2003...Eight Years Later or Catching Hell Will Give Me Nightmares

They used a couple of fan’s videos…I wish I had found a way to get my video to the director. I’d love to put it on YouTube but the MLB gods will surely smite it.

Some of the crap that people said . . . and one jackass smiling 8 years later about the garbage that he pulled.

Nice.

I always think back to the A-Gon double play ball that could have been.

Sigh.

I got chills during that last scene when they simulated Bartman pulling his hands away and Moises making the catch btw.

Sigh.

that said jackass is so proud to be part of the documentary, when Bartman politely declines. He, jackass, seemed oblivious to his portrayal like so many reality goons of today. Bartman’s dignity since that night is impressive.

I really liked the part that said Bartman was the only one with honor and he was the perfect guy for this. Because it could have happened to anyone, but he handle it with class.

I’ve always hate the guy that actually came up with ball, because he was actually hoping for a Cub loss to sell the ball for more money.

but anyone who felt the air go out that ballpark the moment the play happened was not imagining it, I think everyone felt it even the players. Gonzalez failure to field the two hopper, Dusty’s failure to go out to the mound after Pierre reached base.

I do feel awful for Bartman, I think the documentary was able to convey the animus aimed at Bartman that I certainly didn’t realize at the time was as strong as it was.

and saw something that said Bartman wanted this to happen. Then it shows him waving at the camera during another foul ball.

What did that mean I got confused.

I thought the show was kind of showing him as the victim but for that scene it said he wanted this o happen.

If any body has any insight on that part of the show. I am going to try to find this show on the web and watch the whole thing.

Very interesting that he was trying to get on camera during the sixth inning, and he really stood out in that shot for how many people were in it.

I wonder where Bartman is tonight and if he had any desire to watch this. It really made my sympathy for him go to a whole new level.

Steve might have continued to live in blessed anonymity.

On related matters, it was disgusting to see that lout brag eight years later about throwing beer at Bartman. Also, I don’t know if it was mostly the result of Gibney’s editing, but the film does show many fans at and around the ballpark going over the top in their reactions.

Viewers with no special attachment to the Cubs prior to watching this movie certainly won’t be queuing up in the donor line anytime soon to Bleed Cubbie Blue.

“5 more outs, finally! As soon as this is over, let’s buy our plane tickets”

then I sat there in stunned silence for many hours.

and is living his life to the fullest. Hey when we win the WS next year he can come and sing the 7th inning stretch.

I never blamed the fan for anything. I blamed the mental mindstate of the players, Alex Gonzalez, and the lack of common sense by Dusty Baker in that series. Baker had to get Prior out of there after the first run scored.

Regardless if the Cubs ever win the World Series, 2003 will always be a tough pill to swallow. I do think however, that the Marlins were a better overall team – and that they were better managed than the Cubs in that series. Baker wasn’t as horrible as many say here, but he certainly deserves some blame for his decisions in that series. Sadly, when I think of 2003, I think of the following year — which we certainly had ALL the talent to win that year, and the total lack of leadership when it was needed the most.

I feel sorry for his family. Also, I wish they would go charge him with something – throwing a beer at someone has to be against the law. So I am sure he feels great today because odds are he is hanging out with his other DBAG friends laughing it off.

I am thankful to not know that loser.

of that Wood home run. End result aside that is up there as my best Cubs memory ever.

That moment was the angriest I’ve ever been watching a baseball game, in person or on TV. Were it not for my wife stepping in front of the television – and threatening divorce – I would have thrown an unopened bottle of champagne through it.

That game and the collapse of 2004 has left me scarred. Back in 2007 and 2008 I did not watch, listen to, or follow online any of the playoff games because I was afraid of them blowing it. When they did, it only served to heighten my skepticism and pessimism. Now I’m at the point where I still won’t watch the Cubs in the playoffs unless they’re one out away from the pennant and up by at least five runs.

But I don’t blame Steve Bartman. I blame Alou and Gonzalez and Dusty and Prior. In fact I think it says a lot about the character and courage of Bartman that he didn’t follow in the footsteps of Donnie Moore. A lesser person might have taken that path, but Bartman has much more to live for than an impulsive act some eight years ago.

for your last sentence alone.

And I don’t know if this is due to youthful ignorance or what, but the hate that was directed to him was remarkable.

I’m not sure why but I never considered him to be the reason the Cubs lost. Did his interference (which I would contest to this day should have been called but that’s for another time/thread) affect the atmosphere of the ballpark? You bet. But there were so many other factors into why the Cubs lost that game.

I just hope for his sake (and all Cubs fans, so we don’t have to be reminded of him and 2003) that they win sooner rather than later.

…I know the ending. I’ve never, ever blamed Bartman. I’m not sure who should, but, someone owes that man an apology. It was just one of those baseball deals. Moises Alou is an idiot. First he said he coulda caught it…then he couldn’t have…then he coulda again…he doesn’t know. Yet, there was always game 7…and that one was worse yet.

I turned off the TV after that. I may not be Nostradamus, but you could see the team winding tight all series and you heard the ‘sproing’ when everybody went for the ball instead of letting Alou have a crack at it.

Yeah, I’ll say it, if I’m in that seat and I see it’s close enough for a Cub to have a shot at it, no way in hell I’m reaching for it. I’m covering my head. I can get a baseball any time, a World Series appearance is a different subject. Of course, you get TV time for catching a foul ball, don’t you?

A lot of BoSox / BillyBuck stuff in there? What’s that? Different story, totally different story. That happened on the field, exclusively.

So there’s different camera angles, eh? Always thought Alou would have caught the ball but the kids hands were above the top of the wall, not past it on the field side of the wall.

Too bad it went that way. And there were others there waiting to do the same. Maybe others will learn from this in the future, especially if it could negatively affect their team. Unfortunately this night, there was no home field “advantage”.

Nothing can be changed now but MMA42 does bring up an interesting thought on karma. It too believe in that as much as in the moment and in the successive moments, hours, days afterward. Momentum…..that’s huge. Most can’t explain how it affects a player, most will try though. I can’t explain how it works but I’ve seen on both sides of it as a player many times, both in baseball and hockey. One play, one event, one action can significantly change the approach and mindset of the players in the succeeding plays.

Oh, BTW MMA42 don’t fret you’re not an “English” major. If we had to be that to write a fan post, 98% of the fan posts would not be allowed. Good write up anyway. So how’s the world of cooking going for you? Takes a special talent. People think its easy it’s not, especially if you want to be one of the better chefs.

1. I thought there was way too much of Bill Buckner. I guess the director had to do something to stretch it out to fit a two hour TV slot or something, but I was expecting a film about Bartman/the Cubs, not about Bartman and Bill Buckner.

2. I didn’t remember how ugly the scene was at the time. I didn’t remember the whole stadium chanting “asshole, asshole.” That’s disgusting. It’s a freaking FOUL BALL. Granted, it was all started because of FOX’s constant replaying of the play, but still. And the fan who said something to the effect of “put a 12 gauge in his mouth and pull the trigger” is a danger to society. What kind of psychopath says that?!

3. I really, really wish that the director would’ve acknowledged the fact that Cubs fans don’t blame Bartman. I live two blocks from Wrigley and have been to countless Cubs games… I have never met one single fan who actually blames Bartman at all.

4. I would’ve liked to see more player perspective than Eric Karros and Moises Alou. Not sure why he chose those two and only those two.

5. The salesman they showed a few times – the one who proudly recalled his encounter with Bartman, where he went down 15 rows and cussed him out then threw a beer at him – is a jackass. The guy was smiling about this. What a moron. Fans like him give Cubs fans a bad name.

6. Finally, if Steve Bartman blames one person for this whole thing becoming what it has, that person should be Moises Alou. If Alou doesn’t freaking flip out after not catching the foul ball, this never happens. If he walks away, FOX probably shows the replay a couple times, but that’s it. I’ve always felt that his overly aggressive and stupid response to the play is what triggered the whole thing. I always liked Moises, but he’s got no one to blame but himself for that play being his legacy.

it’s amazing to me that Steve Bartman has managed to go this undetected for so long. With social media where it is today, with the advent of sites like pipl.com and so forth, it’s incredible that no one seems to know anything about this guy.

Earlier in the game a foul pop behind the plate was interfered with and cost Bako a chance to grab it. I was very upset at the time, but Bako did not make a scene. Prior DID get the guy out, but I think he had to throw several extra pitches. Maybe if Bako had protested at the time, it might have sent a message to the fans to give “our guys” a chance to catch a foul pop. I DO blame Baker more than anyone. It was obvious the team was very tight tight after the Bartman play, and it would have shown leadership to bring the infield together on the mound and settle eveyone down. I’d also have Borowski warming to start the inning, since Prior had a very high pitch count starting the 8th.

too many bad memories….I’m sure I’ll check it out some day though.

The documentary I thought was absolutely well done.

Perfect description.

It could have been a 20 minute show IMO. I couldn’t stomach most of it but you know, it’s over. The error was the biggest blow in the game. Next was leaving Prior in too long. Should have been fan interference. It made me sick but it’s over!!

A little bittersweet, obviously bitter but it did bring back great memories of hanging out around Wrigley field after the away games – especially after game 4, since I looked a lot like Matt Clement back then.

I thought the best part was the discussion of the origin of the term scapegoat and then the video clips that showed many Cubs fans acting exactly like the Israelites on the Day of Atonement a millenium ago.

Th documentary – and probably a lot of Cubs fans – ignores probably the most important player in that post-season – Josh Beckett.

Beckett pitched the CG 2-hit shutout in Game 5 and then came back and pitched 4 relief innings of 1-run ball in game 7. That was a brillant move by McKeon. And then Beckett pitched another CG shutout in Game 6 of the WS and was named the WS MVP.

Catching Hell was really rough to watch at first. Conjured up all kinds of bad memories. And then, as fast as those bad feelings cropped up, the whole thing turned cathartic. For the first time, I realized that if the Cubs could break that easily in the NLCS, that even if they did somehow win game 7, they likely would have lost in the World Series where the pressure was even greater. I think there’s something to be said about the ‘04 Red Sox team who, despite being down 0-3, said fuck it, did their thing like it was any other game, and never lost another game in those playoffs. I haven’t seen a Cubs team that could remotely do the same thing.

I also felt incredibly bad for how Bartman was treated by everyone. He became the scapegoat for poor play and mental lapses, much like Buckner became the scapegoat for the poor play by his own team. Just awful treatment of a guy, who like everyone around him, was reaching up for the foul ball, he was just the unfortunate one to touch it first. And I know I said things in poor taste back then and I regretted saying them not long after those two games. I hope everyone else regrets their words and behavior as well.

The book on that whole event feels like it has been closed though, and I don’t have nearly the same amount of angst for those games that I once did. It’s done and over and nothing will ever change it. Time to move on.

He has handled himself with such class and dignity. He has refused financial incentives, which is more than Buckner or Branca or Denkinger have done.

He has refused every opportunity to take well-deserved shots at the animals who threatened to kill him and the lynch mob in the media, led by Michael Wilbon, who should have been charged as an accessory had anything actually happened to Bartman.

He has watched Baker and Prior fall from grace and refused the opportunity to shovel dirt on their baseball graves. he has stayed quiet as most thinking fans mock Alou and Gonzalez.

Bartman, with one interview with ESPN, could make Cubs fans an even bigger joke than they already are. He could paint Chicago as Deliverance North. They would only be too happy to help.

He has kept quiet. He could have shamed us all with his words and rage.

We should feel even more shame at his silence.

at yahoo

… posted the name of the company at which Bartman works in this thread.

I can’t even begin to tell you how wrong that was. The man has worked very, very hard to preserve his privacy, and I will not have that violated at this site.

To the individual who did this — you should know better.

Apparently, ESPN wanted two hours on this. If Bartman doesn’t talk, it’s hard to fill it.

The scapegoating thing is fine, but they could have made more of an effort to talk to Don Denkinger, or the family of Donnie Moore, or even Leon Durham.

As it stands, it looks awfully Boston-centric.

and I didn’t even watch it!

completely normal reaction

Unless he was on someone’s shoulders. Have we talked about this issue yet?

Bartman had nothing to do with the colossal choke by the players and their clueless manager. He reacted on instinct and then the players and a lot of fans over-reacted.

The bad managerial decisions and the players falling apart is what’s haunting. If a single person should have taken such heat then Dusty should have been fired after the series, but there was no way in heck that Hendry would have done that.

The entire incident fits nicely within the history of Cubs choking and excuse making, but it’s sad that a fan experienced such intense criticism for being a fan at a game.