The Quote of 2012's Cubs Convention: Epstein
by Ivy Walls on Jan 16, 2012 3:07 PM CST
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PrintI look at this as the culture shock that seemed to fly over many in Cubdom: At Theo Esptein's talk to the assemblage in the old Hilton he said the following:
"Patience at the plate will be the new rule", [ followed by] "...It's not a player's at bat, it's the team's at bat".
WOW, knowing how the Cubs have been free swingers as if teeing up the first pitch or how Cubdom has always looked at the individual and their individual AB's instead of this being a team thing, this piece of news and approach in how they (Epstein/Hoyer and their team) will evaluate those whom they acquire (release, trade or pass over) and then play.
How will this go over with the existing veterans like Soriano, or even Soto, Byrd or even Castro. My guess this will take time but looking down the system I bet BJackson, Vitters, Castillo or even Rizzo should take note that a new approach. As for the front office's approach he went on to describe it this way, dismissing the:
"old school" vs "new school" [describing it as the] "thorough and inclusive school"
alluding to a combination of human scouting and sabermetric data to make more informed decisions.
(I want to thank my father-in-law for going to his second favorite Chicago winter event, they have Chicago Symphony tickets since 1960, and recording Theo's program and then sending it to me via digitized recording.)
Most of the rest of Epstein's stuff was a repeat from his numerous statements in the media but these two really stuck out. The shock will be as this is implemented.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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We saw him both Friday night on sportscentral and also the next morning
I have heard some of the things he said before in interviews. We were in the second row so I had a good view of watching him while he was talking. One of the things that impressed me the most, was that you could tell he meant what he said.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 16, 2012 3:15 PM CST reply actions
here's my thoughts on "how will this go over" question....
I think the 2 veterans who would refuse to even try this new thought approach are gone. I think the vets you named above, are ones who though set in their ways, seem thoughtful (is that the right word) enough about their team that they would try their hardest to be of this mindset. this is just my opinion on this.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
I'm not so sure.
Soriano has shown some patience, it just he can’t seem to lay off the low slider. These are major league players, and in Soriano’s case, have played for a lot of different managers. I think he can do it.
The problem is whether Rudy J can do it. I have not been impressed by our worlds greatest hitting coach so far. If anyone will go first, it may be him if he cannot implement “the new way” of Cubs hitting.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 is going into the Hall of Fame!!
I posted about this yesterday.
My least favorite move this offseason was the retention of Rudy Jaramillo. I can’t see how his “aggressive” plate approach didn’t lead to the Cubs swinging at countless first pitches in 2011 and to generally disappointing offseason results for two years.
Al’s suggested that Rudy’s approach was dictated by the front office over the past two years — something I question. Hendry’s two big offseason acquisitions after 2007 and 2008 were Kosuke Fukudome and Milton Bradley, so we know Hendry didn’t reject OBP. I think that, after 2009, Hendry hired the best hitting coach he THOUGHT he could find, and that guy just happened to be a free-swinger advocate (whose biggest claims to fame were hitters in the pre-Moneyball era in home-run and PED-friendly Texas). This would all be moot if Rudy had better results in the past two years in Chicago, but despite some players with high BAs, the Cubs just haven’t scored that many runs and certainly haven’t made opposing pitchers work that hard.
Now, Theo’s saying that patience is the new thing. This means one (or some combo) of the following is true:
1) Front offices generally (or Theo, specifically, in this case) can effectively influence hitting coaches regarding patience. This would lend credence to part of Al’s theory.
2) The Cubs feel that player-personnel changes can make the team more patient, regardless of Rudy.
3) Hitting coaches are almost meaningless, at least when it comes to plate discipline. The role might have more to do with mechanics than anything else.
4) The Cubs are counting on Sveum’s experience as a hitting coach to overrule Rudy, if needed.
5) The Cubs have a hitting coach who will be a major obstacle to Theo’s new approach.
Should be interesting to see what happens. I applaud Theo for his thinking — I just hope the Cubs have the right guy in the dugout to implement the strategy.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
by elgato on Jan 16, 2012 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
*offensive, not offseason
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Are you referring to Dale or Rudy in the dugout?
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 16, 2012 4:59 PM CST up reply actions
Rudy.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I hope it influences Rudy
but more importantly I hope it influences the players. But I do worry that bad habits are hard to break for veteran ball players.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 16, 2012 5:08 PM CST up reply actions
Since Rudy came to the Cubs things have gotten worse.
Here are the facts on the Cubs OB% in the last five years.
2011 .256 BA .314 OB% 654 RS 3.74 pitches per PA Record 71-91
2010 .257 .320 685 3.79 P/PA 75-87
2009 .255 .325 707 3.82 83-78
2008 .278 .354 855 3.88 97-64
2007 .271 .333 752 3.74 85-77
Here is the OB% over batting average for each year. .58, .63, .70, .76, .62
Jaramillo's days, I would think, are numbered...
…if this team takes the same plate approach as last years team took, Jaramillo won’t make it till the All Star Game break. Enter Bill Buckner.
by Easy Ed on Jan 16, 2012 5:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Might be a great move if BB woild do it.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 is going into the Hall of Fame!!
by mrcubsfan on Jan 16, 2012 5:51 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Rec’d for recommending Bill Buckner! That guy hardly ever struck out.
Then again…he didn’t walk much, either. For example, when he won the NL batting title in 1980, he hit .324, with only 18 strikeouts (!); however, his OBP was only .353, since he walked only 30 times (11 intentional).
It’d be great to see him back with the Cubs, though.
Wow
That is a difference!
But these players regardless of the reasons have developed bad habits.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 16, 2012 6:28 PM CST up reply actions
While there is a downward trend, we really don't know how much blame we can put on Jaramillo.
The players on the 2008 team were much better than the players we had in ’09, ’10, or ’11. A lot of the decline in OBP could be a result of the quality of players that we have had of late.
That said, it’s very likely that his aggressive approach has had some effect on the decline in OBP; we just have to be careful about exaggerating the magnitude of the effect.
by Naveen Nallappa on Jan 16, 2012 7:25 PM CST up reply actions
Much of the core was the same.
I think that the players took the cue from Kosuke and his patience, then lost it when Rudy took over. I agree, his days may be numbered, his will be the first head to roll.
I think both the impact from Kosuke and from Jaramillo is widely exaggerated
by bdlugz on Jan 16, 2012 9:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll rec that.
The impact of hitting coaches in general is exaggerated.
The impact of Kosuke Fukudome on literally every aspect of the game over the last 4 years is just wildly, hysterically exaggerated.
Remember how he was generating tens of millions of dollars in Japan money in some way that no one was ever able to elucidate?
Or how his conditioning and work ethic were going to cause the whole team to stay stronger all season?
Or how he was a spectacular RF who saved untold runs with his range (!) and his arm (!!!)?
Or how he was so patient that it didn’t just cause him to walk, but also everyone around him?
We all really wanted Dome to be a good baseball player. He wasn’t.
/sad trombone
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jan 17, 2012 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Dome's value...
was always overrated, IMO, because he had a hot start to his career and a big first game. Took people a long time to move past that.
D98 mistaken, a hyperbole as in a funny or revisionism as in trying to make a new fact to confirm a prejudice
Can I rec this more than 10 times?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
You're just mad you didn't get to drive him to the airport when he was traded.
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Kosuke did not make the Cubs more patient.
If he did, why did Kosuke lose his magic on-base touch with the Cubs in 2009? Rudy didn’t become the hitting coach until 2010.
The 2008 Cubs were patient because a) Kosuke drew a lot of walks, b) Jim Edmonds drew a lot of walks and c) Geovany Soto drew a lot of walks, among other things.
Kosuke’s magical effects on the rest of the Cubs’ plate discipline is an old canard used to justify the bad contract.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Sure, the personnel changes had some effect.
Marlon Byrd in center for most of the past two years is a helluva lot less patient than Jim Edmonds was in 2008. And DeRosa was probably more patient than Barney or Theriot/Fontenot/Baker in 2010.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Even more remarkable, they added Pena in 2011
So the rest of the team really got swing-happy if they more than offset his BB %.
Rudy...
…is Rudy and he isn’t going to change at this stage of his career.
After this first year, I would bet Rudy is gone and it could be that Tim Wilken is as well.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Well, except
… when Jeff Pentland worked with Sammy Sosa, that coincided with Sosa being more patient and drawing more walks.
When Pentland was fired after the 2002 season, Sammy started hacking again. Pentland was Cubs hitting coach from 1998-2002.
Take a look at Sosa’s walks before 1998, from 1998-2002, and from 2003 and later.
Pentland made a difference. Not to say that every hitting coach does, but there’s a guy who did matter.
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And I'm sure I can find someone that was more patient while Jaramillo was their hitting coach.
It was one example… maybe Pentland simply saw something in Sosa’s mechanics other pitching coaches did not… but you can’t teach a good eye.
Rudy has a pretty consistent track record of preaching hackiness.
That said, Pentland helped Sosa learn to hit the ball to opposite fields. Combined with the (ahem) extra help Sammy was getting in those years — and the lack of protection for him in the lineup, particularly in 2001-02 — I think this could be a chicken-and-egg situation.
Did Sosa hit more home runs and hit for a higher average because he was more selective, or were opposing teams less likely to challenge him when he was at his peak?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
"hackiness?"
What you get when you play:
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)
What are you basing this on?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Personal opinion.
I think that hitting coaches are there to support mechanical hitches in swings and to help prevent prolonged slumps from bad mechanics, however I don’t think they can teach patience or how to have a good eye. They can preach it, but it’s up to the player to want to be more selective.
I think there is a reason that hitting coaches are always the first on a team to be fired for a disappointing year – they can be easily replaced and don’t have the impact a lot of you seem to think they do. Again though, this is just opinion, no way to prove one way or another.
I asked Brenly and Moreland about this on Saturday.
They both kind of talked in circles about how much a hitting coach can affect plate discipline (Moreland prefaced everything by saying he was good friends with Rudy).
My guess is that a hitting coach can have some effect on the plate discipline of younger players — particularly guys who haven’t spent a ton of time in the minors. But veterans either choose not to seek out a hitting coach (Lee, Ramirez in 2010) or are pretty set in their ways.
But I don’t really know. Aramis certainly became less patient at the plate in the past couple years. So maybe hitting coaches can affect veterans’ plate discipline …
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I just see way too many maybes and ifs for it to be a compelling argument.
Aramis may have simply become more aggressive because he felt he was letting a lot of good first pitches go by him. It may not have been a suggestion of a hitting coach at all.
I do agree that younger players in the minors are more likely to be influenced by developmental coaches, which is why I think that is more important – however I just don’t see a major league hitting coach as a vital cog in teaching patience or aggressiveness.
players tend to get more aggressive as they move past their peak
its because they need to start their bat earlier (or "cheat) to get to good fastballs, by committing earlier you end up increasing your swing % as you now have more check swings
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 17, 2012 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
That's interesting.
Given the fact that the Cubs’ core players in the past two years — other than Castro and Barney — have been guys in their early to mid 30s …
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
yeah
i think the conversation in this thread is getting stuck on the differences between approach and mechanical hitting adjustments.
I think Rudy probably talks about approach, but I’m not sure how much impact he can really have there. What he can help with is spotting mechanical issues that can help players get to a more efficient swing path or a path that is better suited to their skill set.
Thus the job of the hitting coach can be extremely hard to evaluate from a far and since we’re trying to evaluate it we focus on things we can quantify (like patience).
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 17, 2012 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
I agree.
I would say that Rudy has been known for his aggressive approach in the past. But he might not be the primary reason the Cubs were such hackers the past two years.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I'm disappointed by the lack of effect on hitting approach
A hitting coach should be working with Soriano on ways to lay off that pitch (time to use a lighter bat?), and with Byrd on how to wait for a good pitch to hit. If Jaramillo isn’t doing that, just send him packing now.
I'm not sure about how much weight RJ held with the previous manager
or what the level of authority is between manager and batting coach…but last year, if Quade said “let them be” I would think Rudy would have to do just that. I’m going to hold judgement until I see what this season brings to the plate.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 16, 2012 7:42 PM CST up reply actions
They have some of the interviews from the convention here
http://www.wgnradio.com/sports/baseball/cubs/convention2012/
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 16, 2012 3:48 PM CST reply actions
I'm sure this will go over fine with Soto.
Since he’s a patient hitter. He took 3.96 pitches per plate appearance last year and his OBP has consistently been much higher than his BA since he became the full time catcher.
DUMP GARZA. CORRECT THE COSMIC WRONG.
by shoemile on Jan 16, 2012 3:48 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
This is semi-OT.
I wonder if this team-first mindset will permeate everything they do on and around the field.
It would be nice to see all of them stand together for the anthem. Not only is it respectful, but it demonstrates unity of purpose. I suppose I’m still a bit peeved about the non-chalant manner that some of last year’s club took to this.
Hey! I caught the 3rd Castro thread!!
Couldn't agree more.
It’s a simple matter of team discipline, no matter what you think of the anthem being played.
Visiting teams do it — pretty much all of them. The Cubs should, too.
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actually, isn't the fact that it is the national anthem a big part of this argument?
otherwise, a simple matter of team discipline could be implemented/displayed in many other ways.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
This was brought up in one of the sessions (can't remember which 1)
Dale Sveum said that is 1 of his rules, for the entire team to be on the field for the anthem.
Every day is a beautiful day for baseball!!
by cowsarecool220 on Jan 16, 2012 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
but what about riding the bus together? LOL
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 16, 2012 4:22 PM CST up reply actions
"Oh, she may get wooly..."
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)
Sure.
Last year, one could tell that the group was not on the same page in a variety of ways. The anthem showing was just one example.
I am firmly in the camp that a national anthem should be given its due regard; here, or anywhere else a team could play.
(this is the easiest way to express it without pressing the shiny red politics button)
Hey! I caught the 3rd Castro thread!!
When Piniella was manager
all the Cubs stood for the anthem.
by Clark Addison on Jan 16, 2012 4:51 PM CST up reply actions
So, we can talk about Tebow in this thread, no?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jan 16, 2012 4:15 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
pssst.... just call him "Theobow" and you can proselytize to your heart's content. No one will catch on...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
well, if anyone knows about cool comments, it'd be you... ;-)
starting to get light there, yet?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I thought the Theo session
was awesome. Al’s description that he just “gets it” is spot on. I did love the comment shown above about it being the “team’s at bat”. Listening to Jed at the following session confirmed the same about him too. I’m not sure you can ask for better baseball men leading the charge. Kudos to the Ricketts for not only hiring Theo but allowing him to surround himself with the tools and people he needs.
Dallas Green!
Soto's generally a patient hitter.
He’s a god of walks when it comes to this team.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
Well, he was a god of walks.
His BB rate plummeted last year. I really hope he gets back to that approach.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Patience for the sake of patience?
Pitchers generally seek to get ahead on the count. The first pitch is frequent ly the best pitch a hitter sees.
I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
out of curiosity
do you happen to have stats to back that up? I am not saying it is true or false, just curious about them
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
That you, Rudy?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
It would be interesting to see the #s
but, IMO, this:
The first pitch is frequent ly the best pitch a hitter sees.
is an old adage that probably doesn’t hold up.
It kind of becomes one of those “I know that he knows that I know he knows… so I’ll _______”.
Meaning… if everyone believes / knows this adage then the batter should be more aggressive… and the pitcher should be more cautious since the batter is being more aggressive.
I’m pretty sure that overall, BAs go up as the count remains in a batter’s favor (1-0, 2-0, 2-1, 3-0, 3-1) and drop drastically when the pitcher takes the edge (0-1, 0-2, 1-2).
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
Jaramillo should have been gone with Riggins
Jaramillo was practically sleeping when they showed him on the bench last year, it appears he has no gameplan at all with any of his hitters to work the count. I’ll never forget game against the Dodgers in L.A. in May, the Cubs refused to work the count against Kershaw, they practically swung at every first pitch, Brenly was ready to jump out of the booth. Two weeks earlier the Cardinals faced Kershaw and gave a blueprint, they worked every pitch and had Kershaw over 100 pitches after five innings.
My guess is Jaramillo is back simply because they don’t want to pay a guy $800,000 not to coach.
Here is the box scores of the two games I mentioned to show the difference….
cubs/dodgers
http://espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=310502119
Cards/dodgers
...
My guess is Jaramillo is back simply because they don’t want to pay a guy $800,000 not to coach.
Yep…. but they’re fine paying Quade 1.5 million to not coach. And they’re fine paying Hendry a couple of million to not be the GM…. but I bet the tipping point was Jaramillo’s 800k.
Are they paying Quade that much?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
No.
IIRC, Quade is making $900,000 this year.
And a manager has quite a bit more impact on a team than a hitting coach.
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Was their any refusal from the veterans working with Rudy?
I believe I heard that some veterans had their own routine. I’d like to know which guys he was specifically working with.
Lee and Ramirez in 2010 were hesitant to work with Rudy.
IIRC, no players have come out and said that Rudy was really great to work with. I think there was something about Blake DeWitt at the end of 2010, but that didn’t exactly work out.
Riggins, amazingly, was credited with making Shark better in 2011.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Revise that.
Byrd talked about Rudy’s help when the two were in Texas. So there is that.
Of course, Byrd takes fewer pitches than just about anyone on the team …
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Still, few success stories in Chicago.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
But you're assuming that's due to Jarmillo and not in spite of him.
The talent has been declining extremely quickly over the last few years… there is a reason we’re in a full clean house mode.
Actually, I'm not.
In this thread, I’m just saying that while Rudy’s been here, the team’s offense has gotten worse.
I’ve made more strident comments before, but I still haven’t found any evidence — and, sorry, but your theories aren’t evidence — that would indicate how influential Rudy has been over the past two seasons in Chicago.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
All I'm saying is
Jaramillo has been far less of an influence than the lack of talent has been for the Cubs.
No hitting coach could make the group of guys in 2010 and 2011 patient hitters.
Well, then why were so many of them more patient in 2008?
I don’t think you can chalk everything up to the players getting older and therefore being more aggressive.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I think combo of variety of things
You have a manager last year was horrid, a hitting coach that likes people to swing, players getting older & some of the players that were added since 08 were bad to start out with.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 19, 2012 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
This... it's a mix of losing some of the patient people
Some of the people who were patient having years of bad averages (which lowers OBP), signing people on who simply weren’t very good to begin with.
All that helps contribute to lower OBP without ever taking a hitting coach into account.
For whatever reason ...
you’re unwilling to pin any blame on Rudy. Why? We can argue about the level of his culpability (and we have) but he was known for an aggressive approach when he came to Chicago.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I'm not saying that he has no effect...
I’m just saying that I think the effect is much less than people seem to think.
I’m consistent on this, however, as I also don’t really give any credit to hitting coaches on good hitting teams either. All I’m claiming is that 99% of hitting coaches are interchangeable at any point in time.
Great. Then, we're agreed.
Rudy’s either not good enough or not valuable enough to keep. Why pay $800,000 to someone who is interchangeable?
He should be fired.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Why fire someone making $800k
To hire someone making 500k and end up paying 1.3 million?
Let him finish this year up and get a new hitting coach that will be a scapegoat in 2013.
I've said in multiple threads
That the fact that Rudy preaches “aggressiveness” while a major fault with this team is “aggressiveness” is problematic. Will a new hitting coach automatically fix things? No way. But at this point, I don’t see Rudy as being beneficial to this team at the time being. I wish they would have let him go.
DUMP GARZA. CORRECT THE COSMIC WRONG.
No one knows what Rudy teaches...
That sounds like something completely taken out of context or just flat out false.
Perhaps he preaches aggressiveness on the first pitch, because he feels pitchers try to use it to get ahead in the count and it is the best pitch a hitter will see… but I doubt he goes out and works with players going, “alright fellas, let’s cut down on those walks and start swinging those bats again.”
Yes
We have a general idea of what he teaches…..from the comments he makes. Things the players say about him.
It’s ok to think hitting coaches don’t help. But to think we know don’t know what Rudy teaches is silly
I just spent 3 minutes googling him
http://www.bbtia.com/home/2009/10/7/the-case-against-rudy-jaramillo.html
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 24, 2012 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
there are a variety of positve
articles also ….
but the point is WE KNOW what he teaches
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 24, 2012 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
Thank you for doing the research, MCF.
That article is EXACTLY what I’m talking about.
DUMP GARZA. CORRECT THE COSMIC WRONG.
your welcome
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 24, 2012 3:57 PM CST up reply actions
my guess is that this sunk cost is not as big as Soriano
But there might be a quiet plan that is not seen by even well informed fans. Jaramillo might be designated for a certain group of players he has been working well with, i.e., Soriano, Byrd, Baker, Johnson (vets) but as they diminish in number and replaced by younger players Jaramillo might be jettisoned.
OR
There might be an unwritten agreement where Jaramillo had with the previous front office that he be retained regardless and the Cubs do not want to stain that reputation in the fraternity of coaches.
Either way I think it is now self-evident that the hiring of Sveum had as much to do with batter’s approach and the concept that the AB is a team AB and not individual.
Lastly got an email this AM from a clued in Yankee fan, he thinks Soriano will be wearing the dark pinstrips this year if Cubs are willing to ante up.
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
I would be shocked if the Yankees
take on Soriano. I guess maybe we eat AJ’s contract. That might work. I still would be surprised.
Another poster (D98?) has written about this ...
but the Yankees probably don’t view Soriano as some sort of prodigal son. His prime years with in New York (2001-03) were largely disappointing team wise, based on Yankee standards. They lost two World Series, and Soriano’s relative struggles in the postseason aren’t remembered kindly.
Also, I’m not sure what the Cubs would get in return. Burnett has been a bust in New York, but the Cubs are deep enough with starters at this point that they’d have to do some roster gymnastics to fit him in. Besides, do we really want Burnett? The alternative, I guess, would be low-level prospects and salary relief, though I suppose that could be fine.
I’m no Soriano defender, but he MIGHT make some sense on the 2012 team.
The Cubs have almost no right-handed power. Castro might develop some, and Soto is fine for a catcher most years. But Soriano could make some sense hitting fifth sandwiched between lefty power bats. Also, Brett Jackson’s imminent arrival would seem to make Marlon Byrd more expendable, position-wise. And the only other guy whom you might figure to be a right-handed bat in left in 2012 is Sappelt. That is, unless Cespedes ends up a Cub.
My guess is the Cubs sign Soler (but not Cespedes) trade Byrd and start the season with a centerfield rotation of Campana and Johnson, with Jackson coming to Chicago in June-July. They’ll keep Soriano, and he hits fifth to start the year. TheoJed hope he has a good season and can be flipped in July. But, if that doesn’t happen, I expect Soriano to be given his unconditional release after the season.
All bets are off if Cespedes is signed, though.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
This is probably an oversimplification...
…but I think one of the main reasons for the Jaramillo hire was to squeeze as much value as possible out of Soriano. And by that measure, he’s been somewhat successful: Alfonso has had an OPS+ over 100 in both seasons since Jaramillo arrived.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
I suppose.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I don't think an OPS+ of 100 is the benchmark.
That’s the benchmark for Darwin Barney.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
daver's point ...
is that Soriano has rebounded from a really bad 2009. But, for his salary and for him to be the shining example of why Rudy was a good hire, 100 isn’t a high enough OPS+ — especially when you consider the rest of the team’s results.
The Rudy hire was another example of Hendry sort of doubling down. He was trying to wring a winning team out of the 2007-08 nucleus, so he found a hitting coach who would supposedly help the team’s highest-paid player get back to 2007-08 production levels.
If Soriano had done that — and if Lee and Ramirez had continued their performance levels from 2009 (Lee had a great year, Ramirez was very good after he was on the DL) — maybe the team could get one more good year for Lou.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Yes, that was pretty much my point.
I got the impression the team may have panicked a bit after Soriano’s dreadful 2009 and was looking for help — like I said — squeezing as much as they could from him in the remaining (gulp) five years of his contract.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
I wonder if Rudy was also seen as someone who could work well with Kosuke.
Kosuke had improved upon his disappointing rookie season, and maybe Hendry thought Rudy could make him what we all hoped he would be.
Of course, the real problems in 2010 were the early struggles by Lee and Ramirez and the porous bullpen. Hendry probably felt like a cartoon character who would plug a hole in the boat to have another hole splash water in his face.
Of course, he’s the one who built a very expensive boat that was prone to leaking …
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Or snuck some cushions behind the ivy in left field...
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
OK, let me try again then:
.238 and .225 — those are Soriano’s ISOs in 2010 and 2011. If he can do little else beside slug at this point in his career, he’s done that and one could argue that Jaramillo has helped him do so. (I believe the two are seen working together before nearly every Cubs home game.)
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
How is Soriano going to drive in runs
With a whole bunch of dudes clogging up the bases in front of him?
by subtle on Jan 18, 2012 6:59 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Is it harder to use a smart phone while chewin' on a toothpick?
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
The wristbands really make it tough.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I hope the Cubs lead the league in number of pitches seen per at bat real soon
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
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