Yankees looking to trade Burnett for DH hitter
Sounds as if there might be room for a deal that would return Soriano to his roots. I'm not even sure how the money works here, but it would bring us pitching. Do we want A.J.?
4 months ago
seeinginshades
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frame it completely
Yankees general manager Brian Cashman acknowledged his opening at designated hitter but said the free agent market is a "secondary" focus in trying to fill that vacancy. He will "first and foremost" look at the trade market to find a hitter."Maybe I use our excess pitching to find a bat," Cashman said. "That’s a possibility."
Without using Hiroki Kuroda’s name, Cashman said there’s another pitching addition that’s almost finalized, and the Yankees "stretched the payroll to get that done.
A.J. Burnett rhp
5 years/$82.5M (2009-13)
5 years/$82.5M (2009-13)
signed by NY Yankees as a free agent 12/12/08
09-13:$16.5M annually
limited no-trade clause (Burnett may block deals to 10 clubs each year)
Cots-CUBS
Alfonso Soriano lf
8 years/$136M (2007-14)
8 years/$136M (2007-14)
signed by Cubs as a free agent 11/06
$8M signing bonus
07:$9M, 08:$13M, 09:$16M, 10-14:$18M annually
full no-trade clause
Cubs send $2m ’12 & ’13 ? ’14
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
Since AJ only has two years left
You’d assume the Cubs would be on the hook for a sizable chunk of Sori’s salary in ‘14. How much could be a negotiating point, but you’d think a minimum of $12M and probably closer to $15M.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
agree $14-16m
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
The Yankees won't be adding any payroll
to add Soriano.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
I'd rather have Soriano in all honesty, unless we're saving a decent chunk of money.
AJ flat out sucks.
not as bad pretty even
AJ Burnett
xFIP 3.86 WAR 1.5
Soriano
wOBA .325 wRC+ 99 WAR 1.3
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
so make a SWING
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
long reliever/spot starter
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
if he re-assiged to the pen
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
It's also a lot of money
for a one-dimensional fossil to stand in LF. Such is life.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
Soriano is worse
He plays poorly almost every day, instead of every fifth day. We’re ready to eat like $40 million – why not do this instead? It’s all about 2014 anyway – best to get free of Soriano.
-- Jerome Horwitz
by KO Stradivarius on Jan 23, 2012 6:40 PM CST up reply actions
Burnett may be as low as our seventh starter.
I don’t like Soriano, but he’s one of the few power threats on our team. I’d be for getting rid of him, but only if we got some decent salary relief or a prospect. Not to mention he’s a good clubhouse presence, and Burnett is a bit of an ass. I just don’t think this trade really puts us in any better position. At all.
Salary relief
Trade Garza, and he becomes anything from 4th to 6th, and don’t forget that he gives you the innings over the next couple of years that we can use to leave our new prospects (the ones we get for Garza) where they belong – developing on the farm.
This is $54 million over 3 years that we’re talking about, for an “outfielder” who is in many ways a detriment to this team. It’s very difficult to measure his defensive indifference and his terrible baserunning. His OBP speaks for itself, as do the rally-killing strikeouts with a bat that looks about as heavy as a Scottish caber in his hands.
It’s all about 2014 and beyond. This trade would get us closer to freedom from Hendry and Tribco. Who else would take Soriano? We have to find a crap for crap deal to an American League team, because nobody wants him. In this case, we receive a 2-year albatross for a 3-year one.
-- Jerome Horwitz
by KO Stradivarius on Jan 23, 2012 7:23 PM CST up reply actions
Why would the Yankess want to pick up that 2014 salary?
You keep saying 2014 is what it’s all about. Hate to break it to you, but we’d be paying just about all of that salary, so I doubt we’d be getting much salary relief. And if Soriano is that bad, why would they want him at all? What would he bring that Andruw Jones doesn’t? Not to mention taking on more salary and years. The Yankess aren’t stupid, we’re not magically getting out of Soriano’s 2014 salary.
And we should only trade Garza if a deal includes a near ready SP like Turner, in which case he could be taking up another rotation spot for hopefully at least a half the season, not developing on the farm for two years.
by Dcr18 on Jan 23, 2012 7:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Because the Cubs don't want him.
It is another silly trade idea that benefits the Cubs. No way are the Yankess adding $10 million in payroll to split the difference on Soriano.
And as you say, the Yankees have signed Andruw Jones. If anything they want a lefty which is why they asked about Pena except his asking price was too high.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
Bonus points
for use of the word caber. I don’t think I’ve seen that word since playing a computer game in the mid to late 80s. Kudos.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
As Dcr said...
we’ll be on the hook for all of or nearly all of Soriano’s salary in 2014. I think people need to accept this. It’s a sunk cost. A trade doesn’t move us closer to anything. It’s not like we have a LFer being blocked right now.
I think the most likely scenario is Soriano playing 2 more seasons for the Cubs, with an outright release for 2014. Depending on how the next year plays out, it could happen a year earlier.
D98 mistaken, a hyperbole as in a funny or revisionism as in trying to make a new fact to confirm a prejudice
As we're tossing around in the latest Cespedes fanshot
IMO, Soriano is gone after this year in almost any case, but particularly if we sign Cespedes. The Cubs will want he and Jackson to have spots to start in 2013 and that means Soriano or DJJ has to go. And in that case, even with DJJ being more moveable, I’d think Sori is gone to complete the “culture change”.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
This is a perfect opportunity
I got lukewarm response on this idea last week, which was easy to recognize once the Yankees signed Kuroda and obtained Pineda. They have all the pitching they need.
New York hates AJ Burnett right now. He’s due $33 million, if I am not mistaken.
The Cubs do not need or want Alfonso Soriano right now. He epitomizes the worst of Cubs baseball, and he’s the number one influence on our young, impressionable shortstop, who exhibited some laziness last year.
I say you make an even swap and pay the difference. Give the Yankees $21 million. They’ll have to watch Soriano swing an inferior bat for 3 years. We’ll only have AJ for two. At worst, he takes the 5th spot in the rotation, or heck, convert him to a closer and move Marmol. AJ might even improve a little once he puts New York behind him. But Soriano? He’s a bad baseball player with terrible instincts. We need him to go. He’s the biggest stumbling block to converting this team to a different kind of baseball starting next year.
-- Jerome Horwitz
by KO Stradivarius on Jan 23, 2012 6:36 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
I agree
I’m not sure that Soriano helps us in any way right now. However, Burnett could turn it around simply by getting out of New York. There was discussion near the blog post I linked expressing that giving up on Burnett could be bad for NY because his innings are valuable, and he has had some very good playoff games. Could be a good change of scenery trade all around.
I also think you could even out the salaries for ‘12 and ’13 and look to offer cash to cover the difference in contract vs. true statistical value. Then again, I’d rather just fork over the even 21 million just to open the outfield spot.
by seeinginshades on Jan 23, 2012 6:42 PM CST up reply actions
I would love Cespedes.
Plus I bet Burnett would probably fair much better in the NL.
Open the outfield spot for who?
D98 mistaken, a hyperbole as in a funny or revisionism as in trying to make a new fact to confirm a prejudice
Castro's laziness was Soriano's fault?
My goodness.
D98 mistaken, a hyperbole as in a funny or revisionism as in trying to make a new fact to confirm a prejudice
by Kansas25 on Jan 23, 2012 9:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's a stretch
When you’re rebuilding and bringing up youth, do you want Castro, Jackson and Rizzo to learn how to approach Major League baseball from Soriano, Aramis and Big Z?
We got one more to jettison.
-- Jerome Horwitz
by KO Stradivarius on Jan 24, 2012 8:34 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Only problem...
with your logic is that Soriano has always been reported as a hard-worker and great teammate.
D98 mistaken, a hyperbole as in a funny or revisionism as in trying to make a new fact to confirm a prejudice
by Kansas25 on Jan 24, 2012 9:06 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Furthermore...
while Soriano has been described as a good clubhouse guy, the guy you want to acquire has been described as a complete asshole. And you want to bring him in to get rid of Soriano’s bad influence?
D98 mistaken, a hyperbole as in a funny or revisionism as in trying to make a new fact to confirm a prejudice
by Kansas25 on Jan 24, 2012 9:10 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Both those characteristics are true
and a young player would pick up good habits in that regard.
But Soriano plays the game the “wrong way”. He lopes after balls in the OF, doesn’t concentrate defensively, rarely hustles out of the box, and has a selfish, one-dimensional approach at the plate.
So I agree with you that swapping Soriano for Burnett is a downgrade for the clubhouse… I don’t want any of our young guys trying to play the game the “Soriano way”.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
by fsuapollo on Jan 24, 2012 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yanks are looking to save some dollars
Theyd rather pay most of Burnetts salary than take on a big contract in return. At least that’s how I interpret the reports.
Maybe it's just been too long a day...
But I don’t see it. What exactly would the Cubs motivation be? And as an aside, would a Soriano-less Cubs team even clear 100 homers in 2012?
Homers aren't everything
And Soriano negates every home run with everything else he does.
-- Jerome Horwitz
by KO Stradivarius on Jan 23, 2012 7:29 PM CST up reply actions
And all that would be well and good
if trading him involved 1) saving money, or 2) gaining even a average prospect or two in return. I really don’t see how a deal for Burnett would do the Cubs any good, and honestly, just thinking about it a bit off the top of my head, probably makes them worse, given the dramatic drop in punch.
But again, it’s been a long day. Maybe someone has a plausible take on this idea.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 23, 2012 7:38 PM CST up reply actions
I think you hit the nail on the head.
The only way this makes sense is if we’re saving a decent chunk of money. And in that case, I’d just ask them to throw in a low level prospect instead of Burnett. And I really don’t think the Yankess our interested in adding much more salary for 2012.
I primarily agree.
But I guess you could build an argument around opening up an OF spot (Jackson? Cespedes?) while not really caring what the results are this season (which certainly seems to be the case).
You could also probably argue that “flipping” Burnett would be easier than moving Soriano (first team willing to pay $2M of the freight wins).
But, no, this sure isn’t a very compelling deal. It would really be mostly about sweeping out the last major piece of the “old regime”.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
No one is trading for Soriano
If it could have been done, it would have been done already while Soriano can at least promise to be mildly productive.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
If you disagree with me in any way, you are wrong.
Forget it
The Yankees want to reduce payroll. They are not splitting the difference with the Cubs and adding $10+ million to their payroll.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
Forget it
The Angels are not trading Mike Napoli and taking on Vernon Wells salary.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Jan 23, 2012 8:22 PM CST reply actions
And Tony Reagins eventually got fired for that
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie
And where is that GM now?
Brian Cashman is not adding $10 million plus to their payroll for another RH outfielder after they already signed Andruw Jones for $2 million. Unless the Cubs are sending $20 million plus with Soriano, it has zero chance of happening that the Yankees will split the difference.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
I think the number is 16-18
but we have to move Garza simultaneously and Cespedes has to be declared a FA 1st.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Jan 23, 2012 11:43 PM CST up reply actions
I'm guessing
rlpete meant $20M over the life of the contract. Obviously we wouldn’t pay the Yanks more than Soriano’s salary just to take him… you would just release him.
If the Cubs were paying Burnett, then there’s basically a $22M difference between the two contracts (the big chunk being the $18M for the last year of Soriano’s deal). If the Cubs are only saving $2M over three seasons, there’s no point to taking on Burnett unless you think you can “fix” him.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
tony reagins is jim hendry bad
and i believe they also play golf with each other now and talk about how much smarter their replacements are
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 23, 2012 8:41 PM CST up reply actions
That is a worse idea.
You are watering down Garza’s value with the albatross. The Yankees wouldn’t pick up that salary anyway.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
You're asking the wrong question
Do we want A.J.?
You should be asking – Do the Yankees want Soriano?
And I’m pretty sure the resounding answer is “No”.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Depends how much they hate A.J.
Right now A.J. is a looking like a Pen guy. 400-500 Ab of Soriano is better than 60 innings of A.J.
I think he got the question right.
I'd think 400-500 ABs has more of an impact than 60 innings
so if there’s a good chance that both are going to have less than desirable performances this year (and I’m being kind), then it would seem to me that you’d want to minimize the suckiness (now I’m not being so kind).
Ergo, AJ is the lessor of two not-so-good players. (back to being kind).
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Except which one is cheaper
Some people say the Yankees and Cubs should split the difference. The question then still stands, why would the Yankees want to add to their payroll for Soriano?
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
The difference in '12 & '13 is basically $2M a year.
So the Yankees might be willing to “split” that if they believe Soriano can bring them $1M more in value than Burnett, which is a rather reasonable bet (and obviously the Cubs are paying most, probably $15-16M, of the freight in ’14).
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
We're stuck with Soriano.
I don’t think Epstein wants to trade a problem for another problem unless he has to (like in the case of Z). So long as Alfonso doesn’t become a clubhouse issue, he’ll be in Chicago.
DUMP GARZA. CORRECT THE COSMIC WRONG.
I agree with this.
Both are bad contracts. In the past, I’ve thought the Yankees might take on Soriano. But at the price of Burnett returning, I’d say no. I’d be more willing to eat 80% of the deal and send Soriano there for a face-saving prospect.
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The other issue ...
is that we have a relatively full rotation. Getting Volstad made sense because he could take Z’s spot in the rotation (among other reasons). And that deal occurred before Maholm signed.
You figure Burnett wouldn’t be in the bullpen. So to be worth anything at all to the Cubs — or to be more valuable than Soriano even — he would have to go around two other starters who very likely could be better and could become increasingly valuable. Burnett wouldn’t supplant Garza, Dempster or Maholm, so two of Wells, Wood and Volstad would have to become relievers or go to the minors.
Maybe the Cubs figure Wells has peaked, but I’ve got to believe that they want to see what Wood and Volstad can do.
And, as I’ve mentioned before, Soriano does have some value in 2012 to a Cubs team with a real lack of right-handed power, particularly if Marlon Byrd is traded (which I expect).
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
ALL BALL CLUBS MUST HAVE THE WELL BEING OF THE CHICAGO CUBS AS THEIR CORE BELIEF!!!!
So i you can give you can take it.
I read a tweet
That said Cashman told reporters that he was thinking of the deal partly b/c he wanted to help the GM who was his biggest rival for almost a decade.
/sarcasm/
That follows epsilon line of thinking :)
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 24, 2012 8:53 AM CST up reply actions
I think I'd rather
just eat more of the money and not have to look at another player we don’t want who is making lots of money.
All right, all right
Very “wise” comments all, but please look at history, and look at the bigger picture.
Two teams need to get rid of an albatross. Define albatross: expensive guy that performs below expectations. There are two ways to get rid of an albatross. Cut him and lose all that money, or deal him for another albatross.
If you are Cashman, you want AJ gone. He may be looking at Vernon Wells or others. Soriano may not be his top choice, but it may be the best deal he can find. Besides, take Soriano out of the field and his value actually goes up.
Lots of teams swap bad for bad. It may not work out, but it’s already an unworkable situation. Throw in the right amount of money and get it done.
-- Jerome Horwitz
by KO Stradivarius on Jan 24, 2012 8:50 AM CST via mobile reply actions
name one that worked out for both teams?
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 24, 2012 8:54 AM CST up reply actions
It's never worked out...
and the thing that KO is ignoring is that we will be paying for Soriano in 2014 no matter what.
D98 mistaken, a hyperbole as in a funny or revisionism as in trying to make a new fact to confirm a prejudice
Ok, the only way this makes sense is if it saves us money.
Meaning the Yankees would have to take in more money. Why would they want to take more money and more years when they already have Jones? Were still gonna be on the hook for 2014 money to Soriano. And this trade wouldn’t help us anyway, and would also make the clubhouse worse. Just let it go man. Not only is it a bad idea, it’s also unrealistic.
A 35 year old starter...
who hasn’t been able to keep his ERA under 5 the last two years? No thanks.
How does this trade make sense?
As much as I’d like Soriano to play elsewhere he does have some value. He’s going to hit 25-30 HR’s and drive in 80+. He’s a Cub for AT LEAST 2012 and probably 2013. It’s not like he’s blocking a good prospect………even if Cespedes comes here (I think it’ll be Soler) chances are he’ll need AAA time. AJ Burnett has been awful for 2 years,and would block a Wood or Volstad type from pitching. Only way it would make sense is if we had a LF ready to replace him and if the thinking was that Burnett could come in as a 5th starter and could hopefully put them over the top with a "lightning in a bottle " year. That’s just not the case here
Let's be clear.
Soriano has only hit 30 home runs once as a Cub. 20-25 is more likely.
And why 2013?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
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