how do you trade Colby Rasmus and sign Carlos Zambrano?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I think the rest of what you outlined is very possible, though.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
It does seem the bad far outweighs the good
We haven’t seen any team appear to have the slightest bit of interest in Z, yet we know he can do the job of at least 3rd or 4th starter, but his attitude and antics seem to keep the interest away. By saying he was retiring, might he have unwillingly done just that? While I agree that he is almost completely unlikely to wear the Cub uniform again, do you see any team that would be willing to take him on? I know Guillen would like to manage him, but the Sox probably won’t even take him.
My guess is that he winds up with an AL team...
… that won’t play the Cubs next year.
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If you use them in August, the short starts will burn an already overtaxed bullpen
And that could be more permanent damage. At least wait until September, please.
Yes there is value
Do you want Marshall, Wood and Marmol pitching every day? Let’s try and injure everyone of them.
The season is toast. Lopez at least can usually go 5 innings. What is the point in bringing up Struck so he can get hammered every time?
There is no value is seeing young pitchers who aren’t ready.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
and we have no actual idea if they're not ready until they pitch
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
What do you mean we don't know if they're not ready?
There’s plenty of people in charge of the farm system. I’m sure they are capable of seeing whether or not a pitcher is ready.
ERAs near 6.00 are usually a pretty good indicator.
So, Jay Jackson’s out.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Well we haven't seen him put up a 6.00 ERA in the majors so
theoretically how do we know he isn’t ready?
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
Great idea!
After all, when DeWitt doesn’t play LF, Sean Marshall can replace him!
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So you want to rush up Jackson, Struck
or some other totally inexperienced young player to show they do can be horrible? Great idea
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2011 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
You can make the argument ...
that the Cubs should play their best team against contenders — for the sake of the OTHER contenders. Anyway, the Cardinals clearly have Lopez’s number. Quade should have started Dempster last night.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Screw the other contenders - the Cubs need to do what makes sense for the Cubs
And risking damage to the only 2 reliable starters under contract for 2012, just for the sake of appearances in one game, doesn’t make any sense at all.
Based upon that philosophy
can we expect to see more of Hill and less of Castillo in September. Remember that Quade is fighting for his job.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
But Castillo won't get damaged catching in September
So by my standards the team should nail Hill to the bench and give Soto a fair number of days off.
Or was that your point?
Hey Al
Did you see/ hear any of Bobby Valentines comments about Castro not being ready in field while the pitch is being thrown?
You have been watching this team all year. Is this a regular thing for Castro?
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 22, 2011 7:46 AM CDT reply actions
I heard about that comment.
I think Valentine overreacted. I have not seen that from Castro at any time that I can recall.
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Castro...
had his back to home plate during the pitch that prompted Valentine to go on that rant. I love Starlin Castro, but the kid needs to get his head in the game more. And he needs a manager that will force him to.
by kanderber on Aug 22, 2011 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, Valentine went on an on about it which was a little overboard,
And then the camera crew for a bit actually had a separate picture-in-picture showing Castro exclusively while also showing the game. He did have a very valid point. You can see how Soriano has rubbed off on Castro. Castro does look disinterested on Defense. They showed him constantly reaching for sunflower seeds instead of watching each pitch, they showed him with his back to the plate during part of an at-bat, and they showed him with his glove off during a pitch as well. Things I never noticed, but really shows that Castro needs some work about being focused and ready. You have to agree with Valentine when you look at how many errors Castro has made this year. If he did these things but still had very few errors, it might be okay to overlook, but in this case, it goes to show that Castro needs someone to make him keep his head in the game. I’m sure someone will point that out to him now that it was brought up on ESPN.
Soriano Rubbed off on Castro?
i’ve always thought and heard that Soriano was well prepared and engaged…he’s just not that good in the (out)field. i’ve never heard anything said about how Soriano doesnt work hard.
and Castro’s errors i may be wrong in this, but looking at his errors this year i think he’s only had one or two since the all star break.
When?
when has soriano’s work ethic been questioned by people that matter? and TJ doesnt count. he just doesnt have the legs any more. you can see he’s trying..he’s just not good.
First one that comes to mind is Bob Brenly
But you are absolutely friggin hilarous! I mean seriously, too much comedy for me on a Monday morning.
i'm not arguing the guy is a hall of famer,
i’m saying the guy tries. the guy puts effort into it. his effort just isnt good. and the only thing i’ve ever heard brenly give him crap on is his watching a ball in the batters box.
I can't figure if you're purposely being obnoxious
But it’s widely reported that Soriano shows up early and practices a lot before games.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 22, 2011 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
What the hell is obnoxious about what I said?
I didn’t say Soriano doesn’t practice or show up early. He does seem to be lackluster in his defense, and I don’t see how you can argue that he isn’t. I don’t want that kind of play rubbing off on a future star like Castro. If you and epsilon love Soriano, great, but he doesn’t appear to give 100% effort, and maybe he is giving it his all, but the appearance of little effort is enough to rub off on others. BTW you will not ever convince me that Soriano is currently giving us his maximum effort. I honestly didn’t think their would be any argument on this, let alone the belief that stating so is “obnoxious.”
Saying that you're laughing at someone else's comments repeatedly
and calling them “friggin hilarious” is obnoxious. Especially when what the poster was saying was correct.
You know, it is possible to refute an inaccurate statement about someone without “loving” them.
Neither of us said that the guy is a stellar defender. But I’ll take the word of the writers and his teammates over you regarding his effort.
And Brenly never questioned the effort on defense. He’s (rightfully) commented on the ability.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 22, 2011 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
BS
And Brenly never questioned the effort on defense.
You’ve got to be kidding me. You both are hilarous, and I am glad you find that obnoxious.
Link? Citation?
You seem to be having trouble discerning criticism and damnation. I’m walking away from this one, because I’m guessing you’re ready to pull out the trump card of “’nuff said” or something like it.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 22, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ok
Soriano said he doesn’t feel the dropped fly means he has to work any harder on his defense than he already does. Link
every single one of those
validated my point. he is a poor defender, but he is constantly working at it. He is not sitting in the dugout while the rest of the team is shagging fly balls. his effort and willingness are there, he is just a poor defender. before this goes on any further you need to actually know what we are arguing…here is my stated argument:
Soriano is not a good defender, however, he gives effort and is engaged during the game, he tries. but his effort does not mean he is a good outfielder, thus him rubbing off on Castro is not a valid statement
Read the comments
I am not the only one who sees that Soriano does not give enough effort. He says he does, but that’s the point, he thinks he gives enough effort. His comment should be, “I will try and make a better effort to avoid these types of defensive blunders in the future.” Instead he just says he is trying hard enough. I see it when I watch him and many others do too. Apparently some people think he is giving his all and is just not that good. I am surprised peole think that, but hey, that’s fine.
TJ has been right all season long about Soriano...
And yes Brenly has said it before as well.
Apparently not running out balls is OK with epsilon.
It was ok with SenorGato too…
I think epsilon is just being funny.
Or else just contradicting for the sake of contradicting. But I am going to go with funny since I literally laughed out loud and one of my coworkers asked me what was so funny…
Tj, you've seen my rants here well enough to know
that its not. however, theres a little bit of a difference between watching a “homerun” than being uninterested and not putting time and sweat into something. my point is that Adam said soriano is rubbing off on Castro, and that soriano’s training and field work has never been in question on effort.
I actually had the thought that ARam was rubbing off on Castro.....Not Soriano.
It seemed like a closer comp to me.
I thought Ramirez rubbed off on Izturis.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Like this?
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
I honestly cannot remember seeing Soriano
make a real effort to catch a ball in the outfield that required some extra effort such as diving, running hard, etc. Those balls just drop for base hits. And this isn’t even debatable, I mean, come on.
He made a good play on Saturday.
Good throw to second to almost nab the runner on a tweener double. Barney missed the tag, but Soriano did make a nice play.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
yeah, my argument isnt that he's RJ or even *gasp* sam fuld with his flying catches...
just that the guy doesnt have the greatest skills to begin with and he is afraid of the wall…i think Soriano is a hard worker and i think he’s prepared and engaged he’s just not a quality outfielder to begin with.
Oh I forgot to mention
How ESPN also caught castro just looking around straight up into the sky. It was while Valentine was going on about his lack of attention. I couldn’t help but think that he looked like a disinterested little league kid. However I too love Castro, and I don’t think they should mess with him too much either. Valentine also mentioned that Castro thinks he can hit almost every pitch, and something about correcting that. I would leave his plate approach alone considering the results he has had, he almost does hit every pitch.
Valentine didn't say to correct Castro thinking he could hit anything.
he said that was a good thing, that you cant teach that confidence. it was one of the few things he actually complimented Castro on.
I agree with much of what he said, and the footage was pretty damning, but geeze, i think it was over the top. it literally went on for like 15 mins. He’s a kid, he has a lot to learn about being a major leaguer, but i think that is just as much a coaching staff problem. Castro is young, he needs guidance. and Valentine needs to chill on the 15 mins rip rants.
I was mad at and happy with Bobby V at the same time
He did go overboard, but I think the rant was legit. Part of why it was maybe so long is that Orel Hershiser wasn’t in the booth, so Bobby was the only analyst.
In my lifetime please!
...
“I couldn’t help but think that he looked like a disinterested little league kid.”
I thought the same thing, only then I flipped to ESPN2 to the LLWS, and none of those kids were doing what Starlin was. Hard to forgive what he was doing when even 12 year olds have better fundamentals.
I don't recall having ever seen
a more dis-interested defender at the major league level. Not ever. Routinely has his glove off his hand seconds before each pitch—has his body completely turned away from the plate as the pitch is delivered and the look on his face says it all.
Valentine dwelled on it way too long and it almost seemed like he (Valentine) was lobbying to show how savvy he is, but man—that was distrubing to see “the franchise” in that light.
"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know. " Abraham Lincoln
Dis-interested defender really nails it
I totally agree with cubfever. You would have thought after 10 minutes of Valentines expose someone in the dugout would have caught on and yelled at the kid to wake the hell up.
by Feenix Cubfan on Aug 22, 2011 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
My Mom tells me
when I was 9 I used to watch the planes while playing 3rd base.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Against the St. Louis Cardinals? My, but you must have been precocious.
Or was your point that Starlin has a mental approach suitable for Little League?
;-)
Wait, when Quade sits Castro, this place blows up
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 22, 2011 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Not the point.
I was responding to a comment that was suggesting that Castro be benched
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 22, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Shanghai, you're venturing into NotBruce territory with this tact.
The place “blew up” the last time Quade went off on Castro because Quade was hanging an entire game on Castro for a mistake when there was plenty of other mistakes made in that game including by veterans.
When Castro makes an OBVIOUS mistake, that is based in lack of effort, there’s plenty of rationale to bench him. I’d like to see Quade actually do it to the veterans too, but your mischaracterizing the argument.
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
That presumes Quade and the coaches
notice what’s going on. That was the point Valentine was making. Why the hell was this franchise type player acting like a 5 year old in the field. Where was the coaching? Obviously it’s something that the entire staff has failed to observe over the past two years.
It was an indictment of our player development and rightfully so.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
I noticed this during the two games I attended in Atlanta.
Castro was just not getting set before the pitch. This is a major indictment of the entire coaching staff. Unfathomable they could miss this.
I enjoy this website because it's so interesting to see folks pole vaulting over mouse turds.
Valentine
compared Castro to Barney, noting how our oft maligned 2nd baseman (at least on BCB) is always prepared, moving with each pitch, etc.
Numbers may not lie, but they don’t tell the whole truth (and nothing but the truth), either. -- Doug Glanville
when is Darwin Barney maligned here?
I’m interested in this answer
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think Barney was being maligned.
I think leothelip was saying Valentine was comparing Barney to Castro in a POSITIVE way.
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I don't think he was
our oft maligned 2nd baseman (at least on BCB)
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
I mean, he WAS saying that Valentine was praising Barney.
He was also saying that Barney is maligned here. I don’t think that’s remotely true
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh, I get it now.
You’re right. I don’t think Barney gets maligned here.
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Referring to Barney
as a utility infielder at best isn’t particularly high praise.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
It's what he is on a good team.
Unless he manages to completely play over his head for the rest of his career.
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
i think we're all in agreement that barney is better than Theriot
and Theriot was holding it down for the Cardinals for the better part of a season until they got Furcal in there….
Was that a short guy joke?
Fangraphs actually values Barney in the middle of the pack and puts his value at 2.1 WAR and $9.3M. That’s hardly utility.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
bb-ref has him at 1.3 WAR...
the truth is somewhere in the middle. Barney’s only assets are an above average BABIP, and actually putting the ball in play often. I’m happy to have him at second because the team has absolutely nobody better than him, but he’s a hacker with no power. He’s not elite for that position or any other… which is exactly utility.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Aug 22, 2011 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Calling him a hacker
is an opinion. Defining utility based upon your parameters seems biased. His BAbip is only .326, hardly the only value he possesses. He has an excellent BA w RISP. Very good defensively, good baserunner. He’s still a rookie and should improve. He’ll never have power. And he’s ranked by Fangraphs as in the middle of all NL 2B. Because he isn’t elite doesn’t lower his value to utility. We’d all prefer to have a lineup of All Stars but no one does.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
So who coaches the infield? They should have been the first person on this.
And how can we get some Barney to rub off on Castro (or Ramirez for that matter)?
isn't DeJesus the babysitter
You’d think Ivan would be all over the lackidasical attitude
by Feenix Cubfan on Aug 22, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Valentine seems smug and arrogant
But that guy knows more about baseball then I could ever dream. I learn a whole hell of a lot listening to him
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
i think Valentine talked about it for too long, he bashed him for a whole inning
… but castro looked bad when he had his back to home plate and was putting seeds in his mouth when Lopez was winding up. He looked bad too when they showed Barney getting ready for the play and castro was eating more seeds. If Castro didnt make so many errors it wouldnt be a big deal but he makes so many mistakes this made him look bad.
… and what was wrong with Valentine last night??? He looked really tired or sick or something and he seemed like he was just out of it. Maybe he went out to late saturday night but he looked bad.
Valentine was campaigning for the managerial job if/when Quade gets canned...
that was obvious. I was waiting for him to give Ricketts a dozen roses or something during Ricketts’ trip to the booth last night. And yes, Castro looked like a total buffoon last night and it was made worse by it happening on national TV with a guy like Valentine describing it. I hope Quade shows Castro this and sits his ass for a couple games. Unacceptable. Sori and A-Ram may appear to loaf, but, pretty sure they watch every pitch while on defense.
Good job, Tom...now on to the manager problem.
I hope someone shows the tape to Quade
He’s the one responsible.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Memo to current manager who insists on starting Rodrigo
Why does a fan in West Des Moines, IA know that Rodrigo is only good for 5 innnings at best?
You got five decent innings out of him, get him out of there.
Drew
9 hits in five innings isn't decent.
Just lucky to only give up three solo home runs.
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 22, 2011 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Speaking of sucking on Sunday's...
The Rockies beat the Dodgers 5-3 yesterday, snapping a string of 17 CONSECUTIVE Sunday losses. It was their first win on a Sunday since beating the Cubs 9-5 on April 17. Insert your own joke here…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
I thought we were sure to win with the score 3-2. I was wrong again.
I think our hands are tied on Lopez. No replacements. On to the Braves, 2 of 4 is my prediction but I never thought we would have won that series in Atlanta either.
Valentine on Castro. Proof was the cameras showing him stuffing seeds in his mouth while Barney was in a stance and positioning himself on the delivery. He went a little overboard, but hard to dispute the split screen on our two infielders.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
Why so much RoLo hate?
It’s a lost season, and he’s not blocking anybody from the rotation? He’s actually been decent, a lot better than you’ve given him credit for, just let him finish out the year.
He has been nowhere near as bad as he's made out to be here
He’s below average, but he’s not horrible. Hell, he’s within 4 tenths of Demp’s ERA.
I don't even......
What a compelling argument. Hey we suck! So instead of attempting to get better, find out what we have with younger guys we should just accept the status quo.
Nevermind, that’s been your argument all season
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
While I don't like the we-suck-so-RoLo's-good-enough argument ...
I don’t understand the blind faith that you and others that Rusin/Jackson/McNutt/Struck would be any better — or even only slightly worse. I’m not excited to watch Rodrigo Lopez, but other than the novelty of seeing a rookie make his debut, what would the guys in the minors do that RoLo isn’t doing?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
They'd be part of the future.
Lopez isn’t.
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No, they MIGHT be part of the future.
But they have to pitch better in the minors for that to be a possibility.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I just can't stand watching these retreads any more.
Give me SOMETHING to hope for. Watching Rodrigo Lopez every fifth day is just awful.
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I understand that.
Personally, I don’t want to watch Trey McNutt or another young guy get lit up like a pinball machine — and their numbers this year don’t make me think they’ll be any better than that. To me, it’s just as awful, maybe more so. At least with Lopez, the Cubs have a decent chance to win — I mean, he won his previous two starts, and they were in last night’s game until the sixth.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
And those wins did what for the organization?
Move us closer to 4th place?
The next time I watch a Cubs game it will be because I want to see how “insert name here” actually performs. It won’t be because I desperately want to see us win a meaningless game in an abysmal season
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
It seemed as if Al was talking about entertainment value.
Lopez, by and large, has given the Cubs a chance to win most of the games he’s started. The Cubs have been a lot more watchable in August because they’ve been winning. At least, they have been to me.
Maybe it’s time to call up Rusin. But none of the guys in West Tenn or Iowa have had good enough years to say that any of them would be better — or even only slightly worse — in the big leagues than Lopez.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Disagree on giving the team a chance to win.
Like I said, half his starts have been bad and another third have been mediocre.
How does that give the team a chance to win?
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How does giving a kid with 15 starts above Class A give the team a chance to win?
And, Al, Lopez won the two starts before last night! He didn’t just give his team a chance to win — he was the pitcher of record.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
But considering that he has pitched very minimally in 2011
I question penciling him in to the rotation.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
Cashner?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Not all the time
i remember a sox and phillies game he pitched in that were quite enjoyable!
Why? Why MUST they pitch better in the minors?
There was a post here not that long ago about how ridiculous the offensive numbers in the PCL are.
So what is the arbitrary line you’ve set for their promotion? You say “better” is it an ERA below 3? Below 2?
I don’t have blind faith in their ability to be 100% better than Rodrigo Lopez. I have a desire to stop wasting starts on a retread who has no future with the team. Wins are a worthless byproduct of the rest of the season. I’ve been saying FOR MONTHS that it’s more important to see what we have.
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jay Jackson's ERA is close to 6.00.
Struck has barely pitched above the Florida State League. That leaves Rusin — but he’s never been seen as a great prospect.
My guess is Rusin gets a start or two in September. But giving Lopez a couple starts in August before the minor league season ends? Meh.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
That is the point
The Cubs high minors pitching is bad. There is no one.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
My guess is...
… given the current regime, NO ONE will be called up and put in the rotation. You’ll see Andrew Cashner back in the bullpen, and maybe another reliever or two.
Unfortunately, as starters, we are probably stuck with Lopez.
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If there's one thing I hope getting rid of Hendry does, it's ending
this idiotic “starting every young kid off in the bullpen”
If Cashner is not able to come back and pitch in the rotation, then don’t have him come back at all.
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Cashner may be an exception
Coming off injury, if he is pitching in 2011 the team just wants to know he is physically sound. The bullpen makes sense. But if you point is that he should pointed at being a starter in 2012, I agree (his shoulder allowing).
I've always thought Cashner was better suited to bullpen duty anyway.
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Maybe. But given the lack of starting pitching depth in the minors ...
you’ve got to believe Cashner is being looked at for the rotation in 2012.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
But considering that he has pitched very minimally in 2011
I question penciling him in to the rotation.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
Very light pencil, don't press hard and leave marks on the page that you can't erase.....
But who else do they have? Even going all-in financially they aren’t likely to get more than one FA starter worth signing. That puts them at 3, best case (Dempster, Garza, and New Guy). What’s left after that is hoping for Wells to rebound plus many question marks. If Casher can stay healthy, he seems preferable to another mass dumpster dive.
The Cubs pitching staff
is best prepared for everyone throwing 2-3 innings other than Garza and Dempster. Let’s srart strtching out Shark to see if he’s a possibility for next year.
We can argue over bringing up AA and AAA pitchers now or staying with guys like Lopez. But the point is we have no one in our minors ready for the rotation next year. That leaves Garza, Demp, Coleman and Wells and TBD as our 5th guy if Shark and Cashner don’t enter the picture as starter. That’s a terrifying thought.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
at the current time we cant get two solid innings
out of Shark, he’s been great this year in the one inning- three or four batters-he faces. I say leave him be.
Look at his pitch log
He had a few rough outings early in the year but lately he’s been very good. What’s the harm at trying to stretch him. We need to think outside the box.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
I don't get it either.
It’s just frustration combined with a dislike of retread pitchers — even when there’s nothing better in the system to replace them.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Especially when it comes to Cashner
“If he can’t come back as a starter then don’t have him come back at all”? I guess the solution in that case is release him.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
NOBODY WOULD GET BETTER BY RELEASING RODRIGO!!!
That is my argument! Stop putting words in my mouth.
Decent?
There are 147 pitchers in MLB who have as many innings as Lopez and started at least half of their total games.
He’s tied for 19th-worst in ERA. He’s just bad.
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His ERA is almost as good as Demp and Z's!
And you were touting Z as a piece to build around before his recent “retirement”. There’s no reason that we need to see some kid get rocked, and even less reason to put more innings of wear on our only good pitchers just because we’re going for a nationally televised sweep.
There would be a reason if we had more depth in our rotation ...
and if there were more guys in AAA and AA who look like definite improvements. RoLo’s been passable at best, but he’s blocking no one.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
After last night's start, RoLo's WAR is Zero
He is the embodiment of “replacement level”, and at this stage of the season there’s really no reason to keep giving starts to a nearly 36-year-old pitcher who fits that description.
by Jody Jody Davis on Aug 22, 2011 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
But his minor league replacements
would have a neg. WAR?
If 16 of those starters are 5 guys
doesnt that put him in the top half of 5 pitchers?
There are also 30 baseball teams
and our Carlos Pena has the 3rd worst BA of all qualified 1B. By your standard he should be replaced by……drum roll……Brian LaHair.
Look, we know Lopez isn’t the future, but many feel more damage will be done to the prospects by bringing them up now. Hell, none of the guys mentioned are even on the 40 man roster. There is no solution for this season and it seems none likely for next. Let’s just take a deep breath and hope that the new GM is someone who can actually improve this mess of a franchise.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Castro comments spot-on
I think this will reverberate for a while….the rant went on and on. i don’t think it’s asking too much for an infielder to pay attention on defense.
I know two pitchers that need new homes.
This is a little bit of a reach. If we could trade Big Z for AJ Burnett. The only problem I have with this is the extra year. If we could either get some cash from the Yankees or some young farm player. With or without an upside. AJ may be better off in the NL. It would give us a quality starter who just needs a new home out of NYC. I would like to know some thoughts on this. Also maybe send Castro to the Giants for a young starter maybe even ARam.
Also maybe send Castro to the Giants for a young starter maybe even ARam.
Wait, what?
Also, I don’t think the Yankees are interested in Z. The Cubs have already tried this.
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You'd trade Castro, a proven 21 year old who is on pace to be the 3rd youngest player to lead his league in hits...
for a top 50 minor leaguer? Talk about the most wild undervaluation of the year….
Only an overreaction because
maybe nobody else around the league plays like that!
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Aug 22, 2011 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Another gem from Valentine.
(Paraphrasing). The Cub hitters expand the strike zone as well as any other team out there. Ouch.
He is and was correct in just about everything he said. And the Cubs kept proving him right.
Just like last time he was shredding the coaching staff on Monday night.
I guarantee that all of Cub management...
knows all about the Castro segment on ESPN last night. What are the chances of the Cubs giving Sandberg a shot now? Would he take it if they offered it to him?
"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know. " Abraham Lincoln
I dont know the whole story.
I heard he was angry after not getting the job. If he was angry then I dont know if it was at Hendry or the Ricketts. If it was the Ricketts then I would say no. I also dont know if he left of angry terms or just had a better offer.
by lshaffer_69 on Aug 22, 2011 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
He was angry at the people
who gave him his big break in the first place.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 22, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd love to see where Ryne Sandberg came out and said he was angry...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 22, 2011 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
He's really becoming
an 800-pound gorilla, unfortunately.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 22, 2011 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, honestly, that's on Quade.
I was in Quade’s camp in the offseason because of the strong finish in 2010. But I didn’t think that either Quade or Sandberg would be the next Terry Bevington or Jim Essian. Quade might not have had a lot of talent to work with, but he really has been a disappointment (partly, as Al noted a while back, because he brought in a shockingly underqualified coaching staff).
Quade was the guy in the position to make us forget about Sandberg. Now, I think Sandberg’s overly lionized on occasion, but there’s a clear reason why a lot of people think the grass is greener, Bruce.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I think the treatment of Quade
has been grossly unfair. People have been calling for his head since April.
I think he deserves to fulfill his contract, but I guess the new GM will determine that.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 22, 2011 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not a ledgejumper.
And I think Quade has been really bad, Bruce. Granted, he didn’t have a lot of talent. But his tactical decisions and his “control” of the clubhouse are seriously lacking. He probably shot himself in the foot by not bringing in a bench coach with big-league managing experience.
Quade hasn’t been the big problem this year. But he’s done NOTHING to justify returning in 2012.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Wut has Quade done to deserve votes of confidence?
… I’m just wondering. He has done lot’s of weird things like changing the lineup every day and leaving pitchers in too long or not taking them out in time. He doesnt seem like he disciplines anybody either and there seems like there is no leade5rship in the clubhouse.
Wut has he done to make you think he deserves to stay??
well...hm...
ill get back to you on that
I'm a happy panda.
by jesus christos on Aug 22, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
What you're citing
is more differences of opinion than a right-or wrong.
I think EG makes a good point about the coaching staff. I suspect if Quade stays, that will change next year.
Given the circumstances this season, I don’t think one year is enough to make a judgment. If things still don’t look good by midseason 2012, then it might be time to cut bait.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 22, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd rather evaluate
if he has earned the right to continue. You know…..that accountability thing we all agree with.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
That's on the cubs F.O.
should have saw it coming.
Come on, Bruce.
Sandberg gave the Cubs a HOF career after getting his first break. I think both parties are even.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Managerial break, I mean
Not playing break
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 22, 2011 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh.
Well, Sandberg proved to be a pretty good manager in the Cubs system, if you judge the W-L records.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Mike Quade
was a pretty good minor-league manager, too.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 22, 2011 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, that wasn't my point.
I was commenting on whether Sandberg owed the Cubs or the Cubs owed Sandberg. I don’t think either situation is the case, so if Sandberg did get mad after not getting the job, I don’t think he should be viewed as ungrateful.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Just out of curiosity
Could you tell us why you have disdain for Sandberg? I am not being snarky, but whenever the topic is him, you seem to have some sort of animosity or something, maybe you could share because I am just curious.
I just don't think
he’s qualified for the job. (And, again, no other team thought he was qualified even for a big-league bench job this year.) And I think many if not most people who want him as Cubs manager want him more out of sentimentality than reality.
I don’t want this to start another long debate around here, so I’m going to try very hard not to say any more about it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 22, 2011 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Do we know he wasn't viewed as qualified for a big-league coaching job?
I think you’re assuming a little too much there. No other team would offer a coaching job to someone who’s a finalist for a managerial opening. And the Phillies reportedly offered Sandberg the IronPigs jobs quickly after the Cubs hired Quade. We have no idea if other teams viewed Ryno as capable of coaching at the big league level.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
So because he was a finalist for the Cubs job,
no other team would offer him a coaching job? That’s really a stretch, eg.
All I know is that the Blue Jays showed some initial interest in him, and that’s it. He made a lateral move.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 22, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I actually agree with Bruce on this particular line
There’s no reason other teams would have backed down because he was rumored as a finalist for the Cubs job.
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
That doesn't mean I agree that he's not qualified, I don't know if he is or not
I simply don’t agree with EG’s reasoning
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Put it another way ...
how do we know that, say, the Orioles thought Sandberg wasn’t qualified to be a big league coach? We know that only one other team expressed limited interest in him as a big league manage. But the lack of big league coaching offers doesn’t mean other teams didn’t think he was qualified to be a bench coach.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Qualifed enough to hire him?
Apparently not. And there were some openings to be had.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 22, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
That's where the timing comes in.
The Phillies offered Sandberg the IronPigs job pretty quickly after the Cubs hired Quade. In other words, there wasn’t much time to even approach Sandberg about a coaching job AFTER he was no longer in the hunt for the Cubs job.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
EG, you're acting like Sandberg was sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring about the Cubs job.
If other Clubs had interest they would have let him or his agent know that.
I think he took the IronPigs job so quickly after because there was very little interest during the wait.
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
But why would Sandberg even entertain offers ...
for a coaching job if he was a finalist for the Cubs managing job? Moreover, would other teams consider him for a coaching job if they thought he was going to be the new Cubs manager?
Anyway, I wasn’t responding to whether there WAS interest in Sandberg for a coaching job. I was responding to this (emphasis mine):
And, again, no other team thought he was qualified even for a big-league bench job this year.
It’s highly possible that he didn’t get any big-league coaching offers. But to categorically say no team thought he was up to the challenge — given the timeframe of everything else — is a reach, IMO.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Sorry, but your argument makes no sense
But to categorically say no team thought he was up to the challenge
There’s a pretty easy way to tell if a team wanted him as a big league coach. He’d be one.
Are you under the impression that he turned a job down to go be a minor league manager?
IMO You’re reaching in an attempt to defend Ryno
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I was in the Quade camp last offseason, Nunya.
I’m just saying we shouldn’t assume that every other big league club THOUGHT Sandberg wasn’t good enough to be a bench coach because he took the IronPigs job shortly after being rejected by the Cubs.
I’m not a Sandberg apologist. But I think Bruce ginned up his Sandberg argument by making a pretty big assumption.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Again. If a big league club wanted Ryno, he'd be on a big league club
I’ll ask it this way, if there had been ANY interest as him as a bench coach on a big league club, do you think he would have taken the IronPigs job?
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions
el...we got a rookie manager now...
and are having arguably one of the worst years in Cubs history and now people want to bring in another rookie manager to take his place? Sometimes Cubs’ fans baffle the hell outta me. I’m with NBF on this…NO to Sandberg. The Cubs chose Quade over Sandberg once already…time to move on. I’d rather Quade stay than to hire Sandberg…and I think Quade is a god-awful manager.
Good job, Tom...now on to the manager problem.
Wait, wait, wait.
Don’t put words in my mouth, Ed. I’m not saying we should hire Sandberg to replace Quade. I’m saying that Bruce is making assumptions regarding the perceived talents/abilities of Sandberg when it came to big-league coaching.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Oh ok...
thought you were on the “Ryno Train”, that will start gaining momentum, once/if Quade is shown the door. Him we don’t need.
Good job, Tom...now on to the manager problem.
I really don't have strong feelings about who should be our manager.
Other than the fact that I think we need a new one.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Agreed...I have a couple in mind
but, will wait and see what happens.
Good job, Tom...now on to the manager problem.
My $0.02 for what its worth
I wouldnt mind Sandberg if he was the BEST option, i do not want a PR manager, i dont want Torre or La russa or some big named manager who has lost touch with this generation of players.
He's probably not even the right guy now, even if he is ready to be a MLB manager
This team needs a Buck Showalter type who is willing to be disliked to instill discipline. Managers like that don’t have long shelf lives – usually the team tunes them out by 3 years. But a no-nonsense, work-on-every-play-or-ride-the-bench kind of martinet is what this team needs.
Bonus points for using
“martinet” in a post.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 22, 2011 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Bobby valentine
applying for cubs coaching job. On air!
Why all the angst in this thread about "national TV"?
Who the hell cares?
Did the Cubs drop out of the AP Top 25 because of this?
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 22, 2011 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I've got news for you, TJ.
The Cubs have been a national one for a long time.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 22, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
At least we can hang our hat on the fact that
Soriano gives his maximum effort though. No slacking there.
Do you REALLY not understand how you're being obnoxious?
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Have you ever heard the phrase
Its when Im not yelling is when we have a problem. I heard this by high school coaches and in the military. I think this goes with Soriano. No point talking about him slacking theirs no hope.
by lshaffer_69 on Aug 22, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Except for the unbelievable fact that
people in this very thread say that Soriano is a hard worker, giving maximum effort, and putting in more off-game effort than most. They insist Soriano is anything but slacking, and I am quite honestly stunned by that.
its not unbelievable
when its true. could he work harder? sure, i’m sure he could run until he pukes, or go all Hidalgo on us and run until he dies. and I for one, never said he puts max effort into it, moving goalposts are we? i said Soriano puts in effort into the production of his game, he is aware and alert while he is in the field, that does not always translate into ability. he arrives to work early, stays late, practices his hitting, practices his fielding, which is my point.
Not you specifically
When I see his game, it looks like he is mailing it in, that is how I see it, so I suppose that is what makes it difficult for me to understand the viewpoints similar to yours. To me there is no way to defend him, he looks like he isn’t putting forth much effort, because he is not. But you probably aren’t going to find too many people who work with him professionally who would outright say that, especially since he is a nice guy, it is something you have to observe I suppose, and some people observe things differently.
It was 3-2 with Molina coming up and I said to my son,
OK take him out before something bad happens. Quade doesn’t even know his own guys. Bring up McNutt Sept. 1st and let’s see what he’s got. He was out alot with blisters, so innings shouldn’t be a problem.
Zambrano/Trade
Looks like the Yankees have a big problem on their hands now with AJ Burnett. He has been bad, real bad for them and makes a ton of money. Haven’t looked at the numbers etc but might a swap of headcases be beneficial for both teams?
If it happens, it won't be this year..
As was pointed out before, the Cubs tried that already and the Yankees were not interested. And can you blame them? They are thinking about their pitching going into October, that is not that time to be playing around with dynamite….
When you are going through hell, keep going- Winston Churchill 1940
Now is the time for a culture change on the North side
From the front office down, things have to change. And that is especially true on the field and in the clubhouse. I’d rather see the Cubs eat the [Z] money and get a couple prospects than to see another problem child here.
At some time and I hope really soon, the Cubs have to rid themselves of problem players. Getting one because he may be a less problem than one you already have has trouble written all over it.
Just win the next game...!
I agree
But I highly highly highly doubt we pay Zambrano’s entire contract to make him go away.
by cubsluver22 on Aug 22, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Now is the time for a culture change on the North side
Is Burnett Australian???
by DavidArthurKingman on Aug 22, 2011 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd rather see the Cubs eat Z's money
Enough of this “trading mistakes” stuff. Time to wipe the slate clean and start fresh.
Here's the number that i found
18 mil for Z next year and 16 for Burnett (what Quade would call him Burny) for the next two years. If we are going to deal Z it would have to be a deal like the M Bradley trade. If I was the yankees I would look into. The only problem with the trade is the 16 mil for 2013. If we kept Z we wouldnt have to pay 0 mil to neither of these guys. Also it might be good for Burny to come to NL.
by lshaffer_69 on Aug 22, 2011 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Quade would call Burnett "A"
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
I said before the game started
Let Lopez throw 5 and then pull him. He threw 5 innings of 3 earned runs. That’s all I expected from him and that’s as long as his leash should be. The 6th inning is what ruined this game for us.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 22, 2011 9:28 AM CDT reply actions
Valentine's rant on Castro was hilarious!
Sadly it is so true. This speaks volumes of the perception of the Cubs’ organization to the rest of the baseball world.
This is what Sandberg has been saying in his book and for years…that you “have to play the game the right way”. Very few Cubs play the game the right way…and it shows in the standings and in perception from around the baseball world.
Castro is, and will be a great talent, but dog-gone it, he needs to get his head in the game and pay attention every second he is out there on the field. I also blame the lack of perceived “coaching” to help him focus on good habits in the field. If Quade and the coaching staff aren’t aware of this, then they need to be gone at season’s end.
This is really another in a long line of embarrassing moments for the Cubs.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Aug 22, 2011 9:38 AM CDT reply actions
If Quade and the coaching staff aren’t aware of this, then they need to be gone at season’s end.
I think with a new GM, they’re probably gone anyway.
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You've seen every game Al at Wrigley in person...
…have you seen Castro do this before? Could he just have had a bad game?
I don’t get all the angst here about a kid – with a huge upside – that is still raw in a few places.
Just win the next game...!
I haven't noticed it before.
Doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened.
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I like the way Valentine went about it.
He was just explaining why Castro was doing this and somebody needs to teach him. It seemed to me that valentine was frustrated that nobody was trying to fix this.
by lshaffer_69 on Aug 22, 2011 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Valentine
is a pretty shameless character. Although they love him in Japan.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 22, 2011 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Castro would be better served playing second
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
If you disagree with me in any way, you are wrong.
Wrigley home run record
“The all-time leader is Willie Mays with 54”. I assume you mean the all-time leader among visiting players; Sosa had 293 home runs at Wrigley, Banks had 290.
Yup that is what he meant...
I’d bet my mortgage that Al witnessed over 150 of Sosa’s Wrigley bombs in person, if not alot more. :-)
"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know. " Abraham Lincoln
Yes, of course.
Among visiting players. I’ll fix the post.
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Valentine
was obviously campaigning for the GM job while TR was in the booth. I thought it was just hilarious!
"I lof to hit de home ron!"
I think Bobby's been doing that for a while now.
He’s been REALLY vocal about what’s wrong with the Cubs every game they’ve done.
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
GM? No way.
He was campaigning hard for manager
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
He is a crappy broadcaster
And probably realizes his days in that role are numbered.
Tom, please keep him far, far away from the Cubs.
seconded
I’m not a Bobby Valentine fan in the slightest
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Why because he called out our beloved Castro and told the truth?
#10 You will be missed.
by Bricks and Ivy on Aug 22, 2011 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
No, because he's a crappy broadcaster
And hard to listen to
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I like when he does the Cubs game
He know what is wrong with this team and he lets us know what it is and ways to fix it.
by lshaffer_69 on Aug 22, 2011 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
On Lopez and pitching
I am gonna have to chime in that very sadly, the Cubs now have no real bona fide pitching depth ready to pump into the MLB team – or to even throw in as sacraficial lambs – at the AAA level.
We are not the Giants, Padres, Marlins, Red Sox, Etc.
When we hear what great things Wilkins has done, it has not bloomed yet with the young arms.
There is no Mark Prior blowing every minor league batter away right now.
This is why we have re-treads and rag-armed pitchers throwing on national tv. Sorry you had to watch that, but it is the risk we bear as STH or anyone who buys a ticket to a storied rivalry such as Cubs-Cards.
Most managers, under the circumstances, would choose to protect the psyche of a young pitcher having to face Alber Pujols on the featured national game of the week, in defference to Rodrigo Lopez or Dave Bush.
And, we shouldn’t hold our breath for Hayden Simpson, imo, either.
I think we need to dump Soriano ASAP.
Every game I’ve attended since he was called up he’s buddy buddy with Soriano. I’m not saying Soriano isn’t a good person but he is lackadaisical and comes off care free.
I’ve never noticed Castro do anything like he did last night and people on here will defend what he did. However Valentine (whatever his intentions were) was right. That kind of attitude will spread throughout the team and I already see it rubbing off on Castro.
#10 You will be missed.
by Bricks and Ivy on Aug 22, 2011 11:43 AM CDT reply actions
So....so you're under the impression that Soriano is telling the dude he can slack off?
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
I never said that
I think Castro is watching him in whatever he does. I see those two together all the time. Soriano isn’t the kind of mentor I want for someone like Castro.
#10 You will be missed.
by Bricks and Ivy on Aug 22, 2011 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Sanberg however...
#10 You will be missed.
by Bricks and Ivy on Aug 22, 2011 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh FFS
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Ha
Seriously though. I don’t want Soriano anywhere near Castro.
#10 You will be missed.
by Bricks and Ivy on Aug 22, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
I think Castro looks up to Soriano..
..and if you think he won’t start to gain some of Alfonso’s qualities you guys are fooling yourselves.
#10 You will be missed.
by Bricks and Ivy on Aug 22, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Soriano's saving grace is that he's viewed as a good teammate/guy.
Soriano, remember, is the guy who took Zambrano to task for his actions in Atlanta.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I am just afraid Castro will turn into Hanley Ramirez.
i don’t want him to feel like he’s made it and just stop working and collect paychecks.
#10 You will be missed.
by Bricks and Ivy on Aug 22, 2011 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Understandable.
But Soriano isn’t some bad seed. He’s just a very fundamentally flawed ballplayer with a bad contract, worse legs and some strange idiosyncrasies.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
You don't think he has a lackadaisical attitude in the field?
I do. I’m not saying he’s a Milton Bradley by any means. I even said above he could be a very good person and teammate for all I know. I just don’t want Castro to model his defense from Soriano.
#10 You will be missed.
by Bricks and Ivy on Aug 22, 2011 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I really have a hard time understanding Alfonso Soriano.
Here’s a guy who came up with the Yankees at a time when the team was loaded with smart, high character people (the 1996-2001 teams). Soriano is known as being a good person who works hard and is well liked.
But he seems to be the least adaptable baseball player I’ve ever seen. He certainly pauses to admire home runs, but otherwise, I don’t really question his effort. He’s afraid of the wall in left and he’s a really terrible defensive player. But he’s always been bad on defense, and the leg injuries have made him worse.
I wish Soriano were smart enough/talented enough to refine his game as he ages — but he doesn’t seem capable of doing so. I think he’s the type of person who needs conditions to be very, very constant to perform well.
There are other valid criticisms of Soriano — his refusal to sit down when he’s hurt being a big one — but I don’t think he’s a bad influence as a person. My biggest concern would be that Soriano somehow instills in Castro that it’s not necessary to grow and learn as a player, but that seems like something that is beyond “elder player influence.”
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
See above
I had basically the same argument. People see with their own eyes, a guy who appears to not be giving it his full effort, and they deny it and make excuses for it. They will admit that he stares at home runs and doesn’t leg out singles, doubles, etc., and then tell you that he gives maximum effort on defense. It makes no sense. So he is unwilling to try to leg out a single, but he is definitely hustling as much as he can when in LF. Whatever. Oh that’s right, his legs are bad. I agree they probably are, but that is no excuse to give less effort, the money he makes should be enough reason to give extra effort, but instead, we see him trotting around. Maybe his legs are so bad that it is tough for him just to jog, I could be wrong here, but I just don’t see it.
Defense
Call it whatever you want but as much as effort I still don’t think Soriano is comfortable out in left. He can’t judge a ball and he is obviously afraid of the walls. He’s just bad out there for numerous reasons.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
If I played baseball
and Soriano was telling me what I did wrong I would flip out and want to retire too. Isn’t the pot calling the Kettle black. Soriano is good with the press and young teammates so that gives him the right to tell people they are wrong. I don’t buy it. We have Dempster Pena and Byrd those guys 99% of the time are doing the right things. i dont want soriano as a team leader.
by lshaffer_69 on Aug 22, 2011 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Pena has some really good traits
I assume most folks here want him gone to make room for Prince?
As shaffer69 aluded to Carlos seems to be a VERY level headed solid professional. His defense makes everyome around him much better and is taken for granted. There was a play deep behind the bag last night that he snared effortlessly—but more importantly, his throw to Lopez covering was perfectly timed and led.
I hate the .220 and all the K’s—but the guy has a decent eye and produces a lot of runs. I’ll sort of hate to see him go. If we don’t get Prince—we ought ot keep Carlos around if the price is right.
"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know. " Abraham Lincoln
"Who knew Randy Bush was funny"
…..well I did. I met him at the winter meetings in December. (still got his business card on the fridge). I sat in at an all day conference hearing from many men/woman in baseball. It went all day with lunch included. (highlighted by Stan Kasten – who is brilliant)
I had about a 2 minute conversation with him and he is all jokes and laughs. He had the whole room cracking up at some of the answers to his questions.
When he arrived he had been coming from a Cubs team meeting. When I asked how it went – he rolled his eyes smiled and said “well Soriano is still on the team”. Great guy.
Then again – I still do not think he should have the job. Interim is fine.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
That's cool to hear...
I love self-depricating athletes and celebs. They “get it”, and I love a good sense of humor, too.
I wish he was a better pitcher for us, but we weren’t going anywhere this year so he helped us get closer to a more attractive draft-pick.
Randy Bush not Randy Wells
but Im sure Wells is a cool guy too
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Won our semi game, 4-3
Bases loaded, 0 outs in the 9th and we got out of it!! I started a DP at 2b to end the game… Championship game Sunday!!
and in the TOTALLY OT
and who gives a -- department, we have daily2b, Ladies and Gentlemen!
Guess I should have specifically stated this was meant for Hammer...
Thanks, though.
by daily2b on Aug 22, 2011 12:49 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I met a guy that knows you
I was umping and he was score keeping. He said he has known you for years. His name was Brian and he said he played on the Bulldogs team.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Please send and future advice
in a private email. Thank you
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Next time Randy Bush pitches for the the Cubs send me a private email.
Love to hear how that works out…
by daily2b on Aug 22, 2011 1:00 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
We will be playing his team for the ship!
He and I hit HR’s in the same game against each other. Mine tied the game, his won it. See if I can return the favor Sunday… He is a cool guy, been competing with him for around 10 years!
by daily2b on Aug 22, 2011 12:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
You know what
Your comment got me to thinking. I know the team has Demp as their prankster. But I can’t recall anyone who was either self deprecating or just plain funny on this team or in the organization. Even Quade who started that way has lost his style of aw gosh.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Moreland
It just annoys me. He is not all that bad. I drove from Santa Cruz to LA to Claremont yesterday and listened to the game. About a 7 hour drive.
Say Pain. Say Ya. Now say Pena. It would annoy me if I were called Haimer or Hamer.
Oh and during Pat’s inning off he was visiting with his chiropractor. At least that is what they said. Its funny when Keith ask what Pat was doing.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Insightful.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Yet accurate
Chiefs Chat: chiefs.sportsblog.com
by Nunyabidness on Aug 22, 2011 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I still get choked up on the WGN 720 intro
when Ronnie yells “Yes sir!!”
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Remember when Pujols was 0 for 12 against Lopez?
(Link). That was awesome.
by Jody Jody Davis on Aug 22, 2011 1:26 PM CDT reply actions
No, not at all
My brother came home from work just in time for Pujols third at-bat. I told that I was 100 percent sure Pujols was going to hit a home run because Lopez sucks. Sometimes I just know when to call them.
by baseballguru589 on Aug 22, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmm...now that you mention it...
All but one at-bat of that 0 for 12 came while Lopez wasn’t pitching for the Cubs. And starting with that walk-off HR, Pujols is now 6 for his last 6 against RoLo (plus an IBB) with three HRs thrown in. So you’re right – it’s not awesome, and it never really was.
by Jody Jody Davis on Aug 22, 2011 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Cashner has been on the 60 day DL.
He will likely be activated on Sept. 1.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Carlos Pena on waivers
I am glad for this, but cannot imagine a deal that makes much sense in reality with that $5 million owed.
He will clear, and the Cubs will eat most of the $5 mil, saving no more than $1 million.
Hello Brian LaHair.
Hack Wilson IX
by KO Stradivarius on Aug 22, 2011 3:20 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Nope...Pena is gonna get a new 3year deal.
As soon as whoever we get to be our GM doesn’t get Fielder or Pujols.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 22, 2011 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Facetious?
Why would anyone give Pena a 3yr deal!!?? .183 average with runner is scoring position. Just a BAD hitter.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Just wait and see....
and bookmark this comment for later.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 22, 2011 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm Scared SWL...
but i’m not that scared…i’m thinking 2 year…I think Milwaukee had too good of a year this year for Prince to leave.
I also believe
that Prince will be in MIL next season and Pujols with STL. I think the Pujols prediction is most likely of the two by far.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
I have been saying all along
At least to myself, you’ll just have to trust me, that Pena will be the Cubs first baseman next year and possibly a year or two after that.
Then again that was under Hendry – so I at this point I am stuck in wait and see mode just like everyone else.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
I agree that Lopez sucks and doesn't belong on the team
but he magically made it thru 5 innings down only 3-2, a smart manager doesn’t look a gift horse in the mouth and gets the bum out of there after 5 laborious innings!! He does that all the time.
"Go Cubs!"
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