GeorgeOfman: Three AL teams interested in Soriano. Orioles need a DH and Buck Shoewalter had...

GeorgeOfman:
Three AL teams interested in Soriano. Orioles need a DH and Buck Shoewalter had Soriano in Texas

George Ofman tweet

5 months ago Ivy Walls 63 comments 0 recs |

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If Jed/Theo can make this happen I will start to believe they can walk on water.

by ubercubsfan on Jan 4, 2012 8:31 PM CST reply actions

Of course...

they can make it happen. Pay nearly all Fonzie’s salary and he’s all theirs. That’s not walk on water, that’s shear desperation. Getting another team to pay a notable amount, say 50-60% is walk on water.

Doing something commensurate with the Z-move (only 17%, assuming option doesn’t vest) is only a marginal cost cutter.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jan 5, 2012 7:15 AM CST up reply actions

He has value, the problem is that it's not the $18M he's getting paid.

He still hits 20-some homers and 80-some RBI, and he’s still above-average offensively, but I don’t know what position he could possibly play anymore besides DH.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jan 4, 2012 8:37 PM CST reply actions

I'm not sure how attractive he is offensively.

He strikes out a ton, and couldn’t even get on base at a .300 rate. His defense and baserunning are also non existent. Really the only good thing he can do reasonably decent is hit HR. But I guess if there’s one place a guy like that could work it would be in the seven hole as a DH for an AL team. Hopefully somebody thinks that’s worth about four or five million.

by Dcr18 on Jan 4, 2012 10:12 PM CST up reply actions

It looks like Theo and Jed do have the authority to eat some contracts.

After tonight, I believe it. And if eating some of Soriano’s contract makes the Cubs better (defensively) and younger, I’m betting we’ll see it.

This has to happen. He’s not going to be better this year than he was last year, and ballplayers usually hit a precipitous decline in their 30’s.

by MN exile on Jan 4, 2012 8:49 PM CST reply actions

...

Just wee-un.

by jesus christos on Jan 4, 2012 8:52 PM CST reply actions 1 recs

If only this could happen...

…before midnight, this would be one of the banner days in recent Cubs history—-a sign of things turning around. Addition by subtraction. Some scoff at the notion, but I believe it has merit. – TL

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Jan 4, 2012 8:58 PM CST reply actions

All the best Cubs outfielders are traded to Baltimore

Sosa, Pie, Patterson.

Let the Tradition continue.

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum

by RiskyBusiness on Jan 4, 2012 9:04 PM CST reply actions

Just the very best.

--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

@JamesDaBear

by jameslcrockett on Jan 4, 2012 9:54 PM CST up reply actions

Let's throw in Jake Fox on a technicality.

"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach

by daver on Jan 5, 2012 10:34 AM CST up reply actions

Technical Balk!

Step Two: Develop an organizational plan

by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 2:33 PM CST up reply actions

IMHO if Cubs are able to dump Soriano

the locker room will be increase wins by factor of 5 even with less talent.

A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight

by Ivy Walls on Jan 4, 2012 9:13 PM CST reply actions

Was Soriano bad in the clubhouse?

I hadn’t heard that. Or is that comment just a result of you generally demonizing him?

by pb5689 on Jan 4, 2012 9:44 PM CST up reply actions

No, he's not

Everything that’s been reported is that he’s a great clubhouse presence.

by Josh Timmers on Jan 4, 2012 9:49 PM CST up reply actions

Criticize him all you want.

But he’s known for being a good teammate. People may not like him as a baseball player, but by all accounts he seems to be a nice human being.

by Dcr18 on Jan 4, 2012 10:14 PM CST up reply actions

I'll agree with others...

that he has a good personality, some leadership traits, especially with the latino players and all that, but it’s a cancer eating at the entire franchise to have a player paid so much yet provide so little for so long, past, present and future.

For three years now, the front office have used his salary (among a few others) as reasoning why they don’t have the budget to field an optimal team. That can’t be good for his teammates’ morale to know the necessary improvements aren’t coming and the team still has impetus to play Soriano who openly refuses to make adjustments to compensate for his declining skills and increasing fragility.

--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

@JamesDaBear

by jameslcrockett on Jan 5, 2012 4:53 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs

The failure to adjust is the most galling thing

Soriano still seems to assume he is 25. I think he could be a much more productive player than he is, but…..

by ClarkFan on Jan 5, 2012 11:01 AM CST up reply actions

Edited this to provide the link to the specific tweet

… instead of just Ofman’s general Twitter feed.

Also, in future if you are posting a tweet like this, use the “link” tab on the fanshot posting window — links better.

Regarding Soriano, we can only hope someone will take him, even if the Cubs have to eat 2/3 of the contract.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 4, 2012 9:19 PM CST reply actions

Paying Soriano $12M a season to NOT play here is awful.

But paying him the full amount TO play here is worse.

"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."

by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST

by fsuapollo on Jan 4, 2012 10:02 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs

He provided under $6m in WAR last year

So 2/3 of his contract sounds about right. That WAR will likely continue to go down, while his salary does not.

by madcow256 on Jan 4, 2012 10:09 PM CST up reply actions

Well at least the salary isn't going up....

so we got that goin for us.

by Dcr18 on Jan 4, 2012 10:15 PM CST up reply actions

which is nice.

The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney

by SouthWabashSoul on Jan 4, 2012 10:42 PM CST up reply actions

shhhhhh

Funny that you mention that...

I’ve always felt that anything that 5-6 million for Soriano would make hm very desirable to an AL team.

I will say as an aside in comment to an above post, I’ve never understood the notion of permission to eat a contract. Gee, I have permission to spend less for a crummy player than what the owner expected to this season. Do GMs really need permission for this sort of thing?

by Damen Jackson on Jan 5, 2012 11:04 AM CST up reply actions

Well

… since the owner is the one who gives the GM the budget, I’d say that yes, the GM would have to have approval to simply spend money on nothing.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 5, 2012 11:11 AM CST up reply actions

Exactly.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 4, 2012 10:26 PM CST up reply actions

this is how expensive it is to clean house, any kind of company

Ridding an organization of unproductive liabilities costs money, (though in this case it is money already spent), having someone pay $4-5-6M so one could put an incrementally more productive person in place is actually an add.

The question will be if dumping Soriano (and getting some equal WAR in a younger player) then bringing up RJax at $400K+ is a big plus.

A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight

by Ivy Walls on Jan 5, 2012 8:32 AM CST up reply actions

green'd

especially the last two years

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Jan 4, 2012 10:36 PM CST up reply actions

Exactly

"I've got a head full of whiskey and some bad ideas" - Scott Holt

by Ihatethecards on Jan 5, 2012 7:59 AM CST up reply actions

And therein lies our problem.

"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach

by daver on Jan 5, 2012 10:35 AM CST up reply actions

So......

If he does go, and Byrd goes, and Soto goes, what does this lineup look like.
Stewart, LeHair, BJax (I am guessing), DDJ, Barney, Castro, LF??, Wellington? I love the house getting cleaned, but who is left?

"It will happen because our major-league coaching staff is more prepared than their counterparts across the field."

by louslovechild on Jan 4, 2012 10:30 PM CST reply actions

I doubt both Soriano and Byrd would be traded unless they were acquiring another outfielder, like Cespedes.

And I doubt Soto gets traded. His value is lower now. If he bounces back he may be shopped at the deadline, but I don’t think he’ll be traded in the offseason.

by Dcr18 on Jan 4, 2012 10:41 PM CST up reply actions

Cespedes would be a good move

But I also could see Lake making a dark horse splash in ST and beating out Barney for the starting 2B spot and then being a Blouser like platoon at SS and 2B.

Cubs are going to be a different team, more aggressive, better fielding (at least try) and they are going to build from the mound out.

A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight

by Ivy Walls on Jan 5, 2012 8:35 AM CST up reply actions

i think Lake is overrated

i don’t think hes near ready.

by MDavis on Jan 5, 2012 8:40 AM CST up reply actions

I wonder again if Lake could wind up as compensation for Theo.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 5, 2012 8:42 AM CST up reply actions

or as a secondary piece in a Rizzo deal?

by MDavis on Jan 5, 2012 9:25 AM CST up reply actions

Maybe.

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by Al Yellon on Jan 5, 2012 9:55 AM CST up reply actions

I second that.

Some people didn’t learn with Colvin. Players who strike out a lot and don’t walk very rarely succeed. Lake can go to Boston for Theo as far as I’m concerned. I have no confidence that Lake will amount to anything.

I’m not sure how he is compared to Blauser who actually walked quite a bit.

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Jan 5, 2012 12:25 PM CST up reply actions

I actually like Lake, especially if he can play a solid 2B.

But he needs at least a full year at AA/AAA

by Dcr18 on Jan 5, 2012 7:17 PM CST up reply actions

Lake is more than a year away.

He’s incredibly raw still.

by bdlugz on Jan 5, 2012 10:24 PM CST up reply actions

unless he's forced into action due to the Castro allegations.

still not ready, but sometimes that doesnt matter.

by MDavis on Jan 6, 2012 7:55 AM CST up reply actions

are we sure they're talking Alfonso and NOT Rafael?

Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 4, 2012 10:53 PM CST reply actions

I wonder if this

is why we have not signed any free agents of significant salary, despite the money coming off the books. Maybe Ricketts and Theo decided that rather than have another 130 mil payroll, they would have a 90 mil payroll and eat 40 mil worth of bad contracts. Then next year they would have essentially a clean slate, a better minor league system, and a lot of money to throw around.

It’s not a bad idea. The only thing a little odd is that they keep going after starting pitching, and starting pitching is the one area the next free agent class is strong. We still don’t have any hitting and the prospects next off-season don’t look too promising.

by tomas21 on Jan 5, 2012 7:29 AM CST reply actions

You can never have too much starting pitching

And if you do have a surplus, you can always trade them for missing pieces (once that time comes of course).

"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Jan 5, 2012 9:51 AM CST up reply actions

I agree with your conclusion.

They are in cleaning house mode. As for starting pitching, in addition to never having enough, they don’t really have much. Z is gone, Wells is a question mark, Dempster will be gone. Yes, the 2013 class is good but they they need more than that.

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Jan 5, 2012 12:27 PM CST up reply actions

I think this season the focus is on depth, while next will be the big ace.

right now we go Garza, Demps, Wood, and some combo of Wells/Volstad/Shark/McNutt/ Cash/Maholm if hes signed. which to me is a lot better then RoLo/Doug Davis/Ramon Ortiz. so they are getting some depth and are better prepared for the inevitable injury. next year they can look at the ace.

by MDavis on Jan 5, 2012 1:30 PM CST up reply actions

Byrd in left, Jackson in center, DeJesus in right

And suddenly the Cubs would have one of their best outfields in years.

by subtle on Jan 5, 2012 7:47 AM CST reply actions

Defensive outfields...

still cant hit for anything, but nothings getting dropped….

So i you can give you can take it.

by epsilon on Jan 5, 2012 8:33 AM CST up reply actions

...

one of their best outfields in years.

Removing Soriano has that effect on an outfield.

by CubFan90 on Jan 5, 2012 10:07 AM CST up reply actions

Hoping for a Zambrano-like deal

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jan 5, 2012 7:52 AM CST reply actions

So who will be a more valuable player over the next three years?

Soriano or Sappelt?

And by valuable, I mean on-the-field production, not bang for the buck.

by cubzfan on Jan 5, 2012 8:24 AM CST reply actions

@Ken_Rosenthal
Ken Rosenthal
#Cubs had couple of inquiries on Soriano, but no match. Plenty of other RH bats on FA market: Vlad, Ludwick, Magglio, Cody Ross, etc. #MLB

by JOVE23 on Jan 5, 2012 2:52 PM CST reply actions

I'd pull Ross's name off that list.

Since he’s not really a similar player. If you’re looking for a DH, you’re not dialing up Cody Ross. That doesn’t mean he has no value… just a different role.

"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."

by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST

by fsuapollo on Jan 5, 2012 3:13 PM CST up reply actions