Report: Carlos Zambrano Traded To Marlins For Chris Volstad
by Al Yellon on Jan 4, 2012 4:53 PM CST
in Chicago Cubs News
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UPDATE at 6:35 pm CT from Bruce Levine of ESPN Chicago:
The Chicago Cubs are trading Carlos Zambrano to the Miami Marlins, according to a source familiar with the situation.
The deal, which is pending physicals, requires the Cubs to pay $15 million of the $18 million owed Zambrano in 2012. Zambrano has a $19 million vesting option for 2013 if he finishes in the top four for the Cy Young Award.
The Cubs will receive veteran right-handed pitcher Chris Volstad.
We don't really know much right now about this report, so I'll just pass along the tweet from Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports:
@Ken_Rosenthal
Ken Rosenthal Sources: #Marlins close to acquiring Carlos Zambrano from #Cubs. #MLB
FavoriteRetweet
Salary relief is what I'd be hoping for in any Z to the Marlins deal. This sort of deal had been rumored ever since Ozzie Guillen, a close friend of Zambrano's, became manager of the Marlins; Big Z would seem to be a good fit for them, and though he does still have considerable talent, it's time for a change both for him and for the team.
What I'd want in return is primarily salary relief, though I assume the Marlins would send a prospect or two the Cubs' way. Or maybe Gaby Sanchez could be involved in a larger deal. We await further developments. I'll update this post if/when a trade is made official.
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IS it too much
wishful thinking that Gaby Sanchez is coming to Chicago with this deal
You can be whatever you want to be, just put your mind to it and work hard! -Dad
Maybe not.
Depending on the salary relief.
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If the Cubs eat the entire 18 million, and protect Miami from the option......
the Cubs would still have to include more to get Sanchez.
"It will happen because our major-league coaching staff is more prepared than their counterparts across the field."
by louslovechild on Jan 4, 2012 4:58 PM CST up reply actions
Soto?
I can’t think of the Marlins catcher off the top of my head …
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
LoMo...
May be more realistic? feel like he’s worn out his welcome there.
Our bad attitude for your bad attitude makes sense.
And after Theo said he gets another chance at being a Cub today.
I thought that was so shrewd
I love and hate how close to the vest he plays everything.
all he has to do now i say he'd never trade garza for turner, porcello, castellanos, verlander, and miggy
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 4:59 PM CST up reply actions
There is question as to whether or not Garza was enough to get LoMo
"It will happen because our major-league coaching staff is more prepared than their counterparts across the field."
by louslovechild on Jan 4, 2012 4:58 PM CST up reply actions
Not realistic
Morrison has a lot of value. If the Marlins want to trade him, they’d have better offers from other teams.
Words...cannot...
You’ll be lucky to get a bag of balls for Zambrano, let alone a young, cost-controlled slugger like LoMo.
by mattisnotfrench on Jan 4, 2012 11:24 PM CST up reply actions
ozzie, hanley, z, wade, bosh, and lebron all in the same city
question is: who has the bigger ego?
Just wee-un.
Ozzie and Wade have rings
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Does anybody?
~Ronald Reagan has held the two most demeaning jobs in the country; President of the United States and radio broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs~ George F. Will
by unretrofied93 on Jan 4, 2012 4:58 PM CST up reply actions
I always hope an AL team will be stupid enough to take him as a DH but not seeing it happen..
In Theo and Jed I trust.
we can always hope
hendry gets hired by someone
by Mike the ex cub fan on Jan 4, 2012 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
I l.o.v.e. this plan!~
There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011
Goodbye Z.
Not going to miss your shit.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 is going into the Hall of Fame!!
by mrcubsfan on Jan 4, 2012 4:56 PM CST via mobile reply actions
the only cub
besides reed that wanted to win
by Mike the ex cub fan on Jan 4, 2012 5:29 PM CST up reply actions
the only cub
besides milton bradley that is borderline crazy
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 5:30 PM CST up reply actions
Eat 12M
Take the other 6, throw that in the piggy bank labeled “Matt Garza’s Extension”
~Ronald Reagan has held the two most demeaning jobs in the country; President of the United States and radio broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs~ George F. Will
This is some good news.
I’m all for putting whatever salary relief they get in a Garza extension. That is, unless the Tigers are willing to trade Turner.
Actually, I agree with both sides of this.
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Sure, I'd definitely take Volstad in this deal.
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I'll (not) drink to that...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jan 4, 2012 5:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I hope Theo
would Act on that.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
by timh815 on Jan 4, 2012 5:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If this does turn out to be true...
…I’d have to think a pitcher would be coming back. The one thing Z still has/had to offer the Cubs is rotation depth.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Z for Volstad
… and the Cubs pay 2/3 of the contract. Done and done.
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Or, at least that's what I would want.
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After a very quick glance at Volstad's numbers...
…I think I’d be OK with that deal, too. He’s not great but, like Paul Maholm, he has a very strong career groundball percentage — and Volstad is only 25.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
A lot can happen between now and his prime years, and CHEAP TEAM CONTROL!!! WHOOHOOO!!!
~Ronald Reagan has held the two most demeaning jobs in the country; President of the United States and radio broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs~ George F. Will
by unretrofied93 on Jan 4, 2012 5:14 PM CST up reply actions
Young cost controlled pitcher....
who can keep the ball down. That coupled with salary relief would be a good move for the Cubs. Probably the best they can get.
Yeah, he may be the kind of low-cost, some-upside guy...
…Theo & Jed seem to be focusing on. Volstad did appear to take a step forward last year — his walk rate dropped and his xFIP was a pretty decent 3.64.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Not to mention...
The possible clubhouse tension relief involved if Z goes. That’s worth something.
My impression is that there really wasn't anyone in the clubhouse
who gave a rat’s ass about Carlos and his outbursts.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
The Kaplan piece that JOVE23 links to below...
…would seem to indicate differently.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
He can be irritating at times...
…but I’m willing to believe the quote is real.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Well this is
good news and Theo is sure a shrewd dude. Now I’ll just await the finality of this deal..please make it so!
Wow, this team will have no body on it that I want to see besides Kerry Wood
I’m expecting only a handful of sold out games this season, IF that.
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
Why would anyone
want to watch Castro?
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
I want to watch him die
my stepdad has a hand-rolled Cuban cigar he’s waiting to smoke when Fid…wait, wrong Castro.
by JOVE23 on Jan 4, 2012 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well hopefully it will lead one day to a WS
which will lead to sold out games for years
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Yeah, I know what Theo and Jed are trying to do
But if this team does not put some talent or popular players on the field, people will not buy tickets if they think this team will not perform well in 2012. If this team isn’t improved more over the off season, there’s no point wasting money going to games when you could just watch them on TV.
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
That is an issue.
Hopefully, they are clearing enough money to sign Prince Fielder. I know, it’s a longshot. But that would help.
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One day in ... what, are we up to 10 years yet
with the rebuilding? Pittsburgh, here we come.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 4, 2012 11:28 PM CST up reply actions
This would totally crack me up if this happens today.
My husband and I both listened to Theo’s interview today. My husband gathered from what Theo said that they were keeping Z. I said that wasn’t how I took it at all and that I thought it meant he wasn’t about to put up with any crap. We’ll see who’s right.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
He's so crafty.
Theo, I mean. Not sure about your husband.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
I took it to mean both.
Keeping Z, with no crap allowed.
"The cheaper the hood, the gaudier the talk" - Philip Marlowe
by ForTheLoveOfBiitner on Jan 4, 2012 5:26 PM CST up reply actions
This just
validates or better yet debunks all the rumors and tweets that have been flying around about the Cubs lately, It seems only a select few know what Theo/Jed are doing, and I for one am just fine with that.
You can be whatever you want to be, just put your mind to it and work hard! -Dad
by scottydo on Jan 4, 2012 5:07 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
100% agreed.
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by Al Yellon on Jan 4, 2012 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
They have been telling people what they want to do
1. Add Pitching, Defense, and more Athletic on the bases.
2. Don’t sacrifice the long-term for short-term success.
3. Turning short-term assets into long-term assets.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 4, 2012 7:38 PM CST up reply actions
3. Turning short-term asses into long-term assets.
heh heh heh…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jan 4, 2012 7:39 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Wait - so tonight Carlos could be sleeping with the fishes?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jan 4, 2012 5:08 PM CST reply actions 10 recs
so stealing that
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
^THIS!^
Hell, I’d thank Z for the memories (good n bad), the HRs (of value and valueless), the laughs (some at and some with him) and personally drive him to O’Hare. Hell, I’ll buy him a brew, a Chicago souvenier…and, if we get some financial relief/value player in return…he can have my GF for the nite! /sorry Debby!/
There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011
/after 6:35 update.../
Vrrrroooom….VRRRROOOOOM!!! “Hello Deb! Whatcha doing tonite?….nothing…really?! wanna meet me in about 20 mins…I gotta drive to O’Hare…” :]
There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011
It's like you don't even know us anymore....
you’ve changed.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 4, 2012 5:18 PM CST up reply actions
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 4, 2012 5:11 PM CST up reply actions
let me guess...
you hang out at r/circlejerk… right?
Check out the Video Blog I host: WebSmart TV
by digitalbenjamin on Jan 4, 2012 8:47 PM CST up reply actions
THIS.
Check out the Video Blog I host: WebSmart TV
by digitalbenjamin on Jan 5, 2012 8:54 AM CST up reply actions
I'm guessing this means Garza is here to stay.
Unless we get a fair amount of salary relief to get a couple FA SP. No way we go into the season with a rotation of Demp, Wood, Wells,?, and ?.
Everything but Under 25 SS are leaving town.
Maybe Cashner stays, but I think everything on this roster that can acquire assets is gone. Byrd, Soto, Garza.
"It will happen because our major-league coaching staff is more prepared than their counterparts across the field."
by louslovechild on Jan 4, 2012 5:14 PM CST up reply actions
We'll see.
I’m not huge on the whole ticket sale issue, but I can’t possibly see how they’d market a team with that kind of rotation. But hey, if there’s still big interest in Garza, I hope by all means that Theo and Jed listen.
Hopefully we get some payroll relief out of this deal
Maybe Dempster will be willing to defer some of his 2012 salary to go along with this deal?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
Close
as in hours? Or next Tuesday?
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
"Close" never does get defined via Twitter.
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"Never" doesn't get defined via BCB
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 4, 2012 5:22 PM CST up reply actions
I, for one, am gonna miss him
Given his durability, he emerged as the best ouf of the Prior/Wood/Zambrano triumvirate. His antics aside, he seemed the only one who gave a damn most of the time.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jan 4, 2012 5:16 PM CST reply actions 14 recs
gimme shelter too then...we'd better fill that hole in our rotation
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
who likes giving up home runs--perfect for Wrigley
I’ll take him in exchange for shipping the Big Z out of town, though. Talk about addition by subtraction!
I could've lived with Z for another season, just for old time's sake.
Or better yet — lived with him for half a season and traded him at the deadline. But I’m curious to see what kind of deal Theo & Jed have put together here, assuming there’s some fire behind this smoke.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Tell Mike it was only business
I always liked him.
Durability?
You mean, from the guy who hasn’t made more than 30 starts in a season since 2007?
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well, relative to the other two
is what I should have said, my bad.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I know we're in the minority.
But I too will miss Z if this goes through. After the last few years it may be finally time to move on, but he was a hell of a pitcher for a long time, we can’t say that about too many other guys. And hey, he always gave us something to talk about. BCB would have been less entertaining the last few years without Z.
I, for one, hope the door hits him in the ass on the way out.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
....
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 4, 2012 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 12 recs
Can you smmmeeeeeeeelllllllllllllllllllllllll... what the Z is cookin'
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
"Hey, who slammed that door on my ass?!"
“Nevermind, it was funny.”
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Me too.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
His groin and elbow would like to have a word with you about durability...
It's 106 miles to Chicago...
Hey, I'll talk to his elbow...
…but I am NOT speaking to his groin.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
by daver on Jan 4, 2012 6:33 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
again, relative to the other two I mentioned
they were all intertwined for several years
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I'll miss him also.
Unfortunately he wasted a ton of talent. It was time to go. I can see him winning 15 games next year.
Shame he is nuts like bat shit.
I'd actually like him to get #4 in Cy Young voting this year
Just to give the Marlins $19M less payroll.
Why is salary relief what we should be seeking here?
Have we given up being a large market franchise?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
Sure have, we may as well start flushing 100's down the toilet, we've got em so why not?
~Ronald Reagan has held the two most demeaning jobs in the country; President of the United States and radio broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs~ George F. Will
by unretrofied93 on Jan 4, 2012 5:20 PM CST up reply actions
Occupy Wrigley Field
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 4, 2012 5:22 PM CST up reply actions
What should we seek for Big Z?
He’s not going to yield top prospects, so I think the idea is to at least get some help with his salary.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
We've already slashed the hell out of the payroll
It was worth the roll of the dice that he could rebound on a contract year push and actually brought something of tangible value at some point.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
I trust Theo Inc
with Rickeets payroll.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
The point of salary relief here
… would be to extend Garza. That would be worth doing, IMO.
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I don't really think that's a factor
It’s not like they don’t have the money now to extend him. It’s a question of how much will he cost vs. the expected return of trading him. That’s all. A few million dollars here isn’t going to change that.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Jan 4, 2012 9:40 PM CST up reply actions
Y'know, I actually kinda agree with you.
But maybe Theo is getting an early start on establishing the “Cubs Way” and/or perhaps there’s more to this deal than meets the eye.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
I'm completely cool with this deal
Volstad seems like a reasonable gamble going forward. Nice trade by Thoyer.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
From the link
Several players have confirmed to me that Zambrano would have to change dramatically to be welcomed back on the team because of the number of incidents that he has had during his Cubs career, many of which alienated his teammates. As one Cubs veteran told me recently, “if this was a one time thing we would welcome him back and do all we could to make it work. However, this is the fifth or sixth time he has had an incident and at some point you have to cut ties and move on.”
Agree with this completely.
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Dont get me wrong....I want it to happen...I believe it needs to happen for the long term growth of this team....
Just waiting for it to happen before I get excited
OOps, according to some sentiment expressed around here, Theo just killed...
big Zero’s trade value.
which cubs veteran could have said this?
there aren’t a whole lot left!
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 4, 2012 8:32 PM CST up reply actions
Soriano, dempster?
They both (stats & bikinis) show a lot, but not everything. - Infielder Toby Harrah
Poster formerly known as Wrigster.
by bilbosbuttons on Jan 4, 2012 8:52 PM CST up reply actions
I'd go with Demp
Geo wouldn’t say that about any of his starters, Woody’s only been back a couple of years and missed some stuff, Reed’s just happy to have a contract, and Sori doesn’t use English idiom that well.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Same here.
I’d bet it was Dempster, too.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
I can't imagine Soriano saying it.
Demp, maybe.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 4, 2012 10:33 PM CST up reply actions
It's Z for Volstad
@Enrique_Rojas1
Enrique Rojas/ESPN
Source: #Cubs and #Marlins talking trading Zambrano for Volstad. ESPNdeportes.com es.pn/xTe8Pb
wicked good
partly because it’s better than nothing and partly because he threw at nyjer morgan, leading to gaby sanchez clotheslining morgan
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 5:53 PM CST up reply actions
Ha, forgot about that.
Additional points to Volstad.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Really?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Wow, well done.
I’m not sure what I was doing on Sept. 7, 2010, but I completely missed that thread.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Wow.
Would LOVE this deal. Hope it happens that way.
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Why are we that excited about Volstad?
4.50 ERA guy.. what am I missing?
Agreed.
Volstad is only 25. Definitely has upside.
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Two reasons
1) Bounceback guy – he’s been bad for 3 years but when he’s good he’s amazing
2) Zambrano goes bye bye
He's been bad for 3 years.
Out of 4 years….
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
by Tackle Box on Jan 4, 2012 5:59 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
50.4% career groundball percentage.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
When batters make contact
they hit a grounder 50.4% of the time
I just re-read what you wrote
I feel like an idiot, so here’s a baby sloth:
by JOVE23 on Jan 4, 2012 6:04 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
Not sure off the top of my head...
…what league average GB% is, but anything up around 50% is very good. That means half of the balls put in play against him are on the ground, where they’re much more likely to be converted into outs.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Yeah I get the implications.
Just didn’t know if there was an actual avg. Thanks though.
In Theo and Jed I trust.
What kind of defense has Miami had in their infield the past few years?
Off the top of my head, Hanley has declining range and Uggla is pathetic defensively correct? So maybe he hasn’t had the best defense behind him the last three years? With Stewart and Barney being solid defenders, and Castro having great physical tools and improving overall skills, maybe we are a better fit for Volstad.
Uggla is now on the Braves
but I can see where you’re coming from
Still need a better defensive 1B than LaHair.
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Eh.
I think he’s average, not Dunn-like or anything. If we can have three solid defenders in the rest of the infield I think we’ll be fine. But if Theo wants a good defensive 1B he’s more than welcome to go after Rizzo….
The thing is
… Pena saved Castro some throwing errors. I’m not sure that LaHair will.
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Come on Al
You were willing to hand-over 1B to Jesus Montero. Obviously defense is not high on your list of concerns.
I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
It was just a passing thought.
Defense IS important.
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Hope so...
…especially if we have Volstad, Wood and Wells in the rotation.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
That would be a good fresh start for both guys.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
That's pretty good
Volstad is someone who has underperformed for a while. He’s a good bounce back candidate.
He was the Marlins #1 pick in 2005.
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He was the Marlins #1 Prospect
according to Baseball America as recently as 2008. He was the #58 prospect in all of baseball. Baseball America said he should be “A #3 pitcher for years to come.” He hasn’t come close to that except in his rookie year.
Z for Volstad
I’d throw in flippin Szczur to get that done.
Theo won’t
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
You think that highly of Volstad?
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
I think that highly of dumping Z for
a MLB player
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
I wouldn't.
But sure, send a lower level prospect.
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Like I said,
Theo won’t. Which indicates how happy I’ll be.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Tell me about
Matt Dominguez
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
rumored added piece
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
good fielder
grabow would make him look foolish
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 6:03 PM CST up reply actions
Phew... I've been waiting for this...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
Please, everybody
pass your physicals
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
My cholesterol was a little high and so was my red blood cell count
But I appreciate you taking such an interest in my health!
(smartassery)
Frighteningly enough...
…I believe Z has gotten a little banged up playing Venezuelan Winter Ball.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Please tell me this physical
doesn’t check for mental health.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
I'm sure Theo has a way around that... :]
There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011
That "and/or" is a little off-putting.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Looks like
Both Volstad and Dominguez is on the Marlin’s 40-man.
The Cubs I believe are at 40 as well.
Another Roster Gate?
Maybe they want DeWitt
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Capozzi's article...
… sounds like he’s guessing, but that Volstad is more likely.
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I took the "and" to mean a package deal
as opposed to “the two guys the Cubs want are Volstad and (maybe if that doesn’t happen) Dominquez,” but I may well be wrong.
I'm guessing all 3 are on planes
now or soon. Hanley to 3B kills any value for Dominguez.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
If the Cubs could get both those guys, great.
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Sounds more serious now
JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
cubs will obvs pay the bulk of zambrano’s $18M salary in the zambrano-volstad trade. #marlins
"It will happen because our major-league coaching staff is more prepared than their counterparts across the field."
Any guesses on how much?
I’m going to say the Cubs will pay $12 million.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
That sounds fair
6 million in relief and Volstad.
or not
@clarkspencer
#cubs will eat all of Zambrano’s $18 million salary minus minimum in trade with #marlins for Volstad
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 6:25 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe this is encouraging?
Here’s hoping it means we’re getting more than just Volstad in return. It basically means the Cubs are using Zambrano as large, angry credit card that allows them to buy young players with decent upside.
Theo's continuing
Botox session with the big league roster continues.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Dempster isn't a clubhouse cancer and is less of a gasoline can on a fire.
It's 106 miles to Chicago...
Yes, when used for what he is...
a decent #4 starting pitcher that should be yanked off the mound when he loses the strike zone in the 6th inning…he’s not too bad.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 4, 2012 6:44 PM CST up reply actions
That would be up to the manager to make sure he's pulled.
Will depend upon whether last year was regression or an anomaly.
It's 106 miles to Chicago...
Id settle for the stupid Harry impersonation he does
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
I respectfully disagree.
Of course, I am sentimentally attached to his being a Cub, so take my response as you will.
Lol
ESPNChiCubs Bruce Levine
Cubs and marlins agree on trade that sends p Carlos Zambrano in exchange for Chris volstad .cubs pay 15 of 18 million .
17'$ h4pp3n1n9!?!?!?
So no one really knows how much...
the Cubs are really going to pay.
$3 million of salary relief
I’ll take it.
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Sold American!
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Volstad is presumbaly due a raise from....
The 500K he earned last year. So technically it will be under $3 million, maybe under $2.5 mil.
His numbers weren't
stellar last year.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
He is arb eligible
So even if it’s $2 million, it’s something.
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You're right...
Anything’s better than nothing. And you get addition by subtraction. That’s worth something.
I thought i just read 2.6 somewhere......
~Ronald Reagan has held the two most demeaning jobs in the country; President of the United States and radio broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs~ George F. Will
by unretrofied93 on Jan 4, 2012 6:40 PM CST up reply actions
Correction: MLBTR is claiming Cubs are paying 18M of his 15M salary
Yes you read that correctly
I jest i jest
~Ronald Reagan has held the two most demeaning jobs in the country; President of the United States and radio broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs~ George F. Will
by unretrofied93 on Jan 4, 2012 6:35 PM CST up reply actions
damn they just fixed it
~Ronald Reagan has held the two most demeaning jobs in the country; President of the United States and radio broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs~ George F. Will
by unretrofied93 on Jan 4, 2012 6:37 PM CST up reply actions
Are you f'n kidding me??
I love you Theo.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Garza, Dempster
Wood, Volstad, and Cashner.
Not embarrassing
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Not as embarrassing as Z could sometimes be.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
Yeah, that's interesting at the very least.
Of course, the question then becomes: What happens to Randy Wells?
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Wells to Rays for David Price
~Ronald Reagan has held the two most demeaning jobs in the country; President of the United States and radio broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs~ George F. Will
by unretrofied93 on Jan 4, 2012 6:37 PM CST up reply actions
and Longo
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
I heard we threw in Dewitt for Moore also
~Ronald Reagan has held the two most demeaning jobs in the country; President of the United States and radio broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs~ George F. Will
by unretrofied93 on Jan 4, 2012 6:38 PM CST up reply actions
Nah, Lincecum is going to break soon, it's only a matter of time.....
~Ronald Reagan has held the two most demeaning jobs in the country; President of the United States and radio broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs~ George F. Will
by unretrofied93 on Jan 4, 2012 6:38 PM CST up reply actions
I hope this is sarcasm.
If so, DeWitt for Lincecum. Then, Lincecum for ADAM LIND!
Tom Brady. Nuff said.
Lets get Lincecum and flip him for Kershaw
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
I'd rather see Randy Wells as #5
… with Cashner in the bullpen.
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Why the hell
Does anyone want to see Cashner in the bullpen?
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
I'm thinking his injury was pretty bad and would like to see him start up again in the bullpen.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
I forgot about Wells
Not sure how that happened.
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
I wonder how comparable Cashner is to Daniel Bard.
Could Theo see him more in that light?
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Very possible.
Or, maybe Theo’s going to trade Marmol and can install Cashner as closer.
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I'd still rather he get another opportunity to be a starter.
Maybe they could have him begin the season in Iowa.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Absolutely
Bullpen is for failed starters and pitchers that can’t develop a second pitch.
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
Me, too!
Wait, I don’t have a first pitch.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 4, 2012 8:01 PM CST up reply actions
I can't tell if you're being facicious or not,
but this is totally my thought of how bullpens should be run.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Whatever, if this is the best Theo can do, I have no problem with it
Shame it had to come to this. Z is one of my favorite Cubs ever. Always bugged me how the media threw him under the bus when they started losing for the very antics that endeared him to everyone while they were winning. I guess people just need a scapegoat, and he made an easy target. Personally, I’ll be rooting for him to bounce back.
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
He broke everything from Gatorade dispensers to bats to friendships and probably more.
He wasn’t a scapegoat, he wasn’t thrown under the bus. He did all of it.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Meh, those things were overblown
He did most of that same stuff early in his career, but people looked past it. I also think part of it was that he was trying to live up to this larger than life personality that he had built up. So sometimes he would do things w/o truly thinking that they were all that bad. I think at his core he’s a good guy and good teammate. This was NOT a Milton Bradley situation
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 4, 2012 6:43 PM CST up reply actions
...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 4, 2012 6:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
See my comment above
I’m not arguing that he didn’t do some dumb things, but I think mostly he was just a really good guy that made some poor decisions
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 4, 2012 6:44 PM CST up reply actions
Btw, it's not like I wanted him to stay on the team
Theo had to get rid of him for rebuilding reasons more than anything. No point in having him in this team. I was just saying it’s a shame that his career as a Cub had to end that way, and now he’ll probably get booed every time he’s in town.
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 4, 2012 6:46 PM CST up reply actions
Some will cheer, some will boo.
The bottom line is, it was time for him to go.
BTW, Cubs play the Marlins in Miami in April. They’ll likely see Z very early in the year.
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like I said, def agree that he had to go
Just hope there is more cheers than boos. At least the first time back.
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 4, 2012 6:48 PM CST up reply actions
I'm sorry but he brought it all on himself.
I can understand a blowup or 2 MAYBE. Not 5 or 6. C’mon now, he throws tantrums like a kid, not like someone making 18M/yr.
In Theo and Jed I trust.
He's very immature, no doubt about that
But you have to remember that a lot of his tantrums were celebrated early in his career. It got him on ESPN, and is one of the reasons he was so popular. I think he just got caught up in that aspect of his celebrity. idk, maybe I’m way off base, but that’s just the way I saw things (as they got worse)
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 4, 2012 6:50 PM CST up reply actions
Early in his career?
um……no…sorry, but thanks for playing “make stuff up to bolster your opinion”.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 4, 2012 6:55 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
I was just going to link to our own posts.
But this’ll do.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
That's Al's schtick
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 4, 2012 6:58 PM CST up reply actions
And that doesn't even include...
…his early retirement party in 2011.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
at some point
z had to stop shooting himself in the foot
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 6:50 PM CST up reply actions
This is very true
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 4, 2012 6:51 PM CST up reply actions
Those shots were just poor decisions.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 4, 2012 6:51 PM CST up reply actions
he thought the safety was on
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 6:52 PM CST up reply actions
it was the racists fault!
oh wait, wrong crazy guy
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 7:01 PM CST up reply actions
AYFKM?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 4, 2012 6:42 PM CST up reply actions
I think I need a bigger picture
The last two didn’t really make your disagreement clear enough
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 4, 2012 6:48 PM CST up reply actions
I'm sorry, you must have been misunderstood...
…much like your friend Zambrano.
It's 106 miles to Chicago...
When does the narwhal bacon?
"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." Carl Sagan
I'll probably write something further about this in the morning.
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Vostad and Travis Wood??
Youre a beast Theo
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
You really must have a thing for crappy starting pitching.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jan 4, 2012 6:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I would prefer to see those guys
… as 25-year-olds with considerable upside.
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Wood has upside...
…not so much regarding Volstad.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Have you seen Volstad over the last couple of years?
There is not much upside there. Sorry.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
He's 25 years old.
I’d say there’s still a chance he can become a decent MLB starter.
If he were 30, I’d agree with you.
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3.64 xFIP and over a 50% GB rate?
Of course there is upside.
Volstad is a former top prospect and first round pick.
He definitely has as least as much upside as Wood.
Both are going to be just 25 this year and have each already had one strong season each.
Theo got two young starters who both have #3 upside. The lack of any other young SP in the organization makes me that more excited about those two.
And probably means no more RoLo!
Rejoice!
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Theo and Jed are already following this advice.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 4, 2012 7:01 PM CST up reply actions
I'm sorry but almost ALL of Z's contract...
…and only acquiring Volstad? This is Jed getting bent over a desk with his pants around his ankles. If true it’s a poor excuse for a trade.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
You'd have to pay it anyways??
Plus you’re getting similar production from someone who is not a complete ass bag
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
by Hammer on Jan 4, 2012 6:44 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
and he drops the Hammer!
pun time?
~Ronald Reagan has held the two most demeaning jobs in the country; President of the United States and radio broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs~ George F. Will
by unretrofied93 on Jan 4, 2012 6:44 PM CST up reply actions
Similar production? I agree with the ass bag comment...
…but they are no where close in production.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
I guess similiar is not the best word
But he had to go
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
I agree he had to go, but if they were going to eat his contract anyway...
…they could have waited when a team was in a position of need and traded him then with more in return. These are grown ass men, they could have co-existed for a few months until they found a suitor.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
+3 Avg. WAR per season his entire career. Yes he was pretty good and still is
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Having a +3 WAR is great
unless you keep declining. Last 3 seasons – 3.6, then 2.3. then 0.9.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 4, 2012 7:07 PM CST up reply actions
I understand but between his blowups in 2010 and 2011
at one point he went 17 -5, or something in that area.
He is still capable.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
True, but they wanted to turn another short-term asset
into a long-term asset. Volstad is in his first year of arbitration.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 4, 2012 7:18 PM CST up reply actions
And wait for the next blowup?
No thanks.
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Umm
Zambrano last year: 81 ERA+
Volstad: 80 ERA+
All antics aside, Carlos Zambrano isn’t very good at pitching anymore. And he’s 30.
"I wouldn't know a steroid from a reefer." -Lou Piniella
Last year....
They were real close. Volstad had a slightly higher ERA at 4.89 compared to Z’s 4.82, however he struck out more and issued less walks.
They were fairly similar last year.
And considering their ages, they’re probably going in two different directions…
They're not?
WAR last year: Volstad 1.3, Z 0.9
WAR 2010: Z 2.3, Volstad 1.8
Two year total: Z 3.2 (44 starts 270 IP), Volstad 3.1 (59 starts, 340 IP)
So since WAR is cumulative, we can definitely judge that Z has been a little better….. but they are indeed pretty similar.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
Also can't forget about Z's batting
Z also had 1.5 WAR with his bat in 2010 and 2011
Volstad was .1 during that time.
Zambrano's personality WAR was much, much lower, however.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
but he does have the advantage in
teammates and Gatorade cooler attacks
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Z does add something offensively.
But I’ll stand by the statement that the two are similar.
Not to mention that Z’s best years are clearly behind him.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
Almost identical in 2011 - who is the better candidate to improve?
I’d go with the 25 year old who doesn’t have 1,000,000,000 miles on his arm.
I feel like we should've gotten more
if we are paying that much of the salary
Added a poll on this trade to the sidebar.
Please vote.
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Classy.
@joecapMARLINS
joe capozzi
Hearing unconfirmed reports that two water coolers already have been smashed in dugout at new #Marlins ballpark…
by JOVE23 on Jan 4, 2012 6:50 PM CST reply actions 7 recs
It was Hanley seeing the lineup card with his name in CF
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
by Hammer on Jan 4, 2012 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
They better watch out for that big new fish tank they're installing at the new Marlins park.
Keep Z away from that.
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by Al Yellon on Jan 4, 2012 6:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I dont
think those of you that are upset about this are seeing the full picture, Z, in part thanks to him and Jim Hendry had no trade value, so any salary relief and a servicable player is a double win for this team NOW and LATER.
You can be whatever you want to be, just put your mind to it and work hard! -Dad
Sorry but I won't believe it until I see Z announce it during a half-hour special on ESPN.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Z is no LeBron.
He gets two minutes during a commercial break on the Home Shopping Network.
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LeBron is no Big Z
Go ask a water cooler.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 4, 2012 6:57 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed - at least Z has been known to finish a game every now and then...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
You're putting HSN below ESPN?
You really give ESPN to much credit. :)
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Heh.
Maybe. How about the History Channel?
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CARLOS ZAMBRANO IS ACTUALLY AN ANCIENT ALIEN
by JOVE23 on Jan 4, 2012 6:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I watch it for a good laugh.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
it just goes to show you how you can put your own spin on anything....
…sometimes I catch myself saying “hey, that’s possible”!
:)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
The history channel sucks
"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." Carl Sagan
It really does.
Remember when they showed programs on, you know, HISTORY?!
The old history channel?
I can give you like $4 for that
"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." Carl Sagan
I really want this in my store
but I have to make a profit off of it.
hate those shows....one is on right now...that's why I'm here :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
I love the WWII docs but we don't see much of those anymore...
…on that channel.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Gotta watch their spinoff channel, Military History
that channel rules! Nothing but military docs mostly WWII
"Go Cubs!"
I miss that...
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 4, 2012 7:20 PM CST up reply actions
Tweet from Miami Herald beat reporter
@clarkspencer
#cubs will eat all of Zambrano’s $18 million salary minus minimum in trade with #marlins for Volstad
That tweet was sent out BEFORE...
… the other tweets indicating the Cubs will pay about $15 million of the $18 million.
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you're trying to validate tweets based on timestamps?
Careful Al – that is one slippery slope you’re on….
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I can't hear you over the Irony of Al's post.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 4, 2012 7:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually, my point was
… that you can’t necessarily believe everything that’s tweeted.
Which I have said many, many times before.
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If that was your point
you chose a bizarre way to make it. Logic?
The reality is that you selectively believe the tweets you want to believe. Same with news outlet reports. It’s always been that way – why not just own up to it?
The Miami Herald reporter’s tweet has just as much credibility as any other posted here.
who gives a crap?
The deal will be announced and the numbers will be known.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 4, 2012 7:17 PM CST up reply actions
Fine.
Here to slam me again, I see.
There have been SEVERAL tweets indicating the $15 million amount. ONE saying what you have posted.
Now, if I had time, I would post all of the ones corroborating my belief. But really, who has time to do that just to prove you wrong?
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Holy crap.
Do you sit around all day at your computer thinking of ways to troll here?
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Running azjazzman totals
Comments at AZ Snake Pit: 293
Comments at Bleed Cubbie Blue: 3450
That needle is still buried in the red for “Troll”, bro.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
One down one to go
Soriano your countdown has begun
My take on Z
He only flipped out and went crazy when we were losing. Here is my projection, he will have good season this year and have an ERA around 3.20 and may hit 4-7 HRs depending on how the new park plays. If Miami is out of contention early, look to him for a good Gatorade smashing. I do think it is time for him to go I whould have like the deal better if it was like ten million. I am figureing this is the best Theo was getting I wonder if they could have done a stipulation deal if Z is a good boy we pay ten if he is a bad boy we pay 18.
Yes that's what we need....players that SUCK but give full effort.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
i hear ryan theriot's available..
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 7:05 PM CST up reply actions
yes please...I really like those full effort players.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
He gives a full effort though. ;)
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
He can give you a ground ball double play at the worst moment.
Can Jackson do that?
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
The whole team did this it wasnt a Marlon thing
And I dont want to keep him for the next five year.
We wont get anything trading him away.
well we didn't get anything trading Z...so it would be par for the course.
Seriously though, Jackson is ready. There is no reason keeping Byrd at this point.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Marlon hit under .200 with risp.
doesn’t walk much, strikes out a ton, doesn’t have much power. Sorry dude, but Marlon Byrd isn’t very good, and unlike Soriano he’s actually tradeable.
I'd trade Byrd for a wet sock.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jan 4, 2012 7:12 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I've got some!.....
"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." Carl Sagan
It depends on what it was encrusted with.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Why?
He’s good, works hard, and from all accounts is a great teammate.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I'm sensing sarcasm.....I hope.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
I think he's both a good trade chip (he has value) and somebody I'd want on the team.
His bWAR and fWAR the last two years with the Cubs have been between 2.5-4.4 in 2010, and 1.7-2.0 in 2011. He’s a good defender and has always been a career-average offensive player.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I could honestly couldn't give a shit if he's a good guy.
As long as he’s not an ass like some we have been acustomed to. I definitely would want to see him go, mainly because it frees up money and gives Jackson a spot, who I suspect could very well outperform Byrd in 2012. If we get a decent prospect in return then that’s gravy.
Right, I can agree with that.
However, we’ve had our share of jerks the last few years, and methinks a guy with some good positive attitude can still go a long way in helping out the rookies.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Meh.
Reed is just as good a guy, in fact I like his attitude more than Byrd. We still got Demp and Wood, and Soriano is actually supposed to be a really good teammate. I think what’s more important is that we got rid of our last clubhouse problem by dealing Z.
Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying Byrd's any sort of untouchable.
He’s a great chip and like you said, with Jackson waiting, maybe he will be moved soon.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
His ERA hasn't been anywhere near 3.20...
…since 2005. If he manages that in 30 starts, the Marlins will have gotten away with a steal — something they’re allegedly not unfamiliar with.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
True, but that season's results were muddled by...
…the team’s awful decision to put him in the bullpen. I was focusing more on full seasons as a starter.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
True, but he may have been one of the top three pitchers in baseball over the last two months in 2010.
He dominated every start in August and September.
Maybe they can attach him to their new sculpture
when he has one of his explosions.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
Vostad 2012 projection from Bill James
27 starts, 164 IP, and a 4.34 ERA,
He is 25 and in his 1st year of arbitration.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
i want to know his ERA against the East as compared to the Central
The central will have two less big bats and 1 for 50 games
Also have we played against him
And 27 starts is not a bad deal for this team next year not like we will conted
Well, I don't know about all that
But I found this:
Day: ERA = 3.60
Night: ERA = 5.23
Oh yeah baby! We Own the Daylight!!
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 4, 2012 7:14 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
This is the most cogent comment on this thread
Bravo Zulu
I enjoy this website because it's so interesting to see folks pole vaulting over mouse turds.
now you're thinking like TheJedi!!!!!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Lefties own him
I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
Some of Volstad's stats from last year that I don't understand:
ERA was 4.89, but FIP was 4.32 and xFIP was 3.64.
Chris Volstad: Intranational Man of Mystery
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 7:03 PM CST up reply actions
The xFIP is, arguably, what his ERA should have been.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
I look for a good season from Zambrano.
Tough love from Ozzie is what he needs.
But no way would that have happened with the Cubs.
It was time for him to go.
Good season from Zambrano
Why are you expecting this? The fact is that his stuff has diminshed and, aside from his nuttiness, he really hasn’t been good in a few years.
He was pretty good in 2010.
2011 was the first bad year of his career. How much of that was fluke and how much was him declining? I guess we’ll just have to find out, he could go either way.
Tribune alert
http://link.chicagotribune.com/r/J0PHE3/2LG53/DRN8GZ/7WHNO/OFD7IS/YT/h?a=1&b=4&c=12
House cleaning, now Soriano then Byrd and DeWitt
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
Note to all about to click that link
It says NOTHING about Soriano, Byrd or Dewitt. It is just a rehash of the info above.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 4, 2012 7:27 PM CST up reply actions
Man
I hope this is not a sign that we are never going to give Sori up.
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
Never gonna let you down
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
He's never gonna let the outfield wall, hurt him.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
by daver on Jan 4, 2012 7:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I was a little disappointed whenI looked up
Volstad’s numbers. Then I looked up Zs numbers the last 3 years, and they weren’t really much better. AND, Z is crazy.
So I’m good with this deal. I can’t say I’m excited about it, because we gave up a relatively young former ace for a fringe 4th/5th starter, but Z has really lost almost all value as a pitcher and a teammate. Volstad is probably about the best we could hope for, which isn’t saying much.
Volstad is still young and has upside, perhaps more than TWood.
Worst case he eats innings as a 4/5, best case he figures it out and becomes a strong three starter.
We are losing one of the few players that cared about wining
I understand that Zambrano did not handle his emotions to the best of his ability, but you cannot fault the man for having a passion for winning. Every time he exploded was due to a poor pitching performance. The man cared about carrying the team and trying to win.
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
He wasn't the only one
who cared about winning. He was just the only one who showed how he cared about winning by acting like a petulant lunatic.
by tomas21 on Jan 4, 2012 7:16 PM CST up reply actions 8 recs
Say what you want
But you cannot disagree that he was one of the few that brought injury to this lifeless team.
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
Injury worked too
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Z was misunderstood
Beneath all the bluster lay a cuddly, energetic cheerleader always pulling for the Cubs to do their best!
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
About having energetic players on the team?
I would hope every single baseball, check that, sports fans in the world!
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
I care about having good players who don't get suspended.
This plays with passion stuff doesn’t mean shit to me if it’s the reason he’s always getting in trouble.
DUMP GARZA
This is patently false
Every time he exploded was due to a poor pitching performance.
He exploded about errors behind him, perceived bad plays, etc. He routinely showed up teammates. Good riddance.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 4, 2012 7:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Matt Garza
Shows that emotion now, without all the other craziness.
But you're right.
Garza definitely brings energy, emotion and clearly wants to win. Yet he does it in a positive way.
Too bad Z couldn’t learn that.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I still hope he gets traded for a bucket full of talented youth.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
I'm talking about Garza, if they can find a team willing to unload young talent
then trade him.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
I don't know about that
By the time the Cubs are ready to compete Garza will be about 30 years old. Stockpiling youth is worth more than one arm.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
you missed the running joke
NBF has declared that trading and dumping are the same thing
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
sorry...I've been away for awhile. Seems like NBF is always at the.
…center of these things.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
here enjoy
Trade or dump, it’s all the same thing in the end.
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 4, 2012 9:48 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Wow that's like arguing 1 + 1 = 3
What a stupid argument, sorry I missed it.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
I'll take the over...
… and I’ll enjoy seeing Z in black and orange. Less headaches are a good thing.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
Black and orange?
You mean this multicolored monstrosity, right?
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Now that's an ugly lid
I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
I actually prefer them to the old Marlins uniforms
They were so bland.
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
I like orange...
But I don’t like orange with yellow and teal and black and white…
Tone down the number of colors and I’d like this. I actually like the logo (minus the coloration).
LOL, Robbman.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Over
I think Bryan LaHair will hit 25 home runs and have an OBP over .360. That will definitely get us above 70 wins.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 4, 2012 10:00 PM CST up reply actions
Seriously
I think LaHair is pretty good. Look at what he did in 20 games last season. Sure, sample size, but add that to what he did in Iowa.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 4, 2012 10:06 PM CST up reply actions
It will be interesting
to see him get a shot – and hopefully – pan out.
If not – they move on.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Well that's exciting, to say the least.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I hope you're right.
I fear you’re wrong.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I hope Lahair is hopefully the next mike morse or Nelson Cruz
And not a AAAA player.
If he is
… I’ll be happy to admit I was wrong.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Big Gulp on me
but I get off at Sheridan – so Ill just give you buck
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
I hope you are wrong too.
And LaHair does have a great season. He does have a lot to prove. And I hope he comes back to the states soon so he can get some time off.
It's not entirely unreasonable
LaHair is projected for .273/.335/.474 for 289 ABs and 13 HRs. If he’s the everyday 1B and he gets 450 ABs, he could put up 20 HRs.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 5, 2012 12:11 AM CST up reply actions
Somebody needs to stop doing so much hopium
and people say I’M delusional?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 4, 2012 11:34 PM CST up reply actions
What a great new word!
Hopium. Hope you don’t mind if I use it. It’s even more appropriate when you think that a cub’s lair is called a den.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
Hopium is the new Cubbie Kool-Aid.
Make it so.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
I'm really sad to see Zambrano go.
He’s one of the 3 or 4 greatest Cubs pitchers of all time, a dynamic athlete, and at times electric to watch on both sides of the ball.
I was hoping they would find a way to get him a fresh start and he’d stay at least one more year. While I approve of what Theo is doing over all, there are fewer and fewer reasons to watch the 2012 Cubs every day.
by Wreckard on Jan 4, 2012 7:23 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
"While I approve of what Theo is doing over all, there are fewer and fewer reasons to watch the 2012 Cubs every day."
Same exact sentiment
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
I was planning on buying the
Minor league package. Is there baseball above AA?
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
So Theo stands pat?
Let Z in the same freaking clubhouse he has disrespected for the last 3 years? Bring back Jim Hendry for the 100th year. This team needs help. Theo was dealt a bad hand. Bad Hands suck. I am actually looking forward to 2012. 6 weeks till spring training, and Theo is not done.
For one more year? Sure, what's it hurt?
I love that Theo has a long-term plan but this move really didn’t do anything to further that plan. Volstad’s not a long-term piece and Z only had one year left.
OK - pitchers
Fergie Jenkins, Greg Maddux, Rick Sutcliffe, Ken Holzman, Lee Smith. That pushes him back to #6 without going back past 1965. He has been a decent to very good pitcher for most of his time in Chicago. Not a sniff of “all time great.”
Among those pitchers, only Fergie had a higher bWAR as a Cub
…and only Fergie and Maddux have a higher career bWAR.
So, no.
I think you are confusing length of career with "greatness"
by ClarkFan on Jan 5, 2012 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Longevity is part of being a great
But in terms of WAR / Year Zambrano is 2nd on your list (not including hitting).
Shoulda just kept him till the trade deadline
… we prolly coulda got more propspects and still saved 3 million
Volstad is worth a shot
A suspended Z brings no prospects
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Not sure
he owns his emotions
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Ozzie can out emotion him
which gives Zambrano a cover to hide under
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
He has deep emotional issues that his profession triggers
I predict he will blow up, no differently than Bradley did on Seattle. There is a pattern here, Hendry collected crazies, and Theo/Hoyer has the job of dumping them—-there are more.
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
What do we do with the extra three million?
Try and take a run at Fielder? I’m sure his demands have come down over the past few weeks, and maybe we could sign him to a compromising contract.
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
Boras still his agent?
10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.
Is a compromising contract...
…anything like a compromising position? Because I’ve been in a few of those in my time.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
does that mean you can have a positional contract
or a contractual position as well?
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
I believe the adult film industry...
…has quite a few contractual positions.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Most importantly....
…. how does this affect the prediction contest?
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
well, assuming this trade actually goes through...
This one will definitely be true (barring ST injury/blowup)
G ….. Carlos Zambrano is on the Miami Marlins Opening Day roster..
This one is well on its way to being true
E ….. Cubs eat more than $15M in 2012 player salary through trades or outright release of players.
And these two could still happen depending on future moves
I ….. Cubs eat more than $20M in 2012 player salary through trades or outright release of players.
M ….. Cubs eat more than $25M in 2012 player salary through trades or outright release of players.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Also
What I’d want in return is primarily salary relief
Well we didn’t really get any relief (not that I’m sure we needed any, given that we aren’t really spending this season), are a worse and less entertaining team in 2012. While Volstad isn’t exactly a failed prospect, he’s not exactly a winning piece. Hopefully there is something they see there they think they can fix.
I think this trade was closer to what Theo talked about when he was hired
When he was saying that he had the go ahead to just dump guys if he didn’t feel they fit his idea of the team (paraphrasing)
This wasn’t a salary relief move, I would imagine with Volstad’s salary we’re probably saving about $1.5 million at most.
This certainly wasn’t a move to make the team better, Volstad has been pretty awful
As Jesus said up higher
Volstad gets another chance to throw at Morgan:
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11615635&topic_id=&c_id=mlb&tcid=vpp_copy_11615635&v=3
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
is listach still with the cubs?
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 7:36 PM CST up reply actions
I
believe so tho IIRC he’ll be changing the nature of his services…
There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011
Adios Big Z
I could understand the pessimism but I for one like this trade.. Even if Volstad doesn’t have a great season at least we got something for Z.
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
Just checked the Marlins' schedule
Damn – I was so hoping they’d open the season at Atlanta…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
He'll see them enough
Or maybe not. Career ERA vs. ATL IS 6.08
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 4, 2012 8:27 PM CST up reply actions
What a great week to start off 2012 in Chicago!
First Angelo gets fired and now Z is shipped out of town….
I thought the Bears should have cleaned house - Lovie too
Lovie isnt completely useless but what if the new GM is not a fan??
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Lovie has won with some really average talent
…and certainly no depth at all. He deserves to stay on through his contract at this point..
As Will Munny said in Unforgiven... "Deserve's got nothin' to do with it"
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
"Well he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my...
…friend". One of my all time favorite movies.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
overflow thread??
Is it needed?? I think Ill have to change my password I think the girl who watches the cat next door is stealing our internet.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
You need to rename your router
“STOP STEALING MY INTERNET”
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Change your
SSID to, iknowyourstealingourinternatcatlady
You can be whatever you want to be, just put your mind to it and work hard! -Dad
Cubs Convention on 1/13
coming and if this is all Theo is doing, he will be getting torched.
If Tom Ricketts, in a prime market in Chicago, claims how poor they are, he never should have bought the club!
Wanna bet?
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 4, 2012 8:02 PM CST up reply actions
gotta remember many of those who want the immediate turn around
with no cares for how bad the organization is from top to bottom and likely the same people who will read the cooking instructions for the microwave since cooking on the stove or over takes too long
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Wait, what?
People who use a microwave demand that the Cubs be perennial contenders?
NBF: microwave or oven?
by mic on Jan 4, 2012 9:13 PM CST up reply actions
Illinois?
don’t let high taxes and a few bad governors color your thinking…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jan 4, 2012 8:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
But....
This rebuild is going to take far longer than some of you believe. I’ve already provided my opinion….that Epstein and company will be on their second contracts before this gets significantly better at the MLB level.
Additionaly, with each one of these “gutting” trades, their margin for error in actually winning by drafting and amatuers over the next few years gets slightly thinner. They are placing an enormous amount of faith in their ability to draft and develop with the uncertainty of being able to spend to acquire….and I’m guessing some might not understand what a difficult task that really is. On top of it, I’m not quite sure that strategy is going to play well in a large market. This is NOT the blueprint that was used in Boston. There were better players on hand and in the system than this organization currently has. They are actually in uncharted territory right now….even for them.
Exactly
This is a Pittsburgh or Kansas City model we are seeing right now. Except we don’t have a McCutheon and Alvarez or a Gordon and Moose.
We are literally starting from scratch with 1 projected average starter and an assortment of bit parts in the system.
No way this turns around unless we spend some money on MLB level players.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
and we will
but most likely not this offseason.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
One thing KC and Pitt dont have
$$$$ for payroll….both teams are in the $35 – $45M / yr band. Let TheO/Jed dump Z, and Sori, I think this team may surprise some people and be marginally respectable. I would settle for a 70 win season as long as it meant the team was exciting and had potential. The team we saw in 2011 was a stretch to win 81 games IF everyone had career years. Looks like the line up may lack serious punch and the pitching will be mediocre, but if there are young guys out there who are coming in 2013 and 2014 the team could get better quickly with some sound FA moves. Its not all gloom and doom. KC / Pitt are finally seeing results, but they didn’t exactly have the resources OUR cubbies do.
Jesus, it's amazing how much some people don't get it
This is a horrible baseball team. There are no “quick fixes” out there that are suddenly going to turn this horrible baseball team into a contender. For people to actually act like Theo is a failure three months after he was hired just shows how truly dysfunctional a portion of this fan base is.
He’s doing it the right way-taking a reasoned, methodical approach to fixing a gigantic clusterf**k of a mess left by previous regimes.
And, as much as some people won’t be able to deal with this, he’s going to be greted like a rock star at the convention.
by bluekoolaide on Jan 4, 2012 9:19 PM CST up reply actions 9 recs
Well said
I, for one, am very happy. My closest white sox fan/friend is jealous of these moves too.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
The white sox fan in our family
actually thinks Theo’s pretty sharp and on task. But he also isn’t a Cub hater.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 4, 2012 10:18 PM CST up reply actions
Most White Sox fans will say the same thing.
by South Side Expat on Jan 4, 2012 10:20 PM CST up reply actions
My buddy Doug
hates the Cubs but mostly the “dumbass Cub fans”
He’d be cool with most here. He is prolly my most knowledgeable sports fan/friend. Good guy.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
some of my closest friends are
Packer fans
Cardinals fans
White Sox fans
but we all have mutual bonds and enjoy the 3 hour hatred during a game
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
I think you're overstating how much of a cluster
this franchise is.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 4, 2012 11:37 PM CST up reply actions
Back to back fifth place finishes with an expensive and declining team with very little talent ready to come in and make a difference.
There’s a reason many of us were screaming for Jim Hendry to go for quite some time. If you don’t want to take an honest look at the state of this franchise, then I don’t blame you. It’s a sad picture.
DUMP GARZA
rec'd, even tho this is already green...well said
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
You should read Al's Part 1 interview with Tom Ricketts
You’ll quickly realize that Tom Ricketts has given Theo Epstein the authority to clear out any contracts. This is not about crying poor. This is about re-shaping the Cubs and trading a short-term asset for a long-term asset.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 4, 2012 9:28 PM CST up reply actions
I guess in theory
We still haven’t gotten any real long term assets yet though. The only thing we got this far is a chance to show Joe Ricketts that Cubs fans will come out to the ballpark no matter how terrible the team is.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
Sure we have
Zambrano was an asset for 2012. Volstad is 2012 – 2014.
Marshall was an asset for 2012. Travis Wood is 2012 – 2016. Dave Sappelt is 2012 – 2017. Ronald Torreyes is still a minor leaguer.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 4, 2012 9:42 PM CST up reply actions
technically
Marshall and Zambrano could still be in 2013 if they are both FA and the Cubs sign them
no I am not saying that is going to happen, dont get me wrong
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Getting the Band back together
Who has Silva’s phone number?
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 4, 2012 9:51 PM CST up reply actions
Well we got to young SP who each have number 3 upside.
A young fourth outfielder who I’ve actually heard some people contest as a starter, along with a pretty nice looking 19 YO 2B, who may well be one of our best prospects and the 2B of the future by the end of 2012. Just because he hasn’t got Jacob Turner or Jesus Montero doesn’t mean he hasn’t got any long term assets.
He gets one from me at home everytime I hear him speak.
What a breathe of fresh air.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Amen.
I still can’t believe we actually have someone like him in charge. What a difference a year makes!
by bluekoolaide on Jan 4, 2012 10:07 PM CST up reply actions
He's so interesting to listen to
Plus he’s someone whose going to spend more time thinking about the Cubs than I do.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 4, 2012 10:20 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
If you can’t afford a MLB payroll you have no business buying a team.
Frank McCourt does this and gets booed out of LA, Ricketts does it and is championed a hero for fielding a AAA team.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
stop reading
NBF’s Guide To Not Understanding Common Sense in Baseball Terms
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Ricketts sure hasn't had a problem paying for one of the most expensive roster in baseball the past couple years.
Cmon man, get your facts straight before you type.
Did he sign any of those players?
The ONE guy that was signed on his watch was given a 1 year deal that was deferred into 3 separate parts.
The reality is that the payroll was 150 when he bought it, went to 134 his 1st year and is well under 100 now.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
3 parts?
who was this?
Pena had half deferred by one year, not two.
Wood was signed last season, and that was not a three part contract to my knowledge either
Reed Johnson
well, you get the point, once again your facts are actually unfactual
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Yeah, you're right. Ricketts sucks, Epstein sucks, Hoyer sucks
Get rid of ‘em all and get somebody in here who will start spending like it’s monopoly money.
Feel Better?
by bluekoolaide on Jan 4, 2012 10:10 PM CST up reply actions
Also allowed that Pena signing instead of going for a lower alternative, brought in Wood and Garza, Marmol was signed to an extension.
If Ricketts wanted to he could have had Hendry make the payroll a lot smaller the past couple years.
I really wish Dave Van Dyck was right.
As of 7:58… the Trib article says (possibly edited by the time many of you see it):
The Cubs will pay about $3 million of the $18 million owed Zambrano
Now that would be nice…….
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
Freakin' Marlins.
Throwin’ money around like it grows on palm trees.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
that would make this a huge deal,
no matter if you like Z or not.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 4, 2012 10:18 PM CST up reply actions
Sadly... it now says "all BUT three million...".
Oh well… we could dream.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
Meh. Whatever
Great post thread, though.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
Everyone except you.
You got excited because Z was gone, and then called for the new guy to throw at someone.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Jan 4, 2012 10:17 PM CST up reply actions
oh, and whoever said
they’d include Szcur to make it happen. That was brain-dead.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Jan 4, 2012 10:17 PM CST up reply actions
I was merely stating he will have more chances to face the Brewers.
It was clearly in a joking manner. Thx for your thoughtful contributions considering you can’t even comprehend comments.
In Theo and Jed I trust.
Nothing for nothing
The Cubs give up a pitcher who was a lost cause. They get a cannon-fodder potential No. 5 starter.
I predict
Volstad will be better than that.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
To predict he'll be better than cannon fodder....That's bold man.
He’ll be better than cannon fodder but not by much.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
I bet will be better than zambrano in 2012
by El Borto on Jan 4, 2012 10:26 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
OT: Convention Attendees
Will be announced on Friday. Assume that Jackson, Vitters, and Szcur will be there since they are part of the Cubs Caravan
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Jan 4, 2012 8:07 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Should have said
Announced on Cubs.com
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Jan 4, 2012 8:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
slightly different circumstances
but how on par is trading Zambrano to Ozzie for a fresh start where he has a baby sitter who he trusts and respects to drafting/trading Josh Hamilton so he can be with his own babysitter (different reasons and different stages in their career obviously)
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
The more I see of TheoJed's moves
The more I can’t believe he will allow Soriano to take the field this season. I mean, Theo’s head will explode the first time Alfie short-legs a ball to the wall.
by Mapmaker on Jan 4, 2012 8:12 PM CST via mobile reply actions
so he should hop on any trade offered for Soriano?
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
While I'd love to see Soriano go...
…the difference between the two of them was that Z had become a clubhouse cancer and had to be removed. For all of Soriano’s shortcomings on the field, you never hear anything but positive things about him as a teammate.
The other difference between them
Is $36 million in remaining salary.
Harry Caray: Marshall is going back to LA to get cocaine for his injured foot.
Steve Stone: Harry, that’s Novocaine.
by Julio Zuleta's Voodoo on Jan 4, 2012 9:36 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
How many #4 and
- Pitchers can one team have??
We are looking at 60-65 Wins here folks.
and a healthier organization top to bottom
in the near future, which will lead to more victories and contending on a consistent basis
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
I have no problem with a 60-65 win season because...
…for the first time in a long time I see the Cubs with an actual plan and a direction. The Cubs won 59 games in 1966 when Durocher took over. I’m sure if the ’net had existed then, the torches and pitchforks would have been out in mass. But then things started to change for the better (and better).
This is a transitional year coming up and, no matter how bad the Cubs are it won’t be anywhere near as painful as last season when I was already thinking about the Blackhawks before the 4th of July!
What is the plan exactly?
Other than to make the payroll as small as possible this year? We still have to wait 5-8 years for the mythical, not yet drafted Thoyer prospects to make an impact.
We do make a nice 2006 Pittsburgh Pirates replica team though. So we do have that going for us!!!
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
you need to stop looking at one rock
and see the mountain. the Cubs are in such a hot mess right now that they have to restock, retool, and get a foundation to build from. the moves of this off season are for long term organizational health which will lead to consistent playoff contention
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 4, 2012 9:31 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
A team that can house a 150 million dollar payroll
Should never have to tear down and spend 3 or 4 years as the Pittsburgh Pirates. A team like Boston or The Yankees can build a farm system while competing at the MLB level.
It doesn’t need to be mutually exclusive in MLB baseball.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Jan 4, 2012 9:35 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
the red sox and yankees weren't mismanaged by jim hendry for the past 10 years
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 9:36 PM CST up reply actions
I still think its a cop out to use that as an excuse
We could have cobbled together a borderline contender and continued to work the ML system.
Now we are going to be resigned to losing 100 games annually until we get around to buying some players. My only hope is that its by 2013 at the latest.
Looks like 2012 is already a lost cause.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
So is that what will make some people happy?
Being a “borderline contender”? Sorry but rather than to continue to plug holes in a leaky boat, I’d just as soon get to work on building a new one.
Having the Cubs squeak into the playoffs and get swept in three games does nothing for me.
patchwork plans don't work
see the 2009-2011 cubs for more information
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 9:42 PM CST up reply actions
exactly
seems aaronb wants the Cubs to be the equivalent of a Tourniquet for a severed arm
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
aaronb just doesn't want to learn from past mistakes.
And then he wants to make up stuff to back up his assertions.
DUMP GARZA
i defended Hendry when I felt he deserved it
but I wont pretend that this organization is not in a much better place now and going forward.
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Bullshit
I want them to act like a major market team and make an honest effort. What other major market team acts like the Kansas City Royals?
Some of yall are ignorant sheep
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Jan 4, 2012 9:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
and most of see the train of thought
and grasp the idea of what the Cubs are doing, something you are not.
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
I grasp what they are doing
I just don’t agree with it. A big market team should make an effort to be competitive.
Why do you feel we need to lose 120 games a year to eventually get better? Will it make you feel better about us winning 70 games in 3 years?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
i dont see us being that bad in 3 years
with this much coming off the books and these moves being made, we will be much better than that in 3 years. i would be willing to bet a $100 donation to Cubs Charities on it with you if you want that the Cubs will be above .500 in 3 years
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
How high of a bar are we setting exactly?
Is 500 really an acceptable goal for a team that should be the richest in the NL?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
seeing as i said ABOVE .500
try reading, personally I am willing to grind through a shitty 2012 season (which is sadly what i see happening) for a healthier 2013 and so on. I did not say that .500 is acceptable, but you are the one penciling them in for 70 wins that same season, so i told you to put your money where you mouth is.
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Do you really need to be the biggest prick on the internet dude?
I’m a fan just the same as you are bro. I don’t need the bitch attitude over every single comment you make to get the point you are making. Ease up and maybe pull the stick out of your backside.
No reason we can’t talk like adults here.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
Ouch
Dude I believe that goes both ways you do realize that aaron right?
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 4, 2012 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
Have I made on single personal attack towards anyone?
All I am doing is questioning the strategy.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
when you reply to somone
and your reply challenges while using incorrect information, what do you expect, a high five? im not attacking you, im attacking your post
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
and i questioned your post
since you were using incorrect details more than once so far
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
well
Some of yall are ignorant sheep is a compliment?
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 4, 2012 10:49 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Not to mention he rehashes the same sorry argument every single time...
Still waiting for that quote claiming Rickett’s is looking to pocket profits.
it can only go up from this year
I think we struggle around 70-80 wins this year, get around to 80-85 next year. Talent starts developing and showing up, we celebrate a WS in 2014.
mwuhahahaha!!! world domination is ours!
18 days til the 2012 Randy Hundley Cubs Fantasy camp!
I think we should fire Theo/Jed
b/c they obviously are doing everything all wrong. I would have thought by now they’d already won a WS.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 4, 2012 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
Not saying it's their fault per se
It could be an edict from above to slash payroll?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
Do you honestly believe Ricketts...
…would go out and get a coveted front office management team and then handcuff them? Really???
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
I have no idea?
I hope he proves me wrong.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
I believe Ricketts said
that the baseball budget would be in the same ballpark for the 2012 season as the 2011 season in the BCB Interview with Ricketts Part 2. I think this team can survive a couple losing season with the money coming off the books.
For years, this franchise was ridiculed
because fans kept coming out for years regardless of how bad the team was. Then fans stopped doing that.
Now it looks as if things are going to be even more bleak, and people are saying, ’Don’t worry, fans will still keep coming out.’
Lewis Carroll couldn’t have come up with this.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 5, 2012 12:05 AM CST up reply actions
Joe Ricketts himself said he wouldn't have invested in this team
Until Tom assured him that fans will show up…..No matter how terrible the team is.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
You act like one bad season
will completely demolished the Cubs fan base. I don’t think the Rickets believe they would have 1million fans coming out every year of their ownership. One bad season will not killed the cubs or their $$.
Why should the Ricketts take advatage of that ticket buying base?
Is it really commendable that they are going to run a 1986 payroll while charging full retail for season tickets?
I am completely on board with the new regime putting some emphasis on the ML system.
My issue is that they have no interest in doing anything for a big league club that is probably the worst in baseball right now.
I’m a fan of The Chicago Cubs. Not a fan of the bottom line wealth of the 6 Ricketts that pull a check off the team.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
Honestly
What could Theo have done this off season to get a team out there that is competitive? There really wasn’t much Cubs could of done. Fielder or Pujols wouldn’t of turn this team around to compete in 2012. Rangers and Angels had the pieces to be able to go out and get somebody big. I think the Rangers and Angels will be rebuilding in 4-7 years and not competitive.
Why won't the Angels or Rangers compete in 4-7 years?
History shows that teams who are willing to spend, can compete long term in MLB baseball.
I’ll take those rosters over what we have going forward 10 out of 10 times. They can win AND build a system at the same time. Just like we can if we choose to.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
I would too but we are trying to get there.
They are trying to win now and they had pieces in play already. We have nothing to build around we thought we could build around Soriano (Bust), and Zambrano (temper), Prior (injury), and etc. We have tried that in the last 10 years and what did we get? A team that almost made to the World Series back in 04. We can’t fix this in an off season. These two organizations had been building and it’s time for us too. Back to the point about Rangers and Angels not completing, they will be in the Cubs situation with over-payed pieces in there way. Pujols, Lee, and company aren’t worth more than 4 years.
is it really slashing payroll
if they are paying the majority of the salary of Zambrano?
also, why spend on the amateur and international drafts if you plan to sign a bunch of high dollar long term free agent contracts just to block all of them? that makes less sense, and it will hurt them more than help them. you do this, and in 3-5 years you are here posting about how come they are not playing “x” kid who is raking, or why did they trade “x” kid while complaining about the contract blocking the talent that you build with
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
In what world are these mythical prospects going to be ready this year or next?
We could literally sign 10 premium free agents to 5 year deals today. And not block 1 single prospect that Thoyer brings in this year.
This whole “bottom out the MLB club to build a ML system” bit is just not rooted in reality.
What other big market team has ever totally slashed the big club and attempted a Kansas City rebuild like this? What other fanbase would just blatantly accept it with open arms?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Jan 5, 2012 12:30 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Where are you getting theses 10 premium free agents?
I don’t see the players that are out there to help this team be competitive now.
its called reality
not mythical.
not only is the build a ML system a reality, but it is happening in front of you, no matter how much you try and deny it and pretend it isnt there.
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Acquiring Chris Volstead
doesn’t build anything.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 5, 2012 8:36 AM CST up reply actions
Why do we have to lose 120 games to build that system?
We could have added a Fielder, Chase Headley, Kuroda , and a Kubel to this team and.
1) Been a solid 85-88 win team in 2012
2) Still built up the system over the 2012 season
3) Still been under the 150 million dollar payroll we had in 2010
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
Your hyperbole is getting out of control...
You’re going to argue we’re a 42-120 team?
Also, FREE AGENCY ISN’T FINISHED YET. There, I made it nice and big so you can keep it down for a little bit.
Your theories were also ripped apart on minor league ball… shouldn’t that tell you something?
Ignorant is buying into the idea that this team can magically get better by just tossing around cash.
Take an honest look at the talent level in this organization.
DUMP GARZA
by shoemile on Jan 4, 2012 9:56 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
this year's team will be lucky to win 71 games
who will we blame then I wonder….
24 days til the 2012 Randy Hundley Cubs Fantasy camp!
i blame Hoyer
we still have not dumped Garza so we are in trouble
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
blame Zell.Trib
new ownership cleaning house is not uncommon
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
How good were the 2006 Cubs?
How did we win the division in 2007?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
They were awful.
So they threw a shit ton of money at the problem, then came crashing down again. The point is to not have that happen anymore. The point is to compete annually.
DUMP GARZA
basically to follow the Atlanta Braves of the 90's
where the farm was kicking out talent left and right, and only a few FA’s were needed to fill a void here and there
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
we spent like drunken sailors
AND we were in one hell of a weak NL Central, put the two together and we lose in the NLDS for a reason. big fish small pond in the NL Central, exposed once in the deep blue sea
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
To be fair,
if the 2012 were in any way shape or form in as good a position as the Cubs I’d be pretty happy.
Gordon
Moustakas
Hosmer
Butler
Are all pretty awesome pieces to build around.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
What exactly is this "honest effort"?
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 4, 2012 9:58 PM CST up reply actions
I think most of us knew 2011-2012 were lost years
after Hendry sold our future years ago.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
but in order to compete annually you have two choices
build proper with some kids and a few vets, or spend like a crazed looney annually. the first is much better for long term success
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
You're right but the people in charge before have
brought us towards the end of a dead end street. Its takes a second to turn the car around. That’s what Theo is doing.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
i think it is a bit above
but a hair below craptastic
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
I drove over to Hohokam this morning
Spring Training season tickets went on sale at 9am AZ time. When the ticket office opened the line consisted of me. Just me.
I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
Last year there was 4 of us
75% decline. bad omen for Spring attendence.
I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
Parking lot was completely empty before and after I left
Had a nice chat with the subcontractor cleaning windows. He’s looking to hire 30 workers to clean-up the ballpark after games if anyone is interested.
I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
you should have bought for one game
then got back in line and waited to be called back up to the window
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Hahh, rock star treatment
always ushered to the front of the line.
I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
it's a ship not a car
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 4, 2012 10:29 PM CST up reply actions
I think NBF has a disciple
Help me out Star Wars nerds (I know you’re out there). That red-faced dude with the double-edged light saber, what was he again? And weren’t there always two?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
DARTH MAUL
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jan 4, 2012 9:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Always a Master and an Apprentice
Darth Sidious (the emperor) and Darth Maul (the red faced guy)
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 4, 2012 9:44 PM CST up reply actions
starting to understand why people cancelled their tickets yet?
"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts
you cannot say the Cubs are backing up the truck....i think they are looking to trade the truck as well
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Oh -
“hashmarks” do not work in the body copy of this blog.
the reply button works
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 4, 2012 8:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Are you sure...
….#they #don’t?
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
The only place they don't work is ...
… if you put them in the first character of a line.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
#Let me try...
#that. Still not having a problem.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
He means followed by a number
#this works
- this doesn’t
wow.
Well, I’ll miss him. I know most people disagree with me, but I’ll still miss him.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
I'll miss him, too.
But I don’t think the team was going to offer him another contract, so this only accelerates his departure by a year.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
i wil miss him
but it is better long term for the Cubs organizational health
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
It's definately better for the Cubs organizational health...
and now cue Wil Nieves at-bat music(I just like the tune), I feel like a celebratory dance around the room. Bye, Carlos!
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"--The Brain
Thanks for the memories
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
If you disagree with me in any way, you are wrong.
As much as I have loved to see Z play
The reality is there’s a very good chance he would have had another meltdown in Chicago. Personally, I’ve been there, seen that and it’s time to move on.
this gave me a lol
MLBFakeRumors MLB Fake Rumors
Carlos Zambrano has been suspended after celebrating trade to #Marlins by body slamming 3B Hanley Ramirez into stack of water coolers.
You can be whatever you want to be, just put your mind to it and work hard! -Dad
Nah Marlins traded a working Gatorade machine to the Cubs
Figured it would have been damaged after five Zambrano starts
Don't laugh
that could happen.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Jan 4, 2012 8:49 PM CST up reply actions
We are -3 on the Carlos Meter
Silva, then Pena, and now Zambrano.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 4, 2012 8:38 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
No, we'll take 2 years off
And then go for another 3-peat. Da Bulls!
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 4, 2012 9:09 PM CST up reply actions
on the wsy to 120 losses
Ever since I went to my 1ST Cub game in 1968, Ihave always had a positive attitude about the Cubs. I have had season tickets since 1991 and every year, I have always thought the Cubs had a chance to be a good team…even thinking they might win their division. Yes, I was deluding myself some years, but I always went into the season thinking they would win. This year, tor the 1ST time, I don’t feel that way. In fact, I see this team bring the 1dt 100+ loss season in decades. I see no hope tor the 2012 season. There is no pitching on this team ((especialy if they trade Garza) and there is absolutely no hitting. Seeing whet the Boston Boyd have done make me glad that I gave up my season tickets. To pay over $2,000 per seat (I was grandfathered into a partial plan) to see this gsrbage team would have been one of the biggest mistakes I could have made.
Wow you're completely backwards.
Sell your tickets and possibly find a new team, or sport.
In Theo and Jed I trust.
OK, but when
we win the World Series, you will be BANNED from here if you pick another team!
BANNED I say – like BlueMike…!
awwww
Just imagine if Sori gets traded how happy he will be.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 4, 2012 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah really
Why would you lose your positive attitude now with Theo in charge over the last two years or the 70’s even?
by LT on Jan 4, 2012 8:54 PM CST up reply actions
All theo has shown me is
That he could take a team, gut it and give us a team that will be lucky to win 40 games. I have seen zero evidence that his and Jed’s moves will improve anything on this team. Let’s get rid of any pitching we can get anyone to throw the ball from the mound. Let’s get rid of anyone who can hit and put nobodies. Nothing he has done has given me any confidence we will be any better
by sharkfan on Jan 4, 2012 9:25 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
i've had to use this so much recently
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 9:27 PM CST up reply actions
I guess you're right
He really doesn’t have much of a track record….
by LT on Jan 4, 2012 9:37 PM CST up reply actions
What kind of evidence could you possibly expect to see
When they haven’t had so much as a single practice yet?
Harry Caray: Marshall is going back to LA to get cocaine for his injured foot.
Steve Stone: Harry, that’s Novocaine.
by Julio Zuleta's Voodoo on Jan 4, 2012 9:43 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
HELLO
THISTEAMSUCKEDALREADY. who gives a fuck if we lose 60 games instead of 70? Theo is trying to build a new young core and rebuild. It’s quite obvious, and I’m not sure how you don’t see this. The guy knows what he’s doing.
we still need to dump Garza
then we will be in a better place
/sarcasm
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
forty games?
has any team ever lost 40 games in the 162 game season?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 4, 2012 10:24 PM CST up reply actions
posting from my tablets is alsoa pain...
I don’t know why but that last post was posted before I got to spellcheck it. I don’t even remember hitting the post button. I guess I should not post using my new tablet. Sorry for the typos
please leave and learn a little more about the situation.
A rebuild is what this team needs, and we’re lucky enough to have Theo doing it.
Not really
But whatever blows your hair back.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 4, 2012 11:42 PM CST up reply actions
You must have missed the memo
If you don’t root for a 50 million dollar payroll and 120 losses in 2012 then you just don’t get it.
The Ricketts clan gets their 5 way cut off the top. Joe Ricketts wouldn’t co sign this thing unless the sheep showed up rain or shine. He held a press conference to tell everyone what the score was.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
I support the general concept Theo is trying to do
but there’s no need to reduce this franchise to Pittsburgh-like levels to accomplish that.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 5, 2012 12:03 AM CST up reply actions
We are on the same page
I am completely on board with developing a top shelf ML system.
I just don’t understand why we need to lose 120 games at the MLB level to show our commitment? The new CBA makes it really hard to overspend slot. So we might as well try to be competitive at the MLB level why we wait for the mythical kids that Thoyer will get around to drafting this summer.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
There are a lot of long-suffering Cubs fans
I guess it’s in our DNA.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 5, 2012 12:07 AM CST up reply actions
And I do think a lot of the rejoicing about Z and others
is more cathartic than anything else.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 5, 2012 12:08 AM CST up reply actions
So the Cubs keep
Z for this year, and they wait for the next blowup in May? June? July? Pick a month. Because with Z and Ramy it is what a 78 win team? Z always is a good teammate on bad baseball teams. Right.
What is the over/under for how many stints Ramy is on the DL this year? 2?
This is the plan. I am on board, like I am sure the majority of us Cub fans are. You will have a long season. If the Cubs lose 90 this year, so be it. I am prepared for that. The dead weight of this team has to go. I trust Theo and Jed to make the proper moves to get this team to challenge for decades, not 2 years.
You guys are all singing from the same hymnal
as if you repeat it often enough, it will come true. “This is the plan.” What is the plan?
Z had to go. I agree with that. But to celebrate this as if it were a great thing is bizarre. The Cubs just got a little worse, and I’m not sure what they got back is going to make them any better at some future date.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 5, 2012 8:39 AM CST up reply actions
I never said this was great.
I actually am disappointed it has come to this. I loved Z. As I posted below, his passion turned into anger. He had to go. It makes for a far more comfortable clubhouse, but yes, when on, Z is a much better pitcher then Volstead.
I don't think this plays into some great plan.
It was done because, as you say, Z had to go.
DUMP GARZA
They don't have to do that, losing does not build up credit that is rewarded by winning later
I don’ think that trading Z is the Trump of Doom – he has really been a mediocre pitcher since 2008. But the team needs to keep playing in the FA market when the right guy is available ( Fielder now, a SP next off-season). With smart moves, this team should not be too awful in 2012 and could be a divisions contender in 2013 without blocking any real prospects or imperiling a rebuild of the minor league system (to the extent the new CBA allows that kind of move).
Enjoy
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/volstad-heads-to-chicago/#.TwUQbZVwGtQ.twitter
"It will happen because our major-league coaching staff is more prepared than their counterparts across the field."
On the corresponding story at Fish Market
There are 7 comments.
Count them. Seven!
This is huge news in Miami.
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
Did someone post more than once?
I just want to know if all of their season ticket holders have spoken or if one had spoken twice.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
SBnation bothered to waste bandwidth on a marlins blog?
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 9:15 PM CST up reply actions
It's pretty interesting to see how other SBNation blogs operate.
Some have thousands of posts (like EDSBS), some are super stats-heavy (like the Mariners’ one), and some look like a cemetery, which is kind of how I imagine the Marlins home state and new stadium looking.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
With an ugly ass tombstone
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
You needed to post the full-motion version of that!
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
That thing needs an epilepsy warning
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
my son would go into seizures with that thing
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
that thing would look sweet if u ate some acid
… but probably a little over the top for baseball lol
I hope Z sets that thing off at least once this season.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
BCB is awesome
Been a Cubs fan my whole life, but didn’t find this website until a few weeks ago. It is great, I am so impressed.
Was in a shuttle to the airport last week, driver noticed my Cubs gear, mentioned something about the team and Theo. I wrote down BCB’s website on some paper and handed it to him when I tipped the guy, told him it’s the best source for all things Cubs. You don’t drive an airport shuttle, do you? Welcome to BCB!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jan 4, 2012 9:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
you sure that wasn't elgato, driving colvin to the airport?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Thanks for spreading the word about BCB.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
world domination!
muwhaha
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 9:48 PM CST up reply actions
mine also
I spend way too much time here.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 4, 2012 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
but there use to be summer MCF
now there is both summer and winter MCF
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 4, 2012 10:53 PM CST up reply actions
well, you can blame the cold for being inside
i cannot, it was awesome here today
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
I can't complain
we have had about 2 inches of snow all winter. Tomorrow’s & Friday’s high is in the 40s.
But winter Madison is normally just a football fan not both
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 4, 2012 11:05 PM CST up reply actions
Welcome checkmate!!
Be sure to read the handbook – i keed i keed
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
always type all in caps
and insert huge pictures with no title on them.
I keed!!!
24 days til the 2012 Randy Hundley Cubs Fantasy camp!
Don't forget a title
or you’ll piss Sue off!! And we cannot have that
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
and always stay on topic
no derailing a thread
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
I saw THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO.
Awesome.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I can't watch a broad with no eyebrows...she has to have eyebrows.
just one of my quirks.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Sexy character
I didn’t get the end really – but I didn’t read the book.
Cannot wait for the Hunger Games movie – the book was excellent. Starting the second one next week.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
my wife read the book
says it all comes together in the 2nd book
18 days til the 2012 Randy Hundley Cubs Fantasy camp!
It's all downhill after the first book.
I didn’t even know what the point of the third book was.
DUMP GARZA
She just...quit...writing...the...story.
THE END
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
he.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 4, 2012 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
oh, whups.
Thought we were still talking about GWTDT.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 4, 2012 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
way to ruin it for people that don't intend to read the book
or see the movie
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 10:30 PM CST up reply actions
all seemed lost when the animator suffered a fatal heart attack!!
18 days til the 2012 Randy Hundley Cubs Fantasy camp!
well, i feel like a horse's ass
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 10:34 PM CST up reply actions
i've been recording rugrats
good stuff
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 10:35 PM CST up reply actions
i read something that made a compelling case about the show just being a figment of angelica's imagination
i don’t watch the show in the same light now
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 10:38 PM CST up reply actions
Be prepared to be let down.
Here’s the Hunger Games quality:
Book 1: A
Book 2: B
Book 3 first 200 pages: C
Book 3 ending: F
It’s almost as if she forgot the story has to conclude.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
DAMN YOU!!
man – now Im kinda sad. HA
Ill still finish – its such an easy read
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
My students eat it up.
Good stuff to talk about politics and government and choice and whatnot. I think the movie will be very good.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Interesting choice
What do you teach?? Undergrads??
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
PhD student in special education, learning disabilities & adolescent literacy.
But I teach middle school, and have taught at the high school and college level. Probably going to be a professor soon enough.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
you a PhD student? no way
I’m writing my dissertation in between posts
18 days til the 2012 Randy Hundley Cubs Fantasy camp!
organization mgmt, specialization in IT mgmt
writing about ethics in the IT department within the casino industry
18 days til the 2012 Randy Hundley Cubs Fantasy camp!
I should be dissertation this year.
Teaching full-time doesn’t leave a lot of time during the weekdays.
The fantasy camp in your signature, is that THE fantasy camp the Cubs hold? Or is there more than one? I know somebody that’s gone regularly, maybe you know him. Bob Page?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
it is the Randy Hundley one in Mesa
30th anniversary. The Cubs just recently started holding that one in Wrigley last year.
I also found there there is a crosstown fantasy camp in Florida next week. Sox & Cubs explayers. Weird. I was going to ask Lee Smith about it as he is schedule for both that one and the Hundley one.
18 days til the 2012 Randy Hundley Cubs Fantasy camp!
My husband is going too.
Of course his knee picked now to start giving him trouble. He hasn’t been able to prepare as well as he hoped. I think he’s a little scared.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
Ouch!!!!!
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
The Joke was good. The irony of who said it is better.
by South Side Expat on Jan 4, 2012 10:32 PM CST up reply actions
Do you have an alarm that goes off when...
…when a negative comment is made about the White Sox or their fans?
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Not the best joke to make to a guy that spends his life working with people with disabilities.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
my son has disabilities
but that doesnt mean a joke cannot be made. i do understand your point though
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
As a parent of a kid with disabilities then, I'd expect you to be a bit more cognizant and sensitive
to use appropriate language. As far as bullying goes, that’s probably the #1 concern in a classroom when working with these populations of students.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
We are in Claremont CA
My wife is going to be Doctor Hammer one day – Professor style
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
that's how I felt about Under the Dome from Stephen King
500 pages of really great story, then one of the dumbest endings ever. Alien children and flies? Really Mr. King? WTF?
18 days til the 2012 Randy Hundley Cubs Fantasy camp!
His new one, the 11/22/63 book,
is fantastic so far. It’s even bigger than Under the Dome, and so far, a much more intimate story.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
indeed,
i’m about 3/4 of the way through it right now. Great reading so far
18 days til the 2012 Randy Hundley Cubs Fantasy camp!
I just read 11/22/63.
It’s terrific. Recommended to everyone.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
A Short History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson
is the greatest book….OF ALL TIME
"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." Carl Sagan
That's how I felt about "It."
Started out great. Ending stupid.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
Miami has a great new stadium..
A dynamic manager (Though not always in good ways), and some legitimate star power. Ramirez, Reyes, and, say what you will, Zambrano is a name. Yet, I still don’t think baseball makes ripples in Miami this year. I’ll have to see it to believe it.
And, thanks for the memories Big Z. I’ll have to change my login at work, now. I have a rule. Only current Cubs and legendary Cubs of the past can be used.
It seems like a Philadelphia Eagles situation.
Lots of star power and problems with cohesion.
That, and the NL East has some damn awesome teams right now, with the Braves youth, Philly’s rotation, and Nationals. HAHA Mets.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
A "great" new stadium?
See the image above and then say that.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Don't let that take away from the rest of the stadium.
I’m sure it’s pretty impressive outside of the crazy tombstone thing.
Wow - that's funny
The password I always use has a random Cub from a beast Cubs moment in it – plus my favorite ballplayer’s growing up number in it.
No guesses please – and its not BOSCO!!
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
I am still a little surprised that when Ozzie
admitted to talking to Zambrano when Ozzie was traded to Miami that the Cubs didnt use that as leverage to trade him without eating any money with a threat of filing for tampering.
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
meh..
Z was still the 3rd-best pitcher on the team, with a higher ceiling than that. He may very well be an all-star under Guillen, which raises a bunch of mostly-theoretical questions, I guess.
So...
Jedstein thinks that Volstad is more likely to be worth 15M than Zambrano is likely to be worth 18M this season. I see nothing in the numbers to suggest that to be true. I really, really would like to know how they arrived at that conclusion.
I’d also like to stop stockpiling mediocre players for the 2012 roster.
by kanderber on Jan 4, 2012 9:36 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I don't agree with this at all.
Zambrano’s going to get paid by the Chicago Cubs, one way or another. His stats are clearly in decline, rapidly, whereas Volstad is quite young and pretty impressive when he’s on. We’re not going to win anything in 2012, just like we didn’t really have a chance in 2011, and planning for the future is much more important.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
How...
are his stats clearly rapidly declining? He was jerked around by a senile manager in 2010 and didn’t play all year last year. 2011 was the first bad season of his career. He’s only 30 years old, so it’s WAY too early to say he’s declining…especially without anything to actually support that statement.
by kanderber on Jan 4, 2012 9:48 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
WAR has decreased steadily for 3 seasons, he hasn’t thrown 200 iP since 2007, hits and homers are up, Ks are down, and salary’s up.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jan 4, 2012 9:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
facts dont mean anything in a BCB debate
you know that
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
I'm unclear as to what kind of statistics are not counting ones?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
$15.5
$15M sent for Z plus Volstads $500k, dont sell them short
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Don't we have Volstad for like 4 years?
So which is more likely, Zambrano is worth 18 mil this year or Volstad is worth like 3.75 per year?
by tomas21 on Jan 4, 2012 10:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I doubt this info would have gotten this far if he hadn't.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
He's playing for Ozzie
he’ll waive the NTC.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 4, 2012 10:05 PM CST up reply actions
Review of Volstad
Didn’t see this posted anywhere, but there are hundreds of posts, so if this is a duplicate, I apologize.
It is from the Marlins blog before the trade and gives a decent breakdown of the 2011 incarnation of Voltron the Underachieving.
by Kyle From Chicago on Jan 4, 2012 9:36 PM CST reply actions
I think this move solidifies our understanding of what Theo & Jed are trying to do here.
They’re definitely in win-later mode, willing to trade just about anybody if we can sell high (re: Marshall) for prospects or projects, and willing to take a few risks (re: Volstad) and eat salary if it means we’ll win the lottery with a couple guys. Zambrano’s his share of problems over the years, but he was and is still a worthwhile pitcher when he’s on. I wonder if there’s a list somewhere that says “Non-Tradeables” and the only guy on that list is Castro.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Can't talk long
Wife had the Worfette on Dec 31 and we are getting ready to power nap.
But… Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Get out, you fat slug.
"It's all in the game, yo"
by Worf on Jan 4, 2012 9:40 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Get some sleep
And when you wake up remind yourself that it wasn’t just a wonderful dream. He really IS gone!
Congrats Worf.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
I have no complaints, but I can just see
another case where an ex cub wins a WS before the cubs do. Ugh.
wait,
I guess that was a complaint. My bad.
On the negative side, Spring Training is going to seem very strange...
…without Z’s annual pledge to act like a mature adult and control his emotions.
It's like New Years people @ gym
This will be our first spring training & I will be very happy not to see to see Z
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 4, 2012 10:38 PM CST up reply actions
Peace, dude.
Things didn’t end the way they were supposed to, but you’ve been a Cub for awhile, and I’ve always liked his fire, even if it was idiotic at times. Best of luck.
THEO!
i was going from july to the end
he had a reaaaallly bad july
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 9:56 PM CST up reply actions
Was really freaked out
by the two Theo avatars talking to each other.
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
by AussieCub on Jan 4, 2012 10:05 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I was saving a new Z jersey for an autograph
It just became a shop rag.
I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
if you truly are going to do that
give it to a kid who will love having a jersey and cannot afford one otherwise.
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Hmm, size 48 XL
I'm wet nurse to a last-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
lol
speaking of tents – I had two broken poles and went to REI to get them replaced (lifetime warranty) turns out REI doesn’t replace poles. If you broke your poles they simply give you a BRAND NEW TENT. So I upgraded for $50.
REI is the best
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
oh and camping daily
next weekend in La Jolla. Me, the wife and the dog. Cant wait
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
there are kids that would wear it big even i am sure
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Good riddance Big Z
I also love how this event has really brought all of the nutters out in defense of Z. Should make for a fun season.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 4, 2012 9:55 PM CST reply actions
Yeah how dare anyone like Carlos Zambrano
The longest tenured Cub, statistically one of the 3 best pitchers in franchise history, and one of the best-hitting pitchers of the modern era. Only “nutters” find entertainment in people who are really good at baseball.
It's not about liking him
it’s about thinking it’s dumb to get rid of this dead weight who will always be a ticking time bomb. Guy is on his what, 4th, 5th chance now? Who else gets that much slack playing professional ball?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 4, 2012 10:47 PM CST up reply actions
Who else gets that much slack playing professional ball?
Anyone who’s good at it. Have you not been watching professional sports for the last 10 years?
Z’s biggest sin was declining.
Wow are you delusional
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 4, 2012 11:56 PM CST up reply actions
Three best?
I’ll quibble a bit about that, but he’s certainly top 10.
Depends on whether you include 19th Century pitchers or not.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
nutters.
nice.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 4, 2012 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
Nutter Butters are nice and tasty.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
oh, well.
If we’re talkin’ COOKIES…
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 4, 2012 10:51 PM CST up reply actions
Folks, any of you complaining the Cubs in 2012....
….please SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!! This is a rebuild, sorry this team can’t be good when you want it to be, but a rebuild takes time.
You want to dwell in mediocrity year in year out? Then go and find the next team Jim Hendry is allowed to financially screw and follow them for your baseball pleasure. I choose to be patient, and with this new regime I believe our patience will be rewarded.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
by troutfishin on Jan 4, 2012 9:58 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
You clearly aren't a season ticket holder
I get Theo’s plan, and am completely on board.
But unless they at least throw us a bone for 2012 it’s going to be a really long year, and really unlikely to be worth the money.
Besides, Theo’s the one who claimed that rebuilding and competing aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive.
This is basically where I am at
I just don’t understand how a franchise that can afford a 150+ million dollar payroll can just punt a whole season.
Sure it may pan out ok in 5 years?
What about the 5 years between now and whenever they decide to attempt to compete?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
There is one free agent out there that's worth a damn...his name is Prince Fielder.
Do you really want to spend 150 million just to get him during a rebuild?
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Yup - unless they plan for this "rebuild" to last 4 or 5 years
In that case, wake me in 2015. I have other things to do between now and then.
by ClarkFan on Jan 5, 2012 7:27 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
--
I just don’t understand how a franchise that can afford a 150+ million dollar payroll can just punt a whole season.
Because – they can afford it like you say?? Seems like investing in smart people who are trying to build something that produces a lot over time??
Just my guess
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
by Hammer on Jan 4, 2012 10:42 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
as Theo said before
you pay for future production, not past production. the Cubs are currently moving in that direction
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Yep. Theo just signed Jadzia Jean-Luc Worfington....
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Do you know how long the waiting list is for season ticket holders?
For every one season ticket holder that would give up their tickets because they can’t survive a rebuild, there would be ten people to take there place.
The bone was Epstein and Co., they really don’t need to do much else this year.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
For the Cubs $$ sake
I hope when they do contend/win if falls right at the same time their TV contracts are up. I am sure people on the ST list would be happy to fork over lets say $100 per year to stay on it.
More banked money. I hope the idea is to be bringing in money that is only second best to the Yanks.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
What difference does that make?
I’m renewing. My point is that the team isn’t going to be very entertaining, which is what we’re paying for.
So don't pay for it
Shit, or get off the pot.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 4, 2012 11:56 PM CST up reply actions
Competing and rebuilding AREN'T mutually exclusive.
But when you have a farm system virtually barren of any potential contributors above A+ ball and a dumpster fire of a major league roster…. then yes, in that case they are mutually exclusive.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
How does this move fit those criteria
Volstad isn’t restocking that farm system, he’s a failed prospect with only 2 years of team control remaining.
Like I said, I get the strategy, and am completely on board for it. But there’s a lot of things you can do that make us better for 2012 without hurting our long-term plans. Signing high-risk free agents on 1 year deals, for example, or aging veterans on 1-2 year deals. Those things only cost you money.
My understanding is that Volstad has three years of club control including the '12 season.
And I’d say only two full big league seasons is a bit early to declare that he’s a “failed prospect”. And it’s not like he’s been RoLo bad… he’s basically a value wash with Z.
So the Cubs acquired a guy they can evaluate for one to three seasons. If he doesn’t get his act together, you just don’t tender him a contract… no harm no foul.
This deal surely doesn’t “fix” any of the Cub problems… but I’m not sure they could have done anything with Z that would.
The absolute worst case scenario with this deal is that Volstad flops… and the Cubs still saved $2.5M. What Z does in Miami is irrelevant since there’s no chance he would be a Cub past 2012… and we don’t know if it was even feasible for him to return to the clubhouse.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
Volstad had an xFIP of 3.64 and a SIERA of 3.84 last year.
Considering Zambrano had an xFIP of 4.34 and a SIERA of 4.46, I’ll take the guy whose peripherals actually show promise. He’s 25, a former top 50 prospect in baseball, and has decent K% and very good BB% and had a 53% GB% last year.
He’s got the potential to be a #3/4 starter for 3 years, which in a trade for Zambrano is a steal, IMO.
right, as much as I had always loved Z, I'd rather see if Volstad pans out than hope Carlos yet again can get his act together
I was always a Zambrano fan, even knowing he had a behavior problem….just couldn’t help myself cheering for the guy.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
I think the vast majority of us
cheered for Z. We also shook our heads with that “not again” feeling after every meltdown.
I see absolutely no downside to this deal. There was essentially no way Z returns in ‘13. Assuming he didn’t pitch well enough to vest the option… even if they offered a contract, they could only cut his salary by 20%. That would still leave you paying Z north of $14M… which is a poor investment.
Honestly, it’s also why I was a little surprised Ozzie brought Z on this season…. now the Marlins basically have no chance of keeping him (if they want him) next year. I thought Ozzie would let this year play out and then try to sign Z as a reclamation project for 2013.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
I think TheJedi have been playing chess with the Marlins and it just ended in a draw.
which was probably the best we could hope for. They knew the relationship Z had with Ozzie and I wouldn’t doubt the interview yesterday was intentional when he said we were keeping Z. Basically he told Florida to make their move now or forget it. I bet Marlins didn’t want Volstad in the mix.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
They are throwing you a bone
the bone is that they’re trying to win a world series the right way, not the Hendry/MacPhail/Lynch/Himes/Frey way. The bone is that its not business as usual. Its not signing signing mediocre veterans and a shiny toy to make everyone happy, its building the organization the right way. Its not hoping to get into the playoffs and maybe compete for the wild card, only to regress back to a sub .500 team. That’s your bone, and if thats not good enough for you, no one is forcing you to buy season tickets.
Couldn't agree more...
…and as I stated when Theo took over, it will take him 2 yrs to clean up Hendry’s mess and this is just another step in doing that.
If this is built the right way, there is going to be some short term pain. Considering what Theo inherited, there is not way around that and simply no short cuts.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Z ya, Carlos
It’s been…interesting. Now he’s happy, Ozzie is happy, and I am happy! C’mon, Get Happy!
I like Volstad in return…plenty of opportunity for improvement, and the skillset is there to do just that :)
"Hey Hey, Holy mackerel, no doubt about it,!"
if you read the Fangraph
it does appear we may have received the better pitcher. Dumb question: who’s our pitching coach? not moustache right?
18 days til the 2012 Randy Hundley Cubs Fantasy camp!
Umm...guy from Wisconsin...can't remember his name now that you mention it.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
There ya go.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
opening in the Cubs IT department
http://baseballjobs.teamworkonline.com/teamwork/r.cfm?i=40054
18 days til the 2012 Randy Hundley Cubs Fantasy camp!
oh, MAN.
I’m not a programmer. Bah.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 4, 2012 10:37 PM CST up reply actions
me neither, all the other stuff I do but not the programming
18 days til the 2012 Randy Hundley Cubs Fantasy camp!
I'm Director off IT at the hard Rock Hotel in Vegas
I have a badass DBA working for me, wonder if I can get the job and lure him to Chicago to do all the programming for me…
18 days til the 2012 Randy Hundley Cubs Fantasy camp!
Excuse meeeeeeee
I beleeeve you have my hopcatch.
…I’ll set left field on fire…
As utterly fasnicating as Theo is to me
I won’t want to work for him.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 4, 2012 10:43 PM CST up reply actions
Why Not?
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
I don't want to work 100 hour weeks
He talked today in the interview about some day the people you pull all nighters with you are happy to share the winning with.
Plus it’s my better half that works with software so it would actually be him I don’t want working 100 hour weeks.
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 4, 2012 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
doesn't say what the pay is. I am interested to find out
18 days til the 2012 Randy Hundley Cubs Fantasy camp!
I feel married to the company he works for already
I can only imagine what it would be like working for Theo. I doubt there is room for any error
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Jan 4, 2012 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
wasn't that what Brian Cashman originally did??
Pretty sure
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
No rush people. We have until 2015
Isnt it ironic they are the Miami Marlins when this movie was made?
Too bad we are both in the NL
See, they should have taken my advice and moved the Marlins to the AL instead of the Astros.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
It's still 3 years away
Anything could happen
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 4, 2012 10:49 PM CST up reply actions
Im placing my bets now.
I wonder what the Vegas odds are if they go out that far.
5000:1
Like that guy who bet on the cardinals to win the WS.
Doubtful..
I put my name on the hover board waiting list like 20 years ago. Still nothing.
It's not ironic
And they were the Gators
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
Goodbye Z
I enjoyed watching you destroy the Brewers at miller park for 3 straight seasons. Now i guess i’ll just watch Wells Dempster Wood Volstad Garza Castro strike out the side.
we're converting Castro
to a pitcher? I suppose it’s shorter to throw home from the mound than from short to first..
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 4, 2012 10:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Because the catcher
is the only person equipped to deal with his errant throws.
Its more of a frustrated post at lack of pitching.
I usually drive 6+ hours to see a few cubs games, but honestly unless the prices at MP are like $20 for dugout i wont go. Not worth the traffic and DUMBASS brewer fans.
plus Castro HAS to face forward to throw it home
so he wont be caught star gazing with his back to the play
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
think he could
throw ala “Rookie of the year?”
I mean the softball pitch, not the broken arm 115+ pitch.
Good riddance
TheoJed had me fooled. I thought they were really going to keep him.
Marlins have the payroll risk of having to pay Z $19 million in 2013 if Z is among the top Cy Young vote getters. Laughable, really, but that probably would make it harder to get anything for him.
Moreso, Theo and Jed were hoping they could fool the Marlins.
I think they accepted today that it wasn’t happening.
DUMP GARZA
Z?
A cy young vote getter?
I’d get more traction on glare ice.
He will not even come close. Too injury prone (and sucky)
i hope everyone votes him for CY Young
just to give the Marlins his 2013 contract to deal with
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
+1 for use of the phrase "glare ice."
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
OT Torre resigned from MLB in hopes to be a part owner of LA Dodgers
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Hershiser and Garvey are in the group as is
Magic Johnson and Mark Cuban
18 days til the 2012 Randy Hundley Cubs Fantasy camp!
if nothing else, they have name recognition
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Have you seen Tebow's GF?
I’d get on one knee and thank God for her every day, too.
with those uh... fun bags
i call BS
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 11:28 PM CST up reply actions
You say Kaplan's post?
THAT IS NOT HER!! That is a famous British model. Kaplan is a weirdo.
"It will happen because our major-league coaching staff is more prepared than their counterparts across the field."
by louslovechild on Jan 4, 2012 11:47 PM CST up reply actions
Good ridence
Can’t wait how long it takes the “zuela” mafia to destroy the marlins
by Les Lancaster on Jan 4, 2012 11:35 PM CST via Android app reply actions
He is one pure bad ass LaHair
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
ISWYDT
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
I don't get it either.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Well, it's too bad it came to this
Z had to go, alas. After what happened last year in Atlanta, he couldn’t return. I’ll always remember his no-no in Milwaukee and how good he could be when he was on.
Million-dollar talent with a 10-cent head.
Volstead? I don’t really care about him. He’s OK, I guess, but probably no better than that.
I’d assume this makes Garza less likely to be traded, although in the quest to turn Chicago into Pittsburgh West, maybe that’s assuming too much.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 4, 2012 11:47 PM CST reply actions
have to get worse
before we can get better. unfortunately.
by RIP Slim on Jan 4, 2012 11:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, not really,
even according to Theo’s own words, but maybe he’s just bulljiving.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 4, 2012 11:54 PM CST up reply actions
to be fair
12 hours ago theo said he’d be open to Z returning. i wouldn’t take anything theo says at face value, especially when the idea of competing while rebuilding was blown to bits by the CBA
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 12:01 AM CST up reply actions
Actually, the CBA
would run counter to that, wouldn’t it, since you couldn’t pay exorbitantly over slot for kids?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 5, 2012 12:06 AM CST up reply actions
not being able to go overslot gives guys like sczcur and josh bell less reason to sign, which makes it harder to get elite talent in a farm system quickly
josh did a pretty good right up on the CBA here
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 12:30 AM CST up reply actions
Cubs are allocating huge money into international signings prior to July 2
Signing Soler and possibly Cepedes could be huge along with additional picks acquired with Ramirez and Pena leaving. The focus this year is upgrading the farm system and also getting a high pick next yr. The heavy free agent signings i.e. Cain will begin next year
Oh, thank GOD.
I will NOT miss him. Not even a no-hitter could make up for the crap he’s pulled.
I hope he gives Miami huge headaches. (hate them.)
Who is Chris Volstad
Using 2010/2011 data and the skilled pitching stats of K/9, BB/9 and GB/FB here are Chris Volstad’s 10 closest comparables (similarity score-wise) given the above parameters.
Rank Name (K/9, BB/9, GB/FB)
X. Chris Volstad (5.79, 2.88, 1.62)
1 Matt Harrison (6, 2.94, 1.44)
2 Kevin Correia (5.77, 3.1, 1.41)
3 Luke Hochevar (6.07, 2.96, 1.51)
4 Jason Hammel (6.05, 2.99, 1.36)
5 Tim Stauffer (6.04, 2.56, 1.89)
6 Ivan Nova (5.45, 3.17, 1.82)
7 Mike Leake (6.06, 2.48, 1.52)
8 Brian Duensing (6.06, 2.57, 1.34)
9 Randy Wells (6.17, 3.0, 1.28)
10 Jair Jurrjens (5.9, 2.88, 1.06)
I like this trade because it gives us another unknown to watch in 2012
In 5-10 years, we could be thanking Theo and Co for making theses deals for TWood and Volstad. This is baseball and nothing is a for sure thing. We have someone in the farm system that was suppose to take over the 3B job in 2012 or 2013 and where is he? Baseball is game of unknowns, we will never know where the next stud will come from, we will never know who cheated and didn’t cheat in the Steroid Era, we don’t know who would be the first injured Cub or first injured star in the MLB , we don’t know if Jackson is going to be a for sure star, we don’t know if Big Z is going to have a blowup in Miami orif he going to have a great season, and the only thing we do know is that 2012 will be interesting season not because of the stars, but because of the unknowns.
I think it is a Horrible deal the Cubs will deeply regret
I know the majority here including Al , pretty much hate Z and would have traded him for
a used rake, but I expect you will really enjoy watching Z be an excellent starter for the Marlins. I understand Z had serious anger management issues but I would rather have a guy who loses it because he is angry about losing than the many Cubs in the last 8 or so years of Z’s tenure that don’t seem to bothered by it.
Good luck Z and thanks for the mostly great memories.
The bottom is loaded with nice people, Albert. Only cream and bastards rise
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 5, 2012 1:46 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Z burned his bridges here. There was no choice.
If he has success in Miami, don’t think for a second he could have had that success here. He had 9 lives and used about 12. He had to go, and there was no way it was ever going to be a good trade for the Cubs.
"They sell every ticket to every game, win or lose!" - Tom Ricketts
I loved Z's passion.
He was a very good pitcher for the Cubs, WAS. I can’t stand the fact he ruined a wonderful Cub career. He could of gone down as one of the best if not the best Cub pitcher of all time. He destroyed that. He burned the last bridge. His passion became anger. He had to leave.
You know what I won't regret?
Sloppy performances, bananas and Starbucks mentions, and his annual blow up. He’s the Marlins problem now and maybe he’ll do better there. In fact, I’ll say he will do better there because that environment will be one that coddles Z, which given the fact that the guy just can’t grow up, will be good for him.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 7:39 AM CST up reply actions
It wouldn't surprise me if he pitched well for the Marlins.
But frankly, he’s too volatile for the Cubs. The clubhouse is done with him, and it’s time for a culture change. I don’t think this whole passion thing is an either/or proposition. Get guys who care about winning and don’t blow up every year.
DUMP GARZA
I'd quibble with the word "deeply."
They may mildly regret it if Volstad tanks while Z makes around 30 starts, doesn’t completely lose it behaviorally at some point and is worth around 2-3 WAR. But, again, Carlos Zambrano wasn’t going to be around for much longer anyway.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Yeah, there's no way in hell they'll regret it deeply.
Not when they don’t expect to compete and he only has one year left on his deal.
DUMP GARZA
I am sure the current players and FAs they may contact
would love hear Theo/Jed say well we really can’t compete at all this year ( and maybe for the next one or two after that) so you really don’t have to play that hard. Perhaps it is best Z is gone because not winning REALLY pissed him off.
The bottom is loaded with nice people, Albert. Only cream and bastards rise
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 5, 2012 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
Oh lord.
It would be nice if just once, you could look at a situation logically instead of emotionally
I get so damn tired of people like you making excuses for a grown ass man’s ridiculous hissy fits because “he cared”
There are often times at my job where something doesn’t go the way I like. I don’t get to scream at my co-workers, or destroy the office furniture. And if I did, I sure wouldn’t be sticking around because I showed how much I “care”
The guy had ample opportunities to stay on the Cubs, he blew each and every one. The club won’t regret this move at all.
The thing you need to realize, is this team is NOT going to compete this year. 2012 has clearly been dedicated to cleaning up the ridiculous mess that was the Jim Hendry regime. Zambrano also wasn’t going to be a Cub in 2013. This trade hurts the franchise very little. It MIGHT affect the win-loss record this year, but it probably won’t even do that to a very large degree.
Zambrano is not an 18 game winner anymore. He hasn’t been in quite some time.
by Nunyabidness on Jan 5, 2012 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
I'll go along with that
I suppose I could have responded by saying, “Nunya knows everything. Just ask him.” . . . but I’m not sure that enough people would get it.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
well, if they don't get it, they can google it themselves
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jan 5, 2012 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Winning!
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 10:42 PM CST up reply actions
Just adding this comment
… to say that I agree 100% with Nunya, for a fairly rare occurrence.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
were you ever disappointed by a player you were a big fan of?
reading all these comments about how crazy he’s been reminds me that this is for the better…but it still is a big letdown that he couldn’t get it together enough to help this team out. If all those crazy incidents never happened and he was a regular guy, he could have been very advantageous to the Cubs the next few years. He could have been a Cubs legend. in my emotional opinion.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
OK I guess I will just skip watching the 2012 season
as it is over before it started. I don’t deny the Theo/ Jed moves clearly indicate this, but I was silly enough to believe you could A. rebuild and compete. B. not dump players to save chump change when you are charging a fortune for tickets. Z was indeed a head case but everyone acts like he is totally washed up and had been worthless for years. Short memories indeed.
The bottom is loaded with nice people, Albert. Only cream and bastards rise
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 5, 2012 7:57 PM CST up reply actions
No one's acting like that.
People are saying it’s time to move on. And it is.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
And it appears players in the clubhouse weren't so happy to have him around in the first place.
So they’re probably happy he’s gone.
DUMP GARZA
I will be honest . Theo's quotes on that surprised me
Despite some of public comments in the past. That is serious and might indeed justify
a trade, but I found the phrasing a little cryptic so hard to read.
The bottom is loaded with nice people, Albert. Only cream and bastards rise
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 5, 2012 8:02 PM CST up reply actions
The best thing about this move is it removes one more scapegoat for Cubs culture of losing.
I notice even on this thread that some are disproportionately blaming Zambrano the Cubs most-recent era of losing on Zambrano. Zambrano, during that time he has been a very solid pitcher, his WAR dropping below 2 for the first time in nearly a decade in 2011. Blaming Zambrano for the losing is like blaming Bartman for the loss of the NLCS, and that is my point. Blaming, scapegoating, etc is indicative of a culture of losing, which we are so used to we just psychologically can’t help ourselves. The fans, almost as a defense mechanism, put a scapegoat in the back pocket each year so that when we inevitably start losing, we have some convenient target of blame. Stay tuned for Alfonso Soriano, who may also be dumped for the same reason, but also had a WAR above 3 for 3 of his 4 healthy seasons with the Cubs.
We all have to learn how to be and think like winners, and all of this piling on indicates how far the Cubs as a culture need to go.
by DisCUBbobulated on Jan 5, 2012 12:37 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Is that Lou Reed?
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
no, it's Charlie Sheen, aka Rick Vaughn, but I can see how you can confuse the two
Vaughn was wild and would walk the side
Lou would just take a walk on the wild side
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
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