Cubs, Casey Coleman Continue To Help Braves To Wild Card
by Al Yellon on Aug 24, 2011 7:31 AM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
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So you know how I've been writing that I wanted to see more of Casey Coleman because he was more a part of the Cubs' future than guys like Rodrigo Lopez and Ramon Ortiz?
Ummmm... maybe not so much, any more. Coleman wasn't awful Tuesday night... but he had one horrendous inning that the Braves made hold up for a 5-4 win over the Cubs in front of a crowd that couldn't have been much more than half of the announced 36,639.
Coleman had been baffling most Atlanta hitters until there were two out in the fourth inning; up to that time he had given up a double to Eric Hinske -- and that was it. But after getting the first two outs easily in the fourth, he gave up an infield single to Dan Uggla and another single to Chipper Jones, and then lost his command. He walked Hinske to load the bases. He walked Alex Gonzalez to force in a run.
Do you know how hard that is to do? Before Tuesday night, Gonzalez had 16 unintentional walks and an OBP of .259 this season.
But OK, it's just 1-0 and there are still two out. Unfortunately, Coleman then gave up a grand slam to Jason Heyward.
Do you know how hard that is to do? It was the first slam of Heyward's career and until last night, he was hitting .179 since July 23 with just one home run.
Still, the Cubs didn't give up, which in itself is refreshing. They came back with a four-run fifth inning, highlighted by a home run from Alfonso Soriano -- his first in 10 games -- and a two-run double by Aramis Ramirez, who then scored when Gonzalez threw away Jeff Baker's grounder. Ramirez had the first five-hit game of his career and is now hitting .446/.488/.703 in 19 games in August, with five HR and 20 RBI. He's struck out only five times this month in 74 at-bats. Really, the Cubs have to keep him around; he's been the best offensive 3B in the NL (and one of the best in baseball) this season and the Cubs don't have any sort of ready replacement.
The Cubs' bullpen did another excellent job Tuesday night; John Grabow, Kerry Wood and Sean Marshall threw four shutout innings, giving up just four singles and a walk and striking out five, keeping the game close. That turned out to be rather pointless, as Cubs hitters went back to their old ways. They left five on base in the last four innings of the game (and nine in all), leaving the bases loaded in the seventh and RISP in the sixth and ninth. Twice, Marlon Byrd came up after the fifth inning and grounded out on the first pitch he saw -- and that was after popping up to end the fourth, also on the first pitch.
So, maybe Casey Coleman isn't the answer. Still, I'd rather see him get six more starts than see more retreads.
About the headline to this post: when the Cardinals came into Wrigley Field on Friday, they trailed the Braves for the wild card by 6.5 games. After losing two of three to the Cubs, and then the Cubs losing a pair to the Braves, Atlanta leads St. Louis by 10.5 games in the wild card race (and the Giants by 9.5 games). You're welcome, Braves.
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When Colvin missed, with his third swing, the third pitch he saw in the 9th, and the tying run on second, my only thought was: How very 2011...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
If Byrd and Pena...
…are part of the 2012 team, I’ll catch up with everyone in 2013.
If he keeps swinging at the first pitch...
then possible yes!
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Aug 24, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
No he's not...
Jackson will be up when he’s ready and Byrd will slide to RF.
I would like to see Byrd moved to left if he remains...
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
The best paid equipment manager in the NL?
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
by NobodySpecial on Aug 24, 2011 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Aramis - too little too late
Sure, he’s tearing the cover off the ball NOW! Where was this production in April and May? I agree that he’s a major talent when he gets locked in – I just cringe thinking about the Cubs getting off to another slow start in 2012.
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
I am worried about his leadership and/or clubhouse presence
Yes, he is a great hitter when he is locked in but I worry about his effort and his leadership.
The dude can hit...
…when he wants to and the problem is, the last few years, he only wants to when the games are meaningless. That is not what you want from your best hitter!
From a personality standpoint, Ramirez is not a guy who wants to be the “go to guy” and that is pretty clear. He is also not a leader by any stretch of the imagination.
Ramirez would be fine on a team that had other guys that were better leaders and were also guys that could take the focus off of him. For the last couple of years, he was abscent when his team needed him most and then simply accumulated stats after the horse was out of the barn.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
This whole "only wants to hit well when the games are meaningless"
Is one of the dumbest memes on BCB.
by bdlugz on Aug 24, 2011 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Agreed but no Raimrez
with no Fielder and Pujols guarantees a whole slow 2012 season not just April and May.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
Right.
Ramirez provides production AND a recognizable star player to the team.
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Yes he provides production
maybe I am reading into it too much, but are you not worried about his slow starts and his lack of effort sometimes?
In response, I ask you...
… would you rather see a platoon of Jeff Baker and Blake DeWitt at 3B next year?
Because that’s what you’re likely to get if Ramirez isn’t retained.
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by Al Yellon on Aug 24, 2011 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Baker/DeWitt is the low road
and would cement the notion they are building through the draft and internal development cycle.
Just win the next game...!
And lose 120 games next year.
The Cubs are a big market team.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
by rlpete on Aug 24, 2011 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Big Market Team
What does that mean exactly? Spend money on contracts so that you won’t lose 120 you’ll lose 90 just so some fans won’t be as pissed off? I’m fine losing 120 IF its done to set the club up for a decade or longer run instead of spending money on some also rans so the team only loses X amount of games.
If my posts here don't make any sense just think what my tweets are like @cubsncards
Doesn't mean they have to spend like a drunken sailor
There’s smart big money and dumb big money. Lately the Cubs fall into the latter category.
Just win the next game...!
With a new GM, I think there will be major changes on the roster.
Every day is a beautiful day for baseball!!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 24, 2011 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions
major changes, sure, but there is no 3rd base option on the FA market
Aram’s caliber, nor are there any in the minors.
But Al
Isn’t this the sort of thing we’ve been talking about all year that needs to be changed? The whole idea of turning a blind eye to the superstars if they produce is just reinforcing the negative atmosphere, and the losing culture.
Ramirez, as hot as he has been, has consistently showed over the past few years his lack of effort and hustle. I see an amlost apathetic attitude coming from him.
He got ripped to shreds in several of posts on this site for not waving his NTC/ 10-5 rights. Everyone said he was selfish and just wanted to play out the string. Some even suggested that he didn’t want to go to a contender because he might not be able to just loaf around with another team.
What has changed? Just because he got hot?
random thoughts aplenty: @crouch17
Damned if you do, damned if you don't
If he expresses a desire to stay with the team and play it out, he’s selfish and just wants to loaf for the rest of the season. If he tries to push a trade he wants out of Chicago so he can go be lazy somewhere else.
Look, if you don’t want Aramis Ramirez back because you think he’s lazy, please, tell Tom Ricketts that. You will get laughed out of his office, just like you would if you said that to any GM or manager in baseball. Why? Because players like Aramis are the key components to winning baseball team. I don’t want a 100-loss team full of Ryan Theriots that hustles to first on weak groundouts. I want a winning team full of guys who are capable offensive performers.
The losing culture is filling a team full of AAA or AAAA players, re-tread starters, and players with bloated contracts. It is NOT Aramis Ramirez, the most valuable offensive performer on this team, both this year, and for many years. Good lord.
Just because he got ripped to shreds for not waiving 10/5 rights...
Doesn’t mean the people ripping him were correct to do so. The ideas floated that we should bench him were pulled from a very poorly written article and pushed as an agenda here to the people who are just plain angry about everything. It was a stupid idea then, it’s a stupid idea now, and the MLBPA would have had our asses if we tried that.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
al- please, please don’t say that. Signing Ramirez option is a no-brainer.
No way, Dewitt/baker platoon would that happen.
Please tell me why Blake DeWitt is even on the roster?
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
To play left
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
by NobodySpecial on Aug 24, 2011 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
We certainly wont want Pujols then... the guy didn't start heating up until June either.
Mar/April: .245/.305/.453/.758
May: .288/.365/.387/.752
Ramirez during that time:
Mar/April: .295/.358/.400/.758
May: .283/.333/.391/.725
God forbid we get Pujols or Fielder and they have a rough start… It’s hardly Ramirez’s fault that the Cubs rely on him almost entirely to fuel the offense. People go through slumps, even the greatest hitter of our generation. To argue that bringing him back on a 1 year option is a bad idea because he had a slow start to 2011 is pretty ridiculous. We don’t focus on Pujol’s slump as much because he had Berkman and co. carry that offense. The sad fact is, the Cubs major issue isn’t that Ramirez slumped, it’s that we have no one to back him up in the middle of the order when he does slump (which he will, because EVERY major league player goes through them).
by bdlugz on Aug 24, 2011 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 13 recs
Listen
I’m not saying we should or shouldn’t bring him back next year.
I don’t even care that he started off slow, it happens. I’m more focusing on his lack of effort and lazy attitude. Do we really still want that behavior to not only be accepted, but praised (in the form of a $16m option)?
What if Soriano hit 40 HRs? Would people still want him back?
random thoughts aplenty: @crouch17
Yes
I want Aramis Ramirez and his remarkably consistent production back, particularly because I don’t see inside the clubhouse or know what goes on there. I don’t pretend to understand whether or not a player is “lazy” or lacks a good work ethic from what I see on television.
You don’t know that Aramis Ramirez has a lazy attitude. You’re just basing that on a few instances where you subjectively thought he needed to give more effort, and ignoring the times he does dive or run hard.
by markrvdl on Aug 24, 2011 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I wasn't trying to single out Aramis for his slow start...
because you’re right, Pena and others were also horribly sllllllllllllloooooow out of the gate. We had two starting pitchers go down and then the Cubs dug themselves a hole they couldn’t get out of. My point is we need guys to deliver halfway decent production in April and May otherwise the season is over!!
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
It's also worth noting that during his "terrible April/May"
Ramirez’s OPS was actually still above league average. He’s now leading all 3B in baseball in OPS, 3rd in BA, 5th in OBP, and 1st in SLG.
by bdlugz on Aug 24, 2011 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes
yes and yes. Rami desperately needs some help in this lineup. Sori ain’t it, either.
(How am I doing in applying for the manger job? Nicknames good enough?)
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run FOR Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
It wasn't just this year
He was horrilble the first half of last year too, which seems to indicate a trend. That said, I wouldn’t be against bringing him back because they really don’t have a better option available at this point. Just don’t count on Ramirez helping the team at all until June I guess.
He was also battling an injured thumb for the entire beginning of last year...
Those things take awhile to heal and can be a major nagging injury if you cant rest it properly. Those are the injuries that sound minor that change a players entire swing/approach.
If the Cubs hadn't filled a team
that was full of black-holes and multiple positions, they’d probably be in a position to contend right now, and Aramis would be carrying them to a playoff berth. Honestly. You and everyone else would be singing his praises. Aramis’ slow start is not the problem on this team, and it never was.
I want Aramis back - make no mistake...
I just want to see the Cubs learn how to stay in the race after a slow start. See Boston Red Sox, 2011
It comes down to talent, starting pitching and timely hitting. Three things the Cubs have had very little of this season…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Coleman didn't bother me because I know he's not a major league pitcher.
But Riggins really pissed me off. The kid walks Hinske to load the bases. Then he walks a run in. And Riggins doesn’t come out until the next guy hits a grand slam. This entire coaching staff is a joke.
by Rick B on Aug 24, 2011 7:57 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
The pitch that Soriano struck on in the 8th...
… …was at least TWO FEET OUTSIDE and in the dirt. How a supposedly major league hitter can be so consistently BAD is beyond me. Then Soto tries to pull an outside pitch (as he habitually does) and grounds to short. I gotta ask, WTF is the Cubs’ vaunted hitting coach doing? These guys do what they want to at the plate, time after time and frankly I am starting to believe the major malfunction with the Cubs is that the players are in charge, not the coaching staff or manager who are seemingly weak sisters.
I enjoy this website because it's so interesting to see folks pole vaulting over mouse turds.
If I were on the Cubs
I’d swing at the first pitch every time I went to the plate. That way, I’d have more time to sit on my ass in the dugout and chew on sunflower seeds.
At the end of his career
Ernie Banks went for that low outside pitch in the dirt, too. I see Soriano getting exponentially worse, now that he is in his 40’s.
by Bad Dogs on Aug 24, 2011 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Can we please lay to rest forever...
… the idea that Soriano is older than his listed age?
He already had to adjust his age once after 9/11.
He’s 35. He’ll be 36 in January. Period.
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Banks at the end of his career is at least as good as Soriano now
Or do you infer Soriano is too at the end of his career?
Don’t think he’s [really] 40 though he hobbles around like that at times.
Just win the next game...!
Last night...
…was the first time I saw Soriano make a real effort on the base paths when he went for that double. Where the hell has that been for the last 5 years.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
It was there until he suffered the serious leg injuries.
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Remember (like you don't already know this)
that baseball players playing hard through injury isn’t exactly the same as hockey players playing through injury, eh?
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 24, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Banks in '69 or '71?
During his last two seasons Ernie was the Cubs’ 25th man, keeping his spot on the bench warm in the hope he finally could reach the postseason, an event anticipated by Cubs fans almost as much as seeing the team itself in the playoffs. Getting Ernie to the playoffs was so important to Cubs baseball, that even when Banks became a full-time coach in 1972, word from the front office was that he would be activated as a player in time to make the postseason roster.
As it turned out, all parties involved probably would have been better off if Ernie had retired by mid-season 1970. In any case, despite Soriano’s limited production and poor fielding, he likely still could be a productive DH but, even if he remains a Cub, he isn’t yet our 25th man.
"Elder White! Look at the talent on those Cubs!" Harry Caray, KMOX Radio, 4/22/62
"And you have to wonder – What's the matter with Broglio?" Harry, KMOX, 5/24/64
Riggins to Coleman on the mound:
“Settle down, big guy. Bases are empty now. The pressure is off…”
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Right on...
…why you wouldn’t come out and talk to the kid after loading the bases with the walk is beyond me. That was a critical part of the game and the pitching coach waits until a five spot is up on the board to come out. What good does a visit do then?
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
One more thing...
…any manager worth a shit, would have told his pitching coach to go to the mound after three straight guys reached to load the bases and an inexperienced pitcher on the mound. That was the game right there and Quade sits in the corner by himself.
For people who think Piniella mentally checked out towards the end, Quade is making Lou look like he was significantly engaged. His talks after the game since Hendry was canned have turned out to reveal a guy who is thoroughly beaten and in WAY OVER HIS HEAD!
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Aug 24, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 8 recs
You see this type of 'hands off' approach ALL the time in the minors.
The coaching staff wants to see what the pitcher is made of and to see if he can get out of the mess he created. The parent club wants to know as well. It’s part of the maturation and assessment process. Not unusual.
What IS unusual and unfortunate is that the Cubs are charging some of the highest major league seat prices to watch a minor league process.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
Completely disagree...
…any decent manager would have sent his pitching coach to the mound (if he didn’t go on his own) after loading the bases after 2 outs, especially with a young guy on the mound. I don’t care whether it was a team in first place by 10 games or in last place, that is when you slow the game down and talk to the pitcher.
Tell me this, no one visits the mound after loading the bases or even after the guy walks in a run. Then, after a grand slam and all the damage possible has been done, you visit the mound? What was the purpose of the visit after the grandslam, if they felt a mound visit wasn’t necessary before the damage was done?
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I wasn't advocating that approach by the Cubs.
I was saying it’s done regularly in the minor leagues. And I was inferring that the Cubs current coaching approach is to manage as if they are still IN the minor leagues – while charging top dollar for a MLB ticket instead of the $7-$10 you’d pay at a minor league park to watch a game.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
Yup
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run FOR Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
Although in his defense
I’m not sure that I would want to watch this team everyday from that up close either…
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run FOR Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
Quade admitted he was a guy who believed in personal respnsibility
It seems that was the reason he allowed Coleman to fix himself in the 5th last night. MQ believes it’s not his job to observe, not manage. It’s never his fault. Nothing is his fault. Not Castro, nor the dozen of times everyone watching the game knew the pitcher was losing it.
The next time someone claims that a manager is worth only 2-3 games a year should be made to watch the entire 2011 Cubs archive of games.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Watching Cubs baseball
Do you know how hard that is to do? (In keeping with the theme)
It's not much of a cheese shop is it?
by lindo on Aug 24, 2011 7:58 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I'm kinda okay with Quade not playing Colvin now...
he just looks lost. i was hoping he came up clutch last night…i think the cubs have jerked him around too much and he’s lost whatever he had.
by epsilon on Aug 24, 2011 7:58 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Granted, he hasn’t started every night since the Fuke toss… But he has had chances. I think Moreland has argued recently he’ll break .200 thIs season… I do not think so.
by Grahamnation on Aug 24, 2011 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions
I've always wondered
ever since that bat got him if that was going to mess with his psyche and he’d have problems. Maybe that isn’t the case, but he definitely has seemed less confident since then.
Wow
I can’t believe I forgot about that incident, it was so crazy at the time… Still is. I wonder if he has personal things going on; wasn’t he just happily married last year?
by Grahamnation on Aug 24, 2011 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions
To quote Jimmy Dugan:
Do you know how hard that is to do?
JD: “It’s supposed to be hard. If it wasn’t hard, everyone would do it. The hard… is what makes it great.”
It’s just the Cubs do ‘hard’ the opposite of how most players do it.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
Kerry Wood has 17 K's out of his last 23 outs
by gocubsgo22 on Aug 24, 2011 8:05 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Wood has been lights-out this month.
Hope he keeps it up. I definitely want him back next year.
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Don't tell Easy Ed that.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Even Easy Ed would have to acknowledge...
…. that Wood’s been one of the best relievers in MLB this month.
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41 innings of 3.24 ERA relief, with 10.2 K/9 -
It seems like he’s been one of the best relievers period.
That said, you’re right – we look a bit deeper and see that his strand rates are just awful. 44% of his inherited runners have scored (7 of 16). Maybe he needs fewer inherited runners.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Make him a starter again!
I kid, I kid.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
How does Wood's...
… number of inherited runners per his total innings pitched, compare to other similar relievers?
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Bingo...bring him in to start an inning and he's fine...
bring him in with runners on and he’ll cough it up more than he won’t. My dislike of Kerry Wood will never change…Why?…flashback……..
The winter of 2002 , between X-Mas & New Years, a buddy of mine and I went to Maywood Park to bet some horses…we threw a bunch of numbers together on the 10th race trifecta and hit just shy of $4000. So, both of us being single and being on Christmas break from our jobs, decided to go to Vegas the next day. Well, to make a long story short, after 3 days of Vegas (WOW!!!) and pretty much breaking even, on my way out of the Casino, I stopped off and made a “sports bet”. The Cubs were, at the time I placed the wager, 65-1 to win the NL pennant and 100-1 to win the World Series. Call me stupid, but, being a Cubs fan and having some extra cash a didn’t really labor for, I put $250 on the Cubs to win the NL pennant at 65-1. Do the math. Granted. I can blame Bartman or Alou or Dusty or Gonzalez…but, Kerry Wood started game 7…Kerry Wood, and I’ll put it EXACTLY in his own words…“I choked”. So, every time I see that guy throw a ball it sickens me. And every time I hear “Kerry this” or “St. Kerry” or “Kid K”, I get this nauseating feeling deep inside….and as Paul Harvey said…“that is the rest of the story”.
Good job, Tom...now on to the manager problem.
So your irrational hatred of Kerry is because you made a bet on him and he didn't win for you?
Thanks… now I know it’s a stupid reason you hate him.
Yeah...the one you think is a "God" ...
…I view as a loser. And personally, I could give a rats ass if you think it’s stupid or not.
Good job, Tom...now on to the manager problem.
I view Kerry Wood as a "god?"
Hyperbole much? I think he’s a decent reliever and I appreciate him taking a home town discount. So sorry he didn’t win you your 16k. I bet $100 on a trifecta box with Big Brown in it… got the 1st and 2nd place finishers right, but Big Brown had to go and “choke” on me. I HATE THAT HORSE SO MUCH!!! Seriously, it’s betting, you lose more often than not, and if you go into it planning on winning, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.
If you hate Wood, you’d better hate every other player that played in that series just as much, because it’s all of their faults.
You misunderstand...
I don’t “hate” Kerry Wood. I don’t wish bad things on the man or his family. What I hate is the fact that most people think of Wood as this Cub icon or something and that they overlook the fact that the guy had the ball in game 7 with the lead late and a chance to put the Cubs in a spot they haven’t been at in my lifetime and he coughed it up. “I choked” was his exact words. Not “We choked”…and I agree 100% with him.
Good job, Tom...now on to the manager problem.
Easy there e.e.
Kerry would gave up about 5-7 million according to reports to come back here. He’s an 8th inning set-up guy who is extremely cheap.
He is a cubs icon. He had arm troubles, and had a lot of success despite that. Why hate, just to hate??
Couldn’t be a nicer guy who has moderately succeeded. Alex Gonzalez catches the grounder… there is no choke.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
phone spell check
obviously i meant “wood” not would. damn spell check
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
He could pitch for free...don't matter to me...
he choked in game 7. What happened in game 6 makes no difference. We had THE Kerry Wood on the mound. I wasn’t even worried. It was Kid K. I’m not really sure what pisses me off more…the fact that I coulda made 16grand or the fact that the Wood choked away a shot at a World Series.
Good job, Tom...now on to the manager problem.
Easy E
SO YOU BLAME WOOD??? Come on. Do you also hate ron santo? Billy Williams, Fergie, Sandberg…those guys never won a championship.
Marlins were a stud team, and had the momentum after cubs blew game 6.
Why channel your hate at wood?? i don’t understand. So a good player, never had a bad game in the playoffs?
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
So you hate...
a professional athlete for having accountability? Did you watch the series? You are backwards. What is wrong with cub fans blaming successful guys for the longtime failures of this organization. Wood is an extremely rare professional athlete today.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
by vin23 on Aug 24, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Kerry Wood homered in that game.
So, he didn’t personally win the game for you. He definitely tried to. He got beat in one particular game by a pretty great Marlins team.
Wood has had an awfully good run as a reliever, this year included.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Come on, Ed.
You know this isn’t rational.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Why isn't it rational, el?
People put Kerry Wood on the proverbial pedestal for no reason. If someone can explain to me why, maybe I’d get it. If he’s that “iconic” then why isn’t someone like Ken Holtzman (2 no hitters) or Rick Reuschel (who won more games as a Cub than Greg Maddux, by the way…where’s his number on a flag pole?) thought of in the same manner? They BOTH won way more than Wood has with the Cubs. It’s the 20 K game…it’s all it can be. Is it because he signed cheap this year? So, if he signs for more next year you’ll “love” him less? Let’s hope.
Good job, Tom...now on to the manager problem.
What's the difference?
Why do you disparage who we like. He’s obviously a good guy and a longtime cub who came from our system…when it was rare. He was very good for awhile. Is he a HOF..of course not. I’m not sure what you are reading into. Just relax, he’s just an 8th inning guy making 1.25 mil a year… grabow makes 3 times that.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Ed...
… no one is putting Wood on any sort of pedestal.
Most of us simply think he’s a good setup guy, who is also a good clubhouse guy. Why wouldn’t you want someone like that on your team?
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Oh, boy.
Your dislike of Wood is irrational because you didn’t get a big payout after his Game 7 loss eight years ago. Kerry didn’t cheat, he didn’t break the law — he simply wasn’t good enough. And you had money riding on it. That’s hardly a rational reason for the vitriol you spout about the guy pretty much weekly around here.
And Al’s right. Few on this site are sanctifying Kerry. We like him, we’re glad he’s on the team, he’s a good reliever and a good value. I think you’re making an unnecessary generalization based on the fact that your Wood criticisms are often debated.
In other words, we’re not rising to Kerry’s defense because we think he’s Greg Maddux Jr. We’re rising to his defense because we think your harsh criticism of him — and, now, your stated reasons behind the criticism — are irrational and out of line.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
by elgato on Aug 24, 2011 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Harsh criticism? Not hardly, el...
Irrational? Yeah, probably…I hold grudges. The one and only thing I can say positive about Wood is…he doesn’t pass the buck:
“You guys have to understand — about 30 minutes ago, I choked,” Wood said. “That’s the bottom line, I choked. That’s about all I’ve got right now.”
It really isn’t about the money, although, I was in the process of shopping for boats at the time, and that extra money woulda…well, in my best Chief Brody (Jaws) imitation…“I think I’ll get a bigger boat”.
As a person, I’m sure he’s a good, decent guy…as a player…just not a fan. It’ll be interesting this off-season with Wood and the new GM.
Good job, Tom...now on to the manager problem.
See my fanshot -- looks like Wood wants to return.
I’m good with everything you said — though you’re clearly overstating the Wood love (hehe) around here because you don’t agree with the Wood like.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Totally, totally agree.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
He's second in MLB all time in K/9.
Still, that’s doubling his career pace.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I really wish that he could have stayed healthy.
It would have been interesting to see what he would have done as a starter for 15+ years. Might have been some impressive career numbers.
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run FOR Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
don't equate all experience with performance
Take Marshall and Samardzijia, both experienced tough times starting but they gained valuable experiences that are now providing dividends in the roles they are given.
Coleman appears to be a future bullpen guy. Colvin simply needs to get as much positive AB’s so he can mentally compete next year for a starting/platoon role.
As for Byrd, he appears to be mentally mailing this in swinging at the first pitch…bring up Jackson and sit him, then let the new GM decide.
My guess is Pena is traded this month
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
I think Coleman is best suited as a starter.
Unlike Shark and Marshall, Coleman doesn’t really have put-away stuff. When Coleman’s valuable, it’s because he effectively pitches to contact, and can go several innings.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Agreed.
If the Cubs could ever figure out the value of a long-reliever, Coleman could be that guy.
That would also allow the Cubs to use him as the honorary Jason Marquis pinch-runner in certain situations.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
Byrd is a notorious free swinger
how does it mean he is mailing it in? He’s doing the exact same thing he did the entire rest of his career.
The problem is...
…Byrd thinks he is a power hitter.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
The problem is...
Byrd is the most ripped person I’ve ever seen and he ISNT a power hitter. How the hell can he be built like that and not crush the ball?
Doesn't matter...
…how you are built, it matters how much bat speed you have and the ingrained plane of your swing to be a power hitter.
Byrd has no freedom in his swing, looks bound up and that limits bat speed. It’s not unlike a skinny golfer who hits the ball 300+ yards, because he knows how to get the club hit moving freely and create speed.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
bingo, he slashes at the ball, not drive it
Honestly he would be the most valuable 4th OF’er on a WS contender…but he is not a #5 hitter.
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
Love me some bat speed
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 24, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Ripped =/= Hitter
It’s like the whole ‘roids thing. Taking roids won’t make someone hit a ball all of sudden, it just makes a 410’ HR a 450’ HR.
But you’re right, he’s ripped and it’s a cryin’ shame he’s not a better hitter. Luckily he costs only $5M a season average.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 24, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
The problem is
Quade thinks he’s a power hitter and will give us 100 RBI.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
It is probable that Pena is claimed on waivers
if he is placed on them. Unless that has already happened? Seems that there are a lot of teams that would be willing to take the remainder of his contract ($2mm or so?) with no commitment for next year.
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run FOR Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
I would think...
…virtually the entire roster has already been put on waivers.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
he is on waivers but it will cost them September's $$ and the deferred January $$
1 year/$10M (2011) signed by Chicago Cubs as a free agent 12/8/10
$5M deferred, to be paid 1/2012
Per MLB Trade Rumors
August 22, 2011 at 2:38pm CST]
Heath Bell, Jason Kubel, and Carlos Pena were placed on trade waivers today, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports.
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
I don't think Coleman is the answer as a starter.
Not sure if we have any answers for starters next year. I seriously hope we sign an experienced, durable starter or two. That is a big weakness.
When Aramcan’tmiss is this locked in, who wouldn’t want him back. He is just silly at the plate playing with pitchers. Brenley said last night he didn’t think anyone could get him out right now he is so locked in. I think what I have conflict with is early in the season he didn’t hit and hustle. Now he is hitting and we overlook the hustle. That’s OK to have a player that’s main attribute is offense. Just think he if had some protection around him.
Our bullpen is a real strength. Grabow not so much. The rest just need starting pitching to hold leads for.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
Trading for a starter might be one of the answers, rather than free agency.
One target I’d set my sights on: John Danks.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Z's retirement episode seriously changes the math, IMO.
Before the game in Atlanta, the Cubs had two good starters (Dempster, Garza), a guy who could be a No. 5 (Wells) and Z, a guy who is a No. 3-4 starter who is overpaid to the point where, unless he was injured or traded, he would have to be in the rotation next year.
Now, with Ricketts’ comments that he can’t imagine Z returning, the Cubs have TWO holes in the rotation and will likely have to pay most if not all of the $18 million for Z to go away. Maybe they can negotiate a buyout, but I still don’t see the Cubs getting out of paying at least half of that contract in 2012.
I think the Cubs will opt to re-sign Pena, re-sign Ramirez and go after two starters. They might try to get the starters via trade, but even somebody like John Danks is owed $6 million+ in 2012.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I hope you are right.
I see two holes and they are grand canyon like. It’s going to cost us not having a starter somewhere in the system that could have came up and gotten experience. I can’t count on Cashner right now. Z’s money will have to be taken out of somewhere and it’s likely we do save in other spots just to get the starters needed.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
$6 million for a LHP like Danks isn't that much in today's market.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I'd like Danks a lot, but i'm not sure the Sox would move him.
Chances are they are already losing Buerhle this off season. but if he was available i’d hope the Cubs made a call. Also Edwin Jackson may be worth a discussion or two, depending on the cost
Edwin Jackson can eat innings for you...
Although, the Cardinals just traded for him, and might not let him hit the open market.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I don't think they sign anyone until Pujols is locked up.
He eats innings, and stays healthy. Throws hard, former all star and he’s young. Would be nice at 3 or 4. I’d be ok with Garza, Dempster, Danks, Jackson, Cashner next season. who knows though…
I hope the Cardinals....
1. Sign Pujols to ridiculous money, and are stuck watching a replay of our Soriano fiasco in a few years.
2. Lose TLR and Dave Duncan this off-season to the White Sox, when Ozzie goes to Florida
3. Fall to the bottom of the division without TLR and no budget to sign other FAs after the Pujols contract.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
by SackMan on Aug 24, 2011 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think Duncan retires...
it sounds like his wife of many years is battling some sort of illness, if I read it right. If the HoF ever allows pitching coaches in, Duncan is a first balloter.
Good job, Tom...now on to the manager problem.
But he'll get a raise from that.
Let’s say he gets $9 million for 2012. That seriously cuts into the cost savings from the deals coming off the books. The Cubs could probably get Danks and Fielder/Pujols under payroll for 2012 — and things get easier in 2013 when Z’s gone — but if the Cubs want to get TWO starters in free agency, then signing one of the big first basemen gets really tough — unless Ricketts ups the payroll. And if bringing Ramirez back is a priority — and I agree that it is …
This is why the Cubs were really dumb to make certain guys untouchable for 2012, notably Marlon Byrd. I know he’s Jackson/Colvin insurance, but that $6 million might be a huge difference in free agency this winter.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I agree that starting pitching is what we should look at next year.
One idea that i think would work to save some money is bring back Ramirez and move him to 1st. Then resign a free agent 3rd baseman with really good defense. You open up money for more starters maybe 6 million?
Then you trade for Danks and that money covers his salary. Also you try to save some money by buying up Z’s contract. Last you take the 30million or so and get CJ wilson a better utility guy than dewitt and a right fielder if Jackson is not on the team.
Rotation will be Garza,Wilson, Danks, Dempster, and Wells.
1,3,5
Cubs need a #1 starter, a #3 starter (with z gone) and a #5 starter (assuming Cashner will be a reliever).
It’s going to be real tough!
Randy Wells should not be in the majors.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Meh. Wells can hack it as a No. 5.
Beats RoLo or Coleman.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
definately beats RoLo
I’d like to see Coleman (Cashner for that matter too) challenge for the 5th spot in ST.
Just win the next game...!
Not on a winner
Wells is awful. Sure he is a #5 on the cubs who are 17 under .500. He is a typical “loser” pitcher. His ERA IS 5.84!!!! 1.54 WHIP. YUCK.
Guys, we can’t fall in love with cub players, just because they are cub players. Randy Wells is not a young starter who is going to get better. He is terrible.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
we can’t fall in love with cub players, just because they are cub players
that’s a big reason I’m glad we’re getting someone from the outside for GM….I think anyone who is a Cubs fan has been guilty of this :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 24, 2011 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions
And with the right mgmt team in place this winter
a guy like Wells either improves a lot or next by the end of next ST (perhaps sooner) he’ll be gone.
Just win the next game...!
I'm not in love with Randy Wells.
But he’s proven he can pitch decently in the majors — even though he’s been bad this year — and he’s better than Lopez or Coleman. And he beats spending $7 million per on a Jason Marquis.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
He fits the 5 guy mold.
If they can bring in a couple of starters this off seaons, you let him and Cashner compete maybe a couple young guys, and go from there.
5 guy mode of a losing team
Randy wells is terrible. He probably has the highest ERA of any NL starter. I will have to check that though. He is also noted for boozing during the week. Let’s have standards
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Wells has 1 bad year
and instantly we want to throw him under the bus.
I think he came back to early and wasn’t prepared after his injury. Also he has having tremendous bad luck with his home runs.
He can become a solid back of the rotation guy.
Lopez
has a better WAR, ERA, and WHIP than wells! Just saying.
I'm not certain...
…Lopez wouldn’t put up better numbers than Wells over the long haul.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Soriano needs his eyes checked.
I don’t know what he’s looking at up there. It was obvious they were going to throw him sliders 4 feet outside and in the dirt, yet he’s up there hacking away. Whiff. Whiff. Same goes for Castro, who looks so bad sometimes at the plate he could easily be mistaken for Soriano.
What is Jaramillo telling these guys? Valentine hit it dead on when he said “The Cubs expand the strike zone more than any other team.” (I’m paraphrasing, I don’t remember the quote exactly.
Side notes, how about that cutter from Wood? Byrd made a great diving catch in the 9th. And seriously, who is this bullpen? That might be one of the only things to take from this season is how good this bullpen has been.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 24, 2011 8:31 AM CDT reply actions
Hustle
Soriano stinks at those pitches. However……….how about his hustle double!!!
Soriano had a nice night!
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
He did have a hustle double
and he did hit a homerun. He’s like Sosa. He hits the meaningless homeruns and when the team actually needs him to get a hit he strikes out on a slider 3 feet outside.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 24, 2011 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions
It started a 4 run inning, yes
But with the tying run on base and less than 2 outs, where was he? Whiff. Whiff. Whiff. Bench.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 24, 2011 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes, that's a legitimate complaint
But that doesn’t make his HR last night meaningless.
I agree to an extent.
The solo homerun didn’t make an impact in the outcome of the game last night. The Cubs still lost. Surprisingly, this year he’s hitting .269 with RISP w/2 outs, and .233 overall with RISP. That has to be above the team average. I guess what I’m saying is that homerun would’ve been a hell of a lot more meaningful had it been in the 9th with Ramirez on 2nd than in the 5th and down by 5 runs.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 24, 2011 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Right. But the opposite of more meaningful is not necessarily meaningless.
Winning $20k is more meaningful than $200. That doesn’t make $200 meaningless.
I just get so tired of watching him flail at the plate
when he could so easily end the game if he’d just be a little more patient. Pitchers don’t throw him strikes, because they know they don’t have to, they know he’ll swing at anything.
And no, $200 isn’t meaningless, but we’d alk rather have the $20k, right?
I think what might help is instituting a “Soriano Rule.” Where we’re allowed to load the bases before we bat in the 1st and let him lead off. Lead off grand slam anyone?
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 24, 2011 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree, his plate mannerisms suck
But I’m not going to piss over the one time he hits a HR because it happened when nobody else was on base.
My belief is that we're paying him
$18M and he’s earning $5M. For the life of me, why does he refuse to take outside pitches to RF? All this time and he still hasn’t adjusted to the pitches that everyone knows are coming in a key at bat.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
He's Typical
By now, we know what Soriano will do. He will go on a 2-3 week tear where he is unbelievable, then go away.
I don’t dislike the guy like the media and 90% of cub fans. He’s going to hit .250 and have 25-30 homers if healthy. It’s not his fault Hendry gave him a long contract.
Also, why doesn’t Soriano get credit for calling out big Z??!!
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
I actually gave Soriano some props for calling out Z
I said something on BCB along the lines of how I have a lot more respect for Soriano if the story was true. However, Soriano was also labeled as one of the main supporters of Quade getting signed to a 2 year contract, so theres that…
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 24, 2011 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm Glad
Well, if Soriano is making the Cubs MGR choice then we are all in trouble. I’ll say it now, I like Soriano. I don’t like his contract, but overall I like him.
He was awesome the first couple years of his contract. When he was hurt the first couple years, the cubs were worse off. I don’t know how we can find it, but the first couple years on the cubs, the cubs record was much much better with him in the lineup.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
He was better
but so was the Cubs’ lineup. The only thing that would ease the pain of Soriano’s contract would be if the new CBA after the 2012 season brings the DH to the National League. While I don’t necessarily think of him as a DH, at least he’d be out of left field.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 24, 2011 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions
No Thanks
I don’t want a DH in the NL. Also, look around the NL, there are plenty of bad LF…starting wtih division leading Brewers and Ryan Braun. Cardinals have Berkman in RF who can barely move. Pirates have had a 1b playing RF, Astros have Carlos Lee…on and on. So let’s not overkill Soriano. At least he has a good arm.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
I don't want the DH either
You could also include Alonso from the Reds (did you see him in LF last weekend at Wrigley? Dreadful). I don’t consider Braun to me as much of a liability with the glove as Soriano, and yes, Berkman is a gargoyle out there, but at least those 2 players are hitting, and hitting very, very well.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 24, 2011 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions
FWIW
Both Braun and Soriano have dWar’s of 0.4
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 24, 2011 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions
other than ramirez, castro and i suppose barney
the entire rest of the lineup goes limp hitting with runners on base. I hope the entire rest of the lineup is not starting for the 2012 Cubs.
The weird one who hasn't hit well with RISP is Carlos Pena.
He has pretty good numbers in his career with RISP, but not this year.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
i think at this point it falls into the 'disease' category for the lineup
Everyone is conscious of the problem, everyone presses more, and hence it gets worse and worse. Whether this really carries over from year to year I don’t know, it is really inexplicable to have nearly an entire lineup of guys hit so poorly with RISP in the same frickin year.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Aug 24, 2011 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions
I think you've nailed half of the problem.
Some Cubs hitters clearly do press in RBI situations. But I think, for some guys, the problem stems from a lack of patience. This applies to Byrd, Soriano and Baker. Soto and Pena, OTOH, are more selective at the plate, so I think they clearly press more.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
byrd infuriates me with his first pitch swing.
i wonder if there is a way to see how many first pitches byrd has swung at.
Probably not how many he's swung at.
But you could find out how many outs he’s made on the first pitch relative to other counts.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Byrd swings at the first pitch
about 1/6 of the time. His BA swinging on first pitch is .290. As we have chronicled, he’s hitting .200 with RISP. By comparison Ramirez swings at first pitch more than 20% of time, and he’s hitting a gaudy .406 first pitch swinging
by BeltwayCubsFan on Aug 24, 2011 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions
not to mention ramirez leads the majors in first pitch HR
by a large margin. Pena is #2.
exactly. the thing about first pitch swinging
and i get why it can be frustrating for fans, but if the batter is swinging at good pitches I don’t really have a problem with it. The problem is too often Byrd and other guys come up and just hit a pitcher’s pitch, drive it into the ground or whatever.
Byrd hit .282 with RISP last year, and .333 the year before that. Pena is hitting .163 with RISP this year, last year he hit .239 and the year before .264. Soto — .220 this year, .280 last year. What the heck is going on this year I have no idea.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Aug 24, 2011 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions
"First pitch, fast ball" was the Charley Lau idea when he coached the '70s Royals
But I think he meant both parts – “swing if it’s a fastball.”
I remember Theriot used to do that all the time
The pitcher could walk 3 straight batters on 12 bitches, and here comes the mighty Theriot swinging at the first pitch and gidp.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 24, 2011 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Ha!
I guess spell check didn’t pick that one up haha.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 24, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I was typing about Theriot...
Freudian slip, perhaps?
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 24, 2011 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Perhaps Friedman and the Rays
knew Pena’s time as a middle of the order guy were over,
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
"Do you know how hard that is to do?"
Well, these are the Cubs, I’ve come to expect them to do things the hard way. They add to their futility with every passing year.
Every day is a beautiful day for baseball!!
Soto sorta reminds me of Denise...
…who was the catcher on my daughter’s softball team. She threw out one runner the entire season – then she cried at her success.
I enjoy this website because it's so interesting to see folks pole vaulting over mouse turds.
That's both funny and sad
though I would like to point out Soto is 6th in the MLB out of qualified catchers in CS%.
Well, then, props to Soto for being 6th
I don’t hate Soto, I’m just disappointed in his mediocrity.
I enjoy this website because it's so interesting to see folks pole vaulting over mouse turds.
by BAMACOLONEL on Aug 24, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
He's not mediocre!!
He’s a top 10 catcher in all of baseball in his bad years… He’s a top 3 catcher in his good years.
whoa....
One good year, Soto should’ve been moved at the deadline and young guys (Clavenger, castillio) up.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Seriously??
2008 his wOBA was .371 and he was ROY, in 2010 his wOBA was .385. He was one of the top offensive catchers in all of baseball those years, and it’s not even debatable. He has a career .353 wOBA, which blows the average for catchers (and ALL major league players) out of the water. Even this year in one of his “bad” years, he has a .330 wOBA, which is above average for catchers this year. His .750 OPS is 12th in all of the majors for catchers this year. He’s 10th in slugging % for catchers this year.
He’s had more than one good year, and moving a cost controlled top 10 (in BAD years) catcher is a dumb decision to make, especially when you’re advocating bringing up two completely unproven guys to take his place. And this is coming from someone who LOVES Clevenger, but at least has some common sense.
trade'em
have to give something to get something. i’m not saying dump him, but cubs have to use their assets. Soto is easily replaceable from within their system.
Plus, I worry about his weight.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
So you trade a guy when his value is lowest to get a good return?
Makes zero sense.
Only tradeable asset
why is it his lowest?? GM’s have the same stats you do, so they should be in love with him too. I’m not saying dump him…but he can easily be replaced a seemingly strong point in the minors.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Because GMs are typically smart enough to know to use whatever stats fit their case best
A GM trading for Soto would discount his career stats and focus on this year that is a down year. A smart GM would wait until he was having a good year and then his current and career stats are able to back up their point.
It's a sellers market for catchers
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
But as you pointed out
He’s the 3rd to 6th best catcher in baseball. Do you suggest we wait until he’s the best? He should have great trade value. I’d love to see the new GM try and add a guy like Soriano or Z in a package and see what it gets us. I really don’t see a great dropoff in replacing him with Castillo or Clevenger.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
I'm actually happy with the Braves winning
Them, or the Indians, were the teams I hoped or figured would make it to the World Series. This Cubs season is lost, so anything that helps the Braves is good, I suppose.
Still, there need to be dramatic changes with the offense. Our lineup I still think is good enough, but it’s their approach that stinks. Everyone looks like they want to crush the ball. That’s an exaggeration, I know, but that’s the feeling. Again, the example for success is right there in 2008 where the team won it’s games like an aging boxer. You have to weather the storm and drive the pitch counts up. No pitcher out there is going to throw 9 strikes every inning, and yet something so obvious is missed by this ballclub. Make the other team work harder, and outlast them. That’s the only way I see this offense being successful in 2012, and my God, will that offense need to carry this team in 2012 if they expect to be anything resembling a good baseball team.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 24, 2011 8:45 AM CDT reply actions
Personally, I think the biggest problem with the Cubs is defense.
I’m not just talking about errors, range also is a big part of the defense woes of the Cubs. Defense is the cheapest thing to fix so it can be improved quite a bit for 2012.
With an improved defense, starting pitchers make a fewer pitches, allowing them to get just a little bit deeper into the game. This lightens the load on the bullpen over the entire season.
Every day is a beautiful day for baseball!!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 24, 2011 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions
???
Did the d walk 2 people in a row and then give up a meatball homer? It’s clearly the pitching staff.
Look at the staff:
3rd- Rodrigo Lopez, 4th- Randy Wells, 5th- Casey Coleman.
All disgusting, and wouldn’t be on any other ML TEAM!
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
We've seen a number of teams stress a strong defense
and build their pitching staff around this philosophy.
Instead of going after the high priced long term contract type of pitchers, take a look at 1 yr pitchers of the Jon Garland type. (Not him literally as he is now injured).
Every day is a beautiful day for baseball!!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 24, 2011 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Last Night
Defense didn’t cost them the game. The Cubs starting pitching ERA is either last or 2nd to last in the NL. That isn’t because of defense. I’ll say, they are absolutely average on defense.
Average @ C, rf, ss
above average @ 1b, 2b, cf
below average @ 3b, lf (and yes there are plenty of bad LF in the NL—starting with Ryan Braun).
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
By any measurement, The Cubs are one of the worst defensive teams in baseball.
Every day is a beautiful day for baseball!!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 24, 2011 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions
All of them.
Check out fielding stats for the team, and virtually any advanced metrics.
Sorry, don’t have time to look them up.
Every day is a beautiful day for baseball!!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 24, 2011 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Well
Lead the Majors in Errors
Tied for worst Fielding % in the Majors
Worst defense efficiency in the majors
Ok...
but you really think that makes Rodrigo Lopez, Wells and Casey Coleman or whoever better? Come on now.
Texas is down there, Milwaukee is down there…
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Better defense makes every pitcher's results better
If Rami had made a decent play in the 5th, we don’t give up 5 runs in that inning.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Empty Wrigley
I haven’t seen a beautiful night @ Wrigley Field in August that empty in a decade! The whole neighborhood was dead before and after. I think Ricketts will have to make a splash in Free Agency. In talking to the vendors, they are getting killed. I’m now pretty sure Prince Fielder will be a Cub next year.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Don't bet on this
I think Ricketts will have to make a splash in Free Agency.
Everything he’s said and done to date points to developing from within. Will there be FA signings? Yes. Will there be a Fielder-like splash? Doubtful.
Just win the next game...!
Well...
I absolutely agree he wants to develop from minors. However, his budget will not be sustainable without some reason for fans to come back to the park. I’m not advocating it necessarily, however, season ticket holders are eating tons of tickets. There had to be 10,000 no-shows last night or more. These are people that won’t buy next year.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Gotta be smart with the money going forward
Agreed on the tix angle. Just don’t know if there’s gonna be that $16-20M a year guy kinda splash. We shall see.
Just win the next game...!
I agree
I just can’t see the cubs budget being ok with attendance taking the plunge, that I believe it will take. I just don’t know how you market 2012 cubs with this high of ticket prices.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
My buddy and I posted this back and forth on facebook last night after the game
Ladies
Tight
T-shirt
Night
at
Wrigley
Field
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 24, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Just saying what I saw last night
Call ’em as I see ’em.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
by RiskyBusiness on Aug 24, 2011 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree...
…I wouldn’t bet on any “big” FA signings.
Considering it would appear both Zambrano and Soriano need to be launched, it will require about 20 mil next year just to cover moving them.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I can understand the hits to Uggla and Jones
And even the walk to Hinske – “he doubled off me before, I’ll pitch him carefully and see if he will get himself out”. But then Coleman must make Alex Gonzalez put the ball in play if he can’t strike him out.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
What I cannot understand is no visit to the mound by our so-called pitching coach
Until after the grand slam? Wow. Glad I wasn’t watching this game. The comments here are insightful enough.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
SO RIGHT
We were sitting in the seats saying the same thing. Quade and Riggins are an embarassment to the Cubs organization. You have a kid out there struggling and they do nothing.
Maybe Riggins was looking for sunflower seeds?
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
As much as Quade is a joke, Riggins might be an even bigger joke.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Change might be to is...
There is really no doubt that he is the most useless pitching coach in the majors right now. Every so often Quade has a moment where he makes a smart move… I can’t say the same about Riggins.
Do we know
if Riggins decides when to go to the mound or Quade makes that call?
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Coleman doesn't seem to pitch himself out of too many jams.
I don’t have numbers to support this… just a casual observation. This is probably typical of some young pitchers still figuring it out. But, until he shows improvement, he can only really be used as a spot starter or long relief. You can’t have him enter the game with men on base.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Casey
NO, he’s just a very bad pitcher with no MLB future. Sorry to be mean, but he’s awful.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
I wouldnt say he's very bad...
i was watching the game last night and even after the heyward GS he had some nasty stuff going…i think he has potential. i think Rothschild could develop it. Riggins just blows.
62% Left on base
70% is around the average. I believe bad luck and defense are making it harder to get out of jams.
It's a Quade!!
Every game Mike Quade makes extremely dumb decisions. Here’s one:
Baker up against righty (left up in pen), so they pinch hit with that puke dewitt.. You would think Quade would say ok, would I rather have Dewitt up against a lefty or Baker vs a righty. Of course Quade doesn’t know anything, so he doesn’t even think ahead.
Besides that, baker should never bat that high in the order if you have to pinch hit for him against a righty (which he is bad against).
Quade should be marched out the door today.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
I started making a list of Dumb Quade decisons back in the first two weeks of April.
i only got through the 3rd week of April, when I realized it was going to be A LOT of work to maintain. BCB readers were still giving him the benefit of the doubt in April. Although, the writing was on the wall in plain sight for everyone to see.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Also...
…when Ramirez doubled in the 9th, why oh why would you not pinch run Campana in that spot???
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
True.
If the game goes into extra innings, you would have had Koyie Hill playing third base in that situation.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Castro to 3rd... Barney to SS, Soriano to 2B, "Campy" to LF!!!!!!!!!
I kid, I kid.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I really want to believe that Hendry's a smart enough baseball man
to not ever hire Quade and Riggins to manage a major league team. I mean… seriously?
Dude, you actually hired these two on your own? Nobody stuck a gun to your head and forced you to hire these putzes? You may have single-handedly destroyed 17+ years of an excellent baseball reputation with two hires. Congrats Jim. Thanks for at least stinking up the joint bad enough to get fired. We needed that.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Didn't Quade hire on Riggins?
Or did Hendry make that decision for him?
Either way, it's an embarrasing decision.
Hire two idiots yourself. Or hire one idiot, and let him hire his own idiot.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
If Quade...
…told Hendry “I want Riggens”, that is when a GM must step in (for the best interest of the club) and use good judgment and overrule a rookie manager, wanting a rookie pitching coach.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Al you left out the most exciting part of the broadcast last Night
Your big close up
"...the name on the front is a lot more important than the name on the back." Ryne Sandberg 7/31/05
by shifafaontheside on Aug 24, 2011 9:52 AM CDT reply actions
That's pretty sad, isn't it?
That you said that was the most exciting part of the broadcast?
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Sort of OT, but all this talk about the next GM. What about the next manager?
Friedman and Co in Tampa, hired Joe Maddon from the Angels, who was also a major candidate for the Red Sox job (when Epstein hired Francona).
So, who’s the next Joe Maddon? Any thoughts around here?
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Ok...
1. Always understood and played the game right. How many times did he hit the ball to 2nd to sacrifice himself and get dernier to 3b.
2. Managed at every level of minors
3. Clearly has succeeded in the minors
4. Will understand how to work with young guys / rebuild.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Can of worms opened.
Other than your first point, the same could have been said — and probably was said — about Mike Quade last winter.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Not Really
Quade was a TERRIBLE 3b coach.
***I’m sorry, Quade talks like a moron. How could he pass a job interview. He’s borderline “special” .
**QUADE hates young players! He treats them like garbage
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Okay then...
What does being a bad 3B coach have to do with being a bad manager?
Inappropriate, you have no idea how the interview went and that’s not really called for.
How did anyone know that would happen? He’s been around young guys his whole career, the idea was he’d actually work better with them than someone like Lou. Maybe Ryno has this same problem?
None of your points prove a thing.
Well...
no one knows how a manager will actually perform. But Quade is not intelligent. How is that inappropriate. I’m sorry, I interact with tons of professionals daily, and if he was in any position of importance, I would be scared.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Tom Ricketts sounds like an idiot in front of cameras too, that doesn't mean he's an idiot.
Some people are simply not good public speakers. Referencing someone as boarderline “special” is inappropriate, it’s not really something that needs to be joked about here or anywhere.
by bdlugz on Aug 24, 2011 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wrong
There is a difference between “well-spoken” and a moron.
Ricketts is not well-spoke, but he still speaks intelligently. Quade is extremely dumb and a bad manager.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
He's a bad manager.
I assure you he is not “dumb,” or he wouldn’t be where he is today.
And actually, Quade was a pretty GOOD 3B coach.
Having watched him manage for a calendar year now, Quade reminds me of Terry Bevington.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
by Al Yellon on Aug 24, 2011 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
DeJesus Jr
Wow Al, I don’t have stats, but I remember wondering “who was the crazy bald” 3b coach. It’s hard to debate him as 3b coach, but I remember him being bad. Now, no one is as bad as Ivan dejesus.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Quade has been good when compared to most of our 3B coaches as of late...
Whether it’s good compared to other teams, I cannot say.
He was good compared to Dejesus and Kim
by lshaffer_69 on Aug 24, 2011 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
The precieved "goodness" of a 3rd base coach is more dependent on team speed than anything else...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 24, 2011 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
So we have one guy that can run
so he is perceived as bad.
by lshaffer_69 on Aug 24, 2011 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
This is something that slowly came to me over the last few months...
Over the last 3 or 4 seasons here there has been a ton of hand wringing and teeth gnashing about guys like the now gone Micha Hoffpower, Brian Lahair and a host of other Career AAA guys who some think will finally figure it out… and yet never really do…
They struggle, the flail about and end up out of baseball, back for another season in AAA and tearing it up only to fail again in the big show or off in Japan…
People point to how bad they are in the Majors but keep being given another cup of coffee and get frustrated. They point out the years and years of never getting over the hump and making a break through…
But Quade is given the job here after 19 (or how many years it was) as a minor league coach…
Quade is the Micha Hoffpower of coaching… Decent or good as a minor leaguer and abysmal in the big show…
Speachless...
The best reason I have is a totally cynical one.
If the Cubs bring back Ramirez and spend their FA money on pitching — and Z’s issues might prompt that — then there’s no money to sign Pujols/Fielder and do something that will be a PR win. That is, other than hiring Sandberg.
Now, the Cubs had better not hire Sandberg purely for PR. But it’s the only lockdown reason that I, from where I sit as a fan, can say that Sandberg is a definite win.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Really?
Didn’t sandberg work his way through…successfully? Didn’t he play the game the right way…which is EXACTLY the opposite it is played now at Wrigley.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Hasn't every manager managing in AAA worked his way through successfully?
If they weren’t successful they wouldn’t get promoted.
Playing the game the right way doesn’t mean you can get other people to play it the right way. There are plenty of former major leaguers that make lousy coaches and instructors.
Success is defined differently be different people.
Ryno supporters here are defining his minor league success by his winning record. In that respect, Mike Quade (with years upon years in the minors) has managed teams to a minor league championship, and manager of the year award. So, should he should be the world’s top managing prospect?
I just looked the the wikipedia of Charlie Manuel, who had all losing seasons as a manager in the minors. So, W-L record alone, should not be the indicator.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Or maybe Quade is just really really unlucky and Manuel is really lucky?
We should make a new stat similar to BABIP for managers…
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Quade is awful! Do you watch cubs games? He is a terrible in-game manager…makes out non-sensical lineups and doesn’t know how to use his ‘pen. He’s hostile to youth…I mean he is a COMPLETE ZERO
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
I agree...
the last thing this organization needs is Ryne Sandberg managing. You hire him…you’re stuck with him. Who’s gonna fire him?
Sandberg needs bench time sitting right next to Charlie in Philadelphia. We hired a rookie manager last year and look where that got us. Wanna do it again?
Good job, Tom...now on to the manager problem.
Will the manager have...
Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee, Cole Hamels and Roy Oswalt… Charlie Manuel was almost fired for sucking.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Not True
Trust me the mystique of sandberg would fade if he was a bad manager. I’d rather have him then a retread like Eric Wedge or someone like that.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Manuel was a retread of sorts too...
He managed Cleveland for a short stint before Philly.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Terry Francona was a retread.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Joe Torre was a retread too.
Bill Belichick was a retread also.
Sometimes it doesn’t work out the first time, and the experience is needed before major success can be achieved.
Or other times, success follows you everywhere, like Tony Larussa.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Sometimes...
…the managing ability of these guys really didn’t change, they just got put in a situation where they could win.
I believe this describes Torre’s success with the Yanks.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
So you are saying...
Flip a coin? Charlie Manuel is hated by many many phils fans. As far as Torre, I’ll never give Yanks GM or Manager much credit either.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
I'm saying...
…you have to look at the totality of the information.
Torre had a long managing career before he joined the Yanks and was below .500. All of a sudden, he is crowned a genius after winning some championships with the Yanks. Did Torre really all of a sudden become a better manager? I don’t think so, I believe he was lucky to be in a situation where he (and probably many others) could win.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I know you know this, MPH ...
but I doubt Torre was hired simply based on his record pre-1996. The Yankees evaluated him in total, and figured he would be a good fit for their team.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Different Teams
There are manager who know how to handle talent, and those who can develop talent. I think there are questions and philosophies that need to be asked of Ryno or anyone, but I defer to his fundamentals and work ethic, w/o knowing the interview answers.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
There is no question that Ryne Sandberg is a good man.
He was my favorite player growing up. But you have no idea how he’d perform on a big league club with guys who are making $18 million a year.
Have you even watched a game Sandberg has managed in the minors?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I agree...
…which goes back to the basic point; even good managers usually don’t do to well, when they don’t have what they need to win.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Right. You have to gauge them based on more than their records.
Which is why judging Sandberg (or anybody without big league managing experience) is very difficult from where you and I are sitting.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Bill Belichick is still a retread
He hasn’t won a SB since he got caught cheating.
by lshaffer_69 on Aug 24, 2011 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
If you're assessing Sandberg as a future big-league manager ...
he has just ONE thing going for him that Quade didn’t have a year ago. And that’s a HOF career — which doesn’t always translate to being a good manager.
Now, I have a feeling Sandberg would be better than Quade, because Quade has been really bad. But I don’t think there’s enough information right now to indicate that Sandberg will be a great manager. Frankly — from where we’re all sitting — it’s really hard to say either way.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Anybody
That goes for anyone! The hardest thing to judge is a manager before you watch his daily moves.
I have confidence Sandberg would teach defense, good base running and fundamentals.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Thats good...
…but again, those things need to be drilled home before they get to the big league level. This is something the Cubs need to be much more concerned about.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Then name...
name a candidate or two and why. Don’t just be a hater, because guys on the score don’t want sandberg.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Not anyone.
Guys with big-league managing experience are more known quantities. Sandberg, like Quade a year ago, is an unknown as far as how he would perform as a big league manager.
When people like you and me try to make these calls — Quade brings energy! Sandberg will stress fundamentals! — we’re doing so without access to the individuals, which is more important because we’ve never actually seen them manage.
So, I’d submit that your high praise of Sandberg when it comes to his ability to manage a big-league club is based almost entirely on correct information that might not apply.
Here’s my point: Maybe Sandberg is the right guy to get the managing job, but what you’re presenting as evidence isn’t really evidence. I thought Quade was going to be good based on similar credentials — and he’s been terrible.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
by elgato on Aug 24, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Check Your Eyes
Me, nor any of my other cub fanatics had one ounce of faith in Quade after last year. Every single person I knew, cringed when he got the job.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Check your attitude.
The Cubs went 24-13 under Quade. And other than starting Koyie Hill too often, there were few decisions that raised much ire.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
by elgato on Aug 24, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think alot of people were like "huh?" and just shrugged their shoulders and hoped for the best with Quade...
and then the season started and dumb stuff started coming out of his mouth and spilling onto the field.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 24, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
In August 2010, that's absolutely true.
But other than the Koyie Hill stuff, was there a groundswell of people questioning Quade’s competency after the season? There were some Sandberg fans, sure, but no one thought Quade was this dim-witted.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Yes
Elgato-Yes yes!! Everyone I knew didn’t even think he had a chance to manage in 2011! I was shocked that he was pretty much given the job
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
That certainly wasn't the discussion around here.
And how much of your shock was due to love for Sandberg rather than your assessment of Quade?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
More on point ...
What about Quade’s performance in 2010 made you pause?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Plenty
First off, it was like coaching spring training…games were pointless. Do I remember in game decisions from last year…thankfully no.
Quade never struck me as a MLB manager
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Wait.
So, plenty (of something) gave you pause during Quade’s 37 games managing in 2010 — but you don’t remember what those things were to actually make your argument?
Got it.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
by elgato on Aug 24, 2011 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
If you think...
i can remember game situations from last september, then you are mistaken. I remember overall reasons of my opinion. He didn’t pass my eye test.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
This is making my head hurt.
You said everyone you knew (a year ago) figured Quade would be a bad manager, but you can’t cite actual reasons for that.
I’d submit that your love of Sandberg influenced your thinking. You ended up being right that Quade would be bad, but that was a lucky call fueled by Sandberg love and not a learned assessment of Mike Quade.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
by elgato on Aug 24, 2011 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Let's go back...
I didn’t say I only wanted sandberg last year at all!! I just said I didn’t want Quade. The question was who right now should be manager next year.
I’m open to many many others…just not Quade.
quade makes my head hurt.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
And what about Quade (last year) ...
made you think this? You’re not really making a compelling argument.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Hoped
Yes, I did hope for the best. But, when Hendry and Ricketts sat down and talked with him, how did he get the job? How did Riggins?
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Two Words....Secret Handshake.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 24, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Riggins got his job ...
because the Cubs rather stupidly let Rothschild out of his contract. I know, I know — Hendry did the good guy thing. But I bet Larry’s presence on the 2011 team would have cut the bonehead decisions by a third.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
anyone else??
I get the Rothschild thing…fine. But there is no professional in all of MLB???
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
That's a good question.
It’s been suggested by some BCBers that Riggins got the job because Quade didn’t want to bring anybody in who was more experienced than Quade was.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
scary
well, isn’t that a red flag? wow, that is scary.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
It's only been suggested.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Sarcasm..........
I figured that was obvious. Sorry.
The "Duh" was obvious.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
3 things on last night...
First…Aramis Ramirez option needs to be picked up or they need to work out an extension for him. Nobody in MLB at 3B is playing better…
Secondly…I’ve seen enough of Marlon Byrd hitting in the middle of this lineup…bat him 8th or not at all…
Third…was anybody expecting Colvin to get a hit ( I know…that’s funny) and A-Ram getting thrown out at the plate WITH Tony Campana sitting on the bench? The only thing I can think of is that there must not have been anybody to take A-Ram’s place in the field in case it was tied…
Good job, Tom...now on to the manager problem.
Well..
Byrd isn’t a middle of the order hitter…but who on the cubs is! Just Ramirez. If they pinch ran Campana, they would have had no one on bench besides Hill (because of Quades dumb pinch hitting with DeWitt).
Colvin had to face a top 3 closer…ya, bad at bat, but let’s not get crazy over it.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Were you expecting Colvin to get a hit on Friday against the Cardinals?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
That was against Octavio Dotel
Kimbrel is a little tougher matchup for Colvin (or anyone).
by Jody Jody Davis on Aug 24, 2011 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Ed's so down on Colvin ...
that he wouldn’t expect Colvin to get a hit off a girls softball pitcher.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Sorry - reply fail
Although Colvin probably couldn’t hit Jennie Finch.
by Jody Jody Davis on Aug 24, 2011 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
No...
you ready to pencil him into next year’s line-up?
Good job, Tom...now on to the manager problem.
Here's how I feel about Colvin.
I’d be OK with him starting in right (or as part of a platoon) and hitting seventh next year because he’ll fill the Ryan Theriot 2007-08 role. That is, he’s not very good, but he’s good enough when he’s cheap because he can allow the Cubs to spend on other things.
In other words, we already have to spend money at first, third and in the rotation. Why add right field to the mix? The situation is worse now because of the Zambrano tirade, because the Cubs have two rotation spots to fill, not one.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Oh, and if Jackson is ready, I'd want him playing over Colvin.
I think that goes without saying, though.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Yeah...
I’m ready for Byrd to move on, too. He’s about as “un-clutch” as we have right now. Hopefully the new GM surprises us.
Good job, Tom...now on to the manager problem.
You and I have disagreed about Colvin for a while.
But I will give him more rope because I’d rather have him than pay Jacque Jones (or somebody similar) 10 times as much for two more guaranteed years. At least with Colvin, if he sucks next year, we’re not stuck with him for two more seasons.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Every game
Have Colvin play every game, against lefties and righties! I agree elgato. Why start pena yesterday against a lefty?
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
It's possible that the Cubs (rightly) ...
want Colvin to focus on hitting and not hitting while working on his first base defense. So starting Colvin at first might not be the way to go. Now, if you want to get Colvin in against lefties, there’s no reason not to sit Soriano or Byrd more often.
However, the Cubs also might be sitting Colvin against lefties in an effort to get him in a groove and build his confidence. Even if Colvin’s a straight platoon guy in 2012, he’s the part of a platoon that matters more, and they could bring back Reed to platoon with him.
I think the ire about not playing Colvin enough has been overstated around here — Quade’s been better about starting him against righties lately. I definitely want Colvin to start every game against right handers, but against lefties? Meh.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
His splits have been pretty equal though.
he hasn’t shown to be just a platoon guy. so why not play him for the very reasons you stated? he’d be a cheap option.
Yeah, that's a good question.
I think it’s more about Quade trying to have his cake and eat it too, frankly.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
They probably had their backs to the field at the time...Bobby V was commenting on it.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 24, 2011 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Well...
…they thought they would save the trip for when the bases were empty and five runs were on the board.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Is that like saving Z for game 4?
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 24, 2011 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't agree...
…with the Z thing back in 07, but at least there was some form of logic behind the decision, because you had a relief guy that was almost unhittable the entire year.
The decision to let a young pitcher go without a visit in the circumstance last night and then pay him one after the deal is done, makes no sense to me what so ever.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Colemans stuff wasnt that bad he was barely missing trying to get the guys to chase.
The chasers just didn’t chase. Did you hear Bob ask why this guy didn’t go after the last pitch that walked him.
I was there...so no... but interesting
I think Coleman got hit pretty damn hard yesterday. Byrd made a run saving catch…. I’m glad Coleman is pitching to just make sure, but he has no place in my 2012 roster
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Looked like he got hit hard and got lucky several times on tv
Coleman is not a major league pitcher, period.
"Go Cubs!"
He does for 2012 but after that no.
I also have given up on next year. I will just watch the games without any stress and wear my fan gear with pride. Its all about rebuilding.
For the record
Aramis career OPS by month APR .793, MAY .776, JUN .857, JUL .872, AUG .910, SEP .827 … heats up with the weather
Aramis Ramirez is batting .563 (27-for-48) with 5 walks, 9 runs, 3 doubles, 4 homers and 14 RBI during his current 12-game hitting streak
Marlon Byrd is 1-10 with the bases loaded this year and is hitting .200 with RISP, GET HIM OUT OF THE MIDDLE OF THE ORDER!!
"Go Cubs!"
Ding Ding
You nailed it. The cubs have 1 MIDDLE of the order hitters. They have several 6th/7th hitters (pena, soriano, soto, byrd). This is why I do not want 10 million carlos pena back.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Thing is, Pena's better than Bryan LaHair.
The Cubs don’t have anybody who could come up from the minors and be any good, and it’s looking less and less likely they’ll make a play for Fielder/Pujols. So Pena on a 2-year deal — assuming they upgrade in other areas, like the rotation — might not be terrible.
Pena’s been much worse with RISP this season than he has over the course of his career.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
No way
I fear that signing. It’s bad. Why reward a guy who is awful when you need him? As I posted earlier, I’d be surprised after being at Wrigley yesterday, that they don’t sign Fielder.
Beyond that, I’ll give pena 1yr/$6-7 mil and that’s it.
Lahair…i know al hates this idea, but get him up here now…why not Rebel Ridling. CAN THEY BE WORSE THAN .169 AVG WITH RISP? AND .143 WITH RISP W/ 2OUTS??
seriously?? can they?
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
and Pena can't even make freakin contact most of the time!!!
one of the most worthless clutch hitters around
"Go Cubs!"
at least he's willing to take a walk.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
Yes. They can.
My guess is the Cubs re-sign Pena, pick up Ramirez’s option, trade for a mid-rotation starter and spend what money is left to go all in after a top-line starter (CJ Wilson?). Not being able to pencil Zambrano into the rotation — while still having to pay his $18 million salary — will probably change the Cubs’ offseason considerably.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
What doesn't look good...
…is between Pena, Ramirez, Zabrano and Soriano, you are already at 62 mil bucks for 4 players (assuming Pena is resigned and they pick up Ramirez option).
Unless Ricketts wants a payroll north of 140 mil, good luck signing a big time FA, it just isn’t going to happen.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
It's actually more than that ...
because of the money owed Pena even if he isn’t a Cub next year. Throw in $14 million to Dempster, $8-$9 million for Garza, $6.5 million for Byrd, $7 million to Marmol, $3.1 million to Marshall and (probably) $4-$5 million to Soto …
That’s around $100 million, without figuring in Wood, Shark (whom the Cubs might want to re-sign). If both guys come back, it’s $105-$110 million on 11 players.
Now, the Cubs can fill a few roster spots with young/cheap guys. But if they spend on a John Danks mid-rotation starter, that’s another $6-$9 million. So we’re well past $110 million, and we haven’t even addressed the lineup.
There’s just no way they can sign a TOR starter and a middle-order bat unless the payroll goes WELL PAST $130 million.
This is why the Cubs’ decision to not shop guys like Byrd, Dempster and Marmol before the non-waiver deadline didn’t make any sense. That said, if the Cubs knew they had to move on from Zambrano (and still pay him) in mid-July and not mid-August … I bet the Cubs would have been more aggressive sellers.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
2 things...
Pena’s money owed is ALL on the 2011 payroll, it’s payed in December of this year.
Also, guys like Byrd can still be traded in the offseason if the new GM chooses to do so in order to free up money. The deadline was not the only option for them.
Didn't know that about Pena.
Regarding Byrd, you have a point. However, players typically bring in a better haul at the trade deadline AND the Cubs made it known that some players — Jeff Baker? — were completely off limits.
And, no, I don’t think that was a tactic to improve a bargaining position.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
That would be a pretty bad team
No more offense than this year with a couple of guys just that much older, balanced by slightly better SP.
You assume he's better
but right now we really don’t know how goos LaHair could be in the majors. Isn’t now the time you try and resolve those questions.
We’ve seen a year of Pena. He’s lousy RISP and thus is a terrible #4 hitter. He cannot hit LHP so every time he’s up in the late innings, we expect and ofetn see a loogy come in to face him with usually good results.
Is there any reason to believe he’ll get better next year. Remember that a smart team, the Rays, let him go.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
How did Castro look?
The game wasn’t on TV around here last night. How was Castro in the field? Did he look engaged or disinterested?
by CubbieFaninOhio on Aug 24, 2011 1:08 PM CDT reply actions
If he was disinterested
after being publicly embarrassed (rightfully so) on ESPN, he should deserve a demotion to Iowa. If he doesn’t take this incident as a kick in the pants, then he’ll never get it.
In my lifetime please!
Perhaps the best way to get this team turned around
Is to fine players every time they swing at the first pitch. Might help in RISP positions, which we should NOT be that bad in with so many guys hitting close to .300.
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
I didn't notice any isolated shots of Castro last night
Is anyone surprised?
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
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