Peter Gammons does it again.

by thisisitflyfishing on Jan 11, 2012 11:31 AM CST

“The Tigers aren’t even willing to trade Turner straight up for Garza”...Really Peter? My guess is that this deal would be done by now if that were the Cubs offer.

A Tigers rotation as follows gives them the upper hand in the AL. They are a team that has not won the WS since 1984 and now have a legitimate shot but must overcome the Angels, Yankee's, RedSox etc. and Gammon's thinks they wouldn't do the deal straight up.

Justin Verlander,Matt Garza, Doug Fister, Max Scherzer, Rick Porcello

Peter Gammons use to be one of my favorite writers and commentators. Regrettfully he has lost ALL credibility. I do not understand his obsession with the Cubs and continually making comments that simply are without merit.
Some of my favorites;
“The Tigers aren’t even willing to trade Turner straight up for Garza”
“everyone involved knows the Cubs are a bottom-three farm system”
“The Cubs do not have the cash to sign Fielder”
“Wrigley Field is a Dump”

Why is Peter doing this? When did his journalistic integrity go the way of "the dump"?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Gammons...

… has had a rough time since he had a brain aneurysm a couple years ago and nearly died.

I’d cut him a little slack for that, but really, he’s been wrong more than right recently.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 11, 2012 11:48 AM CST reply actions

I hear you

Believe me I feel badly for him regarding his health scare and i do not mean him ill will however I don’t think it is too much to ask for journalistic integrity when the man continues to work and put out pieces.

by thisisitflyfishing on Jan 11, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions

yeah, if he stopped receiving a paycheck after the surgery

ok, give the guy a break. but he is acting as a professional baseball journalist. he doesnt deserve any slack from anyone.

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Jan 11, 2012 1:43 PM CST up reply actions

Agree

its terrible what happened to him but he is still a baseball reporter and subject to criticism. If he is no longer able to perform his duties he should retire.

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Jan 11, 2012 4:20 PM CST up reply actions

F that

and F him.

He needs to retire. This red sox homer saw his team win two world series. Why the vendetta against theo for leaving for a better opportunity?

Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson

by TheBeerBaron on Jan 15, 2012 4:28 AM CST up reply actions

Seriously, dude

… what’s with the “F him”?

Ever had serious health issues? If you haven’t, I’d suggest you have a little sympathy.

I agree with you that Gammons should retire. But you could have been nicer about it.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 15, 2012 8:30 AM CST up reply actions

Huh?

I have/had a serious health issue. I would like people to tell me to F off if I’m being a jerk. People with serious health issues would like to be treated like they are normal, not like some special entitled dbag because they are sick or WERE sick in Pete’s case. So I agree, F off Mr. Gammons.

by ferris2001 on Jan 18, 2012 7:34 AM CST up reply actions

Extremely insensitive.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 18, 2012 9:06 AM CST up reply actions

Extremely oversensitive

by ferris2001 on Jan 18, 2012 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

No, I am NOT.

I have known people in my life with serious and chronic health issues. If you came up to them and said “F off” because they made a statement you didn’t like, I’d have a huge problem with that.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 18, 2012 1:12 PM CST up reply actions

so

Again, overcoming an illness absolves one from criticism?

It does not.

Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson

by TheBeerBaron on Jan 18, 2012 9:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

It's clear that Gammons is still suffering from the effects of his brain injury.

Walk a mile in his shoes, or have someone in your life who has those kinds of challenges, and you’ll change your tune.

Your insensitivity is appalling.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 19, 2012 7:19 AM CST up reply actions

Criticism is fine, "F him" is idiotic

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jan 20, 2012 8:55 AM CST up reply actions

idiot

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jan 20, 2012 8:54 AM CST up reply actions

Let's see.

Someone posted something really inappropriate.

You calling him an idiot didn’t really help matters any.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 20, 2012 9:03 AM CST up reply actions

basically saying the same thing you were saying just more direct.

My comment describes beercub’s and ferris’s contributions in this post to a T.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jan 20, 2012 9:57 AM CST up reply actions

Again, namecalling isn't allowed here.

So try another way to counter the argument.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 20, 2012 10:11 AM CST up reply actions

calling someone insensitive is also namecalling is it not?

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jan 20, 2012 11:10 AM CST up reply actions

The "insensitivity" note was aimed at his comment

… not him as a person. I trust you can see the difference. A person can make an insensitive remark without being 100% insensitive.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 20, 2012 11:29 AM CST up reply actions

and so was my note

also, if one makes an insensitive comment and apologizes that is one thing, but when one makes the comment and then defends it, that is something else.

I trust you can see the difference.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jan 20, 2012 12:03 PM CST up reply actions

No, your note was calling someone a name. Period.

I referred to the comment. There was no apology from the person making the insensitive comment.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 20, 2012 12:55 PM CST up reply actions

you ndo like to pick nits

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jan 20, 2012 1:03 PM CST up reply actions

classy, your parents must be so proud

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jan 15, 2012 9:20 AM CST up reply actions

Gammons...

…reminds me of what it was like watching Willie Mays the last year or two of his career when he hung on too long. It is sad to watch someone who was once so good, just deteriorate in front of your own eyes. It’s sadder still, they didn’t know themselves, when to walk away.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jan 11, 2012 5:08 PM CST up reply actions

Wow, that evoked sad memories.

The best all around player I ever saw. But he was pathetic at the end. It was ugly-sad.

by Bad Dogs on Jan 12, 2012 5:27 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

Yes it was...

…and he was (IMO) the greatest baseball player whoever lived.

Another example of this (again IMO) was Harry Caray. He was so talented and so engaging, it was really a shame to see his last few years be what they were, as he was only a shell of his former self.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jan 12, 2012 10:02 AM CST up reply actions

After Harry's stroke

… he should have retired, or stayed on to do pregame shows and maybe go around the ballpark shaking hands. His play by play skills really diminshed after 1987.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 12, 2012 11:32 AM CST up reply actions

Why is Peter doing this? When did his journalistic integrity go the way of "the dump"? you ask?

Because Gammons rode the Epstein/Boston train to his current or previous industry position and now is connected to the BOSOX ownership.

This is a nasty divorce between Boston and Epstein where in nasties Gammons has taken sides, and now is a willing surrogate. What net effect it will happen will depend on Epstein (and Ricketts) response. My guess is that Gammons will continue to use his name on MLB and Fox to say things that he thinks people will listen but once it is known he is a surrogate for Boston’s ownership who is going to talk with him.

A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight

by Ivy Walls on Jan 11, 2012 11:49 AM CST reply actions 1 recs

I agree the divorce was nasty

however some of Peter’s comments have been made before this past Fall; the Wrigley dump comment namely. I think it is deeper and a clearly his own bias.

by thisisitflyfishing on Jan 11, 2012 12:08 PM CST up reply actions

That could have come from thinking his old park is better than our old park.

Some people have to talk others (things) down to make theirs look better.

by LT on Jan 11, 2012 7:26 PM CST up reply actions

Regardless

of what Gammons thinks I trust TheoJed to get it right with a trade. If however, Garza is still a Cub openning day, I’ll will definately look forward to seeing him pitch every five days.

by Uncle Fungus on Jan 11, 2012 11:55 AM CST reply actions

If the Tigers don't include Turner and ...

the Cubs can’t get any top prospect back — you simply keep Garza. Period.

'Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.'

by Unique on Jan 11, 2012 12:28 PM CST reply actions

agreed 100%.

The Cubs control this one!

by thisisitflyfishing on Jan 11, 2012 12:59 PM CST up reply actions

What does any of this have to do with the Red Sox?

Gammons doesn’t do any reporting on any team unless it somehow leads back to a Boston angle.

" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "

by aaronb on Jan 11, 2012 1:59 PM CST reply actions

peter gammons is the ryan theriot of sportswriting

Just wee-un.

by jesus christos on Jan 11, 2012 4:27 PM CST reply actions

Scrappy?

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Jan 11, 2012 4:38 PM CST up reply actions

awful in every shape and form at his job

Just wee-un.

by jesus christos on Jan 11, 2012 4:44 PM CST up reply actions

and scrappy?

by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2012 4:55 PM CST up reply actions

how tall is gammons?

Just wee-un.

by jesus christos on Jan 11, 2012 5:14 PM CST up reply actions

Full of TOOTBLANs?

"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."

by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST

by fsuapollo on Jan 12, 2012 10:30 AM CST up reply actions

Here's the thing:

If this were true, then why would the Cubs still be in discussion with the Tigers since, apparently, they’re on completely different pages about Garza’s value.

I’d like to think that Theo and Jed would’ve walked away by now.

by bluekoolaide on Jan 11, 2012 5:55 PM CST reply actions

Well....do we know they're still in discussions?

by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2012 6:44 PM CST up reply actions

I suppose we don't

But then isn’t that the main story: that discussions between the Cubs and Tigers have broken off (which, I also suppose, would mean that Gammons is essentially right).

Whatever happens-the consolation prize-us keeping Garza-isn’t too bad.

by bluekoolaide on Jan 11, 2012 7:44 PM CST up reply actions

I'm all for the consolation prize

I’m just not sure we should all be jumping over Peter for being “wrong” when we have no actual idea whether he is.

Dude’s track record has been bad, but I’d rather call Peter out when I know he deserves it

by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2012 8:39 PM CST up reply actions

He isn't right

What Gammon’s is saying is that the Tiger’s won’t trade Turner straight up for Garza. I personally think the hold up on the deal is that the Cubs want Turner + ??. I also suspect that if the Cubs said Turner for Garza straight up the Tigers would jump.

by thisisitflyfishing on Jan 11, 2012 8:11 PM CST reply actions

I often wonder if it is more than just the aneurysm

I have known people with dementia (Senility & Alzheimer’s), who seem to lose boundaries when they speak. I wonder if this is stuff he has always believed & now he just says it. He clearly has a bias.

I don’t want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it.

by cub in louies nest on Jan 12, 2012 3:28 AM CST via mobile reply actions

Some of my favorites;
"The Tigers aren’t even willing to trade Turner straight up for Garza"
"everyone involved knows the Cubs are a bottom-three farm system"
"The Cubs do not have the cash to sign Fielder"
"Wrigley Field is a Dump"

What exactly isn’t true there?

1) It’s possible.
2) They were, why do you think TheoJed are rebuilding?
3) They don’t. Ricketts cut payroll for a reason.
4) Take a full tour of the park sometime. It is a dump. It’s our dump, and we love it, but it is a dump.

"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts

by bluemagic9 on Jan 12, 2012 6:35 AM CST reply actions

I respectfully disagree

1. It’s possible if they don’t have an interest in taking a run at the WS this year which is completely doubtful. All other analysts have said the Cubs are looking for a “haul” for Garza. Detroit would absolutely leak a statement like “we’re not willing to trade straight up” simply to negotiate the deal down. Gammons bit on that.
2. All the analysis that I have read had the Cubs at #14 or #15 before Theo/Jed took over. New preliminary reports have said the Cubs are likely to move up 2-3 spots as they are today.
3. They are cutting payroll because they know they do not have what they need to make a run in 2012. You will see payroll increase in 13’ and beyond when they have a shot. This is a major market team, the cash is there.
4. This is obviously debateable and I agree with you. I simply don’t see the value in Gammon’s statement.
Quite simply in the past year I’ve noticed that Gammon’s takes every opportunity to take the other side vs. the Cubs. I’m not sure why but I wanted to point that out. I personally think he’s lost journalistic credibility. Just my opinion and I had been a big fan for many years.

by thisisitflyfishing on Jan 12, 2012 8:53 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Wrigley is a dump

the new bleachers are great since they are only six years old, but the rest of the park really is bad. I now sit in Sec 242, a great spot to be, I can use the Captain Morgan club bathrooms and get quality drinks there. However, I’m a regular, and know my way around.

The rest of the park is awful, the poles, narrow concourse, horrible bathroom lines, getting to the upper deck is a pain for older people with only one elevator in far left field. Getting out of the park for for many people stinks too…I can understand Gammons calling it a dump.

The renovation can’t come soon enough.

by MikeJW on Jan 12, 2012 1:15 PM CST up reply actions

Its an advantage to know your way out of Wrigley

Never follow the people and don’t leave through the concourse. I usually sift through the field box empty rows and exit right under where Al sits.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Jan 12, 2012 8:02 PM CST up reply actions

I have been assured it isn't.

by South Side Expat on Jan 13, 2012 12:10 PM CST up reply actions

I like Wrigley just the way it is.

Of course, I liked the stadium, too. I guess I am in the minority, now. To call it a dump is wrong, IMO, but I have never been in the locker rooms.

by Bad Dogs on Jan 13, 2012 2:00 PM CST up reply actions

The clubhouses are small

… but I wouldn’t call them “dumps”. They definitely need more space for player amenities, some of which will come via the triangle building, presuming it ever gets built.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 13, 2012 2:17 PM CST up reply actions

It's certainly no place to bring kids...

The same reason I would never bring my kids into a bar. I’m not saying it’s not safe, but I had a horrible experience there in 2007 and haven’t been back since.

Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.

by IowaCubs- on Jan 13, 2012 10:33 PM CST up reply actions

It's interesting when someone says "Wrigley Field is a Dump"

I never hear this from people with respect to seating down and watchng the game. The “Dump” comment is usually associated to the narrow concourse, not enough food options, bathrooms, ramps to the upper decks, no kid’s events/distractions, etc.

Sure there is netting to catch falling concrete – Ernie Banks will autograph any piece you catch – no bouncies! And the Clubhouses are small – not that I care when I’m sitting at the game.

So does it need to be renovated? Yes. Does it need to torn down and scraped? No.

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum

by RiskyBusiness on Jan 20, 2012 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs