Question: Should the Cubs trade Castro for pitching?
by nickler on Jan 7, 2012 1:18 PM CST
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As always, thank you in advance for your wisdom.
While I admit that many of you would fervently disagree, please do refrain from simply flaming the poster or responding "NO, next question."
Castro's defense has been terrible. While many position players "grow" into their power or plate discipline, I cannot remember many who would "grow" into their defensive positions. They are typically capable at that position throughout their development, particularly when one considers shortstops. When I was in Baltimore, Cal Ripken once stated that being a shortstop took a tremendous amount of mental exertion, that he had to think with each pitch and each play, and that by the end of the game he would feel mentally exhausted. I simply can't see this coming from the same person who will space out and eat sunflower seeds in the middle of a play. It is not the one incident. It is the underlying personality of someone who would do that.
Realistically, then, Castro might be best suited as a 2B, perhaps a Robinson Cano type. The question, then, is whether a superb hitting 2B is worth trading for a boatload of pitching prospects, something this team desperately needs especially with the loss of Cashner.
It would seem that Castro embodies what Epstein and Hoyer do not like: poor defense, not-so-great OBP, and questionable character. These are foundations that they had specifically mentioned the Cubs were going to build upon. The question is whether Castro has killed his trade value with the incidents which transpired. Aside from that, it would seem that Castro's value is at it's all time highest, and if we WERE going to trade him now would be the time, before he starts slumping.
Also, it seems that Epstein and Hoyer are clearly not very impressed with Hendry's draft picks. Once again, especially with pitching a dire need for this team, it would stand to reason that a player of his caliber be traded to a team with a surplus of talented pitching prospects.
A bunch of us have been guessing that Castro would be the next to go-- to the Rays or Angels-- for a nice haul of young pitching. Please note I am NOT saying we should "dump" Castro. He has enormous potential and is cost controlled for many years. As with people's suggestions with trading Garza, the return would have to be tremendous with can't-miss pitching prospects for this to be reasonable. There are so many holes with this team, though, that if you could fill two or three in exchange for one player, it might be reasonable.
So what do you think. It is nonsense to consider trading Castro under any circumstances, and do you think he will quickly become an outstanding defensive shortstop? Or do you continue on with the same line of thinking that we have seen in the past several days, and trade while the value is at its highest?
Even as early as a couple years ago, posters had mentioned that Soto and Marmol were two players who, under any circumstances could NOT be traded.
Thanks again for your wisdom and your comments as always!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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You walk on water one time...
and you suddenly think you know everything.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 7, 2012 7:58 PM CST up reply actions
I think it was the water into wine
that really put the chip on his shoulder
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
ui saw a statue of him at a tstore yesterday
he had a napsack and a sign being held in his other hand which said “stop worrying, i am only here to find a wife this time”
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
", I cannot remember many who would "grow" into their defensive positions"
this is such nonsense.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
Templeton
comes to mind. I recall him being a butcher at SS for a couple years. He ended up being a pretty good SS.
Ozzie Smith is another
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 8, 2012 9:15 AM CST up reply actions
Having said that
This is where Castro reminds me some of Templeton. Unlike Smith when he broke in, Templeton broke in as a hitrer first. Much like Castro, hitter first. Castro really needs to focus and work hard to improve his field play.
He has the tools. This is another reason I am excited about the new regime. I think Castro will learn and fair better with the new crop of coaches and leadership the Cubs have.
So no, currently trading him is not an option.
i think this is what it boils down to if a trade were considered...
…if the Cubs see Castro as a guy who will develop and put in the wrok then he fits their philosophy innterms of youth and physical talent. if they have doubts about his work ethic, serious doubts, and they think the market will over pay for him, two big ifs, then they might move him. there’s no rush here, they should give him time to develop and get a better feel for what they have. he’d be a nice test for whether the new regime can improve player development.
Yes
it really is up to Castro to be able to commit and understand what it will take to improve. But at some point it is discovered that he does not have the fortitute to commit, at that time consideration of moving him will take place.
Keep in mind this could be a season or three, but in the meantime no on moving him.
It's not that unusual to become a better dedender....
…through hard work and coaching. One that comes to mind for me is Matt Williams. He wasn’t too slick at thrid butr worked relentlessly with some sort of ping pong paddle strapped to his hands drill and hended up being exceptional.
Pujols was a man without a country defensively when he came up. They had him at third—left and finally first.
If you have the hand eye working for you (and someone who leads the NL in hits at age 21 surely does) you can physically make your self better. I’m wary of Stralin and flames him here last year on that Sunday night game when he showed the country the epitome of an indifferent defender; so I get what you mean by all this.
I assume TheoJed will give him through 2012 to show he can get his head on straight. I surely hope that he does. Dale Svuem is also getting paid to help facilitate this sort of thing too.
"God, I always said I would never bother you about baseball, but if you could make this pain in my shoulder stop for ten minutes, I would really appreciate it."
Billy Chapel
No if only Svuem can teach me to type (or proofread)
"God, I always said I would never bother you about baseball, but if you could make this pain in my shoulder stop for ten minutes, I would really appreciate it."
Billy Chapel
Schmidt and Brett, too.
Butchers early in their careers, masters later. It not too uncommon for young SS or 3B to have a lot of errors early in their careers.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Jan 9, 2012 9:46 PM CST up reply actions
it also is not uncommon
for a player not to become a gold glove player when they start their career with bad fielding. I am not going to say that Castro wont improve, but it is also not a guarantee he will
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Find me players who have never improved their fielding from when they were 21 until their prime
I don’t think anyone is saying Castro is a guaranteed gold glover at SS, but to say it’s possible this is the best he gets is ignoring the fact that no one peaks defensively at 21.
i never said he wont
but i also dont see how people can compare him to some that they have, and talk as if it is a given that he will improve to their level. Catro is a good player, but he has more than one area where he needs to improve to be the elite player people have him dubbed to be.
lower his k’s
take walks
fielding
throwing
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Lower his Ks?
He has a 13.4 K% in the majors at 21 years old. He hit over .300 with under 100 Ks.
I agree he needs to raise his walks, I agree, but it’s not like he’s shown an inability in the past.
As far as fielding/throwing… that’s exactly what we were discussing. He will improve with time. How much he’ll improve is hard to say, but he will certainly improve with seasoning.
we hope he im[proves
the same “he will improve he is young” argument has been made for other players time and time again, and sometimes they do, other times they dont. not too long ago it was “Vitters will improve, he is young” not it has changed to “Castro will improve, he is young”
I am not anti-Castro, and I do hope he does improve, but i also am not above moving him for the right package (same as we have been saying about Garza)
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
my point is the same reasoning is being used
for why he will improve “he is young”
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
You might be using the same reasoning...
I’ve never heard anyone else argue that plate discipline will be improved with age.
actually here are two (and I am sure there are many more)
links on BCB where you can see comments about how he is young and….
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2011/11/26/2587812/nice-vitters-piece
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2011/10/4/2469781/vitters-homers-twice-in-first-afl-game
Dont get me wrong, I am not wishing either of them to fail, I would love to see them both hoisting a few WS trophies at 1060 W Addision.
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
If you don't see the differences I really can't explain it to you.
I’ll just walk away from this one.
i never said it was the same either
I am just saying that the “he is young” is not going to convince me that his defense is going to become stellar, et al. I love how i can make a simple comment and you can read so much into what i said, and imply things i never said
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
Did you miss Tim's epic meltdown where he quit BCB...
over a Castro-related thread he started?
Just leave him be on this one.
D98 mistaken, a hyperbole as in a funny or revisionism as in trying to make a new fact to confirm a prejudice
by Kansas25 on Jan 11, 2012 7:25 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
it is kinda sad
i had some colorful conversations with elgato and shoemile both on here and via email, yet the three of us can move on. for some reason, you cannot move on, choose to live in the past while having to try and stir shit at every chance. maybe you should move on as well and add to the conversation instead of try and start shit for no apparent reason
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
The fact...
you feel the need to communicate via email to move past an internet message board self-combustion makes me warm inside. It also makes me giggle you asked Al to shut down your account because some meanies on the internet made you upset.
FWIW, I’m not randomly following your posts and bringing it up. If Favre can retire and un-retire, then so be it Cubbie-Tim can also! I only mentioned it to another poster who was trying to argue with you about Castro. You have…strong feelings on the subject. There isn’t much point in rationally arguing with you about it. I found it relevant.
D98 mistaken, a hyperbole as in a funny or revisionism as in trying to make a new fact to confirm a prejudice
by Kansas25 on Jan 11, 2012 9:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd rather not have this devolve into personal attacks.
bdlugz said he’d walk away. It really wasn’t appropriate to bring up an unrelated past thread.
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Hmmm,
but i also dont see how people can compare him to some that they have, and talk as if it is a given that he will improve to their level.
but you seem quite comfortable with people assuming he will not ever become a competent fielder, that is the real problem. I am not assuming he will be a good fielder, I am saying it is absurdly premature to assume he won’t and talk about moving him to another position.
Get it now?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 11, 2012 8:20 AM CST up reply actions
never said that
i have said he needs to work and i hope he can
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
ah, now the backtracking begins
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 12, 2012 7:35 AM CST up reply actions
Mark Grace was an awful fielder when he came up
Step Three: Patience. The plan is in place.
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 10, 2012 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
Castro is TWENTY ONE
I don’t want to flame you on this one, because after yesterday’s story I understand your concern. However, there is still a lot we don’t know about the issue & if I am guessing this was a poor judgment misunderstanding by both parties and the accuser will get a settlement. Castro is young, speaks little English, and is probably starstruck by his own fame and doesn’t fully realize the implications.
Now to Castro on the field: he is arguably one of the 5 most valuable assets in all of baseball. We are talking about a 21 year-old leading the NL in hits AND going 10/20 AND striking out under 100 times in his FIRST FULL SEASON.
For comparison, Jeter played 15 games in MLB when he was 21. at 19 (when Castro was called up last year) Jeter was in A-ball. People just do not realize how freaking RARE a player with Starlin’s potential is. Theo realizes it, and I believe he wants him here very strongly for years to come.
I hope that the assault situation gets cleared up soon, and i expect Castro to apologize for his behavior, exhibit contrition, and for us as fans to find catharsis before Opening Day. This kid is still our present & future SS.
"I'll play any day. I don't care if I'm 0-for-30, playing baseball is my PASSION. I'll go out and play." - Geo Soto
by CubbyBlues on Jan 7, 2012 1:40 PM CST reply actions 15 recs
BOOM, HEADSHOT.
Now to Castro on the field: he is arguably one of the 5 most valuable assets in all of baseball. We are talking about a 21 year-old leading the NL in hits AND going 10/20 AND striking out under 100 times in his FIRST FULL SEASON.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
This needs to be a special shade of green for extra awesomeness
fans who are disappointed that Castro’s defense is not gold glove right now and those who assume he cannot or will not improve … really? He;’s 21!
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 7, 2012 6:05 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I totally haven't improved at much since I was 21.
Starlin Castro is already the best “Hitter” on the Chicago Cubs…some of that is because of how shitty the Chicago Cubs are right now, but most of it is because Starlin Castro is super awesome at hitting baseballs. This guy has the thing you can’t teach…talent…the single biggest deficit this organization has had for most of the Jim Hendry Era. ALSO HE’S GOT AT LEAST ANOTHER 12 YEARS OF PRODUCTIVE BASEBALL LEFT IN HIM. I cannot recall the last true talented star the Chicago Cubs drafted and developed on their own besides Mark Grace.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 7, 2012 8:11 PM CST up reply actions
I am not against moving him for a good package
i said this during last season as well. He is a good player no doubt, but his errors (mental and physical) along with not being able to take a pitch drives me nuts. Dont get me wrong, I am not looking to just dump him for nothing, as he could correct his mistakes and really become something special
Q: Why did Theo Epstein cross the road?
A: To Dump Garza
My argument is
He already is something very special. It is nearly unheard of to see players at his age with such a great skillset and in MLB. Defense does improve over time, because it is as much mental maturity as it is physical ability & he already has the physical tools to be plus on defense.
"I'll play any day. I don't care if I'm 0-for-30, playing baseball is my PASSION. I'll go out and play." - Geo Soto
for the right package, yes
..but unless we somehow pull off a three way trade and receive matt moore AND jacob turner(or two pitchers of similair caliber and age), i dont think we should do it
castro is 21 years old, pair him and rizzo for the foreseeable future and i think we have two great young guys to build around
Don't forget BJax and Szczur
The powers that be are doing exactly what they said they would, build a team that can win for a long time. Add a pitching staff that is getting much younger with much upside and tons of money coming off the books and the future is looking much brighter.
I'll wait to see Szczur do something beyond low A
before listing him as part of a future nucleus.
John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?
Where to start?
A bunch of us have been guessing that Castro would be the next to go— to the Rays or Angels— for a nice haul of young pitching.
Who’s a ‘bunch of us’?
No one’s untouchable. But it makes sense to keep Castro unless an amazing return is possible.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
I haven't heard/seen really anyone "guess that Castro would be the next to go".
As with many of the rest… IMO to trade Castro you’d have to receive a ludicrous haul.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
If anything ...
the talk has been about a Castro/Rizzo/BJax nucleus.
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Not to mention...
…that we’ve already given the Rays one of our shortstops of the future.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
by daver on Jan 7, 2012 3:14 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
And we still have Junior Lake and Javier Baez waiting to take his spot
if his defense does not improve the next couple of years.
Lake and Baez?
The latter one profiles as a third baseman. The first one profiles as a relief pitcher.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 7, 2012 11:57 PM CST up reply actions
Oh come on
Lake has a great arm, and may end up a pitcher, but he could also quite easily put up an .800 OPS at AA as a 22-year-old with 40 SBs. Given the holes in his game, I think his ceiling is below all-star level but he could be a cromulent backup infielder/outfielder in the majors. Since he won’t hit enough for RF, third is the most likely outcome. However, I dont expect that to be for the Cubs.
Cromulent?
Nice word. After looking at his stats I think Castro will be the Cubs shortstop for a long time. Lake? Who knows? But that goes for all the prospects that we have, it is part of what makes baseball fun.
Lake is a brutal SS
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 8, 2012 9:16 AM CST up reply actions
Castro's defense.
The reason(s) Castro might “grow into” his defensive abilities is that the bulk of his errors are focus/mental errors. That surely can improve.
He has all of the physical capabilities to play SS at the major league level. He’ll throw a routine groundball into the dirt or stands… and on the next play throw someone out from the outfield grass.
But if Castro doesn’t start to clean up that part of his game in the next year or maybe two, then I would agree a position switch would be best.
"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."
by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST
i wouldn't trade castro .....
somewhere , sometime you have to start a foundation of young players and he is as good as any to start with . the cubs are just needing that one good trade for a pitcher and turner might be the one . i’m still hoping a garza for turner , smyly , and oliver gets done . with rizzo , jackson ,castro , hopefully soler and good pitchers like wood , turner , mcnutt ,smyly , and oliver to build around the cubs should be in good shape to hit the 2013 free agent class for a couple of starters .
The day
after he gets accused of sexual assault may not be the best time to trade him, if you believe in the whole “buy low, sell high” philosophy.
by tomas21 on Jan 7, 2012 2:18 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
agreed
offering him for trade now would be a big red flag for other GMs………the return wouldn’t be what he’s worth. PLus…….isn’t a 21 yr old cost controlled player leading the league in hits EXACTLY the kind of player Theo/Jed want a bunch of??
How many top flight starting pitchers are there? There's one top flight SS.
I’d rather have the guy that could be 1 of 2 than a guy who could be 1 of like 10.
Tom Brady. Nuff said.
Hm, I don't know about that.
Seems to me that finding/developing elite pitching is just as hard as finding/ developing a good shortstop. We’ve done one, now we have to do the other.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
by daver on Jan 7, 2012 3:27 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Castro stays.
Now, if Theo says this next week, then he’ll be traded.
I am very interested in what our new FO and Sveum can do with a 21yo youngster. I think he can be really great with a little more mental maturity. He could have used some of that (or a better wingman) in September.
200 + hits. I’d like him to stay please.
Its not the Sveum ol' song.
Castro is potentially a Hall of Famer
You don’t trade him unless you have to. If he goes to the big house, then you cut ties with him, but I seriously doubt that is going to happen.
Castro is the one high ceiling guy that you build around.
OK...if saying he's only 21 and it's too soon to give up on him due to his defense...
…then saying he’s a potential Hall of Famer is a bit too soon also…isn’t it?
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"The Rebuild of 2012: And The Wait Goes On"
Perhaps
But when you look at the number of players who have hit over .300 in two full seasons before they turn 22 . . .well, there are a lot of Hall of Famers on that list. Not all of them are, but enough that I think you can say “potential.”
by Josh Timmers on Jan 8, 2012 12:00 AM CST up reply actions
Not as bad of a question as it seems on the surface.. but...
The real reason to keep castro is that, as rare as top of the rotation pitching is in this league, ss/2b who can hit is even more rare. However, all things being equal – awesome pitching is better than what Castro Brings. But Castro probably won’t bring enough in return to fill the hole he would leave behind. I say keep him.
It would seem that Castro embodies what Epstein and Hoyer do not like: poor defense, not-so-great OBP, and questionable character
"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." Carl Sagan
by Cubbiegoon on Jan 7, 2012 5:24 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
This is a legitimate question and the answer is what is the return
First, is Castro a legitimate HOF player? If he is than the price is extraordinarily high as in a return of 2-3 legitimate All Star caliber players. Some have used Jeter as a comparison (his defense) and Jeter is a legitimate HOF player. Castro to be in that category has to show a vast improvement in all facets of his game.
Now he may be a HOF player presently in the wrong position. Braun was in that position.
There in lies the crux, I think the Cubs actually traded away their legitimate defensive SS last year for Garza. Therefore the next question is whether Lake is better defensively than Castro.
Meaning I think Castro should be moved to 2B—-this year and Barney put a SS where the Cubs platoon—-barring nothing changes in the middle infield options. Will this reduce Castro’s defensive liabilities? His advanced field was -8.7 but his composite WAR was 3.4…
But like the Brock trade, the question is what you get in return.
A friend once told me: "I don't buy the idea that a team learns anything from a loss, the only thing they learn is how to lose games."---Knight
lake is a bigger defensive mess than castro
actually, he’s just a big mess in everything associated with baseball
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 7, 2012 5:40 PM CST up reply actions
Ivy I try to read all of your posts, but this may be one of the most...er, preposterous:
First, is Castro a legitimate HOF player? If he is than the price is extraordinarily high as in a return of 2-3 legitimate All Star caliber players.
Can you think of ANY trade in MLB history that included a 1-for-3 that one team receiving three all-stars?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Randy Johnson trade to the astros
The Mariners got Freddy Garcia and Carlos Guillen and John Halama.
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jan 7, 2012 6:29 PM CST up reply actions
John Halama never made the All-Star team.
He was a decent #4 starter for a few years.
But Seattle definitely got value in return for Johnson.
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That trade made the mariners one of the best baseball teams for a few years.
You are clearly just saying things to say them.
Also halama was the can’t miss propects of that trade.
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jan 7, 2012 11:37 PM CST up reply actions
I'm "saying things just to say them"?
You answered the original question by naming a three-for-one trade.
One of the players was never an All-Star. So that trade doesn’t qualify for the OP’s question.
Try not to be snarky just to be snarky.
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You fell for it.
He was yanking your chain… had to be.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jan 8, 2012 5:42 AM CST up reply actions
I guess.
Wasn’t a very good yank, then.
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That's not a comparable.
Randy Johnson was clearly one of the 3 greatest pitchers in the league from the time he entered in 1988 – 1998, when he was traded to Houston. He was already a HOFer, or pretty damn close, before his 4 straight seasons of 8-ish WAR. If you’re trading for a guy like that you damn better be giving up some all-stars.
Castro is 21 and has 283 career games. You don’t trade 3 all-stars for that.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I don't think Johnson was all that amazing until about 5 seasons in. I remember seeing
him pitch against the Cubs when he was on Montreal and he was horrible. By ’93 or ’94 he had become a top pitcher.
93...
wasn’t too bad in 92 and threw a no-no in 91. Would have won a Cy Young in 93 if it weren’t for voters giving McDowell love because they screwed up the year before giving it to Eckersley.
--------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Jan 8, 2012 5:54 AM CST up reply actions
Here's one that's a bit closer - Bartolo Colon for Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore and Brandon Phillips
there were a couple bit players involved (I think Lee Stevens went to the Expos as well) but those were the main pieces. Granted, Colon was a little more established than Castro, but certainly not as far along in a HoF career as the Big Unit.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jan 8, 2012 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Yes
But it was also a weird situation where Omar Minaya was operating under the assumption that the Expos would be disbanded at the end of the year. Plus, it was Omar Minaya.
I just tried to rec you, but I think I flagged you, Ken.
I’m gonna keep it. :)
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Moving Castro to 2B is a really bad idea based on a ridiculous assumption
that Castro either cannot or will not improve defensively.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 7, 2012 6:07 PM CST up reply actions
Is Castro a legitimate HOF player?
Let’s look at the Hall of Fame Monitor. In the 2012 Bill James Handbook, players are listed by year of birth, youngest to oldest. Castro is the youngest player listed at birth year 1990. His Hall of Fame Monitor is already at 11 and he has only 1.15 years of MLB service. Prince Fielder, 6 years older than Castro, sits at 37.
Due to his very young age in MLB and his talent, Castro have a very good chance to become a HOFer. He has time to accumulate the characteristic stats of a HOFer.
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 10, 2012 10:55 PM CST up reply actions
No, he's 21 and this is a stupid idea.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jan 7, 2012 5:37 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Haha this is true
The defense argument isn’t fair because he is still developing rapidly. If Theo, Dale, and company thought he was a liability at SS they would move him. He has the potential to be great on defense, we’ve seen glimpses. Obviously his play there will grow exponentially over the years. You don’t trade away a 21 year old that has the potential to win the batting title the first year he can legally consume alcohol
by CastroRakesOnTheReg on Jan 7, 2012 6:09 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
For now they won't trade him
The two negatives mentioned are his defense and his reputation. The positives are his offense and his low payroll cost. They’re all moving targets.
As mentioned, a trade would have to yield a boat load of low cost talent. The years of team control would also have to be more than Castro’s. Talking about something extremely unlikely.
My guess is that he won’t ever be a good defensive SS. He might incrementally improve though. Not sure what would be accomplished by moving him to another field position.
Nope.........
If I recall discussion on this before, Jeter had similar fielding stats at the same age as Castro…….
Castro had 29 errors in his age 21 season with playing 158 games.
Jeter was still in AAA at 21 and had a 29 errors in 123 games. Then called up for 15 games for 2 more errors. That makes Jeter 31 errors in 138 games. I believe if Castro focuses he’ll get his error total to just about 20 or lower. He may start making better throws knowing he can’t just toss it wildly towards 1B and expect everything to be picked like Lee/Pena could do.
If it turns out that he did rape a woman
some of us will wish we never heard his name.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
nickler, please tell me that you had been formulating this fanpost for awhile now...
…and that you were going to post it today anyway, regardless of what came to light yesterday.
Because if not… well, apparently you’re not doing anything with all the wisdom you keep asking us for.
Oh, and you probably need to work on your timing a bit more.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Some basis for comparison:
Elvis Andrus’ runs saved per John Dewan’s Fielding Bible:
2009: +11
2010: +1
2011: +11
Castro:
2010: +2
2011: -11
Too early to tell but if Castro continues to regress defensively, management will no doubt consider a shift to 2B.
I think if they wait until he's actually in jail
they might be able to get even less for him than they could today.
Do you go to family funerals and ask
So, when is the Will reading?
"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum
Did anyone come to think that playing next to Aramis Ramirez couldn't have helped?
I mean honestly, Ramirez was a lazy fielder who couldn’t have helped Castro. Especially with Castro’s amazing range picking up Ramirez’ garbage and trying to make plays out of it.
Tom Brady. Nuff said.
I think this has some merit to it.
Hard to measure but I want to agree with you.
I can’t find a source, but I can recall a story about how certain Cubs (Ramirez, Zambrano) kept a small, Latin click in the clubhouse that was causing problems. There was a concern about how this could effect young Castro. Can anyone expound upon this?
Now this is no longer the case, and I’m glad for it. I hope Castro kicks ass in ’12.
Its not the Sveum ol' song.
Holy Cow!
Maybe I was talking about some sort of jazz beat, hmm?
As a guy who gets peeved over lose vs loose, and moot vs mute, I actually feel a little sheepish for my error. Sheepish, not goat-ish.
Its not the Sveum ol' song.
Just teasing
Following a comment where another poster wrote a short treatise on the error of “could of.”
that was a fanpost on here
and turned out to BS
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Jan 8, 2012 12:05 AM CST up reply actions
That wasn't just a fanshot.
Al wrote a front page article.
by mic on Jan 8, 2012 8:37 AM CST up reply actions
Bad defense isn't the f**king whooping cough
You’re not going to catch it just by being near it.
by Wreckard on Jan 7, 2012 11:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually, if you've ever played sports
You’ll have to admit that good play and bad play can be contagious. Also, it could be possible with Ramirez being so bad defensively, Castro pushed himself too hard to make up for that and made errors from trying to do too much – which is what I saw for the most part.
Derek Jeter had 131 errors in the minors
29 of them in his age 21 season.
Reyes had 29 in his age 19 season.
Defense can be learned.
Especially when the problem is poor judgment, not poor skills. Anecdotally,it seems like most of Castro’s errors are from rushing himself trying to make really difficult plays, not from have poor hands.
He makes some mistakes on routine plays, too
But the physical tools are there. That says he can learn to get better, but doesn’t guarantee it (see: Dunston, Shawon).
Good defense can absolutely be learned. What good player doesn't have more errors when they're
young than when they’re veterans?
thanks for all of your input
Clearly, the overwheelming consensus is “no”
I guess I’ve never been a huge fan. While I understand defense can improve, it’s the nature of his errors, ie mental as opposed to physical that I hated in particular and which makes me question if he will stick as a ss.
I know I’ve been mentioning trading him for a while now, while his value is high even before the recent events. I guess his value is not so great anymore. Hopfully he will prove me wrong
by nickler on Jan 8, 2012 1:51 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Excuse me?
I guess his value is not so great anymore
Where have you gone, Kiko Calero. A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
really dumb indeed
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 8, 2012 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
If the allegations prove true
then this comment “I guess his value is not so great anymore” will be proven to be correct.
Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It's simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant.... It's not complicated. - George Costanza
Something else tp ponder on this Castro mess...
Will this “problem” linger into the season…or will it (somehow) go away fast? How much will this effect this kid’s mind set? Guilty or innocent…he’s still gonna hear about “it” on road trips…can he handle that? Could be a tough year for Castro…in more ways than one. It’s really a shame that the entire team/organization has to live with this mess, too. I hope it’s ALL worked out by the end of camp.
Coming Soon To A Stadium Near You!
A Rick-Hoy-Stein Production
"The Rebuild of 2012: And The Wait Goes On"
Yeah but only for a super ridiculous return
I would be like hey Friedmen I’ll give you Castro for Moore, Hellickson and Beckham. Something unreal.
Sadly
This is likely to end up in a settlement with confidentiality clauses. We may never know what really happened.
Even more sadly....
when a female is out drinking until 3a.m. and then goes to the apartment of a ballplayer—i said a ballplayer mind you…what do they think is on the agenda? A spirited round of parcheesi?
That doesn’t excuse any untoward behavior but to second Asul—i think in this case a public proclamation of what happened would have been better for Starlin—now he’ll have a cloud hanging over him.
"God, I always said I would never bother you about baseball, but if you could make this pain in my shoulder stop for ten minutes, I would really appreciate it."
Billy Chapel
I don't think the Cubs need to risk trading Castro
It could be a huge backfire.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
No one should be untouchable.
Unless we are competing for a World Series, no one on this roster should be considered untouchable. Of course, for a guy like Castro our asking should be so high that no team in its right mind would be willing to pay it. If for some reason some team was willing to pay it, we should make a move. Bottom line is that I don’t see him going anywhere.
Props for being one of the firsts in asking if Garza should be traded...
When many were writing down our Hendry-esque FA Christmas shopping lists.
If someone makes an offer you can’t refuse, trade Castro, now more than ever. It would have to be an incredible haul, though, since Castro is the centerpiece of the franchise.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Jan 9, 2012 10:11 PM CST reply actions
From what we've seen from TheoJed,
…this crew doesn’t deal from a position of weakness.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
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