Why haven't more teams inquired about Carlos Marmol?

by ASTARLINISBORN on Jan 22, 2012 5:13 AM CST

Since we all know this team is in rebuild mode and other GM's obviously know that as well it seems like more teams should be inquiring about Marmol in my opinion. Carlos would be very valuable to a playoff contending team in 2012. I do think Carlos would be so much more valuable in the 8th inning role rather than the closer role to a team like the Tigers or Red sox or Phillies or a team like that. Do you think Theo and Jed have been contacted about Carlos? What kind of mid prospect/high prospect could Theo and Jed get in return? If any? Marmol doesn't really fit into our plans two or three years down the road does he? so lets get something for him why not right? If Tyler colvin and DJ can land us our starting 3rd baseman in 2012 what can a guy with the kind of stuff that Carlos has land us? just sayin. I am totally fine with Shark or even Russell closing in '12 if dealing Marmol can help us down the road. Thoughts

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I'm not sure what Marmol could bring the Cubs.

K-Rod was traded for cash and two average prospects. Mike Adams was traded for two average prospects. Andrew Bailey was traded basically for a flyer pitching prospect.

After a down year, and with a big contract… maybe Marmol is worth a flyer guy too? Epstein probably thinks the Cubs have an outside shot at the division, and Marmol is capable of putting up those jaw-dropping numbers that could make another team overpay midseason to appease their fanbase. So why not hold onto him a bit longer.

by YaoPau on Jan 22, 2012 5:46 AM CST reply actions

Well stated.

As a fan I am not one to give up and or trade him. You coined it "Marmol is capable of putting up those jaw-dropping numbers "

by wild bill on Jan 22, 2012 6:31 AM CST up reply actions

part of strategy two

Have Marmol and Soto go FA after 2013 and possibly gain a supplemental pick. OR if Marmol regains his monster stuff than trade him at his height.

Marmol is not ripe yet.

A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight

by Ivy Walls on Jan 22, 2012 12:08 PM CST up reply actions

One problem with that

is the possibility that they accept. I’m not sure I know of any cases where salary went down through that process… and if he doesn’t “turn it around” I’m not sure we want Marmol around with a eight figure salary.

Soto is more of a maybe… but I’m really in favor of dealing him in the fairly near future. Catchers tend to fall off after 30 and he is closing in on that age. That doesn’t mean he couldn’t be productive… but he might be “old” and expensive for that production.

"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."

by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST

by fsuapollo on Jan 22, 2012 3:18 PM CST up reply actions

agree esp on Soto

Marmol if he rebounds two years like Papalbon

A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight

by Ivy Walls on Jan 22, 2012 8:49 PM CST up reply actions

Mike Adams was traded for two average prospects

… you mean two top 50 prospects??

by bdlugz on Jan 22, 2012 9:39 AM CST up reply actions

Padres/Adams

Neither is a top 50 prospect. That said both are excelent prospects. A HUGE haul for a set up guy. both rank in a deep Padres system.

scoutingthesally.com scouting service $17.95. Very cool service check it out.

by cubsfan1 on Jan 22, 2012 10:05 AM CST up reply actions

According to some sites, both are. Erlin almost ALWAYS is.

100 Prospect List

by bdlugz on Jan 22, 2012 5:19 PM CST up reply actions

At first glance, I thought you had typed "Erin"...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 22, 2012 6:10 PM CST up reply actions

If Erin is anything like my wife...

She’s got a great stare down. Scares batters right out of the box.

by bdlugz on Jan 22, 2012 7:11 PM CST up reply actions

Let the staredown contest begin!

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 22, 2012 8:21 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs

overrated

clap clap clap clap clap

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Jan 22, 2012 10:18 PM CST up reply actions

aww... you hurt Drewsie's feelings...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 23, 2012 12:07 AM CST up reply actions

Not at all.

by Dcr18 on Jan 23, 2012 6:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Isn't it wierd

when people sort of fold their arms and say “meh” to a woman who is probably more beautiful than anyone they’ve seen in person in the last month? That only happens on the internet.

by tomas21 on Jan 24, 2012 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

I didn't say meh

I said overrated

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Jan 25, 2012 11:59 AM CST up reply actions

he

could go at the trade deadline.lets see if he can turn things around.cashner and marshall are gone and this might be kerry’s last year so who else could close?

by NOMAR on Jan 22, 2012 7:08 AM CST reply actions

Actually, I agree with this.

Marmol showed up at the Cubs Convention looking far slimmer than last year. If he’s back in shape, maybe he could recover his 2010 form.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 22, 2012 8:02 AM CST up reply actions

besides

closers who walk the bases loaded every other start are not in high demand

by NOMAR on Jan 22, 2012 7:13 AM CST reply actions

Did you see the Ryan Madson deal?

Francisco Cordero is still available too. There isn’t a market for expensive closers.

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Jan 22, 2012 8:58 AM CST reply actions

Especially not ones who led the league in blown saves.....

by ClarkFan on Jan 22, 2012 11:39 AM CST up reply actions

Bingo

Why trade for Marmol when you can sign Francisco Cordero for cheap?

by Josh Timmers on Jan 22, 2012 4:48 PM CST up reply actions

They heard you in Toronto.

"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach

by daver on Jan 25, 2012 11:20 AM CST up reply actions

Not something everybody agrees with,

but to me relievers are a dime a dozen, and too volatile to commit large salaries to.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jan 22, 2012 9:06 AM CST reply actions

Agreed for the most part, but there are SOME relievers that don't follow that rule.

Marmol is not one.

by bdlugz on Jan 22, 2012 9:39 AM CST up reply actions

No reason to trade him now as his value is too low

wait and if he gets off to a dominating start, then deal him.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jan 22, 2012 9:11 AM CST reply actions

I agree with most here. I think other GMs would like to see which Carlos Marmol is

going to show up in 2012. So many closers are like lightning in a bottle each year. If Marmol regains his form, he could bring a lot at the deadline for a competing team with a failing or injured closer.

by the nth on Jan 22, 2012 10:35 AM CST reply actions

Because his value is low.

It’s the same as Soto, Theo isn’t going to sell low on a guy who could bounce back and be worth much more at the deadline. And who would use him as a set up man when he is paid 7+ and 9+ million over the next two years? Trade him when he raises his value again.

by Dcr18 on Jan 22, 2012 10:36 AM CST reply actions

makes sense

i guess im hoping now marmol can regain the form and pitch lights out before the trade deadline like some of you guys said, a contending team will overpay, theo will steal a prospect(or two) that can be a piece for us here in a few years. A win-win for me personally because i do like carlos alot would love to see him succeed down the road

by ASTARLINISBORN on Jan 22, 2012 11:34 AM CST reply actions

Just based on my observations

When Marmol is on, he’s tough to hit. The slider he possesses can be pretty nasty in those instances. The biggest problem Marmol has is that he’s streaky. When he’s off, he’s just not that good. The slider gets too flat and Marmol’s walks, which are already a problem, get worse. When he has to rely on his fastball, he’s not fooling anyone. Marmol also isn’t coming off a season where teams will trade for him.

RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
If you disagree with me in any way, you are wrong.

by Ace Venom on Jan 22, 2012 12:27 PM CST reply actions

My view on Marmol last season

was that he threw the slider WAY to much, and didn’t use his fastball to set it up like he did in years past. He was throwing it so much that hitters learned to lay off and then he couldn’t surprise them. I don’t know how often he throws the slider for strikes, but if that’s the pitch you are throwing at strike one and can’t get it over, you’re in for problems.

"IN THEO WE TRUST"

by BigJohnAZ on Jan 22, 2012 6:18 PM CST up reply actions

Last year his slider looked flatter than ever

His fastball speed went down too. Hopefully it was only because he was out of shape.

by Mitchener on Jan 23, 2012 3:42 AM CST up reply actions

So Marmol is in better shape

which could mean a better year. This may not correlate though. I am more concerned about what’s in his head.

He may never have another “2010”. It seems that hitters just wait on his fastball now. This explains some of 2011’s failure.

I don’t think he’s impressive enough to garner attention this off-season. He could draw some value at the deadline. But, if he’s doing that well by July, we may choose to keep him.

Ezekiel 25:17

by Tat14 on Jan 22, 2012 1:17 PM CST reply actions

Marmol's trade value probably picked in 2010

With Marmol’s salary at $16.8 MM over the next 2 seasons and then free agency, he is definitely not a trade steal for another team. Too much money and not enough controllable years.

And baseball-wise, the book may be out on Marmol after the 2010 season. From 2010 to 2011, the following changed with Marmol:

First Pitch Strike: from to 62.7% down to 52.3%.
Contact : from 61.3 up to 71.3%.
Fastball Speed: from 94.1 mph down to 91.8 mph
Change Up : from 0.6 up to 6.8% with a speed of 86.1 mph

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum

by RiskyBusiness on Jan 22, 2012 2:06 PM CST reply actions 1 recs

And in conclusion

I think the book on Marmol is to wait him out and make him throw strikes over the plate. And with his fastball being slower, he had more balls put in play.

I don’t think Marmol is the type of that teams want to trade for in terms of salary and baseball for 2012. Maybe during 2013 for a team needing another bullpen arm to get into the post-season.

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum

by RiskyBusiness on Jan 22, 2012 2:14 PM CST up reply actions

I hope he isn't injured.

That could ruin any chance at a decent season very quickly.

The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney

by SouthWabashSoul on Jan 22, 2012 8:53 PM CST up reply actions

i havent looked at the pitch f/x release point data

but my speculation has been that he is pitching through some “discomfort” that is causing his arm angle to drop. Historically when his arm angle has dropped his command has faded, his velocity has dipped, and his slider has lost some bit. It used to happen in situations when he had pitched 5 times in 7 days or something crazy like that (Pineilla days), but last yr it seemed like he was pitching tired the whole season.

again, just my anecdotal observations. havent confirmed with some of the tools that would verify the release point relative to 2009

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 22, 2012 9:53 PM CST up reply actions

This is the answer.

He’s relatively expensive and on shaky ground results-wise.

"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach

by daver on Jan 25, 2012 11:26 AM CST up reply actions

The guy is simply not

a top 10, elite closer

by Asul on Jan 22, 2012 2:20 PM CST reply actions

not consistently, but there are stretches when he is as unhittable as anyone

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jan 22, 2012 4:22 PM CST up reply actions

He's one of the most expensive relief pitchers in MLB. And he was very bad last year.

That isn’t a combo that is going to have teams knocking your door down.

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by D98 on Jan 22, 2012 6:02 PM CST up reply actions

Not now, but if he starts off like he couple of years ago ...

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jan 23, 2012 7:25 AM CST up reply actions

We could say the same thing about Derrek Lee.

I don’t think anyone is going to be lining up to grab that contract. Why would they, when substantially better closers go for less?

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 23, 2012 7:55 AM CST up reply actions

D-Lee might wind up like Jermaine Dye.

He might get a low-dollar offer and refuse it, thinking he could get more — only to sit at home.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 23, 2012 8:34 AM CST up reply actions

That's more or less what I'm saying.

No one is lining up to pay big money to someone in the hopes they may regain their form from 2 years ago.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 23, 2012 10:44 AM CST up reply actions

as I said, probably not now, but if he comes out blazing ...

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jan 23, 2012 5:00 PM CST up reply actions

I've been thinking this, too.

Hope it doesn’t happen to DLee. I’d rather see him go out on his own terms. But it might.

"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach

by daver on Jan 25, 2012 11:23 AM CST up reply actions

maybe so,

there is a mentality out there that closers are like hockey goalies. Many teams think they are easily replaced and therefore not worth the big bucks.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jan 23, 2012 8:46 AM CST up reply actions

There aren't many teams that are looking to spend $8MM on their 8th inning guy.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 22, 2012 6:02 PM CST reply actions

Does Theo have Hank Steinbrenner's number on his speed dial?

by ClarkFan on Jan 22, 2012 8:14 PM CST up reply actions

Here’s a question about Marmol.

If he is hurt or fails during the season what direction do they go for closer?

If they are in contention I’d say go to Kerry at least at first.

If they aren’t I still would like to see Spellcheck be given a shot at it.

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Jan 22, 2012 6:13 PM CST reply actions

I'd say your first situation isn't much of an issue...

For who it would be, I’d assume Carpenter or Dolis if they are up.

by bdlugz on Jan 22, 2012 7:12 PM CST up reply actions

And we thought Marmol walks a lot of people

The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney

by SouthWabashSoul on Jan 22, 2012 8:54 PM CST up reply actions

Are you referring to Carp?

He had some control issues after they changed his mechanics when he went to the pen. He seems to have gotten it under control, with a very strong K/BB ratio through the AFL.

He never had serious control issues in the minors in the past, no reason to think he would moving forward.

by bdlugz on Jan 22, 2012 9:13 PM CST up reply actions

K/BB ratio is a very overrated stat

Carpenter’s career minor league ratio is 1.82:1. Supposedly 2:1 is considered good but that is not always the case. A guy who Ks 10and walks 5 per 9IP has the much hyped 2:1 ratio but cannot seriously be calloed a guy with good control (see Marmol, Carlos).

If you want to judge control, look at BB/9IP. Carpenter has averaged 4/9IP in his career in the minors, not terrible, but certainly not good either. BTW, in AAA it is 6/9IP, not even remotely acceptable. Glad to hear he showed more control in the AFL, but he still has a lot to prove. Hopefully he will.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jan 23, 2012 7:37 AM CST up reply actions

Okay...

And before he went to AAA in 2011 he had a 1.32 BB/9 and a 2.92 BB/9 in as many innings as he pitched in AAA.

He lost his mechanics a bit in AAA and in the majors, but like I said, he regained it back to the tune of about 2.5 BB/9 in the AFL in a very good showing.

Also, his last full year in 2010, he had a 3.61 BB/9 in 130 innings, which is perfectly acceptable for a power pitcher with high K totals.

by bdlugz on Jan 23, 2012 7:59 AM CST up reply actions

If he can keep his BB rate to under 4/9IP,

he can be successful

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jan 23, 2012 8:44 AM CST up reply actions

They both walk less than Marmol.

by Dcr18 on Jan 23, 2012 6:30 PM CST up reply actions

Wait....

You are fine with Russell closing? Barf!

by ferris2001 on Jan 22, 2012 8:15 PM CST reply actions

Russell is a good reliever.

But definitely not the type of guy you want closing.

by Dcr18 on Jan 23, 2012 6:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

I'd keep him and trade him at the deadline.

It’s purely a mechanics problem. His armslot dips below his shoulder, which causes a dearth of problems including loss of control.

I’ve been saying this for years, but at least Rothschild did something about it so it didn’t linger for the whole season like it did with Riggins.

Tom Brady. Nuff said.

by Cub Style on Jan 22, 2012 8:57 PM CST reply actions

How do you know...

…they haven’t been contacted?

The other thing is this; I think a lot of teams are starting to see how closers can go from being dominant to quite bad and they are leary of giving up a lot for a guy who hasn’t been consistent.

What makes Carlos good (his violent delivery) makes him hard to pick up. The problem is, this same violent delivery, causes him to lose command when his release point is not right on and that is hard to do all the time with his delivery.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jan 23, 2012 12:15 PM CST reply actions

And that's also why I think

… him being out of shape last year might have led to that release point being wrong.

If he’s back in shape, that could fix the problem quickly.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 23, 2012 1:14 PM CST up reply actions

No excuse...

…for a pitching coach to allow any of his pitchers to be out of condition. That guy last year was a real joke.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jan 23, 2012 2:24 PM CST up reply actions

Agreed.

Don’t know if Chris Bosio is the right answer, but he could not possibly be worse than Mark Riggins.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 23, 2012 3:44 PM CST up reply actions

I haven't thrown a baseball in two years

and I’d still be a better pitching coach than Mark Riggins.

by JOVE23 on Jan 23, 2012 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

I've never played baseball or softball

I might be better.

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 24, 2012 2:51 PM CST up reply actions

Something that always annoys me about this statement

If any of us decided we didn’t want to prepared for our jobs over the course of a time a baseball season is….

many would spend more time on BCB due to unemployment

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 24, 2012 2:54 PM CST up reply actions

I haven't thrown a baseball in two years

What does that have to do with being a good pitching coach?

by Walt on Jan 23, 2012 11:06 PM CST reply actions

Nothing...

… but he’d still be a better pitching coach than Mark Riggins.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 24, 2012 7:10 AM CST up reply actions

Marmol

Here’s another thing. How do we know teams aren’t calling about Marmol?

Nothing happens unless it's first a dream

by puckishcubsfan on Jan 24, 2012 8:08 AM CST reply actions

This was exactly my thought.

Reminds me of all the fanposts in June suggesting that Hendry was definitely coming back because we had yet to hear publicly that changes would be made. We don’t know everything, and usually when we do know something it’s either because a deal is imminent and cant be kept secret any longer, or because one side or the other in negotiations has an agenda that would be advanced by leaking rumors to the press.

The lack of public discussion about Marmol doesn’t mean there is or isn’t private discussion about him.

by Orval Overall on Jan 28, 2012 1:07 PM CST up reply actions