New Manager Expectations
by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 27, 2012 1:53 PM CST
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PrintIn an industry full of recycling when it comes to managers being hired time and time again (Bobby Valentine for example), it is nice to see a few new faces this season.
The newest managers to look at are
1. Dale Sveum – Chicago Cubs
2. Robin Ventura – Chicago White Sox
3. Mike Matheny – St Louis Cardinals
* Matheny might have the highest expectations (wins/loses) of the three due to the team not being in rebuild (or build) mode. Matheny has a lot of respect in the Cardinals organization, and might have the best “win now” roster of the three, but with that comes more pressure to win. This is also a team with a few aging players such as (the newly acquired) Beltran, to go along with Berkman who had one hell of a turnaround season in 2011.
* Ventura seems to have his work cut out with having to try and figure out how to get production out of Peavy, Rios and Dunn, each of whom are coming off some down seasons. No doubt he will be vastly different from Guillen, but can be manage is the question, as he has not been challenged to do so to date.
*Sveum likely has the lowest expectation of the three this season, as the Cubs are in build mode no doubt, but that doesn’t mean that he is not expected to try and out manage the opposing team and produce no matter the talent on the field. Sveum has the most managerial experience of the three, but that experience was a few years back as interim manager od Milwaukee.
Which manager do you believe will have the easiest/hardest learning curve?
Which manager do you believe will be a long term skipper?
Do you feel any of the three are getting a “cup of tea” so to speak and will not be around long in this role?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Matheny just lost his best player.
The NL Central is basically a cesspool of suck right now.
So the NL Central is weak and the Cubs have a shot at contending?
That was last year’s argument man…
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 27, 2012 3:21 PM CST up reply actions
Nope...sadly, no shot...
…first time since 2000 I haven’t made my annual bet on them to win it all…and I’ve bet on a couple pretty crappy teams during that stretch. So, that should tell ya how confident I am in them. Gonna be a rough 6 months coming up.
Man are you going to be mad when they run away with the division...
and than win the World Series….
I’m sure you’ll gladly accept that though as a Cubs fan.
I also wouldn’t bet on this years Cubs for full disclosure…
I hated to bat against Drysdale. After he hit you he'd come around, look at the bruise on your arm and say, 'Do you want me to sign it?'- Mickey Mantle
by Sioux City Cubs Fan on Jan 28, 2012 9:21 PM CST up reply actions
Disagree 100%
The Cards are still a very good team and if Wainwright comes back and does anything, they could run away with this division.
The Brewers are going to be a good team and a potential division winner if Braun isn’t suspended. A 1-2-3 of Gallardo, Grienke and Marcum is pretty damn good.
The Reds a well above average team and if the starters reach the potential that they’ve shown, this team will be amongst the best in the league… though I have faith that Dusty will screw this up.
i agree about the Cards
they are not a bad team, they lost Albert, but they are not without talent, i dont see anyone taking the NL Central from them
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
They lost more than Pujols...
They also lost Duncan. I don’t think his value can be overstated.
While they are getting Wainwright back I don’t think Berkman can possibly repeat the year he had last year.
I think Milwaukee is the NL Central team to beat this year.
就是今年！
by CubFanInChina on Jan 28, 2012 9:00 AM CST up reply actions
Really?
The Brewers, without Fielder and potentially without Braun?
The Reds are going all-in this year.
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I agree Al
I think it will be
1. Cincy
2. Cardinals (too much change)
3. Crew
4-5 This will be the closest battle between us and the Bucs
6. Somewhere far far away the Astros
I agree also
The Reds really, really, REALLY loaded up this year, almost to the detriment of the future of that club. It’s another one of those “well, if they win it all, I guess it was worth it” type of things, but if they can’t go deep in the playoffs, or miss altogether, it could be rough for them going forward, and you would think Dusty would be fired.
I still think they’ll take the Central though. They’re so stocked up on talent at this point.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 28, 2012 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
loading up with a guy like Latos
Is not betting it all on this year. He’ll be good and cheap for several years.
by Orval Overall on Jan 31, 2012 10:14 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
the Marshall trade
could bite them in the behind, though, if they miss this season.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
And losing Alonso could hurt them as well if Votto leaves after 2013.
I think Latos is very good, but I’m hesitant to say he’ll be an ace in that ball park.
My guess is that they'll sign Votto to an extension.
I doubt they’d have traded Alonso if they thought Votto was going to leave.
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I don't think the Reds can afford Votto any more than the Cards could afford Pujols.
I think it’s a 90% chance he’s gone.
Well they want to compete now.
And one of the two had to be traded, so it wasn’t going to be the established superstar.
I think the team with the best pitching is going to take it.
Milwaukees hitting lines up against Cincy pretty well. Milwaukee has the best staff in the division though
就是今年！
by CubFanInChina on Jan 28, 2012 5:24 PM CST up reply actions
I will stick with the Cards for the 2012 NL Team to beat
POS – Cards vs Reds
1B – Berkman vs Votto
2B – Schumaker vs Phillips
3B – Freese vs Rolen
SS – Furcal vs Cozart
LF – Holiday vs Heisey
CF – Jay vs Stubbs
RF – Beltran vs Bruce
C – Molina vs Hanigan
SP – Wainwright vs Cuerto
SP – Carpenter vs Latos
SP – Loshe vs Arroyo
SP – Garcia vs Bailey
SP – Westbrook (poss Oswalt?) vs Leake
as of today, Cards look like a better line up IMHO
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
If Braun doesn't get suspended for 50 games...
…I think the Brewers are still the team in the NL Central. Cory Hart is the most under-rated hitter in baseball, imo. AND, I think A-Ram will rake hitting in that park for 81 games.
Even if Braun does get suspended, if they can play close to .500 ball in that span, they’ll still be in it.
i think the Cards rotation separates them from the Brewers
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
I don't see it that way.
Duncan is gone. Wainwright is returning from a significant injury. Carpenter has been good but he is always an injury risk. The rest of their rotation is not any better than ours (none of them have a ceiling beyond a number 3).
Gallardo and Greinke both have ace potential. Marcum is a solid number two. Wolf is a solid number three.
就是今年！
by CubFanInChina on Jan 28, 2012 5:34 PM CST up reply actions
The Cardinals line up has a lot of fragile guys
Between Furcal, Beltran, Berkman, and Holiday that group could miss a lot of games.
I have never been fond of position-by-position comparisons
… to me, they really don’t show the strength or weakness of the entire team.
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if you notice
i was not doing that. i did not try to say one player at any position was better than the other, but to discuss which teams starting line up as a whole looks better to me, doesnt the line up of both teams need to be shown and taken into consideration?
Condoms prevent minivans
Actually, that's exactly what you did.
You did a position by position comparison. IN MY OPINION, that’s not a valid way to compare the overall strength of a team.
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i was only listing who played at each
i was not saying at each position who was or wasnt better. i did say over all line up and rotation, not once did i say at each position who i felt was better
Condoms prevent minivans
I'd be surprised if any of the 3 are managing after 3 years
Ventura failing will cost K. Williams his job and the new GM will want his own guy.
Matheny has some monstrous shoes to fill and I don’t think he can do it.
Sveum has 3 years to make this team contenders with what Hoyer/Epstein give him…and a over a century of failure to deal with. He has the most to gain. He could be a God in Chicago. Many have tried since 1908…ALL have failed. I hope he gets “it”.
Sveum will stick if he has any success at all,
otherwise he is a stopgap until we are ready to compete yearly and Ryno becomes our manager.
I think the "Sandberg Ship" has sailed...
…he may get Charlie M.‘s job in Phillie in a year or two. May be a minor league manager for quite awhile…if he sticks it out. No one’s interested.
Clearly as you say, "No one's interested" in Sandberg
I suspect that Sandberg has some ‘fatal flaw’ that we, not in baseball’s inner circle, are not privy to.
I enjoy this website because it's so interesting to see folks pole vaulting over mouse turds.
Yes. Theo and Jed had their chance to hire Sandberg this year and didn't even interview him.
I have many relatives who are Phillies fans and they don’t know anyone who is saying Sandberg is the successor for the ML job. The only people excited by Ryno are Cubs fans of a certain age.
by the nth on Jan 28, 2012 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
They thought they could pull me back in with the Wood signing.
But the grave injustice done to Ryno will forever keep me away.
DUMP GARZA. CORRECT THE COSMIC WRONG.
screw you, jedstein!
screw. you.
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 28, 2012 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
plus they didnt even dump Garza
those turd heads
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Hence why I am now a Marlins fan.
DUMP GARZA. CORRECT THE COSMIC WRONG.
by shoemile on Jan 28, 2012 4:56 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
is there room on the marlins band house boat?
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
the boat is in the shape of a marlin
it’s pretty badass
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 28, 2012 5:17 PM CST up reply actions
you'll think you're on acid
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 28, 2012 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
can we dub our fan clud
the logion of ’shrooms
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
I am not a Marlins fan
But I do like the Mermaids.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 28, 2012 7:37 PM CST up reply actions
You lost me at
and a over a century of failure to deal with.
That’s all the stupid crap that media pundits spit out because they don’t have anything intelligent to say.
FYI – Sveum was the third base coach of the 2004 Red Sox World Series team. He is beyond “getting it”. He’s already “got it”.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 28, 2012 2:29 PM CST up reply actions
When we saw Dale speak @ Cubs convention
I felt like the Cubs had a manager that fit with what Theo/Jed are trying to do.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 28, 2012 7:30 PM CST up reply actions
Ya think?
He’s already "got it".
That’s what Piniella and Baker thought when they each signed on. I think they were quoted as saying, when it was over, that they were “over-whelmed” (or something to that nature). This ain’t your everyday, run of the mill managing job. And that “stupid crap that media pundits spit out”, intelligent or not, will be there everyday, and won’t go away, until the Cubs finally do win a championship. I, like most, am pulling for Sveum, but, he’s never felt anything at all, in his professional career, like the pressure he’s gonna feel now…that includes Milwaukee OR Boston. I hope he’s up to it.
Don't try that old trick
Dredging up Piniella and Baker. Their experiences were completely different – neither of them knew what they were walking into. If they were overwhelmed at the end, it is because they were unprepared at the beginning.
No, your reference was to the Cubs WS championship drought and the fact is that Sveum was a part of ending Boston’s WS championship drought with a prominent everyday coaching role. While the Cubs WS championship drought has been longer, the Red Sox WS championship drought was more intense.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 28, 2012 11:27 PM CST up reply actions
And the Red Sox WS drought was more intense than the Cubs' is now...
…is how? Not being snarky…I’d like to know why you’d think that.
Babe Ruth is greater than a silly goat
They sold Babe Ruth. And to the Yankees no less.
But recent examples bear greater weight:
1975 World Series: Lost to Reds 4-3 after Game 6 was delayed 3 days and then won by Boston in the 12th inning. The Reds won Game 7 in the top of the 9th after Boston initially led 3-0.
1986 World Series: Lost to Mets 4-3, after Boston led the series 3-2 and led in the 10th inning of Game 6.
Those two series have some of the greatest moments in World Series history. And both end in stunning Red Sox defeats.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 29, 2012 12:41 AM CST up reply actions
Ok...I got confused...
…we were talking championship droughts. I’ll agree on the “stunning losses” part. Boston was at least “there” tho, ya know? Twice.
If you were an adult Cubs’ fan at the last WS they were in, you’d be in your mid 80s now…at the very least. I think most Cubs fans would love to see a championship, but, would also be just as elated to see them in the WS at all…wouldn’t you agree? It’s been a very long time and it’s an issue any new Cubs’ manager is going to have to continue to deal with…until it’s NOT an issue anymore.
The Sawks didn't win
despite doing things the right way. The Cubs lost because they did things the wrong way. Different sort of pressure. Both are/were pressure.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
no, I wouldn't agree
Getting to the WS is not the goal – winning the WS is.
Sure, getting to the WS is better than getting to the LCS which is better than getting to the LDS which perhaps this year will be better than getting to the WCP, but that doesn’t preclude the feeling you get from winning it all.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
nope, not my point
you said
I think most Cubs fans would love to see a championship, but, would also be just as elated to see them in the WS at all…wouldn’t you agree?
Based on that, it sounds like you’re equating the two. What I’m trying to point out is they are not equal – the whole postseason playoff push is a series of steps, and while it’s certainly possible to be pleased with attaining any of those steps and the higher you go, the more pleased you ought to be, the ultimate goal is to win it all. Nothing equates to that.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
If they win it,
I intend to attempt to flip my own car by myself.
Come visit me inside Wrigley along the Addison side mezzanine fence straight up from 1st base.
by section229beer on Jan 31, 2012 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
The championship expectation is muted right now
Sveum is in the perfect position. The Cubs are coming off a 91 loss season. Sveum is coming in on the coat tails of Epstein and Hoyer. The expectation now is that the Cubs organization must be built up before the Cubs team can be in a position to win a championship.
Sveum will not need to deal withe championship issue until the Cubs organization can provide him with the players to compete.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 29, 2012 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
This place would melt down if the Cubs lost in the World Series.
DUMP GARZA. CORRECT THE COSMIC WRONG.
I don't think the shock of actually getting there...
…would subside before they lost. Losing a World Series would be the 2nd best thing that could ever happen to the Cubs.
It depends.
If they are following a proper path, and have shown NLC Supremacy, with system depth to make another run likely, I’d be happy. In that sense, losing in the NLCS would be fine.
Whereas, if we mortgage the future for one shot and miss the title, yeah, that would be bad.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
I want this
with system depth to make another run likely
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
That would be 2 major US cities
that Theo would nevere hafta buy a beer in again. Or a Starbucks?
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Eh, I dunno.
Perhaps for you (which is fine), but I’m not sure about the entire fanbase. It’d be cool to get that whole “1945” thing off our backs, but so long as “1908” remains, there’s still going to be angst. I mean, people were ecstatic to win the NLDS in 03, and then heartbroken to lose the NLCS. I think “I’m happy we’re here” would quickly turn to “AHHH WE WERE SO CLOSE!!!” if the Cubs were down 3-0 in the series.
DUMP GARZA. CORRECT THE COSMIC WRONG.
and with a loss in a game 7
Ed would have another player to bash ala Wood
Condoms prevent minivans
by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 29, 2012 8:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
maybe that player will also
drive in 2 of the 6 runs
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Svuem is also half their age
and wont wear down as quick with all the pressure and media hype
Condoms prevent minivans
By the time it's the AS break
I see pitchforks coming out. The Cubs are going to struggle and some are going to expect miracles.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 27, 2012 3:00 PM CST reply actions
My expectation is that the Earth wilill not crash into the Sun
Anything above that, I’ll take.
Over/under on amount of baseball Worf watches in 2012 – 8 games total (72 innings, or 216 outs)
"It's all in the game, yo"
That would be 432 outs...
Unless you just watch the Cubs bat and then turn the channel to one of the Law & Orders (which is usually on one channel or another all the time).
So...
…do players get cups of coffee but managers get cups of tea? Is that how it works?
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Managers don't usually get axed
after a three game series, like players do.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
But a cup of tea is usually no bigger than a cup of coffee.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
theo
played the experience card to knock sandberg out of the job ,then he hires a guy who’s managed a dozen games.
Theo hired the guy he wanted to hire. And Ryne wasn't the guy. End of story.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
It's a bit disingenuous, too.
Sveum might have managed only 12 games, but he had several years major league coaching experience, something Theo specifically laid out as one of the criteria.
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Yeah, I guess that playoff coaching doesn't count
3rd base coach for the Red Sox in 2004. Managed the Brewers in the playoffs in 2008. He has been a hitting coach and bench coach.
But why let real facts get in the way?
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 28, 2012 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
This is exactly the type of comments I expect to see by the AS break
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 28, 2012 8:18 AM CST up reply actions
Of course, there will be some comments like that.
But it won’t be a groundswell. TheoJed will get at least a year, and anyone watching the Cubs in 2012 will realize that the managerial hire won’t be the difference between competing and not competing.
TheoJed have carefully placed themselves in a position to do what no Cubs front office has been able to do for at least two decades: Totally rebuild.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
if sveum manages like quade i'll be the first to complain they didn't hire sanberg....
but if sveum manages a good game , win or lose , i won’t have a problem .having half a brain does wonders .
Agreed,
if they get beat by a better team so be it, if they LOSE like they did so many times last year that is unacceptable. As long as they are improving I am ok.
how much of the Sveum/Quade difference
will be players buying into the managers system and ideals, respecting the manager as a manager not just a baseball guy, and having Theo/Jed at the helm who wont have an issue with moving anyone who isnt willing to go all out in an attempt to win each game?.
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 28, 2012 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
This 2012 team is still going to lose a lot of games.
However, there should be no reason for pitchforks. I want to see steady progress as this organization is rehabbed, overhauled and re-tooled.
Hell, they could lose 90 games. But it would be….different. Don’t expect miracles overnight, and that’s a concern. “Same ol’ same ol’” many will say if there is not an immediate turnaround, and it’s a 90-loss season. How could anyone expect this roster, as currently constructed to be a contender? It’s not gonna happen…rightnow!
I’ve been patient, I will stay patient. It’s a beginning of a long process.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jan 28, 2012 9:18 PM CST reply actions
Some of the people here
won’t be satisfied unless the Cubs win like 14 World Series in a row, and then they still won’t be happy until the Cubs have won more WS titles than the Yankees.
But when the Cubs do win it, I expect the server that hosts this blog to melt from the strain.
"I lof to hit de home ron!"
I don't think that's accurate at all...
I think many of us are excited at the thought of a single WS win sometime in our lifetimes. No one has ever said anything about passing the Yankees and claim they wont rest until we do.
What we are saying, is that we would like a perennial contender, much like the Red Sox, Yankees, Rays, etc are creating. We want the CHANCE to think a WS is a possibility year in and year old, not predict 80-85 win seasons and hope for some luck.
I agree with Tekboy
Will the 4 of us being saying these things………………………… no but will there be a subset that will the say I bet they cant do it two years in a row. Yes there will be b/c that is how the internet normally works.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 30, 2012 4:46 PM CST up reply actions
Of course there will be excitement about the possibility of repeating...
But to say that we wouldn’t be satisfied with a single WS win? Isn’t that kind of the goal? Start with one (which would satisfy every single person here, no matter what), and then have the goal and plan to continue on to more?
I just take issue with the idea we wouldn’t be satisfied, as if we already expect multiple WS titles immediately. I just don’t think that’s true.
So you thing EVERY SINGLE PERSON on this site
Will think yeah we got one, but also think I"m happy b/c of that & not feel the need to post about how they aren’t going to be happy if the Cubs don’t win again?
I guess we can agree to disagree.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 31, 2012 8:29 AM CST up reply actions
I try to avoid blanket statements, as there will always be outliers from the norm.
I think the high from winning would last the entire offseason and early into the next season. It’d be ridiculous for me to claim that if we won I wouldn’t have the desire to repeat, but to claim I wouldn’t be happy with just one? I guess we just disagree.
I guess if someone told me, “bd, the Cubs are going to win one and only one WS in your lifetime.” I’d be happy as hell just knowing that I actually get to witness it, and that my son will get to witness it as well, and hopefully my dad as well. I would then hope with everything I had that my son would get to enjoy more than just that one, or that he was old enough to enjoy it like I would.
Have you noticed how people on the internet sometimes have unrealistic expections?
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 31, 2012 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
What? You mean I'm not going to win that 100 million dollar lottery that
I just wired the $500? That Nigerian lawyer swore that it was all legit!
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jan 31, 2012 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
Wow, that was a dumb move...
Everyone knows to only trust Nigerian princes….
I really just want to see,
The Cubs play like they care. Last season was the first I stopped watching them, it was too obvious, save for a few players, the team could give two S**** and it showed.
I want to see the basic fundamentals be the first part of their game, not the White or Blue Flag, but the game come first. Do the little things right, and the rest will follow. I do not care if the Cubs occupy the cellar for 162, I want to see them care to play and play it right, develop those skills especially in the young players and start building the foundation of a strong team, that knows how to play the game right, has pride in it and themselves, and gets the swagger a champion needs.
I’m not saying I do not want to see the Cubs win, or would not be thrilled this all fell in place in say 15 games, but unless these happen it is simply a wasted year with nothing gained. I miss the days I followed them day in and day out, lived off their every win or loss. I want those days back, but the Cubs need to show me they care for that to happen.
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Feb 1, 2012 3:28 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
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