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Around SBN: Full Coverage of 2012 Coke 600

Cubs Journey Past 9/11 Into 9/12 To Defeat Mets 10-6

If the Cubs score and no one was there to see it, did it really happen? Tyler Colvin and Alfonso Soriano of the Chicago Cubs celebrate scoring in the eleventh inning against the New York Mets at Citi Field in the Flushing neighborhood of the Queens borough of New York City.  (Photo by Jim McIsaac/Getty Images)

Thanks, Jeff Samardzija.

If you could have just fielded your position properly in the eighth inning -- you induced an easy comebacker by Justin Turner -- the Cubs would have gone into the ninth with a 4-3 lead, and even with Carlos Marmol being Cardiac Closer this year, they probably would have won in regulation time and ended by 11 p.m. Eastern time. This was important on Sunday because hordes of football fans were waiting for ESPN's SportsCenter to give them highlights of the first game of the NFL season.

How inconsiderate.

I can afford to joke about this now because the Cubs and Mets, thus tied 4-4, played for nearly two more hours before the Cubs exploded for a six-run 11th inning and beat the Mets 10-6, but not before John Grabow made it interesting by allowing a long two-run homer to Jason Pridie in the bottom of the inning, as the clock approached 1 a.m.

48 players, including 15 pitchers -- and for once, the other team used more pitchers than the Cubs did -- appeared in this game, including some Mets callups I had never heard of. Mike Baxter? Dale Thayer? Valentino Pascucci? (No, I did not make that one up.) Josh Stinson? Josh Satin? (In fact, the Mets used three players named "Josh" in this game, including catcher Josh Thole, who didn't start, but entered as a pinch-runner in the eighth inning.)

If you wanted to see a lot of baseball (including BCB's own Doggie Stalker, Jessica, who stayed till the end -- hoping she will post in the comments), you got your wish Sunday night. If you wanted to see a lot of good baseball -- well, you should have been watching another game.

Star-divide

The Cubs left 12 men on base. This isn't unusual. It's the 24th time they have left 10 or more runners on base this season. For once, they got outdone in that department. The Mets left 15 men on base, including leaving the bases loaded in both the ninth and 10th innings -- and in the ninth, they had the bases loaded with less than two out and could not score. Samardzija struck out Pridie on a 3-2 pitch, when he was one pitch out of the strike zone from walking in the winning run.

I have to say, that was impressive.

So was the Cubs' winning rally -- started by a four-pitch walk to Marlon Byrd. This is almost impossible to do. Prior to Sunday night Byrd had only 19 unintentional walks in 426 plate appearances. Bryan LaHair singled (more on him later). Carlos Pena singled him in with the lead run, and then Tyler Colvin walked to load the bases.

Again, that's a nearly impossible task. Colvin, before Sunday, had 10 unintentional walks in 206 plate appearances. Colvin also drove in three runs on Sunday, giving him 20 for the season with a .153 batting average. If that average doesn't come up before the season ends, it will be the third-lowest BA for anyone who had 20 or more RBI in a season. (And it's not good company. The guy ahead of him on this list is Bob Uecker, who hit .150 in 1967 while driving in 20 runs.)

A pair of two-run doubles by Alfonso Soriano -- the last position player the Cubs had -- and Darwin Barney made it 9-4, and Geovany Soto completed the scoring with a sacrifice fly.

Easy win now, right? A six-run lead in the 11th inning, with the clock pushing 1 a.m. local time?

Not so fast, because John Grabow came into the game. You'd have thought this would be the perfect time to give John Gaub -- who has been sitting patiently in the bullpen since last Tuesday without getting into a game -- his major league debut, six runs ahead in the bottom of an extra inning. Three easy outs and you're done. (Maybe Mike Quade forgot Gaub was there.)

Grabow decided to make it interesting by allowing a single to Satin -- a man playing in his fifth major league game -- and then a two-run homer to Pridie, edging his season ERA over five, before ending it. We may not know much about what the new Cubs GM, whoever it may be, will do to the roster before 2012. But I think we can be pretty certain that after 16 more games, we won't have to look at John Grabow in blue pinstripes any more. (And I say this having met some of Grabow's family in Pittsburgh two years ago. Really nice people, and I'm sure he is too. I just don't want him pitching for the Cubs any more.)

All of this happened long after Matt Garza turned in seven pretty good innings, allowing just three runs. Garza wasn't as sharp as he has been in some other recent starts, but it should have been good enough for a win. This is the seventh time this year that Garza has left the game with the lead in position for a personal "win", but did not get it due to bullpen failures, yet another example of why individual pitcher "wins" are virtually meaningless in modern baseball.

So the Cubs won the series (and season series) from the Mets and headed to Cincinnati very late Sunday night to begin their four-game set with the Reds Monday night. About LaHair... well, the man can hit. And draw walks; he had two of each. And scored four of the ten runs. Sure, he deserves more playing time this month, but again, keep in mind: it's September, and watching these two teams bumble around Citi Field this past weekend, it's not high-quality baseball by any means. Should the Cubs simply dump Pena and put LaHair in at first base, given these 20 at-bats? Of course not. But he has put himself in the conversation.

A few words about the 9/11 ceremony and subsequent controversy over the Mets' desire to wear NYPD and NYFD caps during the game. The ceremony was quite moving and well-done by the Mets; it honored those who gave their lives 10 years ago, and those who still serve, without being over-the-top. Meanwhile, the Mets wanted to wear caps honoring first responders, as they did in the first game in New York after the 9/11 attacks 10 years ago. MLB issued an edict forbidding them to do this and threatened a large fine to the team, so the Mets backed off after wearing the caps during batting practice, although at least one player wore one of the caps in the dugout during the game. There's more on the story here.

Players did wear jerseys and caps with American flags on them. Not surprisingly, you can buy one of these Mets caps or Cubs caps for $36.99 from the MLB online store. All teams wore these on Sunday, and:

# A portion of the proceeds will be donated to:
# 9/11 Memorial and Museum
# Flight 93 Memorial
# Pentagon Memorial

That's all well and good -- and there are, as you know, other similar caps worn during the season on various holidays, getting uglier and uglier every year, with portions of the proceeds to a good cause -- but in my opinion, when a team has a feeling as strongly as the Mets did to honor NYPD and NYFD first responders, MLB ought to lighten up. Joe Torre, who now works as MLB vice-president for baseball operations, but who of all people should be sensitive to this issue, having been Yankees manager in 2001, issued a typically bland corporate statement:

"Certainly it's not a lack of respect," Torre said. "We just felt all the major leagues are honoring the same way with the American flag on the uniform and the cap. This is a unanimity thing."

In 2001, the Mets wore the caps despite a threat of a fine. They should have done the same thing Sunday night. It would have been embarrassing to MLB to come down hard on the Mets for that kind of gesture. Perhaps MLB could institute a policy that once a year, teams could do this if they had a suitable cause they wanted to honor. While "unanimity" is fine, there certainly was good reason to grant an exception Sunday night.

Onward. We've still got a little bit of Cubs baseball left. Bad as it's been at times this year, you'll still miss it when it's gone for the winter.

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the Cubs are still playing baseball?

weird.

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Sep 12, 2011 8:04 AM CDT reply actions  

I get the feeling Selig's goal is to make MLB as close to the NFL as possible.

The cap ruckus is ridiculous, and they should have been allowed to wear them.

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 12, 2011 8:06 AM CDT reply actions  

Yeah, you mean the "No Fun League"?

I understand the need for structure and uniformity, up to a point. But when even Joe Torre hides behind corporate-speak, things need to change.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 12, 2011 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

’Duk at Big League Stew has the right idea:

Also, if MLB was worried about keeping control of the uniform tributes, they could have ruled that only the two New York teams and the Washington Nationals had the choice to wear organization-specific caps.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Reasonable

And they could have had these teams wear the “other caps” all weekend.

I think they were worried about sales, and it’s absurd.

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 12, 2011 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

Granted, some of the proceeds went to good causes. But when marketing trumps common sense, things need to change.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I make no bones about my beliefs, I'm a right leaning person...

…and I say that to just illustrate this point, the tribute these players pay to those on 9/11 should trump any capitalist type promotions that mlb wants to take advantage of. If all the profits aren’t going to 9/11 charities, MLB should be ashamed.

Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory­, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicate­d. - George Costanza

by troutfishin on Sep 12, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Regardless of your political leanings..

… MLB mishandled this.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree, I was simply making the point that in...

…recognizing 9/11 it should be absent of a profit motive and I’m saying that as a capitalist.

Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory­, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicate­d. - George Costanza

by troutfishin on Sep 12, 2011 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Im fine with the MLB decision...

Either decision they could have made is fine with me. I see their decision as just trying to keep the unifoms etc. from escalating in appearance year after year and giving too much freedom to the teams to change things too much. The Mets probably should have submitted an example of what they wanted to wear on 9/11 prior to this season when they submit their official uniform to MLB and maybe they would have got a better response. MLB is just trying to keep things fair and keep teams from taking too much control of uniform looks day to day. While I understand the Mets point of view, it technically isn’t fair to only allow the NY and DC teams to be the only ones who change the uniforms. Other teams may have equally strong ties to 9/11 while not necessarily being from the area.

by adam316 on Sep 12, 2011 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's not like the Mets want to wear different caps every day of the year.

It’s ONE day, a day on which they’re already having a nationally-televised ceremony honoring the same people they wanted to honor with the caps.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well I am not really disagreeing with you, I just "understand" MLB's point

They probably feel they have to draw the line somewhere. Maybe this isn’t where to draw it however.

by adam316 on Sep 12, 2011 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I can see "drawing the line"...

… where it needs to be drawn. I’d agree that they picked the wrong place & time to do that.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

True

I don’t think any other MLB team would have been upset about it, and that probably should have been the though process of MLB, “No body will complain about it, just let ’em do it.”

by adam316 on Sep 12, 2011 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

To add

It was probably more about the Mets not having officially submitted the idea through the correct MLB channels well in advance or some sort of technicality like that. They might have just been saying to the Mets, “You didn’t submit this idea officially as a uniform submission when you were supposed to, therefor this uniform modification was not approved by MLB.” That said, maybe a special consideration by MLB would have been in order.

by adam316 on Sep 12, 2011 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think it's just another example of MLB and Bud

putting MLB marketing ahead of what is right…

The big reason the Mets couldn’t wear the NYPD and FDNY hats was they didn’t have the MLB logo on them and a cut of the sales going to MLB.
The problem is Bud will have his job as long as he wants it cause he’s an owner. Honestly as an owner or former owner I’m shocked the players union hasn’t made a point that it’s a conflict of interest…

On a personal note… Bud needs a Boot to the Head

Speachless...

by Endrick on Sep 12, 2011 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not only that, and the marketing that epsilon cites, but

Uniformity for it’s own sake ala team websites (the Cubs had one of the better ones before MLB took over), expanding the playoffs, etc.

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 12, 2011 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

and here's the reason why:
Players did wear jerseys and caps with American flags on them. Not surprisingly, you can buy one of these Mets caps or Cubs caps for $36.99 from the MLB online store. All teams wore these on Sunday, and:

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Sep 12, 2011 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well, yes.

But this one cried out for an exception. I was almost hoping the Cubs would come out on the field wearing the NYPD and NYFD caps, just to make the point.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

maybe they did...I barely saw any Cubs players during the ceromony

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Sep 12, 2011 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

it definitely cried out for an exception...but then that would take away from the marketing

and advertisement of the same Cubs and/or Mets hat you already own, but now show your team pride while showing your patriotism for only $36.99.

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Sep 12, 2011 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

you know how much money they could have raised for charities if each cap was signed by that player....

plus, that’s all they had to do was wear them for one inning. The caps were honoring the Fire Men/Police who gave their lives on 9/11 for god’s sake. eh, it’s over now.

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Sep 12, 2011 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

I wanted to see both teams wearing them in the 7th inning wrapped around the singing of "God Bless America"

and daring the league to say something.

It would be more likely the Mets doing it. The Cubs do not have enough leadership for something like that.

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

That would have been a cool idea.

But geez,, do you have to get in a dig about the Cub’s leadership at every chance?

Football? Football? What's a football?-Ralphie Parker

by katie casey on Sep 12, 2011 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

oh brother

Football? Football? What's a football?-Ralphie Parker

by katie casey on Sep 12, 2011 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

You know I am not...

The Cubs have a hard time coming out for the National Anthem, let alone doing something like that.

Good for David Wright for wearing the hat at least in the dugout.

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

The point the Mets were trying to make

In 2001, the Mets and the Yankees wore NYPD and FDNY during games. They wore caps that were given to them by families of first responders and by people they met as they helped out with recovery efforts. Their opponents in 2001 wore their regular caps (as far as I know).

I don’t think the Cubs wearing NYPD or FDNY caps in 2011 would have been right or wrong. But the historical context was not there for the Cubs. It was for the Mets.

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza

by RiskyBusiness on Sep 12, 2011 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whatever the reason...I doubt the Cubs would do it.

The Mets should have said screw this and wore them anyways.

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Then criticize the Mets if you want to...

…..no reason to use this as a chance to rip the Cubs

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Do you have a problem with them not coming out for the anthem?

Only a few do…..It has been discussed here many times.

Just wondering.

I am saying leadership should have taken place a long time ago.

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

RA Dickey

said MLB confiscated them so they couldn’t wear them.

by Josh Timmers on Sep 12, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Confiscated?

What is MLB, a junior-high teacher playing hall monitor?

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by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is anyone actually surprised?

It’s Bud’s way or the highway.

If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.

by tharr on Sep 12, 2011 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

The irony is

had they allowed the Mets to wear the caps they wanted I would have been more moved. I’m a huge sucker for buying extra caps and would have bought the Cubs cap with the flag in a heartbeat. Now I’m disgusted and won’t.

However on another note…if the Mets would have worn the FDNY/NYPD I would have had a hard time rooting against them.

Football? Football? What's a football?-Ralphie Parker

by katie casey on Sep 12, 2011 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Agree with this...

The league makes it seem like a money making deal….

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

I suspect that the league sees this exclusively as a money making deal.

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Sep 12, 2011 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't call it gross. I think dishonest is more accurate.

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Sep 12, 2011 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed in principle - however, they also donate MLB's proceeds from these hats

None of this is to say that Selig made the right decision (he didn’t) or that it doesn’t look completely shameful that he made Joe Torre the public face of the decision (it does), presumably because Torre has earned more respect in NYC than Bud ever will.

But all that being said, while New Era is certainly making more than a few bucks off these hats, MLB donates its own revenues from their sale to a charity for returning veterans:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20110517&content_id=19179488&vkey=pr_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Key quote:

With the support of Major League Baseball and its Clubs, Welcome Back Veterans since 2008 has awarded more than $10 million in grants to 30 non-profit agencies across the country targeting veterans’ greatest needs, including mental health and job training/placement.



MLB Properties, Inc. and MLB.com each will donate all of their respective net proceeds received from the sale of the caps to Welcome Back Veterans.

by Orval Overall on Sep 12, 2011 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have the first Cubs cap and I like it

Unfortunately, MLB’s merchandising department is very boring. Their edict is uniformity. The worst example is their division winner/playoff series winner/WS winner gear – same design for all the teams and they are just waiting to see who wins. I’m thinking of the Gray t-shirts and I have a Cubs Division t-shirt from 2008.

I think before that, the teams did their own t-shirts and focused on team colors. They were much better.

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza

by RiskyBusiness on Sep 12, 2011 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lance Briggs said he intended

to wear patriotic gloves and shoes in yesterdays game and didn’t care if he got fined for doing so. Roger Goodell said he had no problem with that and encouraged other players to show their patriotism.

Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the ground each morning the devil says, "OH CRAP, SHE'S UP"!

by sue369 on Sep 12, 2011 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Briggs is a really good guy. A friend of mine has worked with him on some comic book charitable things.

Funny thing is my friend doesn’t know football from a hole in the ground. Right after he started doing some things with Lance we were out during a game and it was on tv. He asked me to point out Lance on the field. I had to explain that the Bears were on offense.

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Someomne told me at work they heard the Cubs were also going to wear the hats or perhaps wear Chicago Fire Department hats.

And all the money donated to charity from auctioning them off.

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

ESPN's guys praised LeHair's compact swing

Like what I’ve seen hope to keep seeing it!!

by QuincyCub on Sep 12, 2011 8:09 AM CDT reply actions  

Garza really struggled in the first inning.

Garza has an efficient first inning, maybe he goes one deeper int he game.

What I am most impressed about LaHair is his patience at the plate and his strength, he is a bull.

I may be in the minority here but I like Bobby Valentine on SNBaseball. Notice again how he praised Darwin Barney.

Kudos for the pregame and the story of the widow who brought her 3 sons to the game 10 years ago. That one made my eyes wet. Piazza too was sincerely emotional. Good job Mets, you got one right.

We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.

by mrcubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 8:17 AM CDT reply actions  

As much as I found some of the hoopla surrounding 9/11 embarrassing, the MLB cap ban is really stupid and disrespectful, IMHO.

BTW: Lying in the Bath at 6:30 AM while listening the last innings of the game was kind of fun.

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Sep 12, 2011 8:26 AM CDT reply actions  

Well, to date LaHair has done much more than I expected...

Here’s hoping that he continues this going forward. I’m slowly turning from guarded pessimism to guarded optimism… next step, cautious optimism!!

by bdlugz on Sep 12, 2011 8:31 AM CDT reply actions  

Yeah, that's about where I am with him, too.

I’m definitely intrigued enough to want to see more.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Al is coming around.....

Maybe LaHair looks good because his approach is so much better than many of the Cubs. We are so used to seeing bad at bats.

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

In a nutshell... this.

"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."

by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST

by fsuapollo on Sep 12, 2011 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's not just his approach.

He’s getting results.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Of course.

I didn’t see much of the game, but I did see LaHair’s lazyish flyball out to LF.

And even that AB was refreshing in that he had the right approach. Sure, he still made an out… but the approach suggests he’ll have better ABs, even when he’s not squaring the ball up and getting mistakes over the middle of the plate.

"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."

by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST

by fsuapollo on Sep 12, 2011 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right now ...

LaHair should be terrifying Tyler Colvin. Other than the ability to play center, LaHair can do pretty much everything Colvin can do, and he’s hit better in the past week than Colvin has all year.

The league could very well figure LaHair out at any time, so I’m still thinking reserve outfielder/backup first baseman is LaHair’s ceiling. But it will be fun to be proven wrong. ;)

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Colvin is at least a halfway decent outfielder.

LaHair looks… well, bad out there.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

did you not see him

catch the ball with his bare hand….isnt that worth something ??

by cozmotaylor123 on Sep 12, 2011 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

If the run into each other fast enough,

maybe athletic fusion will occur, and combine the best characteristics of both.

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Sep 12, 2011 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

"Athletic fusion" LOL

Instead, we’d probably get a really tall guy who can’t hit for power or play defense — can just run really fast.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Or a power hitting, 6'4" version of Sam Fuld

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Sep 12, 2011 10:07 AM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

no this is the Cubs...

stuff like that doesnt happen.

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Sep 12, 2011 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

If he hits well enough, it doesn't matter that much.

Plus, the Cubs could carry a fifth outfielder (Reed? Campana?) who can be the more defensive sub. The Cubs did this in 2007-08 with Ward.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't understand your insistence on a Ward/LaHair comp.

Ward had already been a regular major league outfielder for several seasons by the time the Cubs got him.

LaHair — well, maybe he can hit, but he’s not an outfielder by any measure.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

has LaHair

done anything to prove that he’s terrible…i havent watched the games, but i see no massive mistakes out there….

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Sep 12, 2011 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

He doesn't cover a lot of ground in the outfield.

That said, he played the corners at Citi Field — which has very spacious outfield dimensions — for two games and didn’t look terrible.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

We've already got

someone who does that who is getting $18M.

If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.

by tharr on Sep 12, 2011 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

I mention Ward ...

because it shows that a defensively challenged lefty bat who can play some corner outfield and first can fit on a team (as a bench player) if he hits well enough. BTW, the Ward comp is getting STRONGER because LaHair (like Ward) can take pitches and draw walks. LaHair saw an incredible amount of pitches last night.

Just because LaHair doesn’t have the MLB experience that Ward has doesn’t mean that LaHair can’t fill the Ward role. I have been with you for a while that we should wait and see what LaHair can do and not hand over a starting job to him. But I wanted to see what he could do for the sake of supplementing our bench — and you know what? He is hitting better than any Cub right now.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Here, maybe

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/sort/pitchesPerPlateAppearance/type/expanded

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Sep 12, 2011 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ok, he's sitting at 4.52 pitches per plate appearance.

If he can maintain something that high, he needs to be with the club somehow. I swear I think he took 40 pitches in his AB’s last night from the starter. Anybody know how many pitches he had vs the starter by chance?

by ubercubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

I thought someone said 46 in the game thread

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Sep 12, 2011 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

That was later in the game, not against the starter.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure if it was against Bautista.

But, late in the game (sixth, seventh inning, maybe?) the ESPN guys said he had seen 37 pitches.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think I remember hearing something like 40 pitches or so when the reliever came in.

Love to know if there is a site that tells you more detailed info for pitchers on who takes up most of their pitches.

by ubercubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

37 pitches sounds about right in my head.

Bautista only had 93 pitches. LaHair, if that 37 pitch is correct, took up 40% of Bautista’s pitch count by himself. That’s insane. I swear every time he was up to bat, he got into a 3-2 count and kept battling until he got something he could handle.

by ubercubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

And you know where that would be valuable?

As a pinch hitter off the bench, coming in against a reliever not used to throwing a ton of pitches.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Or, against a starter to get him out of the game earlier and getting to the bullpen earlier.

Thus weakening the bullpen the rest of the series from overuse. I know I’ve seen this before…. That’s right! It happens against the Cubs with their starter doesn’t go 4/5 innings!

by ubercubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

LaHair's performance could still be a fluke.

Other teams might figure him out. But there’s no reason he shouldn’t play every day the rest of the season.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

He may be a fluke...

but I just don’t like someone being written off as a career minor leaguer because the big club had him blocked. Seattle had Sexton, Cubs had Lee/Pena. He never really had any chance to play. He may very well just have one good end of the season, but if you look at his minors numbers, the man has always been consistent and performed all over down there.

by ubercubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure if I buy the "he was always blocked" business.

Sure, the Mariners had Richie Sexson. But they also had two outfield spots and a DH spot. Plus, LaHair didn’t exactly dazzle when he was with the Mariners in 2008. It’s pretty incredible that the Cubs didn’t call LaHair up last year after Lee was traded, but whatever.

The point is, he’s here now, he’s crushing the ball, and he could figure into the Cubs’ plans for 2012.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

What a waste of $3 million.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

BTW ...

giving LaHair a shot in the next two weeks could provide the Cubs a fourth outfielder whom they don’t have to pay $3 million.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

I also like that he seems to have a tactical approach

In the PH appearance against the Reds, he went after the first pitch against Chapman, which was probably the only fastball he was going to see in that AB. And pulled a 97-mph pitch into the LF corner for a double.

by ClarkFan on Sep 12, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

But where would that leave DeWitt?

If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.

by tharr on Sep 12, 2011 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

So, are you saying you'd rather have...

…a .150 hitting OF who can play decent defense over a guy who is a bit shaky in the OF, but, may hit .300+ with power AND who also shows patience at the plate?…The guy saw 40 pitches last night. If LaHair hits like this throughout the rest of the season, there’s no way in hell I’d re-sign Pena for next year. If they can’t get Pujols or Fielder (which they can’t) then LaHair should be the 1B of 2012. Castro and A_Ram (if still there) are just gonna have to learn to make better throws to 1B.

You know life is good when you hear "Die Hard 5" is in production. Yippee ki-yay, &%^##(&(#&%-ers !

by Easy Ed on Sep 12, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bit premature, Ed.

I’m optimistic about LaHair, but, then, I was optimistic about Quade based on September results last year. LaHair should not be handed the first base job next year. But a bench job? He certainly is playing himself into that conversation.

Also, I don’t know if you can say for sure that the Cubs can’t get Fielder/Pujols. They definitely have the money to overpay for either guy, but I don’t know if they SHOULD do that. I’d rather go after pitching than either of them.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think people are forgetting that there would be a serious, serious uproar

If the Cubs bowed out of the Fielder/Pujols sweepstakes by claiming “no worries, we got LaHair.”

Seeya Jimbo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Sep 12, 2011 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, there would be

and deservedly so.

Bryan LaHair ain’t Pujols or Fielder, needless to say.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 12, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

I just don't think the new GM is gonna wanna build this organization back up to contention ...

…by offering a 200 million dollar contract to some big name free agent. That would be beyond insane. At least I hope he doesn’t.
Agree on pitching…that’s what wins championships. There’s a couple BIG names out there that I’d think would be available in trades, but, again…I’m not sure the new GM is gonna be all that “spend happy” at the beginning. I like LaHair, tho. He’s been a nice bright spot to a pretty pathetic season. He looks like a REAL hitter up there. Could be a fluke, tho, I guess. Hope they keep him around in Spring training and find out instead of shipping him off somewhere.

You know life is good when you hear "Die Hard 5" is in production. Yippee ki-yay, &%^##(&(#&%-ers !

by Easy Ed on Sep 12, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

It would be beyond insane ...

if that’s all they do. The new GM would have to be creative. You and I agree that a Dunn-Soriano swap makes some sense. But we really have no idea what to expect.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's right, el...

moving certain pieces and replacing them with others, as long as it’s fairly equal, is fine with me (Dunn for Soriano)…I’d hate to see every freed up dollar go to Pujols or Fielder. The Cubs don’t win with just one of those guys. Pitching, pitching and more pitching. This new GM will be in for a true challenge. Hope he’s up for it.

You know life is good when you hear "Die Hard 5" is in production. Yippee ki-yay, &%^##(&(#&%-ers !

by Easy Ed on Sep 12, 2011 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

This.

And he should play every day the rest of the way.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

If a guy is a hitter then he will hit

LaHair may not be a fielder, but he IS a hitter.

If you think you've seen it all...just wait!

by CubFanSince1970 on Sep 12, 2011 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Colvin and LaHair had big games last night.

Will both start tonight?

Which one gets benched by Quade? Both?

I say LaHair……Not what I want….Just a prediction based on what i have seen of Quade’s managing.

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 8:37 AM CDT reply actions  

Who's pitching for Cincinnati tonight?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Here you go :)

Click me

"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run FOR Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray

by Archie on Sep 12, 2011 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I love that site btw

Its so useful! :P

"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run FOR Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray

by Archie on Sep 12, 2011 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

wow, that was cool

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Sep 12, 2011 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it's a good site

But kind of assholey. Which is why it’s so good.

by Arbusto on Sep 12, 2011 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

100 BCB points for the new word of the day...assholey.

Well done!

You know life is good when you hear "Die Hard 5" is in production. Yippee ki-yay, &%^##(&(#&%-ers !

by Easy Ed on Sep 12, 2011 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is pretty damn funny.

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Sep 12, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dontrelle Willis.

A lefthander. So it’s anyone’s guess.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes you are right.

I am sure we will get the vet lineup tonight.

Go Castro and Barney…..If barney gets to play. He had three hits last night but Quade has been plaing Pena over Barney and using Baker at 2B the last couple times which is irritating.

Maybe DJ will get to play again…doubt it.

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

TJ, jeez.

Pena is hitting the cover off the ball right now.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah. Except for that game winning, mamoth home run ...

he’s been bad off lefties.

Also, Barney — before last night — had been bad for weeks. Who the HELL cares is Pena plays instead of Barney right now?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Explain this TJ...

..you scream that Quade benches people after hot games (LaHair/Colvin last night you mentioned in a previous post) then scream for DJ and his 0-3 and an error to start tonight over Pena (3-5, 2 RBI’s). Which is it?

I agree with elgato…when you scream about EVERY Quade move you lose credibility when you point out his truly bad moves.

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

You must be looking forward to tonights all vets lineup...

there is no rhyme or reason to the Cub lineups…..

So it does not matter. A vote by the people in the stands would probably be a better bet.

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dude.

Knock it off. You know you’re wrong here. Monty didn’t say anything about wanting an all-vets lineup. Don’t resort to SG tactics. You are much better than that.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I understand.

That doesn’t mean you have to lose all sense of logic, though. We just have three weeks of the Quade era left.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Seriously.

I just reached the limit of my f-ing limit. Not playing LaHair tonight and playing Jeff FREAKING Baker? Is Quade just drunk?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

In TJ land...

Q screws everything up!

Wait.. that’s reality. Sorry TJ!

by ubercubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is hilarious!!!

I may have been insulted and I dont care!

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I really didn't mean it to be an insult.

I just don’t want to be this angry. And I am.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

It is a rough way to live!!!!!!

The lineup seems to have something REALLY dumb wrong with it EVERYDAY!!!!

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jeff Baker?!

Jeff FREAKING Baker?!

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

You think I enjoy being right about predicting stupid moves by the Cubs all the time?

I would MUCH rather be getting ready for the playoffs.

But the Cubs are beyond annoying!!!

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're right!

God help me! TJ is right!

Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I should be mad at this and am laughing!

Sometimes it sucks to be a Cub fan and finally realize what really is going on.

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

We agree -- again!

Nooooooooooo!

Blast, Quade — see what you’ve DONE?!

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not mad.

No point in getting worked up over the end of this miserable season.

Seeya Jimbo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Sep 12, 2011 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I haven't been mad about this team in months.

But we have an interesting guy who just joined the team who is hitting the cover off the ball, who’s drawing walks and who might be a part of the team next year.

And Mike Quade starts Jeff Fother Mucking Baker!

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Could it be

MOST baseball people would start Baker in such a situation? Apparenlty a lot of them would, if the last two-three managers are any indication.

Maybe it’s just SOP in baseball and not some grevious sin.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 12, 2011 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bruce. Come on.

Lou hardly used Baker. And when else have the Cubs had someone like LaHair who is tearing the cover off the ball and could be playing instead of Baker?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think all this hyperventilating

is much ado about nothing, eg.

Perhaps the Cubs know more about whether these guys can or cannot play more than fans do.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 12, 2011 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

So we shouldn't question Quade's decisions?

Under this rationale, BCB would be a ghost town.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, but

the extremes many here take it to is beyond comical.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 13, 2011 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

TJ.....as someone who engages in snark around here...

you’re really going out of your way to start shit where it doesn’t need to be started.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 12, 2011 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Huh? Good one...

…does swl know you hacked into his account?

You know life is good when you hear "Die Hard 5" is in production. Yippee ki-yay, &%^##(&(#&%-ers !

by Easy Ed on Sep 12, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Either respond to NBF with an actual point...

or make fun of his mom….trying to push him into the pissing match with monty is just a dead end.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 12, 2011 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I do not think making fun of his mom is needed...

I just see Monty needing help and NBF is just what the DR ordered!

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Have fun with the brick wall then.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 12, 2011 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

You missed it earlier

I disagreed with TJ earlier, and once you do that you become open to nonstop attacks form him

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

You are new here, I take it...

My problem here is only with loafing players, badly run teams, and people with rose colored glasses who cant see reality and make excuses for such things as people batting in the middle of an order with 400 AB with 29 RBI….

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not making excuses for Byrd

As I have over and over…we signed a 50 RBI guy who was having a bad year on a bad team. He missed a month (not an excuse, a fact). I believe the guy plays hard, and should have more than 29 RBIs. I dont see where i have rose colored glasses because I don’t join in the pile up on the guy.

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Even you said he should start

 2 or 3 times a week, no more than that…and then you get pissed when he starts

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I said no more than that, He should not start at all.

But I know its the Cubs and they cant handle that so I said 2….

So it will be more like 6

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

So is your issue with Byrd or Quade?

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

So rip Quade, not Byrd

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Everything is soooo pretty, so pink and I have lots of KoolAid too.

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Sep 12, 2011 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

More irritated than anything else...

LaHair is one of the very few reasons to watch this team.

But Quade does not want him to play….Lets see Marlon Byrd instead…

I think Quade is worried Brian will catch Byrd in RBI

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, LaHair can't play center.

But he could play right, left or first.

But, what the hell? Let’s see how Jeff Baker can light his farts on fire instead!

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Allegedly, someone was injured in that debacle.

Demp would have been more successful in his pranking.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

TWSS

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Sep 12, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

I guess I'd be upset if I thought Quade was returning.

Or if Hendry was still around.

Seeya Jimbo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Sep 12, 2011 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm upset because ...

watching Jeff Fart Lighting Baker is about as exciting as watching paint dry. And I’ve seen enough Soriano and Byrd hacking for about 10 lifetimes.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll probably just watch football instead.

I’m over this team.

Seeya Jimbo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Sep 12, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

We should have a poll.

Average pitches per plate appearance for each of:

Soriano (I think about 3)
Baker (I think 3.5)
Byrd (I believe this is a lock at 2)

by ubercubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ha ha!

I had forgotten all about that!

Every day is a beautiful day for baseball!!

by cowsarecool220 on Sep 12, 2011 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just so you know....

CarrieMuskat #Cubs lineup vs #Reds: Castro 6, Johnson 9, Ramy 5, Baker 3, Soriano 7, Byrd 8, Soto 2, Barney 4, Lopez 1

Vet lineup all the way!!!

by ubercubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL TJ, do you have Twitter??

Stordl01 @CarrieMuskat glad to see Quade is rewarding Lahair for his excellent play.

CarrieMuskat @Stordl01 Am guessing Q is trying to take advantage of Baker’s .321 average vs. LHP. #Cubs

by ubercubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, shut up, Carrie.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

So she's actually responding to people on Twitter now?

That’s a huge step forward for Muskat.

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Sep 12, 2011 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Responding dutifully with the company line.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Told ya.......lol

It is so easily predictable!!!!!!!

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fine. That's fine!

But quit taking everything to ridiculous extremes. Soriano and Byrd sitting makes sense because the Cubs have younger outfielders who deserve playing time. But bitching that Barney (whom we’ve seen all freaking year!) should be playing against lefties instead of Pena should be beneath you — as should be pining over Lou freaking Montanez. I mean, Lou freaking Montanez?!

I don’t mind your schtick, TJ. But pull your punches once in a while.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Watching Pena strike out 3 times vs a LHP tonight would seem pointless.

Would you rather not see DJ or Barney play. Especially after barney got 3 hits?

And my question last night was-if he is playing the rest of the callups, why not Montanez? Pena did not have to play. But he did and had a good game. But it was a legit question.

Also, Al is correct about Gaub……WHY was he not in there instead of Grabow?? The kid is going to be so rusty by the time he finally gets into a game. A 6 run lead should be enough of a cushion to bring him in. It might not be for Grabow.

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

I totally agree on Gaub.

So, yeah, Quade is an idiot much of the time. But questioning his every decision just makes you look like you can’t tell the good from the bad — that you reflexively have Quade.

1) Regarding Montanez, Quade is still managing to win games. And had he done what you suggested — played Montanez in left, LaHair at first and benched Pena — the Cubs would almost certainly have lost last night. That might have been worth it if the Cubs needed the time to evaluate Montanez, but they don’t.

2) My guess is Pena will sit tonight, because LaHair can play first and the Cubs have to be intrigued right now. But you were upset that Pena was playing instead of Darwin Barney (you only later mentioned DJL). And that’s just being anti-Quade to be anti-Quade.

As I said, pull your punches.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

*reflexively HATE Quade

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

I do not like his managing.....I see you have picked up on this!!!!!

I didnt like it last year either…..I dont care if they were winning some games. There were red flags everywhere.
And I said it then.

If he wasnt a Cubs crony he would never have gotten the
job.

Cant wait for the season to be over.
I really hope they hire a real GM and get rid of most of this coaching staff. Then it will start to be at least entertaining to be a Cub fan again.

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd be pretty stunned if they don't dump most of the coaching staff.

I think no matter what, Riggins is gone. And if/when Quade is canned, I highly doubt the next guy is gonna keep Listach around. He’ll want his own hand picked bench coach. Jaramillo should be gone as well, but I guess we’ll see about that.

Seeya Jimbo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Sep 12, 2011 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can't see any of the coaches coming back.

Rudy has been a monumental disappointment, and none of the other coaches has a Rothschild-esque rep.

The only guy I could MAYBE see back is Dernier.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

I doubt Dernier is back.

Rudy may be back only because he’s got another year left on his contract. But that’s it.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rudy should not be back under any circumstances.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I tend to agree with you.

But the contract might trump that, especially since the new GM is going to have to pay Quade AND a new manager next year.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can't imagine him being back.

A more analytical approach from our new GM — as espoused by Ricketts — implicitly means more numbers heavy. More numbers heavy means more of a focus on OBP.

Rudy is all about being aggressive. I can’t see a new GM who gives a damn about OBP retaining Rudy.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

True enough.

Sigh.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just keep him away from LaHair

You know life is good when you hear "Die Hard 5" is in production. Yippee ki-yay, &%^##(&(#&%-ers !

by Easy Ed on Sep 12, 2011 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I really don't see all the hate

for Rudy. If the team BA and OBP was terrible, them yes. But the real problem is the individual players hitting with men on base, particularly with men in scoring position.

Jaramillo can’t force them to be more patient. The insistence to look at more pitches in key at bats has to be insistence upon by the manager, not the hitting instructor. Watch tonight at all the first pitch swinging with men on base. We seldom see a first pitch fastball because other teams see exactly what we see. I blame the players, not the coach.

If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.

by tharr on Sep 12, 2011 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's because Rudy preaches aggressiveness.

And the team has gotten less patient — including guys who used to draw walks — since he arrived.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

There is a huge difference

between attacking the first good pitch and indiscriminately hacking at all pitches. I want my guys to be aggressive at the plate but i don’t want them guessing the first pitch they’ll see is going to be THAT good pitch.

Rudy hasn’t preached swinging at everything they see. That has been the CHOICE of players like Byrd. I wish they had some stats that show the players pitch count with and without men on base. That would seem to vary for many of our players. Watch tonight how we do with men on base. To me, that’s all on the players, not Rudy.

If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.

by tharr on Sep 12, 2011 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's on both.

And it’s on the Cubs generally for not emphasizing patience as an organization.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey, el...

…ain’t you got a wedding coming up? (if I remember correctly)

You know life is good when you hear "Die Hard 5" is in production. Yippee ki-yay, &%^##(&(#&%-ers !

by Easy Ed on Sep 12, 2011 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Saturday, Ed.

The fiance’s finally gonna make an honest woman outta me. ;)

(That’s a funny joke because I’m a dude)

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow...gotta big one planned?

Hawaii honeymoon? Seriously…lotsa luck to you and your better half.

You know life is good when you hear "Die Hard 5" is in production. Yippee ki-yay, &%^##(&(#&%-ers !

by Easy Ed on Sep 12, 2011 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually, we are going to Hawaii.

Wedding’s probably mid-sized (150 people). It’s in the fiance’s hometown.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hope you have a great time....

You know you are going to check in here at some point on the trip!!!!! lol

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

She might kill me if I did, TJ.

And thanks.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Congratulations, eg

Don’t let marriage dull your posting style. :)

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 13, 2011 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Never been there...on my bucket list tho...

…right after “attending Cubs World Series Celebration”. Hope your day is a great one.

You know life is good when you hear "Die Hard 5" is in production. Yippee ki-yay, &%^##(&(#&%-ers !

by Easy Ed on Sep 12, 2011 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks, Ed.

Hopefully, I’ll come back to a Soriano-Dunn trade. ;)

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

That would be great.

You know life is good when you hear "Die Hard 5" is in production. Yippee ki-yay, &%^##(&(#&%-ers !

by Easy Ed on Sep 12, 2011 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

We are in the clear minority on that opinion.

But I think it’s the most controversial thing you and I have ever agreed on.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Gotta run.

Later guys. And thanks for the kind words.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

that’s why I question the 4 year commitment to Fleita.

If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.

by tharr on Sep 12, 2011 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

do yourself a favor ...

don’t trash everything he does — like the things where your logic doesn’t stand up to any sort of scrutiny. You can’t dislike Quade without thinking he does everything including breathing and brushing his teeth wrong.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

With the absence of SenorGato

BCB is experiencing a vacuum of “ridiculous extremes”.

It has to be filled somehow.

"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."

by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST

by fsuapollo on Sep 12, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

It was like the Cubs waited til 9/12 to win.

When Smardge allowed the tie, I mentioned to my wife that the Cubs were just waiting til 9/12 to win so as to not cause the Mets to lose a game on 9/11.

by adam316 on Sep 12, 2011 8:44 AM CDT reply actions   2 recs

ESPN broadcasters were exruciatingly boring last night

There wasn’t really much of any play-by-play and they just talked about 9/11 and New York etc., which seems to have been by design I guess. My opinion they should have just done their normal routine.

by adam316 on Sep 12, 2011 8:46 AM CDT reply actions  

at least picture in picture

A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight

by Ivy Walls on Sep 12, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

I thought I was losing my mind

Becuase what I remembered I saw and heard did not match what happened on the field. I was confused…

by wenya on Sep 12, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

I had them on mute with Pat and Keith.

ESPN drives me bonkers. They kept showing the stupid announcers and the crowd instead of the game. Then their delay was crazy long…they were like 10 seconds behind the radio. And then the cameras are too good. I don’t want to see every pore on a guys face, especially when they show him picking his nose.

Football? Football? What's a football?-Ralphie Parker

by katie casey on Sep 12, 2011 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

...

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Sep 12, 2011 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

same

A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight

by Ivy Walls on Sep 12, 2011 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was so bored with NY and 9/11

That I turned off the sound and listened to Pat and Keith on my iPad. Then I got so bored I turned it off. Lon evening of bad baseball.

by Clark Addison on Sep 12, 2011 9:00 AM CDT reply actions  

That Campana/LaHair catch

was great!

Football? Football? What's a football?-Ralphie Parker

by katie casey on Sep 12, 2011 9:19 AM CDT reply actions  

Castro's new nickname

Once we get to the post-Quade management/nickname-czar, I think Castro needs a new nickname. “Star” is a little pretentious and predictable. And “Cassie” is just odd and people will always wonder how to say it (Ca-sey, Cass-ie)And frankly, both are a little too girly for me. Fine for a mare horse at the racetrack, but not a ball player.

So Castro comes up to the plate in the 10th inning and reacch for his sunflower seeds out of his back pocket. Seeds fall everywhere as he throws them in his mouth. And it hit me:

Seeds!

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza

by RiskyBusiness on Sep 12, 2011 9:40 AM CDT reply actions  

Seeds, I like that,

I remember last year it was gum….he always had a huge amount of gum in his mouth. I like gum and wished I knew what kind he chewed, (dont ask me why). I think he’d like Seeds too.

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Sep 12, 2011 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

You and Darwin Barney

Should have a gum chewing contest. Raise money for charity of course.

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza

by RiskyBusiness on Sep 12, 2011 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

lol....2 sticks is my limit, sugar-free, and minty. Wrigley brand is my personal favorite....longest lasting flavor IMO

Gum has been good to me….helped me quit smoking and I think it also prevents double-chins :)

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Sep 12, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

When I was a kid I was like

Violet Beauregard. Except that the second a gum lost it’s flavor I’d be popping a fresh piece in my mouth. I loved every kind of gum. I even chewed the gum from my brother’s baseball card packs. The dentist loved me.

Football? Football? What's a football?-Ralphie Parker

by katie casey on Sep 12, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

basball card gum was the best...emphasis on "was"

as an adult now I have to be careful….I have to chew “like a lady”, if I do at all in public. When I watch baseball with gum I lose myself, I must chew it like Barney does. I want to carry my gum in a fancy cigarette case, I never leave home without it :)

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Sep 12, 2011 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

You have me reminiscing how I used to chew

those watermelon, apple and grape Bub’s Daddy like a horse. Oh and then there was the Bubble Yum that was rumored to have the spider’s eggs. I chewed it anyway. You are probably to young to remember those. Now I’ve got so much dental work that I rarely think about chewing gum let alone worry about chewing like a lady. :)

Football? Football? What's a football?-Ralphie Parker

by katie casey on Sep 12, 2011 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

oh no I'm not...I loved those. I have strong teeth, I've been lucky. no more bubble-gum for me tho

it’s just not as good as it used to be. Or maybe I’m too old for bubble gum now, I’ve moved on to a more grown-up level of gum chewing :)

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on Sep 12, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sunflower

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Sep 12, 2011 1:21 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

Too Nice

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza

by RiskyBusiness on Sep 12, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

You are starting to remind me

of Goldilocks and the Three Bears.

On that note, Seeds must be “just right.”

Football? Football? What's a football?-Ralphie Parker

by katie casey on Sep 12, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

It is just right

It’s a nickname about personality, not just adidng letters to a last name. But as soon as it takes hold, some guy will start calling him “Seedsie” and then I’ll puke.

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza

by RiskyBusiness on Sep 12, 2011 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

New nickname...hmmm...how about "E6"?

Hopefully a nickname he’ll grow out of.

You know life is good when you hear "Die Hard 5" is in production. Yippee ki-yay, &%^##(&(#&%-ers !

by Easy Ed on Sep 12, 2011 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

There is always something to love about baseball, even now

A “meaningless”, game that goes to the wee hours kept me riveted. I’ve seen LaHair a few times at Iowa, but like the ESPN guys said, maybe there is something there in his swing. Defensively he’s a statue in LF, will we see him at 1B a few times this year? It is hard to take Pena out at this time.
And, agree on Gaub. No point in putting Grabow in over a kid you are supposedly rewarding by bringing to the majors. If you weren’t going to put in Marmol because of the score, no reason to not go with the younger player who will probably be in the organization next year. Grabow will not be a Cub next year.
With the very late end to the game last night, I’m interested to see what the line-up is tonight.

by Nibbles on Sep 12, 2011 9:47 AM CDT reply actions  

Announced Attendance was 33,502

But it did not look close to that. I thought that maybe with the Sunday night game and the pre-game 9/11 ceremony that there would be more people. But it looked sparse from the get go.

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza

by RiskyBusiness on Sep 12, 2011 10:03 AM CDT reply actions  

The Jets were also playing at home on Sunday night.

That probably had something to do with it.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

I thought about that too

2 sub .500 baseball teams vs. Sunday Night Football. And your city has been doing 9/11 memorial events all weekend.

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza

by RiskyBusiness on Sep 12, 2011 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

OK I am finally up

Got back at 2AM thanks to the special “express” train sitting in the station for an extra 25 minutes, but that was par for a slow, sloppy night.
Random notes

The 9/11 ceremony was moving and well done and not the some jingoistic or overdone parade I feared. One very interesting thing, at at least 3 separate points some groups of fans felt a need to try to start of chant of USA, USA but the rest of the crowd refused to join in. I think people are finally maturing or at least the folks at the game were ( now if only they had refused to do the wave later in the game).

It was a slow boring game of missed opportunities. Two bad teams fighting to see which was worse and which could strand more runners, luckily the Mets won both of those. I truly wanted to leave after the Cubs had runners on 2nd & 3rd with no outs and could not score ( and they had the lead at the time but I was just disgusted). I ended up with 4 free box seats from a friend and seriously it was hard to give them away. I tried every Cub fan & Met fan I knew ( only 2 days notice though) , they all turned me down. Finally found some nice folks on Cubs meet up group and they brought a Mets fan friend. They were younger and less cynical then me.

Yes I was one of seriously no more then 300 people who stayed to the end. I honestly not sure I have been to a game that empty that I can remember. The high point was 3 enthusiastic Cub fans in LF who started a chant of “Lets Go Geo” and about 10 of us joined in and it could be heard throughout the park.

Low point was spotting more Theriot shirts than anything else.

Now I must get coffee.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 12, 2011 10:15 AM CDT reply actions  

I think that they showed the 3 lunatics in left field

If there were 300 fans left at the end, they probably showed 80% of them on ESPN.

"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk

by vonde6 on Sep 12, 2011 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Darn anyone spot me?

I almost wore my 1908 Champions T shirt, but decided to wear my Maddux 300 wins shirt and my Daytona Cubs cap ( A gift from the owner who years ago sat in Al’s section for a game). There were a lot fewer Cub fans there at the start than usual but of course more of us stayed till the end. I suspect when we stood up and cheered when the Cubs scored in the 11th we were pretty visible.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 12, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think I heard you

Were you the one yelling – LETS GO ISLANDERS!!!

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza

by RiskyBusiness on Sep 12, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

They showed one long shot

Of a fan in Cubs gear surrounded by empty seats in every direction.

Was that you?

"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk

by vonde6 on Sep 12, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

This was my first trip to Citi Field and I stayed till the end too,

Despite having a 9 am flight this morning. Somewhat regretting it now, but I actually enjoyed the game. Yes, 2 bad teams playing some bad baseball at times, but at least it was a close, entertaining game. I was able to move to the first row behind the Cubs dugout for the extra innings, and I had never been that close to the action at a MLB game before. We got Dempster to throw a ball to one of my friends to take home to his son. Pretty cool.

by CrimsonCub on Sep 12, 2011 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Mets should have told Bud and Joe to "fornicate themselves"

Then MLB could have gotten in line behind the Madoff trustee to get their money.

by ClarkFan on Sep 12, 2011 10:19 AM CDT reply actions  

Any time we beat the Mets

it is good baseball for me Al. I would have stayed up all night to to watch us beat the Mets. At the end with a sparse crowd there were still loyal Cub fans celebrating. Ya !

by If we only had Hubbs on Sep 12, 2011 12:24 PM CDT reply actions  

I was listening on the radio to Pat & Zonk

after the football game ended. (I was watching the game on my computer on mute while watching the football game on my TV with the sound on.)

I fell asleep right after the Cubs scored in the 11th. The last think I remember is Pat saying he wished they were playing 2. Pretty much tells you the game went on forever if Pat was delirious.

You know what I miss most in the winter? Going to sleep listening to a baseball game.

Every day is a beautiful day for baseball!!

by cowsarecool220 on Sep 12, 2011 1:26 PM CDT reply actions  

So this is why Colvin still doesn't play?

feet firmly nailed to the floor of the Tyler Colvin bandwagon...

by wrigleyrocker12 on Sep 12, 2011 2:38 PM CDT reply actions  

Doesn't Reed Johnson have more RBIs than Byrd?

Pretty bad when your starting CF (who hits in the middle of the lineup) is out RBI’d by the right-handed part of a platoon.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cubs outfield RBI race!

Byrd = 29
Johnson = 27
Colvin = 20

And don’t forget

DeWitt = 24

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, that makes me a little ill.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

He has 30 now.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Better team, probably.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Better spot in the order, too.

For RBIs, anyway.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Plus, he's been playing almost every day...

…even against LHPs.

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Sep 12, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think in the Sunday Trib...

…there was a quote from Kosuke saying he’s actually glad he got a fresh start away from the Cubs.

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Sep 12, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Link?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here ya go.

Courtesy of your favorite and mine, Paul Sullivan.

BAM

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Sep 12, 2011 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here's something about Fukudome since he got to Cleveland.

He’s not walking much any more. His OBA — .374 with the Cubs this year — is just .314 with the Tribe, with essentially the same BA (.273 with Cubs, .269 with Cle).

Maybe he’s changed his approach, or maybe they’ve asked him to do something different. But he is no longer the OBP machine he was here.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Interesting.

I did notice the Indians’ manager (is it Manny Acta?) was batting Kosuke sixth when he first got there.

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Sep 12, 2011 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately, the Cubs have about seven No. 6 hitters.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Those RBI in this many plate appearances

Byrd 395 AB’s plus 21 walks
Colvin 196 AB’s plus 14 walks
Johnson 223 AB’s plus 4 walks
Dewitt 207 AB’s plus 11 walks

Heck even Soriano has 429 AB’s with 23 walks….

So Byrd has batted only 36 more times this year than Soriano, in a better RBI slot in the order… And has 28 RBI……..WOW

Why the excuses.??

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

29.

Be fair to the man.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2011 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

When did Reed and Colvin...

…..get hit in the face by a fast ball????

Not trying to say Byrd is awesome, but give the guy a break.

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 3:38 PM CDT reply actions  

Well, Monty. I see you enjoy opening cans of worms.

Look at Byrd’s numbers. He was terrible in RBI situations BEFORE he got plunked in Boston. And, his best month since returning was July. He was still bad in RBI situations, but his numbers were better than they have been in August in September.

There’s no reason to think Byrd’s RBI totals are SO low because he got hit in the face. If he were, say, in the 40s, you could say that the injury and missed time contributed. But his RBI total would have to be more than 40 percent higher to even be in the 40s.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

The entire team sucks...

..in RBI/men on base siuations. But everyone jumps on this guy for some reason.

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 3:43 PM CDT reply actions  

Because he's basically the worst performer!

He also has little to no power AND he never walks. Soriano, for all his flaws, still drives in runs and hits home runs. Pena draws walks and has been better in RBI situations.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

We knew this when we signed him

His “career year” was like 20HR 79 RBI in TEXAS.

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

To reference Dennis Green

He is who we thought he was. A decent OF..maybe a 4th guy on a good/great team. But we get pissed when he is not suddenly a 35 HR 100 RBI guy

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

What crap.

We get pissed when he is not suddenly a 12 HR, 50 RBI guy.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

But he's never been this bad with RISP.

Byrd had a .539 OPS with RISP.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

*has

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

And Byrd missed a month of the season

That is why the beaning was brought up.

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 3:45 PM CDT reply actions  

It's still inexcusable for a major league player who missed one month ...

to have 29 RBIs in more than 400 plate appearances.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Correct....Colvin was in the minors for a long time and has had uneven playing time yet might catch him in RBI.....

Plus Colvin bats lower in the order behind such OBP heroes like Sorino and Soto (and Byrd)

If your RBI are close to the guy hitting .150 its sad.

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Essentially, Marlon Byrd is a first pitch hacker.

He gets slap singles when no one is on base because he swings at fastballs pitchers throw because they don’t want to risk walking somebody to set up a big inning. But when guys are on base, pitchers are more selective.

Soriano does the same thing, but Soriano will hit one out instead of slap a single to right center.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Again, we knew this when we signed him

He has not changed since we got him. You put a hitter like that in this Cubs lineup, you get a 50 RBI guy. Yes, I am disgusted by his low RBI total, but not suprised.

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's not a 50 RBI guy, Monty.

He’s a 29 RBI guy! That’s what’s unacceptable and surprising.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

If he does not miss a month

and play every day down the strech…40-50 RBIs would be what is was referring to.

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Monty, seriously.

He has 29 RBIs. He missed one month, but played all more than four. Being generous, he’s averaging 7 RBIs a month.

If he’d had 7 in the time he missed in May/June, he’d have 36. That’s a few shy of 50.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not Kool Aid

Just tired of people who rip EVERYTHING about this team in a down year. Everyone on this site is disappointed, but ripping everything about the team gets old real quick.

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

That doesn't justify the rationalizations you're using for Byrd.

You yourself said that Byrd is a 12 HR, 50 RBI guy — and that’s what we paid for. Even if he missed a month, his numbers shouldn’t be 7 HRs, and 29 RBI.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

You should do a positive fanpost pointing out everything that has gone right for the Cubs this year.

Tell us all about the great things the Cubs are accomplishing…

It should not take long.

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

He has 200 more abs than a guy hitting ,150.....with 9 more RBI despite hitting with people on all the time.

He has had Castro, Barney, ARam and Pena batting in front of him most of the year.

29 RBI is not good.

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hell ya!!!

Now lets blame Byrd for where his idiot manager batted him. That is Byrds fault too!!

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Its Byrds fault he does not produce.

Its quades fault for leaving him there.

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

5th???

You pile on the guy for not driving in runs…then say he should hit 5th, an RBI spot? WTH TJ ?

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

When did I say that?

I said he should bat 7th or 8th since he cant hit with RISP.

But since he bats higher he has had ample chances to drive in runs…But didnt….

You may wish to reread before excuse making.

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

See above TJ

You might want to read the BS coming out of your mouth before you whining about everything

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why don't you respond to me?

Notably, to this:

You yourself said that Byrd is a 12 HR, 50 RBI guy — and that’s what we paid for. Even if he missed a month, his numbers shouldn’t be 7 HRs, and 29 RBI.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

You expect 12 and 50

and lets say he would end up 10 and 38 without the injury. Is that really the reason this team is this bad?

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Who said he's the reason the Cubs are bad?

We’re just saying he’s been woefully bad in RBI situations this year.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nobody is denying that

But to read posts about Byrd you would think he is a Nazi baby killer instead of a guy having a disappointing season.

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

(rolls eyes)

We were responding to YOU saying to give the guy a break because he was hit in the face — which was crap, Monty.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

You can t deny

the hit in the face did not help his season. Not saying it is the 100% reason, he was struggling before the beaning, I agree. But to deny it did not contribute is wrong too.

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

No one's denying it.

But you’re completely letting him off the hook.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not letting him off the hook

but not forgetting it happened either. You can do both, it does not have to be one or the other

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Monty.

Seriously, you overreacted here, you dug in — and by doing so, you overly generalized about those of us who are critical about Byrd and let him off the hook with incredibly fuzzy math.

You said that we were implying that Byrd is a “Nazy baby killer” and the reason the Cubs are bad. And you think we’re overreacting?

Check yourself before you wreck yourself, dude.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Regardless...

Byrd doesn’t need to start another game in 2012.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 12, 2011 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes

We need a RHP bat to play CF on some days. If we plan to either keep or trade him, we need to play him down the stretch too. Not saying he needs to play everyday, but he should not be buried either.

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why do we need a RH bat to play CF for ANY game the rest of the season?

Why?

None of the remaining games matter at all for this team in relation to the W/L record. The only thing left for this team is to see what the unknowns can do against real ML pitching. There is not a single valid reason you can provide to prove otherwise.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 12, 2011 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

Quade’s essentially having Old Timers Day 10 years ahead of schedule because of some sort of weird notion about veterans having earned it.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry...Byrd should NOT be getting...

…more than 10 ABs a week from here on out. Then he should be shipped to the first team who makes an offer, or who we can screw…errr…I mean who we can persuade to take him in the off season. His days of first pitch hacking should be mercifully coming to an end for the Cubs.

You know life is good when you hear "Die Hard 5" is in production. Yippee ki-yay, &%^##(&(#&%-ers !

by Easy Ed on Sep 12, 2011 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow

Kool Aid city….

Get that fanshot done yet?

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why is everyone who dares to stick up for the Cubs

A “kool aid” drinker or a “sheep”. How dare anyone disagree with mighty TJ11

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Oh, as opposed to the generalization you just used ...

saying everybody thought Byrd is a “Nazy baby killer”?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Byrd is one of the few guys..

… who actually looks like he is giving an effort on this team. To have this crappy season laid on his feet for his bad season is crappy to do. Did he contribute to it? Yes, but almost everyday on here someone craps on the guy.

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

OFMG....
To have this crappy season laid on his feet for his bad season is crappy to do.

Literally no one is saying anything remotely close to this.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 12, 2011 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

He is just one of many problems.

But he is a big one. And Monty is making excuses for him, That is what we are talking about.

and for that we are nazi baby killers…..

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I said you would think

Byrd was a nazi baby killer, did not call people here that

Typical selective reading and response from you I see

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

So we're not Nazi baby killers ...

but we all think Byrd is because we think he sucks with RISP? Got it.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

One posting...

Byrd 395 AB’s plus 21 walks
Colvin 196 AB’s plus 14 walks
Johnson 223 AB’s plus 4 walks
Dewitt 207 AB’s plus 11 walks

Heck even Soriano has 429 AB’s with 23 walks….

So Byrd has batted only 36 more times this year than Soriano, in a better RBI slot in the order… And has 28 RBI……..WOW

Why the excuses.??

There are plenty more on here, saying the same type of things

F*ck those f*ckin' fans who come out here and say they're Cub fans that are supposed to be behind you, rippin' every f*ckin' thing you do.

by montycubsfan on Sep 12, 2011 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dude.

Those are his stats! Is there a code in there that I’m not aware of that says “Byrd is a Nazi baby killer”?

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

ew

We were just talking about food poisoning.

Football? Football? What's a football?-Ralphie Parker

by katie casey on Sep 12, 2011 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sticking up for any Cub player is OK...

ignoring the points and facts others are providing you about a Cub player isn’t.

Marlon Bryd isn’t very good this year, and he’s ONE of the problems with this team.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 12, 2011 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, man.

SWL is a voice of reason today. We are in trouble, folks.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Read my 2 statements together...

I answered myself and continued……

Should not hit 3rd OR 5th……

Nor should he start anymore this year.

by TJ11 on Sep 12, 2011 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Y'know, I bet Marlon Byrd himself would agree with you on this.

But I’m still with Monty on this one. Marlon Byrd has been pretty much exactly the player he appeared to be when the Cubs signed him — a league average center fielder (which is still a fairly valuable commodity). He outperformed that expectation a bit last year and now he’s regressed a bit. And, yes, he’s having a perfectly awful season with RISP, but those stats tend to fluctuate for every player from season to season. It’s not like he’s trying to fail when there’s runners in scoring position. In fact, there aren’t too many players in baseball who try harder than Marlon Byrd. He’s just, y’know, having a rough year.

Baseball is pitching, offensive production, baserunning and defense.

by daver on Sep 12, 2011 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

If I didn't think his approach was part of the problem, I'd agree with you.

But Byrd has the worst plate discipline on a team that is filled with hackers. Sure, SOME of this is must be bad luck. But not enough to justify his awful numbers and his failure to adapt.

Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

by elgato on Sep 12, 2011 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yup...I agree...they ain't got no intelajunce at all...5th graid grajuits is all.

You know life is good when you hear "Die Hard 5" is in production. Yippee ki-yay, &%^##(&(#&%-ers !

by Easy Ed on Sep 12, 2011 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

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