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Cubs have $0 committed past 2015



I think I read this on MLBTraderumors or somewhere. I want to say that's good because we don't risk having any has-been superstars attempting to play left, but I'd like to see us commit long-term to Castro or Rizzo (if he develops properly), or even Soler. I believe the article said something like we are one of 9 teams with nothing committed, the others I believe were the O's, Mariners, Mets, Padres, Giants, Indians, and Astros, not exactly the class of the league. Opinions?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Glass half empty or half full?

The headline should be the Cubs have no money committed past 2014. Soriano’s will be over after 2014.

As for opinions, it depends on how you look at it. Based on many of the bad contracts the Cubs have had lately, it is nice to be out from them.

Conversely, it also says that the Cubs don’t have many players in their prime that they should lock up. Castro is the only one who should be signed long-term.

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Feb 18, 2012 6:52 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

My glass just tipped over and made an ugly stain.

It is now being cleaned. These guys I hired better have some industrial strength cleaner. Then I will fill the glass back up to the brim with hopes of never making a mess like that again.

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by katie casey on Feb 18, 2012 8:06 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

and put it on an

uneven table, no?

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Feb 18, 2012 8:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Half Full

There is always another shiny new free agent that can be signed in the next off-season. Or the next, or the one after that.

"Just shut up and play" - Matt Garza
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is an option." - Dale Sveum

by RiskyBusiness on Feb 18, 2012 2:52 PM CST up reply actions  

half full as this allows them the financial flexibility to remake the team

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Feb 19, 2012 8:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Thats crazy

I also heard on PTI now that Wakefield is retired, the active leader in wins is Halladay, making it the first time since 1897 that the active leader in wins has less than 200

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 18, 2012 9:06 AM CST reply actions  

Assuming Moyer doesn't make his comeback.

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Feb 18, 2012 9:20 AM CST up reply actions  

yeah they mentioned that too

But it really speaks to hohttp://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2012/2/18/2807673/cubs-have-0-committed-past-2015#w pitching has changed over the past 115 years..ha

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 18, 2012 11:05 AM CST up reply actions  

not sure what happened there

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 18, 2012 11:05 AM CST up reply actions  

I also believe there is no active starter with more than 200 losses

glavine had 203 iirc.

Marilyn Monroe "yogi your a pretty cool guy"
Berra " Marilyn you ain't so hot yourself"!

by Notsnud on Feb 21, 2012 11:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Leading active pitcher in losses

… Livan Hernandez, 176.

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by Al Yellon on Feb 22, 2012 7:04 AM CST up reply actions  

if you want to see salary commitments and not just go by what you heard

a good link is Cot’s Baseball Contracts

and we have none, but that is not taking into consideration those who are arb eligible that year, here is a breakdown of 2011 through 12017

Condoms prevent minivans

by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 18, 2012 9:53 AM CST reply actions  

here is a breakdown of 2011 through 12017

I hope the Cubs win the World Series before 12017.

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by Al Yellon on Feb 18, 2012 10:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Good news...

Soriano’s contract does not run through 12017. Some days it just seems like it.

"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."

by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST

by fsuapollo on Feb 18, 2012 10:59 AM CST up reply actions  

But the Mets will still be paying Bobby Bonilla.

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by Steven Schweickert on Feb 21, 2012 8:07 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

We do actually have a commitment past 2014

And that’s to Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer. They’ll be under contract and getting paid. Now admittedly that’s not what everyone things of when one discusses such things, but the money will all be coming from the same place.

by Josh Timmers on Feb 19, 2012 2:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Very good point

but I don’t see Theo or Jed hitting .300 with 50 homers anytime soon

"I do believe you can be honest and upfront about the fact that a certain organization hasn’t gotten the job done and hasn’t won a World Series in a long time. That’s the approach we took in Boston. It wasn’t a curse, it’s just that we hadn’t gotten the job done."- Theo Epstein

by Killin_me_smallzz on Feb 19, 2012 2:12 AM CST up reply actions  

And

… the financial commitment to both is (relatively) small.

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by Al Yellon on Feb 19, 2012 7:46 AM CST up reply actions  

We've all seen Back To The Future 2...

Everyone knows the Cubs will win the World Series in 12015.

Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!

by DKT on Feb 18, 2012 11:21 AM CST reply actions  

2015 please.

I don’t think I can make it to 12015.

Winter, slumbering in the open air, wears on its smiling face a dream... of spring. -Phil Connors

by katie casey on Feb 18, 2012 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Special 2015 compensation

Astros will move back to the NL for one season, with the Miami moving to the AL , hover skate boards will become all the rage along with automatic fitted jackets. Who knows it could happen.

by jpeters407 on Feb 18, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Works for me.

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by Al Yellon on Feb 18, 2012 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

those hover boards suck

they don’t even work on water

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Feb 18, 2012 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

NO POWER!!

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Feb 18, 2012 4:14 PM CST up reply actions  

The Mets

are committed to Bobby Bonilla through 2035.

"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Feb 18, 2012 2:44 PM CST reply actions  

Angels to Pujols through 2032

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Feb 18, 2012 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

but cost

like 250 million more

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Feb 18, 2012 4:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Well wasn't that the point that Theo/Jed put out there when they came in?

Bring in younger players, rebuild the farm system, etc. Hey if Rizzo and Castro pan out well, they’ll get their extensions, but for now, why would we sign someone young for more than three or four years? The only reason you would put out a huge contract like that is for someone like Pujols. And we’ve already done that once with Soriano, look how well that turned out…

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by bmasson11 on Feb 19, 2012 1:20 AM CST reply actions  

Yes it was the point

but I’m glad we didn’t do anything totally stupid this off-season, I’m too used to Hendry signing people to contracts that are just plain stupid. Ideally I would LOVE to see Starlin hit like he did in 2011 and develop 15-20 HR power and I’d love to see Rizzo just be a beast. Soriano’s contract is a joke, I don’t see how a 36 year old Alfonso Soriano could ever be worth $54 million.

"I do believe you can be honest and upfront about the fact that a certain organization hasn’t gotten the job done and hasn’t won a World Series in a long time. That’s the approach we took in Boston. It wasn’t a curse, it’s just that we hadn’t gotten the job done."- Theo Epstein

by Killin_me_smallzz on Feb 19, 2012 2:22 AM CST up reply actions  

36 year old Soriano isn't worth close to that much today

But a few years back he probably was, and then came the landslide… He’ll be lucky if he sees more than 3-5 mil. a year after this contract is up

UMD Bulldogs: 2011 NCAA DI Men's Hockey Nat'l Champions; 2008 & 2010 NCAA DII Football Nat'l Champions

by bmasson11 on Feb 19, 2012 2:24 PM CST up reply actions  

My guess is that Soriano retires after his current contract is up.

He’ll be 39 in the offseason after it ends. That’s pretty much when a lot of guys like that call it quits (like Mike Cameron just did today).

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by Al Yellon on Feb 19, 2012 2:48 PM CST up reply actions  

I think he might take a DH position on a contender

I don’t know, I think he won a WS with the Yanks, right?

UMD Bulldogs: 2011 NCAA DI Men's Hockey Nat'l Champions; 2008 & 2010 NCAA DII Football Nat'l Champions

by bmasson11 on Feb 19, 2012 10:56 PM CST up reply actions  

No, he didn't win a Series with the Yanks.

He was a GD disaster in the playoffs for the Yanks. His career playoff stats are among the worst in history, and hitting a buck eighty in 8 or so playoff Series for NYY will do that. Soriano’s arrival coincides with the Yankees’ title drought in the 2000’s.

Hitting like that in the playoffs will also get you run out of town, which also happened. That’s also why the Yanks arent interested in Soriano AT ALL.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Feb 20, 2012 9:55 PM CST up reply actions  

he won two with the yankees according to wikipedia

although his article does say that he’s been with the cards with 2007…

Just wee-un.

by jesus christos on Feb 20, 2012 10:11 PM CST up reply actions  

He was a 1999 and 2000 September call up, but wasn't on the 25 man or postseason rosters either year.

He was a rookie in 2001, when they lost to brenly’s dbacks.

He was also on the 2003 Series losing Yankees.

So he won two pennants with NYY, and lost 2 Series.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Feb 20, 2012 10:19 PM CST up reply actions  

lol

It says he won the world series in 2011. Did I go into cryogenic sleep and miss the Cubs win the World Series?

Supporter of Carlos Austin Boozer, and I don't want to see Dwight Howard in a Bulls uniform. Call me crazy.

by wrigleyrocker12 on Feb 20, 2012 11:02 PM CST up reply actions  

What?

I understand your hatred but he is far from the worst in history.

He had several bad series but he also 6 for 15 in 2001 ALCS against Seattle and 7 for 19 in 2003 against Minnesota in the ALDS. He was much worse for the Cubs than for the Yankees. His WS numbers are .234 / .265 / .362. Not great but far from the worst in baseball history and well above .180 as you ranted.

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Feb 21, 2012 8:31 AM CST up reply actions  

For his career, in 186 playoff plate appearances, he's posted a .213/.263/.299 line.

Can you find me another player in MLB history who has that many playoff at-bats, with a .563 OPS?

I can’t.

The guy has been an epic disaster in the playoffs during his career.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Feb 21, 2012 4:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Well that includes the Cubs numbers.

You said for the Yankees. Including the Cubs he is probably epic bad. Considering the fact that teams usually face better pitchers in the playoffs, it isn’t a complete surprise since they are the ones that can eat him up.

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Feb 21, 2012 5:08 PM CST up reply actions  

He was also awful for the Yankees.

Note that I originally said “his career playoff numbers are among the worst in history” – which, of course, would include Sori’s horrific flops as a Cub for 2 playoff series.

But his Yankees failures are also terrible. Especially when, as you’ve noted, almost all of his meager, meager output came in a couple of good games in 2001 and 2003.

The guy will go down in history as one of the worst, if not THE worst, playoff performers in history. If there were such a thing as “playoff WAR”, he would certainly be in negative territory- especially given his hackery in the field, and he may be the single lowest all-time player for “playoff wins against replacement”.

Who else has logged 44 playoff games worth of .563 OPS?!

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Feb 22, 2012 12:54 AM CST up reply actions  

there should be a playoff WAR

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Feb 22, 2012 4:28 AM CST up reply actions  

There's probably postseason WPA.

I haven’t done much with that particular stat, personally.

"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach

by daver on Feb 22, 2012 9:37 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't think that headline is totally true

If my calculations are correct, the Cubs will have a minimum commitment of $11,250,000 (based on $450,000 owed each player as a minimum salary) in either 2015 or 2016. Of course, who knows what the minimum will be in 2016 (it will probably be well beyond that per player by then).

I’m guessing you were probably referring to big contracts instead.

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by CubFanSince1970 on Feb 20, 2012 11:26 AM CST reply actions  

Technically that's not committed.

We’re “committed” to pay Soriano money in 2014, and that’s our longest commitment to any player as of right now. Nobody else is signed for 2015, in other words.

by Dcr18 on Feb 20, 2012 11:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, but I see his point.

A 25-man roster will have to be fielded every year. It will cost a minimum of 25x whatever the minimum salary is that year.

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by Al Yellon on Feb 20, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Of course, I see what he's saying.

But no salary is committed to any single player, and I believe Marmo, Dejesus,l and Soriano are the only two players under contract already for 2013, and Maholm depending on the option.

by Dcr18 on Feb 20, 2012 12:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Wood has a 2013 option.

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by Al Yellon on Feb 20, 2012 12:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Hamels or Cain would be much better than Greinke

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Feb 26, 2012 8:56 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd say they're all pretty similar.

Greinke is the best when he’s on his game, but the most inconsistent of the three. It all depends on the price tag, and I’ve heard Hamels has extremely high demands.

by Dcr18 on Feb 26, 2012 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Hamels and Cain are workhorses

Greinke is not

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Feb 26, 2012 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Compared to Hamels and Cain,

Greinke is no workhorse. Plus, Cain and Hamels are not only more durable, they are better.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Feb 26, 2012 10:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Why do you think they're better?

Here are their weighted averages over the past three years, (bolded stats indicate that they have the best number amongst the three):

Cain: 221 IP | 2.97 ERA | 3.48 FIP | 3.98 xFIP
Hamels: 206 IP | 3.36 ERA | 3.47 FIP | 3.30 xFIP
Greinke: 207 IP | 3.33 ERA | 2.87 FIP | 3.12 xFIP

It’s very likely that Cain has such a stellar ERA because of his home park. Over the past three years, ATT Park has been the most pitcher-friendly amongst the parks that these pitchers have called home. Amongst the three, Greinke has actually pitched in the most difficult parks in each of the past three years.

lookingdeadred – While I’m not saying that Greinke is the best option for the Cubs, (I’d have to do more research to figure that out), I am saying that the choice is not as clear as you make it out to be.

by Naveen Nallappa on Feb 27, 2012 12:03 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Not to mention that Greinke might slide a little more under the radar than guys like Cain and Hamels

While Hamels will be looking for 22-24 million per year, you might be able to sneak Greinke onto the team for 18-20 million per year.

by bdlugz on Feb 27, 2012 10:42 AM CST up reply actions  

he slides under the radar because he spends too much time out of action

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Feb 28, 2012 7:46 AM CST up reply actions  

He threw over 200 innings three years in a row.

Missing one month in four years is pretty common for about every single pitcher.

by Dcr18 on Feb 28, 2012 8:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Exactly... his "out of action" year still resulted in over 180 innings.

If we get 207-220 innings a year for 3-4 years and then one year of 180, I’m just fine with that if it comes with a low 3 ERA, FIP and xFIP.

by bdlugz on Feb 28, 2012 9:29 AM CST up reply actions  

much more likely to get those kind of IPs from Cain or Hamels

the odds are much higher Greinke will break down

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Mar 1, 2012 7:45 AM CST up reply actions  

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