How Not To Un-Retire A Number And Other MLBullets
The latest from around MLB as players shake off the chocolate candy hangover or the pain of Valentine's Day rejection (bah - who's going to reject a pro ballplayer? Even Willie McGee found someone.) ...
- What was supposed to be a nice story about Logan Morrison honoring his father has turned into a big of PR black eye for the Miami Marlins. The outfielder, who sports number 20, requested that he be permitted to wear number 5 in honor of his deceased father (who was a big George Brett fan). The number had previously been retired by the Marlins, as a way of memorializing the team's first president, Carl Barger, who served in that post from July 8, 1991 until his death in December of the following year. The Marlins apparently thought Barger's family was on board with the number un-retirement, but the family says no one ever contacted them about the change. Inadvertently failing to cross all of your T's and dot all of your I's rarely looks quite that ugly. (The Marlins finally reached out yesterday.)
Brett Taylor is a Contributor at Bleed Cubbie Blue, and is the Lead Writer at Bleacher Nation.
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The Angels have retired #26 for Gene Autry, their first owner.
Personally, I think once a number is retired (no matter who it’s for), it should stay retired. That’s kind of the point of doing it.
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by Al Yellon on Feb 15, 2012 7:44 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
It kind of sounds like
They were thinking, “well, we’re kind of a different franchise now, being the ‘Miami’ Marlins, so maybe it’ll be ok.”
Just wasn’t very well-thought-out or well-executed.
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by Brett Taylor on Feb 15, 2012 7:53 AM CST up reply actions
They're not a "different franchise".
They changed the city name. They moved 14 miles down I-95 in the same market.
The Nationals have retired numbers. They are all Expos retired numbers that the franchise continues to honor. That’s how it should be done.
One more reason that the Marlins are completely reprehensible.
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Like I said
Not well-thought-out.
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by Brett Taylor on Feb 15, 2012 10:12 AM CST up reply actions
The Nationals didn't honor the retired Expos numbers until last season.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
Nevertheless, they are doing it now.
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The over-the-top pursuit or assignment of baseball honorifics create these embarrassing situations...
…especially now that most knowledgeable fans understand there is a difference between first-ballot Hall of Fame members, eventual BBWAA enshrinees, and those elected by any of the Veterans Committees.
Now, some number retirements and statuary inevitably have become ways of circumventing BBWAA verdicts by either elevating the status of players who fell short of first-ballot election, or those who have been left out of the Hall altogether.
As is evident in the commotion over Marlins #5, these special awards also have been used to conflate the roles of baseball execs with men who actually played the game. For example, get a load of that Steinbrenner Memorial that towers over Ruth, Gehrig, et al, in Monument Park at the new Yankee Stadium. Perhaps a number also has been retired in George’s honor.
I realize the circumstances that surrounded the Barger number retirement were unique, in that the Marlins had not yet played a game before he died. Perhaps in the emotional wake of his passing, his family and associates didn’t really understand that number retirements should be reserved for field personnel who actually wore the number.
At least with the news stories surrounding the Carl Barger un-retirement, more fans now know who he was, that he admired Joe DiMaggio, that he once also owned the Pirates, and that he was a highly-successful attorney as well as a billiards prodigy who at the age of eight could whip Jim Tobin at 8-ball.
Also, it’s nice to know that portions of the Marlins spring training complex now bear Barger’s name, a far more visible honor than some obscure jersey retirement related to Joe D.
"Started hummin' a song from 1962..." – Bob Seger
"The past is never dead. It's not even past." – Faulkner
by ernaga on Feb 15, 2012 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I read this and had a nightmare about if the cubs did it.
Not that they ever would, just putting myself in that frame of mind though, i’d be horrified, distraught, inexcusable.
~Ronald Reagan has held the two most demeaning jobs in the country; President of the United States and radio broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs~ George F. Will
by unretrofied93 on Feb 15, 2012 9:12 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed.
I think it’s rude and nervy of a player to even think of asking something like this. Can’t he honor his father some other way?
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by katie casey on Feb 15, 2012 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly.
It’s the same thing Omar Vizquel did when he asked Luis Aparicio if he (Vizquel) could have Aparicio’s #11 with the White Sox.
What was Aparicio going to do, be rude and say no? Of course, he was gracious and said OK.
The point is, the question should never be asked. Retired numbers should stay retired. That’s kind of the point.
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Perhaps the exception being if you pull a Michael Jordan
Special circumstance though – very few sports players warrant an immediate retirement of their number like he did.
And for Jordan...
… he took his own number back.
Same thing would have happened if Ryne Sandberg had been named Cubs manager. Of course he would have worn #23 — but it was HIS NUMBER. That’s part of the point — no one else wears it.
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Actually, Joe DiMaggio....
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
"We have the Cannon, the Bucket, the Little Caesar's Bowl trophies, and I'm pretty sure the Nation's Best Kick-Off Team Trophy as well to put in our trophy case" --Purdue Coach Danny Hope
by carmen_fanzone on Feb 15, 2012 8:32 AM CST up reply actions
Just goes to show how bad the Marlins
The Stat Pack
by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT
by Madison Cub Fan on Feb 15, 2012 8:58 AM CST reply actions
Interesting that you posted about this today.
Did anybody listen to Len on the Score yesterday? They were discussing the possibility of retiring Kerry’s number, and Len was in favor of doing so. I see Len’s argument, but I disagree.
17'$ h4pp3n1n9!?!?!?
I'm a big Kerry Wood fan.
But retire his number? No way.
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by Al Yellon on Feb 15, 2012 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Right - Kerry deserved what he already got
which is the 20 (ks) flag that flies on the roof
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
My gut reaction is to agree.
I respect the heck out of Woody and am glad he’s back and all that. But he just hasn’t done quite enough on the pitcher’s mound for the Cubs to justify retiring his number.
"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach
Which former Cubs player (or current) is the next likely candidate to have their number retired?
Should Mark Grace’s #17 be retired?
How about Sammy Sosa’s #21?
Is Aramis Ramirez (#16) or Derrek Lee (#25) out of the question?
What about Milton Bradley’s #21? Just kidding.
I think the Cubs should go back to the Cubs’ golden era when they were winning pennant after pennant and retire some numbers from that era. Even some of the players that played before jersey numbers were adopted into the game, should be retired.
Guys like Cap Aanson, Frank Chance, Johnny Evers, Joe Tinker, Mordecai Brown, Jimmy Ryan. Then there’s with jersey numbers like Gabby Harnett’s #9 (or #2), take your pick with Phil Cavarretta’s #43, 23, 3, or 44. Stan Hack’s #6, Andy Pafko’s #48, Billy Herman’s #2 or 4, Charlie Root’s #17, Kiki Cuyler’s #3.
I’m sure I’ve left someone off the list, but there are no Cubs jersey’s retired who played before the Ernie Banks era, which began in 1953. It’s time to start honoring the Cubs legends that played pre-1953, IMO.
Jack Brickhouse: "Hey! Hey!" Harry Caray: "Holy Cow!"
Vince Lloyd: "The Chicago Cubs are on the Air!" Len Kasper: "Oh Baby!!!!"
Ron Santo: "YES!" "All Right! Let's do it!" "Ohhh Nooooo!" "Gee Whiz! Come on!" AND... "This Is The Year!"
by #1 iowan cubs fan on Feb 15, 2012 7:41 PM CST up reply actions
They should retire #21 just to make sure that never happens again....
And don’t forget Hack Wilson on your old timer’s list. Only spent 6 years in Chicago, drank like a fish, but his first 5 years rank among the best hitting seasons in all of Cubs history. His worst OPS in those 5 years was .944.
#21 and Hack Wilson
I think MLB is considering retiring #21 in respect for Roberto Clemente and his role in latin development in baseball.
I figured I left someone off my old timer’s list. Yeah, I also think Hack Wilson is a good candidate for a retired jersey, even though he never had a jersey number with the Cubs.
Jack Brickhouse: "Hey! Hey!" Harry Caray: "Holy Cow!"
Vince Lloyd: "The Chicago Cubs are on the Air!" Len Kasper: "Oh Baby!!!!"
Ron Santo: "YES!" "All Right! Let's do it!" "Ohhh Nooooo!" "Gee Whiz! Come on!" AND... "This Is The Year!"
by #1 iowan cubs fan on Feb 15, 2012 11:24 PM CST up reply actions
When did the retired numbers craze get out-of-hand?
Maybe when Reinsdorf retired the Sox’ #3 more than a decade before Harold Baines stopped playing.
If Bud Selig plans to order any more universal retirements, the next certainly should be #3 for the man who saved baseball – Dale Murphy.
"Started hummin' a song from 1962..." – Bob Seger
"The past is never dead. It's not even past." – Faulkner
the man who saved baseball – Dale Murphy.
?
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Strike that, and retire #3 for the Bambino, whose number should have been the first MLB-wide retirement.
I threw Murphy’s name in there not only as a joke that fell flat, but also as the name of a player whose accomplishments typify those of many who have had their numbers retired in recent years.
"Started hummin' a song from 1962..." – Bob Seger
"The past is never dead. It's not even past." – Faulkner
I think you're overstating it.
Most teams are retiring numbers of Hall of Famers or at least, legitimate stars in their organizations.
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Hm.
Are you suggesting that Dale Murphy was not a legitimate star in the Braves organization? He was their best player by a wide margin for an extended stretch, he was arguably the best player in baseball over a 2-3 year stretch in the early 80’s, and he was widely regarded as a really great guy.
Murphy may not end up in the Hall of Fame, but he deserves to be in the discussion. As for the Braves organization, Dale Murphy was the Braves for much of the 80’s. If you feel like you absolutely have to retire jerseys, then Dale Murphy is the kind of guy you should be looking for.
Maybe.
To me, Murphy’s not a Hall of Famer. He was a dominant player for about seven seasons. That’s not enough to retire a number, IMO.
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Hall of Fame? Maybe. There’s room to support either side of that one.
Retired jersey? Without a doubt.
To the Braves, Dale Murphy is Ron Santo. He’s Ryne Sandberg. He’s Ernie Banks. He’s the guy who was the best player on his team for a long time, and didn’t take it for granted. In the 80’s, Atlanta’s team was “Dale Murphy and the Braves.” It’s not even debatable.
But a team retiring a number is not really about the HOF
It’s about. the player being historically important to the team. A lilttle like the Cubs retiring Santo’s #10 when he was not in the HOF. I’m a Denver Broncos fan, and there are guys on the “Ring of Fame” who will never make the pro football HOF, but are there for their importance in Denver. Conversely, a guy like Andre Dawson who put up a HOF career while playing for several teams may not have a number retired anywhere.
But retiring numbers for team executives and owners is just dumb. Give them statue, put their names up in the stadium, but since they never wore a number there shouldn’t be one retired for them.
You are probably right about executives, etc.
However, once it’s done, it should stay done.
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Agreed completely on some of the pre-1945 players.
The Giants have “retired” some jerseys of people from the pre-uniform-number era — Christy Mathewson, John McGraw.
The Cubs should do the same at least for Mordecai Brown and Frank Chance.
Of players from the era after uniform numbers, I would suggest:
- for Gabby Hartnett, #4 for Billy Herman, #6 for Stan Hack and #44 for Phil Cavarretta. Let’s not go overboard. That’s two Hall of Famers, and two other longtime Cubs who played for several World Series teams and did get some Hall consideration.
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Cripes.
Forgot that you can’t put a # at the beginning of a line — that should be #2 for Gabby Hartnett.
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Going Overboard
Can you imagine both foul poles with retired jersey flags going all the way down to at the “Hey! Hey!” screen.
I think that whenever the Cubs open the “Triangle Building”, they should retire some old-timer jersey numbers and display them in a “Cubs Hall of Fame Museum” or something to that nature. And if that does happen, it should be displayed as a Cubs Jersey Flag that would have been put on the foul pole. But with the limited space on the pole’s, it is put in the Cubs HOF Museum.
Jack Brickhouse: "Hey! Hey!" Harry Caray: "Holy Cow!"
Vince Lloyd: "The Chicago Cubs are on the Air!" Len Kasper: "Oh Baby!!!!"
Ron Santo: "YES!" "All Right! Let's do it!" "Ohhh Nooooo!" "Gee Whiz! Come on!" AND... "This Is The Year!"
by #1 iowan cubs fan on Feb 16, 2012 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Geez I should proof read my comments before I post them:
going all the way down to at the “Hey! Hey!” screen.
I originally typed something different there and didn’t erase everything when I changed it. And there’s supposed to be a question mark at the end. So here’s what I meant to say:
going all the way down to the “Hey! Hey!” screens?
Thank you very much.
Jack Brickhouse: "Hey! Hey!" Harry Caray: "Holy Cow!"
Vince Lloyd: "The Chicago Cubs are on the Air!" Len Kasper: "Oh Baby!!!!"
Ron Santo: "YES!" "All Right! Let's do it!" "Ohhh Nooooo!" "Gee Whiz! Come on!" AND... "This Is The Year!"
by #1 iowan cubs fan on Feb 16, 2012 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
I wouldnt mind it if they did
The question has to be asked why does an organization retire a players number? Is tenure with the team. Is it greatness. Does the person die. Those are three reasons and Kerry has 1 and a half, he has tenure with the team and has showed some greatness with the Cubs.
One person that has two of the three is Sammy Sosa. I wouldn’t mind seeing his number retired but if it is not I wouldn’t argue.
by lshaffer_69 on Feb 15, 2012 10:02 AM CST up reply actions
Am I mistaken
Don’t the cubs have a twenty flag in honor of his twenty strikeout game. I think that should be plenty to honor Kerry. Maybe a gold watch and a job offer.
Marilyn Monroe "yogi your a pretty cool guy"
Berra " Marilyn you ain't so hot yourself"!
I agree with this.
Yes, they do have such a flag. That’s sufficient.
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by Al Yellon on Feb 15, 2012 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm a big fan don't get me wrong
But retired #’s should be for greatness not goodness, and loyalty.
Marilyn Monroe "yogi your a pretty cool guy"
Berra " Marilyn you ain't so hot yourself"!
"Even Willie McGee found someone"
Bahahaha! Undisputed spot on the All-Ugly team for sure. Thanks for the laugh this morning!
"I showed him the cheese then punched him out with the yakker." -- Eck
you can add Sal Bando and Jesse Orosco to that list.
Oh, and Andy Etchebarren’s eyebrows as well.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
He looks like he got hit by an ugly stick
swung by willie McGee!
Marilyn Monroe "yogi your a pretty cool guy"
Berra " Marilyn you ain't so hot yourself"!
Retiring a number for a non-player
This seems kind of weird to me. What’s the point of retiring a number for someone who didn’t wear it?
It makes more sense to “retire” a microphone icon, a name, initials, a date, or some other symbol, as many other franchises have done. See this Wikipedia link for specific examples.
The Angels retired #26 for Gene Autry.
The idea was that he was the “26th man” on the team.
Should they unretire that? Maybe a non-uniform-number honor would be better for non-uniformed people, but IMO once it’s done it should stay done.
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I don't disagree
I wasn’t suggesting that numbers be unretired, necessarily. I was just saying I think it’s weird to retire a number for someone who never wore it. What’s done is done, even if it shouldn’t have been done.
There are certain people
like say Branch Rickey who deserve such an honor.
Marilyn Monroe "yogi your a pretty cool guy"
Berra " Marilyn you ain't so hot yourself"!
They already retired a number for Rickey - 42.....
You can’t think of Robinson without remembering Rickey.
Try the retired number quiz...
…on Sporcle’s MLB section. There is an example of an owner (Gussie Busch-number 85), a coach (Jimmie Reese-number 50), and a group (The Fans in Cleveland-number 455) having numbers retired.
I’m picking my number right now.
Not Impressed With the MLB articles!!
I have always come to this site to read up on news about the Cubs! I’m not interested in stories about the Pirates or Marlins… that can be found on MLBTR’s…. I don’t believe these
stories reflect the spirit of this website. This is just my opinion and not a strike against the author of said stories. I will probably continue using this site but will refrain from reading further posts. Have a nice day… I’m trying to have a nice day.
---

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry
by Hammer on Feb 15, 2012 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I prefer this to 10 fanposts talking about the same things and marked as "OT"....
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
"We have the Cannon, the Bucket, the Little Caesar's Bowl trophies, and I'm pretty sure the Nation's Best Kick-Off Team Trophy as well to put in our trophy case" --Purdue Coach Danny Hope
by carmen_fanzone on Feb 15, 2012 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
Let's face it – now that Hendry and Q have been replaced by a competent management team...
…there are many fewer Cubs-only storylines to post, or contentious threads to develop. Of course that’ll change if the Cubs are 30-51 at midseason.
"Started hummin' a song from 1962..." – Bob Seger
"The past is never dead. It's not even past." – Faulkner
coincidentally 5 is the number of championships the marlins will win in the next 5 seasons
Just wee-un.
by jesus christos on Feb 15, 2012 4:08 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I'll take the under
If you’re offering.
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by Brett Taylor on Feb 15, 2012 4:22 PM CST up reply actions
Logan Morrison's ego is so huge he'd ask for #42
So glad we didn’t pick him up in the Zambrano trade
I never blame myself when I'm not hitting. I just blame the bat and if it keeps up, I change bats. After all, if I know it isn't my fault that I'm not hitting, how can I get mad at myself?
- Yogi Berra
by LongLiveHarryCaray on Feb 15, 2012 9:05 PM CST via mobile reply actions
GO MARLINS
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Feb 15, 2012 10:46 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Yup
Such a crappy team that it has managed to win two World Series, plus one of their former coaches and current manager managed the White Sox to a World Series. Meanwhile our team hasn’t been to the World Series since 1945 and hasn’t won a World Series since 1908. What the hell do we have to be so smug about?
The Yankees also have Rafael Soriano...
unless he’d be foolish enough to enact one of his out clauses. It’s still Rivera, Robertson and Soriano, et al., over Kimbrel and Venters for me. My dark horse is the Red Sox with Bailey, Melancon and Bard, if he doesn’t stick as a starter.
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Just North of Wrigley Field
The Nationals have an overall lights-out bullpen as well.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Wow Al... you really hate the Marlins
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
"Hate"?
No. I just think they’re ridiculous.
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by Al Yellon on Feb 16, 2012 7:59 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I like these updates from Brett...
Nice addition to BCB, Al.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
Wait?
Have they retired Crane Kenney’s jersey yet? This should be a priority.
preferably with him in it
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Feb 16, 2012 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

























