Cubs' Randy Wells Shuts Down Braves In 3-2 Win
Could this Randy Wells stick around for a while, please?
Wells gave the Atlanta Braves only two hits over 6.2 innings, finally having to leave the game when Chipper Jones hit a monstrous home run almost to the center field bleachers, and the Cubs ended the Braves' six-game winning streak with a 3-2 victory.
It seems to me that Wells might not have been 100% when he came back from the injury suffered after just one start this season. He's had first-inning troubles most of the year, but on Wednesday night he was outstanding. Until Jones' home run, he had given up just a scratch infield single to Martin Prado -- and Darwin Barney came close to throwing him out -- and two walks. Also, before Jones' blast, only six balls had even been hit out of the infield. It was just the second time in Wells' career that he had allowed two hits in a start longer than six innings; the other one, coincidentally, was also against the Braves on June 2, 2009 in Atlanta. Like last night's, that outing was also ended by a solo home run -- that night by Garret Anderson -- but unlike last night, that 2009 game was blown by the bullpen.
If Wells can continue to pitch this way -- and given what he did in 2009 and the second half of 2010, I don't see any reason why he can't -- he's a significant contributor to the 2012 Cubs at a very reasonable cost. He turns 29 on Monday, so he's still (relatively) young.
This time against the Braves, the bullpen hung on, though Kerry Wood made the game close by allowing a solo home run to Alex Gonzalez that went almost as far as Jones' did. Carlos Marmol hit the first batter he faced -- how often have we seen that? -- but settled down to record his 30th save. It was reported last night that he is only the second Cubs closer -- after Lee Smith, who had four in a row from 1984-1987 -- to post consecutive 30-save seasons. That is true, but it should also be pointed out that the following Cubs closers posted multiple 30-save seasons nonconsecutively: Bruce Sutter (31 in 1977, 37 in 1979) and Randy Myers (53 in 1993, 38 in 1995; 53 is still the team record). In all, Marmol's 30-save season is the 16th in team history. He was quoted after the game:
"I have a lot of blown saves, so I feel good about (30)," he said. "Thirty is pretty good, but let's see if I can get 40."
At least Marmol acknowledges his failures with the blown saves. Randy Myers' 53-save season and Rod Beck's 51 in 1998 are the only 40+ save seasons in Cubs history. If Marmol can post 10 more saves in the 32 games remaining, that'd mean the Cubs would most likely be having a strong finish to this so far miserable season.
As far as the rest of the team's performance Wednesday night was concerned, one of the best was posted by Tony Campana, who helped manufacture the run that turned out to be the difference in the game. Campana's speed may have given Dan Uggla a bit of the jitters on a ground ball to second base; Uggla couldn't get the ball out of his glove and Campana reached on an error. He stole second base, went to third on a balk and scored on a routine ground ball to Uggla by Wells.
Campana's not an everyday player. But his speed can disrupt another team. I know others have mentioned that sort of "disruption" here before -- but I haven't seen a player as fast as Campana before, either. He can be a useful fourth or fifth outfielder. He also walked -- if he can learn better plate discipline, so much the better. The more Campana can get on base, the more valuable he is.
Alfonso Soriano hit a home run in the Cubs' only scoring inning, the second. I keep hoping that someone will claim him on waivers, too. (Yes, I know that hope is probably forlorn.) Carlos Pena, who was claimed on waivers by the Yankees on Wednesday (and who will probably be pulled back), had another bunt single. If he did this just a little more often, he might be able to tack a few more points on to that .223 BA.
Wednesday night's game was played in front of an announced crowd of 37,098; it looked like there were about 22,000 in the house. These numbers are likely to both drop after Labor Day. Some people in the crowd started the wave Wednesday evening. Here's all I have to say about that: the wave is stupid. If you start it, or participate... well, draw your own conclusions.
It's supposed to be a gorgeous afternoon on Thursday; we'll see if this draws anyone out to the ballpark on what, for many, might be their last free summer weekday. The winner of Thursday afternoon's series finale will also be the winner of the season series between the two teams. A game preview will post at 11:30 a.m. CDT.
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Pena's bunting makes me so happy.
Teams are going to do that monstrous shift on him every time, and I’m glad he’s finally starting to utilize the bunt to his advantage. It’s a huge weapon for him.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 25, 2011 7:38 AM CDT reply actions
I think is BA
would go up 30-40 points if he’d work on a little inside-out swing and start punching some singles the other way.
And so it goes.
If he can continue to bunt successfully...
… they’ll have to adjust that shift, which would mean he could get more hits through the right side.
I don’t know how many of those bunt singles he has, but I’d like to see more.
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Or at least show bunt
Anything to open up the right side of the infield.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 25, 2011 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions
I've read something on this.
That actually screws him up. Somebody (maybe it was the TIgers? I don’t quite remember) tried to adjust his swing and make him use all sides of the fields to get his BA up and he just couldn’t do it. Not too long ago he spent some time with different teams getting spring training invites and going to AAA.
The Rays get credit for “fixing” Pena and letting him hit to his natural pull side. With that, his HRs went took off. It’s just something you have to take with him—but bunting would be good to use once in awhile to keep the defense (a little more) honest.
carlos pena
Did I miss something? Is Carlos Pena so valuable we can’t trade him? It’s not like he’s going to win the batting title this year!!!
Carlos Pena has little trade value.
Sure, a team wanted him by claiming him. But the return likely wasn’t worth dealing him.
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i'd take a bag of balls at this point
Al, what’s the point? Put a couple more people in the stands?
What's the point of taking a bag of balls?
By which you mean, just dump him. Why do that?
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save some salary
and if somebody wants him, I would just let him go.
But there's not much salary to save.
The Cubs would still be on the hook for the $3-$5 million he’ll be paid after the season.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Right.
So it’s kind of pointless. Why did the Cubs waive him in the first place?
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Seems like they do that with every player, or pretty close.
That seems to be SOP for most teams, which I don’t really understand.
BTW, Al — do you think the Cubs would have been more active before July 31 if Z’s outburst had happened a month earlier?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
BTW, Al — do you think the Cubs would have been more active before July 31 if Z’s outburst had happened a month earlier?
Good question. Maybe.
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Unlikely...
Hendry’s [secret 7/22] release pretty much cemented the notion they’d do very little come the NWT deadline.
Just win the next game...!
yeah and I recall the cover comment by Hendry
“We haven’t been in any way, shape or form directed to dump money,” Hendry said. "And there’ve been years I felt the obligation was to do that. This is not that kind of year.
The Cubs’ budget for 2012 is unknown, and Hendry isn’t sure whether he will be able to re-sign Ramirez or first baseman Carlos Pena. The team that’s on the field tonight against St. Louis may be pretty similar to the one that’s here at the end of this disappointing season.
“I don’t anticipate anything significant,” he said. “That could change by (Sunday’s 3 p.m. deadline)… With two days left, dominos sometimes fall differently. We’ll be prepared to be ready if something helps us, and if not, there’s nothing else you can do about it.”
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
That was BEFORE Z's outburst.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Sorry, misfire.
Response meant for Ivy.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Why?
Because there just might be a GM out there desperate enough to give the Cubs a decent return. Possible, just not probable.
Just win the next game...!
just saw Kaplan's facebook/tweet thingy..
says the Yankees are coming up with some sliding scale of a PTBNL for how well Pena does during the playoffs…did i read that right?
Al is he really part of the future?
Al do you think he is going to be with us next year? I would take anything for him he’s a .200 hitter making 5 mil I would take more than a bag of balls ,but cmon already let’s get rid of some of this dead wood!
I am fine with him leaving.
They fact that they are so worried about him for next year is an indicator that they are not even going after Fielder or Pujols.
Or that they are planning in case they can't get either
You know, there are other teams in MLB too. Contingency planning is a good thing, it shows foresight.
Yes it does
But Cubs & forsight normally not in same sentence
by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 25, 2011 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not ready to believe that yet
Is next year year times 3? For all we know that will be the Cubs use of sabermetrics.
by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 25, 2011 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm holding out hope because there isn't much else to do
But there is at least a better reason to hope for change now that Hendry is gone
He can be resigned at the end of the year. So what does it hurt to let him play for a good team for a month.
The consensus ...
is that he’s more likely to return if he isn’t traded before the end of the season. Also, considering that the Cubs would be on the hook for $3-$5 million, there really isn’t much point in trading him unless the player return is very good.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I'm guessing the Cubs DID that.
And it didn’t go anywhere. Either that, or getting him for nothing means the Cubs have to pay the remaining dollars.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
If he doesn't return, so what?
He isn’t a scrub, but he it pretty typical of the kind of player who is available for $8M-$10M in the offseason FA market. 2011 is well past shot – save some $$$$ (how much if they let him go on the waiver claim?) and spend it on another year.
The Cubs value Pena.
If they don’t sign him, and they don’t sign Fielder or Pujols, the first base options for next year are extremely limited.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Does Marmol close his eyes before he delivers a pitch?
Seriously, sometimes he’s not even close to the zone. As a hitter, I imagine it’s pretty disrupting because you really don’t know where the pitch is going to go. All he has to do is get a little bit better control and he’ll dominate…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Tedeschi & Trucks
Nice to see the shot of Susan Tedeschi and Derek Trucks at the ballpark. I’m going to see them at the Chicago Theatre tonight:)
Very cool!
I like Derek Trucks, should be a good show!
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 25, 2011 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I first saw Derek
when he opened for Eric Johnson at the Vic. So, I guess he’s pretty comfortable in Wrigleyville. Heh.
Infuriating that people can't see Campana's value
And also that if you personally understand Campana’s value you’re belittled for being just another overly hopeful Cubs fan who thinks Campana is a future HOFer.
He’s obviously not, but what he is is a pest on base. He deserves to be up here next season as a bench guy to help us win close, late-inning games. That’s one of the steps to succeeding in baseball that the Cubs have been unable to do lately.
Every successful team has a guy like Campana and also a guy like Barney. The fans who understand the value of these two guys understand baseball. Anyone who doesn’t understand their value is an idiot.
by mike_thoms on Aug 25, 2011 8:02 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Just think if we had 2 or 3 guys with speed. In this pitcher dominated era,
speed is the great equalizer. I believe Campana forced the balk with his monkey dance while Wellsy was batting. Get a couple of guys to be that type of threat every night??? Wow, what an extra run would do night in and night out.
I think the trend will continue with pitching dominating and teams that can put speed on the field are going to be the new dynasty’s.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
Campana is a great pinch runner
This team definitely needs a guy like him in late inning situations, and as a defensive replacement for Sori.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 25, 2011 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions
For those of us that are old enough
to remember WhiteyBall, Campana brings a smile. What exciting teams those were. Can Campana become Willie Wilson?
Numbers may not lie, but they don’t tell the whole truth (and nothing but the truth), either. -- Doug Glanville
No
Willie Wilson? No way. Miguel Dilone or Ced Landrum…far more likely.
Dilone was a useful player for a couple years.
I’d take that.
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Campana has earned a back up OF role next April
The more he learns more plate discipline and keep the ball on a line he could start a couple games a week to totally disrupt a team and rattle a catcher/pitcher. He is a situational player as long as he learns his role and possibly learns to play defense more conservatively.
BTW his Iowa line was .342/.383/.442 .824-OPS 8/9 SB/SBA in 30 games 2010 in Tenn he in 131 Games he had a .319/.378/..384 .763-OPS 48/68 SB/SBA while at the MLB level he is .273/.310/.327 .638-OPS 17/18 SB/SBA
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
It's possible...
… that MLB rosters could be increased to 26 or even 27 next year as part of the labor negotiations. If so, Campana definitely has a role in the future.
However, I would appreciate you not calling certain people idiots. Thank you.
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Sorry
I was mainly referring to the talk radio people on this town, who like to rip on Cubs fans that like Barney and Campana and actually use the word idiot when referring to us for seeing value in them. The Score, I’m looking at you
Remember At the Beginning of the year.........
The hosts mocking Barney, and lifting up Gordon Beckham? Pretty funny in retrospect
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Regardless...
… I’d rather see that language not used here. Let the talk radio people do it if they want. We’ll be better than them.
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Yeah
I was going to REC your last post about the value of these bench guys, but when you said that everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot…well, I won’t REC that.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
by vonde6 on Aug 25, 2011 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'll rec you instead cuz I agree with that post too (except the "idiot" part)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 25, 2011 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
As a 24th or 25th player, that would be great
It all depends on the roster structure. Guess we shall see.
I like Campana’s speed. Speed kills…..however he (or any speed demon for that matter) must be a consistent contributor in other aspects of the game.
Just win the next game...!
Campana is decent defensively
which gives him extra value so long as Soriano is around, but his big problem is very bad plate patience. I can live with no power at all but players that have speed and no power need to patient at the plate. I don’t think he can bunt his way on every time.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 25, 2011 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Agree that Campana can be a plus if used right - even more so if he learns to take walks
The other issue with the bench has been lack of power – when Colvin starts, it’s all singles hitters.
TC got the big post-game TV interview last night after the win...
Not only does he look 12, but he sounds 12, too. I thought it would be hilarious if he had a Barry White voice to go with that tiny frame of his…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
This win had a feel good feel to it, at least for me...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
by eths on Aug 25, 2011 8:03 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Agree
We were out playing trivia and we sat down right before Campana got on and manufactured the run, and I kept grinning over how FUN it was to watch.
by Grahamnation on Aug 25, 2011 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I hope Wells pitches well the rest of the season and the new GM trades him.
Wells, like Coleman just doesn’t have the “stuff” to be a solid big league pitcher. He has to hit corners or get guys to chase bad pitches, He had one of those nights last night, But they are usually few and far between.
I would like Campana as the 25th man. He brings speed that disrupts a game.
the cubs were decent in '93, but how did Myers get so many saves?
is that just the perfect storm of winning enough games close enough?
Basically.
The 1993 Cubs were 26-25 in one-run games, so that’s part of it.
Look at the all-time single season save leaders list. All of the 50+ save seasons were registered between 1992 and 2004 — except for K-Rod’s record-breaking 62-save year in 2008. It was during that era that closers seemed to be used even more than they are now. Or maybe there were fewer blown saves. I’m not 100% sure.
But in general, the league leaders in saves have been in the mid to high 40’s since then, rather than 50+.
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Wells Stats
If the Cubs are going to improve, Randy Wells can be nothing more than a fill-in starter. He is an exact pitcher that causes a losing record:
- 5 Quality Starts in 17 starts.
- High WHIP- 1.48/inn
*6.15 ERA during the day . Overall 5.53- 4th Highest in NL / 7th MLB (60+ innings) - HAS A 9.00 ERA in the first inning! Not a great way to start a game off.
- Only pitched 7 innings 3 times out of 17.
Cubs can’t go into next year with him given a rotation spot.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Unless there's more to it than we know.
He has been pretty bad this year, but his injury might have something to do with that. As a result, I don’t think you have enough information to write him off.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
true
plus is there someone who can replace him?
by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 25, 2011 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Not Internally
I’m just saying, to compete, the cubs need a solid 5. They won’t match the brewers 1-2-3, or the Phils, so they have to have a deep solid rotation. I don’t have it handy, but the cubs 5th rotation spot win-loss record must be awful.
If the cubs want to compete they have to ditch guys who just take up space, with no upside.
Elgato-I don’t know of a lingering issue.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
I'd be happy with a solid 2 at this point
by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 25, 2011 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
subjectively and situationally Wells was not ready to return but the Cubs needed him to do so
He looks like he did in 2009 and last year at this time. Looking at the starting pitching options looks like he is in the rotation next year.
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
yes he will
That isn’t giving him props that is b/c the Cubs have NO OPTIONS.
by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 25, 2011 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
How come 29 for wells is ----- "so he's still (relatively) young"
But for Lahair, its over the hill?
Come on, TJ.
Randy Wells was an effective pitcher in 2009 and 2010. You can’t compare him with LaHair.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I am saying it does not hurt to give the guy a chance if Pena goes away for a month.
He is tearing up AAA. Is it a bad thing to see what we have?
Quade will probably just play DeWitt at 1b but still…..
It's moot.
Pena’s almost certainly going nowhere.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
They have pulled everybody back so far that have been claimed.
I guess becasue our team is so good.
I hear Soriano cleared waivers…..
Whatever is offered for Soriano
even if it’s just a box of Thin MInts, take it, and don’t look back.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 25, 2011 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions
They pulled back Wood and Johnson.
In order to get anything for Wood, the Cubs would have to get him to agree to waive his NTC, which he apparently won’t do. I feel your pain on Johnson, but I’m guessing the Cubs want to bring him back as a cheap fourth/fifth outfielder in 2012, and it’s not like the return for Reed would be that good. And now, they appear poised to pull Pena back (which kinda makes sense, given the contract and the Pujols/Fielder thing).
I share your general frustration that the Cubs have kept the nucleus together — but I’m more annoyed by the lack of moves last month involving guys like Byrd and Marmol. The waiver claim stuff that I’m aware of is pretty meaningless.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
There was NO reason not to trade Byrd...His replacement should be up now.
He has 23 more RBIs this year than I do for 5 million less….
Marmol Was The Guy
Marmol isn’t cheap. He was the guy that you could get something in return for and save 7-8 mil! I’ll be honest, it would be complete BS if the cubs traded Wood. He came here taking a huge paycut to be close to his family, and I think it would be a disgrace to trade him.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Marmol should have traded to the Rangers.
I get they were trying to sign the draft picks with hendry.
But their hands were tied when they could have been making some moves.
That is so Cubs…
There were reports of interest from Texas.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
correct. The Cubs shot them down with a quick no like everything else at the deadline, so they got Mike Adams instead from the padres.
The Cubs clearly overvalue Carlos Marmol.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Moving Baker is a "so what"
He doesn’t cost much, they won’t get much. Meh.
Marmol and/or Marshall could have gotten real value in return. Not actively marketing them was just dumb. It’s not like 2012 will amount to much either, with a rotation of Garza-Dempster-X-X-X.
I won't watch a Garza-Dempster XXX
Don’t swing that way
I don't think the Cubs should have traded Marshall AND Marmol.
Marshall is a lot cheaper than Marmol, and, I think, better.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
It's probably either/or
Unless the Yankees had offered Montero for Marmol and another team threw in a serious SP prospect for Marshall. They are both valuable, but bullpens are restocked more easily that starting lineups.
According to reports
Yankees, and Rangers both wanted Marmol and the cubs didn’t even want to listen to reports. Don’t forget mid july, Marmol wasn’t exposed.
However, I will say this:
Marmol can rebound with a major league pitching coach. Something is wrong with his release point or something. His slide isn’t as wicked as it was before. It’s floats instead of that nasty slide/drop
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
by vin23 on Aug 25, 2011 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
was it seriously reported that the Yankees wanted Marmol?
Dont they already have two stud closers? why add a third?
Probably figured they could fleece the Cubs...Soriano has been hurt and marmol is NOT a stud closer.
for all of his faults and blown saves and as bad as this team is...
he’s got 30 saves. pretty good in my book.
in my opinion, it's hard to judge any pitcher with this team...
(except Grabow)
:)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 25, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
It's pretty good.
But he’s going to be overpaid by 2013, if not 2012.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
The Yankees have an aging stud closer and a would-be closer whom the owners overpaid
They WILL need a closer in 2012.
This
Harry Pavlidis has a nice analysis over at his blog:
http://www.cubsfx.com/2011/08/converging-marmol.html
Riggins is not a good fit for this staff.
by false cognate on Aug 25, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Put Colvin at 1st
Shift Johnson to RF and bring up Brett Jackson…Sept 1st.
Just win the next game...!
Jackson is CF, Colvin in RF, LaHair at 1b, Campana in LF for the rest of the year...
At least it would be more interesting to watch.
by TJ11 on Aug 25, 2011 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pena Awful Yesterday
Yes, he is adored for his bunt single, before grounding out weakly and striking out with RISP again! Also, getting double off on a hard liner. If that was Soriano, there would be 100 posts about what a bumb he is.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
You're blaming Pena for getting doubled off?
Wow. Just wow. Not one MLB player would have made it back on that ball. It was well played defensively.
Seriously, you have some odd ideas about baseball and how it’s played.
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by Al Yellon on Aug 25, 2011 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Not his only fault
It wasn’t his only fault, but clearly he needed to get back. My bigger point was his failure once again to produce.
He gets acclaimed for his legendary bunt…but not for again leaving runners on. That is why teams lose…need to capitalize when there’s a chance. My larger pt was, a guy like Soriano would have been villified if it happened to him
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
I don't think anyone should be vilified for the double play
it was just a lucky play for the Braves. How was it Pena’s fault he didn’t produce? He was on 3rd base, and was playing even with Chipper. Great play by Chipper on a ball hit to the wrong spot for the Cubs. Nobody on the Cubs can produce right now, and we can’t even catch a break on offense.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 25, 2011 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Not that play
Once again failed at the plate with RISP.
Do you read the boards?? Soriano gets attacked for anything, while mysteriously, Pena gets congrats for a bunt single (while once again leaving RISP).
Last week was 3-4 days of ripping on Castro for playing with seeds. For some reason, cub fans like picking on nonsense, instead of real reasons the team loses.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
I agree there is more angst towards Soriano
But he’s also been here for a few years, has a few years left on this albatross of a contract, and is getting paid 3x this year what Pena is making and his numbers aren’t that different.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 25, 2011 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions
He is a big part of the problem here.
I think LaHair puts up the same numbers as Soriano next year if given the same ABs…
But...
It’s universally agreed that if cubs could drop Soriano, they would. I haven’t seen one person say they would pay him 18 mil next year if they had a choice.
I don’t believe there is any chance of that. Pena is being talked up by many here and maybe in cubs FO that he should come back on a 1 or even 2 year contract!
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
I'm in favor of bringing Pena back, and I'll tell you why.
He will be the 3rd best 1st baseman on the market after the season ends. Given the current contracts this team has, not to mention the fact that we don’t have a current 1st baseman in the organization to bring him up, I feel he is the best option. This team can’t afford to spend $25-30mil a year on ONE player, whether that be Pujols or Fielder, when we have so many other needs (starting pitching, outfield, offense). Yes, Pujols and Fielder would drastically help our offensive production, especially with Fielder being a lefty, and defensively not much would change, but I’d rather resign Pena for 2 years and be able to spend that $20 mil difference on additional players to help this team. Not to mention the fact that Fielder and Pujols are going to want lengthy contracts, and I just can’t see the team, or at least I hope the team, won’t sign anyone else for 8 year deals.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 25, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
What makes you believe for one instance that Boras isn't looking for 3-5 years for Pena?
Boras was able to make the Nationals bid completely against themselves for Werth. I believe the same could be said about the Red Sox and Crawford too. Boras manages to get long contracts for his clients. If you expect Pena back next year, it’ll be for 3+ seasons.
by ubercubsfan on Aug 25, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
He probably is.
I don’t want Pena for 3 years. I’d settle for 2 and a team option for the 3rd, but thats the best I’d do.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 25, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
I just can't see Boras...
letting Pena “settle” for a 2 year guaranteed contract to possiblty close out his career. The man is going to be 34 in May next year. Boras is looking for a 3-5 year contract most likely to have him finish up baseball.
by ubercubsfan on Aug 25, 2011 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
But what is the difference between Pena and the 4th best option
Because the gap from 2nd to 3rd is huge.
Offensively, it is.
But so is the $$$. Personally, I’d rather see the Cubs spend the money on bringing players that fit what they’re trying to do here. Hopefully the next GM will actually have a plan, and if that means stashing that money and playing some young guys and a stop gap or 2 next year, I’m ok with that. I just don’t want the Cubs to spend money because they have it.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 25, 2011 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
BTW. Berkman is 3rd best
Cubs will have the money: Pena- 10, Fuk-12, Grabow-4.8, …that’s 27 Mil, you wouldn’t trade those 3 guys for Fielder…I bet you can sign him for 20 mil 5-6 years with NYY and Boston not in the bidding?
Give him 5-6 year contract and you have a solid 1-4 (with ram staying).
I want the cubs to compete. Then in 2013, you have Z and Demp coming off the books for 34 Mil (i think)….you got guys developing, and Prince can still be here when all of this happens.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
The only way I sign Pena for 5-6 years
is if the majority of those years are options. But if we are going to sign a player for 5 or 6 years I’d rather have it be Fielder. And you maybe right about Berkman, though I think part of why he’s hitting so well is because of Pujols and Holliday being in that lineup. We do have a lot of money coming off the books after 2013 and 2014, but I would hate to see the team take on another crippling, back loaded contract that might hurt the team in 5 or 6 years.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 25, 2011 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
I think I may have just interpreted what you said wrong.
But yes, if it’s a 5 or 6 year deal, definitely Fielder. No question.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 25, 2011 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Berkman has an aversion to the Cubs and Wrigley.
And the Cubs would have to spend almost all the money that’s being freed up on Fielder. Would he want to come to a team with Randy Wells as its third starter?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Would Fielder?
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 25, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
That's what I was asking.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Would anyone? haha
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 25, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes.
His name is Carlos Pena. I’m not saying that’s a good thing.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
if they land a legitimate GM who is stamping his own
on this franchise, i could see Fielder coming, however if ricketts goes with ned colleti then i doubt fielder comes anywhere near wrigley.
I think it'll be hard for Fielder to leave Mil.
Financially, I think it’ll be really hard. They’ve got Braun on a big contract, and they’ve also got Greinke hitting FA after 2012. As much as he may want to stay in Mil, the biggest hurdle will be Boras. I really hope Friedman is hired here.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 25, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
If Sori was making $10 mill a year
I would judge him less harshly… now whether that is right or wrong could be debated.
But if you are making that kind of money and yet need to be batting 7 th and defensive replacements needs to be brought in I am going to criticize.
Where as Pena plays good 1st base. Imagine the errors the infield would have with someone else @ 1st base plus he’s signed to a short deal.
by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 25, 2011 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
For HIS bad spring that is. Wow, how bad was he in April
.159. Now that’s a bad spring. Not to beat a dead horse, but he’s also batting .134 against Lefites this year.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Getting doubled off wasn't his fault
He was playing even with Chipper, and Soto hit a rocked to the wrong place and the wrong time. Agreed, he isn’t hitting well w/risp, but if he can perfect the bunt single, it should adjust the defense’s shift and open up the right side of the infield. Not that that would help his K rate, but we might see a few more base hits.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 25, 2011 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions
rocket*
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 25, 2011 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Shift Is Dumb
In watching, that shift hasn’t got him out at all. I don’t get that. He should just bunt everytime. Brenly called it yesterday. Man on first in 7th or 8th…3b was wide open………unfortunately he made an easy out.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Agreed.
I wouldn’t mind him bunting everytime. Even if he showed bunt, he’d probably see more fastballs, and hopefully that would translate to a hight babip.
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 25, 2011 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions
"Bunt every time"?
A power hitter who walks should bunt. Right. He should do it more, yes — that might force defenses to not shift so much, which could allow him to get more hits to right field.
Every time? No. That would be ridiculous.
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Obvious not everytime
But why not keep doing it? The guy has a terrible average…you like his ONB%, so why not do it more. I like singles
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Yes, he does not do it enough.
runners in scoring position is a major problem for him like many others on this team.
This might be the worst clutch hitting team i have ever seen.
He can't bunt with a guy on 2nd or on 3rd
Because in those situations, the 3B plays much closer to the bag to prevent a steal.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 25, 2011 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions
My point was that is what what hurts him with guys in scoring position
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 25, 2011 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions
What what?
In the bunt?
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Aug 25, 2011 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Could be playing with his mind though
Do we know if he can even bunt? By that I mean can he actually put one down?
Just win the next game...!
Now, this isn't necessarily an endorsement of a specific player
but this is a shining example of how speed kills.
As far as the rest of the team’s performance Wednesday night was concerned, one of the best was posted by Tony Campana, who helped manufacture the run that turned out to be the difference in the game. Campana’s speed may have given Dan Uggla a bit of the jitters on a ground ball to second base; Uggla couldn’t get the ball out of his glove and Campana reached on an error. He stole second base, went to third on a balk and scored on a routine ground ball to Uggla by Wells.
Good job TC…
Just win the next game...!
Good call
Man, Campana scares the heck out of infields! They look so scared when he hits a grounder.
I like Quade having Castro stealing a couple too.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
I think Al could steal off of Derek Lowe
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 25, 2011 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Well Lowe was a disciple of Maddux
and I might have been able to steal off Maddux,
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 25, 2011 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Cubs RISP #'s ...Give some credit
Whoa, not everyone on the cubs is bad when it counts:
Castro- .303
Barney- .300
Ramirez-.291
But this core is awful (as mentioned yesterday)
Pena- .161 (worst in NL)
Byrd- .200 (7th worst in NL)
Soto- .213
Soriano- .233 (16th worst in NL…but still 70 pts higher than the beloved)
I think when almost the whole middle of the order is league terrible with RISP, then your team is more likely to lose.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
NOOOOO he did already and his OPS was .573!
In the lead off position his OPS is .847
The question is getting cleanup, 5th hole and 6th hole hitters who will hit with RISP!
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
And that's why Pena should go
Doesn’t matter how many errors he saves at first. It isn’t enough to offset the potential runs he continually leaves on base. Since Soriano is going nowhere, the Cubs can’t afford to have Pena in the lineup, too.
I would've guessed someone on the Cubs was at the bottom of BA with RISP.
But actually seeing it is quite discouraging.
What’s with this “beloved” comment? No one is praising Pena like you are suggesting. And your subtle praise for Sori is in the same vein. We knew when we got Pena that we were getting a terrible BA; however his OBP HR and RBI along with Gold Glove caliber defense was the saving grace of the signing. Sori, since his knee injuries really brings nothing to the table and hasn’t since ‘08. He has put together some nice offensive power numbers in the first 5 years of his outstanding contract but that is it… Homeruns… and 1 year where he threw guys out on the basepaths. Pena is a solid player and if he can add a component to his game that may open up opportunities than awesome, but I think you’re taking it a bit too personal.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
Subtle?
I just wrote the fact that out of the whole NL Soriano is 16th WORST! I don’t believe that is praise.
I think we all know what Soriano is, what I don’t appreciate is how he is always attacked. It’s not his fault he was given a ridiculous contract.
Pena is a solid playeris my exact point. So much of this board says that, but there are no numbers or eye tests that agree. He makes $10 Mil, so he’s expensive.
As noted many times, cubs need a #1 starter, a #3 starter and a #5 starter in my opinion…$10 Mil could be spent on that.
Let me say why this is important: Out of 100 AB’s with RISP, that means
Pena will get 14 less hits than rookie 2 hitter Barney……..Don’t you think that could be a factor why cubs lose? My overall belief is starting pitching…but the clutch hitting is awful
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
vin I agree with your points on starting pitching and clutch hitting.
These have been problems since 2009, becoming what seems to me to be exponentially worse each year. We really need restructuring of our starting rotation, and building it around Garza is the key. Garza is a solid #2, but a regular Cubs “ace”, Demp is a serviceable #3 and Wells is a better #5 than what we have going. So a #1 and solid #3 pitcher would be a nice offseason acquisition, but from what I’ve seen that will be tough through FA but hopefully doable through trades.
I think resolving the pitching is and needs to be issue #1 this offseason. It feels the Cubs are preparing to not get Fielder/Pujols. If we get a solid rotation, in addition to Castro maturing one year just from a development stand point bringing back ARam sprinkle in a BJax and I’m not OVERLY concerned with the lack of hitter’s 1-8 having RISP BA above .250. The NL Central is not the AL East and with solid pitching and defense the Cubs can compete. Saying this is MUCH easier than the players actually doing it, but I still believe.
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me." -Tony Oliva
Ugh.
Reading through today’s comments, I think next year’s team is going to be pretty much what this year’s team was: Mediocre enough for us to hope for a finish around .500 if everything goes well. And it won’t even have that many new faces.
The Cubs are between a rock and a hard place because of the bad contracts on the books. Spending $36 million on Soriano and Zambrano is just such a huge drag, and Z’s outburst in Atlanta makes it even worse — because now we’re probably going to have to spend most of his $18 million, get nothing for him and have to fill a rotation spot. And that’s a best-case scenario in which he’s pitching somewhere else in 2012.
The Cubs probably should bring back Aramis, and I bet they’ll bring back Pena. For all his flaws, Pena is the third best FA first baseman available this offseason. Z’s outburst means a lot of the financial freedom we needed to get Fielder/Pujols is gone, and what’s left might be best spent on the rotation. Pena does come with the plus of not needing a deal longer than 2 or 3 years.
All this means that, amazingly, the Cubs starting lineup in April could be made up of what we have now, with Brett Jackson as the only upgrade. It’s possible that Soriano will be gone, but even if he is, the Cubs will have to eat most of his contract to do it, so they won’t have much extra money to upgrade anywhere.
So, a starting lineup of Castro, Barney, Ramirez, Pena, Byrd, Colvin, Soto and Jackson might be the best thing we can hope for. Yikes.
When the season ends, the Cubs will be rid of the contracts for Kosuke, Silva and Grabow (and possibly Shark) but that’s only about $25-$30 million BEFORE figuring in raises to Marmol, Soto, Castro, etc. When it’s all said and done, the Cubs might have $15-$18 million to spend.
It’s possible that somebody like Byrd will be traded, and maybe the Cubs can deal Marmol (though they seem unwilling to do that). But I’ll say it again: Z’s outburst could be a HUGE factor in what the Cubs can or can’t do this offseason — meaning significant changes to the lineup might take another year.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
by elgato on Aug 25, 2011 10:39 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
And maybe Brett Jackson will be a shot in the arm.
But I still don’t see how that team can do better than around 81 wins.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
But I don't see how they can be made.
Unless the Cubs part ways with Ramirez — which they probably shouldn’t do — they don’t have the money to upgrade. And they don’t have a lot of places to even put people.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
If they can improve in 2012, that will be a plus. But real contention will probably take until at least 2013
And if they are spending $$$$ on FA signings, they should be looking at guys who can be part of teams in 2014 and beyond. I think Fielder meets this test; Pujols not so much.
RISP batting ave rankings in the NL with more than 70 AB's
Below I put the following list of AB’s above 70 as what would designate a regular starter, ranking numbers in parenthesis is ESPN’s by any AB
Votto: .435
Jones .397
Freese .366
Murphy .364
Berkman .356
Gonzalez .352
Holiday .352
Lucroy .344
Morse. 337
Turner .329
Miles .329
Fielder .328
Beltran .327
Pagan .324
Kemp .323
Pence .321
Philips .317
Braun .316
Bruce .314
H Ramirez .314
Hudson .312
Schmacker .311
Rollins .311
Tulowitzke .311
Bourn .311
Pujols .310
Victorino .309
Howard .307
Prado .307
Iannetta .307
McCann .304
(93) CASTRO .303
Headley .303
(97) BARNEY .300
Mayben .297
Descalo .297
Schierhotz .295
Polanco .295
Theriot .293
(108)A Ramirez .291
Montero .291
Walker .286
(120) McCutchen .285
dot dot dot
(197) Soriano .233
(231) Soto .213
(241) Byrd .200
(304) Pena .161
Best Cub has been Montenez with 13 AB’s .463
Reed Johhnson has 44 AB’s and is second with .317 (tied with B Phillips above)
Tony Campana is 3rd on the team with a .313 BA in 16 AB’s
Fukudome had 45 AB’s and .313 BA (he was out of place in the Batting order!)
Baker follows Castro and Barney with also 44 AB’s with a .295 BA
Poor Performance Line
DeWitt with his 54 AB’s has a .222 BA
Zambrano has 12 AB’s with RISP and a .167 BA (best pitcher)
Colvin has 34 AB’s and a .088 BA
K Hill has 28 AB’s and a .000 BA
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
more than that here are last year's comps
Castro has improved up from .264
while Ramirez is also up from .278 (though down from his 3 yr av 2008-2010 of .325)
and Soriano has really fallen from last year where recorded a .278 in this split and his 3 year ave was .259
Soto has really fallen; last year he recorded a .280 BA and his 3 year split was .256
Byrd last year hit .282 and his 3 year split is .288
Pena hit .239 with RISP last year and his 3 year split is .254
Only Castro (who was a rookie last year) and Ramirez have improved from last year and Ramirez had a great year in 2009 (.425) and a good year in 2008 with .301.
There really is something wrong how most of the Cubs players are approaching this…
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
Hill only has 28 ABs?
Uhm, unless I’m misreading what this is for, I think that’s wrong.
28 with RISP.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Danwood it is a split most regular players have over 70 or more (many over 100) AB's with RISP
So take Votto who has about 120 AB’s with RISP and he is hitting .435…meaning 52 AB’s he got a hit…
while Soriano (103) and Pena (93) AB’s with RISP or with Soriano 24 AB’s he got a hit but worse is Pena where he got a hit just 14 times with RISP
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
finally take Byrd, he has 100 AB's with RISP
or 20 times he got a hit…..while Barney has a similar 98 AB’s with RISP and has 29 hits…and Castro has 122 AB’s and 37 hits.
Finally let us comp R Johnson vs Byrd….RJ has 41 AB’s with RISP and 13 hits, 21 times when there were 2 outs when he got 8 hits.
What is upside down is that the top of the order hitters are also the best run producers in situational hitting.
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
That is because all the Cubs have is "top of the order" hitters and "bottom of the order" hitters
The only guy who should legitimately be hitting in the 3-6 slots is Ramirez.
by ClarkFan on Aug 25, 2011 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, that's it!
We need to bring back Montanez!
In all seriousness, what’s disturbing about this is that two Cubs who are very patient (Soto and Pena) are right in there with hackers Soriano and Byrd.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I think they are approaching RISP differently
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
With similar results.
Which is really discouraging.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Thanks Ivy
Good stats, appreciate it! I guess that is the reason many of us have a problem with Koyie Hill too.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
problem with K Hill? that is a no brainer except Cubs have a winning record with him starting
primarily because he starts with Dempster. But this is a bigger issue. Pena for all Al’s and others fright SUCKS in the role he has on this team. Sure he has 23 HR’s, but he is batting worse than Zambrano with RISP—-a friggin pitcher. Colvin, Byrd and Soriano are also position players where you expect run production
Soto is a catcher and you get what you get….
Thing is we have subtract these splits from the everyday lineup and find new people in those roles.
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
No stinkin wave at Wrigley!
I was out in the bleachers last night, sitting in left field. I haven’t sat out in the bleachers in a few years. That wave looked like it started in right field, disgusting! We don’t do the wave period! Especially at Wrigley. The Gonzalez home run was caught by a guy wearing a cub hat who needed alot of coaxing to throw it back. It looked like somebody else threw a ball back first then the guy who caught the real homer just lofts it over the basket right behind Campana who didn’t see it for awhile.

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