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Brett Jackson is demolishing AAA

September 1st couldn't arrive soon enough. After a dismal start with the Iowa Cubs, Brett Jackson is hitting .429/.524/1.000 (obviously a 1.524 OPS) with 6 home runs (including 2 on Sunday,) and a 7/8 BB/K ratio to bring his current slash line in AAA to .291/.392/.616 (1.008 OPS). 

 

I would say that the hand injury is considerably healed at this point, huh? I pray to God that he actually is played in September too. 

 

At this rate, he has to be the opening day CF.



This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Comments

Display:

Oh the .429/.524/1.000 line with 6 HR

is his last 10 games. My mistake.

Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson

by TheBeerBaron on Aug 7, 2011 8:19 PM CDT reply actions  

Great week, but it is, afterall, only a week

Soriano has weeks like that once or twice a season.

That said, I, too, look forward to seeing him In Chicago.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Aug 8, 2011 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I look forward to seeing him

and hope that he can live up to the expectations

"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk

by vonde6 on Aug 7, 2011 8:21 PM CDT reply actions  

I think he has

to be considered the leader to start in center next year. I don’t know when Iowa’s season ends but I hope they keep him in Iowa untill the season ends since I doubt that he would play every day at chicago since Quade can’t seem to make a consitant lineup

by nkniacc13 on Aug 7, 2011 8:22 PM CDT reply actions  

I think having another...

cheap, young, and productive position player will go a long way towards fueling an active Cubs offseason. I’m excited for Jackson to play for the Cubs.

by Kansas25 on Aug 7, 2011 8:24 PM CDT reply actions  

You want him to steal

DeWitt’s at bats?

j/k

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Aug 7, 2011 8:29 PM CDT reply actions  

That's alittle extreme, don't you think?

'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'

by Unique on Aug 8, 2011 7:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

This has been stated before...

but Colvin is only a few days/weeks younger than DeWitt and so far DeWitt has been a much more consistent MLB player. Yes, yes, but what about Colvin’s 20 HR and respectable OPS from last year? We’ve all discussed the hell out of this dilemma: is he for real or not? I’d like to see him in right field the rest of the season so we could figure it out, but I’m all for giving DeWitt some spot starts in left and at second once in awhile. This place is way too hard on him—he has come through in a big way in a couple of games.

by mic on Aug 8, 2011 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

For starters, DeWitt is NOT an outfielder

And he is a bad infielder, with a so-so bat for 2B and a terrible bat for 3B. Low OBP, very limited power. Where’s the upside story for him? Colvin has his limits, too, but he is an actual outfielder and has shown power he might be able to recover.

by ClarkFan on Aug 8, 2011 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Nothing is too extreme when it comes to Blake DeWitt.

After Hendry/Quade name someone who’s done more walk to destroy this franchise.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

I mean crap...

The guy played the OUTFIELD this year and he’s an INFIELDER. What could BE more destructive?

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

How about ...

putting a competent lefthanded relief pitcher in the starting rotation, where he is doomed to fail FIVE TIMES.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Russell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

ABD/Ortiz/Diamond.

Always a good thing to see how much Russell, formerly JUST a LOOGY, has risen in your eyes.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Russell is a very good reliever.

He is not a starting pitcher. Any manager could have/should have seen that after one start, forget about five.

I’m not having this argument with you again.

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by Al Yellon on Aug 8, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Didn't....,you start it...what?

All I’m saying is that he is and was better than your ideas to take those starts, and that it’s good to see you’re acknowledging him as something beyond JUST a LOOGY.

It doesn’t have to become an argument if you don’t want it to…I see no reason to start one since clearly you’re showing you’re willing to acknowledge that Russell is a better pitcher than you gave him credit for at any point, and those three are clearly worse than you gave them credit for.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Riddle me this:

If you acknowledge that the Cubs had few good options to start after the Cashner/Wells injuries … don’t you think our GM should have been able to find some — or had a system with somebody above AA who could have made the jump?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

In theory sure...

Applying it to the real world is different. In the case of the Cubs, this happened in week one. During that period Wellemeyer/Looper went down/retired/…Jay Jackson was hurt…so that’s already 8 SP into the preseason depth. Not many, if any teams, are going to be trotting out quality. Hell, the Yankee FO couldnt even fill out their rotation going into the season with 5 guys they truly counted on. They’re still amazed at what they’ve gotten out of Garcia/Colon.

Russell was at least number 9, and I’d rather see him take his beating than retreads like the three that were pushed. Russell was done as soon as David was ready, and he didn’t not improve while he was SP. He held his own in both LA and Boston for a while…just didn’t have the endurance and arm strength built up after a whole couple weeks into the season.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 5:10 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

He held his own?

And who is David?

'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'

by Unique on Aug 8, 2011 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Against the Red Sox and Dodgers?

For a while there, yes. Not even 5 innings worth, but he threw better and held up longer.

David is Davis spelled incorrectly.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 9:43 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Is it possible

the experience Russell had as a starter has helped him become a much better relief pitcher?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 8, 2011 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've wondered that.

I also think the lack of options is more on Hendry than Quade, considering what the other fifth starter options have done.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think that could be true about Carlos Marmol

Maybe starting gave him an opportunity to see a lot of hitters and to try and work on his pitches. Marmol was a brutal #5 starter. Except for a few weeks this year, he’s been a pretty good reliever.

It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??

by Invalid User on Aug 8, 2011 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lots of people believe a starter who comes up

in the pen learns to pitch with his fastball better. Earl Weaver was a believer in putting a starer in the pen to get him acclimated.

Tons and tons of relievers are brought up as starters too…

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 5:13 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

103 years of no World Series win?

And you think Hendry/Quade have done more? Did you know the Cubs played in the 1950’s?

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by BeerCub on Aug 8, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm beginning to think you and TJ are the same person

Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie

by BeerCub on Aug 8, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hilarious!

Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie

by BeerCub on Aug 9, 2011 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

I didn't think he'd end up being a 20 HR guy until his late 20s

but it might be a lot earlier than that. He now has 17 HR in under 100 games this year. Yes I know 7 have come in the power-oriented PCL, but it’s hard not to get excited. There should be no reason for him not to be the starting CF opening day 2012, barring a trade.

by Dcr18 on Aug 7, 2011 8:31 PM CDT reply actions  

Would be nice to have 4 home growns up the middle

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Aug 7, 2011 8:38 PM CDT reply actions  

I'd say sucks is over the top.

It’s pretty middle of the road, more interesting in the lower levels. Or maybe your being sarcastic? Tough to tell these days.

by Dcr18 on Aug 8, 2011 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

sarcasm

I agree that out farm system is very middle of the road with a lot of pieces who will be complementary guys to 3ish big time FA signings on the field and 2 big FA signings in the rotation…

by hansman1982 on Aug 8, 2011 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Brett Jackson is huge in assessing the system.

The problem the Cubs have right now is that other than Jackson, they don’t have any homegrown position players with star potential — and they’ve really only developed one who has become a star in years, if not decades.

I know Soto was ROY and an All-Star, but he certainly hasn’t maintained that level since his rookie year, but he’s been up and down since. Really, the only homegrown player currently in Chicago with star talent is Starlin Castro. Before Soto and Castro, the last star from the farm system was Mark Grace.

But if the Cubs developed stars in center and at short, if they had good/serviceable and homegrown players at second, in right and behind the plate … well, then we’re getting somewhere.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

and after this years

draft there are some interesting pieces on the corners in the minors, but as you say they are years away from a September callup…

The farm system definately entered a dark age once Hendry became GM – there were some great arms developed while he was the farm director (and maybe I wouldnt mind him going back to that role) but ideally I would like to see 2 rookies every 3 years come up and make an impact (from highly useful sub to superstar) especially if this year’s draft is anything to go off of.

by hansman1982 on Aug 8, 2011 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well the dark age came because...

of graduations and trades that fueled the ‘03-’08 years.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Only partially (at best)

There were a few draftees who became key pieces of trades for the 2003 and 2008 teams (Choi and Hill). But most of the guys we brought in were via free agency. The Cubs dark ages for position players were almost entirely due to draft failure.

Also, most good organizations can trade prospects AND develop talent. Hopefully we’re trending in that direction now (we’ll hopefully soon see).

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well it can't be ignored that...

Patterson was a key player in ’03 and ’04….obviously there was Prior and Wood….ju else….Zambrano….but yea time wore that down before it even got going and after a while it was FAs + Zambrano and Wood + the guys our propsects landed us in trades (both of which were cornerstone guys).

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

but those prospects flopped

and that happening might have caused our trades to become prohibitvely expensive to land the big name guys at the deadline…

Ideally, we would have produced 1 guy in the last 9 years that would come close to a MVP season through our minor leagues, but we havent – the closest we have come is a 13th place showing with Soto in 2008.

by hansman1982 on Aug 8, 2011 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

No one says Hendry can't develop pitchers.

This is a problem with position players.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know what you mean by 'graduations'.

But considering how the former jewels of our farm system turned out (Hill, Choi, Patterson and Pie) I’m not sure bragging about them makes a lot of sense.

You’re going to respond with something about how Choi and Hill brought Lee and Aramis, so even if Choi and Hill didn’t turn out, we should give credit to Hendry for some combo of developing talent and salesmanship — to couch the disappointing position player results.

But we’re not talking about Hendry’s ability to fleece small-market teams. We’re talking about his ability to develop position player talent. And, other than Castro and to a lesser extent Soto, Hendry has not been good in that particular area.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Also, Hendry's record in fleecing small market teams ...

mostly stems from moves made in 2003-04 (the Harden trade in 2008 is in there, to a lesser extent). Hendry hasn’t made any moves for big pieces in a LONG time, while his ability to develop position players has not truly improved.

Why is that important: Hendry seems to have lost the ability to do what he did very well and he hasn’t GAINED the ability to develop players on his own.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

It has truly improved...

Hence Castro, Soto, Jackson, Barney/DJL/Flaherty.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

It truly is showing some signs of improvement.

But, again, at the moment, the Cubs have developed two position players since Hendry became GM on July 5, 2002, who are even in the discussion as All-Stars.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

agree

the minor leaguers that we did “develop” basically flopped with the exception of Marshall, Soto, Castro from Prior’s callup until today…

some of the lack of big moves by Hendry similar to the 03-04 deals might be due to the fact that our prospects flopped elsewhere…

by hansman1982 on Aug 8, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Patterson put up something like 7.5 WAR in a 4 year span....

even with one of those years in the negatives. That’s darn close to a 2 WAR a year player for a stretch, and 2 WAR is almost universally considered solid starter.

Even Choi had his productive seasons….though not quite as good as Patterson. His ’04 with Florida was pretty solid.

Pie and Hill, but that’s probably why they got traded.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

over his best 4 years

he had an average of 1.825 WAR – take out the -1.3 WAR season and he averaged 2.9 WAR – and these were his career years…

by hansman1982 on Aug 8, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Welcome to the MLB....

where being a top prospect means very little.

To get those years from a CF is a big deal.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ratings don't mean that much, true.

Results are what count. And you still haven’t made a compelling case that Jim Hendry has any aptitude for developing star position players.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think Starlin/Soto

and the coming crop will make the argument for me.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Already well on it's way...

next up is Jackson. If he bombs there’s Szczur sometime in 2013 (I’m guessing). I don’t think he’ll bomb.

by SenorGato on Aug 9, 2011 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

You feel more confident in Szczur?

No matter what, you know that Jackson’s BB rate will be very high. Szczur has been up and down.

Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson

by TheBeerBaron on Aug 9, 2011 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, I don't think Jackson will bomb.

I wrote that a little weird.

I like Szczur a bit too, but there’s not enough info right now to really project him. I’ve always imagined him as the next LF playing a Crawford or even Brett Gardner-esque role out there.

by SenorGato on Aug 9, 2011 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

If Jackson and Szczur both mature into what we hope

Szczur would be the CFer and Jackson would be in LF.

by bdlugz on Aug 9, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Jackson will have the chance to lock up the CF job

before Szczur does. Not a huge deal maybe, but if he’s good at it…

by SenorGato on Aug 10, 2011 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

If both make it, Szczur should probably play CF

As he can cover more ground than Jackson. But we’re a few years away (if ever) from having to worry about that.

That’s not to say Jackson would make a bad CF. Just that Szczur projects to be better at it defensively.

by SouthernCub on Aug 10, 2011 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

At least 3 of those 4...and I didn't google Pie's stats...

had multiple productive MLB seasons. Then throw in the stud that is Castro and the very good ML catcher that is Soto.

Also, yes, getting value for prospects via trade is a commendable thing, even if it was the Tyrant Jim Hendry that did it. Now you’ll talk about how that was 8 years ago and therefore doesn’t count or something.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, I'd like to know when I came close to calling Hendry a 'tyrant.'

If anything, I think he is too accommodating to his employees.

But beyond that, this is a perfect example of SenorGato’s Patented Moving Goalposts. Hendry has developed some position players who were useful parts. The point I’m making is that he’s only developed two position players who could be considered All-Stars in nearly a decade as GM.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Tyrant Hendry is just a joke I like to make.

I didn’t accuse of it, I just like doing it because it fits a board theme.

Those two players have both come in the last 4 years.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

So what if they've come in the last 4 years?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's kind of a big deal...

Seeing as the team is looking to move forward. The older of the two up the middle, starter talents from within our farm system is 28. Somewhat significant when you want to move on….

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

It was also a non sequitir.

When we’re talking about Hendry’s body of work as GM — which goes back nearly a decade — giving him attaboys for success starting in year six is equivalent to patting a kid for getting straight As on his third try at the fourth grade.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

by now

Hendry should have a roster with 1 or 2 homegrown 7-8 WAR guys…we are nowhere near that…

by hansman1982 on Aug 8, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is especially true ...

if you consider what Hendry did before he was the GM. He ran the farm system!

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

and the farm system

produced 3 really good pitchers from when he was Farm Director…

by hansman1982 on Aug 8, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right.

But, again, Hendry can develop pitching. That’s not really his problem.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

imagine if Prior and Wood

remained healthy for their entire careers…wooooo weeee

by hansman1982 on Aug 8, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Would have been happy with one of them.

At least Kerry has been a pretty good pitcher for more than a decade. Prior’s situation is just so weird.

I bet his arm never healed after the Brad Hawpe liner.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't even think it healed properly after the...

Giles collision.

Prior coulda/woulda/shoulda been a baseball god by now. The guy was huge even here in NJ…I blame the SI covers.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Prior pitched best in 2003 after the Giles collision.

He was also very good in late 2004 and early 2005 before the line drive.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have always thought..

… that when Prior came back in 2005 after only four weeks, he may have subtly altered his motion, thus resulting in the shoulder troubles.

When the line drive hit his elbow, my first thought was “He’s out for the season.” He probably should have been. That might have saved his career.

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by Al Yellon on Aug 8, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

You could be right.

I’ve never understood why he was so bad in 2006.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Go figure

A giant steroid collision of Prior and Giles.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Aug 8, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

If the broken arm/line drive hadn't happened when it did ...

I might agree with you. But Prior was really good in early 2005. He started struggling AFTER the broken arm, not after testing started (in 2004).

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I see it your way

My point is that I always tabbed Prior as a steroid guy. Nothing would change my mind.

I loved watching him dominate just as I did Sosa. Who the hell else who hit the ball a few houses down Kenmore?? That never happens anymore.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Aug 8, 2011 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

It wasn't steroids. It was that deer antler spray.

You know, the same stuff Pujols has been using to beat the system!

by ubercubsfan on Aug 8, 2011 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

My bad you're right

I heard Prior was a hunter

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Aug 8, 2011 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not a position player, though.

Hendry can develop pitching — star pitching sometimes. But he has a poor track record with developing star position players.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Prior was always my favorite growing up

Hence the picture. That was when I was 10 and I didn’t know details about baseball, just basics. I just loved watching him.

by Ryno G on Aug 8, 2011 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

agree

I watched him in his AAA debut and it was a thing of beauty…

by hansman1982 on Aug 9, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

The whole 2003 was too....

Not to mention the hype that culminated in his debut in 2002. The guy was just a ridiculous talent…Absolutely sucks very little came of it.

by SenorGato on Aug 9, 2011 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

here are career WAR of those 4

Choi: 2.9 over 4 seasons
Hill: 2.3 over 7 seasons (with 3.2 of that coming when he was here)
Patterson: 6.6 over 12 seasons (with all of that coming in 2004 and 2006)
Pie: 1.1 over 5 seasons

So basically 2 decent years out of a combined 28 seasons and 12.9 WAR over those 28 seasons or 2.1 WAR per season…all of this from 4 of the top prospects in the system at the time…that is the very definition of mediocre results – Dark Ages – whatever you want to call it

by hansman1982 on Aug 8, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

Now, SG’s going to chime in about how two of those guys brought Aramis and Lee. That, again, shows Hendry can fleece small market teams sometimes — not that he can develop star position players.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah no.

Though those are valid.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

You know what else they can be used for?

Acquiring Juan Pierre. That was an awesome trade.

Prospects can be used to acquire other players. But those prospects’ disappointing careers can’t be glossed over when assessing Jim Hendry’s ability to develop position player talent just because they landed us a good haul in exchange.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's quite a move of the goal posts.

Yes, sometimes a bad trade is made. Juan Pierre doesn’t outweigh landing two cornerstone players for the system’s top prospects….especially considering that Ramirez was 23 and Lee was what…25? when the Cubs landed them…that’s huge for a farm system to pull that off.

Also, those prospects offered value either to the Cubs or their new teams in what way they could. They didn’t become stars….that’s why they didn’t remain Cubs.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wait. Wait. Wait.

So, they didn’t become stars because they didn’t remain Cubs?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think he is saying

that Hendry knew they wouldnt become stars so unloaded them…

by hansman1982 on Aug 8, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just like he knew that about Ricky Nolasco.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nolasco's been chasing '08 for

almost 3 full seasons now. Like those guys, he was a good prospect who’s put together some productive seasons and in the grand scheme of things isn’t great. Not such a big deal….

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's not exactly "no big deal"

Nolasco was a 4.3 WAR pitcher in 2009 – better than any Cubs starters that year (and better than his 2008, BTW).

Nolasco is a 2.9 WAR pitcher so far this year – among Cubs starters, only Garza (3.2) has been better.

And of course, had we not traded him for Pierre, there also would have been the option of trading him for something more valuable.

by Jody Jody Davis on Aug 9, 2011 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Exactly.

Well said.

'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'

by Unique on Aug 9, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nolasco is a glorified Randy Wells.

Except he’s not actually glorified…He’s a 4-5 starter who’s had a couple of nice years…though I’ll admit I was wrong about him chasing ‘08 for 3 years…Then again, I’m sure in a way he’d love to throw 200+ innings with an ERA at 3.52 again.

by SenorGato on Aug 9, 2011 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's averaged over 3.5 WAR the past few seasons

And is on pace for a 4.0 WAR or so season this year. He’s a solid #3 on most teams during that stretch. His FIP has been ridiculously far below his ERA for most of his career too, making him either one of the unluckiest pitchers around, or a notable exception to an otherwise very good stat.

by madcow256 on Aug 11, 2011 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wanted you to have that weak point.

I just think the Cubs used them like big clubs can use prospects and young players…as a way to help feed the ML team whether by promotion or trade…and trade is a very valid way to use a prospect.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

That is not the ONLY way big clubs use prospects.

And the Cubs haven’t developed enough position players with star talent.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yet in recent years they've devleoped two....

and it appears a 5 tool CF is on the way up. So things seem to be headed in the right direction, no?

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also I listed two ways...

which is an acknowledgement that there’s more than one way.

What of the fact that other franchises liked our prospects enough to give up a Lee, Ramirez, even a Pierre (I agree he sucked then and now, but he did have a standing when the trade was made), Lofton, Grudz, and even a Garza (who’s trade was headlined by a Low A SS and a High A/A pitcher).

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Grudzielanek was not acquired for prospects.

And the only trade that you mentioned that happened since 2004 was Garza.

Big market teams — ones with sustained periods of success — win because they can spend on the Mark Texeira or Cliff Lee to compliment the stars they’ve developed from within. It’s why those teams seemingly compete every year (with the occasional off season) while the Cubs have a couple junk-food-high years and then fall into a 2009-11 funk.

Hendry has developed some pitching. The team has been willing to spend. But the lack of strong position-player talent from within means the Cubs are older, more expensive and their success is shorter-lived.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

My bad on Grudz...

Pierre happened in ’06.

The Cubs are heading in the direction of those big market clubs you’re talking about. It’s not like it was always smooth sailing for those clubs…the Yankees had to wait for the Giambi albatross to come off (along with other salaries that combined to shave a huge amount of payroll off in ‘08-’09)….the Phillies tried and failed with Glanville/Abreu/Wolf/Rollins in the late 90’s/early 2000’s….the Red Sox had the whole curse storyline….

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Aramis Ramirez was 25, and Derrek Lee was 28.

'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'

by Unique on Aug 8, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

English?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

You can do this with any system....

Not only were 3 of those guys guys able to deliver productive (even very productive) individual seasons (‘07 for Hill, ’04 for Choi, ’03-’06 for Patterson minus ‘05), but IIRC three of them are still the big leagues…Or it might be two…Hill’s in the minors I think.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

from Prior to Soto

these were the main guys in the system, and all of them have failed to become anything more than roster filler.

by hansman1982 on Aug 8, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

And again....

That’s something that can pointed out with many/any systems. That’s the nature of the prospect game….very few guys who PROJECTED to be stars in the minors actually become stars…otherwise the big league standard for star would be pretty low.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

prospects are a crap shoot, that is why you draft 50+ of them a year…but to have no even above-average players come up and stick from 2003-2007 is not good at all

For the record, I am basically middle of the road when it comes to Hendry…I dont think he stinks nor do I think he is good but I do think it is time for new blood to come in.

by hansman1982 on Aug 8, 2011 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

The thing is from '03-07 they did have a couple...

Patterson was a well above average CF from ‘03-’06 minus his ’05….Choi was a pretty good bench bat for the Dodgers, who gave up their starting C/fan favorite to get him (amongst others), and he had a very strong slash line when given starter ABs for the Marlins…hell, Choi was playing pretty well for the Cubs in ’03 until he and Wood collided. Pie, for all his failures, is still in the majors for some reason and even might have a positive career value.

We have the same view on Hendry.

I suggest checking out the Dodgers farm system of the 2000’s….loaded….loaded with busts (Greg Miller, Chuck Tiffany, Xavier Paul, so many)…they eventually got one super stud (Kershaw)….Kemp looks like he’s coming into his own finally….Loney is down the drain…DeWitt is now hoping to end up a utility player (he should pull it off)…Billingsley isn’t the ace or even #2 starter he was projected to be, but he’s a very good MLB pitcher…this is the nature of playing the prospect game.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

and check out the

Phillies, Giants, Yankees, Red Sox, etc… teams that have multiple MVP caliber future HOF guys that came up through their farm system…

Sure you can look though baseball and find thousands of busts – but how many 10 year GMs can you say this about:

Is the deterioration of the Cubs’ farm system another knock against Jim Hendry? During his tenure, the Cubs’ organizational ranking from Baseball America has looked like this: 2002: #1, 2003: #3, 2004: #7, 2005: #10, 2006: #15, 2007: #18, 2008: #20, 2009: #27, 2010: #15, 2011: #16. This year’s system has suffered through ineffectiveness and injury, so, even with the anticipated additions from the draft, it’s not inconceivable that the Cubs will be middle of the pack again next year.

Courtesy of Brett (Ace Cubbie here) over at bleachernation.com

by hansman1982 on Aug 8, 2011 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Not many GMs get 10 years...

to do what Hendry’s done to this franchise with so few results.

--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Aug 8, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

...or some more excuses...

and $30m more you can flush down the drain while you gut the farm system and do little to replace it.

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Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Aug 8, 2011 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Phillies ...

have Rollins, Utley and Howard. The Yankees have Jeter, Posada (who is losing it, but who was quite good and Cano. The Red Sox have Ellsbury, Pedroia and Youklis. These are major market teams.

You’re right that the Cubs in 2003-04 trade prospects to get two guys who would be core players for years. What you’re wrong about is that those trades — combined with getting Soto and Castro on the field at the same time in 2010 — is enough to let the Cubs off the hook for not developing position player talent for several years.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Cubs have...

Soto/Castro with more down the road. Sure, they’re late to the party but IMO better late than never…and a stud SS and C is a hell of a way to come back into the game.

If other teams were pumping out position players left and right…stud position players…I’d agree with you….but Cano came almost a decade after Jeter/Posada…Utley and Howard came a while after Rollins, and both were late risers (made it to the show at 24/25)….The Red Sox are pretty good at it though, and that’s probably why they serve as such a big influence on what Ricketts wants to do here.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's the "late to the party" part that we agree on.

We disagree that the guys who have not done anything in the majors should be shown as evidence of Hendry’s ability to develop star position players.

I think we can leave it at that.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Before Cano was Soriano...

It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??

by Invalid User on Aug 8, 2011 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

They also produced...

2-time All-Star Cristian Guzman, who they traded for Chuck Knoblauch (part of 4-straight WS teams, including 3 winners).

Bernie Williams was around for much of the Jeter/Posada glory years, and is a fringe Hall-of-Fame candidate.

Not only did they have Soriano, but they turned him into Alex Rodriguez.

You can’t give the Cubs any credit for guys like Hill, Choi, Patterson and Pie without crediting the Yankees with guys like Dioner Navarro, Melky Cabrera, Juan Rivera, Marcus Thames and Nick Johnson. They’ve had plenty of the fringe guys that had one or two good seasons too, and they consistently got good value when they traded them.

We also can’t credit the Cubs with Brett Jackson and Szczur without noting that the Yankees just traded Austin Jackson for Brett Jackson’s upside and have Jesus Montero waiting and ready in AAA. Jose Tabata was also producing for the Pirates before his injury this season.

There’s no success found in comparing the Yankees with the Cubs.

--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Aug 8, 2011 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bernie's a fringe HOFer?

Really? Not arguing — I just thought he was a notch or two below that.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

I said fringe HOF candidate.

I don’t think he’ll make it… but I think he’ll get a lot of votes. That would account for your notch or two below that.

He was a huge part of a very successful run for the most famous franchise. Consistently above average offensive numbers and defensive reputation (deserved or not) at a key position… he would have been helped had he not tried to extend his career the last two or three years, because he’s not getting in based on counting stats anyway.

Bill James has him as a “virtual cinch” to make it, while other metrics don’t like him so much.

--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Aug 8, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Williams has the argument...

Favorite player growing up by a great amount….that’s the argument.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yanks have

the greatest reliever on this earth, Rivera.

by Grockcubs on Aug 8, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not sure what you're trying to say ...

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oops

thought it was about all positions.

by Grockcubs on Aug 8, 2011 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Correct.

Hendry has proved more proficient at cultivating pitching.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

But the Cashman's done pretty well there too...

…both in the guys he’s using and the guys he’s been able to trade for really good value. Nova, Rivera, Robertson, Chamberlain (before he got hurt) have all played key roles on this year’s team… and if you look, you’ll find former Yankee prospects littered among major league pitching staffs.

--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Aug 8, 2011 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

I totally agree.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Few things with the Yankees...

- Theyve got guys in their FO who have been there for 30+ years.

- They develop relievers well enough.

- they suck at developing starting pitching. After Pettite, who debuted 16 years ago or so, what SP of significance came out of there?

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 9:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Off the top of my head...

Ian Kennedy probably should have been an All-Star this year. The Yankees don’t care because they traded him for an MVP candidate, but he’s looked good both years in Arizona.

Ivan Nova has already given them 18 starts this season, a 10-4 record and is only 24.

Phil Hughes already has one All-Star season, and it’s pretty early to write him off after only one bad year.

Chien-Ming Wang, besides the good name, was really good for them until an unfortunate injury going into some of his prime years. It’s not like he’s done, though it’s not looking good.

Jeff Karstens looks really good for the Pirates right now. They also got Ross Ohlendorf in that trade, and he’s given them two solid years before getting injured this year.

When you hit as big as Andy Pettite and supplement your system with international signings like Contreras, Orlando Hernandez and Hideki Irabu, and can afford every $20m pitcher that comes on the market, you don’t really have to do more than that.

You really should just stop grasping at straws to compare the Yankees and the Cubs or use them to fuel your delusions that the Cubs are on their level in any way, shape or form.

--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Aug 9, 2011 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

and your paragraphs

define why I want Cashman for Cubs GM

by hansman1982 on Aug 9, 2011 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wang was like Patterson, a flash in the pan. Yes, he was worth more WAR, but overall neither lasted long as very good players. Good game for him tonight though. He’ll stick around for a while as a backend guy.

Karstens is a bad team’s 4th or 5th starter. His FIP and xFIP are both almost a full run higher than ERA, and if there was a definition for mediocre stuff it’d be this guy. Good for him this year. It’s like there’s a difference between the AL East and NL Central. He might kick around a while, but probably not.

Kennedy’s pretty good, but he’s another guy who got the AL East to NL boost. He threw like crap with the Yankees.

Nova’s going to be good though. Reminds me of a young Freddy Garcia.

by SenorGato on Aug 10, 2011 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Come on, man...

Why do you think it would be fruitful to judge any of their performance based on such a small number of games no matter what division they play in?

Karstens and Kennedy played in very few games in the AL East, so it doesn’t mean anything to bring that up.

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Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Aug 10, 2011 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's not like that that's all I weigh for them.

Karstens is legitimately unimpressive.

Kennedy looks better than he did in NY, and will probably have a nice but unspectacular career.

by SenorGato on Aug 10, 2011 1:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

By the end of this year....

The Cubs legitimately might have developed:

- A franchise C. Soto is catching alot of crap for this year, sure. He’s still a C with an .813 career OPS. The 2011 average line from an MLB catcher: .244/.315/.382. That’s roughly a .700 OPS. He’s OPS’ing around 5% more than the average C (.740), and he’s having a solid regular 2 WAR season right now.

- A even more franchise SS.

- A franchise CF.

- Barney and friends (hopefully LeMahieu) at 2B.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's ... kinda what I said.

If Jackson is the real deal, then the farm system looks pretty good. If it doesn’t, we have Castro (who’s the real deal), Soto (who’s good but not great) and a lot of useful parts without stars in the farm system.

Let’s not quibble over Soto’s worth.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah but you said it like it was a bad thing.

Most teams would kill to produce up the middle pieces like that.

Also, Soto’s value is totally worth quibbling over because he’s being consistently underrated lately. Even in a bad year he’s above average at C and solidly producing at a starting level.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's a bad thing because so much is resting on the shoulders of Brett Jackson.

If he flames out, then you have Castro (who is the real deal) and Soto (who is a good but not great player). And what other position players developed in the Hendry years have even been All-Stars?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

You say that.....

Really Brett Jackson just has to continue to be Brett Jackson and let his game work for him. He doesn’t have to save the franchise, validate the farm system, or anything but play baseball well. All the rest will follow….

It’s already been acknowledged how many became All Stars. Good thing both of those All Stars are all recent and still under the team’s control for the time being. Them being under team control helps keep their price down which helps the Cubs do what a big market team can do…go out and spend on some talent to supplement.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Your last sentence is accurate.

However, if Brett Jackson does not pan out, then the Cubs will have to overspend on another CF.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

there are a lot of CF'ers

in the system and someone like Scuzur could become better than Jackson…CF is not a position I am too worried about (with a competent GM) for the next 5-6 years

by hansman1982 on Aug 8, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Except that we might have to sign a Jacque Jones type ...

to keep the position warm until Sczur is ready if Jackson doesn’t pan out.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, I caught that, hans.

I didn’t mean a JJ type in terms of someone who’s bad. I meant in terms of a mid-range FA who fills a spot. If Jackson doesn’t pan out, the Cubs will have shop around for a CF for at least a couple years.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

That would suck, but part of the game....

Jackson’s skillset, tools, and athleticism all point to a guy who can be a pretty good player. I’ll remain optimistic.

They could always make a trade too…Maybe it even involves Jackson.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm optimistic about Jackson, too.

But until he consistently delivers at the MLB level, he’s nothing you can use to buoy Hendry’s credentials when it comes to developing position player talent. It’s like saying, in 2006, that Hendry has done a good job because of Felix Pie.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

See the thing is...

you barely want to acknowledge the improvements and accomplishments of Castro and Soto, both fairly recently out of this non-position player producing farm system of Hendry’s. So really, it just seems like there’s not much to be said because you’re already set on this “Hendry doesn’t produce position players” thing. The farm system’s big strength is hitters right now, and they’ve even delivered a couple with Jackson/DJL/Flaherty providing another possible wave.

Also, Jackson is a much more skilled prospect than Pie ever was. Pie was always a raw guy who might put it together and be a stah. Jackson is in the same boat, except he’s boasting baseball skills like OBP, BBs, and power in his minor league numbers. Pie was throwing up K:BBs like 126/46 in the minors and 116/39…not appealing stuff even with raves about tools and upside.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you'd be willing to say ...

that Hendry doesn’t have a proven track record developing position players who go on to be stars in the majors, then we’re in agreement.

But you keep trying to combine what might happen with what has happened.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd say that if I wasn't watching...

two young guys who’ve become ASs in recent years under Hendry’s watch. I’d say that if Barney didn’t outplay my expectations for him this year. I’d say that if Flaherty/Jackson/LeMahieu/Szczur/Castillo didn’t all breakout in one way or another this year…I’d say that if most of our prospects came with the “well he’s extremely raw, he K’s alot, doesn’t BB walk, but man that upside is high” tag that guys like Harvey, Pie, Patterson, and even Choi (who walked) got….

I like this crop of position prospects than the no walk/high K combo players of the last decade that filled up the farm system. I think they’ve already produced better, more sustainable talent, and I think there’s more on the way.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm tired of this.

Bye.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Respeck.

You’re not going to get me to say what you want me to say if I don’t agree with it.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or you me.

So, I’m gonna walk away.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

here's the problem

you are trying to compare a bunch of guys who are at BEST league average against the Utley’s, Howards, Cano’s, Jeter’s of the world…does it look better-ish now, ya but see the org rankings for the entire time Jimbo was GM above to see why he shouldnt be trusted going forward…hell Castro could still bomb out

by hansman1982 on Aug 8, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I completely agree

that Soto and Castro are above-average but when you look at the other players SG brought into the debate

4 above-average (including Z and Marmol) players out of the last 8 years isnt anything to write home to Shoemile’s Mom about…

by hansman1982 on Aug 8, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Especially when judging position player development.

Then you can’t throw Z or Marmol into the equation. And Hendry’s record on developing pitching really isn’t bad.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

False.

Jackson deserves to be given the starting job for at least half a season, by which Szczur should be about ready. Not to mention Byrd is still on the team.

by Ryno G on Aug 8, 2011 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why does Jackson deserve to be given a starting job for half a season?

And how do you know Szczur will be ready after that?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jackson

should be the Opening Day CF next year barring a complete meltdown in ST.

Beyond that I think they should just let it ride on him being starting CF throughout the entirety of 2012 – tell him to relax, the gig is his just do what he has always done beyond that it is entirely possible (although not probable) that Szczur would be ready for a similar showing in 2013

by hansman1982 on Aug 9, 2011 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here's my issue with this thinking, hans.

People were saying the same thing about Felix Pie. This isn’t a matter of “deserves” — it’s a matter of performance. What if BJax sucks for the rest of 2011? What if he’s terrible in ST?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 9, 2011 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Obviously if he

completely tanks the rest of the year then you go for a 1-year deal on a Edmonds type that you wont mind trading for peanuts or having him ride the bench in the event Jackson figures it out in ST or April/May 2012.

Otherwise if he does well the rest of the month and doesnt look completely lost at the plate in his Sept callup (he NEEDS to play everyday – possibly even more than Colvin) I would ride on him being the Opening Day CF – at this point (and maybe I am missing something as I dont follow MiLB and the callup process too closely) is there anything else he needs to prove in the minor leagues?

by hansman1982 on Aug 9, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

People said the same thing when Felix Pie was coming through the system.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 10, 2011 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dude Felix Pie was like 6 years ago.

He has nothing to do with anything anymore.

People said the same thing when Felix Pie was in the system. They said it with Doug Glanville before that too. None of that means anything.

by SenorGato on Aug 10, 2011 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree he is being underrated this year

It is mostly because he was so overrated last year. Preseason everyone was saying Soto would be our best hitter and should be batting 3rd,4th, or 5th and he when he got the chance to bat in the middle he flopped.

He is good catcher just not the type of player to rely on for a big hit in the clutch.

by Mitchener on Aug 8, 2011 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Awesome.

I love that this dude can take a walk, too.

FIRE JIM HENDRY. Injuries aren't the problem.

by shoemile on Aug 7, 2011 8:38 PM CDT reply actions  

then we have to get rid of him

cannot have a youngster showing up the veterans by taking walks and being a sound batter.

I'm going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp!!! Who's with me?

by VegasCubFan on Aug 7, 2011 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

That would be unfortunate.

FIRE JIM HENDRY. Injuries aren't the problem.

by shoemile on Aug 8, 2011 12:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep.

I’m not sure we’ll ever get Castro or Barney back after…after…after The Incident.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 1:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Castro seems to be doing alright.

Barney…It’s gonna be tough road, SG. Let’s hope he gets through it.

FIRE JIM HENDRY. Injuries aren't the problem.

by shoemile on Aug 8, 2011 1:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not sure he will.

Barney comes off as a sensitive soul who took that beating straight to heart. He knows what evil was intended by it, and I don’t think he has the same kind of strength Castro has to fight/overcome it. He’s delicate, like a flower of some kind.

Poor Barney…He’ll never be the star hitter his minor league numbers indicate he’d be under a careful, nurturing, intelligent manager.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 1:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good lord.

Was this level of sarcasm really necessary?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

You might have missed it...

but that whole exchange was tongue in cheek. I just capped it off really well.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

OK. Fair enough.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm 99% certain...

… we will see him in September. And, hopefully, starting.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Aug 7, 2011 8:43 PM CDT reply actions  

I can't really see him getting more than a couple starts a week.

I’d love to be wrong though.

FIRE JIM HENDRY. Injuries aren't the problem.

by shoemile on Aug 7, 2011 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sadly I think your right.

Colvin needs everyday playing time, and I doubt Soriano and Byrd spend much time on the bench. They also seem to be trying to fit Reed and Campana into the lineup, so the OF is gonna be crowded.

by Dcr18 on Aug 7, 2011 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

"trying to fit Reed and Campana into the lineup"

Good grief why?

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Aug 8, 2011 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

the cubs will get bobby scales back from japan and play him in CF

I personally believe that damaged ligaments and tendons (among other abrasions) aren't the reason for the team playing so poorly relative the rest of Major League Baseball, so accordingly, James Hendry should be relieved of his highly important duties as General Manager of the Chicago Cubs franchise.

by jesus christos on Aug 7, 2011 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

SHHHH!

Don’t give them any ideas.

Although, if they did this, it would be fun to watch Jessica’s head explode.

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by Al Yellon on Aug 7, 2011 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

or trade for Fukudome

I'm a Cubs fan. The Jaded Bitterness comes as a Standard Feature.

by timh815 on Aug 7, 2011 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm guessing that

DJ, LaHair, Carpenter, Coleman, Castillo, Montanez, Snyder, Berg, Gaub, Maine, and Jackson might be up from Iowa. Struck would be an interesting one, as would Clevenger. There could be others from the Smokies as well. It will be fun to see.

by jpeters407 on Aug 7, 2011 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol...it never ends, does it?

Fire Jim Hendry. Injuries aren't the problem.

by Easy Ed on Aug 7, 2011 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep,

over all of those guys.

by SenorGato on Aug 7, 2011 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

He does not watch the Cubs on TV

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Aug 8, 2011 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pretty sure a total of...

0 of those guys are currently on the MLB roster. The ones who wouldn’t play over DeWitt/Soriano…like the BCB legend Lou Montanez….wouldn’t play over them because they suck more.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 1:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Is Berg really still on the 40-man

jeez, what a waste. Wouldn’t mind seeing Dolis up in September as well.

by Dcr18 on Aug 7, 2011 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes he is,

he has pitched ok in Iowa.

by jpeters407 on Aug 7, 2011 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just checked out his stats

solid ERA, but then I saw the 4.6 BB/9 and 4.6 K/9 and remembered why he was so awful. No Ks and high BBs does not inspire much confidence, he can’t be taken off the 40 man soon enough. Hopefully we never see him at Wrigley again after September.

by Dcr18 on Aug 7, 2011 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

He'd get shelled

Dolis is definitely not ready yet

by Mulhollandmania on Aug 7, 2011 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

He hasn't dominated, but I wouldn't say he's been shelled.

He still hasn’t showed the ability to rack up Ks like he should, but he’s got an ERA under 3.50 and has been pitching pretty well of late. If he can finish strong to end the season, I don’t see a problem with giving him a cup of coffee. I’d much rather see him over Maine or Berg.

by Dcr18 on Aug 7, 2011 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

He hasn't gotten shelled

I just think he would get shelled in MLB. Of guys who would be viewed as higher-tier bullpen prospects, I would rather see Beliveau, Gaub, and Cabrera. Beliveau will need to be added to 40 man after the year anyway, we need to find out what, if anything, Gaub can do, and Cabrera and Dolis are similar, but I think Cabrera is a bit further along in development, though he’s about 9 months younger and was added to the 40 man a year after Dolis.

by Mulhollandmania on Aug 7, 2011 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cabrera?

Talk about being shelled. I’d rather wait for next year with him. But I agree on Beliveau, very excited about him. I’m not optimistic with Gaub, but he deserves a shot and a decent September could keep him in the mix.

by Dcr18 on Aug 8, 2011 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cabrera has been shelled

I still think he’s a bit further along than Dolis at this point. I don’t really want to see either of those 2 up yet. I wouldn’t mind seeing what Coello can do, he’s really gotten it together since coming back up to Iowa. Maybe give that guy we got from Cleveland a test run in September, too.

by Mulhollandmania on Aug 9, 2011 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wait.

You’ve called for ELEVEN players to be recalled? Maybe more than that?

It won’t happen. Teams don’t have enough playing time for 35 or 36 players. Most likely, you’ll see five or six recalls. My guesses would be: LeMahieu, Coleman, Castillo, B. Jackson, possibly another pitcher or two. That’s it.

It’s a rare team that plays September with more than 31 or 32 players.

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by Al Yellon on Aug 8, 2011 7:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd say Castillo and BJackson are definites...

LeMahieu is a possibility, but he’s struggling. I don’t expect any other position players to get the call (since Flaherty is really struggling and we don’t need more OF). I’d expect 3-4 pitchers to get the call because it never hurts to have more bullpen arms. So I’d say Coleman (who could spot start), Berg, Maine, and maybe Gaub. And Cashner if healthy.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2011 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

You have named...

… eight players. That’s likely more than they’ll have room for.

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by Al Yellon on Aug 8, 2011 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

I named 6-8

I listed LeMahieu and Gaub as possibilities, not expectations. And Cashner is still an uncertainty at this point.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think eight is pushing it.

6-7 is more likely.

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by Al Yellon on Aug 8, 2011 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

8 would only happen if a guy or two is moved...

which is entirely possible. I agree that 6-7 is more likely. As I said, some of those guys are just possibilities (not probables).

The only certainties in my opinion are Jackson and Castillo. I’d expect 3-4 arms, but it could be any of the guys I listed.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2011 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

There's a little more wiggle room there if you consider...

Hill moves down to 3rd catcher who should rarely ever play, and Ortiz is, at best, the mop up man out of the bullpen. The Cubs have several players they should bench in September, and others such as Soto, Ramirez, Pena, Byrd, Soriano, who should see a few more days off. It’s not like the Cubs have to skimp on meal money either.

--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Aug 8, 2011 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ryan Flaherty needs to be added to 40 man before we lose him.

I think we’ll see him also.

'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'

by Unique on Aug 8, 2011 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Flaherty will be added to the 40-man after the season.

He won’t be up in September.

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by Al Yellon on Aug 8, 2011 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Still don't understand why not.

'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'

by Unique on Aug 8, 2011 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

This team has nothing to lose.

Give him a couple of starts at second in September. Nothing warrants him getting more playing time than LeMahieu.

'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'

by Unique on Aug 8, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's supposed to read.

*Nothing warrants LeMahieu getting more playing time than him.

'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'

by Unique on Aug 8, 2011 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd argue that opposite...

LeMahieu’s taken to promotions better than Flaherty has, and this little slump in AAA is the first real noticeable one for LeMahieu in pro ball. Even then he’s hitting Flaherty by a good .080 points in BA…

Not that Flaherty doesn’t have his argument…he’s 2 years old, coming off his best season, has more present power….

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

We're basically arguing over who is less undeserving of a call-up...

Neither player is really showing anything in AAA that warrants a call-up this year. LeMahieu is OBPing under .300 and OPSing .612, while Flaherty is OBPing under .250 and OPSing .535.

Flaherty will be on the 40-man this November, but he’s not showing much to suggest he should be up in September. LeMahieu is now already on the 40-man, but has struggled in AAA and didn’t show much in his very brief stint in the majors (.514 OPS).

Both are guys that will hopefully respond next year and earn call-ups.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think they'll....

leave him down too. In the upper minors he’s struggled upon initial call ups, and my guess is that he’d be overmatched in an initial callup to the big leagues.

Given his performance in AA when the offense was loaded with our best minor league hitters, maybe he’ll play up when he’s around more talent.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Don't forget, there are several guys on the current MLB roster who should be outrighted

Starting with Ortiz and Lopez. I also think they should bring up Castillo, play him in at least half the games in September, and nail Hill to the bench.

by ClarkFan on Aug 8, 2011 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Also true...

Also, another player or two could still be traded before September.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ideally

I would like to see Ortiz DFA’d Aug 31, Lopez can stay as the 15th man in the staff because he is an arm you can abuse if necessary,
DeWitt, Campana, Johnson, Soriano and Barney benched
Soto relegated to backing up Castillo with Hill relieveing the bullpen catcher of his duties
Dempster, Garza and Z put on pitch counts of about 80 pitches
Coleman slotted as the #5 starter with Wells to the Pen and Jay Jackson as the #4 starter
DJLM at 2nd, Jackson in CF, Colvin RF, Byrd LF

by hansman1982 on Aug 8, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

DJLM has been atrocious at AAA

I’d rather see Barney for now unless Lemahieu or Flaherty starts hitting in the next few weeks.

by Dcr18 on Aug 8, 2011 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

the thing with Barney

is that we have seen what he will be most years – a .275-.280 hitter that plays solid D, decent in the clutch and not much power or OBP – I wouldnt mind giving DJLM an extended look in the bigs to see what he could do, its possible that after his taste earlier this year he just wants nothing to do with AAA anymore…

by hansman1982 on Aug 9, 2011 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I doubt that's the case with LeMahieu

and if it was the case, I’d think less of him as a player.

LeMahieu has promise, but he’s probably a year or two from ready. He looked overmatched in MLB and has struggled in AAA, and he’s never shown any real signs of power at any level, including college. He’s got a frame that could project power, but it has yet to materialize.

I’d give LeMahieu another half year or so in AAA to rebound and maybe start to show some power. The AVG (prior to AAA) was always nice, but always pretty empty too. The AVG wouldn’t be enough to make him a valuable MLBer – he’ll need some power to develop.

by SouthernCub on Aug 10, 2011 6:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

LeMahieu might have been pushed because he could be trade bait.

It’s something I’ve been thinking about since they sent him to Iowa rather than Tennessee after the callup.

I do agree that it’ll be 2-3 years before we see what his ceiling is as a player. I still feel like it can be quite high. His athleticism and the skills he DOES have remain mega-underrated because everyone’s so focused on what he DOESN’T have.

by SenorGato on Aug 10, 2011 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

The reason is that what he DOESN'T have right now makes him mediocre right now

If he does eventually develop that power (I doubt he’ll ever be a high-BB guy) then I agree his ceiling is quite high. But without it, he’d be a .650-.725 OPS guy.

I’m hopeful he’ll get that power, because if he could do so with the high AVG skills he’s showed at the lower levels he’d be terrific. That’s a big if though.

by SouthernCub on Aug 10, 2011 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, well,

Quade played Hill for most of last September. I expect more of the same.

"I lof to hit de home ron!"

by Tekboy on Aug 9, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cleveanger

will sit just like Beef did last year for the favor of Hill

by Grockcubs on Aug 8, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Still not funny

Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie

by BeerCub on Aug 8, 2011 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

How old are you?

Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the ground each morning the devil says, "OH CRAP, SHE'S UP"!

by sue369 on Aug 9, 2011 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

All right, all right, a bad joke

But if the guys from the minors come up an sit for guys like Hill and DeWitt, September is a failure. And I recognize that Quade is the problem, DeWitt and Hill just play when and where they are told.

by ClarkFan on Aug 10, 2011 5:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sounds good to me.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Aug 7, 2011 11:07 PM CDT reply actions  

I'm afraid Colvin won't stick

and Jackson will be in right with Byrd and Soriano.

The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney

by SouthWabashSoul on Aug 7, 2011 11:12 PM CDT reply actions  

I'm going to be pretty mad if Colvin doesn't start almost everyday

for the rest of the season. Put him in the lineup and don’t mess with him. Quit taking him out. Campana doesn’t need PT. He can have a start or two a week, but he’s not a guy we should be forcing into the lineup. Colvin and Jackson need to be in almost everyday.

by Ryno G on Aug 7, 2011 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

You know who'd be a good mentor for young Jackson?

That really good former elite CF/player who’s now just an AS RF at 35,

by SenorGato on Aug 7, 2011 11:45 PM CDT reply actions  

I['m assuming your talking about Carlos Beltran.

And no. Still a bad idea. If Soriano returns for 2012, I don’t see why the Cubs would want two aging players in left and right.

Now if Soriano doesn’t return… then maybe.

'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'

by Unique on Aug 8, 2011 7:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

It really is all dependant on Soriano

If you had an outfield of Byrd-Jackson-Beltran… that’s something to look forward to.

by subtle on Aug 8, 2011 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

If we eat

90%+ of Soriano’s salary no chance in hell we get Beltran…

by hansman1982 on Aug 8, 2011 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's a pretty badass OF.

Lots of athleticism, intelligence, savvy, and less irritating offensive games.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I could take Byrd in LF as well. I hate him in RF, however.

by RynoRooter on Aug 8, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Decent idea...

except for not having anywhere near the money to sign Beltran. People thinking that just have no idea how good of a season he’s had and how good he’s been in New York even during his “injury seasons”. He’s not going to come cheap beacuse he’s “now just an AS RF”. I expect the Red Sox to make a huge push for him with JD Drew’s contract expiring and also not having Ortiz locked up.

--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Aug 8, 2011 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dude money is something the Cubs will have this offseason.

If not Beltran, then someone in the vicinity of.

by SenorGato on Aug 11, 2011 9:40 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Dude money is about what they'll have...

and that might buy you a couple houses on State Street, but it’s certainly not enough real money for Beltran and every other premium free agent on the market like you expect them to sign. Until they actually come out and say “we won’t drop our payroll like we did last year” and “our new general manager will eventually have a payroll to compete for the highest in the National League” (meaning north of $150m, conservatively), I’m not going to buy in to your fairy tale assumptions of what the team actually has to spend.

--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Aug 11, 2011 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Along with attendence being down

and probably projected to continue to fall. Id guess that with attendance falling – so will the budget.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Aug 11, 2011 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jackson's nice but...

….I’ll bet he comes yoked with Dave Bush. Where’s a starting pitcher gonna come from in the sytem?

by Long Rose on Aug 8, 2011 9:00 AM CDT reply actions  

Still 24 days...

before call-ups. That’s a lot of time for Colvin to work on that sub-.200 AVG. Quade simply needs to play Colvin now and they can make a call on him by the time BJax gets called up. Colvin might very well lose his job to BJax — just have to wait and see.

by sedgy145 on Aug 8, 2011 9:19 AM CDT reply actions  

He's 4-for-17 with 2 walks since the Kosuke trade.

With 2 walks. He clearly needs to do better. If you throw out last week’s game against Pittsburgh, he has 1 hit since being recalled.

I haven’t watched enough lately to know whether he’s been the victim of a lot of hard-hit outs. But assuming that’s not the case, Tyler really needs to start hitting/walking.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed. He needs to pick it up. When I've watched in the past week it seems like he pops

up to the infield or shallow outfield almost every time. Might just when I happened to be watching though.

by the nth on Aug 8, 2011 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

FWIW

he has a .129 BABIP this year…

by hansman1982 on Aug 8, 2011 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

It sucks that he's been unlucky there...

He’d be having a decent year if his luck would have just broke even, but he also has a .143 ISO, so it’s not just luck hurting him.

--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Aug 8, 2011 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not just luck

He’s making contact with worse pitches (his O-Zone contact % is way up) and popping stuff up much, much more often.

BABIP is only indicative of luck when everything else is equal. In Colvin’s case, his peripherals tell a story of a guy who suddenly can’t hit fastballs and is making worse contact this year.

by Wreckard on Aug 8, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's why I said decent...

meaning not anywhere near as good at last year. I also went out my way to say he’s not hitting with any power “so it’s not just luck hurting him”. Regardless of his peripherals, you’re not going to get a BABIP that low without some luck going against you.

--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Aug 8, 2011 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

See my post right below this

His FB% is up 10% this year, and his LD% is down 7%. Hitting more pop flies and less line drives will do more than luck to lower your BABIP.

by Wreckard on Aug 8, 2011 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Probably because he's hitting 10% more fly balls

His line drive % is down almost as much as his fly ball % is up too. That explains the awful BABIP.

by Wreckard on Aug 8, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

If Colvin can turn it around, if he can

Jackson and Colvin would be very nice, cheap assets in the out field. That way we can use money to attract an all-star SP and/or 1b.

Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!

by Chanman25 on Aug 8, 2011 9:56 AM CDT reply actions  

Especially because it means we can trade Byrd.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Here's my thinking.

The Cubs didn’t trade Byrd because they didn’t want to be stuck with a hole in center next year if Jackson or Colvin aren’t ready. But if both guys look like starters next year, the Cubs will try to trade Byrd in the offseason.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hoope your right.

I wouldn’t mind him returning if Soriano can somehow be ditched, but I’m not holding my breath.

by Dcr18 on Aug 8, 2011 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't be surprised if our outfield is Colvin-Byrd-Jackson on Opening Day.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

that would be a good

retoiled (combo retool and rebuild since we dont have the core to retool and our big market status wont let us rebuild) outfield with a Baker/Flaherty, Castro, Barney/DJLM/Baker, Fielder IF

by hansman1982 on Aug 9, 2011 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jackson certainly exposes the weakness in the Cubs system

He’s the number one guy in the system and is on a Colby Rasmus-esque trajectory. He does walk and will be a huge upgrade for the Cubs outfield but he’s not putting up future star numbers.

by subtle on Aug 8, 2011 9:57 AM CDT reply actions  

Colby Rasmus would be a hell of an outcome....

and that’s a very good thing to have in your system. Rasmus is considered to be a future star, as would most CF’s who’ve put up a ~4.5 WAR season before 25.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

I said it once before, but I’d gladly take Colby Rasmus’s 2010 season out of my CF every year.

by RynoRooter on Aug 8, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah but I was talking about Colby Rasmus this year

It’s really hard to find a player with Jackson’s strikeout and walk ratios at the ML level who you can compare his skills to. He hasn’t shown the type of power in the minors that most 25-a-year homer guys demonstrate. He can steal bases, but he only steals them at a 2:1 ratio which is enough to be a threat but not something to write home about.

by subtle on Aug 8, 2011 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

How about this for a Jackson comp?

Brett Jackson’s career minor league line:

.885 OPS (.292/.394/.491), 37 HR in 1,234 AB, 61/20 SB/CS, 288/164 K/BB

Grady Sizemore’s career minor league line:

.791 OPS (.289/.378/.413), 28 HR in 2,332 AB, 96/48 SB/CS, 335/264 K/BB

Sizemore had a better minor league K/BB ratio, but Jackson’s isn’t terrible and (FWIW) it’s similar to Sizemore’s major league K/BB ratio (806/429). Everything else is in Jackson’s favor. Despite not showing huge power in the minor leagues, Sizemore ended up hitting 25-30 HR per year while stealing bases at a higher ratio than 2:1 in the major leagues before his injuries.

by Jody Jody Davis on Aug 9, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

I saw a Ray Lankford

comp over on John Sickles article – no idea if it is a good comp but a name I havent seen over here much

by hansman1982 on Aug 9, 2011 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is the exact comparison I've had for him since 2010.

'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'

by Unique on Aug 9, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jackson's power seems to have developed earlier

Sizemore’s power wasn’t evident in the minors but it was assumed. He had a lot more patience than Jackson.

Whatever happens, I just pray Jackson doesn’t fall victim to God’s wrath or whatever it is that has happened to Grady Sizemore over the last 3 seasons.

I have this worry that Jackson will be like Jeff Francouer with above average speed and defense. His BABIP right now is pretty unsustainable. His average and OBP will fall as he gets less lucky.

by subtle on Aug 9, 2011 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jackson is a very dissimilar hitter to Francoeur

Jackson has worlds of patience at the plate. Francoeur had none.

Also, I’m not convinced his BABIP is evidence of luck or that it’s entirely unsustainable. He’s had a BABIP of .350 or above at every level other than AA, which suggests he’ll always be a higher-than-AVG BABIP type of guy. His BABIP this year is lower than his BABIP in A- and A+ ball. I don’t think he’ll be a .300 hitter in MLB, but .250-.270 with a very high OBP is probably the expectation, with .270-.290 within reason.

BABIP isn’t purely a measure of luck, though it can be evidence of luck. But that’s usually when you see a guy who is way outside of his career norm in BABIP. Jackson’s BABIP is right in line with what he’s always done, so I wouldn’t call his AAA success due to luck. Not everybody should be expected to have a .300 BABIP (otherwise you’d never have .300+ hitters).

by SouthernCub on Aug 10, 2011 6:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

It should always be noted

how hitter friendly the PCL is. I’m not saying that as a reason to disregard Jackson’s potential. Only that we should view Jackson as doing what we would hope our top prospect is able to do at AAA. That said, I’m very excited to see him in the majors come September.

by Bradsbeard on Aug 8, 2011 11:23 AM CDT reply actions  

Tyler Colvin's PCL numbers...

suck.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 8, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, he's just probably going to be our starting RF'er in 2012....

remind me again why we should be optimistic about next year again.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 8, 2011 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure we should be too optimistic about next year

but I’m also not sure Colvin starts either. I think Byrd will be back with Jackson in CF. Maybe Colvin starts if we trade or release Soriano, in which case he wouldn’t be much worse.

by Bradsbeard on Aug 8, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

not if Colvin continues playing like he is

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Aug 8, 2011 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Colvin is Jacque Jones

minus the multiple good years.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Aug 8, 2011 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's kinda premature.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Obviously it is.

Just how I see it playing out. Home run swinging left handed right fielder.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Aug 8, 2011 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

A lot of it comes down to how smart/adaptive Colvin can be.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah I agree

Being wise about and during the game is very underrated. After umping hundreds of baseball games I can assure you that I will have an undefeated 13 year old team every year.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Aug 8, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think he'll ever learn how to take a walk.

Just my opinion, of course.

FIRE JIM HENDRY. Injuries aren't the problem.

by shoemile on Aug 8, 2011 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're probably right

Very few players learn plate discipline at the major league level. Other than Sammy Sosa, I can’t think of anyone who has the same profile as Colvin (high K and low BB) who eventually learned to draw walks later in his career.

by Jody Jody Davis on Aug 8, 2011 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sosa's actually a terrific example.

He clearly had some (ahem) supplemental help. But, strangely, Sosa became a smarter baseball player around the same time. He became less of a hacker and even started to hit the ball the other way. There was once a really strong Phil Rogers column (broken clock) that talked about how Sosa threw a lot of that away after 2001 (his best season) and started swinging for the fences again. Rogers’ theory was that Sosa was trying to compete with Bonds, and that his decline was accelerated by the Bellhorn collision in late 2003 and the HBP by Salomon Torres in early 2003.

Whether was right about the cause of the decline — Sosa might have just been aging — his OPS did decline from above 1.000 from 1998-2001 to .849 in 2004.

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by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right - Sosa is one example

And there’s no doubt that he changed his approach to hitting in 1998, taking more pitches and hitting the ball the other way more often. But some of his improved plate discipline during the time frame you set out also came from pitchers being more careful pitching to him thanks to the “Flintstones vitamins” he was taking.

But again, that’s the only example I can come up with.

by Jody Jody Davis on Aug 8, 2011 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's a great question.

Did Sosa become more patient/smarter because of the supplements, or are the two unrelated? There’s probably not a clear-cut answer.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Aug 8, 2011 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Serious question

Is there any real difference between Tyler Colvin and say, James Adduci? Because having seen both play, the only real one I can discern is that Colvin was drafted number one by the Cubs a few years ago and Adduci was the 42nd round pick of another team whom we acquired in a trade. Why does Colvin get all these chances and Adduci languishes in the minors? Both are about the same size, play the outfield, bat and throw left. Colvin has a bit more power, but Adduci’s OBP has always been higher.

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by BeerCub on Aug 8, 2011 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Upside

Adduci has Sam Fuld power, this is his first year with a sluggin % over .400 since 06. He has above average but not great speed, and doesn’t really have any tool that wows you. Best case scenario for him would be a fifth outfielder, while Colvin at least has big power potential if he can figure it out again could be an everyday starter.

by Dcr18 on Aug 8, 2011 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Adduci wasn't overdrafted...

and then rushed to the majors by a desperate team. Colvin would have been better off if they had done that to Adduci instead. Adduci really hasn’t been worth much when his numbers haven’t been propped up by a .350+ BABIP, and he’s still never had any power to speak of.

--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Aug 8, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

There's a lot of difference

Colvin is a power guy with not much speed, Adduci is a speed guy with a little pop.

But Colvin has had better OPS numbers (with the exception of AA, Colvin’s OPS is about 100 points higher at each level) than Adduci throughout the minors while being a couple of years younger at the same levels.

Adduci has had a good year this year after being demoted from Iowa last year (where he was terrible). But this is really the first year he’s put up really good numbers.

by SouthernCub on Aug 9, 2011 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Colvin is a few years away from

playing for the Nippon manager – Bobby Scales.

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"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Aug 8, 2011 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

The OBP is what I love

Hitters league or now

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Aug 8, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

And it's been good at every stop, not just AAA

I think Jackson has a chance to be a very good MLB player, even if he’s never seen as a star.

by Bradsbeard on Aug 8, 2011 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jackson player comp....

Curtis Granderson?

I expect this from Jackson:

- Moderate batting average. He’s got a good enough swing that I think he could pull off hitting .300 in a season one day, but mostly I expect around a league average BA or so with a couple .275 and .280’s in there.

- Good iso numbers in both patience and power.

- Doubles.

- D that depending on how many diving catches he makes will get hyped.

- 20+ HR potential with maybe a 30 HR season sprinkled in.

- 20+ SB potential.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 12:12 PM CDT reply actions  

I don't think Granderson is quite the right comp (Granderson is faster)...

I don’t know that he’s known for great defense, but I don’t think he’s supposed to be a liability either. I’d guess 15-20 HR power and 15-25 SB speed. I think the power could always increase with time, but the speed will likely decrease with time (especially if the power goes up).

I’d say that the optimal case would be a slower, less defensively gifted Mike Cameron (in his prime) or a faster Jim Edmonds (if he gets a lot more power).

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2011 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think Granderson's all that fast tbh.

His game’s not really speed at all to be honest. He’s solid in the area, but his thing is that he’s solid at everything.

by SenorGato on Aug 8, 2011 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think a good speed comp for Jackson

is Matt Kemp.

'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'

by Unique on Aug 8, 2011 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

People get alittle to excited to jump on someone.

'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'

by Unique on Aug 9, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

I just think Granderson is faster

I think that’s the case now, and I think it’ll be even more the case in a few years. It seems like Jackson is a bit heavier than Granderson, and bigger guys tend to slow down faster.

by SouthernCub on Aug 9, 2011 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Heavier?

You make him sound like a hefty guy. He’s just not skinny, skinny like Granderson, he’s filled out.

by Ryno G on Aug 10, 2011 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Granderson and skinny....

Maybe when he first came up. Curtis Granderson is an absolute brickhouse nowadays.

by SenorGato on Aug 10, 2011 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

A brickhouse on a much more slender frame

You can be chiseled and still be slender. Jackson’s just built on a bigger frame than Granderson, which is why I don’t see him having Granderson-like speed as he gets into his prime.

by SouthernCub on Aug 10, 2011 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's built like this guy????

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by BeerCub on Aug 11, 2011 7:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Still disagreed....

Granderson really is not slender except in his early career. His upper body is very filled out. Nor is he known for his speed…which is above average.

Were gonna have to agree to disagree because Ive see Granderson everyday for two years and that is not a slender guy.

by SenorGato on Aug 11, 2011 10:08 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I just said he was a bit heavier... he's about 30lbs heavier.

And that’s in his early 20s. Guys usually get heavier as they get into their late-20s/early-30s. So if he’s starting with a heavier build, it’s logical he’ll continue that trend moving forward.

That’s not to say he’s chunky or out of shape. As you said, Granderson has a very slender frame (one that he’s packed muscle on, but still very slender). I see Jackson developing into an Edmonds-type build.

by SouthernCub on Aug 10, 2011 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't remember who made the comp.,

but possibly a Jim Edmonds type with a little less glove and a little less power?

Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson

by TheBeerBaron on Aug 8, 2011 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

You mean Chet Lemon?

It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??

by Invalid User on Aug 8, 2011 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd be perfectly fine with that.

Not a lot of people remember him, but Lemon was an extremely underrated player who had a higher career WAR (56.9, in 1,988 games) than Kirby Puckett (49.4 in 1,783 games) or Bernie Williams (47.5 in 2,076 games).

by Jody Jody Davis on Aug 8, 2011 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Even more was his consistency

After his rookie year, where he was basically at replacement level for an offensively hideous White Sox team, he reeled off 12 straight seasons of 3+ WAR as per fangraphs.

If the Cubs can get even 25 offensive WAR from Brett Jackson, he’ll be a stunning success. The question to me is whether he can handle CF defensively, or will he end up in RF where he’ll have to put up better offensive numbers.

It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??

by Invalid User on Aug 10, 2011 5:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Chet Lemon

is one of my favorite non-Cubs of all time. I’d be happy with that.

by Josh Timmers on Aug 9, 2011 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lemon was a baller!!

Loved Lyman Bostock, as well!

by daily2b on Aug 9, 2011 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

One of my all-time favorites

Couldn’t believe it when I heard he got killed.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 10, 2011 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd like to see Jackson in Center, Byrd in Right, and Colvin and Sori split time in left.

I don’t think Sori is going anywhere unless the Cubs just release him. Surely even he can see how much his skill has regressed. I don’t care how much he’s making the Cubs could get the same if not better production from a league min. player. If Colvin is the starting left fielder next year, I think his numbers will be very similar to Sori’s last two seasons with the possibly of improvement with a chance to play everyday.

It is sad because Sori seems like a very likable person, and a good teammate. Maybe he could accept being a 18 million dollar bench player, maybe he’ll be more productive with less playing time because of age. At this point its time to find out. If he’s not happy with it
maybe he’ll be motivated to restructure the rest of his contract so he can be released.

by wfree0104 on Aug 8, 2011 12:40 PM CDT reply actions  

Colvin/Soriano split is what I would like to see

until Szczur is ready. Soriano is now a platoon player. He still has posted a line of .291/.333/.557 against LHP this season. So, strictly platooning the two won’t kill the team.

Face it, Colvin’s development has been crushed. He’s a 4th OF’er unless he plays for another team.

Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson

by TheBeerBaron on Aug 8, 2011 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Best case scenario is that Soriano is a 100-120 game/year player

i don’t think it is a coincidence that his numbers have gone down over the course of both 2010 and 2011 – he isn’t an every day player and wears out. That is just accelerating with each passing year. And Byrd was a 130-game maximum player until last year, when (surprise!) his numbers declined as the year went along.

If the manager would use his brain and not just plug in the same lineup every day, there is a strong role for a 4th OF in this team (400 PAs is readily possible). It may be Colvin, it may not, but even if Soriano plays in Chicago in 2012, the 4th OF should get a lot of time.

by ClarkFan on Aug 8, 2011 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

byrd

should have gone to the braves to clear space.quade and hendry are trying to win games here.to save their jobs.thus the reluctance to play young talent.shame.

by NOMAR on Aug 13, 2011 7:42 AM CDT reply actions  

Maybe the Cubs are waiting for his BABIP to fall from orbit before passing judgment

Even though he’s sustained a high BABIP through his minor league career, there’s no way he can sustain a .379 BABIP. That’s unheard of at any level. It’s really hard to pass judgment on how he’s adjusting until he’s getting a little less lucky on balls in play.

by subtle on Aug 16, 2011 12:02 PM CDT reply actions  

You're right...

but it doesn’t mean it’s going to fall to below above-average. That’s an awkward way of pointing out I predict he’ll post above-average BABIPs because of him walking/striking out so much, hitting line drives and having some speed. It really does go both ways… until he shows that his BABIP will fluctuate greatly, you can’t assume he’ll do anything other than post high marks in that category. Howie Kendrick is a good example, whether or not he’s a good comp for Jackson.

--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Aug 16, 2011 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Some of the best prospects in the game go through the minors with highly inflated BABIP

It’s really not that uncommon. No one is saying Jackson will do it in the majors, but that’s why we’re predicting him as a .270ish hitter instead of a .300 hitter.

by bdlugz on Aug 16, 2011 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know this is par for the course over.

But this was just a Fantastic discussion. I learned a lot by reading it. You guys know some baseball!!

by abba7 on Aug 16, 2011 2:50 PM CDT reply actions  

Latest on Jackson from Jason Parks from Baseball Prospectus

Parks summed this up in his weekly podcast so I don’t fee bad reposting just the closing line on Jackson:

“Jackson lacks the tools to be a star, but he’ll be Mr. Solid-Average at the major-league level, and that’s an extremely valuable commodity to have under team control for six seasons.”

Parks surveyed a lot of front office personnel and scouts and did mention that Jackson was on every list of top centerfield prospects.

by subtle on Aug 22, 2011 8:32 AM CDT reply actions  

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