Geovany Soto Signs For $4.3 Million
Tweet from Jon Heyman. This avoids an arb hearing for Geo. Other Cubs arb eligible players are: Matt Garza, Chris Volstad, Randy Wells, Blake DeWitt, Ian Stewart and Jeff Baker.
4 months ago
Al Yellon
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joy
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
I was hearing estimates around $4M
But, I’d argue that he’s more valuable than that so i’m just fine with $4.3M.
Garza, Baker, DeWitt, Volstad, Stewart & Wells still to go….
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra
Gordo just tweeted that some other arb-avoidance deals are close.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Bam
Beat you by 1 second.
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by Brett Taylor on Jan 17, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
Will post them in this thread if/when they are announced.
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Wittenmyer says
The Cubs are close on deals with a number of the remaining six.
Bleacher Nation - Cubs Rumors and News
Sounds
good to me, interested to hear the other deals.
You can be whatever you want to be, just put your mind to it and work hard! -Dad
On the master list, I'd like to see them do a Danks-type deal with Garza
But take pot luck on the rest. Did they actually tender an offer to DeWitt?
To everybody but Koyie, I think.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Right.
Doesn’t mean DeWitt can’t still be let go or traded.
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Boy talk about unloved - "We made an offer to Blake DeWitt but not to you."
Wonder if Koyie’s dog growled at him when he went home.
$4.3 Mil?
Wow – you can buy a lotta ummm stuff for that..I hope he invests wisely and doesn’t let his money all go up in smoke. Although, you can’t stop some folks.They are just ganja spend their money.
Not funny!
It’s in the past. Enough of the jokes..let it go already!
by Swoosie on Jan 17, 2012 2:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
Almost as bad as your incessant use of the Prior towel joke....almost.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
At least the Prior towel joke was baseball-related.
And ongoing, instead of what was being discussed here, which was a one-time thing that has not been repeated.
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by Al Yellon on Jan 17, 2012 8:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
One time thing
Geo was probably a daily user but in your naivete, he probably doesn’t smoke weed any longer. Stop with the hero worship of these players. For the most part, they don’t want it nor do they deserve it.
BTW, the Prior towel jokes were never funny….ever, imho.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
I think
You’re spending way too much time being upset about dumb comments. But then again, I’m spending too much time replying. Love teh internets.
Anyway – please see below, rewarding low performance with big contracts doesn’t make sense or fit with the heralded new philosophy. Psychologically – if you reward low performance (with $ etc) you are incenting low performance. Yes you can build in incentives for awards etc, not what I am talking about.
If I hire you to paint my house and you only paint the windows and I pay you more money because I hope you will do better in the future, Im going to get crappy performance out of you, not better.
Its not enough for a player to feel like they have to earn their contract.
As Arbusto stated some think they are the arbiters of funny around here.
I would not say anything regarding Al’s gratuitous use of the “towel joke” but considering that every time someone makes a joke about Geo’s weed use (which certainly didn’t happen one time) and they get lambasted about it, I feel the need to respond. I get tired of the attitude around here that some of these players are beyond reproach.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jan 17, 2012 10:14 PM CST up reply actions
Seriously, dude
… no, I don’t think Soto just used weed “one time”. What I was referring to was that it was made public ONCE, he apologized and said he wouldn’t do it again, and to our knowledge, has not. It is not related to his baseball performance, and I didn’t think it was funny then and it’s less funny now.
Again, the Prior towel thing was at least baseball-related.
Speaking of “arbiters of funny”, aren’t you doing exactly that?
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by Al Yellon on Jan 18, 2012 7:17 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Depends on how you feel about the severity of what he did, I'd suspect.
DUMP GARZA. CORRECT THE COSMIC WRONG.
Ok - fine
I get it. Just because defending myself on the internet is very important, I’ve made no Prior towel jokes. I must be getting confused with someone else who makes bad jokes. Next time I’ll say something like “seems to be alot of money for a player whose WAR/OBP drops every time he gets a raise.” I know there arent that many good catchers in the game, but last year among all catchers (counting any games played) he was 50th in OBP. Our good friend Hank White was 35th in limited plate appearances. $5 Mil isnt that much to the Cubs, but if you are trying to build a character team – you’ve just rewarded poor performance and a (old?) character issue with a raise. I know every time someone at work gets promoted that people dont respect, it doesnt build much morale or contribute to work ethic. I do like alot of what Theo/Jed are doing, but this one doesn’t add up to me.
PS – stop making me think so hard about baseball. I had to Google stuff to come up with that.
PPS – Its probably better than whatever else I was googling.
You're making pretty much zero sense to me.
You keep defending yourself to people who have no problem about the jokes you’re making.
DUMP GARZA. CORRECT THE COSMIC WRONG.
Seriously defending yourself on the internet is important?
Did anyone ever seen the XKCD comic about this.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 18, 2012 8:54 AM CST up reply actions
So you're basically admitting...
…that you’re just cherry-picking stats that support your case against Geo, which seems oddly focused on a fairly benign character “flaw” exhibited a couple of years ago. I’m pretty sure if you asked any member of the Cubs whether they respect Geovany Soto, they would say, “Yes.”
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
point was
We are rewarding poor performance. He didn’t have a good year last year with a bat.
He's a catcher.
That’s a premium defensive position — his value is determined by much more than his bat. And his career batting line is still more than solid. Paying $4.3 million for a 28-year-old catcher who can put up a 2.1 fWAR in even a down season is an excellent signing by the Cubs, IMHO.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
by daver on Jan 18, 2012 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
He’s a catcher. That’s a premium defensive position — his value is determined by much more than his bat.
I tried using that logic on Koyie Hill, but got nothing but grief. I still think he was worth more than people around here were willing to believe.
The best husband in the world is going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Cubs Fantasy camp!
Katie
I know you liked him as a player, but when 26 hits in 153 PA’s I think then offensive #’s do play a part.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 18, 2012 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
Unfortunately, Koyie's offensive contributions...
…were so low that he would’ve had to have been one of the greatest defensive catchers of all time to make up for the value.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Oh, I know I'm being irrational.
I just think people were a little overboard with hating him.
The best husband in the world is going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Cubs Fantasy camp!
As a Koyie hater
It all really circled back to being fed up with Hendry’s way of doing things. The guy was bad, yet Hendry kept bringing him back (when he wasn’t contractually obligated to do so). Eventually the only logical explanation was that Hendry was doing the guy a favor. Of course, Al still thinks it was Piniella’s fault that Koyie was on the team in 2011, so that stance exists too, I guess.
DUMP GARZA. CORRECT THE COSMIC WRONG.
The 2011 team?
What? Lou was gone by then.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Of course, Al still thinks it was Piniella’s fault that Koyie was on the team in 2011, so that stance exists too, I guess.
Oh, for heaven’s sake. No, I do not think that.
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No, you completely misinterpreted what I said.
Hill was on the team because Lou wanted a lefthanded hitting backup catcher.
In other words, LOU BROUGHT HILL TO THE CUBS.
Yes, Jim Hendry decided to keep him past the time Lou was gone. Lou was not responsible for him being on the 2011 team. I never said that. Stop putting words in my mouth.
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Well, you're still wrong though.
LOU BROUGHT HILL TO THE CUBS.
No matter how many times you want to say it, it doesn’t make it true. Jim Hendry was the GM. How long are you going to argue against the facts with hearsay, Al?
Lou was not responsible for him being on the 2011 team. I never said that.
but…
For one thing, that’s why Koyie Hill is still on this team. Lou had an obsession with LH-hitting backup catchers (go look at some of the other teams he managed). The Cubs would have been better off keeping Henry Blanco — even to this day.
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by Al Yellon on Mar 15, 2011 8:45 AM EDT up actions
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2011/3/14/2050213/how-do-you-think-q-will-be-different-from-lou
Emphasis mine.
So either you misspoke or changed your mind. Both are obviously understandable. But don’t claim I’m putting words in your mouth when I’m just repeating what you said.
DUMP GARZA. CORRECT THE COSMIC WRONG.
Do you not understand what I am saying?
Lou wanted a LH hitting backup catcher. His GM got him one. Why is that so difficult to understand?
Now, that 3/15/11 post is obviously a misstatement. OK? I was wrong about that.
Let’s stop here. I’m done discussing this issue.
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It's not difficult to understand.
You’ve just taken it to the extreme all the while absolving Hendry of the decision that was solely his. If you can prove that Lou FORCED Jim to sign Koyie, then I will absolutely agree with your stance. Until then, you’re dealing with hearsay (what Lou wanted and how badly, what his level of input was) while I’m dealing with fact (Jim signed players). Wanting something is different from getting something. But I guess we’ll never agree on that. so I’ll drop it.
DUMP GARZA. CORRECT THE COSMIC WRONG.
Really, you've taken this way too far.
No one “forced” anything. Lou made it clear he wanted a LH-hitting backup catcher — even though Henry Blanco had done a good job.
IT APPEARS Hendry did his manager a favor. It’s very clear to me that Hendry gave both Dusty and Lou way more input on roster selection than they should have had.
Hill must have ingratiated himself enough to stick around past Lou time.
Fair enough? I can’t prove anything. But neither can you.
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I can prove Jim Hendry was the GM.
And I can prove GM’s sign players. So you’re only half right in saying neither of us can prove anything. But okay Al, if Alfonso Soriano says he would prefer to bat leadoff this year and Sveum puts him there, I look forward to you trashing Soriano while making excuses for Sveum.
DUMP GARZA. CORRECT THE COSMIC WRONG.
Do me a favor and prove that Hendry signed Soriano to his current deal.
Because I can provide a lot of evidence showing that Macdonough was the one that offered additional years and finalized the contract.
So you can prove Hendry's superior signed him?
Cool! Now prove someone below Hendry (who, let’s face it, wouldn’t even know how to draw up a contract) was able to go behind management’s back to get a player signed.
Honestly, the Hendry defense can be absolutely bewildering sometimes.
DUMP GARZA. CORRECT THE COSMIC WRONG.
I'm not saying what I did to defend Hendry... I don't care to go there.
However, there is no need to pin ADDITIONAL things on Hendry either. It’s not uncommon for head coaches to have a major influence on decisions their GM makes.
Look at a case like Jeff Fischer with the Rams – he has no GM and they are saying that whoever they hire will technically “sign the contracts” but will be more of a 50/50 split on decisions with Fischer.
Yeah, but that's a totally different situation.
There’s no GM in St. Louis, like you said. It’s an uncomfortable situation (like the Bears, oof), but I just see no reason to believe that’s what happened in Chicago. I don’t doubt Jim listened. I just have a serious issue with Al’s all caps statement that Lou is the reason Koyie is with the Cubs. It’s just illogical, and the deflection of blame toward Hendry the past however many years has driven me absolutely bonkers. Only when everyone left/resigned/got fired and the Cubs were left with Jim, a dismal team, and little to no help in the minors did folks stop and go “hey, maybe this Hendry fellow isn’t so good after all.” (Just kidding. CRAAAANNNEE!!!!) Hendry destroyed my favorite baseball team. He was the problem all along, and it bums me out Jim was allowed to wreak havoc for so long, and that reasonable folks like Al are still having a tough time accepting that.
But I totally agree, I don’t like pinning additional things on folks. That’s pretty much what started this sub thread in the first place.
DUMP GARZA. CORRECT THE COSMIC WRONG.
Katie...
you really didn’t follow the Koyie Hill Hate Crowd’s discussions then…I was the president. We didn’t hate him for how he played…and he sucked…badly. Koyie Hill was simply the incarnation of the idiocy of Jim Hendry in player form. It’s not really fair to Hill, but that’s where the hate came from. If he’d been paid like the player he was, and the manager had used him for what he was….most everyone with pitchforks and torches would never had cared. Again, that’s really on Hendry and Quade too.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 18, 2012 3:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for explaining.
I guess I didn’t really make the connection with Hendry..
The best husband in the world is going to the 2012 Randy Hundley Cubs Fantasy camp!
Well put SWL
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 18, 2012 5:16 PM CST up reply actions
Since when is 28 year old catcher old?
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 18, 2012 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
Worth more than double that, maybe triple.
Awesome deal. One of the 10 best in the league.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Only in even numbered years.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 17, 2012 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
It WAS 4.25M but Geo insisted on a $500,000 allotment for eyeliner...
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)
by Zeke on Jan 17, 2012 3:25 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
This is a steal
According to (semi-experimental) advanced catcher metrics, he was the best defensive catcher in baseball last year. – http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/another-one-bites-the-dust/
Soto kills him on extra strikes gained due to pitch framing
by BrooksMarlin on Jan 17, 2012 4:26 PM CST up reply actions
I'm definitely with you on Molina
being the better overall catcher.
But I’d be interested to know/learn more about the “extra strikes” factor. I kind of doubt any of us have good enough eyeballs to make a definitive statement on that component of catching.
Now, does it overrule what you and I (and lots of others) see as advantages for Molina in other areas? I wouldn’t think so.
I would draw a different conclusion… Geo is better defensively than many Cub fans give him credit for.
And, FWIW… I didn’t see anything in the link that did say Soto was the best defensive catcher in baseball. He wasn’t mentioned anywhere I could see on the “extra strikes” component.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
It's interesting but impossible to quantify...
You’ve got dozens of different umpires with a different implied strike zone. Although there is the general “pitch fx” box of what should be a strike, sometimes umpires entire zones are shifted high or low for a game for whatever reason, and those would be counted as “framed strikes” when the catcher possibly had nothing to do with it.
I do agree that Geo is better defensively that he gets credit for – I have no issues with saying that, and I didn’t mean to imply I thought he was bad. I simply said what I said above because it’s an impossible debate.
No actually they've done a fairly good job of quantifying it
You clearly haven’t looked at the stat, you’re just assuming it’s wrong.
I should clarify...
I understand they did a good job working with the data they had… assuming all data remains consistent between teams, pitchers, umpires etc is incorrect and impossible to quantify.
I refuse to believe that there are catchers that saved 28 more runs than their peers over 120 games. That would mean that catcher was the most valuable player in baseball bar none.
Need to realize this is an ARBITRATION 2 figure, it should be about 60% of his fair market value.
It’s not a steal when you factor those things in, it’s simply a fair deal.
Matt Garza
Filed at $10.225m. Cubs offered $7.95m.
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so
they negotiate? Or it goes to arb?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 17, 2012 6:05 PM CST up reply actions
Cole Hamels just signed for 15 mill
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Could
be better, could be worse, right?
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jan 17, 2012 5:08 PM CST reply actions
the return of The Franchise!
@CarrieMuskat
DeWitt signed for $1.1 million; Soto $4.3 million; Stewart $2.237 mill; Baker $1.375 mill; Wells $2.705; Volstad $2.655 million. #Cubs
Just wee-un.
BLAKE DEWITT!!!!!!
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
by Hammer on Jan 17, 2012 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
And Theo said
Today, I settle all family business.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
DeWitt and Baker
Honestly, I could live without one, or both of them not coming back next year. Baker is marginally more valuable because he truly mashes lefties. But, there are reason’s these guys have never won a full time job.
Wells was never truly healthy last year. I always felt he was hurting more than we knew. Interesting to see how he fights for a job in Spring Training. Good price for him and Volstad.
All of these signings are the easy ones. Garza will be the one to watch. Does he agree, or with the amount Hamels got does he go the arb route? Does Hoyer attempt a multi-year deal? That’s the drama I’m watching.
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