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Cubs Lose Soggy Mess To Astros As Quade Ties Ejection Record

Manager Mike Quade of the Chicago Cubs argues with umpires Marty Foster and Jeff Nelson after being ejected by Foster during the eighth inning against the Houston Astros at Wrigley Field in Chicago, Illinois. (Photo by Brian Kersey/Getty Images)

Someone needs to explain to MLB honchos the concept of a "rain delay" or "rainout".

In 2011, games have been played, not just in Chicago but in many cities, through conditions that would five or ten years ago have at the very least resulted in delays, if not postponements.

Yes, we know. There's a lot of money at stake in postponing games (and if this one had been rained out it wouldn't have been made up, likely costing the Cubs over $1 million). But at some point, playing in moderate to heavy rain with an extremely wet field is going to get someone seriously injured. What happens when a star player suffers a season-ending -- or worse, career-ending -- injury under conditions like Sunday afternoon's at Wrigley Field?

It hasn't happened yet. But it will. And things never seem to change in baseball until there's a disaster. So we'll wait, and have games played in worse and worse weather, until such an event happens.

The Cubs wound up losing this wet match to the Astros 3-2, and truth be told, through raindrops from basically the first pitch, there was quite a bit of entertainment value in Sunday's game.

Star-divide

First of all, there's no question that the call made on Carlos Pena's ball that hit the top of the basket -- the yellow rubber hosing that denotes the home run line -- was correct. The ball did not leave the park; it only missed by a couple of inches. This was confirmed not only by replays but by someone I know who sits right there and told me that as we were leaving when the rain delay was called (no, I wasn't about to sit through that). About two inches higher and the Cubs would have had a 4-3 win (presuming Carlos Marmol would have held the Astros scoreless in the ninth, not necessarily a no-brainer, at least this year).

The issue Mike Quade brought up -- and was eventually tossed for, tying the team manager ejection record with his seventh -- was that Starlin Castro should have been allowed to score the tying run. Castro, with good speed, would likely have scored easily as the ball bounced far away from the Houston outfielders. Quade had a point. But after video review of the play, crew chief Jeff Nelson placed Castro on third and Pena on second, and there they stayed when J.B. Shuck, who had just come into the game in right field in a double switch, made a nice running catch on a Marlon Byrd fly ball that was tailing away from him. If he misses that ball, both runners score and we're talking about a Cubs win this evening instead of a loss.

After the rain delay, Astros closer Mark Melancon came back -- he had recorded the out on Byrd in the eighth -- and struck out the side in the ninth to finish it.

Before that, we were amused when Tony Campana hit a ground ball to Carlos Lee at first base and just stopped running, forcing Lee to chase after him and tag him out. The contrast between Lee, who's listed at 6-2, 265, and Campana, who's... smaller... was funny. It would have been funnier if Campana had started backpedaling, but maybe ballplayers' brains don't work that way when they're soggy.

The loss means that the Cubs will not have a winning season at home; they're 37-41 with three games remaining. The Brewers won their game on Sunday, reducing their magic number to four; if the Phillies beat the Cardinals Sunday night that could be reduced further to three. In any case, it is quite possible that Milwaukee could clinch the NL Central title at Wrigley this week, something I personally hope the Cubs can prevent them from doing. The Cubs did beat the Brewers three of four at Wrigley in June. The Phillies had a very low-key reaction to their division clinching Saturday night; knowing the antics that the Brewers have pulled in the past, I would expect theirs to be... somewhat more "outgoing", which isn't necessarily a good thing.

Back to the issue of playing through this sort of weather. MLB puts the umpires, not the clubs, in charge of the final series of the season between two teams, so this one isn't on Cubs management. It appears to me that there's been some sort of edict issued to play every single game through nine innings; this has become much more common since Game 5 of the 2008 World Series, during which, you may recall, Bud Selig made the Phillies and Rays play through horrific weather conditions until the Rays tied the game and he could order it suspended.

In this case, there was far less at stake. MLB has an "official game" rule, games played through five innings, or 4-1/2 if the home team is ahead. Once this game got through eight innings, with rain falling and nothing riding on the outcome, what was the point of coming back to play one more inning? This is the second time this month the Cubs have been forced to do this; the last time, on September 3 vs. the Pirates, resuming the game in a driving rain cost the Cubs the game when Derrek Lee hit a grand slam. That isn't even the point, though -- the point is doing something that makes some common sense, in other words, calling an official game before nine innings if conditions are too bad to play in.

Which they were today. If MLB wants everyone to play nine innings regardless, just say so. In some cases, it's not worth it.

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Dempster's first inning woes are concerning this year...

maybe he was still sore from his last outing were he pitched 400 pitches

by bazfan1234 on Sep 18, 2011 5:54 PM CDT reply actions  

Maybe.

I’m surprised any hitter had the patience to take walks in all that rain.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 18, 2011 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know our rotation is in shambles

but I am not sure Dempster is worth the 14 million dollar player option (if he picks it up) for next year. I see Dempster as a really good #4 or average #3 starter.

by bazfan1234 on Sep 18, 2011 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's not worth the option.

Hence why he’ll pick it up.

Seeya Jimbo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Sep 18, 2011 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dempster has thrown 190.2 innings this year.

Quade seems hell-bent to get him to 200 innings. That seems doable without too much of a stretch.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 18, 2011 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Quade and his stupid milestones for the vets...

come on, it’s not like 200 innings is going to win you the Cy Young award.

by bazfan1234 on Sep 18, 2011 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great, Quade doesn't mind screwing up a pitcher for 2012 just to reach a stupid mark in 2011

After looking better for a stretch, Dempster has struggles in his last several starts. It may be time to shut him down for his own sake.

by ClarkFan on Sep 18, 2011 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Struggles? Huh?

He allowed three runs in seven innings today. In his last start, he allowed two runs in seven.

He has had quality starts in 10 of his last 11 outings.

If that’s considered “struggling,” more pitchers should do it.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 18, 2011 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, struggled

Looking at his game log, his top-notch run ended with the Marlins game on July 15. Since then, he has been pretty “meh” with an ERA over 4.50 and WHIP over 1.50. And 4 of those “quality” starts have been in the “barely” category, with 3 runs in 6 innings. For the 2-1/2 months before, he had been really good, getting his ERA down from 9.58 (!) to 4.68. But he has gotten stuck since then. Maybe too many miles early in the year….

by ClarkFan on Sep 18, 2011 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, not at all

He’s been pitching well. He hasn’t been getting help from his offense.

Christ, if you want to bitch about Quade, go ahead, but this doesn’t help your case.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 18, 2011 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dempster needs 200 innings,

just like the Cubs need to bring back Sandberg, Grace, Dawson, and Dunston in their current condition to play the rest of the year.

He’ll pick up his option so give him a rest and let him reboot for a hopefully better season next year.

by ChicagoBlues1983 on Sep 19, 2011 2:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not Bruce is right; it was a quality start.

On the other hand, people question whether he’s going downhill and whether Dempstyer’s salary is adequate for his numbers. He’s probably overpaid (not by much) so the Cubs, who need starting pitchers anyway, will likely try to resign him. Whether they will pick up Dempster’s option is another matter.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 19, 2011 7:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Keep this in mind.

Dempster had a horrific April this year. Since May 1, in 26 starts (in which the Cubs are 15-11), he has posted a 3.66 ERA and 1.33 WHIP, while allowing just 12 home runs.

That’s essentially the same as he did in 2009 and 2010. I don’t see any reason he couldn’t put up a full season like that in 2012.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 19, 2011 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

"Quality starts"

Putting your team down three runs in the first is not quality. The “Foundation” is overrated but fails to get the grief Soriano and Ramirez get. He consistently puts his team behind, then treads water.

The last meaningful game he pitched was G1 of the 2008 NLDS and he spit the bit. He pulls Z like crap with Quade and everyone shrugs. He refuses a trade to a contender but is available for a quote when Uhrlacher’s mother dies. (why ask him?)

Culture-wise, Dempster is a cancer as much as anyone else. Z may be an immature jerk, but he wanted to win. Dempster is a “class act” who doesn’t care about winning.

"Very definitely..." R. Santo
"Play the game..." K. Moreland

by Dan Serafini on Sep 19, 2011 9:58 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

The last meaningful game he pitched was G1 of the 2008 NLDS

Like this is his fault.

He refuses a trade to a contender but is available for a quote when Uhrlacher’s mother dies.

These two things are completely unrelated.

Dempster is a "class act" who doesn’t care about winning.

You have offered absolutely no proof of this claim.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 19, 2011 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

"It would be easy to just say, ‘Oh, I’ll go somewhere else and win.’ But the hard thing to do, the more admirable thing to do, is to try and turn it around here and put a winning team on the field." – Ryan Dempster July 2011

I would argue that this shows him being more interested in being admired than winning. Fact is, he could have been traded, which would return players for him (thus helping the 2012 Cubs), then return to the Cubs in 2012 and “try and turn it around here and put a winning team on the field.”

My point about 2008 is that he hasn’t won when it mattered. It might matter in April, as the season has just begun. Just like A-Ram, he had a slow April, then his stats improve. The Dempster defenders don’t make the same argument on Ramirez’ behalf, do they?

As for proof of his being a “class act,” I admit I have no proof beyond his ubiquitous Foundation. I guess I blame whoever wants his opinion on Uhrlacher, but it seemed silly for him to offer his sympathies (any more than a random Bull, Blackhawk, etc.)

The first inning troubles he has are completely underplayed. Yesterday, he gave up 3 before his team got its first at bat, and even if it is one run, he consistently puts his team in an uphill fight from the first inning. If Earl Weaver was right when he said “Momentum is tomorrow’s starting pitcher,” then the Cubs lose momentum most times he starts, quality start or not. Dempster may not be the only culprit, but he is the biggest.

"Very definitely..." R. Santo
"Play the game..." K. Moreland

by Dan Serafini on Sep 19, 2011 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow, is this reaching
“It would be easy to just say, ‘Oh, I’ll go somewhere else and win.’ But the hard thing to do, the more admirable thing to do, is to try and turn it around here and put a winning team on the field.” – Ryan Dempster July 2011

I would argue that this shows him being more interested in being admired than winning. Fact is, he could have been traded, which would return players for him (thus helping the 2012 Cubs), then return to the Cubs in 2012 and "try and turn it around here and put a winning team on the field."

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 19, 2011 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep. Reaching.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 19, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ordinarily I'd agree with that sentiment

But there aren’t any merits to argue. You are reaching so far to make Dempster sound bad and your conclusion is such a stretch that I worry about your hamstrings.

He does not pull “Z-like crap” with Quade. There was one incident. Not an annual, semi-annual, quarterly, etc. event. Cite ONE occasion where Dempster showed up a teammate.

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 19, 2011 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I never said it was an airtight theory, but...

Tell me how giving up first inning runs consistently adds to a winning atmosphere and the play of Aramis Ramirez does not. Playing from behind is very tough to do consistently. (Can we all agree on that?) OK, we’ll say the offense hasn’t helped him, but how about helping the offense by throwing up a zero in the first?!

Again, I bet most want Dempster back but not Ramirez. You may say, the team needs starting pitchers; well, they would need a 3B too.

I get frustrated when players having subpar seasons (especially in relation to their salary) are pilloried unless they are accessible to the press, do very public charity work, or have otherwise ‘colorful’ antics.

If you are going to clean house of everyone that puts up with losing, I would say Dempster is right there with Ramirez, Soriano and the others. While we are searching for empirical data, let’s see proof of how much Dempster cares about winning.

"Very definitely..." R. Santo
"Play the game..." K. Moreland

by Dan Serafini on Sep 19, 2011 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Puts up with losing"

And you know this how? Because they don’t want to be traded?

This sounds like a “heads I win, tails you lose” argument.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 19, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not sure I follow the "heads I win," etc.

What is the defense of Dempster and his first inning problems? If you believe that Ramirez should go, why shouldn’t Dempster?

"Very definitely..." R. Santo
"Play the game..." K. Moreland

by Dan Serafini on Sep 19, 2011 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

The two situations are not even remotely comparable.

Further, despite the occasional first-inning problems, Dempster has had a decent year (since May 1).

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by Al Yellon on Sep 19, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ramirez hasn't had a decent year?

Please tell me the difference if they aren’t comparable. Dempster’s WAR 1.2; Ramirez WAR 3.7;

Is it hustle? Dempster hustles I suppose(not sure he has a chance to show hustle, unless it is when he lays down a bunt)

Are Dempster’s first inning problems occasional? 43.75% of his 32 starts he gave up runs:

4/17 – 4 R
4/28 – 7 R
5/13 – 1 R
5/18 – 1 R
5/29 – 2 R
6/3 – 3 R
7/20 – 2 R
7/26 – 3 R (after given 2-0 lead)
8/11 – 1 R
8/16 – 1 R (after given 2-0 lead)
8/27 – 3 R
9/7 – 1 R
9/13 – 1 R
9/18 – 3 R

Not all losses, but odd to call it a ‘quality’ start if you immediately put your team behind. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

"Very definitely..." R. Santo
"Play the game..." K. Moreland

by Dan Serafini on Sep 19, 2011 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

it doesnt change the quality start fact.

if a quality start is 3 runs six innings, and he gave up 3 runs in the first and none after and pitched for six innings he then pitched a….wait for it….quality start.

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Sep 19, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sure, he qualified for the stat called "quality start."

My opinion is that Ryan Dempster is the Cy Young of quality starts.

"Very definitely..." R. Santo
"Play the game..." K. Moreland

by Dan Serafini on Sep 19, 2011 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Not all losses"

Like you said, you’re not entitled to your own facts.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 19, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cubs are 5-9 in those 14 games (fact)

I would call 43.75% of starts giving up first inning runs (a fact) not an occasional problem, but a consistent problem (an opinion).

"Very definitely..." R. Santo
"Play the game..." K. Moreland

by Dan Serafini on Sep 19, 2011 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

5-9 is a .357 winning percentage

I do want to hear the argument that Dempster should be retained but not Ramirez.

"Very definitely..." R. Santo
"Play the game..." K. Moreland

by Dan Serafini on Sep 19, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

So does he have to pitch a shutout every game?

I really don’t understand your point, other than you have a hard-on for Dempster.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 20, 2011 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

agreed

I would rather keep Ramirez than to keep Dempster.

We'll win... Someday!

by karlitodj79 on Sep 19, 2011 12:59 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

hows Aram's curveball?

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Sep 19, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

The whole teams first inning woes are concerning.

They have given up more runs in the first than any other inning. At what point do you look into pregame preparation?

by jpeters407 on Sep 18, 2011 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

I just hope the Cubs put a final push on

against the Brewers so they can’t clinch at Wrigley. I would love a sweep.

Pena missed it by an inch. Castro should have been sprinting home.

We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.

by mrcubsfan on Sep 18, 2011 6:02 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

I would rather...

…see the Brewers clinch at Wrigley than to see the Cardinals make the playoffs at any time or place.

by 4theillini on Sep 19, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

How about none of the above?

Let the Brewers clinch on Friday.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 19, 2011 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

You know it won't matter
What happens when a star player suffers a season-ending — or worse, career-ending — injury under conditions like Sunday afternoon’s at Wrigley Field? It hasn’t happened yet. But it will. And things never seem to change in baseball until there’s a disaster.

You remember the 2003 Mother’s Day Monstrosity better than I do. You know what happened to Eli Marrero in that game. He was never the same after that. Yet nothing changed.

by Josh Timmers on Sep 18, 2011 6:03 PM CDT reply actions  

True.

That was the game we called the “Typhoon Game”. It was played in conditions similar to the one against the Giants this past May.

Marrero was a good player, but not a star, and the game was a regular-season game in May.

What happens when a superstar gets hurt that way, maybe in a postseason game? Even Bud Selig might notice.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 18, 2011 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

The only difference between the game in 2003 and the one against the Giants this year...

Was that the wind direction was blowing out in 2003, and the wind direction was blowing in this year.

Jack Brickhouse: "Hey! Hey!" Harry Caray: "Holy Cow!"
Vince Lloyd: "The Chicago Cubs are on the Air!" Len Kasper: "Oh Baby!!!!"
Ron Santo: "YES!" "All Right! Let's do it!" "Ohhh Nooooo!" "Gee Whiz! Come on!" AND... "This Is The Year!"

by #1 iowan cubs fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Campana stops running, Lee touches first, Campana is out...

Why chase him? Or what am I missing?

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Sep 18, 2011 6:07 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Nothing.

"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo

by chilango2 on Sep 18, 2011 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hola chilango!

If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.

by eths on Sep 19, 2011 6:31 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

On Pena non-home run replay

Castro wasn’t to 3rd when the ball was at the cutoff man – 3rd base ump was signaling home run but came into picture at end – not sure how long he had been signaling and if Castro has seen that and slowed down (which is what Q had been arguing I guess) – not sure if he would have scored

by doofus cubs guy on Sep 18, 2011 6:08 PM CDT reply actions  

36,250 according to cubs.com

28,215 for next 3 games gets it to 3 million

by doofus cubs guy on Sep 18, 2011 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

There were about 17,000 in the house.

Actually, that’s a surprisingly large number given the weather and the fact that the Bears were playing.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 18, 2011 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

What the Bears did today wouldn't actually be classified as "playing".

You know life is good when you hear "Die Hard 5" is in production. Yippee ki-yay, &%^##(&(#&%-ers !

by Easy Ed on Sep 18, 2011 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, true.

But people didn’t know that when the game started.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 18, 2011 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

There was about 100 in the house when play resumed after the rain delay.

I counted them on my TV.

Jack Brickhouse: "Hey! Hey!" Harry Caray: "Holy Cow!"
Vince Lloyd: "The Chicago Cubs are on the Air!" Len Kasper: "Oh Baby!!!!"
Ron Santo: "YES!" "All Right! Let's do it!" "Ohhh Nooooo!" "Gee Whiz! Come on!" AND... "This Is The Year!"

by #1 iowan cubs fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Were you in the ballpark? If so, I imagine your count is as good as mine.

Jack Brickhouse: "Hey! Hey!" Harry Caray: "Holy Cow!"
Vince Lloyd: "The Chicago Cubs are on the Air!" Len Kasper: "Oh Baby!!!!"
Ron Santo: "YES!" "All Right! Let's do it!" "Ohhh Nooooo!" "Gee Whiz! Come on!" AND... "This Is The Year!"

by #1 iowan cubs fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nope, watching on TV.

I was just joking, but there were not many. We talked about how the only good thing about sitting through the delay would be getting to sit anywhere you wanted.

by jpeters407 on Sep 18, 2011 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah that would be pretty cool especially if...

The Cubs came back and won it on in walk-off fashion in front of 100 people. Then if you are one of the 100 people, you’re one of very few who get to brag about seeing it in person. Plus, it would be a nice reward for sticking through the rain delay.

Jack Brickhouse: "Hey! Hey!" Harry Caray: "Holy Cow!"
Vince Lloyd: "The Chicago Cubs are on the Air!" Len Kasper: "Oh Baby!!!!"
Ron Santo: "YES!" "All Right! Let's do it!" "Ohhh Nooooo!" "Gee Whiz! Come on!" AND... "This Is The Year!"

by #1 iowan cubs fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

DLee hits that home run only if he's the go-ahead run himself.

If he’s not the go-ahead guy or the tying run at the plate, he doesn’t hit it out.

Too bad DLee’s hit from September 3rd didn’t end up being what Carlos Pena did today with the basket.

Jack Brickhouse: "Hey! Hey!" Harry Caray: "Holy Cow!"
Vince Lloyd: "The Chicago Cubs are on the Air!" Len Kasper: "Oh Baby!!!!"
Ron Santo: "YES!" "All Right! Let's do it!" "Ohhh Nooooo!" "Gee Whiz! Come on!" AND... "This Is The Year!"

by #1 iowan cubs fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's not a walk-off

A walk-off means after the hit, you walk off the field because the game is over.

The road team can’t hit a walk-off.

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 19, 2011 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Milwaukee will probably bring that many to Miller Park South themselves

How depressing that’s gonna be to see the frickin’ Brewers celebrate on Cubs field? I’m bettin’ they’re lookin’ forward to it, too.

You know life is good when you hear "Die Hard 5" is in production. Yippee ki-yay, &%^##(&(#&%-ers !

by Easy Ed on Sep 18, 2011 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Cubs can help prevent that.

Let’s hope they raise their game starting tomorrow.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 18, 2011 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Indeed

Let the Brewers clinch someplace else, please.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 18, 2011 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let them celebrate elsewhere

Wisconsin people already have chips on their shoulders regarding Illinoisans.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 18, 2011 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually, you're right

It’s the little brother syndrome. And it’s not pretty.

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 18, 2011 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, it's not

On a smaller scale, but it’s just like Canada vs. the U.S. and New Zealand vs. Australia.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 18, 2011 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Canada vs the US?

care to explain that one?

"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.

by Section 312 on Sep 18, 2011 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

There's a strain of anti-Americanism in Canada

that often seems childish and petty. It’s extremely prevalent in the media, and often among the population. Stuff is said about Americans that I’m quite sure wouldn’t be tolerated about any other group.

I’ve been to Canada dozens of times and have relatives there, so I’m quite familiar with it, although many Americans might not be.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 18, 2011 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is there any country on earth that doesn’t have a fair bit of anti-Americanism?

"Prince Fielder is too fat even for the Oakland A’s" - Billy Beane

by ol Pete on Sep 18, 2011 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well as much as your anecdotal

evidence is convincing mine is too. I grew up in Canada and don’t know anyone who has a bad thing to say about Americans. We make fun of your politicians, but come on that’s easy, but I love America. Seattle is one of my fav places in the world. I think judging any country by it’s media would give you a pretty low opinion of every country.

"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.

by Section 312 on Sep 21, 2011 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

I beg to differ on that remark.

Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.

State high point count: 4/50

If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

In general, however, it's true

People in Wisconsin love to complain about Illinois tollways, about the “flatlanders” coming up there for vacation. FIB is an acronym with which most people in Wisconsin are familiar.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 18, 2011 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I knew a guy in college, which was pretty long ago, who made some decent cash selling “Go back to Illinois” bumperstickers. I think the complaining is more about how they are when they come up to vacation.

"Prince Fielder is too fat even for the Oakland A’s" - Billy Beane

by ol Pete on Sep 18, 2011 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

For me, when I lived in Wisconsin,

I really didn’t mind people from Illinois coming up to visit. With family members in Illinois and Wisconsin, I really can’t afford to use terms like that.

Besides, to this day I still have plenty of friends in the Chicago area.

Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.

State high point count: 4/50

If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is amusing, giving that people in Wisconsin are also flat-landers

And I have followed many of them driving slowly on the mountain roads in Colorado…..Damn flat-landers!

by ClarkFan on Sep 18, 2011 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Living in Montana,

I found that comment amusing as well.

by RynoRooter on Sep 19, 2011 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

won't happen

I had noticed that when the Cubs lose the last game of a series, it actually translate to a 4 game losing streak. So, I think the Brewers will sweep the Cubs and end up celebrating at Wrigley!

We'll win... Someday!

by karlitodj79 on Sep 19, 2011 1:10 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

Oh.

You mean like when the Cubs lost this game, the last game of a series in Milwaukee?

Oh, wait. They won the next two games.

Or when they lost this game, the last game of a series in Houston?

Oh, wait. They beat the Cardinals two straight after that.

Or when they lost this game, the last game of a series against the Phillies?

Nope. They swept the Astros right after that.

Thanks for playing, though. Lovely parting gifts.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 19, 2011 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

bahahahahahahaha!!!

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Sep 19, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

hahahahaha

Right! And that’s why we are heading to 90 loses? I don’t want the Brewers to celebrate at Wrigley either, but they will, that’s how it will go down. I predict a sweep. I hope I’m wrong!

We'll win... Someday!

by karlitodj79 on Sep 19, 2011 3:03 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

Wow, I'll bet you did great on the debating team

Al refuted your comment with facts, and your response has absolutely nothing to do with said facts.

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 19, 2011 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

hahahahaha

Right! And that’s why Shanghai has a humid subtropical climate?

Seeya Jimbo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Sep 19, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hahahaahaah

Shoes are for ladyboys who don’t want their feetsies hurt!

by Nunyabidness on Sep 19, 2011 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Damn, I got nothing...

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 19, 2011 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

if you think about it...

it’s actually a punishment to celebrate at Wrigley. cramped visitors clubhouse, rats as big as poodles running around.15 fans in the stadium hanging around.

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Sep 19, 2011 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

How about if they had a song they sang and waved massive flags celebrating their victory?

"Prince Fielder is too fat even for the Oakland A’s" - Billy Beane

by ol Pete on Sep 18, 2011 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Most teams play a specific song when they win

I could do without the “W” flags in the stands. The t-shirts even more so.

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 18, 2011 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is that true? If it is I’m unaware, but does any fanbase other than the Cubs have a song they all sing on the road? Celebrating at home seems natural.

"Prince Fielder is too fat even for the Oakland A’s" - Billy Beane

by ol Pete on Sep 19, 2011 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

On the road?

Well, fans do that when they follow their team in large numbers.

In fact, I heard Yankee fans singing Sinatra’s “New York, New York” in the bleachers after the Yankees won at Wrigley this year.

The real question is, why does this bother you so much?

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by Al Yellon on Sep 19, 2011 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

The flags don't bother me.

Not sure why they bother you.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 19, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

I could do without them. Doesn't mean they bother me, just wouldn't be my choice

Especially in a year when the team is crap.

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 19, 2011 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

See Al's comment about the Theme From New York, New York

I suspect that this doesn’t bother you all that much, you’re just trying to make a point.

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 19, 2011 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

“28,215 for next 3 games gets it to 3 million”

27,429 actually…

I can’t believe the Cubs actually did it again. I fully expected 2.8-2.9 million at the most. I think that answers the question of whether or not ticket prices will go down for seating bowl.

"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts

by bluemagic9 on Sep 19, 2011 1:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

As I posted in the wait list thread...

… 3 million is a mirage. Tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of those were discounted, some of them to half price. I’ll bet the no-show count — which we will never hear officially — could be as many as one million.

So they got to the benchmark by discounting tickets. How does that NOT result in price reductions?

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by Al Yellon on Sep 19, 2011 7:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

sense making and MLB

Not happening any time soon

I'm going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp!!! Who's with me?

by VegasCubFan on Sep 18, 2011 6:23 PM CDT reply actions  

Good post, Al

It’s going to take a catastrophic injury for MLB to make changes on this issue, much like the bat issue. I wasn’t there, but it appeared to me the game should have been delayed a heck of a long time before the ninth inning.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 18, 2011 6:26 PM CDT reply actions  

Thankfully, none of those injuries

has resulted in anything serious. It will have to before anything’s done about it, unfortunately, which was my point.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 18, 2011 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

From what I see....

The Astros and the Cubs are pretty evenly matched.

Yet the Cubs are playing most of the vets everyday and the Astros are an AAA team plus Carlos Lee…Even on a “kiddie” day we see Byrd, DeWitt, Hill, and Pena….

At least they are playing for their future. We get to see Marlon Byrd swing at the first pitch every time up.

by TJ11 on Sep 18, 2011 7:44 PM CDT reply actions  

Byrd doesn't belong on a Mexican League team, so give them that.

And I’m pretty sure they would’ve won if that Pena double went 3 centimeters higher.

"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo

by chilango2 on Sep 18, 2011 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

^ this ^

Jack Brickhouse: "Hey! Hey!" Harry Caray: "Holy Cow!"
Vince Lloyd: "The Chicago Cubs are on the Air!" Len Kasper: "Oh Baby!!!!"
Ron Santo: "YES!" "All Right! Let's do it!" "Ohhh Nooooo!" "Gee Whiz! Come on!" AND... "This Is The Year!"

by #1 iowan cubs fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm really tired of Byrd

I really want him gone next year.

by Dcr18 on Sep 18, 2011 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree

he wasn’t this bad last year (swinging at everything).

by bazfan1234 on Sep 18, 2011 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

marlins will target aramis this offseason

what an energetic, defensively solid left side of the infield that would be!

I'm a happy panda.

by jesus christos on Sep 18, 2011 8:46 PM CDT reply actions  

Is that an assumption or did you hear this somewhere?

Or am I so humorless that I missed a good joke?

"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo

by chilango2 on Sep 18, 2011 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fo realz yo.

Oswaldo Guillen is gonna have a pretty thugtastic squad down there.

"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo

by chilango2 on Sep 18, 2011 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe the Cubs should endure watching the Brewers celebrate on their field,

you would think that would grate on them all off season. But then again I think several of this years team would not really care.

by jpeters407 on Sep 18, 2011 8:54 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

I really hope I don't have to watch that on Wednesday.

Like you hinted at, I think we care more than some of the players.

Then again, it would be a fitting end to 2011, and our first experience as STHs.

"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts

by bluemagic9 on Sep 19, 2011 12:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Rain Delay Issues... A Solution:

Put a retractable roof on every stadium! (laughs)

But seriously, I remember in 2005 when the Cubs and Cardinals played through rain. It happened in the 9th inning, the Cubs were down, and the only reason why the the Cubs started coming back was because the Cardinals missed a couple of outs that would have been made under normal conditions. Then finally an ump pulled the trigger on unrolling the tarp, but it was after some players had close calls to getting injured due to the conditions.

I can’t remember if the rain actually stopped but they called the game instead of resuming play with the Cubs having runners on in the 9th. Would the Cubs have rallied if they resumed play? Who knows? Was it the right call to end it anyway? With a day game scheduled the next day and the Cubs out of playoff contention… yes, I believe it was the right call. The decisions made today and on September 3rd… I think they waited too long to call on the tarp, and I’m indifferent on the decision to resume play.

BTW, on that game from 2005, the Cardinals ended up clinching the division that night… but celebrated in their own clubhouse instead of on the field.

Jack Brickhouse: "Hey! Hey!" Harry Caray: "Holy Cow!"
Vince Lloyd: "The Chicago Cubs are on the Air!" Len Kasper: "Oh Baby!!!!"
Ron Santo: "YES!" "All Right! Let's do it!" "Ohhh Nooooo!" "Gee Whiz! Come on!" AND... "This Is The Year!"

by #1 iowan cubs fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:25 PM CDT reply actions  

Memory lane on the basket in left field.

IIRC, didn’t Todd Zeile hit one off the basket years ago with the Mets? I believe he hit it along the left field well. I think the umpires eventually said it wasn’t a homer. But this was probably back in the year 2000-ish. Anyone remember what I’m talking about?

Jack Brickhouse: "Hey! Hey!" Harry Caray: "Holy Cow!"
Vince Lloyd: "The Chicago Cubs are on the Air!" Len Kasper: "Oh Baby!!!!"
Ron Santo: "YES!" "All Right! Let's do it!" "Ohhh Nooooo!" "Gee Whiz! Come on!" AND... "This Is The Year!"

by #1 iowan cubs fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:50 PM CDT reply actions  

After doing research...

It looks like the game I’m referring to was from June 25, 2001. It was the only extra base hit to left field Todd Zeile had as a Met at Wrigley Field. And if that is the correct game, the umpires called it a home run. Even though the ball hit off the top of the basket and went back onto the field. Unlike today’s game, there was no home run replay being used back then. And unlike today’s game, Don Baylor didn’t get ejected arguing the call.

Cubs still beat the Mets that night 2-1, on the eve of my 12th birthday.

Jack Brickhouse: "Hey! Hey!" Harry Caray: "Holy Cow!"
Vince Lloyd: "The Chicago Cubs are on the Air!" Len Kasper: "Oh Baby!!!!"
Ron Santo: "YES!" "All Right! Let's do it!" "Ohhh Nooooo!" "Gee Whiz! Come on!" AND... "This Is The Year!"

by #1 iowan cubs fan on Sep 18, 2011 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

You can do it, Q!!

Come, Mike, just one more toss-out and your brief, inglorious tenure as Cubs manager can at least be festooned with the ejection record.

My vote would be to have the record setting ejection be a piece of performance art—-paying tribute to some great managers of the past—-start with turning the cap on backward so as to allow closer face to face jawing with the man in blue (The Earl of Baltimore), followed by some dirt kicking (Billy Martin), and of course, concluding with a base toss. (Sweet Lou). Maybe as an encore toss a few bats on the field as you head down the tunnel. (Bobby Cox)

by perseman on Sep 18, 2011 10:16 PM CDT reply actions  

And then Q should eject the umpire himself.

Jack Brickhouse: "Hey! Hey!" Harry Caray: "Holy Cow!"
Vince Lloyd: "The Chicago Cubs are on the Air!" Len Kasper: "Oh Baby!!!!"
Ron Santo: "YES!" "All Right! Let's do it!" "Ohhh Nooooo!" "Gee Whiz! Come on!" AND... "This Is The Year!"

by #1 iowan cubs fan on Sep 18, 2011 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

What I'd like to see here on out...

1. Cubs finish 72-90 — go 5-4 here on out and its a record they probably deserve
2. Castro get over 212 hits — this would put him tied for top 5 single season in Cubs history
3. Ricketts announce that he will allow the new GM to select a new manager.

In my lifetime please!

by Kennabelle on Sep 18, 2011 10:46 PM CDT reply actions  

If the next GM wants to retain Quade

Then I don’t want him to be the next GM.

Seeya Jimbo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Sep 18, 2011 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Which is why Ricketts would say

“The new GM will select a NEW manager”

In my lifetime please!

by Kennabelle on Sep 19, 2011 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ricketts is gonna be hands off with that stuff.

He’s not going to tell the new GM how to do his job, especially not in the media.

Seeya Jimbo! Good job, Tommy Boy!

by shoemile on Sep 19, 2011 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

With two crap teams that have been eliminated..

Why even come back for the 9th?

"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts

by bluemagic9 on Sep 19, 2011 12:48 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

gotta pad the stats

so the Stros and the Cubs will have good trade bait come December. LOL What a joke.

by ChicagoBlues1983 on Sep 19, 2011 2:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

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by Al Yellon on Sep 19, 2011 7:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Joked Above...but true

When Wrigley is renovated, it absolutely should include a retractable roof. It would increase attendance in April, and make it a much more comfortable experience @ Wrigley. It will also give the Ricketts more opportunity for revenue that could include other sports. It’s an absolute shame that Soldier Field doesn’t have one. Ricketts could have a real opportunity for new revenue for the Cubs and the city/state.

"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"

by vin23 on Sep 19, 2011 9:13 AM CDT reply actions  

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