Carlos Marmol Fails Again; Cardinals Beat Cubs, Stay In Wild Card Hunt
by Al Yellon on Sep 24, 2011 3:15 PM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
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One of two things has to happen with Carlos Marmol once the Cubs hire a new general manager (and, presumably, a new manager).
Either get a pitching coach here who can work with him and try to solve his control issues, or trade him.
Marmol had another stunning ninth-inning meltdown, throwing only 13 strikes in 30 pitches and walking in the tying run, then wild-pitching in the winning run as the Cardinals stayed in the wild card race with a 2-1 win over the Cubs.
For Marmol, it was his 10th blown save of the season, which now leads the National League by three -- that's right, no one else has more than seven. If you think that doesn't matter, consider that Jose Valverde of the Tigers has 47 saves without a blown save this year. Convert those 10 blown saves -- some of them in spectacular fashion -- and you've got a team that's 80-78 instead of 70-88. Sure, that's probably a simplistic reaction to this, and the Cubs have actually won two of the 10 games in which Marmol has blown a save, but there's clearly something wrong with Marmol that no one on the current team has been able to fix. His walks are actually down this year -- 5.4 per nine innings, compared to 6.0 in 2010 -- but he's given up more hits, and struck out fewer batters, which gives him much less margin for error.
There's one other thing a manager can do in a situation like this, and for this I can't blame Mike Quade, because no one does this: take the guy out when he's struggling! Quade used Marmol in a non-save situation Friday night, and even then he wasn't sharp, throwing 16 pitches (only nine strikes). Maybe it would have been wise to have someone else loosening up. Who, you say? Does it matter when a pitcher is having as bad an inning as Marmol? Seriously, who could have done worse than that?
It's really too bad, because Rodrigo Lopez, Andrew Cashner and Sean Marshall had combined for eight outstanding innings. They gave up just four singles and two walks, and it appeared that the first-inning run driven in by Alfonso Soriano was going to be enough for MLB's 53rd 1-0 game of the season.
I have dissed Lopez quite a bit this year. He was excellent today; it was his best start since he threw seven shutout innings against the White Sox on July 3. But here's the thing: if you want him to be an inning-eating fifth starter, that's not who he is. In 16 starts, he's thrown six or more innings only six times. He hasn't posted an ERA under four since 2004. He's a fifth starter on a bad team. If you want the Cubs to be a bad team again in 2012, by all means, keep him as fifth starter, especially since he's going to be 36 in December. Otherwise, I'd thank him for his service and move on. To me, regardless of his performance, he's a symbol of the mismanagement of the Jim Hendry regime (as is Ramon Ortiz). Grab other guys off the waiver wire or from non-tenders this offseason.
As for the Cardinals, since the Braves lost Saturday afternoon, St. Louis moves to within two games of the wild card lead with four games left. The Cubs can still deal them another blow tomorrow, but there's life in St. Louis' apparently dead playoff hopes.
For the Cubs, they can still avoid a 90-loss season by winning three of their four remaining games. It's a small goal, but I'd like to see them do it, to set a positive tone for 2012.
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Truly fantastic job by Marmol this afternoon...
Next year, if he is the closer at the beginning of the season, something is wrong with the new cubs management. Marshall, Samardzija, Cashner, or Wood could easily be the closer next year….and even Russell should be in consideration.
Who should the Cubs
send Quade & Marmol to? They should be a package deal. One screws up the duration of the game, and the other is the icing on the cake of defeat.
by ddoubleheader on Sep 24, 2011 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I can't believe the Cubs didn't trade Marmol to Texas at the deadline.
Marmol is going to get really GD expensive for a pitcher who is abjectly unusable 50% of the time.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
This is why
you don’t sign closers to long-term contracts. Sure, there are a few like Rivera and Hoffman who stay good for a long, long time, but mostly they just have two or three good seasons and then they’re done.
Plus the Cubs have about five guys who could close in the bullpen or in the minors.
Good luck to the new GM trying to dump Marmol’s contract. But we’ll see what happens. Maybe he’ll be good again next year.
I'd amend your post
This is why you don’t sign CLOSERS/OUTFIELDERS WITH DYING KNEES/STARTING PITCHERS WHO ARE NUTCASES to long-term contracts
by BeltwayCubsFan on Sep 24, 2011 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions
They could have dumped the contract this year at the deadline.
I have no idea why they didn’t.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
They weren't dumping it for free.
The Cubs would have sent money with him. The Cubs owe Marmol $16 million.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
I hadn't heard anything about proposed terms.
Marmol’s contract gets a little unwieldy after this week.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I didn't either but Texas wouldn't pick up all the 16 million.
That was why they wanted Mike Adams over Heath Bell. Adams is cost controlled next year over Bell who would cost a lot to bring back.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
Lee Smith - Last Cubs Closer With....
3 straight seasons of an ERA+ of 130+ from 1985-1987. It’s hard to have much of a shelf life as a closer.
Good things come to those who wait... and wait....and wait.
...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
by eths on Sep 24, 2011 3:36 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
i throw a mean change up
I'm a happy panda.
by jesus christos on Sep 24, 2011 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions
almost time to start hibernating.....
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
by eths on Sep 24, 2011 3:32 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Autumn is
what separates the Cubs from the Bears. Or maybe it’s when Cubs become Bears. Or something like that.
by ddoubleheader on Sep 24, 2011 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Well...if it makesya feel any better...
I don’t expect much from the Bears either…continuing tomorrow…
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
Same here
I don’t expect the Bears to be able to cut the cheese.
by ddoubleheader on Sep 24, 2011 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions
A Good Seventh Inning Set-Up
Perhaps it is my imagination BUT…………it seems that Marmol has always had a certain stubborn quality about him. (as in…..I know better).
Even a coach’s trip to the mound or a catcher’s suggestions, seem to have NO effect on him. (unlike most pitchers).
Once again it is a management that is TOO WEAK to set the rules
Let's see.....
People want him to find takers for Z, Soriano, Byrd and Marmol, sign Fielder and Wilson, find yet another starting pitcher, find a 3rd baseman and right fielder. The new GM will be criticized the day he starts.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
If he makes some of those moves he will be praised.
If he made all of them he would be hailed as the second coming, at least until the season started.
My guess, unfortunately, is that the Cubs will do almost none of those.
I think the best bet is for Zambrano’s contract to be eaten, but with the way this team is managed from top to bottom, I completely expect to see pretty much the exact team next year, including Blake DeWitt as our starting third baseman.
Tyler Colvin will also be traded for nothing after Cubs management stands behind Quade while saying that injuries were the cause of our problems this season. I expect to see the entire coaching staff back as well.
Nothing will begin to change until people stop going to the games completely. Ticket prices are only part of the problem. The majority of the problem is that the past few seasons have been terrible since the 97 win team was dismantled to get Milton Bradley and most Cubs fans don’t see any hurry to fix things.
In summary, I expect to see the same awesome team and coaching staff next year along with a lot of excuses.
I think you will be wrong.
It has already started with the firing of Hendry and the change in Kenney’s position to eliminate him from the baseball side.
I don't understand how you can say all of these things when a new GM hasn't even been named yet.
Seeya Jimbo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
Though based on the Cubs previous behavior
look for the glamorous new Cubs lineup!
Zambrano pitching
Quade managing
Marmol closing (the game for the other team)
by ddoubleheader on Sep 24, 2011 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I think there will be a change - all those empty seats the last month are an omen for the future
Those seats were purchased to make money, not by fans. With the losses taken selling them, there may be some issues next year.
And no reason to trade Colvin – he was so bad this year he won’t bring anything. Hope the new GM revises the hitting staff, work with him in the winter, and see if he can do better in ST.
They'll be back
They always come back. Though if they chose Quade for another season, I think that will prevent attendance from rebounding, but any new manager, even a schmuck, will make attendance go up.
by ddoubleheader on Sep 24, 2011 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Do you guys know if win tommorrow, whether the Cardinals will fall short of a Wild Card
There isn’t much to salvage this season obviously, so I would love to knock those schmucks from the state of misery out of the playoffs.
48 minutes of intensity
Coupled with a Braves win it would assure them of only being able to tie for Wildcard
But odds would be tough if they lose tomorrow.
by LT on Sep 24, 2011 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep
What the Cubs have as goals for the rest of the season:
Spoil the Cardinals postseason chances
Not finish in 5th place
by ddoubleheader on Sep 24, 2011 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions
i’m sorry i can’t put this on marmol. you said it yourself al. marmol has blown 10 SAVES already and the next closest closer has 7. if you know that marmol has had issues and you don’t immediately get someone up (or at least send your pitching coach out there to try and settle him down), then this is 100% on the manager. i’m sure any manager wants to trust his closer, but you cannot keep sending a guy out there who keeps putting himself in these situations to begin with.
i don’t know who was still available in the pen, but when marmol walked the first man i would have gotten someone up and sent geo to ask marmol what his favorite food was, then send the pitching coach out there.
i don’t see any good trade value for marmol. he’s been this bad under two pitching coaches, one of which is a pretty good one in rothschild and his value continues to devalue with each passing blowup in save situations. he’s been bad ever since the tampa bay series in 2008. ever since that series (which i saw in person) he has never looked right.
couldn't send the pitching coach out there cause
Q had to reserve the visit to the mound for himself – to gather everybody around and go over the defense against the double steal – he surely didn’t want to get beat by that!!
by doofus cubs guy on Sep 24, 2011 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions
He was bad last year?
He was effectively wild. It is simply that his penchant to get himself in trouble has caught up to him. I wonder in how many of his blown save this year he was a strike away from sealing the deal. He was today, and the day DLee hit the grand slam that’s two.
He wasn't this bad under Rothschild. His slider hasn't been good this year.
Anyway, he’s only one of many problems and bad contracts this team has to deal with. This team has no chance of being good next year. Hopefully, the owner, GM and fans don’t settle for bandaids to try and “compete”. To do it right will take some time.
Huh? This isn't Marmol's fault? Seriously?
The man is paid good money to close out games. He can’t do it. It is totally on Marmol. Not Quade. It would be like blaming Dunston for a Castro error or blaming Rudy J. for a guy swinging at a pitch that bounces in the dirt. Hopefully, whoever it is, the new GM and IF, a new manager, start holding these guys accountable for epic failures and STOP excusing them or “passing the buck”. Marmol needs to take the frickin’ train after the season.
"When I came up to bat with three men on and two outs in the ninth, I looked in the other team's dugout and they were already in street clothes." - Bob Uecker
you know the story of the frog and the scorpion?
the one where the scorpion stings the frog as they are crossing a river which causes both to drown? what does the scorpion say when the frog asks him why he stung him?
“i can’t help it, it’s my nature”.
that’s why it’s on quade. marmol has been either very good or very bad and it is pretty easy to see when he is on or off. for the last month when marmol has come in, i always had in the back of my head that someone needs to get loose just in case.
i haven’t really trusted marmol for a while now, i’m not sure why he hasn’t been replaced as closer given his body of work.
Cue Voyager clip
Sheesh. Seems like the only Seven of Nine the Cubs know is losing 7 in 9 games at times. They feel like they’re 75,000ly from a postseason-contending team.
by ddoubleheader on Sep 24, 2011 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions
But, they are like Seven of Nine in another way
They have 2 really big boobs- Quade and Marmol.
by ddoubleheader on Sep 24, 2011 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions
The love of the slider.
He pushed the ball past Freese. His fastball I thought was good today, 93-94MPH. Why in the world you throw sliders to Theriot is baffling. I understand Theriot is 2 for 4 against Marmol, but you have to throw strikes. Hell the 2-0 pitch was a ball to Theriot which was slider. I think he got away from the fastball because Holiday got a hit off of him, who knows.To let Molina, Skip Shumacher and Theriot beat you, ouch.
That being said, I think you have to have somebody getting ready. Nine blown saves going in today’s game. This has been a broken record all year, and still a empty bullpen.
its not like theriot burned marmol on a slider earlier in the season
oh wait…
I'm a happy panda.
by jesus christos on Sep 24, 2011 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions
So, who's gonna ask Big Z what he thinks about Marmol's performance?
Seeya Jimbo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
sickening
is all I can say after watching the Cubs play well all afternoon. I (and many others) could see that coming. Marmol should have been pulled. He was terrible and the Cards weren’t swinging. Lopez deserved a win today.
by If we only had Hubbs on Sep 24, 2011 3:59 PM CDT reply actions
Get Quade in for a
complete eye exam . So the rest of us saw Marmol struggle . Just what was in Quades vision today ? Sure hope a new GM can try and fix this mess .
Quade was looking to next year
he has a 2-year contract and according to him, he’s done a great job.
I'm going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp!!! Who's with me?
Hey
Someone can have 20/20 vision and still see things that aren’t there. It’s called hallucinations. I think we’ve all convinced ourselves often Quade is seeing a very different game from the one we’re seeing on tv or in the stands.
by ddoubleheader on Sep 24, 2011 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Wasn't today a fitting
illustration of the 2011 Cubs? We buy the sizzle but end up giving our heart to an inconsistent player and then act surprised. Has Marmol ever been a guy we should have counted on as a closer. His BB/9 in 2009 was 7.9 but we loved his K rate and the drama he brought to the end of a game.
We insisted he be signed long term and now the Cubs are on the hook for $7M in 2012 and $9.8M in 2013. What team wants that Contract? And before we blame Riggins, let’s notice that his BB rate is down considerably from what it was when Rothschild was here.
Before we start loving the sizzle of other players and reward them with big dollars only to see their Achilles heels, let’s get a smart GM with complete power to make changes as soon as possible.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Done with Marmol.
Unless he’s hurt, there’s no excuse for this crap. The Cardinals’ 7/8/9 hitters (In the case of Theriot, more like 12/13 hitter, really) are not the people you need to throw sliders to for any reason other than to get them fishing 0-2. If you supposedly have a top tier fastball, use it.
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
The only hope with Marmol
is if the next pitching coach can fix his mechanical issues. His slider has been flat most of the season causing his “effective” wildness to become wild, ineffective, hittable Marmol.
He's been practicing with the wrong kind of slider
Maybe he’s been spending more time at the White Castle tables than at the bullpen.
by ddoubleheader on Sep 24, 2011 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions
His mechanics have been this way from day 1.
He has fallen off the mound forever. His body has never been squared to the plate. I am sure Rothschild tried, and who knows with our new Pitching coach. Good luck
You mean...☼GASP!☼
you don’t think Riggsy will be the PC next year!?
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
Yes, he has always had an unorthodox delivery
but his slider has always been one of the best in baseball, this year, not so much. Am I saying I want him as the closer in 2012, no. But you can’t ignore the fact that he broke a record last year with strikeouts per 9 inning. A good pitching coach may be able to fix his mechanics.
Rothschild was never able to fix it
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
That doesn't mean someone else can't
I find it funny though that so many people praise Rothschild now that he is actually gone. The last few years, so many people here complained about how bad a pitching coach he was.
I liked him.
Seeya Jimbo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
by shoemile on Sep 24, 2011 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wanted him gone when Lou P took over
…just cuz I wanted the ole ‘out with the old approach’…
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
Coffee is for closers.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Sep 24, 2011 4:14 PM CDT reply actions
Do You Know what it takes to close in the Major Leagues?
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Sep 24, 2011 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey...
What is that ? All My Love, C. Marmol
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
You can't close the leads you're given?
You can’t close shit.
You ARE shit.
Hit the bricks pal and beat it because you are going OUT!
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Sep 24, 2011 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions
A-I-D-A QIAFI
Attention
Interest
Decision
Action
Attention: Do I have your Attention?
Interest: Are you interested? I know you are because it’s ‘fuck or walk’. You close or you hit the bricks.
Decision: Have you made your decision, FOR CHRIST?
And Action.
WWOZ.org - New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Station
by Gibbon Jockey on Sep 24, 2011 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Should be printed over doorway
on the way to Cubs dugout…
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
The book is out on Marmol
1. He throws his fast ball for borderline strikes at best.
2. He may be erratic. Or very erratic.
3. If he is erratic, wait him out and take the walk.
4. If he initially misses with his slider, he may leave one up and over the plate. Hammer it.
I know Marmol can be effective, mostly because he has been effectively wild before. But it would be better for Marmol if he tightened up his fastball.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
And...
The odds of Marmol tightening up his fastball are??? (Thank Gawd for Riggsy…) Somewhere…Larry Rothchild is chuckling quietly to himself…
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
Marmol's BB rate was 7.9 under Rothschild
This year it’s 5.4. In truth, Marmol should never have been our closer. No good team turns the role over to a guy who can’t throw strikes.
If it wasn't for the injuries, we'd be printing WS tickets right now.
Honestly...
…if every team Marmol faced took two strikes before they swung, he would likely save only half of the games he attempts, at least at this point.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
^THIS!^
(I’m not sure of the accuracy…but it’s frightening that it can even be considered!)
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
Sorry...Company I hired got Ricketts name wrong...
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
Sad to say, but IMHO
this is one (of the many) tough losses for the Cubs this year. Not because Marmol blew the lead in typical Carlos 2011 fashion but rather it’s because we all knew (exclude The Quade here) that it was coming and it STILL friggin happened!!! ARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGH!!!
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
He just doesn't need to be a closer.
10 blown saves on a 5th place team is horrific. Hell, it’s horrific no matter how you look at it. When I think of a closer, I think of one word: consistent. Marmol is the complete opposite of that.
I hope to God that the new GM has common sense and makes the appropriate changes.
'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'
the problem will still be that the GM has to deal with the crappy contracts in place
I'm going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp!!! Who's with me?
Considering all of the problems this team has.
I’d rather the Cubs try and fix other problem areas and just bump Marmol down in the bullpen, unless someone calls them up with a decent trade proposition for him.
Seeya Jimbo! Good job, Tommy Boy!
by shoemile on Sep 24, 2011 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Marmol is too wild to be a closer and came into the season out of shape
Just pathetic the second you sign a contract you gain 20 pounds.
You can say that his strike out rate was going to regress from last year no matter what but a big reason it’s down is his fastball.
His fastball last year was 94.1 on avg and now it’s around 91 mph. His fastball goes down then his slider becomes easier to hit.
At this point without a super elite strikeout rate 13-14 k/9 he is better suited for the set up role. Where he is more likely to be yanked when he loses his command.
Marshall is closer material. He has good control and strikes batter out and limits home runs. He is less likely to meltdown.
Jim Hendrys last laugher perhaps???
20 million for 3 years…
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
I fear that won't make a difference
the damage seems done. :[
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
Hey Al
If you want the Cubs to be a bad team again in 2012, by all means, keep him as fifth starter
I hate to tell you but the Cubs will be a bad team in 2012 with or without RoLo.
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Sep 24, 2011 5:40 PM CDT reply actions
But...
we suspect!. (Tho I said I’d take a bad 2012 for a good future…) :]
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
Yep, if it set up a long run of contention
ala the Braves, Phils, Yanks, Red Sox a bad 2012 would be worth it.
That's a
very difficult point to make here… Fans are tired…many want a WS Champ n.o.w. (But I can’t see it in 2012 regardless of ANY moves made)
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
You never know:
Brian LaHair might be an all-star?
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Sep 24, 2011 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions
might...
Is The Prince happy for Da Brew Crew today??? :]
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
If Coleman and Ro Lo
are in the rotation yes, 88-90 losses easy. I am still hoping for new starters in the 4/5 spots, a new manager, Cuddyer at 3rd, and hoping upon a ton of starts someones takes Soriano and Z and the return is adequate.
It wouldn't surprise me
if the Cubs offer Rolo a two year contact for $5,000.000 per year. Would be pretty typical. It’s how we got all these bad contracts. Just hit or pitch good for awhile and you’ll be rewarded.
john grabow would agree with you
but he’s too busy counting all his money
I'm a happy panda.
by jesus christos on Sep 24, 2011 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
If you don't want to fall asleep tonight try imagining what Hendry could have gotten last
offseason if he didn’t consider Marmol untouchable.
They have
‘special’…deep, dark corners of Hell for people who post comments like THAT! :] o-u-c-h…don’t remind us!
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
I can't believe I still get so upset
when they lose. Especially like this.
Football? Football? What's a football?-Ralphie Parker
still upset
I almost threw the tv changer through the TV when I saw Marmol screw up again.
wccubfan
I had to leave the room.
I knew it was coming.
Football? Football? What's a football?-Ralphie Parker
by katie casey on Sep 24, 2011 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Sigh
By now Quade should have somebody up when Marmol enters the inning especially with a 1-run lead. The games don’t matter, but when you’re going through the motions of trying to compete then do it right.
It would be hard to trade Marmol because he makes $7 million in 2012 and $9.8 in 2013. That’s a little rich for a closer who isn’t in command. They shouldn’t just take him out of the role and make him a setup man. Never really bought the closer role. A closer is just a reliever who by definition isn’t a specialist. They should try Marshall, Samardzija or maybe Cashner or Carpenter for closing.
You usually don’t win games when you score only 1 run, but I’m glad LaHair got a couple of hits today.
How many loses can you blame on Quade and how many can you blame on Marmol?
Anytime Marmol walks the bases loaded and isnt yanked i will score a loss for Quade. I mean for god sakes you let him walk the bases loaded and then let him walk in the tying rung while still not bringing anybody in, when he clearly could throw a strike.
I really believe at this point that if you just changed the closer to Marshall and replaced Quade with someone like Giardi this team would be 10 wins better.
Their are some many small changes that would actually make this team watchable but doing fundamental stuff like throwing to your cut off man, laying down a bunt, or yanking your closer is harder than performing open heart surgery for this team.
well then...
we’re all about VENTING in 2011!!! :]
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
This was on Marmol
He was bad in the WBC
I thought he might improve
No
by FXDregs on Sep 24, 2011 6:53 PM CDT via iPhone app reply actions
Honesty compels me to say,
blown saves just gall me. Blown saves against the Cardinals make me feel like puking.
Ten blown saves.
Three ahead of anyone else in that department. You would think that would tell someone something.
"Cubs fans....the wind beneath the Hawk's wings." Andre Dawson, on his induction into the Baseball Hall of Fame, 7/25/10
Rest in peace, Ronnie. You will always be in my Hall of Fame.
The three drunk Cubs fans
sitting behind me in the bleachers started taunting the Cards fans in the area in the middle of the ninth. I told them not to get too excited, because the Cardiac Closer was coming on. When Marshall set them down in the eighth, I prayed he would come back in the ninth. Wrong. As we were all leaving after the Marmol meltdown, the looks on all the Cubs fans said it all…no shock, no surprise. We all knew it was coming. What ticked me off was that after the first walk, and the second, I kept looking over into the Cubs bullpen to see who was warming up, and NOBODY was there. After the third walk, then it was too late. A beautiful day, good pitching, all crushed by our “closer” and his all too routine control issues.
"Cubs fans....the wind beneath the Hawk's wings." Andre Dawson, on his induction into the Baseball Hall of Fame, 7/25/10
Rest in peace, Ronnie. You will always be in my Hall of Fame.
I too was a t the game and said about the same thing. There was zero shock when he blew it.
It was obvious he didnt have it. Even the first out was a line shot to CF…
Also I have seen La Russa remove his closer when struggling before, Good managers can handle this,
They have 2 WS titles in the last 15 years
They can do whatever they want. I don’t think it looks that bad. Not sure why they are changing their look anyway…
In my lifetime please!
Because they're changing their name
As part of their new stadium deal, they have to change their name to the “Miami Marlins.” Would look pretty silly for the Miami Marlins to have a big F on their hat.
by Josh Timmers on Sep 24, 2011 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Taste the rainbow
They enter into a branding rights agreement with Skittles? That logo is U-G-L-Y (as opposed to Uggla).
by ddoubleheader on Sep 24, 2011 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions
If they would have just made the M all-white
I think it would be OK. The Red and Blue Marlin coming out the the M is OK. But the day-glo outline on the M is awful.
by Josh Timmers on Sep 24, 2011 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Like a Jackson Pollack painting, that's what.
Their current uniforms were fine.
by ddoubleheader on Sep 24, 2011 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Though his performance is
to put it mildly, less than adequate, the yakkety-yak about trading the guy is a bit shortsighted with a look at history. The record for blown saves in a season is shared by five pitchers, all at fourteen. Rollie Fingers 1976, Bruce Sutter 1978, Bob Stanley 1983, Ron Davis 1984, and Jerry Staley 1984. Fingers had the lowest save percentage at 58.8% and Stanley had the highest at 70.2%. Marmol is at 77.3% I lean toward one of Yellen’s views that we need to sit back, take a breath, and see what a true pitching coach in 2012 will provide. In ST throw the closer role open to competition between Marmol and Cashner. If Marmol loses, make him the 7th or 8th inning guy. He seems to respond better when backed into a corner.
Uh?!
He’s always in a corner!!! If he doesn’t start in a corner…he makes sure he ENDS UP IN ONE!!! :]
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
And all those guys
pitched in an era when closers pitched two or three innings, not one. Marmol is blowing all these in one inning.
by Josh Timmers on Sep 24, 2011 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Apples to oranges
Closers used to pitch 2, 3, or 4 innings at a time back in the 70s and 80s, and they’d often actually come in when the starter was in a jam. Today’s closers usually come in with nobody on base for one inning. Of course they have a higher save percentage.
by SouthernCub on Sep 24, 2011 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree for example
Fingers pitched 134 innings in 1976. That is a lot more opportunities to blow saves.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
The high save percentage really came in with LaRussa's use of Eckersley in Oakland
Have the closer start the 9th with a clean slate. Really, a major league pitcher should be able to go one inning in that situation without giving up a run a very high percentage of the time (as long as that pitcher is not a 2011 Cubs starter….).
Quade must Go because the fans don't want him period.
Its on Quade….he never lets a pitcher like Cashner, Wood, or Marshall who takes them down 1-2-3 in the 8th go ahead on and finish the 9th. Have Marmol ready warming up if they give up a hit or walk someone. Quade is way in over his head. How do our minor leaguers & new draft picks feel watching their Cubs manager cater to all the vets & say to hell with the rookies. He ruined Colvin’s confidence, he plays Lahair part-time, & told Clevenger glad your here bit you won’t play because Hill has earned the backup job with his .180 batting average. With Q playing favorites like johnson, DeWitt, Baker etc is hurting the future of the team. If I was Tom Ricketts, someone on top should have told Q-less either play the rookies some or go home early your services are not needed. The poll in the Tribune this week said it all…90% of 3,500 votes don’t want Q back. Ricketts should release him before the new GM gets here which would be fine with the fans & media. I would like to see Rick Hahn get the GM & Kim Ng as President. Ryno then would be Manager. It would be really sweet to send a female in to tell Q & yes Riggins they are no longer needed. The nickname days would be over & yes you are very delussional that you think you did a good job finishing 20+ games out of 1st. I think a lot of fans would donate heavily to pay your 1 million dollar contract off for Ricketts to send you home for the 2012 season.
Avoiding the 90-loss mark
…is going to give us some momentum going into next season? Seriously? How would that possibly make us think differently going into 2012?
In my lifetime please!
Here's the conundrum:
I can’t wait for this disaster of a season to be over. But once it’s over I’ll be waiting for the next season to start. And I’m afraid 2012 doesn’t look a whole hellva lot more promising.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
A lot of things would have to go right for 2012 to be promising
Jackson and Cashner stepping up, Wells rebounding to old form, another position player emerging, signing a couple of top-tier free agents (one of which may need to be Ramirez).
by SouthernCub on Sep 24, 2011 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I like the injection of youth,
and that’s about it. A new GM and manager would entice me, however.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Well, at least we will get half of that ..
.. and while that is good news, I don’t believe anything affliated with Mike Quade. Not only has he been a horrible in game manager, it seems like he can’t control his clubhouse at all.
If none of our over paid adult men cannot be leaders, then at least find a manager that is the leader of the team. Find a manager that holds players accountable. Instead we have freakin’ Barney Fife as our manager.
'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'
Barney Fife is right
How many times has he shot himself in the foot this year? Too bad we didn’t have Andy around to keep him in check.
by LT on Sep 25, 2011 8:02 AM CDT up reply actions
dtpollitt has
hit the nail on the head here! We’re all griping our way thru 2011…and by mid-November, we’ll be looking forward to 2012. True, we may be looking for different reasons, a new GM, Org changes, Big Z status, hoping Soriano (doing well in 2011, late), Aram, Demp and others all "end up where we hope they should end up…, etc. Oh, and as an afterthought…some of us are curious as to the fate of The Quade… :]
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
Rodrigo Lopez
Should not be the fifth starter next year. He should be exactly what the Braves wanted him to be: a minor league deal who can fill in for a couple starts here or there, that no one will claim when he gets DFA’d back to the minors.
Marmol sucks. Actually that’s not fair. Marmol didn’t take his offseason work seriously, and as a result, he sucks.
by Mulhollandmania on Sep 25, 2011 12:03 AM CDT reply actions
Lopez
I’d be fine with bringing him back next spring as a potential long reliever/6th man in the pen. For that role, he has been fine.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
Unless we get a new manager with a completely different philosophy...
… the Cubs won’t have a “long reliever”. They haven’t had one since Lou Piniella took over as manager.
Know how many relief appearances a Cubs reliever made this year of more than two innings?
Eight. That’s right, just eight times did a Cubs reliever get a “long relief” appearance. And two of them — the 89-pitch appearance of Jeff Stevens on April 22, and the five-inning relief appearance of Marcos Mateo on June 30 — put the pitcher on the DL.
What a mess this coaching staff is.
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I'm hoping a new GM will be in place soon.
There’s really no hurry to fire the manager after 9/28. There are no games until spring.
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From your keyboard to gawds ears!
(I’ll hope n pray…but I do not see that happening…)
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
everybody
has a bad season once in a while. but watching this guy come in and just walk batter after batter until he loses the game, painfull.hopefully he’ll be back to normal next year. most of the time he’s spot on 1-2-3. but as a closer you;re expected to be perfect.
and
anybody wanting ramirez back he’s made it pretty clear he’s not coming back. so let’s not debate this all winter. we move on. castro to 3rd.simple.then you have a bill madlock type hittter at the corner.
Jim Hendry the worst GM in baseball history?
Has a GM ever screwed a franchise more than this guy with bad money? Hey, Tom, my parting gift is the 16.8 million owed to Marmol the next two years, Stunningly pathetic.
"Worst In History" is a tough title to prove
And tho Jim H did bring us some playoff teams, this is a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately-world. I remember the excitement of Sorianos signing, and being sickened by MeltDown BraTleys…he had some ups…but it’s all been downs lately. I posted above that Marmol may yet prove to be “Hendrys Last Laugh”.
"So sad, This Cubbie Thing" Courtesy of E-Man, 6/25/2011
maybe not the worst in history
but pretty damn awful to be in a big market with all the resources and be as stunningly pathetic has you could be the last two years and in 2006. Brutal.
Is it just me or did DeWitt's utility guy status go down a few pegs
What was it? Three very poor plays at 3b? I am not sure I have ever seen a ball sail so slowly from third in all my years of watching baseball. Lets hope this DeWitt thing is nearing an end and maybe get DJ in there for the remainder.
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
Quade will continue to play the vets....
DJ in for defense in the 9th says a lot about DeWitts defense…..
DJ of course should have started in the first place.
wow
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
by truelinkfence on Sep 25, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
That's because
he’s managing his games… in the Twilight Zone!
by ddoubleheader on Sep 25, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
if he is he will be anywhere but 1b
On the surface and not digging through the stats seems like Pena picked it up a bit once LaHair started getting some time.
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
by truelinkfence on Sep 25, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
TY
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
by truelinkfence on Sep 25, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually, no.
It was announced on the Friday telecast that Clevenger would start Monday, Soto Tues & Wed.
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Gotta see what ol' Geo's got left in the tank!
Gotta get your stud catcher his AB’s!
by Mulhollandmania on Sep 25, 2011 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions
If the new GM has living brain cells, Franchise is a non-tender
Should have been a straight swap for Theriot, but Genius Jim threw Ted Lilly in on the deal…..
This one still has me scratching my head
I love how bad deals can be covered by prospects. Shoot, I dont even know if the other guys are still in the system.
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
by truelinkfence on Sep 25, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
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