Carlos Zambrano: Thanks For The Memories, But It Was Time For You To Go
Despite what I've written here many times about Carlos Zambrano and my feeling that the Cubs should have gotten rid of him, I really do wish he could have been a Cub for his entire career, and that I could write, about eight years from now, that he'd be retiring as the greatest pitcher in Cubs history.
That's what Big Z's promise always was, tantalizingly so, as he'd be dominant for stretches (as he was after he returned from his 2010 exile to the bullpen and stay on the restricted list. Or the excitement he brought to a Miller Park full of Cubs fans (myself included) when he threw his no-hitter in Milwaukee against the Astros in 2008.
But too many times, I had to write about yet another Zambrano cataclysm, subsequent apology and promise never to do it again (even at one point citing his own kids as a reason he wouldn't). That would inevitably be followed by yet another incident that resulted in Cubs fans having to learn what the restricted list and the disqualified list are -- lists that are very rarely used for major league players. And so instead of remembering his pitching first and foremost, one of the primary images we are left with to remember him by is the one shown in the photo above -- Z yelling at an umpire in anger, veins bulging in his neck.
It's sad that a man with this much talent and clear passion for baseball and winning could not harness that into his on-field performance instead of the sideshows. I have no doubt that when Z told Theo Epstein in their lunch meeting last fall that he wanted to retire as a Cub, that he meant it.
But the reason Big Z was traded to the Marlins (pending, of course, physicals) for Chris Volstad, a young pitcher with a mediocre record but (we hope) upside, with the Cubs eating most of the $18 million owed, is summed up perfectly by David Kaplan at CSNChicago.com:
Several players have confirmed to me that Zambrano would have to change dramatically to be welcomed back on the team because of the number of incidents that he has had during his Cubs career, many of which alienated his teammates. As one Cubs veteran told me recently, "if this was a one time thing we would welcome him back and do all we could to make it work. However, this is the fifth or sixth time he has had an incident and at some point you have to cut ties and move on."
That's really it in the proverbial nutshell. Zambrano had multiple last chances and blew all of them. And with new management, Z no longer had the backing of Jim Hendry, who was responsible for signing him out of Venezuela when he was farm director in 1997, and who was the only big league GM he ever knew; Hendry was fired a week after Z's meltdown in Atlanta. New management has clearly wanted to make a break from the past in many ways, and this trade seemed inevitable even with Theo's statement that Z could work his way back to the team.
"Fifth or sixth time"? Let us count the ways.
The multiple incidents seem to have gotten worse as time went on.
Here's the game thread from June 1, 2007, the game when Z and Michael Barrett fought in the dugout and clubhouse. Check out some of the comments in that thread after the fighting was revealed.
In the recap to that game, I called Z's antics "indefensible":
Lou said in his postgame news conference that both players were "sent home", and that the club would "deal with it" on Saturday, and further, that there had been more fighting between the two after they had been sent to the clubhouse.
Well, that's not enough. I know much of the brass is in Arizona getting ready for next week's draft, but Jim Hendry's not leaving for Mesa until Monday.
Jim -- if you're reading this, it's time to make a bold move, time to shake things up, time to tell every single player and coach on this ballclub that "business as usual" (and five losses in a row is NOT good business, is it?) will not be tolerated.
Please disregard the fact that I suggested the Cubs should trade Z for Aaron Heilman and Mike Pelfrey, although Pelfrey might have been a useful addition. The next day, I repeated my call to trade Zambrano:
More info: the comments made by Carlos Zambrano on the Score today (regarding some "family problems" he had had over the last couple of weeks) confirm some information I had heard a while back, but did not want to post here because it was uncorroborated. And frankly, I am sorry that Z has had this sort of trouble (supposedly, something regarding his brother in Venezuela, with whom he is very close) -- but you simply cannot bring this sort of thing to the ballpark, or indeed, extrapolating this, NO ONE should bring these sorts of troubles to their workplace, if it is going to affect their work. Both Zambrano and Barrett were fined for yesterday's outburst, but not suspended -- frankly, the team can't afford to suspend them. But I do think, despite this from the above-linked article:Zambrano and Barrett have expiring contracts, and both emphasized their loyalty to the organization. When asked if he wants to remain a Cub, Zambrano said, "Of course." Barrett added: "I love this organization from top to bottom."
... that Jim Hendry must, must, MUST begin to investigate trading both of them, and sooner rather than later.
Hendry did part of that, at least; Barrett was sent to the Padres just a couple of weeks later. Z remained. He was great the rest of 2007, and of course, threw the no-hitter in 2008 -- only to get hit hard in the start after the no-hitter, and showing up his manager:
Carlos Zambrano, coming off his no-hitter, started throwing a "no-outer", letting the first four batters reach base and then giving up a grand slam to Adam Kennedy. In so doing, Kennedy doubled his HR total to date this season in over 300 at-bats. It was wind-aided, but it didn't matter. Z was just as bad in the second inning, allowing two more hits and eventually three more runs (one of which scored after Sean Marshall relieved him), and Lou was, according to his remarks at the postgame news conference, irritated with Z for leaving the mound before he came to get him; Lou told him to go back there, and I think that's the least you can do to show some respect to your manager.
On May 27, 2009 -- that's when the argument shown in the photo at the top of this post took place -- Z was ejected after arguing a close call at the plate (replays showed Z was probably wrong) and I wrote this in the game recap:
But really, Z -- it's time to grow up. You will be 28 years old on Monday. Your ranting and raving today is probably going to cost you a start -- replays clearly showed contact between you and plate umpire Mark Carlson, although it also appeared that Carlson deliberately advanced toward Z, almost as if he wanted to make contact himself so as to get another suspension to his credit -- and then, your histrionics in throwing the ball almost to the LF wall and your glove toward the dugout has to worry your manager. After throwing 114 pitches, you heave the ball 300 feet? Better have your shoulder looked at, too.
Did he grow up after that? No, it got worse the following year, when Z and Derrek Lee had words in the dugout at the Cell after Zambrano apparently thought D-Lee didn't make enough effort going after a hard shot down the 1B line:
I was thinking all the way home about exactly how to approach Carlos Zambrano's tantrum -- and that's what it was, stomping around the dugout like a four-year-old who had his baseball taken away -- apparently because he didn't feel Derrek Lee either tried hard enough to stop Juan Pierre's ground ball double down the line leading off the game, or didn't argue that it was foul (it looked fair to me, and I was sitting directly down the RF line in the outfield; just saw the replay and that also confirmed it was a fair ball).
Z tossed a Gatorade cooler around during the incident; Lou Piniella took him out of the game after just one inning and sent him home; as he left the Cell, there was an occurrence tweeted by Carrie Muskat:
#Cubs Carlos Zambrano has reportedly left US Cellular but not without shouting obscenities at Chicago TV camera crews
Zambrano was subsequently suspended by the team and got sent to anger management counseling followed by a trip to the restricted list. That inspired me to write this post about "passion and fire" in baseball:
Though the Cubs have looked, many times this year, like a team that can't hit, can't pitch and can't field, I have no doubt that they care. Throwing a tantrum in the dugout and screaming and yelling at one of the most respected players in the game doesn't indicate "fire", it indicates that you have psychological problems that need to be addressed, and better addressed, perhaps, in another zip code.
And finally, there was Z's walkout on the team and "retirement" after getting hit hard and throwing at Chipper Jones in Atlanta last August. In my recap of that game, I wound up recapping all the posts I've linked above:
When he's had his past meltdowns, I've said his behavior was "indefensible" and the Cubs should trade him immediately (June 2007), that his antics were "childish" and he needed to "grow up" (May 2009) and that he "had to go" after an "epic meltdown" (June 2010).
Now, it's just sad. Sad that a pitcher with the talent that Big Z has can't harness that and focus on the job he has to do, sad that he'd run out on his team, sad that his obvious passion for winning has resulted in him taking actions detrimental to both himself and his teammates.
Sadness was the overwhelming emotion at the time for me, which brings me back to how I began this post. It is truly sad that Carlos Zambrano couldn't have been one of the most beloved Cubs of all time, among fans, writers, broadcasters, management and his teammates. There's no question that he was, and is, what broadcasters call a "competitor" -- he competed, and hard, and for lack of a better word, with passion. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to control his emotions, too many times.
And so he moves on, and he and Marlins manager Ozzie Guillen are close friends -- in fact, there was some controversy when Z and Ozzie had a pre-planned dinner out on the day he was ejected at the Cell in 2010. Maybe Ozzie can keep under control what no one associated with the Cubs could.
I wish Carlos Zambrano well. Since the Cubs' last pennant in 1945, only four pitchers -- Fergie Jenkins (347), Rick Reuschel (343), Greg Maddux (298) and Bob Rush (292) have started more games in a Cubs uniform than Z (282). Instead of finishing his career as a conquering hero in Chicago, perhaps leading the Cubs to that elusive World Series title, he'll be pitching for one year, not more (since his contract likely expires after 2012 unless he satisfies conditions for vesting his 2013 option that he's unlikely to meet) in the garish new multicolored cap and jersey of the Marlins.
It's just sad. Good luck, Z, except when you're facing the Cubs.
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And TheoTed's last words to Z were
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQwjojvRNI4
Just win the next game...!
I won't miss the Zambrano sideshow
But good luck to him nonetheless.
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
Didn't get to chime in yesterday on this. Like the move!
Was always intrigued by Volstad every time we faced him, mainly because he’s so tall. Still time for him to realize his potential. Wish we didn;t have to pick up $15 of Z’s tab, but I guess that’s the reality.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
So right now, Cubs have 3 or 4 starters for 2013
Garza, Wood, Volstad, and Cashner (if he returns to the rotation). That’s progress.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I'd like to not count Wells... he's regressed. I don't want him part of our rotation.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I also think it's a bit premature to say he's regressed
He clearly came back early from injury last year and he improved throughout the season. He still wasn’t coming down to his career average, but he was on his way.
I do wonder what losing Maddux may mean for Wells, though. I seem to remember on more than one occasion Wells speaking with Maddux on what to change when he’s on the mound.
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by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 8:01 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He shouldn't realistically be viewed as anything more than 4/5 starter.
And he has regressed every year. Hopefully, the Cubs either:
1. Trade Garza to acquire two more potential starters, and sign one of the very good pitchers in the 2013 FA market.
2. Keep Garza, and still sign one of the very good pitchers in the 2013 FA market.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Regressed every year?
His xFIP in 2009 was 4.18, in 2010 it was 3.94, and in the second half of 2011 it was right in the low 4’s.
Most of his peripherals have been pretty stable as well. His poor results in 2010 were largely luck based (elevated BABIP) and once he was actually healthy last year he pitched really well.
by Wreckard on Jan 5, 2012 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Thank you for posting the statistics I didn't have time to find
I knew this evidence was out there and it’s good to see it in the open. Wells should have a better year this season, barring injury.
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by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
He was rushed back from his injury
The second half of the year, he was pretty much the same pitcher he’s always been. At that level he’s certainly better than Volstad, and probably Wood as well.
Plus, I think he's a FA after 2012
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Wells is not FA eligible until 2015.
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Yep, you're right. Arb in 2012.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
My prediction
is Wells is the compensation for Theo. Either to SD or Boston.
Doubt it.
It’s been pretty much established that it won’t be a major league player.
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At this point
I think all previous statements have to be thrown out. It’s been 2 months without resolution, I’m guessing anything could happen.
Maybe.
But I cannot imagine it being a major league player.
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When the Cubs
… sent Hector Trinidad to the Twins in 1994 in exchange for signing Andy MacPhail, Trinidad was considered one of the Cubs’ better pitching prospects.
He was 20 years old and had just completed a pretty solid season at Daytona.
He never pitched in the major leagues (or higher than Double-A).
So the Cubs could give up someone perceived to have “real value” now, but who might turn out to be nothing of consequence.
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Dempster's contract expires after 2012
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Great images flashed before me when I read "Wood"
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 5, 2012 8:58 AM CST up reply actions
we can hope to bring back Zambrano as a FA next off season
/sarcasm
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Hopefully
he passes the physical, but what about the mental?
If it was easy it wouldn't be the Cubs.
by Cubbinstrongsince86 on Jan 5, 2012 7:33 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
No doubt a reference
to both a physical and mental exam…
There are no facts, only interpretations.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lets Go Theo!!! 10/13/2011
Let's not lose sight of...
how great of a Cub Carlos Zambrano was. His career winning % is .607 – better than Fergie (.559) and better than Maddux (.543). A .607 winnig percentage translates to 98 wins a year over a 162 game stretch. Carlos won a lot of baseball games for the Cubs. It’s a shame that a lot of (incredibly stupid and short-sighted) fans will never remember that and instead choose to focus on the handful of incidents.
by kanderber on Jan 5, 2012 7:41 AM CST via mobile reply actions 5 recs
I'll miss Z
Not his antics.
It’s a bittersweet move.
by Arbusto on Jan 5, 2012 7:43 AM CST up reply actions 7 recs
Winning percentage for starting pitchers means less now than ever.
… due to the small number of complete games thrown in modern baseball.
Carlos Zambrano had nine CG in 282 starts.
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Winning % certainly means something.
The fact is, Carlos’s winning percentage is better than two legendary Cubs pitchers. And it’s better by a wide margin.
But go ahead and try to discredit it again, and spend time looking at the bad for some pointless reason.
by kanderber on Jan 5, 2012 8:01 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
What good is his winning percentage moving forward?
Or more importantly, what good is having that winning percentage when you have to risk a pitcher like that being suspended for multiple starts each year. I mean, awesome, he’s won games. That’s super cool and all, until he winds up on the restricted list.
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by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 8:03 AM CST up reply actions
It's not about looking forward...
it’s about looking back. I thought that was pretty clear.
by kanderber on Jan 5, 2012 8:43 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Why does winning % mean something for a pitcher who completed 3% of his starts?
Jenkins completed 44% of his Cub starts.
Maddux completed 16% of his Cub starts.
One is in the Hall of Fame, the other headed there.
Now please explain why “winning percentage” makes Zambrano better than those two pitchers, please.
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by Al Yellon on Jan 5, 2012 8:07 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Zambrano also hasn't won more than 11 games in a season ...
since 2008 and more than 14 since 2007. I know wins are a somewhat meaningless stat, but if we’re talking about winning percentage …
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Exactly.
Cherry picking one stat (win %) and saying that therefore Z was “better” than Jenkins or Maddux, doesn’t work for me.
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Ugh
Refing comprehension isn’t working for people on BCB this morning, I see.
Nowhere did I say he was “better.” What a stupid thing to infer. Since you’re so hellbent on writing a long narrative documenting Z’s “failures” I just posted something reminding people of how GOOD he was. The point of a baseball game is to win it, right? Well, Z won more often than those other two. You can demonize him all you’d like, just try not to lose sight of the fact (yes, fact) that he was very, very successful as a Chicago Cub.
by kanderber on Jan 5, 2012 8:46 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I hear ya
Z did a lot of great things as Cub as well as being a complete ass at times. No reason to forget the good stuff
I wish he would have pitched in relief in Game 7
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 5, 2012 9:06 AM CST up reply actions
"Demonize"?
Hmm. Speaking of “reading comprehension”, I wonder how many times you missed that I wrote that it was “sad” that this all happened this way, that I had hoped Z would become the greatest pitcher in team history, etc.
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I guess spelling isn't working all that well either
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by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 9:11 AM CST up reply actions
Seriously guy?
I’m typing this from my cell phone from a hospital surgery recovery room, so pardon me if I make a typo you douche bag.
by kanderber on Jan 5, 2012 9:56 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions 2 recs
KNOCK OFF THE NAMECALLING
Hope you’re doing well after surgery.
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Now that's a reaction Big Z could relate to!!
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
by Hammer on Jan 5, 2012 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Wow.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Seriously guy?
You’re basically calling other people stupid, but we’re supposed to give you a pass?
Alright
by Nunyabidness on Jan 5, 2012 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
ND sucked this year.
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by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
They were still better than the record you said they would have
but I didn’t think Rees would be that bad at times. I’m looking forward to the QBs Kelly scouted.
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by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
They were, though that's because I overestimated some of their opponents
That schedule was a cake walk, outside of four games. And Notre Dame was 1-3 in those four games.
How they managed to beat down Michigan State I’ll never know
by Nunyabidness on Jan 5, 2012 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
They didn't turn the ball over a dozen times
What happened with Nebraska? I’m sure the rest of the B10 is happy considering their season.
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by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
Huh, hiring buddies as assistants
sounds familiar
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by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
LOLWUT?
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by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
You're so silly
I’m glad you’re taking the time from whatever recovery room you’re at to post on here.
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by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 6:10 PM CST up reply actions
You have a problem...
with where I post?
And Christ, I responded to your post from 6 hours ago just now and you already replied? Step away from BCB for a few minutes, pal.
Never change bro
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by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 8:55 PM CST up reply actions
Winning percentage means
Zambrano had better teammates than Jenkins and Maddux did, at least most of the time.
Or better luck...
Who knows how many games he left trailing that his team tied the game or took the lead? Who knows how many games Maddux pitched into the 8th and lost 1-0?
There are pitchers who give up 6 runs and get a win, and pitchers who give up 1 run and take the loss.
I know that’s what you meant, Josh, and this isn’t directed at you, simply pointing out it’s more than even “better teammates.”
Stats like individual pitching wins
Are almost meaningless these days. So too is batting average.
Zambrano may have won a lot, but I’ll remember him more for his off-field antics.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 5, 2012 9:30 PM CST up reply actions
you mean acts of visible passion and fire?
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 9:32 PM CST up reply actions
His greatness
as a Cub was outweighed by his temper tantrums, fights with teammates and his disruption on the bench. The Cubs gave his ample opportunity for him to turn things around.
"I don't believe in curses." -- Theo Epstein
This.
Jenkins, Maddux, and Reuschel never had any such strange, sad, bizarre outbursts.
I’m a bit too young to recall Rush (I like still being able to say I’m “too young” in any context – it’s been a while!) though I can’t imagine anyone in that era doing Zambrano-like things and having much of a career.
There’s a point in any relationship, be it business or personal, where you either accept that things will never get better and resign yourself to long-term misery, or you accept that things will never get better, and you take steps to end it and move on. Theo and Jed made the right move here. Hendry, obviously, never really had it in him to do that.
Rick Reuschel
is perhaps the most underrated pitcher of all time.
He had a better career ERA+ than Nolan Ryan. He wasn’t a strikeout pitcher, but he did record over 2000 strikeouts in his career.
If he and Jim Palmer were traded for each other and Reuschel had Baltimore’s defense behind him and Palmer had the Cubs defense, we’d be taking about Reuschel as a hall of famer and about how underrated Jim Palmer was.
If Reuschel hadn't been injured
… he could have come close to 300 wins. He’s a borderline Hall of Famer even with the numbers he did have. He’s got a couple of Hall of Famers in his top 10 comps.
He was also a good hitter and baserunner and an outstanding bunter.
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The pride of Camp Point, Ill.
Rick didn’t look like much, but he could pitch. It was particularly fun when the Cubs had him and his brother Paul on staff at the same time.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 5, 2012 5:19 PM CST up reply actions
He never got any Hall consideration
Getting a grand total of two votes in the one year he was on the ballot. I’m OK with him not in the Hall of Fame, but he’s better than several pitchers who are in there. But most voters just looked at him and thought how bad he looked in jeans. (semi-joke.)
Today, people would realize what a good pitcher he was. Back in the 1970s, all they could look at was his W-L record and that he didn’t strike out a ton of batters. But he was one of the best right-handed control pitchers around.
And he was used up by 2008....
Worked a lot of hard innings from age 22 to 26 and missed his first time in 2008. Hasn’t really been the same since.
hey
we agree.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
look at the numbers.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, I'm comparing...
one great Cubs pitcher to two others. Why is that so hard for you to fathom?
Some of you people need to just look at the freaking numbers. Carlos Zambrano was a great pitcher for the Cubs. I’m not saying that he was better than Maddux and/or Fergie, because he wasn’t. But for people to get so up in arms about a conversation involving all three seems really silly.
Good pitcher, not great.
5 postseasons starts, no wins. 1.48 Whip in the postseason. No 20 win season, high win season of 18, has walked 4.1 batters per 9. Great pitcher, far from it.
Z was a good pitcher, who could of been great. He blew it.
Grockcubs answered well enough
Why is that difficult for you to fathom?
But to add: Fergie and Maddog both exhibited control in their pitching – and I’m not talking about emotional control, which obviously both of them did well – they pitched with control where Z while he had great stuff at times, was very wild.
Just win the next game...!
Any plans for a column recounting some of Z's greatest pitched games, including the no-hitter?
I was hoping the concept of “equal time” would come into play here but I’m guessing not. Seems like it’s more fun to rehash all his blowups instead.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Because the blowups are the likely reason he's being traded.
Maybe I’ll do the “greatest games” thing later.
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by Al Yellon on Jan 5, 2012 7:52 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe? IMHO you should definitely do this, for the sake of presenting a balanced point of view
rather than the one-sided, negative view of Z you are portraying with this post
Other than the good stretch at the end of 2010 ...
when the Cubs were hopelessly out of the race, when was Zambrano’s last “greatest game”? The no-hitter?
I guess his 2010 start against Lincecum in San Francisco was very good, but the simple fact is that there have been far more blowups in the past three seasons than there were highlights.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
This site is for me expressing my opinions.
I don’t have to present a “balanced point of view”.
I might, but it’s my choice alone. If you want to write one yourself, you are welcome to.
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by Al Yellon on Jan 5, 2012 8:21 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, I (and apparently several other people on this site) believe you should do something like that
Z had a lot of very excellent performances in his 11 year tenure with the Cubs, it wasn’t all bad.
In fact, the good far outweight the bad. But get your kicks on negatively, whatever floats your boat!
I respectfully disagree.
I think if the good really outweighed the bad he’d still be on the team.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
I agree with that.
However, I also agree with those who think I should make a “positive” post.
So I will. Soon.
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Al
You aren’t a reporter or a news anchor, you don’t need to be balanced if you don’t want to. I would say you are more of a columnist, who is here to offer your thoughts and opinions, and generate conversation. I don’t think you should let people bully you into writing anything you dot want to write.
by tomas21 on Jan 5, 2012 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Thank you.
However, in doing a retrospective of Z’s Cubs career, it would be remiss of me to not remember the good stuff. His no-hitter, for example, is one of my personal favorite baseball memories of all time.
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You did mention and link the no-hitter above.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
I don't think you have to worry about that, tomas...
I may give him a lot of shit sometimes, but the next time I see Al getting bullied into doing something will be the first time.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
How can you have watched the last 3 years and have a balanced point of view?
The one-sided, negative view of Z that is cited in this post is the player that he has become. It’s also the player that got traded. Which if I’m not mistaken is what this post is about.
I enjoyed watching Z in his early days as much as anyone. He’s been an embarrassment to the organization and the sport of baseball in general for the last 3 years. I don’t understand the need to eulogize a clubhouse cancer that everyone agreed needed to be moved.
by 9isEnough on Jan 5, 2012 9:17 AM CST up reply actions 8 recs
I didn't know how to react to this trade till I read this,
……the player that he has become. It’s also the player that got traded.
I think Z will tear it up in Florida, something he could not have done if he stayed here. This trade will end up being good for us and good for Z.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 5, 2012 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
I agree, Coolio
To me it’s a wash. Z’s vital stats going forward will match what Volstad has posted so far and may very well continue to put up. The only difference is the scenery for both, which might be what each pitcher needs to be more successful.
Incidentally how worried should I be about Volstad’s tendencies to give up the home run?
maybe someone right now on the Marlins blog is saying the same thing
about Volstad….that he’ll be awesome in Chicago :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 5, 2012 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
The SBN Marlins blog FishStripes
… has two posts about this deal. Combined, they have (at the time of this comment) 24 comments.
Our two posts have over 1250 comments.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
So are comments considered content?
by South Side Expat on Jan 5, 2012 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
If you're only here to troll
… I am going to ask you to leave.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
It's been my experience that someone who is considered a troll in one place
is considered a troll in more than one place
Well, your experience would not apply to me in the case
of SBN sites. Well, maybe on Baseball Nation, cause I call Al out on things when he writes about the White Sox there, too.
by South Side Expat on Jan 5, 2012 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
It's also my experience that trolls tend to claim they aren't trolls
by Nunyabidness on Jan 5, 2012 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Well, it's been my experience on this board
that you make fun of Al more than I ever have, so theres that.
by South Side Expat on Jan 5, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
I also never read or comment on his Baseball Nation articles
which you’ve already said you go out of your way to do.
I'm just gonna end this, because I've already become more invested
in this than I ever want to be when it comes to a conversation with you, but …you’re a troll. Plain and simple.
The end
You don't seem to grasp the difference between...
disagreeing and making fun of. One is acceptable, the other makes you immature.
Oh, I grasp the difference.
And I guess that just makes me immature. I’m okay with this.
by South Side Expat on Jan 5, 2012 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
Is there absolutely any reason to keep this guy around any longer?
He’s stated his case. Show him the door.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I wasn't going to respond here, but I will respond to you, bdlugz.
Yes.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Awwwww, poor Al.
The funny thing is there are so many more people here who “troll” you much worse than I ever do. Look at all the people who rag on you for your opinion on tweets, debunking, etc. So I’ve made a few comments here in the past few days that make a little fun of you. Guess what? You are the top dog here, and it’s no different than when you rag on other sports writers. The thing is, I don’t stoop to the level of many of the folks in even this thread, wherein I make it easy for you to boot me for violating one of your rules (not that you ever do, despite how many times you tell people to knock off the namecalling, etc.)
Most of the time I jump in when the White Sox are mentioned, that’s true. And I get that you and everyone elses reactions to what I say are greater because I’m a Sox fan. Regardless, when you write things that I find nicely ironic, I will call you on it, and I do so in a manner that violates none of your board rules. That’s the beauty of SBNation sites. You don’t like it, fine, ban me, and look like a hypocrite.
by South Side Expat on Jan 5, 2012 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
Where some of us may criticize some of what Al writes
you’re openly admitting to making fun of him. If you don’t understand the difference, or see why this is an issue, then I suggest growing up or exercising a little maturity.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
And if you don't think that so many posters here
do the exact same thing when they make comments, you are delusional. I’m mature enough to admit that I’m light heartedly poking fun of him at times. That’s what the internet is for. I’ve NEVER been meanspirited in the manner that folks in this very thread are being towards each other.
by South Side Expat on Jan 5, 2012 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
"That's what the internet is for"
are you from 4chan?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
What's 4chan? You need to link to stuff if you're going to make claims like this.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 5, 2012 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I asked a question
Had I stated he was from 4chan, I would have linked to a picture of pedobear or something.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
Now, I'm going to ask you.
Just what is the difference between ANYTHING that I’ve written “trolling” Al, and this comment right here? It’s lightheartedly laughing at Al and the arguments he gets into with people around here.
by South Side Expat on Jan 5, 2012 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
You're purposely being mean spirited, by your own admission
SWL isn’t. It’s also a matter of equity. If you see a group of friends busting each others balls, do you then join in and start talking crap to one of the people in the group?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
Please point to where I've admitted what I do is
is mean spirited?
by South Side Expat on Jan 5, 2012 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
All I need to quote is this
So I’ve made a few comments here in the past few days that make a little fun of you.
Making fun of someone is inherently mean spirited, and is bullying by nature. It’s also a poor reflection of your own self esteem and level of maturity.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
So I'm managing to bully a guy on his own blog.
Huh. Well, thanks for giving me way more power than I ever thought I had!
Hey Al, give me your lunch money!
by South Side Expat on Jan 5, 2012 2:17 PM CST up reply actions
You can act like a bully anywhere... location has nothing to do with it.
He also never said you were a successful bully.
See what's tripping you up, is you apparently have a
very simple minded understanding of what “bullying” is.
Considering you’re simple minded, it’s not surprising
You should look up what a bully is
or what bullying is.
Here, I’ll make it easier. Stop being a dick.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
Again, namecalling. Something
I’ve never stooped to here. Good stuff when making the argument you are trying to make about what I post.
by South Side Expat on Jan 5, 2012 2:23 PM CST up reply actions
It's not namecalling
it’s describing a behavior. I’m done though, because you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing, and you’re never going to acknowledge that your behavior is detestable. Keep on truckin’.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
Also, we could actually look something up-
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bully
I don’t think you want to admit what that would say about Al if you want to keep using that term.
by South Side Expat on Jan 5, 2012 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
This is a public place
No different than a state beach or movie theater or highway. Therefore it would be in your best interests to conduct yourself courteously.
This place is nothing like any of those.
First, it’s not a public place. It’s a website owned by SBN or whatever that media company is now. Second, You do not go to the movies or the highway or the beach to interact with others or comment on what they have written.
by South Side Expat on Jan 5, 2012 3:22 PM CST up reply actions
azjazzman's sole purpose in BCB is to be the biggest dick possible
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The difference is between trolling and criticizing
You seem to be openly trying to get reactions and attention.
Whereas others like Nunya point out inconsistencies and possible hypocrisy.
Right.
I don’t always agree with Nunya — rarely, in fact — but he does make his points and backs them up with facts.
That’s very different from what SS Expat does.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I wish you were less troll-ish and more of a
poster who could give us an unbiased, knowledgable, non-fan-of-the-Cubs point of view. It would be very interesting to get that kind of opinion from a fan of a different team.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
At times, I try to give you the view of a Sox fan
and I try to do it in a manner that is without the “Cubs Hate.” Thats the best I can do.
by South Side Expat on Jan 5, 2012 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
have to respect that openness
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
I wonder if they're the same person.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 5, 2012 9:34 PM CST up reply actions
If you do an analysis of our grammatical
structure and syntax, you will find out that we are most certainly not the same.
I certainly wouldn’t make the same generalization of the BCB rescue brigade. Your posts are unique just as CubbieTim, Nunya, SWL’s and bdluqz’ are.
by South Side Expat on Jan 6, 2012 3:11 AM CST up reply actions
Actually,
I was basing my comment more upon the mutual “I’m right and you’re wrong, holier than thou” approach both of you take.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 6, 2012 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not so sure other Sox fans want you representing them
kinda confirms our thoughts on them.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
when I talk with my WS friends, we try to talk to each other,
as fans of baseball, not fans of our respective teams….otherwise we get in trouble.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
i have yet to see this said post
can you please show me, it’s always possible i missed it
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Why do you continue to feed the troll?
by South Side Expat on Jan 5, 2012 7:11 PM CST up reply actions
u and azjazzman should get a room together
…. a troll slumber party. lol
by chit0wn on Jan 5, 2012 7:14 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Only if you can be the meat in our troll sandwich.
by South Side Expat on Jan 5, 2012 8:02 PM CST up reply actions
just ignore him...
his best friend in the world, whom he met online? or knows in real life somehow got the authority to ban people at SSS. this “mod” over there is a complete joke, and makes that site a farce.
many of the great posters that used to grace the pages of SSS have lost interest since this debacle. although jim can somewhat write, the way the changing of the guard went down left a bad taste in many people’s mouths.
now people like SSE are prominent posters desperately trying to get chuckles out of people. he reports everything you guys say back to (whomever cares over there)?
i would just ignore his pathetic attempts to get a rise out of people.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 9, 2012 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
invite drcrawdad
… then u can be in the middle where u like it .. a troll 3way
by chit0wn on Jan 5, 2012 8:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Keep trollin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3My4MHr51c
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
If Al decided to ban you... no one would worry if he was a hypocrite
And no one would lose sleep over it.
Don't be so sure
Just last week my wife was shaking me awake and said I was screaming in my sleep. I asked what I was saying and she said
“BlueMike!!!!!”
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Never said anyone would worry about it,
never said anyone would lost sleep over it. I’m sure none of you would care.
by South Side Expat on Jan 5, 2012 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
Honestly
I enjoy a lot of the instigators.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
/

i give you permission to go report this back to the lemmings.
skeletons don't like closets.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 9, 2012 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
If there were anyone on the Marlins blog
If a MLB team falls in the forest and no one is there to watch, does it make a sound?
How can you have watched the last 3 years and have a balanced point of view?
I didn’t realize Zambrano had only been on the Cubs for 3 years, last I checked his Cubs career started in 2000 and he was one of the better pitchers in the NL for the better part of the last decade.
So knock yourself out focusing on all the bad stuff that happened over the last 3 years, I’ll choose to look at his entire 11 year Cubs career and judge him as a player based on that.
Carlos Zambrano had an ERA of 3.60 and produced 31.3 WAR (2.84 WAR average over 11 years). Between 2003-2010 he produced an average of 3.7 WAR per season, which is worth almost $18.5M per year, better than any Cubs pitcher over that same time frame. He will go down as one of the best Cubs pitcher of all time.
Like I said, a lot of positive things to say about Z. I’ll miss him greatly, antics and all, he will also go down as one of my favorite Cubs players of all time. You could never accuse him of not hustling or not caring. He gave 110% each time he played and I have a lot of respect for that.
Flame away, I only ask that Cubs fans look at the totality of his Cubs career and not the last 3 years, that goes for ARam as well……
zambrano from 2000-2008 isn't the same pitcher as zambrano from 2009-2011
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
who the f*ck cares, we're talking about his entire Cubs career, not his most recent 3 year sample
Focus on whatever piece of information you want to fit your preconceived notions of Zambrano’s ability. I care about his whole Cubs career, not just the last 3 years……
alrighty then
you go do that
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
A lot of people care, including the Cubs FO.
Notice how he was traded?
I'm not sure
those are really comparable.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
how an organization decides
to trade a player is very different from how a fan looks at a player’s career.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 2:50 PM CST up reply actions
I really don't understand how Zambrano not being the same pitcher from 2009-2011
As he was from 2000-2008 isn’t comparable when discussing that change as a major reason he was traded. Obviously the Cubs FO cared that he had regressed massively – they traded him.
of course.
but that doesn’t mean that fans shouldn’t look at his entire career when judging him.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
Sure, but the sad fact is, the last 3 years of bad have outweighed the years of good.
If they didn’t, he wouldn’t have likely fallen out of favor with the fans or the FO.
well, that's your opinion.
but it’s not mine. Then again, he never fell out of favor with me.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
I literally can't imagine what a player, coach or front office employee on the Chicago Cubs would have to do...
on or off the field…for them to “fall out of favor” with you.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 5, 2012 4:12 PM CST up reply actions
play really badly.
I didn’t like Cedeno, or Hill, or Miles, for example.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
you call it being a douche
I call it being passionate about the game, and struggling with his emotions.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 5:09 PM CST up reply actions
This is awesome. I'm using the "I'm just passionate about this and struggling with my emotions" excuse from now on.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 5, 2012 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
go for it.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 5:11 PM CST up reply actions
You will be fired from your job
In less than a week.
They have two liter bottles now? To think I spent all that time demanding a liter!
Thing is...
…there were already baseball bats in the dugout when Z demolished the Gatorade machine. You voluntarily brought in a bat to bash in the break room refrigerator so…I’m sure you can see the difference.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
If a good player repeatedly can't play because
he is either ejected, put on the disqualified list or doesn’t eat his bananas he falls out of favor with me.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
and how many times prior to the 30 day suspension
did that actually happen?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 5:09 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not about to count them.
My point is that if he can’t play, he’s hurting the team and that is something I don’t care for.
I don’t remember at what point I gave up hoping he’d change and finally said “enough is enough” with Z. One thing I can say is that as strongly as I feel this is the best move for the team, I still like him and wish him well as a person. I truly believe the guy tried.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
Then you should dislike Zambrano...
Because he played really badly for the last two years.
And he behaved poorly on top of it. Mostly because he played badly.
That’s not passion, it’s immaturity.
It's 106 miles to Chicago...
really.
I’m allowed to have that opinion, you know.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 5:08 PM CST up reply actions
sure
but I’m not going to agree with you.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 9:56 PM CST up reply actions
Where were you July 2010?
Or when he retired?
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 5, 2012 9:36 PM CST up reply actions
watching
and wanting him to do the right thing for him.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 9:56 PM CST up reply actions
2011 was the 1st year in Zambrano's career where he had an ERA above 4
Zambrano was actually a very good pitcher in 2009 (3.6 fWAR in 170 innings) and in 2010 (2.3 fWAR in 130 innings). The latter year also was a year where he was banished to the bullpen in one of the more stupid moves in recent Cubs history. Since fWAR is cumulative, without the bullpen move, Zambrano would have been right at 3 fWAR if he would have pitched 170 innings in 2010.
So all of this massive regression you are talking about the last 3 years? Where is it? Please, someone show me where this terrible pitcher was in 2009 and 2010? He was better those two years than he was in 2007-08. So all of this massive regression you speak of really just amounts to a poor 2011 season.
But, the popular position on BCB regarding Zambrano is that he’s been a terrible pitcher for a while now and there is really nothing anybody who cares to look at the numbers objectively can really do to change that perception……
And to be quite frank, IIRC, you are a numbers guy and I’m surprised hear this type of statement from you. I’m pretty sure you know BigZ was really good in 2009 and 2010, so what gives?
by magicblue on Jan 5, 2012 6:26 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll begin the shrine building for Carlos,
right after I finish Darryl Strawberry’s. Both very talented, and both real penises.
"Hey Hey, Holy mackerel, no doubt about it,!"
by scottsdalecubs on Jan 5, 2012 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
And real ones, at that.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
At least one of these guys had a drug problem.
The other was a out of control hothead.
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jan 6, 2012 12:42 AM CST up reply actions
He's given Z way more benefit of the doubt over the years
In fact, over the course of Z’s career, Al has actually been too nice regarding Z.
Just win the next game...!
So if I do this, you'll admit you were wrong?
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I know I'm still waiting for an answer.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
I was thinking the same thing.
Why keep rehashing all the negatives. I’ve been a bid fan of Big Z, but agree it was time for him to go. So let’s remember some of his highlights.
I’ll start with a game that I always remember from 2003 in Houston, with the Cubs in a pennant race. Z gave up 3 unearned runs in the first, then not only went into the 9th without giving up another run, but hit a 2-ru game-tying homer in the 7th when a pinch hitter seemed to make more sense. An Alou dinger in the 8th proved to be the game-winner.
http://m.bbref.com/m?p=XXboxesXXHOUXXHOU200307250.shtml
Harry Caray: Marshall is going back to LA to get cocaine for his injured foot.
Steve Stone: Harry, that’s Novocaine.
by Julio Zuleta's Voodoo on Jan 5, 2012 7:56 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
The negatives are why this deal even happened
It would be sloppy to not first reference why we arrived at this destination. You can show off his positives as well, or better yet, leave that up to some Marlins fan/blogger. It shouldn’t be Al’s responsibility to put together a highlight reel for them.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 8:05 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
But it's Al's responsibility to pile on? I thought that's what comments were for.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
"Pile on"?
I think Z did that to himself.
However, I did thank Z for the memories, many of them good ones. It’s not a bad idea to go over those. Maybe I’ll do that.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
I hope you do...
…because a few links and a “I wish Carlos Zambrano well” don’t really compare to a detailed timeline of his on/off field histrionics.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
It's not piling on, though.
I may not agree with Al on everything, but I do agree with how he approached this. Not everyone reads these comments, and so I think Al did the right thing in expressing how and why we reached this point. This deal didn’t happen because Z threw a no-hitter, because of how many home runs he hit, because of his silly frosted tips, etc. This deal happened because of everything Al mentioned in this essay. I don’t see the issue in historically reflecting on what past thoughts were when Z would blow up. It’s also just one essay after a post about the announcement of the deal. Again, Al can’t assume that everyone reads the comments and thus already knows his feelings on the matter. Sometimes you need to write for people outside the bubble.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 8:18 AM CST up reply actions
I guess what I'm looking for is some balance.
This wasn’t Milton Bradley being traded where you’d really really really have to look hard to find some positive Cubs contributions to write about. Carlos Zambrano meant a lot to this franchise while he was here – it would have been nice to see some of that mentioned as well.
As to why this deal happened… well, does anyone ever get traded for good reasons? So yeah, from a reporting perspective, I guess there’s a need to explain how we got to this point. But if all you’re going to do is highlight the negative, I would have preferred a more concise “just the facts, ma’am” recap approach. No need to hash it all out again.
And yes, Al, while Z did indeed do all those things to himself, what you did was piling on.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
C'mon, Hawk.
There’s a lot of stuff that Al didn’t even include. The infamous “we stinks” game, the late scratch in Denver in 2009, showing up teammates who made errors (other than D-Lee in 2010).
If Zambrano had been traded in 2007 or 2008 — when Z had more good performances to his credit and when he’d had fewer blowups — then there would have been more positives to throw in. But in January 2012, the only highlight of the past three seasons that I can remember was his start against Lincecum in late 2010.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Well, I'm not looking for an impassioned eulogy
Again, I would have preferred a much concise sendoff. Short and sweet and then let the comments have at it.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Well, it's Al's world ...
we’re just living in it.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
by elgato on Jan 5, 2012 8:41 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
These are the times I wish I had Photoshop skillz...

…or SWL on my payroll
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
So my post should have read
Carlos Zambrano is no longer a Cub. Have at it.
Is that right? That’s kind of what you’re saying here.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
by Al Yellon on Jan 5, 2012 9:08 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
well, that's a bit extreme
to put it quantitatively… if your original post was 100 and your suggestion above was 1, I’d say somewhere around 40 would have been the sweet spot, IMO.
But like el said, it’s your world. I understand that. I’m just using the comments to express my preference for either a little more love to go along with the meltdown breakdown, or a little less on the meltdowns to begin with.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
The meltdowns, unfortunately, have defined Z.
They are the reason he’s no longer a Cub. Does that make sense?
It does make some sense to celebrate the good. I’ll try to do that, maybe for tomorrow.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
by Al Yellon on Jan 5, 2012 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
maybe they've defined Z for you.
Not everyone. You could recognize that.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
Sure.
However, if they don’t define Z for you, I think you’d probably acknowledge that yours is a minority point of view.
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As I did
yesterday.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
as long as it isnt linked to
MLB Trade Rumors
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Yeah!
A throw an Ivy wreath on the BCB logo.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 5, 2012 9:15 AM CST up reply actions
But in January 2012, the only highlight of the past three seasons that I can remember was his start against Lincecum in late 2010.
Why are you so focused on the last 3 seasons? What about his performance from 2003-2009? Do those years not count for anything?
Cubs fans (not directed specifically at you) have such short memories, any player accomplishments since prior to the 2008 collapse seems to have been completely forgotten. There’s such a focus on the negatives of first ARam and now Zambrano. These guys are two the greatest Cubs players of all time, and most of the fans on this blog have nothing but negative things to focus on, which is sad…….
Cubs fans (not directed specifically at you) have such short memories
I’ll wager this is true of a lot of sports fans in general. Look at how people treat Lovie, and he’s gone to the playoffs four times in the past decade, won the division twice, and the conference once and gone to the superbowl.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
It's all about...
…“What have you done for me lately?”. Like it is in EVERY sport.
Happy New Year to all BCBers...be safe.
Yeah
I appreciate Peyton Manning leading the Colts to a record number of 10 and 12 win seasons, 2 Super Bowls, and 1 Super Bowl victory, but I don’t want him and his fused spine throwing a football for the Colts this season and risk blowing a gigantic wad on money on that if and when he goes down or doesn’t perform to his previous level.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
talk about a team
depending on one guy. It’s amazing to have watched them this season.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
Let me tell you
as a Colts fan, it was a lot of fun. How they won 2 games, I don’t even know, because they were worse than the 0-16 Lions team.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
I presume you mean "fun"
in the “as fun as having a rabid badger sleeping in my sweatpants that I’m wearing” fun.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 1:15 PM CST up reply actions
No, it was fun
I didn’t have to watch the full games and you can’t help but laugh at a team that bad. It was also somewhat comforting to know they were going to most likely get a #1 pick after that 4th or 5th game.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
It's amazing, sometimes,
Teams have no contingency in case one of their key players gets injured. I always worried about that with Aaron Rodgers. But what Matt Flynn did to the Lions, how he did that when the Lions had to win, I will never know.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 5, 2012 9:38 PM CST up reply actions
There's a quote from Bill Polian, former Colts GM
and he was asked why they weren’t trying to prepare Painter more in case Manning ever went down, and his response was something to the effect of “Are you kidding? We’re not doing that because we can’t win without Manning.” I’m so thankful him and his rotten kid are gone from the Colts organization now. Same goes for Angelo and the Bears.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
More like...what have you done for me, ever?
This is a franchise that has won in over 100 years. What exactly are we celebrating here? A few good memories?
The guy didn’t contribute to a championship, or even a World Series birth. That’s how the fans of most teams evaluate guys worthy of the pantheon.
It's 106 miles to Chicago...
I could just as easily say ...
why are you willing to dismiss the past three years.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I'm not, Z was actually pretty good in 2009 (3.6 WAR) and 2010 (2.3 WAR)
so I have never dismissed those years, I would actually count those as part of the good Z years. The only year I’d like to dismiss is 2011, because this was the 1st year that he was not a a below average pitcher.
what do people remember of Barry bonds
that he beat a HR record,or that he was accused of steroids.
how about Roger Clemens? good pitcher or bad person (steroids lieing etc etc)
Pete rose? good player or gambler.
point is people are defined by the actions they take. not how the first 8 years of their career went .
by RIP Slim on Jan 5, 2012 1:27 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
--
Bonds – best hitter Ive ever seen
Clemens – Great pitcher and a big dick
Pete Rose – gambling and hit record
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
or to the casual fan
bonds-steroids
Clemens- lied under oath
Rose-made bets involving his team
I’m not saying that each of those players are awful,actually they were good at what they did. The point is 85% of people remember their negative actions than positive ones
by RIP Slim on Jan 5, 2012 1:50 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
All valid points
I just hate to see a key Cub player for a decade leave and have so much of the focus be on the negatives, particularly when they’ve been discussed at such length already. Al certainly can (and should) write about the events that led us to this point, but us fans can certainly choose to remember the good times instead.
Harry Caray: Marshall is going back to LA to get cocaine for his injured foot.
Steve Stone: Harry, that’s Novocaine.
by Julio Zuleta's Voodoo on Jan 5, 2012 8:12 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Z never had a problem when things went well.
Unfortunately, a mans character is tested in hard times. Z couldn’t handle adversity. I echo Al’s feelings about him and wish him well. He did alot of good things in Chicago. Unfortunately, growing up wasn’t one of them.
by Rick B on Jan 5, 2012 7:49 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Zambrano was a major contributor to the Cubs being dysfunctional
So, I am glad he’s gone. Although hope is not a method (according to Gen Gordon Sullivan), it would be good to see Volstad’s upside be realized soon.
I enjoy this website because it's so interesting to see folks pole vaulting over mouse turds.
Jim Hendry's total and utter incompetence
Al suggests the Cubs trade Zambrano on June 2nd, 2007, he’s just not salvageable.
Ten weeks later on Aug 15th, 2007 Hendry gives Zambrano and five year 90 million dollar contract.
and you're saying Zambrano had no significant contributions
between 2007 and 2012?
Give me a break.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
please
91 million dollar worth of contributions?
I think
that player salaries are ridiculous, and should be capped far lower than they are. But that’s not the point. It’s not YOUR 91 million.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
But that’s not the point. It’s not YOUR 91 million.
That’s not really the point either. The question was whether he was worth that money. Doesn’t matter whether it was yours, mine or ours, compared to others who are making that kind of money, the argument can be strongly made that he didn’t earn it.
no one is worth
the money. No one is worth 91 million dollars to play a game. I don’t care who they are.
The market is what the market is. Zambrano was a good ball player who struggled with his emotions on and off the field.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
“No one is worth 91 million dollars to play a game. "
Obviously when looking at “was he worth it” you’re measuring that against his contemporaries.
But I see we’ve reached the point where you begin splitting hairs.. so I’m out.
look at the numbers.
I don’t see how Z doesn’t stack up.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 5:09 PM CST up reply actions
I said at the time, "Zambrano is a knucklehead, but he's OUR knucklehead"
This was always a high risk, high reward signing. Like many signings of the Hendry era, much possibility, but it didn’t pan out.
There was little choice but to take the risk at that time. However, the time for parting was right.
It's 106 miles to Chicago...
Buster Olney on Cubs high priced players
@Buster_ESPNBuster Olney
It’s staggering to consider how little return the Cubs have gotten for some of the priciest signings: Zambrano, Bradley, Fukudome, Soriano.
Soriano, at least, was productive until the injuries.
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I give the Cubs some slack on the Zambrano signing.
He was a homegrown pitcher with lots of talent — he won nearly 60 games in 2003-2006 — who was in his prime, age wise (27 at the time of the signing, IIRC). And the worst of the blowups occurred after the extension.
Giving an 8-year deal to a toolsy player in his 30s with no plate discipline, no real defensive position was a far worse idea than giving a 27-year-old a 5-year deal.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
by elgato on Jan 5, 2012 8:17 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Moderately.
He put up a 122 OPS+ in 2007. That’s nice. That’s not $18MM worth of nice.
Now, he’s lucky to post league-average seasons.
When you spend $18MM and 8 seasons on a guy, you expect 140+ OPS seasons – and Soriano has zero such seasons to his credit for his entire career.
The signing was a stretch. The Cubs were expecting that Soriano had established a new level of play with his excellent 2006, and that’s a season he hasn’t remotely approached before or since.
The fact that he managed 1 and a half seasons worth of his typical 120-ish OPS+ pre-Cub performance (assuming we leave his great WAS 2006 season out entirely) doesn’t mitigate the fact that his signing was a poor one. The Cubs had passed on a number of top free agents, Soriano happened to be available, and here we are.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jan 5, 2012 8:52 AM CST up reply actions
Lesson
How many people on this board, and in the media last year, said “just drop Zambrano, eat the money”. While they are only being relieved of 2-3 Million, that is still something. In addition, getting Volstad is the key to this. While not a top of the rotation guy, he’s another piece to ensure we don’t have Rodrigo Lopez and Casey Coleman starting this year.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
so bittersweet
To me bittersweet sums up the Cubs in the first decade of this new century. Many have speculated that Z’s antics were triggered by pressure, including pressure to be the number 1 pitcher carrying this team. Imagine if, instead, all was asked of him was to be the number 2 or 3 pitcher behind Prior and Wood for the last 7 years. This trade severs the last link to the “what if” cubs of the last decade.
by TC Cubby on Jan 5, 2012 8:11 AM CST reply actions 4 recs
Great point
Wow, that hurts to think about though.
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
I love that even back in 2007
people were arguing if the Cubs could get a Top prospect in a trade for Zambrano.
I wont miss Z.
So i you can give you can take it.
Z was always about promise and unfulfilled at that.
I saw Z pitch in Des Moines when he was 19 thinking that this guy is going to be really something. I saw him pitch in August 2003 against a very good Astros team in the heat of a pennant race and watched him 3-hit shutout (if my memory is correct) that night in a dominating fashion. I thought he will be awesome for years to come, Cy Young potential.
But what I saw as he came into his prime was failure after failure. Not in shape, typing cramps from emailing his brother (now explain that again???) and blowups that would embarrass a two year old. He had all the promise of a big time pitcher and never fulfilled it. Sure he teased us with a no-hitter and occasional greatness and dominance, but I think we can agree we all waited for the year he would dominate from start to finish and all we were left with was disappointment. He never fulfilled the promise he possessed in that big right arm.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 is going into the Hall of Fame!!
Volstad can now say he was traded for $15 million. Haha.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I didn't chime in much last night.
TheoJed got enough of a return that this move isn’t all that one-sided, and Volstad could be a sleeper (I admit I don’t know much about him).
After all these years, I don’t think Zambrano’s a bad guy. He’s just troubled, and I think he needed a change of scenery more than any other player I can remember — at least, among players who might actually benefit from said change of scenery (i.e. not MB).
Good luck, Carlos.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Al, I think you portrayed Z perfectly in this article.
His histrionics always overshadowed his talent. You told it like it is. A sad story.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
A sad story indeed
We were lucky enough to get seats right behind home plate durin 2004 Spring Training and watched Z pitch. We were stunned. So much promise in him, for the Cubs and for us! He seemed to be able to move the ball left, right, up, down at any speed, and still control it. Too bad he couldn’t control himself. Maybe he’ll change in Florida. That would be a typical Cub result!
One of Lee Elia's 15%
He might just thrive with Ozzie.
Hope he does. As long as it’s not against the Cubs.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
Pretty happy with this deal
Z gave us some good moments and then there was the other stuff….hopefully he can get his act together in Miami, for his sake anyways…and hopefully Volstad can live up to his potential. Either way, getting Z out of Chicago was absolutely the right move.
He certainly TRIED
ONE thing you cannot say about Zambrano is that he didn’t give it his all…I think he probably tried too hard and wanted it too much. good luck in Fla!!
Sad all the way around
Z really could have been something, and his contract at the time was justifiable. But there was no way he could come back.
Things certainly will be entertaining in Miami this season.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 5, 2012 8:46 AM CST reply actions
...

♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
It's a sculpture in their outfield. It lights up for Miami HR.
It’s gonna be sweet.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jan 5, 2012 8:53 AM CST up reply actions
If I look at this long enough,
I fear I might have a seizure.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 5, 2012 9:11 AM CST up reply actions
the contract wasn't justifable to many
Al even suggested to dump Zambrano on June 2nd, 2007, many GM’s would not have done that deal.
I'm not sure Al
was in the majority at that point.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 5, 2012 9:10 AM CST up reply actions
I'm sure I wasn't.
And as has been pointed out, only 10 weeks later, Z got his five year extension.
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Agreed.
I wonder just how long it will take for Z and Ozzie to have a falling-out.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 5, 2012 9:40 PM CST up reply actions
By the fourth inning on opening day
might be a good place to start.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 6, 2012 10:55 PM CST up reply actions
I know this is unlikely
but has anybody heard what the Cubs will have to pay out if Z actually has a great year, finishes healthy and finishes in the top 4 of Cy Young? This would make him expensive for 2013 right?
Does anyone else see Soriano picking his nose?
I'm willing to roll those dice...
If the Cubs thought Z was really capable of that, they wouldn’t have made this deal. He hasn’t had ‘top 4 in the Cy Young’ stuff in years.
And...
… he has never finished in the top 4 of Cy Young voting, even in his good years. Not once.
He’s received Cy Young votes in three seasons: 2004, 2006 and 2007. Finished fifth all three times.
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I know it's next to impossible that he finishes in the top 4 in Cy Young voting
but if I remember that is potentially a $19 million dollar payout, they have to have some kind of plan for that.
Does anyone else see Soriano picking his nose?
I think even if he magically gets a top 4 in Cy Young voting he would still walk.
He could use that to get a 3 year deal vs chancing a blowup in 2013 on the Marlins.
I read that
the Marlins would be on the hook for that.
Sorry, no link.
The sun is up. They sky is blue. It's beautiful, and so are you. Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play? ~Lennon & McCartney
by SouthWabashSoul on Jan 5, 2012 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
Thank you for the memories
But this has been a long time coming. Glad to see TheoJed clean up this mess too. Onward to better things!
OCCUPY BCB. - swl
Sad Times
Big Z, you will be missed.
I will be the 1st to admit that Z has acted unprofessional at various times throughout this career, but I can only wonder what Z would have achieved if drafted by an organization with culture and accountability.
I think Zs outbursts were a cry for change within the organization. Now that the Cubs have hit rock bottom, we bring in TheoJed for that change.
Oh, what could have been.
"Don't stop now, Boys.".....Hawk Harrelson
As much as I hate to say it...
…I believe the Cubs will now re-sign Kerry Wood. I’m thinkin’ he was one of the vets who wanted Zambrano gone and it may have delayed his re-signing…imo. Or maybe Hoyer & Epstein want to rid the team of everything reminding of ‘03? Wood would be all that’s left. Probably not. Just a thought.
Happy New Year to all BCBers...be safe.
by Easy Ed on Jan 5, 2012 9:13 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I think you are right
I’m sure Kerry had good intentions, but his tweet made me cringe.
KerryWood Kerry Wood
@@MLB @cubs @marlins Best of luck to Big Z in Miami. Played together for 9 seasons. Wish him all the best!
Kerry wanted him gone like so many other vets.
"Don't stop now, Boys.".....Hawk Harrelson
Sure.
But why say something bad on Twitter about him? That was a classy thing to tweet.
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Which is what you'd expect from Kerry Wood
Class all the way.
What the hell is the harm in wishing a guy you played with for almost a decade good wishes?
I’m having trouble understanding why Kerry Wood saying goodbye to Zambrano made you “cringe”
by Nunyabidness on Jan 5, 2012 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
He (Epstein), also said...
…he would give Zambrano every chance to right himself with the team in 2012. Epstein seems to give the media just enough to keep them happy…whether he means any of it or not. I like that about him.
Happy New Year to all BCBers...be safe.
I dunno, they seem like two different things.
The point of saying Z was able to come back was to try and keep his trade value at a certain level. I don’t know what’s accomplished by saying Wood’s coming back and then not re-signing him.
DUMP GARZA
To keep from answering the same question over and over?
Maybe one of the hold-ups is that Hoyer & Epstein would like the opportunity to trade him at the deadline, if possible, for more prospects. Wood probably wants a NTC. He probably don’t realize that Hoyer & Epstein don’t have the “love” for Wood like the previous regime had. Just a thought.
Happy New Year to all BCBers...be safe.
I highly doubt Kerry Wood is asking for a NTC at this point in his career.
by Nunyabidness on Jan 5, 2012 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
not to support EE's paranoia...
but it wouldnt surprise me if he’s looking for it. he’s said if it isnt the cubs he’ll retire. so no since in signing a one year agreement or whatever, only to get traded in july and not play in chicago.
So i you can give you can take it.
LaHair
Al- I guess next year, the winner of this boards frequent argument will be determined, as Theo said yesterday that Lahair is the starting first basemen. Theo also has said now (at least 3 times) that he doesn’t believe in 4 A players. Comment is not get you going, just to recognize that one of those board debates will be solved this year (most likely).
"I feel great, I just wish my team played better"
Yes, it will be solved one way or the other.
Either Theo’s right, or I am. Maybe LaHair really is good enough to be a productive major leaguer. If he is, I’ll be happy to admit I was wrong.
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Could also be read as LaHair is the starting first baseman...
…right this second, pending a future 1B signing.
I would not be comfortable entrusting the starting 1B job to LaHair, but if he makes his 2011-closeout the norm (or close), so be it.
Weekend contributor and official editorial lackey/waitstaff at Windy City Gridiron
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by Steven Schweickert on Jan 5, 2012 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
Interpretation
I think Theo meant that players like LaHair have to be given a chance in the majors otherwise the franchise could be blowing a big opportunity. And then he talked about how not all of the pitching differences favor the minor league hitters, such as the strike zone difference. He didn’t say that LaHair would obviously succeed in the majors.
They don’t seem to be spending money for 2012, so it will likely be LaHair at 1B or a player acquired through trade who they view as having more upside.
by AboutTheCubs on Jan 5, 2012 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
Here is how big Z's situation works
It’s like when you get into some financial trouble or any trouble, and you have to go live with your parents for a while. After a year you find a place to live and are back on your feet again. Well mom and dad it was great living here but it is time for me to go. With that said if you are old then your kids might come and live with you in this situation when they leave you say well I love you but you have to move out. You love them you will miss them but it has to happened.
I've read this four times and I'm still not getting it.
So Zambrano is the family dog who bit the neighbor and now has to go live on a farm?
DUMP GARZA
by shoemile on Jan 5, 2012 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
No! It's actually pretty simple.
Zambrano is like a house that needs a new roof but you don’t have enough money to pay the Amish to repair it. Duh!
#10 You will be missed.
by Bricks and Ivy on Jan 5, 2012 9:42 AM CST up reply actions
So you hire those Irish Travelers from South Carolina
And they rip you off.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 5, 2012 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
go live on a farm
Yeah, that’s what you tell the little kids….
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 5, 2012 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
OK, I think I kinda-sorta get what you're saying.
But a better metaphor might be: Z is the troubled son whose parents have allowed to live in their home long past the time when he should’ve moved out. And now the new landlord has finally forced them to evict him. Or something like that.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Z has been one of my favorites since he started with the Cubs.
I loved his fiery spirit and his will to win. He was awesome to watch from the mound (when he was good) and with the bat in his hands. With that being said, he really needed to go somewhere else. It will be better for the Cubs because we can start to be molded into the team Theo sees winning as and it will be better for him because it will be a fresh start. He can leave his bad memories with him in Chicago and bring the good ones with him to Miami.
I wish him nothing but the best and will be cheering for him in Miami. Unless he’s playing the Cubs of course.
#10 You will be missed.
by Bricks and Ivy on Jan 5, 2012 9:37 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I need some gambling advice.
I can’t seem to find anywhere that will let me bet on a felony assault taking place in the Marlin’s locker room next year. I’m sure it’s a long shot, but it seems like it would be worth a small wager.
Ok, ok... Clearly I'm in the distinct minority on the best way to say goodbye to Z. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers.
So just to show everyone that I do have a sense of humor about this (because, well, you know, I’m always so serious around here), here’s a little something I like to call my “Ode to Z…”
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jan 5, 2012 9:58 AM CST reply actions 8 recs
Over/under 20 total trips to the mound by Ozzie...
…before their “bromance” takes a crap?
Happy New Year to all BCBers...be safe.
I wonder if they'll actually get into it on the mound.
Oh man, this is gonna be great.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
And somehow
There is a bright blue ski and it is sunny in downtown Chicago.
It’s a beautiful day for a ballgame… Let’s play two!
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
Well atleast I can say I was in attendance for Z's last outing as a Cub.
Even though it was a dreadful game in Atl. I’ll miss Z, he’s been my favorite Cub since the Sosa era ended.
THIS IS (not) THE YEAR!
by CubsPanthersTarHeels on Jan 5, 2012 10:04 AM CST via mobile reply actions
For years I was one of Zambrano's biggest defenders/apologists
I was even in favor of the contract he signed as I had some kind of naive notion that job security would be what it takes to calm him down and get him focused. But his antics over teh years gradually wore me down. As the Cubs veteran said, it wasn’t just one (or even two or three) incidents but a repeating pattern of erratic behavior that, coupled with his declining fastball, made him a cancer.
By the end I was so thoroughly sick of his act that I couldn’t even get angry about it anymore. I don’t care if he goes out and wins 20 games with Miami-this was a good move, the ONLY move that Theo could have made to insure a healthier clubhouse atmosphere.
I feel better about the Cubs today than I did at this same time yesterday.
I can understand that
but one can’t help but wonder who will be the way to eat up all those innings for the Cubs. If they also trade Garza, then you multiply the problem X 2.
As far as that goes...
…right now I’m perfectly happy to believe that the guys in charge know what they’re doing and will figure it out. I mean, Theo didn’t get as far as he has without knowing how to put together a pitching staff. And, while we’re at it, I can’t think of a LESS dependable guy than Z., to eat up innings anyway.
by bluekoolaide on Jan 5, 2012 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
His record does not reflect that
in fact, other than his suspension last year, Z was incredibly dependable when i came to eating up innings.
And whether Theo knows how to put together a pitching staff or not, those guys that can be penciled in for 200 innings with no concern about arm issues don’t grow on trees.
You need to recheck the records...
…since the last time he threw 200 innings was 2007.
by bluekoolaide on Jan 5, 2012 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Other than his suspension
Well, that just speaks of dependabilty. Sorry, that’s a difficult caveat for me to wrap my head around.
You are riught that 200 inning guys do not grow on trees. And Zambrano hasn’t been one of them – 4 straight years of less than 200 innings.
Suitable replacements for the innings are available. Paul Maholm, Joe Saunders, and Jeff Francis are all projected for at least 160 innings, which is more than Zambrano has averaged the last 4 seasons.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 5, 2012 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think they will.
Frankly, I don’t think anyone will pay Saunders that much.
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Don't side step the issue with money
You talked about 200 innings and you’re wrong. Simply put, the Cubs could not could on Zambrano for those 200 innings whether it would be due to injury or a suspension.
I just pointed out 3 FA options if the Cubs chose to go that way.
The Cubs have already made up the innings. Let’s say Zambrano and Sean Marshall combine for 275 IP (we’ll say Z pitches 200). In the 2 trades the Cubs have already got those innings – Travis Wood at 106 and Chris Volstad at 165. That’s 271 IP with longer term assets and additional players.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 5, 2012 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
An exceedingly odd comment.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Zambrano has averaged under 150 innings over the past 3 years...
I think they can fill those easily enough.
It seems like the myth of Carlos Zamrano is already starting to...
…supplant the reality in some people’s minds. He was anything BUT dependable over the last several years. Suspensions, injuries, premature retirements, fights with teammates…you name it. How anybody can realistically defend this guy or act like we’re screwed without him in the rotation at this point is beyond me.
If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result then Theo is the first sane guy we’ve had in charge in a long time.
by bluekoolaide on Jan 5, 2012 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm sure this has been said a million times in other threads and possibly this one...
I like the fact that the Cubs are paying $18 million for 3 years of pitcher who will likely exceed that value. That’s all.
Also, the trading Z thing sort of makes me sad. I watched him pitch in Des Moines before he was called up and the Iowa Cubs still have a huge banner of him hanging on the wall as you walk in to Principal Park. He was electric and cocky then, too. Glad I got to see him pitch in the minors and once last summer in Kansas City.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
I have a similar memory
of Pedro Martinez. Just by coincidence, I happen to catch a game he was pitching in AA in Bakersfield when he was in the Dodgers system.
He was absolutely dominant. When the Dodger traded him not long after, I thought they were crazy.
I still think it is one of the worst trades the Dodgers have made.
The Deal
is structured so that the Cubs pay Z’s salary (in full) and the Marlins pay whatever Volstad winds up making this year. Although he made the minimum last year, Volstad is arb eligible.
When I was reading the comments on this thread, I was reminded of the girl that used to post here that was such a Zambrano fan. I forget her screen name, but she really liked Big Z.
Oh well, 10 years is a pretty darn good run, no matter how you slice it. What I will remember about Zambrano is that for 10 years he gave the Cubs a good 200 innings per year and generally was in the low to mid 3’s in ERA. Pretty impressive, if you ask me,
The deal is structured so that the Cubs pay Z’s salary (in full) and the Marlins pay whatever Volstad winds up making this year.
Cite?
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See below
It’s right there in the Miami Herald’s article on the trade.
Quote:
“The deal will not cost the Marlins financially.They will pay Zambrano only what they would have paid Volstad, who is expected to make about $2.5 million in his first year of arbitration.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/05/2574051/miami-marlins-to-get-carlos-zambrano.html#storylink=cpy
If you had posted that link in your original comment above...
… that would have backed up your point better.
I note that article was written by the same reporter you quoted by tweet yesterday as saying the Cubs were picking up the entire Z contract. That’s true, but it’s not the whole story, as the article points out.
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I don't feel the need to back up my points
It is safe to assume that I know what I am talking about. After all these years I would think you would have figured that out by now.
Actually the Marlins beat reporter was correct in what he tweeted – that the Cubs were paying all of Z’s salary and the Marlins were paying Volstad’s.
He simply made the incorrect assumption that Volstad was making the minimum, as he did last year. I emailed him that Volstad was arb eligible this year, and he corrected himself in his actual story for the paper.
Yes, you need to back up your points.
Everyone here does. If you make a statement like that, and you find it from a link, you need to post the link.
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Bullshit
I don’t need to do anything of the sort.
This information is freely available on the internet for anyone who cares to google it. I am not posting super secret information and this is not a court of law.
by azjazzman on Jan 5, 2012 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
....

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 5, 2012 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
I love that this guy
has become a meme. He’s awesome.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
Your surliness is a fitting tribute...
…to this thread’s titular subject.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
by daver on Jan 5, 2012 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Happy New Year!
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 5, 2012 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
The Dude?

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 5, 2012 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
More like this dude...

“Gentlemen…”
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jan 5, 2012 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, you do.
You are not creating the information you post here. You are only passing it along from another source.
You are not exempt from posting a source, as I ask every single other person here to do.
If you cannot follow this rule, you will be asked to leave.
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Oh, just look through the rest of the treasure trove he left for you
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
Seriously,
Why haven’t you banned this guy yet? I’d rather take 25 people dropping F-bombs over a troll like him any day of the week.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 6, 2012 10:18 AM CST up reply actions
Plus, the profanity is unacceptable.
“freely available on the internet for anyone who cares to google it”?
Nonsense. You post something here that you didn’t create, you post the source. Period.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
This is so dumb I'm going to recommend it so others can see the dumbness behind it.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 6, 2012 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
Holy Giant Ego Batman!
I don’t feel the need to back up my points. It is safe to assume that I know what I am talking about. After all these years I would think you would have figured that out by now
Yes, your word is gospel, no one should EVER question what you say.
Just……..
Wow
by Nunyabidness on Jan 5, 2012 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 11 recs
he told me that the sky was pink
why would he lie?
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
He once told me that I should tug on Superman's cape
I’ll never listen to him again
by Nunyabidness on Jan 5, 2012 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
Oh and ESPN
and just about every other news source. When they say the Cubs will be paying between $15 and $16M, that is because nobody knows yet what Volstad will get in arbitration, but it is expected to be between $2 and $3M.
The best thing for both sides really
Z just couldn’t exist as a Cub any longer. That Marlins team is going to be interesting to watch next season.
that place is going to Implode.
Ozzie’s attitude
Z’s Insanity
Hanley’s selfishness
LoMo’s arrogance
So i you can give you can take it.
and i think the caliope HR thing is the trigger for it all...
just like in Halloween 3 with the silver shamrock jingle or Naked Gun with the Remote controlled Reggie jackson.
So i you can give you can take it.
Speaking of imploding...
…don’t forget Reyes’ hamstrings
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I think
you’re going to be surprised.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
Another Lugnut bites the dust for the Cubs
Marmol, Wells & a then-rehabbing Dempster are all that’s left. :(
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion? (Now #8452 in the Cubs Season Ticket Wait List...)
My biggest memory of Z
will be him throwing a no-hitter against the Astros in Milwaukee. Most of the rest of it didn’t matter. I didn’t even read your litany.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
Yeah, it's not like the rest of that stuff got him suspended which was detrimental to the team.
DUMP GARZA
something that happened
near the end of his time in Chicago. Yes, it was bad. But I don’t care. He was a great Cub, a good pitcher, and I liked him. Still, it’s not a bad trade, either. We’re moving forward, that’s good. I hope he has a good career in Miami.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
Eh, better than him trying to make something up to justify his feelings.
If he doesn’t care, he doesn’t care.
DUMP GARZA
Doesn't mean I can't give him the stink eye
cuz its dumb
by Nunyabidness on Jan 5, 2012 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
I don't look at
isolated portions of his career as a cub. I look at all of it as a whole. As a whole, Z was good for the Cubs. That’s why I don’t care.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
How was he good for the Cubs as a whole?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
seriously?
you’re gonna suggest that Zambrano wasn’t key to winning in 2003, 2007, 2008, 2009?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
Winning what, exactly, in 2009?
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 2:23 PM CST up reply actions
the best batting practice swing
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
2009 was
the first time the Cubs had three winning seasons in a row, either ever or in a long time, I can’t remember which.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 2:53 PM CST up reply actions
Certainly not ever
You don’t have to go that far back to find the late 1960-early 1970 teams.
And I don’t know that winning 83 games is a cause celebre.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
hmmm.
I could have sworn I read that somewhere. Maybe it’s that Lou was the first Cubs manager to win three seasons in a row?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
Leo Durocher would like a word
As would Charlie Grimm, Joe McCarthy, and
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 3:03 PM CST up reply actions
pfft.
this place gets remarkably meta when presented with an opposing view…
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
which
I haven’t done. I was wrong, I said I was wrong.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
ok
then I’m wrong. My bad.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
S'alright
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 4:22 PM CST up reply actions
Zambrano's late scratch in Denver in 2009 ...
has been cited as a reason that team completely fell apart after being in first place in August. Even if you don’t agree with that, Zambrano’s contribution to an 83-win disappointment is hardly worth bragging about.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I mean, you could say Soriano
had as much to do with the team winning in 2007 than Zambrano.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
I do say that.
They both had a big impact.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 2:53 PM CST up reply actions
I've got no qualms with your opinions or feelings on Z
I never understood your stance on MB, and so as it pertains to Z now, I won’t even try to understand. It just is what it is.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
ok,
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
I have made it clear that I think this is a bad deal and I will miss Z
While he brought much on himself sending to the bullpen was one the dumbest and destructive things the Cubs have done.
The ultimate irony here is that I think Z will do very well in Miami with Ozzie. I consider Ozzie crazy and nasty, but unlike Lou and Quade I think he will know how to handle Z.
Much of the posts on this remind of the famous Shakespeare line
“The evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones”
The bottom is loaded with nice people, Albert. Only cream and bastards rise
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 5, 2012 11:14 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
so he's going to destroy a gatorade machine with one of his bones?
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 11:31 AM CST up reply actions
no, I think the kids will find those bones on the farm after the Amish finish fixing the barn...
…and give them to the dog left behind by the Irish travelers.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I sense a bet between you and me on this, Jessica.
Your call.
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What would the bet be?
Z winning more in 2012 than Volstad? That’s pretty much a no-brainer, isn’t it?
Happy New Year to all BCBers...be safe.
Or starts.
Or something. I’ll leave it up to her.
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I will go with starts as I can' be sure of run support or fielding
30 plus OK with you. You can add something if you like, I am happy with the much maligned ERA.
The bottom is loaded with nice people, Albert. Only cream and bastards rise
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 5, 2012 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
You can do something like fielding independent stats...
FIP or xFIP? They’d be completely unbiased. Be warned, however, xFIP is generous to Volstad due to his HR/FB%
I was not thinking so much of a Volstead match up
Just how well Z will do for the Marlins.
The bottom is loaded with nice people, Albert. Only cream and bastards rise
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 5, 2012 3:30 PM CST up reply actions
Let me think about this.
I think we do have to bring Volstad into it somehow. Because I do think he’ll be better.
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OK with me
but I prefer old fashioned stats like starts, wins IP & ERA.
The bottom is loaded with nice people, Albert. Only cream and bastards rise
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 5, 2012 8:10 PM CST up reply actions
Starts, IP and ERA sure
…. but not wins! Garza proved in 2011 that wins are no way to grade a starter. dont u agree?
For a bet?
Maybe. We’ll have to think about how to do this.
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How about....
Over or Under….
25 as the number of days that Z is not available to the Marlins’ 25??
That would include DL stints, skipped starts (e.g., tweaked ankle and misses 7 days but doesn’t go on DL), and suspensions.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
I dont like this trade
… Z could be a maniac and act stupid sometimes but he could be a really good pitcher too and i think its dumb to pay $15 million of his salary when we need starting pitching and alls we get back is a piece of shit pitcher who will prolly be DFA by June. We coulda held on to him till july and traded him to a contender for a prospect just as bad and still saved 3 mil. I will miss Big Z, you can talk about all the negative parts of him but at least he had the drive to win.
Theo needs to admit this is a full rebuild season and prepare the fans for 100 losses. the convention will be a nightmare for him and tom if they dont
the convention happens
before the season.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
i know it does
… but some cubs fans still think the team might be good next year so THeo and company need to admit they are rebuilding so the fans dont get all butt hurt when the team sucks, i bet they lose 100 games and Tom is saying he is excited for next season lol
I'll bet you $50 to Cubs charities
that the Cubs don’t lose 100 games. In fact, I’ll bet you that they don’t lose 90 games.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec for charity ref
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 5, 2012 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
Wow, I'm pretty tempted to take the 90 loss bet.
I don’t know what you’re seeing on this team that will get them more than 70 wins. Talent wise, this team is much worse than last years
by Nunyabidness on Jan 5, 2012 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
well,
come on then.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
2006 Cubs went 66-96
which featured a rotation that included
-Z
-Maddux
-Marshall
-Hill
-Marmol/Rusch/Mateo/Prior
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2006.shtml
use that as your bet gauge fellas.
the power of 50 gajillion dollars
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
If he explodes in Miami or does something to get him suspended or whatnot...
Do the Cubs still have to pay him?
As soon as the trade goes thru
the Cubs are not paying him. He is on the Marlins payroll. The money gets paid to the Marlins.
im pretty sure the cubs pay the checks when they are do
… same happened with the mariners and carlos silva. the cubs dont just send a check for 15 million dollars, so if he gets banned the cubs will save some money
Incorrect
No matter how the Marlins and Cubs work out a payment plan, Z is on the Marlins payroll and whether or not he gets suspended, the Cubs would still be on the hook to pay the full amount to the Marlins.
MLB would not approve it otherwise.
Got a link that says that chief?
… theres no way a team could profit from another team paying a players salary if the player gets suspended.
The Cubs are NOT paying his salary
How many times do I have to say this?
They are paying an amount to the Marlins that is equal to his salary in order to facilitate the trade. Got it? Good.
If the Marlins fine Zambrano for damaging a Gatorade machine, the Cubs do not get a rebate.
Yes they are. Got it? Good!
… When Z is due his check on June 1, the Cubs will pay the Marlins their share of what he is owed and the Marlins will add wut they need and cut him a check. 15 million earns alot of interest and ur crazy to think the cubs just ship 15 million over when the trade happens. Z will be a liability on the Cubs balance sheet this season in the amount of 15 million dollars and the dollars are paid when they become due.
Got it? Good! How many times do I have to say this? lol
by chit0wn on Jan 5, 2012 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Clueless
You clearly do not understand how the transfer of contracts work. When the trade is approved, Z is under contract to the Marlins and the responsibility of paying his salary becomes theirs. This has nothing to do with the payment the Cubs make to the Marlins in order to get them to take over his contract.
You think the MLB players union would accept what you are suggesting? It would open the gates for all sorts of collusion and shenanagans. No way MLB would allow that.
I am done jousting with you, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Then why when A-rod opted out of his 1st contract
… did the Rangers save over 20 million?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3084583
Rodriguez loses the final $72 million in guaranteed salary in the record contract, which he signed with Texas before the 2001 season. The Yankees lose $21.3 million in remaining payments from the Rangers, a subsidy agreed to at the time of his 2004 trade. New York has said it would not attempt to re-sign A-Rod if he opted out.
that's different
from being suspended.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
the point is the cubs make the payments when they are due
… the rangers didnt send over the money to the yankees when A-rods trade went thru and neither will the cubs…they will pay their share when it is due, and if Z gets suspended, nothing will be due, so no money will be sent.
I don't think it works that way.
If a player opts out of his contract, he’s opting to not play. If a player is suspended, he’s being disciplined non-voluntarily. And given that Z just got back 24 days payment for his 30 day suspension, you think the Marlins would be willing to be on the hook for that 2.4 mill? The Cubs will pay if Z is suspended, I believe.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
i dont think theyd have to
but what evs, somewhere there gotta be rules written about money transfers this big. Imagine wut 15 million earns in interest over 12 months
I'm sure
it’s not a single $15 million check.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
regardless if your argument is valid or not...
it makes you look a lot less credible by using “wut” and what evs constantly, or ever for that matter.
So i you can give you can take it.
lol!
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
Brosef, AZJazzman is a TREMENDOUS douchebag, but he's right on this.
Zambrano isn’t receiving a check in the mail from the Cubs.
by Nunyabidness on Jan 5, 2012 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
No, the check is from the Marlins...
But the Marlins are receiving the same sized check simultaneously from the Cubs.
by bdlugz on Jan 5, 2012 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
… The cubs pay their share of his salary when it is earned, not all up front
Nah, I'm gonna have to call Azjazzman a douche whenever I feel the need.
You wanna ban me for that, go right ahead.
by Nunyabidness on Jan 5, 2012 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
A-Rod was signing a new contract with the Yankees
No parallel whatsoever.
The fact that you insert this into the discussion just underlines that you are clueless.
u miss the point about how the rangers were paying a piece
… of A-rods salary after they traded him to NY..when he opted out, it terminated the contract texas was still paying on which meant texas didnt have to pay anymore. By your rationale, texas wouldas sent all that money to the yanks and when he opted out, NY woulda pocketed the cash.
Clueless?? Go fuck urself u arrogant prick
You are just plain dumb
Don’t know why I bother.
If the Marlins decide to sign Zambrano to a new contract sometime during 2012, and they make one of the terms of the new contract to forgive remaining payments (if any) from the Cubs, then you have a point.
Otherwise, it is just more hot air from you.
carlos zambrano: causing chaos in chicago
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
All part of his sinister master plan?
"Juuuuuuussst a bit outside. He tried for the corner and missed..."
- Harry Doyle
by Rusty in Peoria on Jan 5, 2012 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
Get your popcorn
Although, I can’t say I’ll miss azjazzman once the banhammer comes down.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
chit0wn too
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 1:07 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, you're right, my bad.
However, you’re smart enough to not stoop to that level.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 8:58 PM CST up reply actions
Smarts go out the window with that guy
…. he doesn’t treat anyone w/ respect so why should anyone be nice to him?
I stand by wut i said. He’s not even a Cubs fan so fuck him
...

They have two liter bottles now? To think I spent all that time demanding a liter!
by Say Ramrod on Jan 5, 2012 5:48 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Wowie Zowie
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
wait.
The Cubs pay the MARLINS. The Marlins don’t sign that check over to Z. They deposit the money and pay Z out of their own funds. If they suspend Z, the Cubs are still on the hook for the payment, whether it’s a lump sum, a yearly deposit or a monthly payment.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
That depends on how this deal is worded...
We may never know unless it comes down to that. If the deal is “Cubs will pay 100% of Zambrano’s 2012 salary and the Marlins will pay 100% of Volstad’s salary,” the Cubs certainly have a leg to stand on if he is suspended without pay for a period of time.
And if you have a mortgage on your home...you are NOT making a payment on your house.
You are paying an amount to the lien holder that is equal to a quotient of the principle and time with interest.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 5, 2012 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
Don't you read? He doesn't NEED to support his claims!
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly right
We should know by now that his brilliance makes supporting his claims irrelevant. As we saw from his earlier statement about Z being a dependable 200 inning starter, AZ creates his own reality!
by bluekoolaide on Jan 5, 2012 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
I'm fairly certain that when a team trades a player...
…and agrees to pay a portion of the player’s remaining salary, the former team isn’t responsible for paying the salary until it’s paid to the player. From an accounting perspective, rather than Zambrano being considered a financial liability for 2012, the Marlins become that liability, and the financial obligation to the Marlins is paid down as Zambrano’s salary becomes due. In the age of deferred compensation and compound interest, there’s no way the Cubs would be foolish enough to cut a check for $15MM when they could pay it over time — Hence, The Time Value of Money.
If Zambrano is suspended without pay, I seriously doubt the Cubs would still be on the hook for whatever salary he loses. How could the Marlins justify demanding payment from the Cubs for salary that isn’t paid to the player?
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie" -- Tony Montana
by calicubfan on Jan 5, 2012 4:16 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Further.... I'd think owners
would be really hesitant to do any trades where they were “eating” some of the salary if they had to cut the check that day.
I mean… what happened today??
Theo called TR and said: "We’ve got a deal with Miami. We’re eating money, like you agreed, but getting a SP in return. So once the physicals are taken and it’s final……… I’m going to need you to get a cashier’s check, payable to: “Miami Marlins Baseball Club” in the amount of $15M. And they’ll cash it tomorrow."
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
I just love the comments of the past few days.
Every time Z blew up, these pages were full of “get rid of him.” Now, it seems that half of the comments are waxing nostalgic and wished the Cubs could have kept him.
What about Z makes some of us wistfully look back at his career? One damn no-hitter?
This is a great example of talent wasted. Good riddance.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jan 5, 2012 11:40 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
If you're all sentimental about it.... you can root for the Marlins
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
by SackMan on Jan 5, 2012 11:44 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
A few more details on the Zambrano deal, tweeted by Ken Rosenthal
Zambrano deal official. He waived no-trade and $19.25M opt for ’13 that would have kicked in if he finished in top 4 of Cy vote. MORE #MLB
Zambrano also settled grievance with #Cubs, getting back 24 days salary from 30-game suspension w/o pay in 2011 – almost $2.4M. MORE #MLB
Finally, Zambrano deal now includes $100K bonus if he wins Comeback Player of the Year in 2012. Free agent next winter. #Marlins #MLB
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Zambrano also settled grievance with #Cubs, getting back 24 days salary from 30-game suspension w/o pay in 2011 – almost $2.4M. MORE #MLB
the gift that keeps on giving
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
good for him.
any one of us would do the same.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
Good for him?
How is it good for him to get the equivalent of a paid vacation for abhorently bad behavior?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
positive reinforcement!
oh wait..
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
it's absolutely good for him.
to get money that he wasn’t going to? Cmon.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
Ok, yes, it is good for *him* to get that money
You seemed to be congratulating him, though.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 1:15 PM CST up reply actions
I am.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 1:17 PM CST up reply actions
Why? It's money he doesn't deserve.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
congratulations on acting like a four year old who didn't get the shiny toy he wanted!
way to go!
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
so?
if you had an opportunity to get 2.4 million dollars you didn’t deserve, wouldn’t you go for it?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
If someone stole 2.4 M from you, would you congratulate them?
What if they stole it from your neighbor?
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
I would think "steal" is slightly inaccurate. Zambrano is the Bernie Madoff of the Cubs
he “conned” them out of it.
YOU'RE INCONSISTENT!
Meatball
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
How about shortchange artists?
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
Nah, though I do applaud those dudes who have like three cups and a ball and they move the cups real fast and hide the ball.
Those guys are cool
How about Three Card Monte?
Where’s the bee? Where’s the bee?
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 3:07 PM CST up reply actions
How about open-air market vendors?
CD? DVD? Looka-looka! Cheepah for you!
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
how
exactly is it stealing? The Cubs said “we’re not paying you for 30 days”. Zambrano appealed, or whatever, and they settled on not getting paid for six days. The Cubs agreed to it. It’s not stealing when you agree to it.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
The analogy was imperfect
But you were ok with the “didn’t deserve part”.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
Or swindlers, apparently
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe, but only if I thought I deserved it.
OTOH, I wouldn’t think someone would congratulate me for it.
It's 106 miles to Chicago...
seriously?
“Here, I want to give you 2.4 million dollars to settle this dispute.” You wouldn’t take that?
He got his money. Good for him. Move on.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 10:00 PM CST up reply actions
There is a clear difference between what you're saying and what your arguing for.
No one is saying they wouldn’t do what Zambrano did. However, no one else would expect a round of applause when they did it, which you’re giving Zambrano for some reason.
by bdlugz on Jan 5, 2012 10:05 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I'm happy for him.
He’s going to a team that wants him, he’s getting paid all that money, he’s going to work for a friend, and he was able to convince his old job to give him $2.4 million (which, by the way, belongs to no one on this board).
Good for him.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 11:21 PM CST up reply actions
Do you not understand how commerce works?
which, by the way, belongs to no one on this board).
Normally I wouldn’t argue this ridiculous point, but you sucked me into it by saying it over and over. The Cubs got that $2.4 million from somewhere. Its a safe bet that the money came from revenue generated from – wait for it – ticket sales, television ad buys and the the like. In other words, the fans. They may not control that money any more, but they can certainly say they would have like to have seen their money spent in a different manner.
I’ve seen you make this bullshit argument before…often. It’s your last vestage, when you run out of anything else remotely compelling to argue about. It’s dumb and lazy every time.
by Nunyabidness on Jan 6, 2012 8:37 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
wow that sucks, it's like the bad icing on a bad cake the Cubs have to eat :(
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 5, 2012 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
Hmmmmm
So maybe the Cubs paid him for the days he would have been off but didn’t pay him for the six days he would have started during that 30-day period.
Harry Caray: Marshall is going back to LA to get cocaine for his injured foot.
Steve Stone: Harry, that’s Novocaine.
by Julio Zuleta's Voodoo on Jan 5, 2012 1:16 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
That cool $2.4 million should cover his moving costs.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Comeback Player of the Year Award
The Major League Baseball Comeback Player of the Year Award is presented by Major League Baseball (MLB) to the player who is judged to have “re-emerged on the baseball field during a given season.”
I would love to see the write-up for Z winning that award.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 5, 2012 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
re-emerged
like, say… a gopher?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
Most of the Comback write-ups speak of injuries
Zambrano’s would begin with “After being bat-crap crazy for the past 5 season, Carlos began 2012…”
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 5, 2012 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I just pictured Big Z digging and dragging himself out...
…from under the pitcher’s mound like a reanimated zombie.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
after being dead and buried for a while with the other zombies
“We stinks” is a very fitting comment.
wow - seeing how the tenor of the comments in this post has changed in the last hour or so...
…makes me think Z is getting the last laugh here.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Thinking the exact same thing.
It’s kinda like in Ghostbusters 2 when the guys get covered by that slime and all start turning on each other. We’ve got to get a hold of ourselves!
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
I'm making some popcorn.
Would you like some?
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
Please. Thank you.
I’ve got some homemade chocolate chip oatmeal cookies I can share in return.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
My, how civil.
Yes, yes, quite civil indeed.
Weekend contributor and official editorial lackey/waitstaff at Windy City Gridiron
If a people-avoiding gaming hermit is on Twitter, I should be too. Follow me!
by Steven Schweickert on Jan 5, 2012 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
Would you like some tea?
I have Earl Grey or Chamomile.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
Earl Grey please.
And might I perchance request a crumpet, if it would not be too much trouble?
Weekend contributor and official editorial lackey/waitstaff at Windy City Gridiron
If a people-avoiding gaming hermit is on Twitter, I should be too. Follow me!
by Steven Schweickert on Jan 5, 2012 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
How about a nice scone then?
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
That's good
Cranberry too
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
cinnamon chip and maple-nut from Starbucks....yum
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
For those bacon lovers out there
I saw some once with bacon and date. Sounds disgusting to me though.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
On occasion I get popcorn for my wife from the theatre
even though we have a popper at home -
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
Stop the emotion
Baseball is business. With this deal, the Cubs get a pitcher who is vastly inferior to Z — both with respect to career stats and potential over the next few years — at a whopping $15-mil price. New management had an opportunity to say, ‘OK, you have one more chance’ and give it a shot. I’m not impressed, unfortunately.
fool me once, shame on you
fool me twice, shame on me
fool me five times…
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
and you get to sleep with Jim Hendry's wife...
because you are Jim Hendry.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 5, 2012 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
One could say Volstad is vastly inferior to Z with respect to his career stats...
…even though it’s a pretty imperfect comparison given their respective ages and service time. But I don’t see how Volstad is vastly inferior going forward.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Honestly
I think Volstad has much more upside moving forward than Zambrano. I think Volstad will surprise a number of us.
So the 25 year old that posted identical stats to Zambrano last year
That is controlled for 3 more years as a cost controlled asset has no potential to outperform Z? Mmkay.
You realize Volstad has some pretty good stuff, good enough to be ranked the #40 prospect in baseball in 2007 and #58 in 2008 before he was called up to Miami.
Good trade
Not withstanding Zambrano’s issues, this move is in line with the earlier trades. Volstad a former first round pick (16th overall) is only 25. Stewart also a former ist round pick (10th overall) only 26. Weathers, age 26, Sappelt age 25 and 19 year old Ronald Torreyes all still quite young. I find the Torreyes pick up interesting.
The comps with others at Volstad age are quite impressive. Albeit he has not blossomed as of yet, there is much hope that with aging and expierence he will turn out to be a winner.
by wild bill on Jan 5, 2012 12:40 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Hey some common sense in a sea of insanity. All kidding aside, I really like what is happening here. They are getting players that very well could be hitting their prime years of their career.
If you look at both Volstad and Stewart, their comps for other players at their age are pretty impressive. I understand neither one has really taken the league by storm. But they have at minimum hung around made the big leagues and hopefully they will take it to the next level with the Cubs.
OT: Anyone playing SWTOR?
Emelie? Dan?
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 1:01 PM CST reply actions
Star Wars: the Old Republic.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
Volstad
I am a Cub fan living in Palm Beach Gardens FL Watched Volstad pitch in H. S. and with the Marlin This is a steal 95 mph fastball Good sinker this kid can be GREAT
He went to Notre Dame?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 5, 2012 2:23 PM CST up reply actions
Update: The Oz Man Cometh
Gordon Twittermeyer just tweeted a few interesting notes on the trade. Not surprisingly, Ozzie was heavily involved:
Marlins prez on getting Z: “Ozzie was a major force in this trade. …”
“We went into this thing with our eyes open. A lot of those concerns were eased by his relatshp w/ Ozzie.”
Said Ozzie pitched possibility since end of season. Marlins started talking with Cubs in November about deal.
So…say what you want about Ozzie but, for better or worse, he helped get this done.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
That help cements my opinion of him as one hell of an idiot.
by Nunyabidness on Jan 5, 2012 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Here, I'll contribute something not trollish-
This is a fun column by Rosenthal on Ozzie.
by South Side Expat on Jan 5, 2012 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
He gets in a really good shot at Ozzie.
by South Side Expat on Jan 5, 2012 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah I don't buy it, I'm willing to be you're trying to rickroll me
and this is one of those “Isn’t Ozzie fun?” columns
Gotta give Robo-thal credit...
…that is a pretty creative twist he put on his column.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Big Z can never be replaced!!!
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I guess it's not surprising ...
that the Zambrano trade thread would get kinda nasty. Appropriate.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
LAY OFF EG UNLESS YOU WANT A KNUCKLE SANDWICH ON THE HOUSE, BRO
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 2:38 PM CST up reply actions
LOL.
You guys just cracked me up.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I need to start posting often again.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
Just call shoemile
“Scut Farkus”
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
I thought South Side Expat was the troll ...
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Al.
Duh.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Be sure to drink your Ovaltine, Al.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHDDDDGGGGEEE
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Only I didn't say, "FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHDDDDGGGGEEE "
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
Can I be the leg lamp?
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Done and done.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Why?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Because Al is the Dad, the other Blogger for this site should be the mom
Plus, Josh did tell me today to stop calling people names, and then jammed a bar of soap in my mouth.
Ah.
Can I be the little brother? That way, I could point and laugh at you in the bunny suit.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Who is the kid in the Amelia Earhart outfit?
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
Damn you, shoe
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
Is that the one that likes the Wizard of Oz?
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
And Santa
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
I want to be the guy who tells Ralphie to go to the back of the line
He’s also the story’s narrator, Jean Shepherd.
Yeah, but you'll be stuck on the ground...
…in the snowsuit, too.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
I usually am.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
You eat like a little piggy too.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
Oink, oink, oink.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Aw snap
Nunya is going to go blind from soap poisoning.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Jan 5, 2012 3:11 PM CST up reply actions
I'll just shut him off to save electricity.
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
Is half Greek close enough?
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
according to free translation
εύθραυστη
♪ He held me very tight under stars so bright and whispered darlin' "Who do you love tonight?" I told him "baseball, baseball...." ♫
What an interesting idea, uber!
I appreciate your insight!
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
by elgato on Jan 5, 2012 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What a jovial man you are, Nunya!
And I do love meatballs! Are you offering us some?
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
You do have a full and handsome mustache, Nunya!
You must have good genes!
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I've heard good things!
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
TOO MUCH CIVILITY
ME ANGRY
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
Anger is healthy, Jesus.
To your health!
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
REBUILD MAKE ME ANGRY. ME WANT THIS GUY

Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
"Why can't I get a 10-year deal?!"
“I WANT A 10-YEAR DEAL!!!”
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
I love how he's all
HULK SMASH one second and then it’s almost “look at the fine workmanship on this bat!”
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
"Yessss....we loves my bat.... my precious.... yessss"
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I liked when
he tried to beat up the bench with his butt.
Alas.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 2:50 PM CST up reply actions
So, because I'm Italian I should like meatballs?
Methinks it’s a personal attack1!1
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
You, shoe and el are groupthinking
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 3:06 PM CST up reply actions
This isn't Rome!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jan 5, 2012 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
Although Naples is smaller
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 3:08 PM CST up reply actions
Rec'd
The most perfect post in over 2000 comments.
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jan 6, 2012 1:06 AM CST up reply actions
Here's the thing
If Zambrano had been beset by physical problems not mental problems his career would we be so quick to say good riddance?
I believe he might have an actual illness and if he does it is no different than a player having his career ruined or damaged by a bad knee.
The problem is a bad leg is easy to find on an xray or MRI. Surgery is done and in time he’s back.
I hear ridiculous saying the Cubs couldn’t win with him. Well he was part of more winning than any Cub besides Kerry Wood this half of this century. 3 division titles and 2 other plus 500 seasons. But do we hear the Cubs couldn’t win with fan favorites Sandberg or Grace?
As far as Kaplan and such claiming players tell them these things. Anonomous players saying things behind a teammates back. Real classy folks.
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
Nah.
I bet it’s Dempster.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Is it any more classy than showing up your teammates on the field...
…fighting them in the dugout or walking out on them completely?
I’m sorry but the idea that Z gets a mulligan for all of his terrible behavior based on the idea that he has some kind of mental problem just doesn’t cut it for me. When I look at Z I see an overgrown man child who’s been enabled way too long by management, his agent, etc.
I don't disagree with you.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
some people have mental problems.
some people are just idiots. I feel as though Zambrano is one of the idiots.
So i you can give you can take it.
No, I don't agree with this.
I do think Z has some psychological issues. He was asked to go to anger management in 2009, for example. There could have been more, we don’t know.
It’s clear that those problems are not under control.
Join us for complete MLB coverage at SB Nation's Baseball Nation
Maybe he has legitmate psychological issues and maybe he doesn't...
…none of us can really know for sure. But no matter what the reasons are, at what point does the individual have to take some responsibility for his own situation? Z., had ample opportunity to do this and didn’t. Luckily, Theo seemed to figure this out a lot more quickly than previous regimes did.
And please
And please everyone. If he was winning 20 a season we wouldn’t care what else he did.
But on the flip side I think part of his problem is frustration with himself so he wouldn’t be as frustrated if he was winning.
Nothing happens unless it's first a dream
Well, that makes it right
If he was winning 20 a season we wouldn’t care what else he did.
Aside from the fact that this isn’t true. There were a handful of posters calling him out on this crap when he was decent. And those posters got ripped on by another handful.
And has been documented, he got on TEAMMATES, not just himself.
Step Two: Develop an organizational plan
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 5, 2012 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
its amazing
how people put sound effects into letters..
not the letters i would have chosen but funny none the less
by RIP Slim on Jan 5, 2012 3:11 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Not sure if this has been posted yet.
http://twitter.com/#!/CSNMooney/status/155026419511066625
Theo: “Every player that I talked to articulated to me that Carlos had really violated their trust.”
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
BECAUSE HE WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO WANTED TO WIN!!!!
Why don’t you meatballs understand this?
by Nunyabidness on Jan 5, 2012 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's funny ...
I remember some posters, a few months back, saying how professional baseball players would have no problem accepting Zambrano back because it would be the best thing for the team, or something.
I suppose Theo could be ginning up what players said, but still …
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
And if he's already worrying about spinning stuff to make himself (or his actions) look better...
…then we definitely have the wrong guy for the job.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
There's lying ...
and there’s amping something up, you know? And I’m not saying Theo’s lying.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I can't imagine
he’d lie about it.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 4:12 PM CST up reply actions
I like me some meatballs
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 5, 2012 4:38 PM CST up reply actions
i like how theo says this stuff after he trades the guy
not before
he’s soooo anti-hendry
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
First Michele Bachmann and now Carlos Zambrano...
I can’t stop crying.
Some day. Maybe.
by WBdogs1 on Jan 5, 2012 3:47 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
rofl
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 4:12 PM CST up reply actions
Even though you mentioned a politician here..
…. that was funny.
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sigh
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 5, 2012 4:56 PM CST up reply actions
Jon Stewart approves.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
that was a great opening
watched it twice
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
That's a matched pair of crazy bookends right there
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 6, 2012 8:53 AM CST up reply actions
So long Z
Thanks for the memories; good and bad!
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie" -- Tony Montana
good riddance
I think this will work out better for both sides, zambrano and the cubs. I believe zambrano will pitch much better next year and have zero outbursts. Why? Because I think his buddy ozzie is the only manager in the league that can handle him.
As for the cubs I think this proves that this is theo’s team and this organization will operate differently in the future. No more beer and chicken days for theo, this is a new team to him and he wants to have control over the players and their actions.
My Lord $30,000,000 for Albert Pujols' services when hes 41 years of age.
Wow.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
pujols got the Jim Hendry Special
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 5, 2012 5:09 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, but let's just say he becomes a hitting instructor... he's already getting paid the $1 million and has a signed contract.
I’d assume that $1 million is worth a hell of a lot less in 2032 than it is today. Plus if he doesn’t work for the Angels they don’t have to pay him.
The way they wrote the contract is genius, actually. It gives them a lot of outs, and it also has the opportunity to have money paid to Pujols not count against the luxury tax. I think the Yankees and other major market teams will take a VERY hard look at these types of agreements in the coming years.
Not many hitting
instructors will be getting 10 year/10 mil contracts, even in 2032.
My big compliment to Carlos......
I have always appreciated the way Big Z hustled to first base when he hit a ground ball to the infield. In many cases, that seems to be a lost art.
Theo hit it spot on when he said even if Zambrano worked out this year he’d still be a free agent. Unfortunately Hendry’s hands were tied because he gave Big Z the contract and probably couldn’t justify dumping him and eating the money. Great move though and oddly saves a little money. I’m a little nervous though because I’m not sure if we even have someone who can replace what little Z has contributed as of late. Now we all have to pray to whatever it is we believe in that Theo can get rid of our left fielder.
In essence, that’s what the players did with their collective “no confidence” vote. Ryan Dempster, Kerry Wood, Matt Garza and Marlon Byrd were among the players Epstein polled on Zambrano, and the verdict was unanimous.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-0106-cubs-chicago—20120106,0,4944992.story?track=rss
i’m interested to hear what garza specifically said about z; he seems like a guy that wouldn’t hold anything back
Just wee-un.
Interesting that he polled Byrd.
That likely means Byrd is staying.
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No more Dave Duncan
https://twitter.com/JoeStrauss/status/155105522620698628
Unfortunately it’s for family reasons, but this helps the Cubs.
I hate that this is the reason he has to step down....
But I’m so glad he’s not the Cards pitching coach anymore.
Man that sucks.
Talk about one of the best. Every year that man molds a pitching staff that rivals everybody’s and he usually does it out of leftovers, scraps, and has beens.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Carlos, Ozzie and Hanley Ramirez on the same team.
One thing for sure is that the Miami Marlins won’t be boring this year.
Epstein weighs in...
All but says that this is a trade for one year of Z versus three years of cost controlled Volstad and hope for upside.
Finally, a good GM for my favorite team.
It's 106 miles to Chicago...
I love calculus
“The calculus became for us: Would we rather spend that $18 million on one season of Carlos and try to make it work with him here?” Epstein said. “In the best case scenario even if it did work, he’d be leaving at the end of the year as a free agent. Or, if we were going to have to spend that money anyway as a sum (sp sunk?) cost, would we rather spend it on a 25-year-old that we can put in our rotation and control for three seasons? That made a lot of sense.”
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 5, 2012 9:32 PM CST up reply actions
I took a business calculus class in college
And the question on a test was regarding the value of land at X per acre, and it was A acres long, B acres wide, and had a river as a boundary that ran at an angle of delta to something stupid calculusy.
At the end of the day, I sat there and knew I had no shot at this one, so I simply wrote, “Why would anyone look at a lot of land that they had to figure out the acreage of?” I got half credit. I probably still failed that test though.
LOL
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 6, 2012 1:16 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think that makes alot of sense
He should have just said that too many bridges have been burned and he thinks the Cubs are better off cutting ties with Carlos Zambrano now. Then he could have gone-on to say that he’s excited to see what Chris Volstad can bring to the table.
Don’t know how to phrase it, but treating the $18 million as a sunk cost under a scenario where keeping Zambrano in 2012 would have worked seems contradictory. Or, inferring that the 3 years of being able to control Volstad is sensible, even though the first of those 3 years is going to cost the franchise $18 million, sounds kind of silly.
The chances of things working-out with Zambrano weren’t good and would have been even less because of wanting to deal him at the deadline.
by AboutTheCubs on Jan 5, 2012 11:21 PM CST up reply actions
Theo
didn’t want to make it about Z. He wanted to make it about the team, and the team getting better.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 11:23 PM CST up reply actions
For me, this is very bittersweet.
Z’s antics, unfortunately, have overshadowed his on-field flashes of brilliance. I was at the first start he made after punching Barrett in 2007, and that still is one of the best individual pitching performances I’ve ever seen. That being said, Z had far too many issues to count. And Al, I actually think you’re missing three of them—firstly, last year, when he called out the Cubs for playing poorly when it was more on the manager than on the Cubs, and back in 2007, when he came charging out of the dugout during Derrek Lee’s on-field fracas with Chris Young. I remember thinking Z must have been changing his belt. It was trailing behind him like a tail. And the third one was when he destroyed the Gatorade machine in the dugout.
The sad thing is, he had so much potential. He just lost his cool far too often. I will still think and remember the good things he did, but when anyone asks me to talk about Zambrano, the first thing I will think about is all the anger and tantrums he had. I wish this wasn’t the case, because of all the good things he did, but it’s true.
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 5, 2012 9:58 PM CST reply actions
One more reason to already like Chris Volstad
Not Kyle Farnsworth, but he was ready to go.

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
what will be really funny
is if Volstad talks to himself and beats up drink dispensers…
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 5, 2012 11:24 PM CST up reply actions
By him not being Kyle Farnsworth,
Does that mean he has never punched a fan in the locker room?
Author at Acme Packing Company, SB Nation's Green Bay Packers blog.
Sign Prince Fielder!
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 6, 2012 1:11 AM CST up reply actions
friendly wager
who you got first
volstad and nyjer fight
or
Z and Ozzie fight
by RIP Slim on Jan 6, 2012 3:53 AM CST via Android app reply actions
we all
knew big z could’nt come back.it was time and everyone knew it. thanks to ozzy because no one else in baseball would take this guy.good luck z it was never dull i will say that.and theo you’re certainly a far cry from jim hendry.

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