For Epstein And Hoyer, It's All About "More"
I've been spending the past few weeks trying to get a handle as what changes are coming to the Cubs method of player acquisition and development under the direction of new Cubs President Theo Epstein and General Manager Jed Hoyer. I've spent the time studying the Boston Red Sox drafts and minor league systems and the San Diego Padres system for the past two years. I think I've got a good handle as to how Theo Epstein ran the Red Sox and how Jed Hoyer went about implementing change in San Diego. Then along came the new collective bargaining agreement and that threw everything on its head.
To be honest, I don't really know exactly how the Cubs organization is going to change. But I can take a guess, and my guess is that the key word to remember is "more." Epstein and Hoyer are believers in "more." More prospects, more scouts, more front office people, more coaches and more information. If they make a mistake, they don't want it to be because they didn't work hard enough or didn't have enough information. When they do make a mistake (and don't worry, they will), they want to make sure they have a Plan B and Plan C ready to go.
I want to start with dispelling the myth that the Red Sox decided which players to acquire by sitting around a computer with a Jonah Hill clone which spit out a card like a penny fortune-telling machine. I also want to dismiss the idea that the Cubs signed their players by having them model jeans and calculating their batting averages on an ancient Chinese abacus. It just doesn't work that way. The Red Sox use of analytics might have been a little more advanced than the Cubs because they'd been at it longer, but people in the Cubs front office have been aware of advanced analytics for years. Likewise, the Red Sox employed many scouts who tried to project out a skinny kid's frame and looked for mechanical flaws in a pitcher's delivery. Neither one of them refused to draft a kid because his girlfriend was ugly. That's a joke that scouts tell each other.
The Red Sox approach to the draft over the past nine years can be summed up by more is better. The Red Sox notoriously hoarded draft picks by letting Type A and Type B free agents leave. In the nine amateur drafts since Epstein became the Red Sox GM after the 2002 season, the Red Sox have had a ridiculous 23 first round picks. Just to contrast, the Cubs had ten first round picks. That's a big reason right there that the Red Sox have had more success in the draft than the Cubs have had. Some of those draft picks, if you frame them as trades, would rank among the biggest steals of the decade: Jacoby Ellsbury and Jed Lowrie for Orlando Cabrera, Clay Buchholz for Pedro Martinez and Daniel Bard for Johnny Damon.
The other thing the Red Sox did was pay top dollar for top talent. Whether it was in the amateur draft or in international signings, the Red Sox never shied away from spending that extra couple of hundred thousand to a million dollars to get top talent to come to Boston. They knew that while it might cost them an extra five to ten million each year, they'd save five times that in cost-controlled ballplayers for the first six years of their careers. If even a third of their elite prospects made the majors, they'd come out ahead financially. The Red Sox success rate with these overslot signings was probably closer to 40-50% too.
The new collective bargaining agreement has put an end to this strategy. Now extra picks will only go to the most elite players who get a qualifying offer of somewhere around $12 million a year (the actual number will float according to current salaries). Extra first round picks will go to bad teams and small market teams randomly chosen by lottery. And of course, teams that go over a spending cap in either draft or international signings will be severely punished by losing future draft picks.
By the way, as critical as I am over the bonus cap, the elimination of most compensation picks for losing free agents is a good thing, even if it hurts the Cubs down the road. No one is more responsible for getting that compensation eliminated than Theo Epstein, because MLB was upset that a team the rule was intended to restrict, the Boston Red Sox, were actually benefitting from it more than any other team. There's one other great change in that there is no more clearing house that MLB could sit on deals until the deadline. Now, once a player comes to terms and passes a physical, he can play the next day in the minors. This is great news for the Boise Hawks, who will now get the elite talent from that year's draft on the field.
So Epstein and Hoyer are just not going to be able to run things in Chicago like they did in Boston. There are several rules in place to prevent teams from getting around these limits such as no major league contracts, losing the cap money if you fail to sign a player and definitely no under-the-table deals. About the only way to have extra money to sign overslot players in later rounds is to do what is being called "Matt Bush-ing" the first round: finding some player you like that is willing to sign for well under slot and spending the savings later. Of course, "Matt Bush-ing" didn't work out so well for the Padres in the pre-Jed Hoyer days.
One thing that will change is that those extra lottery draft picks can be traded. I suspect that few, if any, of those picks will get traded, but I figure Epstein will be on any team who is willing to part with one.
So the new front office is not going to be able to radically spending for the Cubs in the draft. Where the biggest change is going to happen is how that information gets used and how decisions are made. Certainly the Cubs placed more emphasis on athleticism and raw skills. It's been mentioned that Jim Hendry is one of the nicest men in the baseball business and that he had friends everywhere. Hendry used his connections outside the organization in both the amateur and professional game to get personal information on players, and he valued that information a lot more than Epstein and Hoyer are going to value similar information they receive. They'll likely get less of it, too, but they won't care a lot. Such information is valuable, but it can also blind you to what other sources, including stats, are telling you.
One important way in which Epstein and Hoyer have embraced "more" is that they're adding, not replacing, the people in the front office. First of all, they came to Chicago together and are both replacing Jim Hendry, not just one of them. They kept most of the front office intact as well. Only Hendry loyalists Gary Hughes and Greg Maddux followed him out the door, and they both left of their own accord. Randy Bush, Oneri Fleita and Tim Wilken are still around, but now they have Jason MacLeod and Joe Bohringer to handle some of the duties. Epstein also brought along two more scouts from the Red Sox. I'd expect he will hire more scouts in the days to come, even if he's forbidden from raiding Boston for a few more years. For Hendry, it seemed like too many voices could be a problem. For Epstein and Hoyer, they're an opportunity and they trust their own ability to sort through them.
The Red Sox (and to a lesser extent, the Padres) took a different approach in the draft, although it was never so simple as to just look at a player's stats. They tried to get as much information as possible and then sort it out in a way that I haven't figured out yet and if I did, I could probably sell it to another team for a fortune. But if I had to classify it, I'd say that they tried to diversify their drafts. Sure, they get lots of high-ceiling guys with all those first round draft picks they get. But Hoyer also took Corey Spangenberg last June and I wouldn't call him a high-ceiling guy, although he could be a solid second baseman for many years. The year before, the Padres took a high-ceiling high school pitcher in Karsten Whitson, even if they didn't manage to sign him. But that's the type of diversity I expect to see. Both Epstein and Hoyer stay away from signing any one type of guy out of the amateur ranks.
But above all, both Epstein and Hoyer seem committed to rebuilding the Cubs through the farm system first. The free agent and major league trade acquisitions this off-season have all been stopgap players who won't block younger, cheaper players. Epstein in Boston also was much more likely to use that farm system to trade for a star player before free agency than get into an open bidding war for a player. That changed recently with John Lackey and Carl Crawford, neither of which turned out that well. I expect the Cubs to be very careful in the future giving out long-term free agent contracts. But like in Boston, I doubt the Cubs will eschew the market for top free agents entirely.
I've always said there is more than one way to build a winning ball club. It seems to me that in Boston, the Red Sox tried them all at the same time, figuring that at least one of them would work. It did. Let's hope it works again in Chicago and soon.
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would have preferred more explosions
but not bad, regardless
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 10, 2012 1:23 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Great post
Do you think that the CBA has affected their approach to 2012 with regard to trading veteran talent – i.e. more than they would have otherwise?
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 1:25 PM CST reply actions
I think it was a factor
but I think that really only Marshall did it play a role. Zambrano went for whatever he’d fetch because of the clubhouse problems. Cashner went because of the opportunity to get Rizzo.
A desire to trade Garza might be based on the new CBA, but he’d likely get compensation even under the new rules.
Mostly, I think they’re cleaning house to make room for the “More” players they plan to obtain in the future.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 10, 2012 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
It might have affected their interest in Fielder.
They knew it would be harder to build a good team around him without trades, so maybe they figured they weren’t that interested.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
It absolutely is
A desire to trade Garza might be based on the new CBA, but he’d likely get compensation even under the new rules.
Under the new rules, they know they’re better off trading Garza for multiple prospects, even if they ultimately have to spend money to replace him.
I am not
sure guys like Stewart and a few others that have been acquired are stop gap. I really think they believe that some of these additions will be able to contribute in the coming years.
As I said
They aren’t going to do anything just one way. Some guys are stop gaps. Stewart is more of a lottery ticket. If he works out, great. If not, he didn’t cost a lot.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 10, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
Yes really
the only true stop gap I see is DeJesus. You are correct, if guys like Stewart do not pan out, not real sunk cost. But I have a real good feeling about Stewart and Volstad.
one item that is now clear are a focus of acquiring lefties
Southpaw pitchers and power from the left side of the plate. Pitchers Hoyer said the advantage is holding on runners at 1B, at the plate they have said that Wrigley has a greater HR ratio, I think they have found something about the Cubs and prescription to winning besides talent.
Notice outside of Volstad all the major acquisitions have included a lefty; Stewart, Wood, Maholm, DeJesus, Rizzo
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
by Ivy Walls on Jan 10, 2012 5:48 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
so..
we’re getting more lefthanded?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 10, 2012 8:17 PM CST up reply actions
I know something you don't know
I, am not lefthanded!
"I'm sore and I'm pissed off. I'm a baller. I want to feel the leather. I love thumb wars. 6-8 weeks? 6. follow me for healing, Jay Cutler does" - Jaysthumb twitter acct
I agree with you Wild Bill
Offensively the two biggst pieces we’ve lost are Aramis and Pena. They’re both roughly 27-30/95 types on the corners.
What I honestly think we’ll see in Ian Stewart is about 25/80 or so with upgraded defense and atitude along with a LOT lower price tag and more youth albeit with a lower BA and probably an upgrade on base running.
First base is tougher—but between LaHair and Rizzo I again think about 25/85 is not far fetched but this this time wityh a dongrade i n defense and upgrade in BA.
When you begin to upgrade defensively in multiple slots (DeJesus is another) and toss in smarter base running and better team chemistry—the team will be fun to watch. I really believe that.
"God, I always said I would never bother you about baseball, but if you could make this pain in my shoulder stop for ten minutes, I would really appreciate it."
Billy Chapel
Out of
all the potential improvements I am looking forward to watching a better defensive team. Call me old fashioned, but as we know defense will help pitching and overall improve the win loss record.
I totally agree with this.
There is nothing worse than watching a game get ruined by sloppy, little league style nonsense.
OCCUPY BCB. - swl
you mean juice boxes, parents yelling and chasing butterflys in the outfield?
So i you can give you can take it.
I think they're trying to build the 2012 team around two different types of player:
1) Young players with potential to star for the team for years to come (ranging from someone like Castro, to a low risk high reward guy like Stewart)
2) Trade bait for the deadline
If you don’t fit into one of those two categories, Theo probably has no use for you. Which is why a Kerry Wood signing is probably taking so long.
Even guy’s like David Dejesus and Paul Maholm are probably just guys that Theo can see bouncing back, and having value at the deadline. They’re just giving themselves supreme amounts of flexibility. Very fun to watch a real front office at work.
(and I’m not saying that Dejesus, Maholm or others are definitely on the move, just that Theo is not currently in the business of picking up any player that he will be married to)
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 10, 2012 3:15 PM CST up reply actions
Y'know, I gotta admit...
…that I’ve gone from feeling pretty confident that Kerry Wood will sign with the Cubs to being 50/50 on it now. Maybe even 40 (that he will sign)/60 (that he won’t).
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Me, too, daver.
I get the concept of holding firm and maybe even playing hardball in most cases. But with Kerry Wood?
This whole situation is just really strange. Ballhawk even guessed that this is all for show, so Kerry’s signing could be a big thing this weekend. I doubt that, but I sure as hell can’t figure what’s going on. If TheoJed are willing to give Kerry 1 year at around $2 million (“substantial raise”) are they really that concerned about another $2 million (totaling $4 million for what Kaplan says Wood wants) given the current payroll for 2012?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I just hate the idea that Woody is somehow owed something by the organization
seeing as he signed for below market value last year. What about the years that the Cubs were paying him gobs of money to to visit shoulder specialists every other week?
I love Kerry Wood, and would be perfectly happy with them signing him, but I can certainly understand their hesitancy when he’s so clearly not the type of player that they want on the roster at the moment
And to be honest, I know he loves the Cubs, but I’m having a hard time understanding why he wants to be here. Go ring chasing with some other team, make a little more money, then come back in a year or two as a broadcaster, or coach or something. Or maybe even a player if he still has something left in the tank.
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 10, 2012 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
Chicago's home for him. That part makes perfect sense.
I understand that Kerry shouldn’t be entitled to MUCH more than any other player. But the way this has been so public — considering it’s Kerry — is, well, odd.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Yeah, but who's the one making it public?
Seems like it’s all him. When David Kaplan is writing the things he wrote last night, where do you think that stuff is coming from? Sure as hell ain’t Theo and co.
They’ve been consistent with their intentions, and I think Woody has been underwhelmed and feeling backed into a corner, which is likely why we’re hearing these new things being leaked.
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 10, 2012 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
Ironically
I would bet that makes it less likely that he signs. It seems like Theo likes to keep things much closer to the vest.
OCCUPY BCB. - swl
In this case,
Wood does deserve to finish his career here. He is not Jeter and New York, but he needs to be signed. Besides he can still pitch. Darren Oliver signed for 4M with Toronto, I think Kerry should be in that range.
Great summary.
You’ve pretty much nailed my primary issue with the Hendry Regime – we abhorred the idea of acquiring compensation picks.
Obviously, you’ve heard me harp on this for the last 4 years. But it was just such a failure of strategy, and I still don’t understand what they were doing.
Lilly for DeWitt, Smit and Wallach was really the last straw. I still can’t figure out what he was going for there. Walking away from Type A compensation in last year’s awesome draft?!
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
While I don't disagree about the Lilly trade ...
Hendry probably didn’t have much confidence in his FO’s drafting ability.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
If you aren't (and they weren't) willing to offer arbitration,
might as well get something for him.
Very glad to have Theo Inc
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Nice job of gathering your thoughts into this post. Yes it appears, more is better.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 is going into the Hall of Fame!!
You would think
the odds of some of them sticking to the wall so to speak, increase with the shear volume. One can hope.
You're lucky
This was originally a two-parter in which I rambled on about minutia about the Red Sox system. Then I came to my senses and realized no one cared. It’s still long, but not as long as originally envisioned.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 10, 2012 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
Hendry used an abacus?
I find it hard to believe he was that high tech. I thought he was using Antonio Alfonseca’s fingers and toes.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Jan 10, 2012 1:47 PM CST reply actions
Na!
He used the fingers and toes of Mordecai Three Finger Brown instead. He didn’t feel he need more than that.
I don’t want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it.
by cub in louies nest on Jan 10, 2012 8:08 PM CST up reply actions
Dan and I came up with the idea of the two guys runinng things in the front office WAY before the Theo-Jed thing.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 10, 2012 1:51 PM CST reply actions
It bothers me that you capitalized the entire second word but not the entire first word.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I personally love all of the "more" people they've added to the operation.
It’s no shock that TheoJed added two advanced scouts to prepare the Cubs against their upcoming opponents with stats, video analysis, etc. However, it is completely shocking that the Cubs didn’t even have anyone employed to perform such tasks!
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Yes
The Cubs had people to do that. But they were stretched thin. Tim Wilken was nominally in charge of it, but he had a full-time job preparing for the amateur draft. That left Randy Bush to do a lot of the advance, but he had other responsibilities aiding Hendry.
They had statistical and video analysts, but I’m still not sure who they reported to.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 10, 2012 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
From the tidbit that I orginally read about this
It doesn’t paint the picture that the Cubs had people employed specifically to do this job duty.
Link
The Cubs also made a more subtle change that could impact their daily performance: The team hired former Red Sox major league scout Kyle Evans and put him in charge of the Cubs’ revamped video and advance scouting. While Epstein is generally associated with the rise of sabermetric analysis in the sport, he has long employed a large number of scouts – including advance scouts who help the coaching staff and players with game preparation. While with the Red Sox, Epstein employed two advance scouts at a time when other clubs had none. Epstein and Hoyer have carried an emphasis on advance scouting with them, hoping that Evans will get targeted information into the hands of manager Dale Sveum, coaches and players. The team plans to utilize scouting reports, analytical data and video to produce easy-to-digest information that is most applicable on the field.
If there was somebody on staff to already head this job description, Theo wouldn’t have had to create the position.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I have to wonder...
if this new CBA with how it limits the drafting via caps and whatnot if it will lead to more parity across the league over time. Teams that will spend big all the time usually results in a better record which will lead to lesser draft budget. But a team like the Rays, which has a small payroll and is actually playing well will start to feel a squeeze where they can’t infuse with the top talent like they used to. If the Rays continue to do well, being a small market team, I can see them back at the bottom of their division in 7 years or so.
the CBA screws over every team
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 10, 2012 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
Great article
but I’m more curious to see what Josh77 thinks.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 10, 2012 1:59 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
I know you're new here
but there’s no name calling, unless you’re calling us sheep or meatballs or what have you. :)
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 10, 2012 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
using numbers instead of one's last name is so pretentious
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 10, 2012 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
Though there's nothing wrong with naming yourself after a historical figure.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
Considering the complete lack of starting pitching depth in the system last year ...
going for “more” seems like a right-headed strategy.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
This team desperately needs to get more left-headed....
Another failed strategy.
milton bradley isn't right-headed
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 10, 2012 4:33 PM CST up reply actions
Great Analysis
Another aspect about the Red Sox is they have to compete with the Yankee’s willingness to spend big $$$ on players via free agency or trade. Looking forward to game 1 and beyond
"If The Phone Doesn't Ring, It's Me"
"Miami Redhawk Hockey"
I don't think the importance of this statement
One important way in which Epstein and Hoyer have embraced “more” is that they’re adding, not replacing, the people in the front office. can be overstated. It definitely helps to have more competent people evaluating players.
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07
Matt Bush-ing??
Shouldn’ that be called Jeremy Brown-ing?
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
Has anyone asked or do we know regarding this:
One thing that will change is that those extra lottery draft picks can be traded. I suspect that few, if any, of those picks will get traded, but I figure Epstein will be on any team who is willing to part with one.
How do the budgets work if you do trade for one of those picks? Is your pre-penalty budget increased in accordance?
Since that would make the most sense (get another pick, get the ok to spend $ on that pick)….. I’m assuming baseball is doing the opposite.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
If you get the pick
you get the budget to sign it. But if you fail to sign the player you draft, you lose the extra money so you can’t grab an extra pick just to spend the budget on other players.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 10, 2012 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
I love how baseball managed to take a system that was pretty confusing
and somehow make it even harder to understand or get a feel for. Then again, it’s the only system out there where you can get real separation between GMs, as you’re going to have those that understand what they’re working with, and now how to abuse it, and those that probably don’t have a good enough idea for how to work within its constraints.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 10, 2012 2:46 PM CST reply actions
Nice writeup.
The one comment you made that I like is a Plan A, Plan B and Plan C. Hendry in numerous cases didn’t have fallback options when something went wrong and frequently something will always go wrong over the course of as season.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
Great post.
Hendry may have had a Plan B and C but they may have not have been very good. It seemed that all his eggs were in Plan A.
"IN THEO WE TRUST"
You are right.
Hendry never had a contingency plan. When something failed, he just dug deeper into the system or spent more money to try to fix the failure. I am looking forward to the season. While I don’t think we will necessarily reach 500, I do think we will finish better than we did last year. The team will in the very least be less frustrating to watch.
I don’t want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it.
by cub in louies nest on Jan 10, 2012 8:23 PM CST up reply actions
This team will finish better than it starts.
And will not resemble what is currently on the 40 man roster.
Well done
You hit it with " preparing to add players they really want in the future" I think free agency signings will happen next year and the following when the dead money is gone. A team with a vision, a novel idea.
I saw recently that Theo ran game simulations for the 2003 playoffs and was able to advise his coaching staff on how to use certain players based on over 1000 simulated games played.
I believe it was on Behind the Seams : Baseball Statistics on MLB Network. Should be replaying again.
THAT IS AWESOME.
And why I’m glad he’s on our side.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Theo's drafting
involves trying to bring in high-calibre talent of all sorts (some safe, some very high risk), and following it up every year with similar inputs. He understands that many/most will underperform his hopes.
1. Load up the lower levels with talent.
2. Instruct and motivate at high effectiveness at all levels.
3. Rinse, repeat.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
You're a really good writer, Josh, keep it up.
What’s your day job, by the way?
Finally, I know I’m supposed to be angry about the new draft rules, but I still don’t understand them.
Dan
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I think Theo does
That’s what’s important.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Can someone break down
what the total number (threshold) was reduced to? Like, where it was before hand and what it is now.
"I'm sore and I'm pissed off. I'm a baller. I want to feel the leather. I love thumb wars. 6-8 weeks? 6. follow me for healing, Jay Cutler does" - Jaysthumb twitter acct
New CBA
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that it won’t take long (2 seasons max) before JedStein figures out the loopholes in the new CBA that they can exploit to get a competitive advantage once again.
There are only 2 things in the world that both young men and old men can enjoy without understanding them: Baseball and Women

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