Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Full Coverage of 2012 Coke 600

Once the leagues realign, MLB really should have one set of rules. Should they have the DH in both leagues, or neither? Written by me for Baseball Nation.

4 months ago Alyellontoppscard_tiny Al Yellon 80 comments 0 recs  | 

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Soriano's value would double!

That would open up 14 additional trade partners. Even though I am anti-DH, I’m REALLY anti Soriano (who isn’t).

by Bigp2287 on Jan 23, 2012 10:42 AM CST reply actions  

I'm anti DH, but,

i’m more anti watching terrible pitchers attempt to hit. Its NOT baseball the way matt garza gets up and slaps at a ball, it IS baseball the way Ryan Dempster throws down a bunt. It’s usually pretty ugly to watch a pitcher hit. For the aesthetic of the game bring on the DH or improve pitchers hitting.

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Jan 23, 2012 10:51 AM CST reply actions  

If there wasn't a league

Where half the teams’ pitchers didn’t have to bat, pitchers hitting likely would improve…

by EcoGeek on Jan 23, 2012 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Not necessarily true.

In 2011, NL pitchers hit .142/.177/.184 in 5611 plate appearances, with 27 home runs.

In 2011, AL pitchers hit .119/.137/.162 in 312 plate appearances, with 1 HR.

In 1972, the year before the DH rule was adopted, MLB pitchers hit .146/.184/.184 with 47 HR in 10,429 plate appearances.

The ability of pitchers to hit has really not changed at all. They were bad 40 years ago and are still bad.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jan 23, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

so essentially...

2011 NL pitchers were Carlos Pena
2011 AL pitchers were Adam Dunn

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Jan 23, 2012 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

You missed my point entirely.

Not only that, Pena was a whole lot better than that.

Dunn… wasn’t.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jan 23, 2012 12:45 PM CST up reply actions  

damn...

you are quite the literal chap today arent you?

where’s the stupid saracasm tage…

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Jan 23, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Heh.

Sorry. Use this:

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jan 23, 2012 12:58 PM CST up reply actions  

thanks.

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Jan 23, 2012 12:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Free for anyone's use!

Can’t take credit for creating it, though.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jan 23, 2012 1:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Your numbers

Seem to prove my point more than yours.

NL pitchers hit pretty closely to where they did 40 years ago. AL pitchers hit with a roughly 15% worse batting average. I wouldn’t expect NL pitchers to be any better than they were pre-DH, but it makes sense that AL pitchers are hitting worse than they did pre-DH.

Perhaps the differences aren’t statistically significant (I’m no statistician), but they at least trend with my hypothesis…

by EcoGeek on Jan 23, 2012 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes, but my point is...

… they’re all bad and not getting any better. The DH isn’t a new suggestion — owners were talking about it in the 1920s. If they had done it then, it probably would have gone in both leagues.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jan 23, 2012 2:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Putting the DH in the NL would suck...

…I can hardly stand to watch AL baseball. No strategy. Barely a bunt. No pitching around hitters to get to a pitcher – who in turn gets pinch hit for late in a game. Al…do you have a “length of game” chart comparing NL games to AL games? It may just seem like it , but, AL games seem to last longer and I think it’s got a lot to do with the DH. For instance…if a pitcher is due up in the inning in the NL late in a game, he’ll get lifted…whereas in the AL, that same pitcher would be allowed to take the mound the next inning and probably get pulled after one hitter or so. I just don’t like the DH rule.

by Easy Ed on Jan 23, 2012 1:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah...good point...

…it is usually the Yankees I’ll watch. Sometimes the White Sox (if desperate), and Harrelson could make the Olympic 100 meters seem long.

by Easy Ed on Jan 23, 2012 4:13 PM CST up reply actions  

also, this is something i yelled at you about when you kept writing the "give marmol a ring" posts...
But is it fair to have one team have to do it during a pennant race while others don’t?

The whole season is a pennant race. Every game counts!

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Jan 23, 2012 10:56 AM CST reply actions  

Of course every game counts.

But if you are one game behind in September, that game carries more importance at that moment.

It’s not fair to make one team play by different rules for that game, than they play the rest of the year.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jan 23, 2012 11:31 AM CST up reply actions  

so lets do this...all games against interleague opponents will come first...

then all games against non division opponents will come next and then the division will be the last set of games so that everyone has proper happy fun fair times…..

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Jan 23, 2012 12:24 PM CST up reply actions  

You can't do that..

… because with 15-team leagues, you have to have at least one interleague series every day.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jan 23, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Finally, something for the Interleague Purist

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum

by RiskyBusiness on Jan 23, 2012 12:39 PM CST up reply actions  

HUGE JOKE....

kinda thought it was obvious. my point is, you play the games when they are scheduled. if you’re pitcher is hitting in april, win the game, if your pitcher is hitting in september win the game.

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Jan 23, 2012 12:45 PM CST up reply actions  

your*

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Jan 23, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Sure.

But again, why should you have two “leagues” which aren’t really separate leagues any more, have different rules?

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jan 23, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

they shouldn't...

thats why i said earlier, I’m anti-DH, but i’m more ANTI hitters not really hitting and flailing up at the plate…..

But for now and your point about the pennant race arent really unfair to me because every team places 162, sometimes you draw a crappy straw in any given year.

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Jan 23, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

they are obviously separate leagues

in that one has the DH and one doesn’t.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 23, 2012 4:14 PM CST up reply actions  

No, they are not separate leagues.

They are NFL-style conferences that have different rules.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jan 23, 2012 4:20 PM CST up reply actions  

do you not see the holes in your logic?

what if the Yankees, Red Sox and Rays are less than a game apart going into the last weekend of the season? And for that last weekend series, the Rays are playing the Red Sox while the Yankees are playing the “last place 20 games out” Orioles. How is that fair?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 23, 2012 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

But at least all those teams are playing...

… under rules (the DH rule) by which they have established their roster and played the bulk of their season, which they would NOT be doing under my scenario.

Either get rid of it or have it in both leagues, but MLB can’t indefinitely have this “experiment” for just half its teams.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jan 23, 2012 3:22 PM CST up reply actions  

sorry epsilon, I tried.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 23, 2012 3:33 PM CST up reply actions  

E for effort(and epsilon) my homerun ball catching friend.

we see the logic and that is all that matters.

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Jan 23, 2012 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

why not?

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 23, 2012 4:15 PM CST up reply actions  

fair schmair

play the schedule you’re given, and suck it up. A win is a win is a win.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 23, 2012 4:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I am not a fan

of having separate decisions regarding pitching and hitting. I think the DH makes the game boring, and prevents some of the better drama we’ve enjoyed in the game lately. For example, imagine game six last year if it was in Texas; totally different game if pitching didn’t have to be sacrificed for pinch hitting.

Either way, same rules should apply. And before you vote, consider how many DH’s are really exciting anymore. I can think of… well…

Ezekiel 25:17

by Tat14 on Jan 23, 2012 11:20 AM CST reply actions  

$ counts and protecting pitchers, getting more offense and marque players

NL finally fades into the future unfortunately.

A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight

by Ivy Walls on Jan 23, 2012 11:45 AM CST reply actions  

Don't Like DH, But...

it is inevitably coming to the NL. I believe it will be in the NL no later than 2016. It may come before then.

Good things come to those who wait... and wait....and wait.

by memphiscub on Jan 23, 2012 11:46 AM CST reply actions  

Impressive.

Managed to weave one of Bud’s failures, totally unrelated to this issue, into a comment on the DH. Well done.

Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation

by Al Yellon on Jan 23, 2012 12:02 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm a ninja, I'm a hoodie ninja.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 23, 2012 12:08 PM CST up reply actions  

it is time for the DH in NL

… as long as pitchers are making $15million+ why risk them to an injury when they suck at hitting. Plus, if a team has a player with an injury that doesnt let him play his position but he can still hit, it makes sense for a team to get production out of him since theyu have to pay his salary anyway.

The purists will get over it, just like they got over expanded playoffs, AL DH, interleague, etc.

by chit0wn on Jan 23, 2012 12:25 PM CST reply actions  

See Prior, Mark to further this argument.

"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.

by WindisBlowingOut! on Jan 23, 2012 1:10 PM CST up reply actions  

because they're supposed to

play baseball.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 23, 2012 4:15 PM CST up reply actions  

yawn

… So the new York yankees, Boston red sox, etc haven’t been playing baseball since 1973? Gimme a break

by chit0wn on Jan 23, 2012 6:09 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I think NL teams are at a disadvantage by not having the DH

Thinking about this off-season and the opportunity to sign Pujols or Fielder, having the DH is a significant advantage. With Pujols’ age and Fielder’s physique, the option to place either player into the DH reduces the risk of the contract. In the short term, the player can be somwhat rested, yet still contribute as a DH. In the long-term, the player’s hitting longevity is increased.

I think this AL advantage will be repeated in future free agent markets.

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum

by RiskyBusiness on Jan 23, 2012 12:37 PM CST reply actions  

Pujols and his physique should be of a concern too

He may not be hurt but its painful to watch him run with that huge body of his. He will get bigger too imo.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Jan 23, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

This is the number one reason to add the DH to the NL.

It’s become such an offseason advantage for the AL. I doubt Bud even realizes it.

by mic on Jan 23, 2012 2:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Damn, just get rid of the DH

I find it quite amusing to watch pitchers bat, and when they do something other than K, it’s awesome to see. Hell, even Mo has 1 RBI.

~Ronald Reagan has held the two most demeaning jobs in the country; President of the United States and radio broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs~ George F. Will

by unretrofied93 on Jan 23, 2012 1:20 PM CST reply actions  

So if the AL got rid of the DH...

…how would that work? Some teams would get screwed. Let’s just say the MLB announced next year the AL was getting rid of the DH (I know this isn’t happening, but for the sake of argument). What would a team like the White Sox do with a guy like Adam Dunn?

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jan 23, 2012 2:23 PM CST reply actions  

play him

or dump him.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 23, 2012 4:16 PM CST up reply actions  

The price of consistency is a 10-player batting order.

AL – keep the DH and have the pitcher hit too.
NL – keep pitcher’s spot in batting order and add DH.

In effect, the DH becomes an EH (extra hitter). I consider myself a purist, but I think I could live with this. Better than forcing the DH rule, as currently implemented, on the NL.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 23, 2012 2:44 PM CST reply actions  

Meh, going that route would really suck.

Wouldn’t it lead to over the course of a game most people losing almost 1 entire AB? If you had a perfect game, batters 8-9-10 would only have 2AB. Everyone else would have 3. If they want to do that, just go with an 8 man batting lineup. No pitcher or DH. Still wouldn’t break into 3’s as nicely.

by ubercubsfan on Jan 23, 2012 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

point taken - losing an AB would probably elicit a howl of protest from the stats-padders (or their agents)

but I guess that’d be part of the price of consistency.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 23, 2012 3:01 PM CST up reply actions  

i say make it like little league

everyone on the roster hits!!

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Jan 23, 2012 3:02 PM CST up reply actions  

I've seen that in some little leagues - probably pre-little leagues - but they take it step further

Not only does everyone hit, but everyone gets a “hit”, no matter what the actual outcome of the play. The limiting factor though is everyone can only move up one base at a time.

Man, can you imagine Dusty Baker watching a game in that league? His head would ’splode!

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 23, 2012 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

our's is pretty awesome. 4-5-6 year olds...

coach pitch, no T. three strikes you’re out, 7 runs max per inning. normal parents very few crazies.

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Jan 23, 2012 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

yuck

I’ve never seen that.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 23, 2012 4:17 PM CST up reply actions  

The rules have their advantages and disadvantages

I’m down either way

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." Carl Sagan

by Cubbiegoon on Jan 23, 2012 2:49 PM CST reply actions  

Bring on the DH.

Cubs have the money for a DH. Most of the division does not.

DUMP GARZA. CORRECT THE COSMIC WRONG.

by shoemile on Jan 23, 2012 3:07 PM CST reply actions  

I hate the DH

and always will. I say nay for the NL to adopt it. It never bothered me that the leagues have different rules. I hate watching AL games mostly because of the DH. The late inning strategies go out the window with the DH, Having to decide whether to keep a pitcher in the game in the late innings or not brings excitement. I realize that pitchers are mostly automatic outs, but don’t you love it when a pitcher draws a walk to lead off the 9th inning with your team down a run? Changes the entire inning, potentially. Or when a pitcher gets a hit to keep the inning alive? It’s BASEBALL, the DH is NOT BASEBALL. At least to me.

"IN THEO WE TRUST"

by BigJohnAZ on Jan 23, 2012 4:00 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

I get what you're saying, but...

…being down a run in the 9th inning…not too many teams are gonna lead off with their pitcher.

by Easy Ed on Jan 23, 2012 4:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Baseball is a game

with nine players.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 23, 2012 4:11 PM CST reply actions  

You're so black and white.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 23, 2012 4:12 PM CST up reply actions  

I know.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 23, 2012 4:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I laughed.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 23, 2012 4:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Did anyone ever experiment

with an eight-man lineup? Let’s say only 8 innings as well. Pitcher never hits. What sort of a game would that be?

by slyfox1908 on Jan 23, 2012 5:35 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm for this Al

I am personally sick of seeing the Cubs have 2 me on w/ 2 outs and the damn pitcher coming up in the 4th inning b/c you know he isn’t coming out and you know we aren’t going to add any runs. Bring on a DH, it’ll help the Cubs w/ Soriano (at this moment) and it the PA shou

by lowkeyman on Jan 23, 2012 5:56 PM CST reply actions  

Damn

The PA should love this b/c it adds another high price player to the payroll

by lowkeyman on Jan 23, 2012 5:56 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd rather live in a world with two sets of rules,

than a world where the one DH rules them all.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jan 23, 2012 5:56 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Yep, can't stand the idea of the dh in the nl.

Let the senior circuit remain the senior circuit.

Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory­, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicate­d. - George Costanza

by troutfishin on Jan 23, 2012 7:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I completely agree

I dont watch AL games at all, even the postseason. There’s practically no strategy- the same 9 guys hit all nine innings. I love pinch hitters. I love moving the man over with the bunt and small ball. I just love NL style baseball. I would still love the Cubs if they used the DH, but I worry that my love for baseball would fade.

by Bender13 on Jan 24, 2012 7:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Preferably no DH,

but regardless, they need to make it the same for both leagues

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jan 26, 2012 7:36 AM CST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Bleed Cubbie Blue, the Chicago Cubs blog for the SB Nation, created on February 9, 2005 by Al Yellon

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Maybe it's time to take a deep breath

Recent FanPosts

Small
Top 10 things I liked about watching the Cubs lose at PNC Park
Seinfeld_jerk_store_black_shirt_small
Cubs pitching problems answered!
Zambrano_background_2_small
What is the most likely move in June regarding current players?
Small
Draft Prep: Pierce Johnson
Small
Trying to be positive (need some help)
Small
Soriano back to Second?
Small
Javier Baez Peoria Bound?
Small
Draft Prep: Conference Tournament Version
Despite-an-inflated-babip-lahair-is-no-one-month-wonder
Suddenly, I feel your pain

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Former MLB PItcher Bob Ojeda On Pitching And Pain
Wrigley Field Supporters Propose Tearing Down Rest Of Chicago
Doug Glanville On His Teammate, Kerry Wood
Thanks.
Samardzija takes a dig at Hawk Harrelson

Recent FanShots

A Day In The Life Of An A-Ball Minor Leaguer
Baez to Peoria
2012 Stars and Stripes Hat
Sveum moves Castro back to #2 spot
OT: Tyler Colvin bats 2nd
The Pittsburgh Pirates Offensive Catastrophe
Roy Halladay Bobblehead Fail
Full sized image

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

Featured Poll

Poll
Should the National League adopt the designated hitter rule?

  1008 votes | Results

Cubs By The Numbers

Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.

Click here to order your copy, available now!

Recent Stories in Chicago Cubs Game Threads

Yahoo_full_count

Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges


Managing Editor

Alyellontoppscard_small Al Yellon

Front Page Contributors

Profile_small Josh Timmers

B_w_avatar_small Brett Taylor

Marvin_the_martian_small Shawn Domagal-Goldman

Other Contributors

Toonmike_small Mike Bojanowski

Dsc_0139_small David Sameshima