Chicago Cubs Minor League Wrap: August 25
by Josh Timmers on Aug 25, 2011 11:35 PM CDT
in Minor Leagues
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Iowa Cubs
The Iowa Cubs scored four runs in the top of the ninth inning to send the game to extra innings, but ended up losing to the Oklahoma City RedHawks 7-6 in ten innings.
Starter Nick Struck lasted five innings and allowed six runs on eleven hits. Struck kept the ball in play as none of the hits were home runs, he did not walk anyone and only had one strikeout of the opposing pitcher.
Blake Parker took the loss in relief. He allowed a run on two hits over 1.2 innings. He walked two and struck out one.
Second baseman DJ LeMahieu hit a solo home run as a part of that four-run ninth.It was hit third home run for the I-Cubs and fifth overall. LeMahieu was 2 for 5.
Right fielder Brad Snyder hit his 11th home run with the bases empty in the first inning. Snyder went 2 for 5.
First baseman Scott Moore was 3 for 5 and scored twice. Catcher Chris Robinson was 2 for 3 with a double and a run scored.
Tennessee Smokies
The Tennessee Smokies were blinded by the Chattanooga Lookouts, 10-4.
Larry Suarez pitched the first 2.2 innings and gave up five runs on five hits. He walked three and struck out one. One of the five runs was unearned.
Center fielder Jae-Hoon Ha homered in the first inning tonight. The bases-empty blast was his third for the Smokies and eleventh overall this year. Ha also doubled and walked in a 2 for 4 game. Ha scored twice and batted two in.
First baseman Rebel Ridling doubled twice in a 2 for 4 game. He had one RBI.
Left fielder James Adduci and shortstop Junior Lake were both 2 for 5. Adduci scored twice.
Daytona Cubs
The Daytona Cubs damned the Tampa Yankees, 3-2 in ten innings.
Dae-Eun Rhee looked good again tonight as he went six innings and allowed only one run on six hits. He walked one and struck out eight.
Frank Batista allowed and inherited runner to score to give him his seventh blown save, but he stayed in the game and got his fifth win. Batista pitched 2.2 innings and gave up three hit and no runs of his own. He did not walk or strike anyone out.
First baseman Justin Bour hit a two-run home run in the fourth inning. It was the 23rd time Bour has gone yard this year. Bour went 2 for 3 with a walk. He also stole his third base of the year.
Second baseman Logan Watkins was 2 for 5 with the go-ahead RBI single in the tenth inning.
Peoria Chiefs
The Peoria Chiefs were bushwacked by the Quad City River Bandits, 6-1.
Dallas Beeler came of the DL and threw two shutout innings to start the game. Beeler gave up one hit. He did not walk anyone and struck out two.
Brett Wallach, however, got hit hard as he gave up all six runs on seven hits in his 4.2 innings of work. Wallach walked two and struck out five.
The Chiefs only had four hits. Center fielder Taiwan Easterling was 1 for 4 with a double and a run scored.
Boise Hawks
The Boise Hawks stopped the flow of the Salem-Keizer Volcanoes, 7-4.
Starter Jose Rosario pitched six innings and got the win. He gave up four runs on eight hits. He did not walk anyone and struck out six.
Bryce Shafer got save number eleven with a scoreless ninth inning. He did not allow a hit but he did walk one. Shafer struck out one Volcano.
Center fielder Zeke DeVoss was 3 for 5. He scored twice and had two RBI. Shortstop Wes Darvill doubled twice in a 3 for 4 game. He scored twice.
AZL Cubs
Lost to the Giants, 17-15 in twelve innings.
Dan Vogelbach hit his first professional home run. He also doubled and walked in a 3 for 5 game.
Michael Jensen also made his professional debut, throwing a perfect first inning and striking out one. Tayler Scott's pro debut didn't go quite as well. He pitched 1.2 innings and allowed three runs on three hits. Scott walked one and struck out one.
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Boise is better
with DeVoss in CF.
Crazy game in AZ.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
Probably true
but DeVoss is more likely to be a productive major leaguer if he’s a second baseman.
by Josh Timmers on Aug 26, 2011 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Not to mention there's more talent blocking him in CF between Jackson and Sczcur
Pat Riley is the devil.
I don't agree
He’s more likely to be a productive CHICAGO CUB if he’s a second baseman. He already has good defense in CF, and his ability to get on base combined with the plus speed would be welcome at any non-corner position.
But if he simply can’t hack it at 2B, and Szczur/BJax/Ha/etc/ all live up to their potential, DeVoss would be nice trade bait.
I'm concerned that his arm strength will limit his defensive ability in CF
I think he could end up being a better 2B than a CF with some work.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Aug 26, 2011 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Lilly/Theriot trade return
Both Wallach and Smit have been horrible this year.
Don't forget DeWitt.
The old regime did not believe in compensation picks.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Yeah - Hendry gave up Lilly and a pretty good pick for 3 magic beans
None of which germinated. Favors to vets are all well and good, but the purpose of a trade is to improve your team.
Bye, Jim. We won’t miss your decision-making.
Sort of like the Maddux trade in 2006
Where Hendry traded a solid starting pitcher for a still-young former IF prospect whose star had pretty much gone out. I don’t know if Maddux would have netted a compensatory pick, but Izturis was the wrong type of player to be acquiring regardless.
Not quite true with Izturis
He had a 4 WAR season 2 seasons before we traded him, and the previous year was marred with injury. It was quite feasible that at the age of 26, the Cubs were acquiring him right as he was going into his prime. Turns out he blossomed at the age 24.
True to a point, IMO.
That 4 WAR season was based largely on his defense.
His batting line was .288/.330/.381/.711. Very, very solid… but it also stuck out like a huge sore thumb from his other numbers. He had one season of over .700 OPS in the minors.
I didn’t hate the trade quite as much as some… but there really wasn’t any reason to think Izturis would ever be much more than an all-glove guy.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
B-R has him at a 2.5 WAR in 2004 (Fangraphs had it a 4 WAR)
So it depends on which measure of defensive value you think is more accurate. And regardless, that 2004 was surrounded by negative (or replacement-level if you go by Fangraphs) WAR in 2002, 2003, and 2005. There wasn’t much indication that 2004 was anything other than a fluke. The bat should have been expected to remain in the ~.600-.650 OPS range (and it did), and defensive value tends to decline.
by SouthernCub on Aug 26, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
You tend to believe a 24 year old has "found it"
If he was older, than I would agree with you. And once again, 2005 was due to injury.
Judging by the rest of his career, I'd disagree
2005 was consistent with the rest of his career – not due to injury.
I don’t believe that Izturis “found it” in 2004 and subsequently lost it. I believe he never found it in the first place and 2004 was an outlier.
Hindsight is 20/20
At the time, you believe a 24 year old “found it”. He started out 2005 with a bang as well, and was selected for the AS game. I believe he was leading the league in hits at the time. But then he got elbow problems; had a couple stints on the DL; saw his stats plummet; and then ultimately had TJS. It’s entirely reasonable that the Cubs thought they were getting the 2004/pre-injury 2005 Izturis when they dealt for him. It turns out that version of Izturis was the mirage, but it was far from obvious at the time.
Why would you assume that the 2004 version was what we should expect?
This is a guy whose minor league OBP was under .650. His 2004 was inflated by a BABIP of .316 (.30-.40 points higher than he’s done in any other season) and his hot start in 2005 was a function of a ridiculous .379 BABIP.
This was the situation where a team overvalued an outlier season for a guy who was a replacement level player.
In addition to that, Izturis was relatively expensive
he made $3.2 million in 2006. So we weren’t even getting a cheap flier on a league-minimum young guy.
I get the argument you’re suggesting. I’m just saying it should have been more obvious that Izturis was a mistake. Plenty of folks (including me) were not fans of that acquisition when it happened. Saying he’s “found it” overlooks some red flags.
It’s not like folks really thought this guy was going to be some solid offensive player. The argument at the time even from supporters was “this guy is supposed to be amazing defensively – try to look past the bad bat and the fact that he just had major arm surgery.”
Oh, no doubt.
He was never pegged as an offensive star. But if you could get a .700 OPS with arguably the top SS glove in the game, you take it. Even if he cost $5 million, he’s adding a lot of surplus value.
The biggest problem was the perception that Izturis would recover completely from the TJS.
I'm not saying that's what we should expect
but what the Cubs thought that they should have expected. It’s very reasonable. Here are his BA’s in the minors:
1999 – Age 19 in High A – .308 (in the tough FSL)
2000 – Age 20 in AAA – .218 (extremely young in AAA and completely skipped a level)
2001 – Age 21 in AAA – .292 (still extremely young in AAA)
If a guy puts up a .288 BA in 2004, after what can be perceived as an adjustment period to the game (after all, he proved he could hit for a good average at a young age in AAA after an adjustment period), it isn’t difficult at all to think that he finally figured it out at the big league level. On top of it, he played gold glove defense (he literally won the gold glove as a 24 year old in 2004).
This thought process gets backed up when a healthy Izturis starts out 2005 hitting .342 in 219 ABs during the months of April and May. He still was showing the elite glove at the time as well. But he got hurt in May and we know what happened after that.
I can guarantee you right now that if we had a guy that won a gold glove at SS, put up a 4 WAR per fangraphs, and started the year as performed as well as Izturis did in 2005 pre-injury, nobody would want to trade him.
If they're thinking based on AVG, that's a problem as well
Look at the OPS in the minors – not the average. An empty average isn’t very valuable.
And again, his BABIP in early-2005 was otherworldly high (.379). There was no way he was going to maintain that. And he didn’t. He had a horrible June and then pulled a hammy in July. He came back from the hammy and had a horrible July/Aug before going back on the DL with back pain. And it was during rehab for the back that the arm problems got bad.
If you only look at the surface, he may have looked interesting. But if you look at the lack of power, the fact that his hot start in 2005 was purely BABIP-driven and came back down well prior to the DL stints, and the red flag of a guy coming back from Tommy John surgery at shortstop (never had been done before), there were a lot of red flags.
The mid-2000's Cubs were not interested in looking beyond surface stats.
We were interested things like “bubblegum card stats” (hey, Neifi Perez drove in 70+ runs in 2 straight years!)
…and “eyeball tests” (Corey Patterson can wear a uniform, can’t he! He looks like a leadoff hitter.)
…and “he made an All-Star team once” (Ben Grieve! Cesar Izturis! Matt Lawton! Scott Williamson! Tony Womack!)
…and “he played for a team that beat us in a big situation” (Come on down John Mabry and most of the less-important 2003 Marlins!)
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Just maybe he knew the sandwich pick
Would be a below slot guy because of budget constraints. Thus not as good as we all tend to assume. Just sayin.
by CA Cub Fan on Aug 26, 2011 10:31 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
We did not appear to have any draft budget constraints whatsoever.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
When the Cubs traded Lilly is what he was saying.
Not this year.
The Cubs traded Lilly at the 2010 deadline, so the compensation pick WOULD have been this year.
Just sayin.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
At the time they probably didn't know that they would break the bank like
they did. The past history has always been below average spending on drafts.
and
they knew they wouldn’t offer arbitration. Next.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
The old "we HAD to do the wrong thing, b/c we knew we were gonna screw the right thing up" argument.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Rhee
Has strung together some quality starts. Hope the reports are true and that he is getting back to pre- TJ surgery form. Would be a nice development for the system
Yep
Callis says Rhee’s stuff is close to being back to pre-TJS. FB back up to mid 90’s and the CU is looking real good.
scoutingthesally.com scouting service $17.95. Very cool service check it out.
I had hoped at the beginning of the year
that he would be back to full strength and break out this year. Looks like he’s setting himself up nicely for next year.
And that could make him a sleeper candidate
to maybe even arrive in Chicago at some point in 2012. Given the scarcity of upper-level SPs, let’s hope the improvements continue.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
This is exactly what the system needed
He stays strong the next few weeks, and he might make a serious push for the back end of my top 10.
Vogelbach
Nice game today. It would be nice to see him put up some big power numbers at the end of the year.
by cubs123 on Aug 26, 2011 12:18 AM CDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
At this stage I'm more focused
on his defense, and walk rate. I think the power is going to be there.
I doubted vogelbach just because of his athleticism, but if he can really hit like everyone says he can than we are in business.
Dunston Jr. Tweeted about vogelabach’s power and he said “oh ya”
I think dunstons tweets
are going to be interesting to follow
Vogelbach looks like a guy you want to cheer for.
A big strong power hitting guy. Built like a fire hydrant. I love this year’s draft.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Bitters last ten games he has 5 bbs and only
4 ks. That is probably the first time as a pro that has happened. Good to see!!
by CA Cub Fan on Aug 26, 2011 10:35 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Bitters= Vitters.
Stupid iPhone.
by CA Cub Fan on Aug 26, 2011 10:35 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Vogelbach
If he is able to take advantage of his home run capability and combine that with a willingness to tke a walk he should do well.
Absolutely
this system really needs patient hitters, with power.
Marilyn Monroe "yogi your a pretty cool guy"
Berra " Marilyn you ain't so hot yourself"!
Patience in this system would be nice
next year is gonna be very interesting to watch with some high profilers from this years draft coupled with a high draft pick next june. PLUS A NEW GM! its like xmas
Unless we get Colletti
which would be like Christmas, but your house burned down.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
by timh815 on Aug 26, 2011 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Agree
yeah its gonna be the most anticpiated/scary/hopeful christmas of all time
Merry Christmas, kids
We’ve sold you to the circus.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
I really don't see any way that Colletti gets the job.
He’s pretty much the opposite of everything that Ricketts said he is looking for.
Josh I think when nick struck pitches you should start like this:
Nick struck out 5
Marilyn Monroe "yogi your a pretty cool guy"
Berra " Marilyn you ain't so hot yourself"!
I did something like that once
and I probably will again. But I don’t want to do it every time.
by Josh Timmers on Aug 26, 2011 2:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorta OT
All this talk about Vogelbach made me think of the last time the Cubs had a top 1B prospect, which would of course be Hee Seop Choi. So I decided to take a peek at Choi’s numbers, and he really wasn’t as bad as I remember him being. Compare the .218/.350/.421 line he put up as a rookie to the .223/.341/.449 line that Pena’s putting up right now. They’re basically the same player.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Aug 26, 2011 2:36 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
And yet people are considering Pena as an option next year...
They have two liter bottles now? To think I spent all that time demanding a liter!
Yeah, Choi's career stat line is very comparable to Pena's 2010-2011 seasons
Choi just never showed the power Pena had in Pena’s prime.
The key to comparing is recognizing that times have changed.
Choi was an OPS+ of 100 in 2003. Pena is an OPS+ of 115 in 2011.
Offense is in a down swing, while 2003 was still within the previous upswing.
However, I always likedChoi and don’t know what happened to him. His skill set, had it matured, would have been a real antedote to our walkless wonders nowadays.
"The cheaper the hood, the gaudier the talk" - Philip Marlowe
by ForTheLoveOfBiitner on Aug 26, 2011 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
It's probably a coincidence, but he completely fell off after that concussion.
The league also definitely figured him out to some extent, but the difference between “pre-collision with Kerry Wood” Choi and “post-collision” Choi was massive.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Interesting note about our new superhero
Bryan LaHair:
Last night on local sports talk they had the ICubs Play-by-Play announcer on and he said they have been giving LaHair starts in LF to prepare him for his September call-up, which is going to happen, according to him, as Hendry told LaHair that he would be called up in September a few days after Hendry was fired.
Also discussed was that in 2009 Von Joshua worked with LaHair to adjust his swing a little bit and LaHair learned to pull the ball after spending his career driving it to the opposite field.
Maybe he figured something out and he could be out starting LF next year or Plan D in the 1bman scramble.
Bryan LaHair the starting left fielder?
Remember when the Cubs tried Micah Hoffpauir in the outfield?
You’d get the same result.
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Fonzie in right
Colvin in center.
Yay.
#seriously?
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
but Soriano might not like Quade so much then
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
Honestly, I'd love to see that.
Just for one game… so I could say “well, now I’ve seen everything.”
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
cant be worse defensively
than Fonzie – and its probably more about trying to make sure he gets playing time in Sept than anything.
Hansman..............thanks for the heads up...good stuff to hear. May explain his turnaround?
2009 Von Joshua worked with LaHair to adjust his swing a little bit
And Al, you’ve talked about being fair to players because players or families read this, and I think it’s completely unprofessional to call one player another player. I think it demeans a guy without ever even giving him a chance in the MLB. Does he swing or look like Hoff? I’m sure his minor league stats compare to many others as well.
yes yes, he played a few games 4-5 years ago, well, things change. As you know I read the 1b posts often, and you’ve never explained why you want to not even give Lahair a chance. Is it his swing? Does he not hustle?
It’s not his stats for sure.
I really want to understand how you just dismiss him several times a day.
Al- there are guys like Ryan Vogelsong who just figure something out sometime.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
First of all.
…. the number of players who “figure something out” at an advanced (for baseball) age is extremely small. For all the Vogelsongs and Ludwicks, etc. there are 100 players like them who don’t make it.
Let me also make it clear that criticizing LaHair’s baseball ability is not anywhere near the things that were said on this site about Hayden Simpson last summer, personal abuse that was extremely unacceptable.
Criticizing a player’s baseball ability is fair game. I don’t think LaHair is a major league player. Others disagree. That’s not unreasonable.
And yes, his skillset is very, very similar to Hoffpauir’s — both from reading his stat lines, AND from personally witnessing him play, which I have done. If he played every day in MLB, I believe the results would be very, very similar to Hoffpauir’s.
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2008 Hoff was solid
I wasn’t on this site last year…so I didn’t see.
For all the Vogelsongs and Ludwicks, etc. there are 100 players like them who don’t make it.
This could be said for first round draft picks too…as referenced above. Baseball is a very very tough game. I just want to give a guy a chance where there is an offensive hole. I see a guy putting up prolific numbers, and think he needs a shot. I just can’t dismiss a guy who is probably working his butt off, succeeding and not even making any money yet.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
2008 Hoff was solid
Small. Sample. Size. (73 at-bats.)
Triple-A numbers do not necessarily translate to MLB. Please educate yourself on the difference.
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No, I get it...it was just a post. Don't have to be combative.
I’m a stat guy…trust me…I think almost every post I make has stats to back up my opinion.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
You're a stat guy?
Oh, brother… I think people who are more into statistical analysis than I am would take issue with that.
Serious question: how old are you?
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Stats and My Eyes
Al- I get you go to wrigley every game, but many of us watch just as intently. I’m in my mid 30’s, does that qualify me to disagree with you on anything?? What else would like to know about me? Also, do you watch any other baseball besides the cubs? Many of us watch tons of other baseball NL and AL, not just the Cubs. While you go to every game, we can flip on any game with the baseball ticket and see winning teams.
Are you a stat guy ? You perpetuate the love for the worst hitting NL 1b in the Major leagues and want more. I didn’t say I’m “THE” stat guy, but I obviously I get how to relate stats to success. Why do you constantly challenge people resumes? You’ve never said any tangible reasons why Pena should stay, but attack anyone that disagrees.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
I watch hundreds of other baseball games besides Cubs games.
Pena isn’t the be-all, end-all answer to 1B, obviously. He does do quite a number of things well.
Bryan LaHair is a minor league lifer. In my opinion, that’s all he’ll ever be.
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Am I old enough to disagree with you? What age is good enough to have an opinion?
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
That's kind of what I was trying to say.
Thanks.
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Please review? You guys back him up with ONB and "good clubhouse guy"
Are we just talking Pena? I think I’ve clearly posted his splits. Or are you just talking his Sabermetrics #‘s…those aren’t good either. Look’em up
I’m done talking about it, but everytime I do, Al or someone takes a shot personally at me…..so I have to clear it up.
Al- How old are you?
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
I am not taking any "personal shots" at you.
In my opinion, you have not backed up your argument with anything but a note of Pena’s numbers with RISP. While those aren’t good, he has value far beyond that.
I have not, nor will I, personally attack you.
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At this point
(without a Brett Jackson type prospect at 1b in the minors) what really is the harm in bringing him up to see if he could maybe be a 5th OF/IF type – with the success he has had this year and last he at least deserves a handful of AB’s in Wrigley.
Prediction
He’s this year’s Brad Snyder.
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I think all everyone is asking is that he gets a shot
ti be this years brad Snyder
Marilyn Monroe "yogi your a pretty cool guy"
Berra " Marilyn you ain't so hot yourself"!
Or Matt Stairs
who was a guy who didn’t establish himself in the majors until he was 29.
I have no problem giving LaHair a look-see come in September. I think the fear, and probably your fear as well, is that he’ll have a good month and everyone will think he’s the answer at first base based on a small sample size. But I doubt whoever the new GM is will be that stupid.
I do think LaHair has a chance to be another Matt Stairs. Not that he’s going to be Stairs, just that he has a chance to be Stairs. I’d like to see him get some ABs to see. But even if he does well, there is no way I want the next Matt Stairs to be our first baseman next year.
by Josh Timmers on Aug 26, 2011 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
As I've said
… for every Stairs, or Ludwick, or guys like that… there are 100 just like them who don’t make it.
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Completely agree
Well. maybe not a hundred. More like 20. But I’m saying there is a chance he’s Matt Stairs.
by Josh Timmers on Aug 26, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
But for every 100 guys who don't make it,
there are a couple that do. I’m not big on LaHair but you seem to write him off just because others have failed to make it. You can’t acknowledge that some have made it and then say definitively that he won’t.
I'm in agreement with you, AL, on LaHair's chances at success.
I do think it is worth noting that of those guys who never make it compared to each one that does, some of them might indeed have become MLB-quality players given a shot. Not a large number, but it’s fair to say that quality players end up retiring from the minors each year who could have succeeded, given the chance.
"The cheaper the hood, the gaudier the talk" - Philip Marlowe
by ForTheLoveOfBiitner on Aug 26, 2011 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Even if Lahair can be a good ML hitter if he is weak defensively he shouldn't be in the Cubs future plans
They have to get better defensively, and young guys like Castro will. I haven’t watched Lahair, but the player profiles I have seen suggest he is weak in the field. I still say give him a call up this year though to show if he can hit. Maybe a team like Tampa might have interest in a cheep DH
Agree.
I have seen LaHair play first base. He’s not very good at it.
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Where can I find LaHair's recent advance stats for 1B in AAA?
I really like to check some of them out. Please, no stats from 2008 in what people will say 35 games is “Small sample size.” K, Thanks!
by ubercubsfan on Aug 26, 2011 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, everyone is shooting LaHair down saying Pena is so much superior to him defensively.
So what if Lahair isn’t this terrible defensively everyone claims and puts up almost the same offensive numbers. I’ll save that 10MM it will require him to sign for 2012 and put it to a better rotation and “suffer” with a slightly inferior 1B offence/defense. I hate it that he’s already written off just due to age and how long he was in AAA. The man seemed to always have a 10MM contract in front of him even back in Seattle.
Oh god
I wouldn’t put any weight on Triple-A defensive stats for a first baseman. I think here you’ve got to go with the scouts.
by Josh Timmers on Aug 26, 2011 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Do we really need more LaHair talk?
No, he isn’t likely to be anything at the big league level, but why the heck not give him a cup of coffee in September? So we have a better chance to win meaningless games by trotting out Pena? The only ones who care are the ones who have to watch the games (season ticket holders) and possibly Pena’s agent.
Zeke ZeVoss
Zeke gets on base over two times per game.
Second base or center field, whatever – I hope he keeps this up. I thought Brett’s walk rates were something. Zeke is unreal.
Hack Wilson IX
by KO Stradivarius on Aug 26, 2011 7:28 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Well, he's not going to keep a .490 OBP up
And he is on the older side for his league. But if he can be a .400 OBP player type player with his speed, he’ll have value.
Older?
Young for a college guy in that league. He signed as a 20 year old, I think.
by OakParkErnest on Aug 26, 2011 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions
He's 21 in low-A
Yes, he’s young for a college guy. But good college guys don’t spend much time in Boise.
He’s not old, just not at all young for his level. He’s got more experience than the typical prospect in Boise. That was my point – as he starts moving up the levels, he’ll have to face guys who have similar experience. So the ridiculous OBP will almost c
Note that I'm not criticizing DeVoss here
Just stating that some of his dominance is due to the fact that he’s ahead of the pitchers in terms of development in Boise. There’ll naturally be some dropoff as he moves up.
older?
He signed after his soph yr in college as opposed to the typical Jr sign. I’d say he’s less experienced than the typical college sign for this league.
by OakParkErnest on Aug 26, 2011 9:13 AM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
You're missing the point
He’s not old for a college signee. He’s oldish for the level (which doesn’t have a ton of college players in it).
For a prospect with 2 years of major college experience, it's on the oldish side
It’s not terribly old, but not young either. It’s not a problem. It’s just that Boise is typically where JuCo players and former high schoolers go.
Put it this way – if he’s 22 and still in Peoria at the end of next year, that’s not terribly exciting. So he’s going to need to go 2 levels next year to stay on the prospect curve. Hence, he’s on the older side for his level.
Agreed
If he doesn’t start there, I expect/hope he gets there very quickly.
In reading this again, OakPark
I think you may be getting hung up on the term “old.” I’m combining the age and experience here and being lazy with the wording when I say “oldish”. Guys with 2 years of major college experience don’t spend a lot of time in short-season ball.
My point was that the numbers he’s putting up are inflated by the fact that he’s playing against guys who don’t have as much relevant experience (typically JuCo and high schoolers with only rookie ball experience). He already has 2 years of experience against A/A- ball quality of pitching.
In terms of years of age, he’s in line with the JuCo guys (who are generally the oldest of the prospects in short-season ball. So he’s above the average prospect age at short-season ball, and way above the experience level for prospects in short-season ball.
...
Ok; that’s fair. I’m just not sure there’s anyway you can knock a younger college sign for being old in the NWL when he didn’t sign until mid July.
by OakParkErnest on Aug 26, 2011 4:00 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
I wasn't intending to knock him
I was just stating that his stats are somewhat inflated by playing against less experienced comp right now.
by SouthernCub on Aug 26, 2011 11:25 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yup...
He hopefully tears through Peoria to begin next season and then performs well in Daytona in the second half of the year to keep up with the prospect curve.
I'll be very disappointed if he doesn't get to at least A+.
I’d like to be somewhat aggressive with him, as his skills aren’t ones that require a lot of time to mature. He’s never going to hit for power, but if he can show a good eye against more talented players while still keeping the average around .280-.300 I’ll be fully on board.
All I need to do is look up his stats and see a 21.2 BB% and a 14.4 K% and I already love him. That has to be the absolute highest BB% I’ve ever seen. Fun fact, DeVoss has 39.2% as many walks as Vitters with 7.7% as many games played. At the rate he’s going, he’ll pass Vitters career walk total by the time he’s played 20% as many games.
Yeah, I'm very anxious to see what DeVoss can do in Daytona next year
I have to assume they’ll push him rather quickly, as (1) he has major college experience and (2) he has mature hitting skills. I’d be just fine with him going straight to Daytona (or very shortly after starting in Peoria) and perhaps even finishing the season in Tennessee.
If he’s in Peoria at the end of next season, that’ll be disappointing (of course I don’t expect that to happen). A 21/22 year old with two years of college experience has no business spending a full season in Peoria if he’s a prospect, in my opinion.
by SouthernCub on Aug 26, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
NWL pitching spotty,
but yeah.
Young Luis Castillo >>> Young Juan Pierre
But either would be worth a third round pick.
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
I think Castillo is a better offensive comp
in terms of OBP skills. Figgins wasn’t a big walk guy early on.
Is that a euphemism for "can't cut it at any particular position?"
Because that seems to be the concern right now – that DeVoss isn’t very good at 2B.
Offensively, I think Castillo is the right comp. Defensively, Figgins may be the right comp.
by SouthernCub on Aug 26, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Might be
Although supposedly DeVoss’s OF defense is pretty good. I’m sure the goal is for him to stick at 2B long term, but even if he could just be passable there it wouldn’t hurt to have a guy with IF/OF flexibility.
NWL Pennant Chase
Half season titles make things exciting in the minors down the stretch. The 2011 Northwest League is no exception.
Tri-City won the first half, so they are in the 4 team shootout (2 from each division).
If one of the other 3 teams wins the 2nd half, they’re in. If Tri-City winsthe 2nd half, total record is the 1st determining factor. Head-to-head is the tie-breaker, and I haven’t checked on that.
Here is how the second half sits (wins only, no rainouts yet, so everyone is level in GP).
TC*** (1st half winner) 17
Yakima ########### 15
Boise ############ 14
Spokane ########## 12
Total Wins
TC ################ 39
Spokane ########### 32
Boise ############# 31
Yakima ############ 28
8 games left for all
I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.
you made me laugh :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Aug 26, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
#9 overall pick, Javier Baez, making his professional debut today
Flies out to LF in his first AB.
The 2-5 for the AZL Cubs today is:
2. Javier Baez, SS
3. Rock Shoulders, DH
4. Dan Vogelbach, 1B
5. Gioskar Amaya, 3B
That makes me happy to see.
Yikes
Baez makes a throwing error on his first professional fielding chance. Leads to 2 runs. Yep, he’ll fit in quite nicely with this organization.
You guys are hardcore
obsessively following an complex league game over the internet.
by Josh Timmers on Aug 26, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Moreso that it is a VERY lazy day at work
I can usually check a box score every now and again, but the director is gone today, so I have some free time on my hands.
He started two double plays
so that makes up for the throwing error.
by Josh Timmers on Aug 26, 2011 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Not really
But I think we all know he’s not going to be a SS long-term.
Baez with his first hit in the 4th inning.
Legged out an infield single to SS. Stole 3B later in the inning for his first steal as well.
Dan Vogelbach draws a walk with a runner on 3B, making me like him even more.
You can follow the play-by-play if you go to milb.com
It gets updated very infrequently, though.
Thanks
I didn’t think to check there. Odd that the AZL Cubs main page doesn’t have a link to the live boxscore up there. All the other affiliates do.
The AZL Cubs
aren’t really an “affiliate.” They’re run out of the Cubs Spring training complex and they don’t have any management other than the Cubs farm system. The other teams have an interest in having a website because they’re trying to sell tickets and stir up interest. The AZL is just extended spring training except that they keep score.
You can buy a ticket and go to the games, but I don’t think the Cubs really care if you do or not. I’ve never been there, but I don’t think they even sell concessions. Mostly, it’s just a bunch of coaches and scouts sitting around watching and taking notes.
by Josh Timmers on Aug 26, 2011 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
I sort of assumed maybe they didn’t bother posting these live scores at all after I looked at the website. I was surprised they were even up at MiLB.com.
I think Al
has to put Billy Beane in the next “Who should be the Cubs GM?” poll. There’s a lot of noise coming out of the Bay Area that he’s interested.
I don’t get the Billy Beane hate around here. Well. I do get that the A’s are pretty bad this season. But we’d be hiring Billy Beane, not the Brad Pitt character in the Michael Lewis book. He did really well in Oakland before every other team started copying his stuff.
I'm only "meh" on Beane
He was gifted an extremely talented group of pitchers to work with, and that basis was how he did so well at the beginning. He’s been pretty mediocre since then. His recent trading history isn’t that great, either. I could also mention that he almost always chooses to extend the wrong guys. This last problem could probably be alleviated with the payroll of the Cubs, but it still warrants some concern.
He's had to deal with a ridiculously low payroll though
I agree that the jury is out on whether or not he’d actually be good with that payroll. He’s sort of the opposite question mark of Cashman:
Beane: how much of his struggles are due to the fact that he’s had no payroll at all to work with and constantly has to try to find market inefficiencies?
Cashman: how much of his success is due to the fact that he’s had a ridiculous payroll allowing him to make a ton of free agent mistakes and still fix it with whatever big-name guy is available that year?
Beane's other problem
is that even what little money he is given to sign players, players don’t want to sign there because the Oakland Coliseum is so awful.
by Josh Timmers on Aug 26, 2011 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Gifted
is an odd word to use since Beane was the GM when the Athletics drafted Zito and Mulder. He was Asst. GM when they drafted Hudson.
I’d say he acquired and developed an extremely talented group of pitchers.
by Josh Timmers on Aug 26, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow, you're right
I didn’t realize he has been the GM since 1998. My bad.
Maybe I'll repost the poll with new names on it in a few days.
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thats the thing that scares me:
He did really well in Oakland before every other team started copying his stuff.
He hasnt seemed to make any adjustments since his moneyball days and he was whining a few weeks before the deadline that the younger GM’s dont play ball his way when it comes to trades.
Please, dear God, PLEASE dont let Billy Beane be the next Cubs GM when it appears we can get just about any GM out there…
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