Cubs Sign Paul Maholm For One Year, $4.25 Million
by Al Yellon on Jan 10, 2012 7:53 AM CST
in Chicago Cubs News
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It hasn't been officially announced by the team yet, but former Pirates lefthander Paul Maholm is a Cub, according to his own Twitter feed:
@paul_maholm
paul maholm Looking forward to seeing the fans at Cubs convention this weekend and getting to know all the guys. It's gonna be fun.
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This was tweeted late last night, too late for me to get a story posted here on the front page; I know you've all been busy discussing it at this FanShot.
This morning, we have more information, via a tweet from Bruce Levine:
@ESPNChiCubs
Bruce Levine Breaking news; Chicago Cubs sign LHP Paul Maholm to a 1 yr 4.25 million deal with club opt 6,5 for 2013. 500k B out
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It's been speculated in many places that if the Cubs signed Maholm -- another of the starting pitcher candidates they've been stockpiling -- this would make it more likely that Matt Garza would be traded. There are rumors that the Detroit Tigers are interested; I've written before that although I think Garza should stay, if the Tigers would send Jacob Turner the Cubs' way (along, perhaps, with Drew Smyly or Nick Castellanos), I'd be fine with this.
This deal can't be announced officially until there is a 40-man roster spot open; if Maholm is going to be at the Cubs Convention Friday and be a member of the team, more moves would seem to be coming.
There's one more thing. Garza was likely to make about $9 million this year via arbitration (or settlement before arb). The difference between that and what Maholm will make this year (according to the Levine tweet) would be enough to sign Kerry Wood.
Get it done, TheoJed.
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Unless there are some easily-achievable incentives
Or unless Maholm’s shoulder is still having problems, this is an absolute steal for the Cubs. Maholm is “average,” but, for a guy who regularly is worth a couple WAR, he is “worth” a salary much closer to $10 million than $5 million.
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Agreed.
Very good signing, and if he has a good year, it’s also below-market for 2013.
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note; Epstein/Hoyer continue the trend of 'underpaying' for WAR value while Hendry overpaid
Volstad is arb eligible and equivalent to Zambrano’s payroll difference. Travis Wood under control and DeJesus another under WAR FA signing.
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
I'm a big fan of this signing
and while I like Garza, trading him for Turner and Castellanos would be insane (in a good way), especially if it meant having the cash to then sign Kerry Wood.
With all of these moves, it really seems like the Cubs are going to have a lot of cash on hand in 2013, or beyond really. Is that assumption correct?
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by Craig in South Bend on Jan 10, 2012 8:02 AM CST reply actions
Sure appears that way... and the 2013 FA class offers some very good pitching
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
"freeing $ for Wood"
If this is indeed true, that is really scary to me.
The Cubs payroll now is around $105 M. If they need to free up money to bring back Wood… that isn’t a good sign.
I am all for fiscal sanity in handing out contracts especially during a rebuilding period. However, my hope for the coming years is that the team will assemble a good base of young talent, then, perhaps as soon as a year from now, hit the FA market to fill some needs. This could have them competing as soon as 2013 or so.
If though, the team’s payroll is going to hover around $100M, then it will be much tougher.
Big Caveat, this does look like simple arithmetic gymnastics by a sportswriter, but…
Eamus Ursuli!
The reason I mentioned Wood...
… is that like you, I don’t think $4m to sign him should be a big deal.
Based on the money difference between Maholm and Garza (if Garza is traded), signing Wood should be a no-brainer.
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When you are rebuilding you have to reduce the budgets
Note, expectations must incorporate a loss of revenue as discussed here with a rebuilding/youth oriented roster.
I think $100M is a line where trading Garza also incorporates a hopeful return of Soriano. I think Wood is signed for $3-3.5M with a team option of $500K for 2013. The $4.25 plus $3.5 is $7.75 (or savings of $1 including the cost of minimum salaries if Turner makes the 25 man) . Trading Soriano moves the bar between $3-$5M depending on the deal, figure $3M in annual savings.
This brings the payroll down to $101M. The final savings might come from finding a deal for Byrd, though that might be augmented by any Cuban FA acquisitions.
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
Can I get the pro's and Cons of trading Garza.
He seems to me like a good fit for the nest 8-10 years why risk it on a prospect?
The next two years are cost-controlled.
So for the next 2 years, Garza has true value.
After that, you’re going to be spending ~$18MM on Garza. At that point, he’s more or less fungible. You could sign a Hamels-Cain-Greinke for that. Or, frankly, Garza again.
Plus, you’d have the 3 top prospects you got for Garza in January 2012.
And, you’d have the $18MM you didn’t spend on Garza’s 2012-13.
So look at Garza’s next 2 years, and say to yourself – what are those years truly worth to the Cubs org? Is this team going to compete in 2012? No, it is not. In 2013? Maybe – at which point the aforementioned Greinke-Cain-Hamels are on the market.
At this time, Theo and Jed are letting the market come to them. They know that NYY and DET want Garza badly. If someone meets their sky-high demands, they’ll happily cash in the asset.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jan 10, 2012 9:54 AM CST up reply actions 10 recs
Rec'd
This is the kind of truly informative stuff that the major media never seems to get around to explaining to us yokels.
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
by NobodySpecial on Jan 10, 2012 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
Rec'd
the only risk in that plan is that there isn’t an available free agent pitcher of Garza’s skill and age in 2 years when we are looking to add one. Top of the rotation starters are often extended before they have a chance at the open market.
And if they trade Garza, they need 2, not 1
Unless you massively project McNutt, there aren’t any 1-2 quality starters on the MLB roster or in the minor league system above Peoria right now.
Ater reading this...
"We continue to want Kerry back in Chicago, and we’ve offered him a substantial raise and we certainly hope it gets done," he said.
I don’t think it’s the money. I think it’s Wood wanting to hang around longer.
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On the contrary, it's the money. But I don't think it's because it's for him
Woody has earned enough in his career to last a lifetime, I expect the money he makes is mostly going to charity, for which he can do much more with 4 mil than he can with 1.5 or whatever he made last year (i think it was 1.5 mil).
"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck
Follow me on the twitter: @DJFreddie10 . I like to talk sports
I think you're both guessing.
We have no idea whether Kerry wants more years, and let’s not sanctify him to the point where we figure he only wants a raise for charity’s sake.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
In the early process of building this program, they're allocating more of the budget toward amateur talent.
And building the proper organization… meaning adding more scouts, coaching, video analysis, facilities, etc.
This is a true long-term commitment toward building a winning organization. Something that has never happened around here.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Given the new limits on amateur talent spending
…that rings a little false. Ricketts has said the overall baseball budget will be about the same this season as last, and last year it was $180-200M. Even if you massively increase scouting and facilities, that’s a lot of money leftover.
No, they start this year
After this year the limits change based on how good or bad your team is. This year everyone gets the same limits.
Does the $105M include the money for Z
Does the $105M include the money for Z and any others that we are paying to not play here? I can’t remember off the top of my head.
I mean if the budget is $150M (or whatever) and they spend $110 on MLB payroll, plus $15-20 in cash out to other teams. Plus another $20 on the draft and international signings (I’m thinking Soler, since everything else is capped now) then I’m fine with it. We all know this is a down year or two. As long as the MLB payroll jumps back up when we need it to in order to field a competitive team, I have no issues.
I do include the money for Z
That also includes the $5M due Pena in 2012
Eamus Ursuli!
Great contract!
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I just got home from work.
Nap? Yes or no.
I have a sense something wild might happen. As wild as a Matt Garza throw to a base.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Nap
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 10, 2012 8:31 AM CST up reply actions
Well, of course YOU'RE going to say that....
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 8:41 AM CST up reply actions
The extra hour I got to sleep in this morning rocked
Plus Garza being possibly traded isn’t exciting enough to lose sleep over.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 10, 2012 8:44 AM CST up reply actions
I'd like to take a nap...
You’re not going to lose sleep because you’re MCF…
I realize you’d be more stressed if it was Geo ;-)
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 8:46 AM CST up reply actions
I'm in the same boat
I think I’m hitting the bed and hoping nothing happens till I wake up.
They have two liter bottles now? To think I spent all that time demanding a liter!
Okay the last line of this post makes zero sense for a couple of reasons
How the hell do we NOT have the money to have Garza AND Wood?
If trading Garza is the only way we have enough money to get Wood, then we were COMPLETELY mislead about what the payroll for this year’s team would be. This was a team that talked about being willing to spend if we wanted to, now we’re lead to believe we have to cut payroll even more if we want to bring Wood into the pen?
Secondly, if I had to choose between Kerry Wood and Matt Garza, I choose Garza every time. I trade Garza for insane prospects like what has been rumored from Detroit, but Al, it almost seems like (channeling Bruce here) that you want to trade Garza at any cost, in order to “afford” Wood.
Maybe that’s just how I read it, and you meant only to “get it done” if we get a great return for Garza, but either way, I have a problem with Levine’s tweet.
by Nunyabidness on Jan 10, 2012 8:06 AM CST reply actions 4 recs
agree completely
Like I said above, this is most likely just a sports writer playing with numbers, but, if there is any truth to this, the Cubs future looks tougher than most of us were hoping for.
Eamus Ursuli!
Not at all.
You’re right that I mean “get it done” ONLY if you get a great return for Garza.
Also, as I noted above, $4m for Wood should NOT be a big deal given the payroll numbers the Cubs should have. However, if Garza is traded, that would certainly free up enough extra cash to sign Wood and they’d have no reason not to.
Make more sense now?
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However, if Garza is traded, that would certainly free up enough extra cash to sign Wood and they’d have no reason not to.
Make more sense now?
Not really, because I have a problem with needing to free up money for Kerry. That would seem to indicate a budget much smaller than we originally thought
by Nunyabidness on Jan 10, 2012 8:28 AM CST up reply actions
The sunk costs
May be coming off the books this year?
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
As well as possible big money spent on international players
There are, what, 5 legit Cuban guys still waiting to be declared FA? And the oldest one is only 26 in Cespedes?
I'm kind of wondering the same thing...
What if they’re putting away $20 million to pay towards Soriano’s 2013-14 seasons and opening up even more payroll for those years? If that’s even possible financially in a sports organization, it may not be a bad investment.
That would be a fantastic investment
Maximize the down year loss and hold it to one year.
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
by NobodySpecial on Jan 10, 2012 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
I see your point
… but mine is, if $4 million is holding up signing Wood, this would free it up.
I’m not exactly sure what the major league payroll is going to be — you’d think it would be around the same size as last year.
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But with what the team would be in 2012 if they trade Garza, why sign Wood for $4M?
It’s not like a RH setup guy will save them from a lot of losses. Sentiment is all well and good, but $4M seems like a lot to spend for memories.
Stopped clocks are right twice a day
I agree with almost everything nunya’s written here. If the Cubs need to trade Garza to sign Kerry Wood — and if indeed some people want that to happen, even in an indirect way — God help us.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 10, 2012 9:13 AM CST up reply actions
The only thing I can think of is this is there war of saying we are REBUILDING
I havent had much hope for next year but the way it sounds is next season will be about drinking beer and seeing the other teams players
thats a steal...only 4.25 mill?!
the cubs are def going to spend a lot more $$$ in 2013, haha
One year huh?
Didn’t have time to read the 214 comments in the fanshot but times have really changed around here. No backloaded inflated contracts for too many years?? One year for this price is absolutely a bargain. I really can’t believe we got this done for one year, which is almost unheard of with labor relations in MLB.
I also would have to resign myself to believe Garza is Goneza. If not, where does the roster spot come from….does anyone have a guess?
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 is going into the Hall of Fame!!
Also club option for next year
That is also extremely affordable
by Nunyabidness on Jan 10, 2012 8:10 AM CST up reply actions
The salary was not announced last night
I think that came out this morning.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 10, 2012 9:30 AM CST up reply actions
Stockpiling pitchers
Because so many of them are so awful. But, also, to trade at deadline for prospects if any of them have a good first half. See what Seattle did with Doug Fister last year.
Where is Mick Kelleher when we need him?
it doesnt matter Nunya...
they are so awful, but when they have a great year the cubs will simply trade them for prospects. do you not realize how major league baseball works nunya?
So i you can give you can take it.
by epsilon on Jan 10, 2012 8:13 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sounds like what a small-market team does
Christ.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 10, 2012 9:14 AM CST up reply actions
you're right we should've been big market
and given Maholm 3 yrs 27 million
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 10, 2012 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
True but if JH was doing this and we were questioning it
We’d be sheep
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 10, 2012 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
I'm sorry, the correct response is, "Sheeple"
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
Clever, DCF
And it ignores my point, but … hope the basement is warm this winter.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 10, 2012 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
basement?
shows how ignorant you are NBF! No basements in Florida. HA!
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 10, 2012 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
Not because these new pitchers are awful. It's because we had no depth in our organization for the rotation.
Now we’re building a lot of options and can afford to deal Garza in the short term for TOR pitching prospects who may not be ready yet in 2012.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
But aren't they better than college of pitchers who started every 5th game last year?
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by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 10, 2012 8:33 AM CST up reply actions
"would be enough to sign Kerry Wood. Get it done, TheoJed."
Why?
I like Kerry Wood, I do but don’t you think $5 million would be better spent on someone who is going to contribute beyond next year?
Signing someone for sentiments sake is not smart business, and that’s not what Epstein and Co. are about. Get with the times, this ain’t your typical Cubs organization any longer.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jan 10, 2012 8:19 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
This.
TheoJed aren’t in the “making popular decisions with the fans” business.
However, one could argue that a younger team could benefit from Wood’s leadership and younger pitchers could benefit from his mentoring. If that’s something that is valued by management, then it makes sense.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
This is one of the reasons I like them
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 10, 2012 8:36 AM CST up reply actions
I do agree about the leadership...
But if the choice is between Wood or Soler, I’ll take the highly touted prospect all day.
With a payroll currently
at 100 mil or so, we shouldn’t have to choose between the two.
We are in a full-blown rebuilding year, but still have one of baseball’s highest ticket prices. I don’t care what the long-term value of Kerry Wood is. If they want me to pay 80 bucks to sit in the bleachers, I want a player I really like and respect to cheer for. For me, that’s Kerry Wood.
I am a big Epstein/Hoyer fan, and if their numbers are so gospel that they won’t do a deal like this, then fine. But don’t expect me or a lot of other fans to pay the Rickett’s asking price to come see them play when they will lose a Cubs icon like Kerry Wood over a million bucks or so. This isn’t a sound long-term decision, I get that. If we were the Pirates, and we needed all the money we could get, then fine, we don’t get Kerry Wood back for nostalgia or mentoring of whatever.
by tomas21 on Jan 10, 2012 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This IS a sound long-term decision.
You just don’t think it is because you’re letting emotions get in the way.
I’d much rather build for the future than pay a past star to stick around the team/city. Offer Kerry what we consider is a fair offer – if he doesn’t like it, that’s fine. Let him know there will always be a spot for him on the Cubs once he retires and leave it at that.
There are so many things the Cubs can spend money on to improve long term, and although I’d love to have Kerry back, he isn’t one of those things.
If this is a total rebuild, then Wood has no part in it
I wanted him back, but it’s obvious what Theo and Jed are doing, although I disagree with the extent to which it appears they’re pursuing it.
At this point, the desire to keep Wood is more about emotion than practicality.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 10, 2012 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
WE CAN WALK AND CHEW GUM AT THE SAME TIME.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 10, 2012 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
This isn't Trenton
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't say
signing Wood was a good long-term decision. He isn’t going to be here when we’re good again.
But it isn’t harmful to the long term plan. He isn’t going to make a significant amount of money. He isn’t going to be locked up to a long-term committment. He isn’t taking the place of someone who needs the time in the majors who IS part of the long-term plan.
He is a fan favorite. For a team that might lose 90 games for the 3rd time in a row, and who is charging one of the league’s highest ticket prices, it DOES matter. Someone has to pay to come see this team next year, or they won’t have the payroll to land players when we are ready to bring them in. I don’t know how many people buy tickets to see Wood, but I do think there are a fair amount of people who would be turned off by not signing him over a mil or so difference, and those people very well could stay away. I know I personally won’t buy a ticket next year if they don’t, and I usually go to a game or two a year.
I follow the team online and in the paper with my head. But I go to games with my heart.
by tomas21 on Jan 10, 2012 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
⬆THIS⬆
1000 times rec’d. You’re not the only one who feels this way, and it could cost the Cubs far more than they “save” by letting Wood go in reduced ticket sales.
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Your allowing your sentimentality to get in the way of a reasoned debate.
The amount of fans that Kerry Wood brings through the turnstiles is negligible at best.
Bringing him back for the sake of the fans is again the mindset that got this organization into the mess it’s in. Look to the future.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
You think it's negligible?
One poster here expressed this opinion. It already has 4 recs. I doubt he’s alone in feeling that way.
We’re not talking about putting together an entire team this way. We’re talking about ONE guy who could
- help the bullpen
- be good in the clubhouse
- sell a few tickets
What’s wrong with that?
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No one is going to be tickets to a game on the off chance that they'll see Kerry Wood pitch one inning
by Nunyabidness on Jan 10, 2012 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
That's not what we're talking about.
Of course no one does that.
The point is, he’s a popular player. If the perception is that Theo & Jed basically threw away a popular player who is also useful to the team and good in the clubhouse, some casual fans might not spend their money on tickets in general, not to any one specific game.
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I think not bringing back a popular player to pitch one inning at a time
Is a really dumb reason for the fans to stop buying tickets.
The team is going to be bad with or without him. Stop buying tickets because of the lack of overrall talent on the team. Stop buying tickets because there aren’t any players you actually want to watch play. Hinging that decision on a middle reliever is silly
by Nunyabidness on Jan 10, 2012 3:22 PM CST up reply actions
Dumb or not
… it very likely will happen. Not everyone is as understanding of what Theo & Jed are trying to do as we are.
Those fans — and they represent a big chunk of the fanbase — could be coaxed to come to the park by the presence of a popular player. Whether you agree with that notion or not, it does exist.
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by Al Yellon on Jan 10, 2012 3:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Whether you agree with that notion or not, it does exist.
You THINK it does. I happen to think it’s not nearly as big a pull as you’re making it to be
by Nunyabidness on Jan 10, 2012 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
Agree to disagree, then.
Is this an enormous thing? No.
But it does exit.
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A bullpen arm....
you’re telling us the casual fans will buy tickets because of a guy in the bullpen…who might make an appearance in 40 or 50 games MAX…and for one inning when he does get into a game.
You must think this “big chuck of the fanbase” is really, really stupid.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 10, 2012 3:50 PM CST up reply actions
Ok
I do not buy a ticket on the chance that I’ll see Kerry Wood. I am also a huge fan of our new management and trust them to build a winner.
HOWEVER, if they don’t bring back Kerry Wood I will not buy a ticket to a game this year. It will tell me that they don’t care at all about winning this year, and they don’t care what the casual fan thinks. In general the latter is fine if they are building a winner, but if they aren’t winning games during this transition they should really think about appeasing the casual fan if it doesn’t get in the way of their long term plans. There is no reason to alienate fans over a million or two dollars for a fan favorite who has been loyal to the team.
He is good, he is asking for a short term commitment, and he is a favorite of many, many fans. He took a well, well below market contract because finishing his career with the Cubs. This shouldn’t be hard. This is one negotiation they don’t need to “win”. Pay him his market rate, get him to the convention, and make people happy so they buy tickets.
It’s funny, I’d be willing to bet many of those in the camp that we don’t need Wood and that we need to be singularly focused on the long term don’t even go to games. They are certainly entitled to their opinion, but they aren’t entitled to tell the the paying customers what they should want.
by tomas21 on Jan 10, 2012 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Man.
I do not buy a ticket on the chance that I’ll see Kerry Wood. I am also a huge fan of our new management and trust them to build a winner.
HOWEVER, if they don’t bring back Kerry Wood I will not buy a ticket to a game this year.
Umm……
It will tell me that they don’t care at all about winning this year, and they don’t care what the casual fan thinks.
Ok, first of all, how does signing Kerry Wood show they “care about winning” Exactly how many games do you think Kerry is going to win us? I also have to take issue with this notion that OF COURSE the casual fan wants Kerry back and not signing him means Theo DOESN’T CARE.
I guess my first question is “do you REALLY trust what Theo and Jed are doing in this rebuild?” If the answer is no, then obviously this is less about Kerry not resigning and more about you being pissed at the direction the club is going in and finding something, ANYTHING to complain about.
If the answer is yes, then I don’t understand why this particular move is the one you can’t trust their judgement on. It is incredibly inconsequential in the long run. EXCEPT it may go against whatever plan Theo and Jed have for the team. Maybe they think this year would be better spent getting a look at someone they aren’t sure on. Maybe…MAYBE Kerry isn’t looking for as short or cheap a contract as some of you think he is. Maybe Kerry knows he has his diehards on his side and is going for the gold. No one knows what’s going on in the contract talks.
Also, you aren’t “the average fan.” Neither is Al, neither are most of the guys on this site. You’re clearly a huge fan of Kerry’s. So is Al, so is all six of the people who rec’d your first comment. How can you possibly say that the “average fan” is going to get NEARLY as bent out of shape as you are, if the Cubs don’t bring back a dude who’s going to pitch a couple of times a week one inning at a time.
If I can’t speak for the average fan, then neither can you.
by Nunyabidness on Jan 10, 2012 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
It hurt, but I had to do it...
…rec’d!!
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I didn't say
signing Wood showed they cared about winning. The moves they have made thus far tell me they don’t care about winning THIS YEAR. I don’t have a problem with that, if it makes the team better in the long run.
My point is if they aren’t trying to win this year AND they are going to continue to charge such high prices, they ought to throw a bone to the people that come see games. If people that come see games want to see Kerry Wood pitch, and it isn’t going to hinder the long term plan, then they shouldn’t squabble over an inconsequential amount of money.
If Theo and Jed thought bringing Wood back on a one year deal harmed the long term interests of the Cubs, as you suggest it might, then they wouldn’t have already offered him a deal and a raise. So it’s over money. My opinion is they shouldn’t allow that to happen for this one player.
I don’t have an issue with you Nunya, but I have observed on countless occasions that you are relentless in message board arguments, and will continue these kinds of things on until the right margin starts to truncate the messages. I have no interest in doing so. I have my opinion and I’ve stated it as clearly as I can. You have a differing opinion and I respect it, I just see it a different way. I just don’t want to keep going back and forth.
by tomas21 on Jan 10, 2012 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Um....
HOWEVER, if they don’t bring back Kerry Wood I will not buy a ticket to a game this year. It will tell me that they don’t care at all about winning this year,and they don’t care what the casual fan thinks.
emphasis mine.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 10, 2012 5:35 PM CST up reply actions
ಠ_ಠ
…if they don’t bring back Kerry Wood I will not buy a ticket to a game this year.
That’s your line in the sand? LOL.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 10, 2012 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
wow just wow....speechless......
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
as long as there's a small chance of seeing wood throw 12 pitches
i’ll keep coming!
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 10, 2012 5:09 PM CST up reply actions
How about when
I laugh at you for stuff you do or don’t spend money on, you can laugh at me. Until then go fuck yourself.
Come on that's pretty harsh
I thought this was a family friendly site?
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Things I don't spend $ on...
1. Twilight Books and Movies
2. Coldplay Music
3. Condoms
4. Barq’s Root Beer (I’m an A&W guy)
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 10, 2012 5:32 PM CST up reply actions
I also find this pretty funny
“one person said he felt that way, and it already has 4 recs.”
So 5 people feel that way.
by Nunyabidness on Jan 10, 2012 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
It must be correct
they’ve formed a sentimental consensus.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
That's not a good argument considering the organization
has already pissed off a well loved, hof 2nd baseman.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
I don't think the organization has done any such thing...
I think Hendry and he butted heads, but I don’t think extends beyond those two.
Not hiring him this year does not mean they didn’t treat him fairly.
I'm sorry if I didn't specify
This organization under Ricketts pissed off Sandberg. And yes, he was upset to the point where the new brass did feel it necessary to let him know that he wouldn’t be getting the job following Quades firing even though it seems he never had a shot in the first place.
My point is, there wasn’t a backlash in attendance when Sandberg didn’t get the job when they hired Quade. Many of us were upset but I didn’t here anyone say they were boycotting because of the way Sandberg was treated.
Again, that’s my point with Wood, they are not going to have a drop in attendance if Wood isn’t signed. That’s preposterous.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
What's wrong with that?
Because he’s a non-asset. Theo and Jed go out of their way to purge payroll. They are stockpiling assets and they are (regardless of what Jed says) making chess moves to setup for future trades. And after all of that you want “TheoJed” to sign Kerry Wood.
Again, if you think about what Theo and Jed are doing, they are not making any moves that revolve around the 2012 season except for whom they can acquire through trades when it comes time to trade the assets that they have begun to acquire.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
then how do you
derek jeter scoring a 3 year $51million deal in 2010. is he worth 17 million a year? or do you think he’s a fan favorite? if he was on any other team he would have been retired. he’s Mr Yankee. Wood to me and to most of us is the equivalent of MR cub. ASSUMING he’s not asking for anything too outrageous pay the man for all he’s done for the club and community and let him retire a cub. he still has experience and something in the tank(otherwise the reds and phillies wouldn’t request his services) so to say he’s a waste…get real. if that were the case reed johnson should be off the team too as he doesn’t fit ‘the mold’. wood isn’t taking up a spot, and I haven’t seen a scenario where theojed needs an extra $4mill to acquire someone else.
by RIP Slim on Jan 10, 2012 7:50 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
umm they are the Yankees
Have you noticed the size of their payroll? I’d say that is a great reason
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 10, 2012 9:01 PM CST up reply actions
another example
ken griffey Jr.
why did Seattle re-sign him after he was clearly out of gas? fan favorite. he played about as often as Kerry wood did.
by RIP Slim on Jan 11, 2012 2:33 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
money is not the issue here
its that the Yankee’s are overpaying because hes a fan favorite,rather than that he’s the best the Yankees can get at SS.
by RIP Slim on Jan 11, 2012 2:10 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
Derek Jeter is going to the Hall of Fame
Kerry Wood is not.
by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2012 8:08 AM CST up reply actions
not part of the argument
who cares if he is or isn’t he’s still a fan favorite.
by RIP Slim on Jan 11, 2012 11:57 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
It actually IS part of the argument
Because you’re arguing about other teams signing fan favorites and overpaying to do it.
I’m explaining to you, that they aren’t JUST overpaying for a fan favorite. They are also overpaying because the dude’s gonna be in the hall some day
by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2012 3:51 PM CST up reply actions
Plus, Jeter is an everyday player.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
see ken griffey
post. he wasn’t an everyday day player and was signed as a fan favorite
by RIP Slim on Jan 11, 2012 11:59 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
And look what they paid him:
$2 MM in 2009 and $2.35 MM in 2010. But, reading your earlier post, I think we’re in agreement here. I’d like to see Woody back but at a reasonable amount.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Griffey was 39 and 40 years old when those contracts were signed.
Wood is 34, will be 35 in June.
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which clearly
he had nothing left. they just signed him to play out his career where it started. I’d also like wood to do the same
by RIP Slim on Jan 13, 2012 8:21 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
TheoJed have said
… that Wood has value in the bullpen and as a clubhouse leader.
Those are worthwhile things to have in any season.
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What are they going to say "we don't want him....he sucks"?
They also said they could build around Garza…..doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
More like "we're going to build OFF of Garza"
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
they certainly could have said
we’re rebuilding this team, and don’t really have a place for him.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Jan 10, 2012 9:56 AM CST up reply actions
And that would have boosted his trade value how, exactly?
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
Whoops - looks like you were talking about Wood, not Garza
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
I'm with you.
I really don’t care one way or another on Kerry Wood. He is a good guy but he will pitch the 8th inning for a bad team. I’m not all sentimental on whether he returns or not.
Personally I wish it would just be done one way or another.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
It's partly for sentiment.
The Cubs also are short in the bullpen after trading Cashner and Marshall.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
This is the primary reason to do it.
Plus, what MVZ says below about having a veteran presence on such a young team.
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Oh Please....this is pure sentimental hogwash
they could go out and find a number of cheap relievers that would bring a “veteran presence to the clubhouse”. RoLo could bring that for a quarter of the price.
Just admit it, you want to see Wood pitch on what is going to be a very bad team fulfill your need for nostalgia.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jan 10, 2012 8:37 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not all that big on the veteran presence thing ...
but the bullpen will be pretty bad without Wood, now that Marshall and Cashner are gone. Is your argument that the Cubs will be so bad that it doesn’t matter?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Yes
My other frustration is that Al’s real excitement is seeing that enough money might be freed up by the signing of Maholm and the possible trade of Garza, so now they can go out and sign Wood?
It’s not going to matter who’s in the bullpen, they will not compete this year and Epstein and Jed know it.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
A counter argument:
If they’re going to be so bad — and they have money to spare — what’s the harm in giving $4 million to a good relief pitcher who’s been loyal and might bring in some fans?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
by elgato on Jan 10, 2012 8:50 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm glad we're no longer a team ...
who gives $136 million to players to drum up fan support. But $4 million for Kerry Wood?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Because I would actually like to see some of these end their careers...
…with a ring. Wood should go to Philly if he has any interest in that.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
He already has a ring
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 10, 2012 8:59 AM CST up reply actions
No he doesn't.
He was with the Yankees in 2010 not 2009.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I thought he got one with the yankees
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 10, 2012 9:29 AM CST up reply actions
He did not. They lost to Texas in the playoffs.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Sorry I was mistaken
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 10, 2012 9:54 AM CST up reply actions
If he'd rather stay in Chicago?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
thats his choice...
go to philly where they’ll pay him and he might win a world series…at least seriously compete
or take 2 million from the cubs and be comfortable.
So i you can give you can take it.
That's the problem this time he's not going to take 2 million
He’s going to be an expensive non-asset on a dismal team.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
But if the difference is $2 million ...
who cares? The Cubs have that money available. And it wouldn’t be a long-term commitment.
Seems like you’re making some sort of principled argument here, and I don’t really know why.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
by elgato on Jan 10, 2012 9:07 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Principled argument? No.
But I don’t understand why someone would get excited about signing a relief pitcher and telling TheoJed to “get it done” when we know what this year brings.
It’s spraying glade on a pile of dog crap and calling it potpourri.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
This is a classic BCB argument.
Me: It’s not a big deal, so why not do it?
You: It’s not a big deal, so why do it?
Beyond the fact that the Cubs bullpen without Wood would be Marmol, Shark, Russell and potentially the next generation of Caridad-Berg-Mateo …
I know that, right now, I’m not that excited to go see the 2012 Cubs play at Wrigley or on TV — even though I believe in TheoJed’s long-term strategy. Garza looks like a goner, Castro is a little harder to root for, Dempster is creaky, and nobody else set to make the 25-man (other than MAYBE Marmol, whom I expect will bounce back) is that interesting of a player.
This isn’t me saying the Cubs should go all 2006-07 and rob the future, mind you. But the guys I’m excited about (Jackson, Rizzo) are basically set to start the year in AAA. So, giving a couple extra million to Wood — who cost himself between $3.5 and $8.5 million to sign with the Cubs last offseason — makes perfect sense to me.
Now, if you don’t think going to Wrigley or watching the Cubs on TV would be more fun with Kerry on the roster, then we’re not going to agree on this entire matter (which is fine). But I think Kerry’s ability to excite some fans AND fill out a bad bullpen is worth $4 million — especially given that the Cubs have more payroll flexibility now than they’ve had in several years.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
by elgato on Jan 10, 2012 9:30 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I don't think Kid K generates that kind of fan excitement anymore.
He’s not Kid K anymore. Nobody’s going to the park just to yell sweet somethings to his ear when he sits in the pen.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
You could be right.
It’s a very difficult thing to measure, though.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
there's also an off-the-field presence that Wood brings as well
team events, promotions, etc.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jan 10, 2012 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
More power to him...as long as he wants to take another lowball....
…deal.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
The Phillies are getting old.
I wonder if their run is coming to an end. They’ll have competition in their division this year.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Halladay, Hamels and Lee are still really, really good.
You are right, though, their original cast are all getting older.
They’re still easily the class of the league, though, it would seem. Even with Ryan Howard out for the year.
And they still have some young talent, with Brown, Pence, Worley, Bastardo, et. al. More than we do, probably.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Oh, I'm not saying they're not good.
Certainly, they are contenders and likely go into the year as favorites in the NL East.
It would not surprise me if we saw signs of decline from them this year.
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Well, if Kerry is picking based on possible contention ...
he’ll stay the hell away from the Cubs.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Comnsidering the maret right now, you think Fielder would sign for 1 year with the Phillies?
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Probably not.
At this point, it wouldn’t surprise me if he took a one-year deal to go back to Milwaukee and then hit the FA market again next year.
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Milwaukee?
I would be absolutely shocked. If they had the money to do that, they wouldn’t have backloaded Aramis’ deal to the extent that they did.
Now, a 1-year deal in Texas? Maybe. But I bet he ends up in Washington or Seattle at this point.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I just don't see the Mariners spending that kind of money.
The Nats could, but I don’t think they will until Boras’ demands are lowered.
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Why not the Mariners?
They’ve been discussed as a possible landing spot for months, and they haven’t made many moves this offseason.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I dunno.
Just an impression. As you say, they haven’t made many moves, and if they were that good a fit, maybe they’d have gone after him already.
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He should sign with the Cubs
then accept a trade to Philly in July for a prospect, win a ring, and then re-sign with the Cubs for 2013 and win another ring.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Jan 10, 2012 9:58 AM CST up reply actions
I realize that the Cubs won't be a great, or probably even good team in 2012
But when all it takes is a little extra $$ to sign a guy like Wood, I think you do it. It’s one thing to have a mediocre team, but to compound it with blowing the leads you do have can be demoralizing to a young team.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
by davidalanu on Jan 10, 2012 9:05 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
RoLo could bring that for a quarter of the price.
You don’t know that. “Veteran presence” doesn’t just mean a veteran who is present.
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by Al Yellon on Jan 10, 2012 8:43 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And what has would shown you to tell you that he's a student of the game.
He’s not and never has been, he was a talented thrower that never quite grew into his potential.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Would? Wood.......Sorry.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Sentimental Hogwash?
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 8:44 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I love it!!!
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
As a Warren Zevon fan,
I think of Sentimental Hygiene.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Wood is one of the vets that should stay
You need to have some veteran players around to show the kids the right way to handle not just the on field experiences, but the off field as well. He is also well liked and respected in the clubhouse, front office and community. Wood is a guy that has battled his way back from multiple injuries to have a successful career. Say one of your new young pitchers comes up and blows out his arm in his third start, wouldn’t you want to have someone like Wood around who has been through the ups and downs to give support and advice?
And it is not all baseball related things that veterans can help young guys with. You need to remember that some of these young players really are basically kids, only out of high school or college a couple of years. Having mentors around that can teach them the proper ways to handle life on the road, and just how to be a responsible adult.
by MVZ on Jan 10, 2012 8:30 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Wood brings in more fans than just through his pitching.
He is an ambassador in the community and has brought in a lot of fans just through his charity and service to the community.
I will be pretty shocked if he is not signed. Just like Maholm can’t be announced until there is room on the 40 man I think it is the same for Kerry. There is no way Theo won’t pony up 4-5 million for what Kerry adds to the team.
就是今年！
by CubFanInChina on Jan 10, 2012 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Stronger bullpen might help young starters...
Protecting leads should help young pitchers gain confidence, but it has the additional bonus of increasing the perceived value of guys like Dempster, Wells, or Garza that might be traded at the deadline. As much as teams shouldn’t put much stake in W-L totals, it’d be much easier to move a guy with average peripherals if they have at least a .500 winning percentage.
I’d bring back Wood if he’s open to talking a deal without a no-trade clause, though I’d hope the Cubs brass would consult him before making any deals. Between his value at the deadline and the possible increase in value to our other tradable starters, it just seems like a low-risk move that could pay dividends. If they need the money to go after guys like Soler or other international prospects, I’m all for it. Unfortunately, the new CBA doesn’t allow us to simply invest savings into above-slot draft signings, and we need to stop acting like it does.
by Zachary Piso on Jan 10, 2012 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! x 1000
Coming Soon To A Stadium Near You!
A Rick-Hoy-Stein Production
"The Rebuild of 2012: And The Wait Goes On"
Wood, besides being a fan favorite, has a ton of value
He’s been consistant the last few years and hasn’t had any major injuries. I think you can expect at least 1 trip to the DL but he’s been pretty good about that. Everyone get’s banged up
The biggest thing he provides for the team is back up insurance for Marmol. If Marmol can’t handle the closer role or is so good at it that we trade him, Wood can step in. There’s nobody else on the roster I’d want in the 9th inning other than him
"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck
Follow me on the twitter: @DJFreddie10 . I like to talk sports
by Musicdude10 on Jan 10, 2012 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I really like this signing.
Though we now have a plethora of lefties in the starting rotation, I still think Maholm brings some good things to the Cubs rotation.
Word here in Detroit is that the Tigers don’t really want to trade Jacob Turner, but I think they would in the right situation (since they are a playoff caliber team right now). I’m ok now with trading Garza (as long as we get a crazy haul of top-shelf talent back) whether that be the tigers or the Yankees.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jan 10, 2012 8:24 AM CST reply actions
Isn't Volstad a lefty?
If not , then my mistake.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jan 10, 2012 8:43 AM CST up reply actions
2 pitchers out of 5
Could be a plethora.
I think 5 BCB points for using plethora
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 10, 2012 8:45 AM CST up reply actions
I'll offer up 5 more BCB points for using "plethora" withOUT prefacing it with "veritable"
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
That's more of a "cornucopia" description, isn't it?
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
That's so thanksgiving
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 10, 2012 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
Or housewarming
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornucopia
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 10, 2012 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
Eh, it's a long story
and a reference I knew no one else would get.
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
Where you going for the Shawn type references?
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 10, 2012 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
Nice thought
But that one was from my own experience.
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
This is a great deal that will hopefully work out better than the Gorzo try
Oh, yes, and ROLL TIDE!!!!
I enjoy this website because it's so interesting to see folks pole vaulting over mouse turds.
The trend continues
I am absolutely loving this trend of NON-overspending TheoJed have been doing. This is how you run a team!
Good signing.
Question I’ve been mulling: The Cubs are clearly trying to add pitching depth — and not just the RoLo/Casey Coleman variety. Trading one of our current starters makes more sense now, so … what are the chances Dempster is dealt?
I’m guessing the Cubs would have to pay some of his salary, but Dempster would have some value as a No. 3-4 starter for a better team.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
wait till midsason
it doesnt make sense trying to trade him off right now since he had a bad 2011 season.
Yeah. That makes some sense.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
My wish is that Dempster is our 5th starter...
in 2014 when the Cubs win the series.
So i you can give you can take it.
I like Demp.
But the only way that should happen is if he signs elsewhere in 2013 and then returns to the Cubs in 2014.
If he stays with the Cubs, he’s going to still cost ~$14M which is way too much for a 5th starter.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
oh amen,
my comment wasnt necessarily that we should re-sign dempster at all costs..its just that i like dempster and i’d like him to be around for the fun run after enduring all the crap.
So i you can give you can take it.
Sounds good.
How about….. bullpen coach??
I kid… kind of.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
Hitting instructor, of course.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
If Demp is pitching well at the break, he should garner interest.
Hopefully the Cubs don’t have to absorb the money in order to receive a good value in return.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
If someone has to go,
I would hope it’s Dempster.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 10, 2012 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
demps has done well with the cubs
he had a bad season and it was mainly due to bad luck. look at his FIP.
Yes, he has
but he’s not part of the future of this team. Neither is Wood.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 10, 2012 9:29 AM CST up reply actions
And the manager
leaving him in too long.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Jan 10, 2012 10:01 AM CST up reply actions
Why? What's the difference?
He’ll be 35 in May, and he’s coming off his worst statistical season since 2006. He’s on the last year of his contract and he won’t be re-signed beyond 2012.
Are you trying to build the all-sentimental team? You want Ryne to coach it? And Jody Davis on the bench?t Kerry Wood as pitching coach? Mark Grace as hitting instructor?
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Ehh... nevermind. Reading comprehension fail. Thought it said "Not Dempster."
Considering it was NBF, I jumped to conclusions. My apologies.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Not Bruce ...
most certainly does not want Ryne Sandberg to manage.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I wasn't enticed to participate in those discussions. Probably a good thing.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
me either
moments of life I couldn’t get back.
Also we don’t know if JH when he signed him to that deal said to him we’ll take care of in 2012 since you are signing this in 2011
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 10, 2012 9:54 AM CST up reply actions
they want to have 6 starters on hand
check out how they built boston for years and years. They always have 6 available starting options on the team. They’re planning for a pitching injury to happen, because they almost always do at some point. It’s smart
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 10, 2012 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
cheap signing for a slightly below average pitcher at worst
let maholm-mania begin!
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 10, 2012 8:30 AM CST via Android app reply actions
It has to be
Maholm-palooza
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
If Garza goes to Detroit
Turner has to come back, no?
What else?
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Hopefully more TOR pitching.
Maybe, we take a look at the two highky-touted Yankees minor league pitchers as another good option.
We need as many TOR pitchers in the system as we can get right now IMO.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jan 10, 2012 8:50 AM CST up reply actions
Turner is the only TOR option in Detroit
Andrew Oliver and Casey Crosby both have great stuff, but their control (and health) will make them relievers. I want Drew Smyly as the 2nd piece, but that’s probably a pipe dream.
If we're sending back a prospect of equal value
Then we might get the top pitchers we want?
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I suppose it's possible
But haven’t all the blurbs been mentioning Blake DeWitt, Darwin Barney or a big league pen arm to go along with Garza? Seems more likely to me, as it would clear up another 40 man spot.
Something like Garza/DeWitt for Turner/Smyly/filler
I haven't read anything like that.
But, I was just thinking if we really wanted Smyly, we could send back one our younger pitching prospects. Or if we really wanted their 3rd base prospect, we can send back Vitters.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Not a bad thing to have two lefties in the rotation
Considering the Reds run production is led by Votto and Bruce (two lefites), and Bruce’s splits vs LHP drops quite a bit.
However, looking at the Cardinals: Berkman and Beltran switch hit, and Freese and Holliday hit from the right side. So, they’re still gonna murder us next year.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
So question...
if Garza isn’t traded and they break Spring training with :
Garza
Dempster
Wood
Volstad
Malholm
Wells
Who is in the roation?
SUB question: is it worth Stretching Shark out now that there are a few starting pitchers to compete?
So i you can give you can take it.
Shark should pitch the
7th or 8th, depending. Hope for a good year, and flip him if he has one.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Gordon Wittenmeyer speculated that Shark could be headed to the rotation.
But, I don’t really see that happening. I think it was pure speculation on his part. Shark finally put it together last year and should stay in a similar role. Plus, he doesn’t appear to have a good enough arsenal of pitches to be a starter.
Given that we’ve moved Marshall, keep Shark in the pen.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Right.
I don’t get the “Samardzija as a starter” talk I’ve been hearing.
He was actually good as a reliever, most of the time. He could become a decent setup guy. Why keep shifting him around?
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
He did a great job last year.
And he and Russell should be a better than average duo to get the ball to Marmol.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
However, once April arrives, Marmol becomes our best trade asset.
If he gets it back together, the Cubs could really get tremendous value for him.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
If Samardzija does well enough as a setup guy
… then if Marmol is traded, Shark could be given a shot as closer.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I like Chris Carpenter's potential for the closer role.
The one really good thing Hendry left for TheoJed were a few potential late inning arms.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Agreed.
Hendry could find talented, if fragile, arms.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
IMO
Wood is most likely to move to being a long man/spot starter.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Jan 10, 2012 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
You're talking about Travis Wood, right?
I can’t see him in that role. If he’s not in the MLB rotation on Opening Day, he could start the year at Iowa.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
yes, Travis Wood
Why not? We will need another lefty in the pen to go with Russell, and I have serious doubts Maine or Gaub are that player.
I also think his upside is lowest of the 6.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Jan 10, 2012 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
Pfft.
Travis Wood has more upside than Randy Wells.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Maybe, but that's not an obviously true statement
it’s very debatable.
Also Volstad, Malholm and Wells are more entrenched as big-league starters than Wood. Given the need for another lefty in the pen, and without seeing their performances in Spring Training, I lean my way for now.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Jan 10, 2012 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
I think the question
may be moot by the end of the week anyway.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Jan 10, 2012 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
I think Volstad goes to the Pen as long man/ spot starter
He might only face righties too because he gets crushed by lefties.
2.82 FIP vs righties and 5.96 FIP vs lefties
The crazy thing
If Dempster, Wood, Volstad, Maholm, and Wells combine for ERA below 4.8 then the Rotation is much better than last year. The 2-5 starters probably averaged more than a 5 ERA.
Bill James Projections by ERA:
Demspter 3.95
Wood 3.75
Volstad 4.34
Maholm 4.22
Wells 4.24
Avg ERA: 4.1
Even if Garza Regresses , modest improvements for the rest of the starters will keep this team pretty close to 71 wins.
Suddenly
TheoJed not being more active in the Rule 5 draft makes a bit more sense. Didn’t expect the 40 man roster to be quite so full at this point.
I don't get the
Lendry Castillo pickup. At all.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
I should amend this by saying...
Perhaps not that they weren’t more active in Rule 5, but that they didn’t protect more players.
Apparently they didn't value the guys we had anyway,
Which seems par for the course in Cubs farm history. Only the old Cubs regime thought they had good players, while the rest of the league smirked.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Not to disagree entirely
Because our farm system was definitely thin, but no one lost more players in the Major League phase of the Rule 5 draft than we did (Washington also lost 2 players, no one else lost more than 1). Suggests that some teams thought we had some decent players in the minors.
It was curious that we didn't protect Flaherty.
But, the new execs didn’t value these guys, and their track record suggests they know what they’re doing.
The consensus from the top prospect sports writers was that the Cubs system had plenty of guys who would be on a major league roster, but very little impact players.
Now TheoJed are trying to very quickly build the system back up with more talented prospects.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
It's a Beautiful day in Chicago
Clear blue skies and plenty of sunshine, all courtesy of Paul Maholm.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
just walked my dog in flip-flops....I think I definitely got a touch of spring fever today
Go Cubs :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 10, 2012 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
How do you get your dog to wear flip-flops?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 10, 2012 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
lol
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 10, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
By laughing?
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
I cleaned out my car
Now my windows are open. It’s 52 degrees. Thursday high 21 and now they are calling for snow :(
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 10, 2012 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
If I had a choice between NYY and DET to trade Garza...
I would choose NYY because I think they can offer more.. I don’t like Soto’s bat anymore one bit and Montero is the #1 C prospect in the bigs. Garza for Montero, Banuelos (Solid #2-3 SP) and Bentances.
The problem is Montero is not a catcher.
Nobody thinks he could be a starting catcher at the big league level defensively.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
I was trying to keep it simple.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
Epstein wants at least
3 A prospects for Garza. Last I checked Montero, Banuelos, are Bentances are PROSPECTS. You act like they are have made it to mulitiple all-star games.
I think it's great that's what Theo wants...
Doesn’t mean that he isn’t going to be laughed off the phone, because he will.
Prospects are only prospects, yes, but they have value as well.
If that deal were feasible...
…it probably would’ve happened already.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
For people wondering about our salary situation in 2012 and 2013...
…here’s a spreadsheet I did.
Also did one for the Bears and Bulls if people are interested.
Assumes new CBA minimum-salary for players on cost-control years. Arb salary projections from MLB Trade Rumors. Obviously some moves will be made and it’s open to debate on who will be with the team and in what position.
Assumed Jackson and Rizzo start/play most of the year in the minors.
Blake "The Francise" DeWitt bats L, not R.
by ubercubsfan on Jan 10, 2012 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
Changed!
Yeah if you see any mistakes/want to make suggestions let me know.
by IOftenPanic on Jan 10, 2012 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
Also, I never get a firm answer when I try to find this out.
But places I’ve read say Pena’s whole salary was counted on 2011’s payroll, just paid January 1st.
by ubercubsfan on Jan 10, 2012 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
Not sure on that...
…the best reports I’ve read said $5M was applied this January… I’m sure someone has the link and the accurate info. I am just assuming the “worst”.
by IOftenPanic on Jan 10, 2012 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
I think you are right.
I just stumbled onto this article which is newer than the last time I checked.
Pena received $2 million December, 2010; $3 million during the 2011 season and another payment of $5 million is due in January, 2012. The $5 million will count against the Cubs’ 2012 payroll.
by ubercubsfan on Jan 10, 2012 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
With the way this breaks out.
Does this mean if Pena accepted Arbitration, would he only get a raise based on 3 or 5MM that was his 2011 salary?
by ubercubsfan on Jan 10, 2012 10:45 AM CST up reply actions
Would Scott Boras allow that happen?
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 10, 2012 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I believe that's what I read as well.
At any rate we are probably around $107M this year and likely under $75M committed for next year any way you slice it. I imagine if we start bringing in names it will be in 2013 or 2014 despite our low payroll this year.
by IOftenPanic on Jan 10, 2012 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
Bobby Bonilla
Won’t go away. Silva’s done now (I hope?)
Oh, you changed Baker to L instead of Franchise.
lol
by ubercubsfan on Jan 10, 2012 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
Think I fixed it correctly now.
Hard to do this while also avoiding my real work.
by IOftenPanic on Jan 10, 2012 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
You should probably clarify
which salaries are definitive and which are projections.
For instance, you are projecting Soto to make $4M in arb, which is almost assuredly light. He made $3M last year and his track record will suggest a raise to probably $5M.
And not that you can’t, but fwiw, Cot’s already does this.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
I but I did...
…color-coded key at the bottom. Anything in BLACK is definitive, BROWN is estimated. I used MLB Trade Rumor’s Arbitration Projections, which are the most accurate year-in-and-year-out that I’ve seen. $4M would be a 33% increase, which is probably going to be very close considering his drop in production.
Cot’s doesn’t put in projected arbitration or minimum salaries, to get a better picture of what the actual 25-man will look like, plus sometimes they include signing bonuses pro-rated, which I don’t think is how it works in baseball (football it does). Don’t quote me on that last bit, though, I could be wrong.
Jed says the Maholm signing isn’t a “precursor” to any other move, i.e. a Garza deal.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I knew someone would say that.
It only took a minute.
Still, it reports facts — i.e. something Hoyer actually said.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
those words did come out of his mouth
the question is: do we believe him?
So i you can give you can take it.
by epsilon on Jan 10, 2012 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I mean, what's he going to say in that situation?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I have a full house and I'm going all in?
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Again, this is the difference between Jed and Jim
Jim probably does make some hamfisted comment about Garza now being on the market, then sits back and watches the offers of below average A ball players roll in
by Nunyabidness on Jan 10, 2012 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
Or Hendry would
trade Garza… and then go negotiate with Maholm, knowing he needed to sign him.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
And thereby handing out a 4 year contract at $9 million or more per
by Nunyabidness on Jan 10, 2012 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
NTC! NTC!
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
Unless I'm mistaken
Doesn’t the Maholm signing have to be a precursor to another move? Otherwise, how does Maholm wind up on the 40-man roster?
They'll release Mateo.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Yes.
Jed’s statement is meant to impart that they did not specifically sign Maholm as the first domino before a trade.
If they can’t get a trade done, then someone will have to be jettisoned.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
Kerry Wood is moving on
Kaplan spoke to Kerry. They are not going to pay him what he deserves.
I hate this move. I understand it from a baseball logic perspective. But in a time a transition, a young team needs good leaders, and the Cubs fans need someone to love and respect.
Pay Kerry Wood for the honor of having him around. He’s good people. And a good reliever to boot.
-- Jerome Horwitz
by KO Stradivarius on Jan 10, 2012 10:55 AM CST reply actions
No. Just No
Pay Kerry Wood for the honor of having him around.
Pay Kerry Wood because you think he can serve a purpose on your team. No other reason
by Nunyabidness on Jan 10, 2012 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly.
Pay Kerry Wood because you think he can serve a purpose on your team.
Which is why I want him to stay.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
by katie casey on Jan 10, 2012 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
agreed, and he does serve a purpose...
…a strong leader for a young team and good reliever. The secondary benefit is he is a fan favorite and loyal to the organization and will be for life.
Kap isn't most reliable source sometimes
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 10, 2012 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
Kap's been as good as anybody lately.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
true
But that bar is set pretty low
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 10, 2012 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
ummm...
Cubs fans need someone to love and respect.
they have two: Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer for NOT signing Kerry Wood for the honor of having him around.
So i you can give you can take it.
Normally,
I’d agree with you. However, Kerry is certainly more than roster filler at this stage in his career. There’s a competitive market for his services, and the Cubs have a stated interest in keeping him affiliated with the club well past his playing career, which usually means trying to keep that player tied to the club until he retires. Pay the man.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 10, 2012 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
i'll agree with you...
but we shouldnt pay him for the honor of having him around. i’m not going to get all pissy if they give him 4 million…but i dont like the "fan"sentiment of paying him for the honor of having him around…reeks of Jim Hendry’s pungent aroma.
So i you can give you can take it.
seriously
Kaplan?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 10, 2012 2:38 PM CST up reply actions
Bruce Miles gets into the action on Kerry-gate
Bruce Miles @BruceMiles2112
Hoyer says #Cubs want Kerry Wood back and that they’ve offered him a “substantial” raise.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
there's a large gap
between substantial raise and “market rate”
they could offer wood 3 million, which is a 100% raise (certainly substantial) and the market rate for kerry’s services are 5 million, still leaving a large gap
it’s all speculation on my part, but i see room for both sides to be right on this one
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 10, 2012 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
"Substantial" had better be at least as much of a raise as they gave Koyie Hill last year....
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 10, 2012 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
It's a part of me, like bringing back Bob Howry....some things never leave you.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 10, 2012 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
At least a fan charged him on the mound. That was priceless!
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I understand...
I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Chad Fox.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 10, 2012 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
My favorite has to be David Patton
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
Ah yes...
Reminds me a little bit of Chuck Cunningham. Dispatched to the bullpen, never to be seen again, with most trying to forget that he was ever here.
Ah, Happy Days.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 10, 2012 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
This reminds me of when Kerry left after 2008.
There was a dispute as to what Kerry wanted versus what Hendry offered — something about Kerry being willing to take a 1-year deal, but Hendry saying Kerry wasn’t willing to do that.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I've been thinking the same thing.
It looks very possible that Kerry Wood could be leaving the Cubs under awkward circumstances TWICE in his career. Weird.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
we aren't getting gregg again, are we?
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 10, 2012 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
No, but if we trade Garza to the Marlins...
…we could get Jose Ceda back.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
4.25 million
this regime gets you ~190 innings of 4.00 FIP, and did it with a friendly club option
last regime paid for ~60 innings of 4.50 FIP, and did it with 2 guaranteed years
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 10, 2012 11:09 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
And that's without factoring in inflation
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
The contrast in competency...
is really pretty extreme, isn’t it?
by Damen Jackson on Jan 10, 2012 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
So, what's this lineup gonna look like at this point? Any guesses?
1. Barney 2B
2. Castro SS
3. Byrd-Jackson CF
4. Soto C
5. Soriano LF
6. LaHair-Rizzo 1B
7. DDJ-RJ RF
8. Stewart-Baker 3B
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Eh... somebody else can start that one!
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Soto won't hit cleanup.
Catchers almost never do because it disrupts the lineup when they can’t play. He won’t hit higher than fifth. Otherwise, I think it’s tough to project, because we don’t know what will happen with Soriano and Byrd. But I’d bet on DDJ leading off and Castro hitting third. There’s no way Brett Jackson hits third — unless it’s in Des Moines.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Good point on the catcher and the #4 spot.
I thought DDJ would be a leadoff candidate, but the combo of Barney and Castro did very well at the top last year.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Barney seriously declined after the ASB.
He has no power and no OBP. Here’s what I would like to see (assuming Byrd is traded and Soriano isn’t).
DDJ, Jackson, Castro, LaHair, Soriano, Stewart, Soto, Barney
I know that’s a lot of pressure on LaHair, but he might be the best cleanup option, particularly if Rizzo (as is expected) starts the season in AAA.
If, somehow, Soriano is traded and Cespedes is a Cub, he could easily move into the No. 5 spot.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Cespedes is 26 and may be seeking more than a 4 year deal.
Is that a risk worth taking? What if you have to do 6 years to get him? And he’s an unknown vs MLB pitching?
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I'm not sold on Cespedes.
I really don’t know enough about him, or what he’ll require in a contract.
That said, I still think the Cubs will make at least one more mid-priced move this offseason if the player is young and relatively cheap. Cespedes would probably fit that mold — but he might not.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
It could be great or could end up bad.
But, I think the risks outweigh the reward. Speculation is $6-8 mil/year for 6-8 years. Link
I’d rather see the Cubs invest in younger top international prospects.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I wouldn't do this yet
Our current projected lineup is too frightening to bear. Don’t torture yourself.
-- Jerome Horwitz
by KO Stradivarius on Jan 10, 2012 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
Right now?
I really doubt this is “all there is to work with”, but I would think it would go…
DDJ
Stewart/Byrd (there’s really no obvious 2 hitter unless you put DDJ here and have Castro keep leading off… in which case Byrd will be your 3 hitter…. yikes)
Castro
LaHair
Soriano
Stewart/Byrd
Soto
Barney
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
BJax makes sense hitting second ...
if they trade Byrd.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
That makes sense if you're willing to start LH-LH
Otherwise you could go to: DDJ, Barney, Castro, LaHair, Sori, Stewart, Soto, BJ (not a fan of a rookie hitting 8th in the NL, but with his plate patience, he’d be a better fit than others).
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
I'm fine with LH-LH.
The rest of the lineup is balanced. BJax hitting eighth seems like a bad idea.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Oh I agree... I like yours better.
Was just posting another option as we all kill time until ST.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
It won't be a pretty line up but the best option is
1.DDj ( gets on base)
2.Byrd (runs bases well)
3.Castro (best clutch hitter)
4.Lahair (shown patience at plate and power)
5.Soriano (did well with risp)
6.Soto (Decent power)
7.Stewart (moves up when soto doesn’t start)
8.Barney ( Might lead off against lefties)
This has to be the most exciting off-season I can remember
and it probably won’t even mean that they are even all that good this season. I do expect them to compete and not be as dumb/lazy as they have been in the past though.
I can’t even imagine what next winter will bring.
It better bring
some looser pursestrings.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 10, 2012 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
I get the feeling you're not happy about what's going on with this new front office
Could you expound on that?
by Nunyabidness on Jan 10, 2012 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
Not for you
Go back and look at what I’ve written. It’s all there for those who care.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 10, 2012 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
I was being sarcastic
I’m not shocked it confused you
by Nunyabidness on Jan 10, 2012 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
I'm surprised you didn't pick the low hanging fruit
It’s all there for those who care.
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
I'd love to see NBF and azjazzman argue.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 10, 2012 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
They don't have to prove anything to us
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
But they know everything
and say nothing. That type of paradox rivals Doc Brown’s.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 10, 2012 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
Great Scott!
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
This is heavy.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 10, 2012 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
Why are things so heavy in the future?
Is there a problem with the earth’s gravitational pull?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 10, 2012 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
What?
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 1:15 PM CST up reply actions
Make like a tree....
and get out of here!
by Nunyabidness on Jan 10, 2012 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
They ain't heavy...they're my brother.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
it will
when spending the money actually helps increase the chances of winning meaningful games
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 10, 2012 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
Hope so
Hope ensuing revenue declines the next year or two don’t screw up that theory.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 10, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
i dont think it will matter
even if revenues decline you can build a winning team with a 105 million payroll, which would leave the Cubs 30+ million in the next two offseasons to put to good use. The team also won’t need to spend on “filling in pieces around the diamond” because they’re doing it now through trade and cheap FA signings with guys who we control for multiple years.
Throw in Jackson, Castro, Rizzo as a core offense to build around and you’re basically talking about spending on a big bat at the corner OF or 3B and 2 front-end SP’s. It’s all within reason
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 10, 2012 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
You talk about signing 2 front-end SPs like it will be easy
There will be fierce competition for those guys, including the Yankees in the market for at least one. Getting 2 without doing something dumb will be very hard.
Nameless heroes
I wish it were as easy as going to a store and just buying two pitchers. Ah, well, I guess it’s always easy in fantasy BB.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 10, 2012 10:47 PM CST up reply actions
"People act like buying free agents is easy!"
/bitches when Cubs don’t buy free agents
DUMP GARZA. CORRECT THE COSMIC WRONG.
by shoemile on Jan 11, 2012 12:02 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I was just about to say the same thing.
Even for Bruce, this was an odd way to chime in
by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2012 8:08 AM CST up reply actions
When you're building a portfolio of cost-controlled talent, you don't need to break the bank on payroll.
See Rays, Tampa. A team that’s actually made it to the Word Series in the last 100 years.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
as you write that
it makes me think back to a group of posters on the board who felt another group was obsessed with winning without spending (i.e. being a small mkt team or having to win with home-grown talent, etc). I’m not sure if NBF was on either side of this debate back then (like 3 years ago i think)
but i feel like there’s a certain portion of the board that is obsessed with the idea of HAVING TO SPEND in order to win.
The best scenario is probably somewhere in the middle, where we can develop our own cheap talent and we dont need FA’s to fill out a team, but we have the resources available to make a big signing when it makes sense. This is what I think Theo-Jed are going for, but it takes time to build it
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 10, 2012 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The last 20 something years this organization has taken the "SPEND TO WIN" approach...
it’s basically sucked balls as a organizational strategy. Most of us agree you have to “spend” when it’s appropriate…but it seems this new Front Office is going to make damn sure that footing the large bills is only going to happen when the team is in a position to best leverage taking the risk on adding multiple large contracts. They seem to be building the foundation for a team that can begin to pick and choose which high priced talent they want, instead of the previous position of “OMG A GOOD FREE AGENT IS AVAILABLE…WE NEED TO GET HIM!”
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 10, 2012 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
bingo
well said
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 10, 2012 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I don't recall
the Cubs going on too many spending sprees until Sam Zell took over.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 10, 2012 10:46 PM CST up reply actions
Do you recall them trying to draft good talent and develop it?
I don’t.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2012 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
Are you trying to tell me that Mike Harkey and Hector Villanueva
weren’t perfect examples of just that?
by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2012 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
Other than Dallas Green, I don't recall them actually trying to win
They didn’t sign top line free agents or develop players. Those years of failure didn’t have some mystical, unscrutable cause.
We are finally committed to building a winning organization from the ground up
For what could be defined as the first time ever. And it goes beyond the players. It’s building the proper executive team, scouting, developing, coaching, training facilities, video analysis, and other modern things that never existed on a competitive level before in this team’s history.
The great thing about being in a large market is, the Cubs can retain their home grown talents at market prices if they choose, unlike the Rays who can’t afford to pay them and must replace them with other top young talent.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I can't agree more
And judging by the large amount of comments at this time of the year on this site, many others agree as well.
At minimum we have many unknowns going into the season. On the upside it will be nice to see new faces with hope they can contribute and grow as we all watch.
Maholm: 2nd Miss St. Bulldog Ever with Cubs
Rafael Palmeiro was the first.
Good things come to those who wait... and wait....and wait.
ISWYDT
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 10, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
Kaplan v Hoyer
Wow, Hoyer refuted both of Kaplan’s claims on Garza and Kerry today. Should be an interesting week.
-- Jerome Horwitz
by KO Stradivarius on Jan 10, 2012 12:32 PM CST reply actions
Bwahahaha!
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Just ignore Kaplan
he’s a moron.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
It's all about the ground balls.
Assuming Garza is traded (and I’m leaning toward believing he will be), here’s our projected rotation and career groundball percentages:
Demp – 46.7%
Wells: 46.1%
Maholm: 52.3%
Volstad: 50.4%
Wood: 31.4%
OK, Travis Wood doesn’t really fit. But he’s young and maybe he’ll benefit from pitching with so many other pitchers with good to great ground ball rates. In any case, it looks like Theo & Jed are trying to keep the ball out of the air. The big gamble there, of course, is that our defense will be as awful as it was last year. Hope not.
In any case, I love the Maholm deal and look forward to the roller coaster ride this rotation will probably put us on. It’s not a contending staff, but it is interesting.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
I seem to recall
In discussions about the Marshall/Wood trade that Wood had changed something and was expected to have a much higher groundball percentage in the future.
Then again, it could have been the crack I was smoking that day…
Gotta hope things change for the better.
If anything, a pitching staff like this may force Starlin to improve defensively.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Love this Maholm guy already
He tweeted Rosenthal and told him he isnt very good at math. I assume this was from his reporting of his contract.
Ha, I saw that, too.
Suddenly having so many Cubs players on Twitter is turning out to be pretty interesting.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Another
good signing by Theo. Not happy to see Paul go to y’all.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jan 10, 2012 5:03 PM CST reply actions
Theo
and Hoyer. Got yelled for that last time lol.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jan 10, 2012 5:03 PM CST up reply actions
ARE WE BECOMING THE PIRATES?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 10, 2012 5:04 PM CST reply actions
MCCUTCHEN, TABATA, AND WALKER PLEASE
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 10, 2012 5:10 PM CST up reply actions
Fangraphs says the defense is a big factor for Maholm
http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/paul-maholm-joins-cubs-a-study-in-blue-and-ivy/
Castro could have a big effect on how Maholm looks.
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